Mini 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Game Over

[kuror0]

I'm a sloth I love woods so
VOTE: woods

btw weekend just started for me so expect pretty low participation till monday. The good thing is I don't really care where we go as I don't know the exact lore and I doubt it is so strict but I do like woods as an option.

[kuror0]

Ok. some thoughts after my catch up. Jazzon too many assumptions at this point are not useful for town it is good to have your own idea but being locked on them with so many things being uncertain doesn't help.

I think there is a chance some items may be more useful or unlock an ability for a certain role but I doubt every item we get is designed like that.

Now the thing is who we give the item. The best option would be for someone we trust but at this point it is really hard to have a strong town read or anything close imo and most of us would want to get the item just because it is nice to explore the mechanics of the game and stuff. For now I volunteer as a guinea pig to get the item and we can agree to openly say if there is a role specific restriction or that kind of stuff so we can make more informed decision on the objects we get later in the game. That's most of my ideas at this point.

[kuror0]

Ok. some thoughts after my catch up. Jazzon too many assumptions at this point are not useful for town it is good to have your own idea but being locked on them with so many things being uncertain doesn't help.

I think there is a chance some items may be more useful or unlock an ability for a certain role but I doubt every item we get is designed like that.

Now the thing is who we give the item. The best option would be for someone we trust but at this point it is really hard to have a strong town read or anything close imo and most of us would want to get the item just because it is nice to explore the mechanics of the game and stuff. For now I volunteer as a guinea pig to get the item and we can agree to openly say if there is a role specific restriction or that kind of stuff so we can make more informed decision on the objects we get later in the game. That's most of my ideas at this point.

Ok, but this item in particular would -definitely- be the one to have special effects for a class. I take it he's played Curse of Strahd and got it, so he knows. The problem is, we don't want the person shouting out their damn class, for fairly obvious reasons.

I haven't played Curse of Stranhd. I'm familiar with D&D and have played a couple of times but I got no more knowledge than the basics. And I never said the person should shout his class, I just said that if we get a majority agreeing for this first item the person who gets it could say if it has special rules. Let's say X person gets the item then it can say openly stuff that helps us take better decisions in the future items like: "This item gives a special ability to a dragonborn(instead of a race it would be a class ofc)" or "There is no special restrictions on this item". It wouldn't have to disclose the specific ability or item main ability or his own class it just informs us if all this theory can help us in the actual game or not. It would hinder D1 item but I think it would help us on the long run to take better choices. That's my idea to have a better understanding of the repercussion of our choices in this game.

[kuror0]

You think they will be told "If you are X class, this happens" if they aren't X class?

Mmm due to the nature of the game it would make sense to me that the abilitys are listed even if it has class restriction. Items are recycled when someone dies after all. Plus as I said I think there is a chance some of them come with a restriction but I highly doubt there are many like that (if any).

[kuror0]

That's why I'm interested in getting as much info as possible with the D1 item. If we know it is written it is a win for us and we can work better later if it isn't then we keep going assuming there is no special requirements but a slight chance either not every item has a special requirement or it is a hidden one. That's at least my mindset at this point.

Also why Pine to get the item Sly?

P-edit:
ninjaed by Dunn :< why am I such a slow typer everytime.

I would like to get the item as I said I'm curious about the game mechanics and I would provide as much info I could for the benefit of town but I know at this point is hard to trust someone else as I know I don't.

[kuror0]

Now he is voting for himself, so he does want it now. Still it is a weird reason to give the item to someone but if it is what most want can't be helped.

But what does everyone else thinks about my idea agree/disagree what are your thoughts about that etc?

[kuror0]

I'd be fine with Pine, Jason, myself, or maybe Dreal. Dreal, I think, is close to the right match but not quite. I don't like Kuror's "I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told, trust me to tell you what it says" bit. I was in Undertale mafia, were some items had hidden benefits if certain people got them, and those benefits were kept secret until the person got them, when it was then revealed to said person.

You are picking just certain parts of what I've said. first:

"I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told" compare to this.

Mmm due to the nature of the game it would make sense to me that the abilitys are listed even if it has class restriction. Items are recycled when someone dies after all. Plus as I said I think there is a chance some of them come with a restriction but I highly doubt there are many like that (if any).

(if any).[/quote]
and

That's why I'm interested in getting as much info as possible with the D1 item. If we know it is written it is a win for us and we can work better later if it isn't then we keep going assuming there is no special requirements but a slight chance either not every item has a special requirement or it is a hidden one. That's at least my mindset at this point.

When you say I said "I'll bet if there is anything special, we'll probably get told" is a long of way from what I originally said. So it is a misrep from your part. About the second part "trust me to tell you what it says". That's perfectly normal as I also said:

I would like to get the item as I said I'm curious about the game mechanics and I would provide as much info I could for the benefit of town but I know at this point is hard to trust someone else as I know I don't.

So bottom line, if you don't share my thinking or you just don't like me getting the item that's perfectly fine but I want to know as fast as possible how much does the lore information is useful in this mafia game(because remember we are playing mafia and not D&D so the lore info may be important to a certain point but is not a straight jacket and the mod could have designed this game however he pleased.). I appreciate the knowledge you have provided and your experience in a game where the items had secret benefits but that doesn't mean this game has the same rules.

pedit: again 2 ninja posts but I will delver how it was.

[kuror0]

agreeing with drealm that we should wait for everyone to have their input. Plus whether I get it or not, we have a vast majority being town aligned at this point, so I want us to get as much info early game about the game set up regarding the items to make better decisions the next days. That's why it is also important that people voice their opinions about my idea or share if they have any other idea about item treatment.

[kuror0]

about post 226 made by shaziro. You see that's a lot of info I didn't had so it would make sense it to be that way and makes your statements have more value. While I'm not thrilled by Pine claiming so early I see no reason not to believe his claim and I'm fine with him getting my vote and the item.

[kuror0]

Counterclaim could go poorly. As you said 2 other players would have to claim both classes in case he is lying to catch him. So for now I say we should trust him and see how things develop.

[kuror0]

Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af.

Which of the following is the right one?:
a) you haven't read everything that has been posted.
b) you are a very poor reader.
c) you are intentionally misrepresenting.

[kuror0]

UNVOTE: JasonWazza
VOTE: Pine

I don't think there is any point delaying this phase, as it's just making us waste time we could be discussing who to lynch, and any more information that is relevant to this getting out is not going to be helpful for town.

I disagree. For starters you could start discussing who to lynch, I don't remember any rule forbidding it. Then we got that every interaction, decision etc anyone makes can help solve the game later. Every little bit of info is useful for town and even when we are not discussing who to lynch you can get an idea of the mentality attitude small connections of a player which will help you develop better reads which is definitely not a waste of time. Plus we are still on weekend and some players haven't catch up it is better if they do before we move on.

[kuror0]

this isn't the St. Markovia thing, so the application to clerics/paladins is inaccurate? wtg pine!

I think he got the name wrong but the correct idea of the item? Need the lore connoisseur Shaziro to clarify.

[kuror0]

Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af.

Which of the following is the right one?:
a) you haven't read everything that has been posted.
b) you are a very poor reader.
c) you are intentionally misrepresenting.

d) none of the above

If it is none of the above why you stated that I wanted the power openly listed and I was rolefishing?

@kuror0: You've said a couple times that you'd like to get the item. Why aren't you concerned that you'll be NK'd if you get it? I don't particularly want it as it puts a target on the recipient's back...if they're town...

Mmm rolefishing much?

[kuror0]

I'm here. My vote so far will be going to pine. But I'm stretching it as much as possible because we have many people busy on weekend stuff and our day phase is shorter than usual. There are 7h 30m left when this post was made I will be voting in about 3 hours.

[kuror0]

Don't worry. rules say the one with most votes gets it. Even if it is not a complete majority. so even if it ends now pine will get it.
VOTE: Pine
Phase won't finish early unless we have 50%+1 votes on a player.

"This stage will end when we have a 50%+1 majority on a location or when the two days are up. If a 50%+1 majority is not reached at the 2 day deadline, whichever location got the most votes wins, with ties being settled with which received the last vote first. If no votes are recorded, mod will choose randomly."

This applies to locations and item assignation.

[kuror0]

catching up.

[kuror0]

Busy day at work sorry. So a bunch of small thoughts of what I remember.

I think that Pine's claim seems uncalled and way too convenient but we should hold for now.
Kuroi you should try to give your thoughts about what has happened and how you perceive other players instead of going full defensive and ignoring everything else.

Now I should be around and will try to remember some stuff I'm sure I left behind when I get a lil more time.

[kuror0]

I know but they got no follow up so you should ignore it. I want to know what you think of everything that has happened so far because you were sort of checking things out but never had the time or manage to say anything game related.

[kuror0]

There's not so much that I could judge so far. I don't know how it's alignment indicative if we want to go to the shops, the cemetery or anywhere else.

It is also NAI for me but you have plenty of things that can help you develop a read not just the place they wanted to go, that's more like a cheap excuse.

For example I didn't like how jasson throw shade on everyone who didn't pick cemetery with nothing but conjectures and assumptions. I don't like how some players have misrepresented points that have been explained thorough, I don't like something persivul said early but I can't remember what was right now but will go back later and check it to be sure. I also don't like how he only show show situations where Pine was scum to promote his lynch neglecting completely the town Pine mislynch consequences. Aff gotta run more in a while.

[kuror0]

Ok to continue my post. Persival just posted the Pine scum repercutions of lynch or no lynch, heavily influencing the opinion of other players.

If Pine is scum and we don't lynch him, then scum definitely have the item tonight.

If Pine is scum and we do lynch him, then there's a good chance he gives the item to town as wifom, since whomever he gives it to will be a suspect.

I shall complete with my thoughts.
If Pine is town and we don't lynch him, scum won't have the item tonight and we will force them to risk a kill attempt on him. Town still won't be sure about the abilitys of the item.

If Pine is town and we do lynch him, then we know the item ability is confirmed but the new recipient of the item is an unknown alignment because Pine wouldn't know if the person he choose to give the item is town or scum.

Well that's just what I got on my mind to weight the decision. I do find the claim Pine did contrived as I said before but I doubt a scum would go to those lengths just to get 1 item, feels like too much risk for some unknown reward. Also about Persival there is this:

Upon further thinking, if Pine can self heal, I don't want a vig wasting a shot on him.

Good point. Also, if he gives the item to someone suspicious and we do have a vig, the vig can target the recipient.

This lines up lynch/executions to everyone who gets the item which is just...

p-edit: I stated this post when the last post was number 516

[kuror0]

Do you have any town reads, or is pretty much everyone scummy? And if there are so many people you don't like, why aren't you voting somebody?

I will only vote when I feel confident someone is scum. I tend to retain my vote a lot. I have some town leans but that's as far as I get. It is too hard for me to get solid town reads as I'm way too paranoid and have never been able to find solid town reads early in the game, so I focus on situations that make me suspicious of people and follow them to determine if they are scum or not, that's my play style.

[kuror0]

I shall complete with my thoughts.
If Pine is town and we don't lynch him, scum won't have the item tonight and we will force them to risk a kill attempt on him.

He's already said that the item is unlikely to benefit him. Doesn't make much sense considering his claim, but that's what he said. So, no, scum won't be forced to target him, even if he is town. The item would sit unused by either side, which might not bother scum at all.

Town still won't be sure about the abilitys of the item.

So you think he's town but lying to us?

-I'm not sure if he is town or not but more importantly as long as he isn't confirmed I will have my doubts.

If Pine is town and we do lynch him, then we know the item ability is confirmed

How so? I don't recall that mod flips the item on death of the owner.

-If he flips town I would be inclined to believe he had no reason to lie about the item ability or other particular descriptions.

but the new recipient of the item is an unknown alignment because Pine wouldn't know if the person he choose to give the item is town or scum.

Item owners will always be of unknown alignment to townies.

That's why it bothers me that the item starts rolling from player to player. By tomorrow with some luck we will have 2 items and I think it is hard for scum to get their hands on both but if it starts moving from player to player it would be easier for scum to hold on them, that's what I think.

My thoughts/clarification on red. I know it is a bit complicated to follow as I'm still not sure what to believe about Pine situation but I know up to this point his lynch doesn't look like the most pro town thing to do considering the whole situation imo.

p-edit: 2 ninja posts will be ignored by this post.

[kuror0]

Sry I had to go to the hospital for an emergency will be catching up and stuff later after I get some sleep.

[kuror0]

huh. I actually have Drealmz as town.

Still torn about Pine I will ISO him and make my mind after some more sleep.

Someone said scum had Day talk? I don't remember seeing that on the rules.

Creature can you show me what you consider my fluff posting?

should we request a replace on BRantz? 10 days left for day phase.

[kuror0]

It's probably just because there's at least one wagon on scum, kuror hasn't posted content today and we need a replacement.

how is that a reason for the stalling of the game is that I didn't post today? Also have to ask why 1 wagon on scum would make the game stall, if there is no wagon on a scum the game would go faster? we will agree sooner to a lynch? I don't understand the correlation here.

I asked yesterday a couple of things and nothing got an answer. So I rechecked and scum does have day talk. Which means they can coordinate a lot their day stances etc and it is something to watch out for.

I haven't ISO'd pine yet. Still waiting for creature to answer my question.

Leaving that aside my reads are quite opposed to whats predominant around here. My heavier scum leans were jasson and Persivul. Both of them jumped on pine wagon which makes me feel insecure about it.

[kuror0]

huh you are right, sorry about that. Still let me re-check to know where I got that idea from.

[kuror0]

huh you are right, sorry about that. Still let me re-check to know where I got that idea from.

Probably from Pine himself. Jason hasn't voted him and was just asking questions, and Pine got very defensive.

Nop sorry. I know the ideas on the back on my head are from the thoughts I got when reading the thread and not because someone else said so. But you were quick to make your move. I'm re reading everything so wait for it before seeding ideas.

[kuror0]

Ok, a couple of things I remembered when re reading.

this is the context:

Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af.

Which of the following is the right one?:
a) you haven't read everything that has been posted.
b) you are a very poor reader.
c) you are intentionally misrepresenting.

d) none of the above

If it is none of the above why you stated that I wanted the power openly listed and I was rolefishing?

@kuror0: You've said a couple times that you'd like to get the item. Why aren't you concerned that you'll be NK'd if you get it? I don't particularly want it as it puts a target on the recipient's back...if they're town...

Mmm rolefishing much?

this is your answer:

If it is none of the above why you stated that I wanted the power openly listed and I was rolefishing?

Parts of 200, 204, 211. You put in some disclaimer language, but you're still fishing for info on the item.

Mmm rolefishing much?

Nope, it was a general comment. It's like in pick your power - sure, getting a high draft gets you a good power, but if you're town it also gets you killed.

So first, your HUGE initial misrepresentation of me. One thing is I did say I wanted general info about the rules of the item to get an idea, and remember at that point no one had the item so I said it as an idea and tried to get people to vote for it or against that. And another completely different idea is how you portrayed me. Which was literally "Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af." And what's even weirder is that I had already made the clarifications about what I wanted and what not. You even quoted the post where those clarifications were, yet you used those posts to call me scummy out of your own misrepresentation of me, Then we have the 2nd part which is just a loaded question. When you use "Why aren't you concerned that you'll be NK'd if you get it?" for the first part is setting a precedence that I was not concerned about being NKed and finish saying "it puts a target on the recipient's back...if they're town..." implying that like I wasn't worried I wasn't town. The other option was for me to say why I was or wasn't worried which would lead eventually to a role talk. Or what did you expect with your "general comment" or was it just a question that wasn't meant to mean anything and I shouldn't have addressed it?

So now I remember I hold those things heavily against you. You neglected info, intentionally misrepresented another player, used that to base your scum read on that player and did an overall set up to make it look bad. And I see no possible town motivation behind it.

[kuror0]

This was during the item assignation phase when we were really close to a deadline.

VOTE: Vedith

Wow down to 8 hours already?

VOTE: Vedith

Why you guys voted for vedith to get the item when we were so close to deadline I don't remember him saying anything special to get the tracktion and I'm pretty sure Pine had already soft-hard claimed, you both voted for vedith out of the blue with no context or justification so I ask now, why?

[kuror0]

You're really obsessing over something that wasn't a big deal to me. Have you noticed that I haven't voted you, and my few posts to you since then have been more conversational than accusational? However, your focus on defending rather than scum hunting (you haven't voted me, so that's how the above comes across), when you don't even have a vote, is making me think you're worth a closer look.

p-edit: this is about the previous post (obviously)

pointing out is not obsessing.
Why would I care if you are being conversational to me or accusational to review your actions. That phrase sounds like you are saying "oh no, look we are friends, don't inspect me".
Defending? You got it wrong there. I'm not defending anything but I do use every time someone goes after me to look at their intentions and decide if they are town or scum and you come as scummy on this trade.
If I don't vote my points doesn't have validity? that's just silly, I already said my way of voting and I will finish re reading everything to have everything clear.

[kuror0]

Huh I guess I understand both motives on the vedith thing. It buggs me a little that one voted w/o reading and the other wanted a competing wagon with only 8 hours left but I guess it is fine.

[kuror0]

pointing out is not obsessing.

Nope, but pointing it out, letting it die, then pointing it out again

is

obsessing. The question is: are you defensive town, or scum having trouble pretending to hunt and so repeating arguments?

Your last response was something I didn't touch a single time before.

If I don't vote my points doesn't have validity? that's just silly,

It's not silly at all. Making a weak scum read but not really pushing is scum 101.

I already said my way of voting and I will finish re reading everything to have everything clear.

Yeah, how about reading that Pine ISO like you've promised twice now? It's only 34 posts or so...

You rely on attacking me because you can't justify your bad actions, is it stubborn town or scum trying to discredit a person who made a point on him? About the ISO, I'm not making it as I'm re reading the whole thread which contains Pine's posts, so what's your point there?

[kuror0]

I don't understand wanting a competing wagon with 8 hours left, nor do I understand why that is "fine". That's dangerous games to be playing.

I know it is dangerous, it is not a decision I would take but I guess some town could try that and pressuring further in this point would go nowhere to determine his alignment so while I don't share the idea I move to something that can clarify me his alignment.

almost almost done with catch up but I got to take a trip so

V/LA till monday 12

. I'm sorry about that but it is something I can't avoid I may log or nothing at all during this time, again sorry.

[kuror0]

Drealmerz waggon is bad. Pine wagon is bad. Persivul jasson would still be my top 2 scum suspects. I skimmed most of whats new due to time constriction. I will read carefully when I get home by monday we will have 4 days let of day phase so it should be enough for everyone to be active and get a better idea who to lynch.

Btw I'm still waiting for creature to explain why he said I was only fluff posting. I'm not on board on his wagon but that has been bugging me.

[kuror0]

catching up slowly as I'm at work.

[kuror0]

VOTE: Persivul

Finished catching he is quite probably scum followed by culted. I doubt there are more than 2 scums on drealmz wagon, so far I think those 2 are the most probable. Blaming about coordinated attacks when I see the same happening with persi and culted, always chain defense.(is that the right term?)

[kuror0]

Leverage.
Before this there was only a few mentions of dreal (one very minor interaction where kuror talked about correcting dreal on something shaz said - basically meaningless) and then something once before that about agreeing to wait for everyone to check in.

Now, this is weakened by how much these guys haven't posted very frequently (at least dreal until recently -- kuror's presence has just been lurky in general) but this looks like a pretty convenient townread that came about with just about 0 effort to sort.

The confidence to call dreal such a surefire mislynch that he's ready to chainsaw both persivul and I doesn't add up with the rest of the iso.

Yes there were few interactions with him but that doesn't mean I can't get a read on him. There are 2 things that makes me sure he will flip town.

1st He has been pretty much on the same thought train I've been and I'm not talking about things said explicitly which would be easy to replicate I'm talking about point of view about players or actions which I didn't say openly but he got to the same conclusion I did at the time. This may be a weird thing to use as a town tell but in my experience it has turned accurate every single time and as someone who is bad getting town reads this is quite a thing.

2nd The way his wagon grow and the wagon composition. It is full of people I scum read or scum lean, except for shaziro who got lead there by culted. so yeah it reeks.

convenient town read? as scum and if he is a mislynch convenient would be to join the wagon when I came back from weekend and put him at L-1 or just take distance and wait for it to happen with apathy which at this pace would lead to his lynch. Pretty much every other option would be less risky and will yeld more benefits as scum but w/e at this point it will pretty much consider be considered wifom.

I'm defending someone with a horrible wagon and a strong town tell of mine and culted says it doesn't add to my iso. What the hell does that mean? I should just let scum take control and watch how it goes? Culted says chainsaw when after my vote on persi his first post is a vote on me. And this is not the only example. Andrius replaced showed suspicion on persi and culted proceed to vote him. And there is probably a lot more examples and I'm sure more people picked them up.

There's also the matter of him taking something dreal called persivul out for very early game (which was persivul saying that kuror asking to get the item was rolefishing or something I can't really remember) and calling it scummy instead of just calling it a misunderstanding. Thought that in particular was bad before.

But it's worse that kuror kinda took that and ran with it to build a wall case (like seriously read the post sly linked earlier it's the case on persi I've talked about forever) much later on after more potential traction built up around persivul, and made those thoughts his own.

Now this. "calling it scummy instead of just calling it a misunderstanding" why would I call it a misunderstanding when it was a clear misrepresentation? I always acknowledge when there is a difference in opinion or point of view that's normal but a misrep and the way he did it was nowhere "just" a misunderstanding. "made those thoughts his own." I literally had those thoughts and made the wall which has earned me scum reads from a few players, so I get double scum points for having thoughts and then working on them? or am I not getting something right from that last paragraph?

[kuror0]

OOG note: Happy birthday kuroi, have a nice day.

[kuror0]

Now this. "calling it scummy instead of just calling it a misunderstanding" why would I call it a misunderstanding when it was a clear misrepresentation?

The idea behind this game is to discern these things from one another, not automatically default to whichever one you want.

Yeah I automatically choose the one I liked more right. Not like I took the whole page to make an analysis of the words, way and context and gave a full explanation of my thoughts of why I said it was a misrep but yeah fuck all that let's just say I picked the convenient one.

[kuror0]

OOG note: Happy birthday kuroi, have a nice day.

Thank you! I had no idea our birthdays were in the same month.

And considering our name similarity, this is eerily strange.

yet I don't understand you at all. Not sure if your reads are completely opposite of mine all the time or if you are scum in every game. I know you have the lynchbait rep but it makes me paranoid about you being actual scum being covered by your reputation. On the bright side this game I think your reads are completely off but doesn't ping me as scum.

[kuror0]

@drealmerz

Read the above scumflail -- and think to yourself what would have happened had I not refreshed on a couple isos last night, you'd have gotten ghost ridden all the way to lynch. kuror0 didn't care if you ate rope today, his posts show that clear as day, he only cares about maximizing off your wrongness.

Think about it this way if you want. You're townreading kuror0 because he's literally just another you. His reads are yours for all intents and purposes. But you've never had a chat about reads with him have you?

I held your life in my hands and decided to give you another chance.
Swallow some pride and give me a chance. Give persi a chance. Vote kuror.

Yeah I don't care about his lynch that's why I just sat there and let him got lynched. oh wait, that's not what happened.

My reads are not his. I have different points of view in certain topics and players but I do agree with him on some of his way of approaching some stuff. That's why I town read him and I can only figure he have found the same on some of my posts, because no idea why else would he town read me besides agreeing with the views I have laid out. It is not about having the same reads but sharing a thought process and that's why it is a very rare tell for me but has been true every time.

Lastly but not least
"I held your life in my hands and decided to give you another chance.
Swallow some pride and give me a chance. Give persi a chance. Vote kuror." WTF is this. You decided to give another chance? Before my entrance you made shaziro vote for him. You were literally asking others to join his lynch.

@kuroi I wish I could believe in your word. We will see later I guess.

This was up to post 988 work keeps coming and too tired/busy to keep up with all the bs culted comes up with and trying to show others how is he portraying things conveniently. I will let others check and decide. If you wanna vote for me then do so but don't hammer till I had a chance to speak.

[kuror0]

Luckily for me I can prove easily I'm town and it will show on the next days. I'm on with jasson lynch tho I was hoping my wagon would grow some more but will work with what I got.

Calling intent I guess. Will wait till culted posts and jasson posts before hammering unless someone has something else to add.

[kuror0]

Yeah. It is not like I said multiple times since the start of the voting phase that I scum read jasson. Plus you are missing something important and it is the big picture. Also at this point if I vote on any lynch it is guaranteed that at least 1 person voting along is one of the ones I suspect, so I will vote along 1 player I suspect on someone I got a scum read since early day than someone I'm not sure is scum or even a town read who has already 2 or 3 votes of people I suspect.

[kuror0]

I didn't reply? I said I was tired dealing with you and hoped some people would see how you were portraying things wrong. Why you only said don't aim for dunn alone? why not kuroi aswell or someone else?(If we are talking about people who are being read as null). are you trying to make ghost connections for the future? (cuz you know you are going down.)

[kuror0]

I don't understand creatures role, was he shot by a vig as well?

The kill was submitted by a goon and not Strahd himself. So he died and wasn't turned. At least that's what I get from the role pm.

VOTE: kresk

With the info given in the thread this place looks like the best option. Fighting allies of strahd and possibly losing 1 more player for unknown benefits is not a good idea so vistani camp is not really an option to me.



I confirm kuroi is not a scum. I can't confirm he is town but I confirm 100% sure he is not scum.

[kuror0]

why would you claim that now?

kuroi for me is a wildcard. So I wanted to know asap what was his alignment. Also due to his playstyle he was bound to be a lynch option and I want us to focus on lynching scum.

[kuror0]

Mmmm didn't feel the need to hold it till he was in danger. I just wanted to say it now so on the lynch phase we don't waste time on him that's all.

[kuror0]

despite best efforts don't lynch me. I assure you I will be a pain for scum and I won't last past night 3 or they will regret it.

I still want kresk for destination. Flavor is nice and I like to know more about it but I don't fully trust shaziro's alignment.

-drunk kuro out.

[kuror0]

not supporting pine again. Neither dunn. Imo persivul, andrius and kuroi are good to me if they want the item.

@persi did I miss something or how culted is guaranteed town? just your read?

[kuror0]

too many protective roles along a couple investigative roles that we know so far. *paranoia intensifies*

Pine why you want to get the item monopoly? I understand you don't trust many players but don't you think getting all the items yourself will hurt town?

[kuror0]

Post Count =/= Post Quality

I understand that, but I feel you're nitpicking. I definitely provide more quality posts than I have in other games.

I'll have a reads list soon.

I don't remember the first quality post from you. That's why I had to check you first so we don't waste time on your slot.

[kuror0]

why would you want to lynch me I said I was an investigative role. Not a full cop but definitely I would help catch scum and clear town. Plus I said I was bound to die kind of soon so why waste a lynch on me? You don't believe any of my claims or what?

why would you believe a vig took a shot on Creature over dunn who is a miller claim? (I get it creature wasn't exactly the most towny player ever but a vig shot on him over a claimed miller doesn't have that much sense imo.) Plus on the role flip it says he would only turn if he was killed by stahd himself and not any scum. So guide me here why you think it was the work of a vig.

@shaziro what's the lore of the item so we maybe have an idea of what it does or why someone stole it or if scum had a special reason to do so. Was Pine's claim of the item power anywhere related to the lore?

[kuror0]

why would you want to lynch me I said I was an investigative role. Not a full cop but definitely I would help catch scum and clear town. Plus I said I was bound to die kind of soon so why waste a lynch on me? You don't believe any of my claims or what?

If this is what you're calling a claim, it's a wee-bit too cryptic for my tastes. Tastes a bit scummy to me. A claim with no info. "I'm a PR, don't lynch me. I won't share or explain my results. Don't let that bother you." is how it strikes my ears.

I confirm kuroi is not a scum. I can't confirm he is town but I confirm 100% sure he is not scum.

So you want a full disclosure of my roll from the start? That would be WAY more beneficial to scum than to town. I disclosed what I thought was good enough to town without giving extra free advantages to scum. as for the second part it is what it is. I can tell if he is mafia or not and he is definitely not scum when I checked. Now that we got the info about traitors and millers and stuff it is so incredibly low possibility of a 3rd party that you can pretty much guarantee he is town but I don't want to give my results as conclusion as it could mislead people I take we are all grown enough to think for ourselves and get to the conclusions.

why would you believe a vig took a shot on Creature over dunn who is a miller claim? (I get it creature wasn't exactly the most towny player ever but a vig shot on him over a claimed miller doesn't have that much sense imo.) Plus on the role flip it says he would only turn if he was killed by stahd himself and not any scum. So guide me here why you think it was the work of a vig.

Had I been taking a vig shot last night, I would only target the miller if I was certain he was lying scum. If I wasn't convinced he was lying scum, I'd target who I most thought to be scum slipping through the cracks. Creature's wagon hopping would have definitely caught my attention.

I remember yesterday you were supporting the idea that the vig should use his shot on dunn. I can probably find the quote if you need me to refresh your memory. and there is also this:

As for the flip...

The role flip doesn't say Strahd has to lead the attack.

In any game I've ever played as scum, the NK could be carried out by any member of the mafia, other than a traitor. That's what makes Creature's PM so interesting, it's specific in stating Strahd has an interest in Creature, then seems to list that interest as being Traitor, but in the description of what the outcome would be if Strahd lead the kill against him, Creature would have become a mafia goon. Holy smokes, BastardMan! Jason's PM didn't say anything about Strahd-lead NK's. My PM doesn't either. That leads me to believe only some players are "turnable" and

Strahd knows he has to lead the kill to convert.

Though I believe Strahd is not the only scum that can submit the night action, I believe Strahd will be submitting as many as he can if he knows that's a requirement of recruitment.

These are some of the factors leading me to believe the most likely scenario from last night is, Creature was vig'd and the Strahd-lead scum team targeted another player and failed.

That's what I will continue to believe until someone proves me wrong.

As soon as I saw Creature's flip, I knew that someone would come forth and be adamant about Creature being the scum NK. Not only was there one, there was 2, just Shaziro was indirect about it.

but you see

Spoiler: Creature's Role

Creature's Role PM

Hello!

Traitor:

If

Strahd

leads the nightkill on you, he will instead convert you to a vampire, as well as the mafia team as a Mafia Goon.

We agree on most of what you said here, which is what's obvious, including: any member of the scum team can make the night kill(shocking right), Strahd has to make the nightkill to convert(which is explicitly stated), not everybody is turnable (once again a surprise... not). But there are 2 things that can be worth looking at:

-Not everybody is turnable (are there even more than 1 having a miller is the question)
-Strahd has to lead the NK to turn a player. (Did he knew someone was turnable? if he did then for sure would try to lead as many night kills as possible, but that's the key word as possible. If the kill was made by mafia does that mean Strahd felt under scrutiny or something so they decide someone else to do the NK? The other option is indeed a vig took a shot at creature but that would mean scum failed the nightkill but I fear any discussion into this topic would just lead to more role claims or stuff that would hurt town.

(now look at me I wanted to say how you just jumped on one option made a paragraph full of obvious things and ended up throwing shade on people for saying they thought 1 option was more likely, and ended up making a rant of I don't know what instead)

my free time is up I will come back later and hopefully round up things last notes for everybody.

I think both Andrius and drealmz are town.

I am more interested in the following players:
shaddowez
shaziro
culted
slysly

[kuror0]

...but I don't want to give my results as conclusion as it could mislead people...

Where I'm from, this is what's known as "talking out of your ass". You did want to give your results. You did give them.

I remember yesterday you were supporting the idea that the vig should use his shot on dunn. I can probably find the quote if you need me to refresh your memory.

Yes, please, quote me. I am in need of refresher.

The other option is indeed a vig took a shot at creature but that would mean scum failed the nightkill but I fear any discussion into this topic would just lead to more role claims or stuff that would hurt town.

This is what I believe to be true. 'In fear' is no way to live. Discussion is pro-town. Shadiness is scummy.

1. Perhaps I worded it poorly. Let me clarify what I meant. I wanted to give my results (which I did obviously) but I didn't want to give my guesses and beliefs AS my results. You see one thing is I say he is not scum and another thing is saying he is town. Ofc now due to the knowledge we got of the set up it is pretty safe to assume he is town but just in case I let out my result raw so it doesn't confuse people later.

2.

Spoiler:

Looking through the game so far...

1. Pine and Shaziro - slight team up
2. Dunn - miller claim (always makes me think fake scum claim)
3. Creature - wanting to rope me for seemingly nothing

Oh and I'm, just on another thought, remembering JasonWazza coming in trying to call people scum for wanting to go to the shops and the woods. His delivery and tone with it all set off my scumdar. So...

VOTE: JazonWazza

If it weren't for the following way of thinking, I'd change my vote to Dunn because of what he's said since my vote combined with his miller claim. Because of the following, I'm fine with where my vote is until something with more weight catches my attention.

I could go for a Dunn lynch, but I'm more inclined to give a vig shoot him, if there is one.

Vigilante, please shoot Dunnstral. We need to resolve the Miller thing eventually, and vig shots are more expendable than lynches.

So does this refresh your mind or somehow I understood it wrong?

3. Now you are making shit up. Saying discussion is pro town but your actions where instantly throw shade on the players who believe the NK was due to scum and somehow believing one thing or the other is scum indicative? I believe there is a small chance the shot was made by a vig yet unlikely but still I'm not going around scumreading anyone that believes otherwise, mostly because I can't see how that alone would be alignment indicative. Seems you do so walk me through your thought process about it.

[kuror0]

I guess his lore wouldn't hurt but first I would like you to provide me this info shaz.

@shaziro what's the lore of the item so we maybe have an idea of what it does or why someone stole it or if scum had a special reason to do so. Was Pine's claim of the item power anywhere related to the lore?

[kuror0]

Wait, Pine claimed to know what the Burgomaster's thingy did? Where? The lore of which of the two items?

No. Let me re ask the questions.

1) Can you tell us the lore related to the vial thingy the Burgomaster gave?
2) Pine's item lore is anywhere related to Pine's claim of the item ability? (aka the necklace lore said it would recharge something or anything that we can correlationate with the ability?)

I hope it is clear this time.

[kuror0]

where is culted? this day phase he has only shown himself to make 1 line consisting of a vote and nothing else. Wanna know your insight your reads at this point and your thoughts about drealmz case.

[kuror0]

While drealmz attitude is not my cup of tea I have to say his claim looks real. I know 3 adventurers role pms. Creature one said you are name lastname but didn't had a specific class. Jasson one was fighter/eldritch knight which means class/subdivision? and mine does not follow any of those 2 pms so far. So for now it holds true. If we believe Pine's claim aswell that means we got at least 4 types of pm which means this whole thing is pointless. Time will tell.

@Shaziro besides this whole thing would you mind providing us some reads on other players? I don't have a clue where you stand on many slots because you have been mostly focused on drealmz and delivering lore.(not that I hate it and I even asked for some of it but your posts have been mostly focusing on that) so I want to know what you think about other players leaving lore aside.

@clumsy Happy birthday have a nice day. And what an awkward day to be born.

[kuror0]

The Creature kill was made by a vig. You have that in mind so if Pine is not what he claims you think someone else protected the target or scum just did a no kill on purpose to frame someone or what theory you have in mind? Cause I don't see much sense going against his claim that he is a doc when you believe scum missed their NK.

[kuror0]

The Creature kill was made by a vig. You have that in mind so if Pine is not what he claims you think someone else protected the target or scum just did a no kill on purpose to frame someone

Never have I suggested a no kill by scum. I suggested scum tried a kill and failed and would come out claiming Creature's death as the scum NK to mislead the town.

Yeah don't deviate from my question if you don't consider it was a no kill gambit then you think someone else protected the target or what's your theory?

[kuror0]

people should start arriving soon from holydays I got lots of questions and we probably have an extension so let's not rush the lynch. Plus I consider both Pine and drealmz lynch at this point to be bad.

[kuror0]

@Shaziro besides this whole thing would you mind providing us some reads on other players? I don't have a clue where you stand on many slots because you have been mostly focused on drealmz and delivering lore.(not that I hate it and I even asked for some of it but your posts have been mostly focusing on that) so I want to know what you think about other players leaving lore aside.

[kuror0]

We do need that extension. Most players were completely inactive during this time and we can use the time.

I asked sly several times what was his theory about the night actions and he has been dodging or being vague about it tho I don't understand why. So do you need more from him shaz? I can't ask you anything else because I don't have a base to work on you, I got no clue what's your stance on many things and how you read most slots so I will wait for that as a start to figure your slot.

@Sly What I got from your posts is that you believe the following things. a) You don't believe Pine's doc claim. b) Creature was killed by vig. c) Shaziro wasn't targeted to be the scum kill.
So I got those right?

[kuror0]

the fuck are you doing sly? we got 7 days and you leave pine at l-1? he already claimed so you won't get shit from him and you are just risking a quickhammer from someone coming and "not noticing".

[kuror0]

actually scum has day talk so pulling that out is not that crazy.

Sly so who do you think scum targeted and why that player didn't die?

p-edit: missing pine's post.

[kuror0]

How the shot failed? magic? the power of love? another doc protected the real target and saved him? Don't come saying you totally discredited a claim and a theory and you got nothing on your mind, yet you were sure enough the theory was false to scum read those who believed in that.

No one asked for your claim and it is not like someone is gonna be surprised from it.

^Yeah, this is too stubborn and dumb to be scum.

He has an agenda on you, well part of you. So not about being stubborn or not. It is about personal gain.

[kuror0]

I'm not claiming just because those I believe to be scum are pressuring me to.

Who is pressuring you to claim? I'm genuinely intrigued. Is there some sort of forum schizophrenia or am I selectively blind or something?

[kuror0]

Why don't we lynch dunn(just because his miller claim, I actually find him to be useful this time, or shaddowwez or even better culted, if we lynch culted I feel this game will be over for scum but hey no one listens to me.

-drunk kuro out.

[kuror0]

That discussion is just silly.

@mod

requesting the poke stick on culted and shaddow if able.

I wouldn't lynch today any of shaz drealmz or dunn. I think you guys are going at each other's throat because it is the only player you see around. The only weird thing is I already have too many town reads which is not normal but still feel pretty confident that at least one of shaddow-culted is scum. (specially culted but he has been mia this whole day so nothing else I can provide to make you understand)

[kuror0]

I've been poked! Catch up is happening now. Any compelling reasons for me to not vote Pine?

You haven't catched up but still want to vote for pine which means you are pretty sold on the reasons to vote for him, so would you mind telling us what are those reasons?

[kuror0]

The Creature kill was made by a vig. You have that in mind so if Pine is not what he claims you think someone else protected the target or scum just did a no kill on purpose to frame someone or what theory you have in mind? Cause I don't see much sense going against his claim that he is a doc when you believe scum missed their NK.

I'm still confused why people are convinced it was a vig shot. It says right in Creature's flip that Strahd has to lead the kill, which leads me to believe that it was just another scum, not Strahd.

I believe the same you do but that paragraph was meant to sly and it was using his mind set or at least the parts I had at that time. So if you wanna argue over why he believes it was a vig shot and not a goon kill, then be my guest.

I'm not claiming just because those I believe to be scum are pressuring me to.

Who is pressuring you to claim? I'm genuinely intrigued. Is there some sort of forum schizophrenia or am I selectively blind or something?

I don't believe this was ever addressed, except for some name calling. I don't see anyone "pressuring" you to claim either, so I guess most of the game is selectively blind?

I did my part claim because I wanted, there was no pressure and I never complained about it. So whats your point here? I can't ask for the reasons on actions I don't understand because I did X or Y in the past in a totally unrelated way? Or what am I missing?



Now about your reasons to vote for pine I don't agree with most of them but there are a couple of things that I had forgotten so I need to re check a couple of things. I still believe his item description and his personal claim but will re check some stuff.

[kuror0]

Pine what do you think of Sly's case on you?

[kuror0]

catching up.

[kuror0]

Nop I'm actually town. If it werent for someone clearing you I would be trying to get you lynched because you are super scummy to me but w/e.

I think I want pine around for tomorrow but there is just one thing really bugging me about him.

This was important information and deserves to be marked as such:

The amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. It isn't likely to be useful to me, but it should be helpful to someone in late game when I'm dead. Choose wisely.

why when you get like 2 limited use abilitys said the amulet wouldn't be useful for you?

[kuror0]

oh sorry I missed it and this makes sense so I hope you stay around so you can use the speak with the dead if I die. .

[kuror0]

@mod

is kuroi in poke stick range? requesting it. Also on shaddow.

2 days left of this phase as of this post which means we should have at least 1 day where people are not on weekend/holyday over so I hope we get to hear some people who hasn't been around.

It is annoying that I used an ability to clear someone because I thought he was going to be for sure a lynch option today but what I get in return is that he vanished I understand besides the normal weekend v/la he has it is also holidays but he hasn't been around here at all. So I hope he tries to be more useful in the future or if he is too busy with RL stuff replaces out.

I'm against Pine lynch. drealmz is making me doubt with all the rage and AtE he has been throwing and I don't share his scum read on andrius yet, and still not fully sure it is scum fakeclaiming so I'm thorn on him. The last waggon is shaddow which is not something I hate. He has been almost as useful as kuroi so I'm fine lynching him. Gonna wait a lil more before I do something stupid if the game keeps going like this.

[kuror0]

dralmz you got a tr on shaddow?

[kuror0]

ok let me re check before i ask why in case you already said it.

[kuror0]

Ugg. I actually liked his last 2 posts but that was after he got prodded and he has been very lurky which makes me doubt if he looks good because he only provides so little content that he doesn't have to put himself out there. Plus pine or yours are lynchs I would like a lot less.

[kuror0]

Creature is super pissy, by the way. He's posted like a dozen times this evening demanding for something to happen.

The TL;DR of that thread is that he wants us to prioritize Kuroi, Shaddow, and Culted. I don't agree with the last, but I said I'd bear the message.

Specifically about the Kuroi/Kuror0 alleged innocent, he's calling bullshit. Specifically, and I'm quoting here, "Tits or GTFO." I happen to concur. There's way too many vague "Trust me so-and-so is Town" in this thread.

TBH Creature has the same amount of info we do and the truth is I don't see as particularly wise on picking targets or something. He wants to go for the ones being cleared? I will outright call it retarded. go for me or the one who cleared culted. Not the ones being cleared. If I flip town you will be sure kuroi is town because faking one of those things would be stupid. But if kuroi flips town you still don't know if I'm town with an investigative role or scum faking it. Plus I'm sure you guys can wait 1 more night phase results will be delivered worst case someone will get killed and you will have a lot more info to decide if it is fake or not. (With that said Pine don't protect me if it ever crossed your mind, it is better that way.)

Anyways I do agree it is stalled and want something to happen but shaddow who I want to hear is missing and his wagon got this super weird resistance compared to jasson or for a semi lurky player on D2 against a doc claim.

VOTE: shaddow

[kuror0]

guys guys calm down. I actually have an idea to check if there is a GF around or not so let's not panic yet about that.

[kuror0]

I know I'm town, Culted got cleared for now, Pine is town on my reads. (Honestly no one countering a cleric claim or a doc claim makes me almost certain he is what he says.), Andrius is the only not so heavy town side on my reads so this is fine.

On pine we got a lurky miller claim, a tracker that didn't track, and sly which I'm pretty sure is also a scum read of yours. So yeah way happier with this waggon than pine one.

[kuror0]

Don't worry I will do it again.

VOTE: shaddowez

Yes that's hammer incoming post explaining.

[kuror0]

I'm rogue thief from the adventurers that second vote you just saw is the Potion of Glibness. Upon activating it I get a second individual vote. I just use it to prove I'm not lying and I rather lynch shadow than pine because incoming reasons.

As you can guess I stole the potion with my day ability which is steal. I can steal an item when we are during the assignment phase, this time I laid a trap and said if culted gets the majority of votes I use the ability (When I laid the trap it wasn't clear who would take the item and I was going to be away for a long time so it was a backup plan.) Why? you can track my distrust on culted since d1. Just after I stole the item was when someone cleared. Also I wanted to confirm if the item didn't had anything special that contradicted pine's claim. more incoming making it in small pieces in case clumsy closes

[kuror0]

So item says it is a small vial of golden liquid. Potion of Glibness: upon activating during the day (in the form of a pm) I get a second individual vote for that day phase and the second vote will bear my name aswell. If I didn't place the second vote it would remain hidden but once used it will be tracked even as unvoting on the vcs. There are no special abilitys named or any class restriction or anything besides what you just read. So I don't see anything that contradicts Pine's claim on the item.

[kuror0]

I asked shaziro about the lore of the possible items here was his answer:

Wait, Pine claimed to know what the Burgomaster's thingy did? Where? The lore of which of the two items?

No. Let me re ask the questions.

1) Can you tell us the lore related to the vial thingy the Burgomaster gave?
2) Pine's item lore is anywhere related to Pine's claim of the item ability? (aka the necklace lore said it would recharge something or anything that we can correlationate with the ability?)

I hope it is clear this time.

Ok, yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me.
1: I don't recall the Burgomaster giving us any item in particular, but I can tell you that the letter we delivered was

Spoiler:

that the abbot would bring his dead son back to life

so of course the burgomaster is super excited and happy with you. I do recall two vials of golden liquid, a Potion of Greater Restoration (Which can regenerate limbs, remove curses, cure diseases, etc.) and a vial of liquid youth that we found in a tower full of night hags. That one made you physically younger and more beautiful, gave some kind of charisma bonus.

2: Pine's item is a holy symbol, meant to be used by a Cleric though Paladins also make use of holy symbols. The item can be used by anyone for a plethora of effects from creating sunlight which is, of course, bad for vampires to casting some healing spells if I recall correctly. Clerics can use it to supercharge their Turn Undead ability, making it super strong. Given the large amount of abilities and the making one ability stronger, I -can- see how it could be a PR refresher. The range of the spells it can cast would effectively be every PR in Mafia, tbh. The only non-OP version would be to give refresh on abilities.

So make use of that to think how much lore related things we can take for granted and how much freedom did clumsy took for the effects.

P-edit: I know my day ability is scummy and I thought I wouldn't use it at all but I wasn't letting my main scum suspect take the item at the start of D2 so here I am trying to explain everything I can.

[kuror0]

Still deciding whether to claim my night ability or not it has both pros and cons for the current state of the game. If I stay alive for too long you guys will doubt my credibility but if I die too fast I could be wasting my ability. So sec making a plan.

[kuror0]

The good part is I can control if I die so I made my mind. If shaddow flips town I will go kamikaze attack on sly because I don't trust his crumbled claim so I die, he dies and with my flip you are all happy because understand what I've been saying is real. If shaddow flips scum I will just just observe someone but not sure which player will be perhaps shaziro or andrius mby someone else depending on what happens during twilight so that's it for now.

[kuror0]

Don't investigate and don't protect me it sounds fair to me.

[kuror0]

If shaddow flips town I will go kamikaze attack on sly because I don't trust his crumbled claim so I die

You're claim is the one that doesn't hold together. If I claim, it will be obvious who's building with sand and who's building with steel.

Your*

And that was empty blabling. So feeling better about going kamikaze on you. Lunch time. out.

[kuror0]

What's that governor thing?

[kuror0]

If that's true doesn't it mean we end the day in a no lynch? That's what the wiki said.

[kuror0]

why would you save shaddow if it is true and you are actually town sly? You can't possibly be a governor and have some confirmation of his alignment so you are just canceling the lynch because... ??

[kuror0]

plus I thought you were claiming something else and that's why you wanted Pine's item but if you are a governor there is no way it is good for town to give that item to you. You basically just crippled us way too hard depending on the rules or how this works.

[kuror0]

ok lets speak honestly. You are claiming both vig (which you heavily crumbled and that's why I stopped going after you) and also governor? what is your class and again why did you save shaddow?

[kuror0]

Just after I stole the item was when someone cleared.

IIRC I cleared before Culted got the item - that's partly why he got it.

You said something like culted is town. And that was it. believing it to be a investigation claim just because it was an statement seems dumb to me. Later you did say something like culted is town I guarantee or believe me as a heavy hint and that's when I understood it is some sort of role result so I backed from him.

About Pine, his claim is cleric - doc, the other protective was a fighter - bodyguard(jasson). while similar not exactly the same probably what happens with you and me. and dreal didn't said he had any sort of protective role that I remember correct me here if I'm wrong.

About sly ok if you were not claiming vig with all those "Creature was killed by a vig." then I have no clue what you meant but still I don't trust you at all.

[kuror0]

Waiting for clumsy to make a VC and any notes he may add. I want to know how that works and asses to know the best way to proceed. It is the first time I play with a governor so I'm not sure how much does his role and basic rules are different from the one on the wiki. 22 hours and 30min left of this phase.

[kuror0]

oh I just now read sly's post. If that's true then just waiting for clumsy. If clumsy haven't showed up 3-4h before deadline I will change my votes to sly.

p-edit: stop ninjaing me. Ok so this post still holds. Waiting for clumsy to make a VC and put his notes about what just happened, to say if we get a new deadline and day resets if shaddow can be lynched or not or w/e there is to add. If he doesn't come I will vote sly near deadline to avoid the no lynch situation.

[kuror0]

Ok, I'm here. Loved the game style. the different phases and the roles. The set up was swingy but not specially strong from a side early. It all depends on some luck and correct reads. If shaddow would have been around before I quickhammer he could have pulled the dayvig on someone and claim vig and then the game would have been very different.

If you ever make another game like this let me know, I liked it a lot. Reading the other PT to get a better idea what happened with the scum team.

[kuror0]

I finished reading the other threads. Still think it is swingy not entirely town sided. I mean I feel like scum team didn't even read their fucking pms or read their abilitys. That's just stupid. Clumsy did clarify that to turn the traitor strahd has to lead the attack. It is both on the pm and on the topic clarified yet they completely miss that. Dunns didn't use his ability n1, they let town get advantage while they kept all their weapons for later. If you use hut instead of greeding the item you would have got a lot of info about protective/healing roles on D1 and denied an item. N1 strongman one of the healing/protective roles. D2 dayvig the remaining protective role and you got a free realm from that point on. You could lead the d2 quest to somewhere unfortunate to keep hindering town instead of going for more items etc. Ofc it wouldn't go that easily down but your abilitys had the way to keep getting on our way and you didn't stop us at all. I think the result of this game is both good choices from town and very bad plays from scum.

Being town means you do everything you can to get you to your win con and not knowing how close or far you are from achieving anything. I picked the culted persi connection but I'm too dumb to think they were masons I guess that's why I'm bad at town hunting, I just poke around to find scum and never realize if I find town. My town tell on drealmz was right and I'm glad it did so I pick confidence in that. My play style and voting (or not voting) pattern as always gets me scum read by many but I honestly just try my best to find scum need to work hard on that aspect.

And again thanks clumsy for the game I enjoyed it a lot and let me know if another game like this comes up.

[kuror0]

I must agree with the scum your(@derealmz) ate or anger or W/e it was didn't sit well with me. I'm way too logical thinikning player to suit that but you had my only and trusty town tell which made me defend since D1. Plus it is a game that outrage was uncalled. If anything you probably feel the same way I do about how peoplr read you, despite your best effort you are scum read but that means you have to work your town game? and not get pissed about their appreciation. Just an appretiation from drunk kuro.

[kuror0]

Yeah, I thought town was going to hang both of their protectives. That was a huge swing when it went onto Shaddowez.

Scum didn't exploit their they day talk at all. Reading their PT I totally forgot thay could have ganged on someone. Their PT looked like any normal only night chat which is lame.