Mini 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Game Over

[Persivul]

Strahd is a vampire, so cemetery is the obvious choice.

VOTE: Cemetery

[Persivul]

I am 100% against Dunnstral getting the item btw.

Why? Because you think he's scum, or because you don't think he can use it?

[Persivul]

I want to start lynching.

Yeah, last time we played together you lost the game in lylo because you couldn't wait.

[Persivul]

Personally I'd like to know what the suspected power is just because I'm curious, but I get that that might not be good for town. For example, if they think that it might be bulletproof, you want that to go to a townie without the use being known, so that scum are tempted to target the recipient and waste a NK. So, I'm cool with the secrecy.

[Persivul]

Okay, so we don't lose items if a person dies, but if it's a night item and the person isn't guarded and dies, we still don't get to use it. We need to be careful-ish still.

It's probably still used in this case as kills are usually the last thing to resolve.

[Persivul]

VOTE: kuror0

VOTE: kuror0

Uh...why?

According to people who have played the game, the item might only be usable by cleric or paladin, and kuror hasn't given any indication that he's either of those. Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af.

[Persivul]

I looked up the Amulet of St. Markovia. It can only be attuned by clerics and paladins.

Can you link to this? I've been searching but not finding anything.

[Persivul]

WTF, one of you PLEASE change your picture.

[Persivul]

Further, he seems to be advocating that the power be openly listed, which is basically rolefishing and is scummy af.

Which of the following is the right one?:
a) you haven't read everything that has been posted.
b) you are a very poor reader.
c) you are intentionally misrepresenting.

d) none of the above

[Persivul]

@kuror0: You've said a couple times that you'd like to get the item. Why aren't you concerned that you'll be NK'd if you get it? I don't particularly want it as it puts a target on the recipient's back...if they're town...

[Persivul]

If it is none of the above why you stated that I wanted the power openly listed and I was rolefishing?

Parts of 200, 204, 211. You put in some disclaimer language, but you're still fishing for info on the item.

Mmm rolefishing much?

Nope, it was a general comment. It's like in pick your power - sure, getting a high draft gets you a good power, but if you're town it also gets you killed.

[Persivul]

Wow down to 8 hours already?

VOTE: Vedith

[Persivul]

I'm not assuming anything Dunn. I don't know shit about the item or about anyone in the game. This latest turn of events has me scratching my head. I don't like Pine voting for himself, especially so soon after what I posted. He wanted to give it to Shaziro, now Shaziro is voting for Pine.

Now I want anyone other than Pine or Shaziro to have it.

UNVOTE:

If I'm counting correctly, that's L-1 for Pine. Let's roll.

VOTE: Pine

What changed?

[Persivul]

yepyep

excellent

Why? What did you get from that that will help you catch scum?

[Persivul]

Vigs have free reign on kuroi, dunn and brantz. Keep the game moving and I bet there's one scum in those three.

Weren't two of those on VLA for most of the game?

[Persivul]

Okay, because being subtle isn't working, let me be blunt.

I looked up the Amulet of St. Markovia. It can only be attuned by clerics and paladins.

I am one of those two.

Where did you look this up?

[Persivul]

For suspecting you, Hypocritestral?

Also, now that the item is handed out and we've been told there's no special thing, I'll spill the beans. If a Cleric uses the item in the game, it has the ability to empower his Turn Undead ability, making it -very- good against Strahd and his minions. My assumption would be that it would be a one shot bulletproof against said minions/Strahd.

This was important information and deserves to be marked as such:

The amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. It isn't likely to be useful to me, but it should be helpful to someone in late game when I'm dead. Choose wisely.

What happened to not revealing the details of the item?

[Persivul]

I'm semi-BP anyway. I can self-heal.

WTF is with this claim?

[Persivul]

@Culted: Let vig deal with Dunn. If there's no vig in game, we can always lynch him tomorrow.

PEdit: No, they didn't. But now scum have to wonder if I was telling the truth and it's not useful to go after me, or whether I'm bluffing. I figure I may be able to absorb a kill this way. I've stuck my neck out this far and painted a target on my back, I may as well confuse them more. Or not! Fuck you, scum.

Yeah, and town has to wonder if you're putting out an excuse for why you're not being NK'd.

[Persivul]

@Persivul
Who are your scumreads at the moment?

Pine, but it's early and we need contributions from several players.

PLing someone who's been on VLA for a weekend is bad form. This isn't a blitz.

[Persivul]

Pine

shaddowez

drealmerz7

Shaziro
Dunnstral

JasonWazza

Vedith culted

KuroiXHF

kuror0
SlySly

Persivul
Creature

BRantz

Yeah, so the three lowest post counts - all on VLA for the weekend - are your scum pool. Laziest reads list I've ever seen.

[Persivul]

(no it isn't my readslist)

Then WTF is it?

VOTE: Creature

[Persivul]

Activity meter, if you're green, you're okay, if you're yellow, maybe try to be slightly more active, if you're red, please post more.

So...busy work. We can all easily see that by clicking on activity overview.

[Persivul]

This was important information and deserves to be marked as such:

The amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. It isn't likely to be useful to me, but it should be helpful to someone in late game when I'm dead. Choose wisely.

I'm semi-BP anyway. I can self-heal.

You can self-heal.

First, if this is true, town has every reason NOT to claim this. You should WANT scum to target you, thereby wasting a shot. Scum OTOH could claim it to explain why they weren't NK'd, as previously noted.

Second, it would be incredibly unfair to scum for a townie to have unlimited self-heals. This would likely be a 1X or at most 2X power. You claim the amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. Yet, you say that it isn't likely to be useful to you.

Third, rules say that mafia have daytalk. Pine said he found info on Amulet of St. Markovia. I tried googling it but didn't find anything. If Pine flips scum, then one of the people with flavor knowledge (shaz or jason, IMO shaz) is likely scum as well and fed him info in the scum chat.

VOTE: Pine

[Persivul]

but not how satisfied we are with each other activity.

Uhh...let me guess...you're likely to be unsatisfied with low activity?

[Persivul]

If it was me or Shaz, why would we tell him about the WRONG item.

Aside from the potential associative, what do you think of the other points I made against him?

[Persivul]

Yep, you wouldn't want to realise the day ended and see someone managed to not do anything all the day.

Sure. Of course, some people get a high post count by pointing out the obvious, and still manage to nothing all day.

[Persivul]

Okay then.

Why don't you do something useful, like comment on my case against Pine?

[Persivul]

If it was me or Shaz, why would we tell him about the WRONG item.

Aside from the potential associative, what do you think of the other points I made against him?

Can you link me to this, in the middle of a league game

It's in the same damn post that you just quoted. I made three points, and you started quoting partway into the third. But here you go:

This was important information and deserves to be marked as such:

The amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. It isn't likely to be useful to me, but it should be helpful to someone in late game when I'm dead. Choose wisely.

I'm semi-BP anyway. I can self-heal.

You can self-heal.

First, if this is true, town has every reason NOT to claim this. You should WANT scum to target you, thereby wasting a shot. Scum OTOH could claim it to explain why they weren't NK'd, as previously noted.

Second, it would be incredibly unfair to scum for a townie to have unlimited self-heals. This would likely be a 1X or at most 2X power. You claim the amulet recharges a limited-use power to full uses. Yet, you say that it isn't likely to be useful to you.

[Persivul]

It doesn't quite say what it does, though.

I'm reading it as saying that if you have a 1X power and use it, this amulet would give you 1X back.

[Persivul]

483 is a real case of mine on KuroiXHF.

You didn't make 483.

[Persivul]

So essentially it's a refresher?

I'm not familiar with that term.

If he's nervous scum, as he seems to be, it could be something completely different, and he just screwed up in making a fake claim about the item.

[Persivul]

I'm meh on him, i don't like how he claimed, and the way he went around claiming, but i'm not really overly thinking he is lynch worthy at this point.

So you see those things as negative, but don't think he's lynch worthy. OTOH you have a vote on drealmerz but haven't made a case on her at all. Why is drealmerz more lynch worthy than Pine, and why aren't you explaining or pushing your case? Feels like scum who can't make a case but know that they're supposed to be voting someone.

[Persivul]

I agree with this 100%. I don't agree with lynching Pine though because if we do, he gets to pick who the item goes to. If he dies at night, we get to vote on it.

Lynching scum outweighs the benefit of any item. We don't know that we have a vig.

[Persivul]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm willing to at least wait through N1 to take Pine out.

If Pine is scum and we don't lynch him, then scum definitely have the item tonight.

If Pine is scum and we do lynch him, then there's a good chance he gives the item to town as wifom, since whomever he gives it to will be a suspect.

[Persivul]

Upon further thinking, if Pine can self heal, I don't want a vig wasting a shot on him.

Good point. Also, if he gives the item to someone suspicious and we do have a vig, the vig can target the recipient.

[Persivul]

Me not posting a case = me not having a case?

Yes, that's certainly a possibility.

Another is that you have a case but aren't posting it. There's no town motivation for doing that. Sometimes a person doesn't post a case because it's incomplete and they don't want to tip off the suspect, but in that situation they don't tip off the suspect by voting them.

[Persivul]

I also don't like how he only show show situations where Pine was scum to promote his lynch neglecting completely the town Pine mislynch consequences.

Feel free to point those out. As I see it, if he's mislynched:
- we lost a townie who made himself an easy mislynch target by claiming for no reason and in a contradictory manner

- we get better info than from another mislynch, as the people on his item wagon now look better

So tell me what I'm missing.

[Persivul]

I have a case, it's mostly just me procrastinating to typing it up.

1. You could have held off on the vote until you had time to post the case. Naked votes frequently cause suspicion. This is nothing new.

2. If it's a good case I'll think better of you.

[Persivul]

So you're basically echoing Dunn's thought process on why to vote for Pine.

Maybe - I really didn't understand what he was saying there. I know that I made a good case for Pine as scum, and you're skipping over it to address a later point as to why we should actually lynch scum.

[Persivul]

That doesn't mean I have to like the idea of "Let's lynch him to find out if he's scum", which is drastically different than "I think he's scum, let's lynch him".

My position, as seen from my case, is

I think he's scum, let's lynch him.

Others put me in the position of arguing the lynch in other ways due to their assumption that there's a vig who would shoot him if we don't lynch him. If you look at an isolated post of mine it might seem odd, but if you read all of them, along with posts I was responding to, I think it's clear.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Pine

It's my understanding that the item passes on, on a lynch, before the night phase, and so can still be used. The person gets to select where the item goes. Let's kill Pine to see if scum took it for themselves, and if they're town they get to select who gets the item.

You're literally saying "Town helped him get this item, now let's lynch him to see if he is actually town or not." That's terrible, and I can't even fathom how that would ever come from a town mindset.

Actually, I said the opposite. Replace the words town with scum

Regarding Dunn's approach above: the first is bad, as he seems to be saying we should try this even with no scum read on Pine or the Pine item wagon. The second one seems to indicate he's suspicious of Pine and/or the wagon, but it's not clear.

I don't like it, but reading dunn's ISO overall he's not high on my priorities rn.

[Persivul]

I shall complete with my thoughts.
If Pine is town and we don't lynch him, scum won't have the item tonight and we will force them to risk a kill attempt on him.

He's already said that the item is unlikely to benefit him. Doesn't make much sense considering his claim, but that's what he said. So, no, scum won't be forced to target him, even if he is town. The item would sit unused by either side, which might not bother scum at all.

Town still won't be sure about the abilitys of the item.

So you think he's town but lying to us?

If Pine is town and we do lynch him, then we know the item ability is confirmed

How so? I don't recall that mod flips the item on death of the owner.

but the new recipient of the item is an unknown alignment because Pine wouldn't know if the person he choose to give the item is town or scum.

Item owners will always be of unknown alignment to townies.

[Persivul]

his lynch doesn't look like the most pro town thing to do

If he's the scummiest player, than his lynch is pro-town. Way too much emphasis is being put on the item. It's still a game of mafia in the end.

That said, I need to mull over his most recent post.

[Persivul]

No, that he specifically said he looked up the Amulet of St. Markovia, but now claims he couldn't remember the name.

Okay, because being subtle isn't working, let me be blunt.

I looked up the Amulet of St. Markovia.

It can only be attuned by clerics and paladins.

I am one of those two.

[Persivul]

Wrong name, right result. He got the name from my early post pointing out that the amulet of st markovia could be a in a graveyard. The actual item of St. Markovia is a thigh bone, I was confused with a different holy symbol, as in my Curse of Strahd game we got both. Basically, Pine is on the right track.

By searching around for the wrong name, he found the right item. FoS on Dunn and Creature atm.

Kinda surprised you don't remember that considering the above.

[Persivul]

I see a lot of pushing for a pine lynch - which also seems really off to me because ummm, hello, maj voted him to get the item. If maj. thought he was scum and should be lynched, we shouldn't have given him the item.

Umm, hello, the main reasons for scum reading him - disclosing a self-healing power (HORRIBLE as town), claiming the amulet wouldn't help him even though it recharges limited use powers and he later admitted his power is limited use - came AFTER the item vote.

still not sold on townpine though, because he just reeks of scummyness all over - it's bothersome indeed

Yeah, this is scummy af. Hedging your bets.

scumpings galore from persivul here - framing to have pine seen as scum, to put it simply

Scumpings, after you say yourself that Pine reeks of scummyness.

words from sly sly like "take pine out" and again the general talking of killing pine now after maj. thought he should get it, is off to me - makes me want to go take another look at slysly too

Huh? You're suspicious because he wants to take out someone who you say reeks of scummyness?

definitely good with my persivul vote, those voting pine make me crazy - and I hate the claim and find him pretty scummy, but, still even so, no, that's a bad vote duhs

It's bad to vote someone who reeks of scummyness and made a claim which you hate?

no one really comes close to scummyness as persivul I think but jason is close I could lynch him if it came to it, but we've got time so no rush

Overall, you're coming across as Pine's scum buddy - looking for a counter wagon, but saying pine is scummy just in case his lynch goes through.

[Persivul]

Why the fuck do you make three posts in a single minute?

[Persivul]

Let me just finish.

Go do your free thought stuff in Word or something. When you're done, clean it up, and post it here.

[Persivul]

Why do players miss my "it isn't a readslist" post?

Because it comes

after

the apparent readslist.

[Persivul]

Have you ever played with town!me?

Yes. In lylo, you pretty much said

LOL I don't want this to go on for days

and then lynched town, despite scum having made a serious mistake. If we didn't have pine and drealmerz, I'd PL vote you.

[Persivul]

Dunno if I agree with persivul that pine and dreal looks like distancing, it could be, but dreal's lack of panic atm with pine getting close to eating rope is enough for me to put that off for at least today.

I believe Pine's wagon is at 4 and stalled now.

You're voting dreal. In a scum!dreal world, what's the alternative to scum!pine and distancing? If pine were town, scum!dreal would be WKing him for town cred. Instead he's saying Pine reeks of scummyness, but then taking the bizarre position that, since very early in the game Pine appeared townie, we should ignore the current reek.

[Persivul]

Don't bring this game again.

Play better and I'll stop.

[Persivul]

Does your "Play better" include voting Pine?

No. Vote according to your reads.

[Persivul]

(2) Persivul - drealmerz7, Pine

Dreal - voting with the person who he finds all kinds of scummy, but says we shouldn't lynch.

[Persivul]

This is the kind of bullshit, scummy argument that I initially voted Persivul for

No, you initially voted me for being a "Shady character during early stages" in 344.

In 429, it was "I've got a fairly minor "general feel" SR on Persival."

[Persivul]

huh you are right, sorry about that. Still let me re-check to know where I got that idea from.

Probably from Pine himself. Jason hasn't voted him and was just asking questions, and Pine got very defensive.

[Persivul]

Fuck. I think JasonWazza is town.

Me too. Also culted and shaddowez.

[Persivul]

You're really obsessing over something that wasn't a big deal to me. Have you noticed that I haven't voted you, and my few posts to you since then have been more conversational than accusational? However, your focus on defending rather than scum hunting (you haven't voted me, so that's how the above comes across), when you don't even have a vote, is making me think you're worth a closer look.

p-edit: this is about the previous post (obviously)

[Persivul]

Why you guys voted for vedith to get the item when we were so close to deadline I don't remember him saying anything special to get the tracktion and I'm pretty sure Pine had already soft-hard claimed, you both voted for vedith out of the blue with no context or justification so I ask now, why?

Personally I wanted a competing wagon for informational purposes and vedith was the next best thing at the time.

[Persivul]

Pine/Dunn might be a bus

Why does it have to be a bus?

Am I in the twilight zone?

Looks like a bus now because you moved your vote to drealmerz without explanation.

[Persivul]

pointing out is not obsessing.

Nope, but pointing it out, letting it die, then pointing it out again

is

obsessing. The question is: are you defensive town, or scum having trouble pretending to hunt and so repeating arguments?

[Persivul]

If I don't vote my points doesn't have validity? that's just silly,

It's not silly at all. Making a weak scum read but not really pushing is scum 101.

I already said my way of voting and I will finish re reading everything to have everything clear.

Yeah, how about reading that Pine ISO like you've promised twice now? It's only 34 posts or so...

[Persivul]

Pine/Dunn might be a bus

Why does it have to be a bus?

Am I in the twilight zone?

Looks like a bus now because you moved your vote to drealmerz without explanation.

VOTE: Pine

Fair enough...

[Persivul]

I don't see Pine claiming semi-BP as scum.

Why not? What are the town motivations for the claim?

[Persivul]

Anyone that plays with creature, is he just another SnarkySnowman?

Because that is how he seems to me.

According to his profile he's 14 - he's just a kid screwing around. I try to avoid him but he seems to sign up for a lot of the games offered.

[Persivul]

The difference is that I play to win, but I also play to have fun.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with the first part, mmkay?

[Persivul]

I'm not playing to win because I'm not wagoning Pine?

Must you repeat this non sequitur? You tried it once already.

[Persivul]

I've given my reasons.

Yes, and they're bad - but I'm asking Creature.

What are the scum motivations? Who would I be protecting myself from?

As previously noted, a scum motivation is to establish a reason for not being NK'd.

[Persivul]

Asking what the Town motivation for such an action is without considering scum motivations is both classic strawman argument and false dichotomy btw.

Not considering scum motivations? Scum motivation was given in 457 and repeated in 474.

Why are you misrepping me?

[Persivul]

PEdit: I'm not misrepping you, I don't think it's valid. Why the fuck would I do that?

You said scum motivation wasn't being considered, and a one-sided argument was being created.

Now you say that scum motivation has been considered, but you don't think it's valid.

You misrepped me. Now you're changing your story - as you've done on other issues.

[Persivul]

I think you misunderstood, I said I don't see why scum would claim semi-BP.

That's already been explained. A townie with an item is an obvious target for scum's NK. If Pine is scum, he expects (barring factors which we don't know yet, like vig or SK) to be alive tomorrow. By putting out a BP claim, he proactively explains that.

It wasn't the best thing for town to do, but I don't think it's scum motivation.

Not the best thing is a big understatement. Hell, if I were in the position he painted I'd be way excited, as I'd have a good chance of wasting a scum kill. Sure, there's the possibility of a roleblocker or strongman, but if you keep your mouth shut, the likelihood of being targeted by those is small.

[Persivul]

@ Pine:

(5) Pine - Persivul, SlySly, Shaddowez, KuroiXHF, Dunnstral

If as you say:
- You're town
- I'm scum
- The arguments against you are bad

Then:
- who are the other scums on your wagon?
- why do you think any townies are on it?

[Persivul]

Yeah, it was an error. AllI can do is make the best of a bad situation.

But you then went on to say that your role PM hinted there were ways for your heal to be overcome. How was that making the best of a bad situation?

[Persivul]

I personally have never seen Creature never not try to win

I have.

[Persivul]

I've mentioned it already. Creature asked me to stop talking about it.

[Persivul]

What are your reads like?

[Persivul]

VOTE: drealmerz7

[Persivul]

mod, that's 3 on dreal

I can count really well today. >_> (Fixed, thank you)

[Persivul]

Agree with drealmerz that Persivul's 503 is terrible.

Why? Do you even understand the context of the post?

[Persivul]

Creature wagon is bad

Agreed - they should move somewhere else. This game is slow on weekends, before you know it deadline will be looming. Need to start consolidating.

[Persivul]

You're on creature - you're in no position to criticize anyone for the wagon they're on. Creature's playstyle makes him a horrible D1 lynch.

[Persivul]

and I'm scum because I disagree with that view?

Uh, can you explain the logic in that conclusion...considering I already had my vote on you?

[Persivul]

Again, I'm also ok lynching Persivul.

You had me at the bottom of your reads list and you reiterate that you would lynch me...yet your vote is on Jason. What's up with that?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Andrius

If Andrius is scum replacing in, why doesn't he jump on the Pine or dreal wagon? Why go with Jason, which only had 1 vote?

[Persivul]

The same reason scum won't try to act like scum.

Doubtful those wagons are both scum driven. He could easily adopt arguments already given and get on one of those while still appearing townie.

[Persivul]

Yes, I get that you're willing to vote anyone on your scum list. But, as your list seems to be ordered and Jason is only second scummiest out of 4, it doesn't make sense for you to start there while you wait for sly to respond to your buddying.

[Persivul]

Okay.

VOTE: Persivul

I prefer this one. While I can see a possible Town perspective for Jason, I don't see one for the

manipulating and bullying

attitude Persivul has displayed.

even more reason for such

arrogance in pers's attitude/agenda pushing

Yep, coordinated attack.

[Persivul]

Yes, how clever of us to coordinate right out in the open, when we have daychat.

Point being that the nature of the attack - AtE - appears coordinated.

Bullyin

g and

arrogance

coming out like that seems like more than coincidence.

[Persivul]

See the BP claim isn't a BP claim and its straight up Pine.
I mean. I see where has coming from but it just sounds like scum making a big fru fru over nothing.

Claims are generally analyzed. This one was unnecessary and, if true, it would have been much better for town if it had not been made. Pine himself has admitted it was an error. So, how do you conclude that it was "a big fru fru over nothing"?

[Persivul]

@Pine & @Persivul

Can both you guys take a step back and recalibrate your reads on one another?

I moved my vote to dreal some time ago. I didn't specifically say at the time that I was more comfortable with Pine, but ftr - yes, I can somewhat buy his case of being town playing wifom with scum in the claims. I don't completely buy it, but I'll need associatives to sort him, so as it's D1 he's out of my lynch pool for now. rn I could go with dreal, kuror0, or Andrius (hate the slysly buddying).

[Persivul]

Ok, who is currently -Townreading- Creature?

Nullreads? Please explain.

Creature is too fluffy for a solid D1 read. He's more sortable after some flips, or he's a good use of an investigation.

[Persivul]

not trying to be abrasive

just stern

I mean, I don't even know what to defend because I don't even really see much of a case on me it just feels like I'm being strongarmed towards the gallows

I made an objective case on Pine and you scum read me for it, so maybe it's karma...

[Persivul]

The Infamous Persivul 503

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm willing to at least wait through N1 to take Pine out.

If Pine is scum and we don't lynch him, then scum definitely have the item tonight.

If Pine is scum and we do lynch him, then there's a good chance he gives the item to town as wifom, since whomever he gives it to will be a suspect.

Paraphrasing...

1. "If Pine's scum and we don't lynch him, since Pine's scum, scum will have the item tonight." Truth
2. "If Pine's scum and we do lynch him, whoever he gives it to gets the bullseye." Truth

I don't see scumminess here.

Nice to see someone that can actually read.

[Persivul]

I think the issue here was both options are if he's scum.
Whether he's town-aligned or not is never discussed here as an option.

And that's because I was addressing sly, who had just said in 498 that he agreed with my case that Pine was scum 100%. He was only against lynching Pine due to concerns on item mechanics. So, I addressed those concerns in 500 and 503. It makes perfect sense when you read the whole exchange. That's why I asked you if you understood the context. You clearly didn't.

[Persivul]

Andrius replaced in late, I can forgive him for an innocent case of iso-fail.

The way he's been sucking your dick you should be especially wary of him.

[Persivul]

I'm not concerned with you town reading me, but FWIW, I'm usually pretty cheery as scum.

[Persivul]

I'm not concerned with you town reading me, but FWIW, I'm usually pretty cheery as scum.

I never said I town read you.

No shit. Neither did I.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Jasonwazza

Promises case on dreal and doesn't deliver, goes back to item spec, now has disappeared with deadline looming.

[Persivul]

I have a case, it's mostly just me procrastinating to typing it up.

This implied a case was coming. If you're just quibbling over the word "promise," I'll retract it.

[Persivul]

So your confidence is lowered by my not posting a case how?

Like legitimately that is a shitty reason.

You seem to be saying that one should have equal confidence in a naked vote and in a vote with a case. That's just ridiculous.

[Persivul]

Why is it my job to show you the proof?

Because you claim to be town, and town's job is indeed to make cases on their scum reads so that other town can evaluate.

And the reason i haven't posted a case is laziness.

And that's an acceptable excuse because...?

[Persivul]

Yeah, for somebody who has a case, you're sure afraid to share it. Waiting for VC, but if it isn't hammer I'm willing to move my vote to Jason.

By my count it's just 4 rn.

[Persivul]

I never said it was acceptable, i'm pointing out that voting me for laziness (which generally isn't alignment indicative) is a terrible idea.

That assumes that we

believe

that laziness is the reason.

[Persivul]

I'm just gonna claim because you guys lynching me helps no one.

I am a form of bodyguard, that can also be used during a quest casualty (as a day ability).

This is likely role madness, and that's a pretty meh role.

[Persivul]

I'm an Eldritch Knight

Do you have a name?

[Persivul]

Reading commences when my breakfast is out of the microwave.

Yeah, why bother with that announcement?

[Persivul]

Because I told you I'd do this before/after my 9am thing?

Which was another useless announcement.

Hey everyone, I'm going to go take a shit, then I'll post. But if I don't post, I'll come back later and announce that I'm gonna take a piss, then I'll post.

[Persivul]

Just being pissy.

[Persivul]

i will say given what Pine has said i can use the item part that he declared

How so?

[Persivul]

I don't think he's at L-1. Creature switched.

[Persivul]

Especially seeing how the person he's voting now is also voting Jason.

IMO that's generally not a big deal on D1.

[Persivul]

INTENT TO HAMMER

He already claimed and claim has been discussed. What's the intent for?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Kresk

[Persivul]

You are so scum. Trying to get people killed in a quest (higher percentage of townies, more likely we'll be killed). Bulbazoor isn't even in the game. Bad NK spec. We should have stayed on this yesterday.

[Persivul]

OK.
VOTE: Vistani

Who did you target last night?

p-edit: Above is at pine. @Dunn - not reading the game I see. This is old news.

[Persivul]

Town:

Culted
Andrius
kuror0
KuroiXHF (based on kuror's report)

Null:

Pine
SlySly

Null/scum:

shaddowez
Shaziro
Dunnstral

Scum:

drealmerz7

[Persivul]

You think I'm null/scum but were willing to vote with me for where to go?

Yep, and now you're closer to scum with that question.

[Persivul]

I targeted Shaziro. I figured scum would be too pussy to go for me when I was a claimed self-healer.

Why did you think scum would target Shaziro?

[Persivul]

VOTE: kresk

[Persivul]

And perhaps uncharacteristically aggressive

Yeah, the first "too pussy" struck me as uncharacteristic, and now the double down.

VOTE: Culted

^Guaranteed town.

[Persivul]

culted is a strong town player, which makes him a likely NK target also. Considering we've had a Bodyguard flip, it's probably not the wisest decision to give it to him either.

It's safe to give the item to culted.

[Persivul]

I have a hard time believing we have a Miller AND a Traitor.

We seem to have a number of investigatives, making this not so difficult to believe.

[Persivul]

Vote: Persivul unless he chooses to pass on it.

Culted is a better option.

[Persivul]

Someone hammer Culted and let's move on to the lynch phase.

[Persivul]

Drealmerz is my first choice. Pine has moved back down to my scum pile. I'm currently not interested in voting kuror0.

[Persivul]

VOTE: dreal

[Persivul]

culted - leading the charge on horrible wagons based on horribly framed logic that is clearly pushing an agenda and perspective that is putting fear into everyone - hands down top scum choice

persivul - my first scumchoice in the game I think, at least the one that persisted the most, if shaz isn't scum, pers definitely is, but if shaz is scum, pers still could be - again, lots of horribly framed views and trying to push agendas based on those

VOTE: Pine

For now. Trying to decide if dreal is scum or just clueless town.

[Persivul]

...due to the threat of self-targeting, which would waste their shot

Welcome to what i've been saying all along. Convenient threat claim to hide behind.

'Convenient' is what you say when it's deployed after the fact. I volunteered the information. If I were scum, I would have just said nothing about it.

No, if you were town, you would have just said nothing about it, in hope that you could waste their NK.

[Persivul]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Persivul]

Nooses are for Pinesies

[Persivul]

VOTE: drealmerz

[Persivul]

Regarding the possibility that Creature was a vig shot: as Creature's role pm said that he could be turned if targeted by Strahd, Strahd's likely says that there is a traitor that he can turn. So, it would make sense that scum would use Strahd for the kill.

[Persivul]

It's time to vote shadow.

Pine's town.
Dreal's bad town.

Four days is an eternity.

Deja vu all over again. Didn't work well first time, did it?

[Persivul]

Shaddow should be investigated. Dreal or Pine should be lynched.

[Persivul]

It is also bad gameplay to investigate scummy players. If it returns guilty, congrats you were right about what you thought all along. If it returns innocent, it brings up Godfather WIFOM, which doesn't help.

Use Cop shots on null reads and

lurkers. They're the most bang for your buck

.

Exactly. Shaddowez has the lowest post count.

[Persivul]

@persi did I miss something or how culted is guaranteed town? just your read?

No, it's not a read.

[Persivul]

Persivul is 100% town.

I am confirming receipt of something I received in the middle of the night.
You know who you are.

TOWN
Pine
drealmerz
Shaziro
culted
SlySly
shadow

Dunn
Kuroi

SCUM
Jason
Persivul
Kuror0
Creature

Creature dead.
Jason dead.
Persivul moves up two blocks.

Did some reading, confident in a townread on him

.


Reads need work

A sudden switch to 100% indicates something more than a read. You then say it was just a read. Which is it?

[Persivul]

But he's actively scummy. Waste of a use from my POV. Just lynch him, use a Cop shot on someone hard to read, like you or one of the Ks

If he's actively scummy, it should be easy for you to make a case on him, but you haven't. Eerily similar to a scum game you didn't bother linking to doesn't cut it.

[Persivul]

I reread Curse of the Werewolf from two years ago and feel better about Pine.

Yeah, this is bad.

[Persivul]

Ugh. I could compromise on Shaddow. I think there's less chance of him being scum than Dunn, but he's gotta go sometime.

VOTE: Shaddow

Flash wagon gogogo

This is the worst post of the game. This needs lynched.

VOTE: Pine

[Persivul]

His second point is entirely speculative, with regard to how I'm trying to hoard items with nonconfirmable abilities etc. Well, kinda bullshit. Most people have unconfirmable roles, so what's his point?

My vote on you has nothing to do with your item. If you're town, which you're not, I think you should give me the item when you get lynched, but that's irrelevant. My vote on you is because I think you're scum, with Shaziro, hiding behind 1. a convenient self heal claim, 2. convenient results on who i've been seeing and calling you buddying with all game.

That's where I'm at rn as well.

[Persivul]

As much as I'd rather not waste such a useful ability at all

It's not useful at all at this point. People don't gain special insight from dying. It's really only useful if an investigative dies without naming or crumbing some innocents. Even then, it's only useful to the extent that you're trusted.

[Persivul]

What's scummy about it?

[Persivul]

You want to lynch me, but think actually using the power before I die shouldn't be done.

If I were in your position and town, I wouldn't waste the power. It's just a LAMIST play on your part. And, while I believe that a cleric could speak with the dead, it seems reasonable to believe that a vampire could as well.

You don't want any additional information.

From those two? No. As noted, they don't have anything useful to give. If you were town, you'd be saving this.

[Persivul]

Speak With Dead is a Cleric spell, vampires do not get it. Pine is town, Dreal is not.

How about Strahd himself? I can't find the exact 5e details on him, but in previous versions he was a powerful necromancer.

[Persivul]

Persivul is 100% town.

I am confirming receipt of something I received in the middle of the night.
You know who you are.

TOWN
Pine
drealmerz
Shaziro
culted
SlySly
shadow

Dunn
Kuroi

SCUM
Jason
Persivul
Kuror0
Creature

Creature dead.
Jason dead.
Persivul moves up two blocks.

Did some reading, confident in a townread on him

.


Reads need work

A sudden switch to 100% indicates something more than a read. You then say it was just a read. Which is it?

[Persivul]

Huh, I don't get 100% reads ever.

But, since you have me as 100% town, why aren't you accepting my guarantee that Culted is town?

[Persivul]

You're not *actually* 100% town.
That'd be near impossible.
But close.

I didnt know you had a guarantee on culted.
But you have piqued my interest.

If you believe the claims and assume scum aren't conf-towning people, then kuror, kuroi, me, and culted are all town. With creature's flip, there are probably 3 scum remaining, and they're in:

Pine
shaddowez
drealmerz7
Shaziro
Dunnstral
SlySly
Andrius

[Persivul]

Speak with dead doesn't make any damn sense as a scum power.

No, but it's fine as part of a fakeclaim. There's absolutely no way you can prove you have it.

They're the informed minority and gain nothing from talking to dead Town. Cure Wounds doesn't make sense for scum either.

It does if there's a vig, and again, you can't prove you have it.

[Persivul]

How the crap did kuror0 get into that list?

kuror claimed to have a not-scum (although not definitely town, but after the traitor flip and single kill a SK seems unlikely) on kuroi.

Still haven't seen where you mentioned the guarantee.

Not surprising, as you're obviously not reading the game.

[Persivul]

dreal, what were you trying to accomplish with the message? Will you share the entire message with us?

[Persivul]

shaz, what are you reads?

[Persivul]

Ok look.
Saying "guaranteed town" without extra words and "guaranteed town pls trust me role stuff" or "guaranteed town I'm a cop I investigated him N1 he's town" are three different things.

Yep. But, I was asked for clarification, and clarified that it was not merely a read. You missed that, too, and now are ignoring it. You seem like cornered scum more than skimming town.

[Persivul]

If you're seriously telling me that I'm supposed to take all of the claimed results and your own little tee hee at face value then you have another thing coming.

You shouldn't take anything at face value.
If you have reason to doubt kuror's, let;s discuss it. It didn't seem scummy to me.

Look.
I can play the culted is town ballgame.
Because that's easier and, frankly, I have little reason to distrust you.
But this is slowly turning into a massive tee hee game which has its own complications.
Namely the fact that there may be a town-aligned killer running around who could screw with certain people playing coy.

I trust you understand what I mean.

No, I don't know what you mean, and I don't know what a tee-hee game is.

[Persivul]

So here's an example.
Let's say we have a Vigilante running around.
If there are Masons in hiding, for example, there's the risk that the vig hits them.

So a silent tee hee game may be detrimental to the town.

This is obvious role madness. If there's a vig, he's going to hit a PR every time.

[Persivul]

presi get in on this babe

No. Shaddow has the lowest post count. Vig or investigative should take care of him. If we lynch and he flips town we learn nothing. Dreal and Pine both had wagons D1 and D2. One of those needs to die. If they're town at least we learn something.

[Persivul]

Its not kuror0's investigation, its kuror0 himself.
Scum can play the tee hee game too.

Tee hee game is basically softclaiming results or going "NO TRUST ME THEYRE TOWN" and not doing anything about it.
So what happens is we have a bunch of small/softclaims and no concrete information.
Now I'm not arguing for a massclaim or something like that, but the 'they are town because REASONS YOU DONT GET TO KNOW' isn't a blank check and we cannot allow this to just sit forever.

So yeah. You going I GUARANTEE culted makes me cringe even if I'm going to trust you on the matter.

Personally I think we should massclaim, but not today. Tomorrow, after two night actions, should be better - catch people up in lies.

I don't see why a partial claim clearing someone should trouble you. Scum aren't in the business of conftowning people, particularly people like kuroi.

[Persivul]

Persiiiiii you don't want me to dignify that post with a response trust me.

Why's pine and dreal scum?

Pine - I've made my arguments. Dreal - not as sure on him, that's why I'm on Pine.

Why do you think shadow is town?

That's bullshit. If I didn't know better I'd call it scummy. I never said shaddow is town. I said he's a bad lynch for today, but a good vig/investigative target for tonight.

[Persivul]

Ugh. I could compromise on Shaddow. I think there's less chance of him being scum than Dunn, but he's gotta go sometime.

VOTE: Shaddow

Flash wagon gogogo

This is the worst post of the game. This needs lynched.

VOTE: Pine

Persi
baby
that's a town post

Asking for a flash wagon with plenty of time left on someone who he just sees as a compromise...that's townie how?

[Persivul]

Sent in a request to talk to Creature.

Why? What do you hope to learn?

[Persivul]

Because it's a waste.

[Persivul]

You can't have your cake and eat it too, scum.

One doesn't need to say

If you're scum...., but if you're town....

every time they post. Most people get it from the context.

[Persivul]

Who thinks shaddowez is scum, and why?

[Persivul]

Andrius wagon isn't happening today because Town. Drealz wagon isn't happening today because Town (your paranoia about his messenger weirdness doesn't counter the Towntell I picked up on). Pine wagon isn't happening today because Town.

I am increasingly certain of Shaddow, not the least because there's extraordinary resistance to his wagon for someone who no one has a Townread on

With your wagons yesterday and today, if you're both town you should be able to learn something from VCA.

[Persivul]

Fuck you.

[Persivul]

You've been after me all game for unusually garbage reasons

Garbage? You admitted the claims were errors and said you were trying to correct a bad situation.

[Persivul]

I did.

[Persivul]

I know I'm town, Culted got cleared for now, Pine is town on my reads. (Honestly no one countering a cleric claim or a doc claim makes me almost certain he is what he says.

I thought that both Pine and Dreal claimed protective, and we've already had one protective flip. This doesn't bother me particularly because the game is role madness on steroids, but your reasoning here is bad.

[Persivul]

Just after I stole the item was when someone cleared.

IIRC I cleared before Culted got the item - that's partly why he got it.

[Persivul]

Calling it - Shaddow is Strahd, scum lose if Strahd is lynched

Highly unlikely.

[Persivul]

About Pine, his claim is cleric - doc, the other protective was a fighter - bodyguard(jasson).

He was bodyguard with BP, and could recharge his BP once at night, which makes him essentially a 2X doc.

[Persivul]

Lynched: shaddowez

Pine: put your protection somewhere better than drealmz.

Is this admission that the govern was fake?

[Persivul]

Now who's claim is crumbly? You don't know what I did last night, I do. Creature was killed by a vig.

I didn't claim anything. Nice try, again, at putting words in my mouth.

Why did I save Shadow? Simple, I used to have a cat named Shadow. Sentimental gesture.

Are you claiming vig or not? This is important. If you vigged Creature, then Pine's claim of protecting shaz needs to be taken more seriously.

We should consider starting tomorrow with a massclaim.

[Persivul]

At night, you may target a player. You hide behind this player for the night, becoming untargetable. However, if you target mafia, you die.

So Kuror must have hidden behind kuroi N1. That explains him saying that kuroi isn't mafia, but isn't guaranteed town either.

[Persivul]

LYNCH! (6) Shaddowez - Culted, Andrius, Pine, kuror0, KuroiXHF, kuror0
(4) Pine - Dunnstral, SlySly, Persivul, drealmerz7
(1) drealmerz7 - Shaziro

With all of Strahd's powers, including an unused dayvig (if I were scum I'd really be salty about shaddow's play), bussing is highly unlikely. People not on Strahd wagon are:

Persivul - cleared by cop
drealmerz - cleared by death

Dunnstral
SlySly
Shaziro - cop guilty

Lynch shaz today, if we have any investigations or vig shots left target dunn & sly tonight, should win game tomorrow.

If Shaz is scum, and Pine healed him N1, then that heal didn't block a shot. That means Creature was a goon scum kill.

[Persivul]

Persivul, despite his loathsome attitude

You wet your pants like a fucking newbie D1. Don't blame me for pushing you.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Hill

Just sounds safest.

[Persivul]

That means you were redirected, Andrius. I'm town.

That would mean scum redirected from town onto themselves. Since Strahd had BP there's apparently a vig. Scum aren't going to redirect onto themselves when there's a vig on the loose.

[Persivul]

Usually all kills happen at the very end of night.

[Persivul]

mod: you might consider sending a reminder to kuroi and culted that the day started

Thanks.

[Persivul]

In case of emergency breakdown of the Golden Rule
If there is really no other option, the traditional recommendation of Natural Action Resolution is to pick whichever of the conflicting actions comes first on the following list, and resolve it first:

Copy
Hide
Bus
Block
Redirect
Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

Ok I'm not losing my mind.
This is fine.

But if you read on...

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.)

It's always been my understanding that this is the norm, and the list you posted above is only used in case of conflict.

Maybe mod will tell us.

mod, does tracking resolve before kills?

[Persivul]

Cool, let's come to a decision on our action and keep this moving. Strahd's castle sounds bad. Anything shaz says is subject to wifom. I'll go lake or hill. I believe there are more people on lake rn so:

VOTE: Lake

[Persivul]

Culted and I are masons. Role PM says that despite bastard elements in the game the masonry is guaranteed. Culted hasn't been in the thread since last day phase. If Culted dies, any items he has pass to me, but it doesn't work the other way around.

[Persivul]

I'm not saying anything more regarding Culted, he can decide what he wants to share when he gets here.

I'm not a class, I'm an NPC - Ezmerelda.

[Persivul]

Right, well I'm not scum so pine is presumably lying. Lynch pine after me, don't not lynch him for something dumb

Fair enough.

[Persivul]

How's about voting Lake?

[Persivul]

We don't know that it is. Just a guess.

[Persivul]

OK. What is it?
UNVOTE: Lake

[Persivul]

What do you get - descriptions of each choice?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Lake

[Persivul]

The dunnstral result is somewhat indirect. Shaziro is a straight forward guilty. I'll go with the group but personally I'd say go with Shaziro first.

VOTE: Shaziro

[Persivul]

Good save, Pine. Again, I realize I am going to be the lynch. I know I am going to flip town. Assuming that I do flip town, what can I provide that will be useful after my flip? Sorry I've been gone all day, I was headed down the road back to college, Spring Semester HOOOOOOOOOO.

Uh, full claim, actions, and full reads list. If I were town about to be lynched, this would seem obvious to me.

[Persivul]

OK, read the rest of the thread and don't see your reads. I've been town about to be lynched before, and I made sure to put up my reads and reasoning. Pretty standard. Stuff like "Where will you be when I flip town?" is pretty standard scum play.

[Persivul]

Mod: Please confirm which part of day we're in and what we're voting on

I suspect Andrius is right, I must've completely missed adventure resolution, but I'll be happier knowing for sure

Nothing wrong with asking for confirmation, but the last VC clearly said it was for lynch. Pretty sure we're in lynch phase, and we didn't get an item to vote on.

[Persivul]

VC:

Shaziro (3) - Pers, Andrius, Sly

Dunn (1) - Shaz

[Persivul]

Culted is MIA. Need Pine and Kuroi on Shaziro.

[Persivul]

Unofficial VC:

Shaziro (4) - Pers, Andrius, Sly, Kuroi

Dunn (1) - Shaz

5 needed to lynch <cough>Pine<cough>

[Persivul]

The odds are in our favor.

Exactly. There are so many roles in this game that we can't be absolutely sure of anything. Your report on the Lake for example. Went bad, but scum might have a power to give you a bad result. But in the case of shaziro:

- He wasn't on the Shaddowez/Strahd lynch
- We have a cop guilty on him from Andrius
- Andrius was on the Shaddowez/Strahd lynch. Further, he gave an inno on me, and that can be verified by culted when he gets back. Point being that Andrius is highly likely to be town.

This is about as good as it's going to get.

[Persivul]

Ooh, spooky!