Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[Ircher]

VOTE: Drealm

[Ircher]

Did I seriously die on Page 1?

Probably not.

It took me awhile to get your RVS vote btw...

[Ircher]

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)

[Ircher]

I'm just waiting for Grey to get in here so that the real entertainment can start.
This party don't start without fuckin Grey around.

THAT'S MY BOY!



Sorry Creats, you're gonna have to contribute as your scum tell is literally flaking as scum.

VOTE: Creature

Flaking? Not in my experience.

[Ircher]

Scum have daychat

It's in the rules.

Ugh.... People don't read....

[Ircher]

It might be one-sided on Pine's side considering he's only made one post showing he's online but stopped saying anything afterwards, however on my end, to give you context to the vote, I recently played a game as an IC and Pine had day talk as scum and manipulated me throughout the game till I sided with him in LyLo and lost the game for town and said I'd vote Pine every game we play together that has daytalk.

I'd love to be able to tell mods in advance what roles to give Pine and I but the likelihood of me playing a game with Pine and I on opposite factions to set up a grudge vote scum theatre just for this game IF we both happened to roll scum would be a god like miracle. However, as much as I wish that was actually true, it is literally a close to impossible scenario, ergo the most logical conclusion is to not treat it as such and wait for more substance throughout the thread before you think you honestly caught 2/X scums when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them.

Kinda feel like the second paragraph is too-much-explanation. As in, trying to justify it too hard.

[Ircher]

They're trying to fake a townslip. I wanna see who's gonna try to fake a townslip next.

WHAT?

[Ircher]

TheRealGin-N-Tonic, there is something I'm failing to understand to do with your current actions in the round. You have voted to lynch Pine, which is all well and done, at this point in the game, 99% of the votes, won't have any ulterior motive behind them whatsoever, which is fine, if you don't have any main reason to be voting for Pine. However, you have currently created a contradiction, when trying to prove that your vote on Pine is legit, and has reasoning. The main problem with it, is as below:

It might be one-sided on Pine's side considering he's only made one post showing he's online but stopped saying anything afterwards, however on my end, to give you context to the vote, I recently played a game as an IC and Pine had day talk as scum and manipulated me throughout the game till I sided with him in LyLo and lost the game for town and said I'd vote Pine every game we play together that has daytalk.

I'd love to be able to tell mods in advance what roles to give Pine and I but the likelihood of me playing a game with Pine and I on opposite factions to set up a grudge vote scum theatre just for this game IF we both happened to roll scum would be a god like miracle. However, as much as I wish that was actually true, it is literally a close to impossible scenario, ergo the most logical conclusion is to not treat it as such and wait for more substance throughout the thread before you think you honestly caught 2/X scums when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them.

You are claiming that it is very unlikely, for both you and Pine to both be scum in the same game, however the roles are chosen randomly, and I believe in a random order. So just for the sake of it, lets say we had 10 towns in this game, and 9 scum, it is unlikely but go with it. If Pine was first to get a role, then you, there'd still be a high chance of you both being scum:
For Pine to be Scum: 9/19
If Pine is Scum, For Gin to be scum: 8/18
Therefore, For both to be Scum: Roughly 21/100

So it wouldn't be a 'god like miracle', ever.

Also another thing, when voting for somebody, you might thing they are suspicious or whatever. Therefore I have a question for you. If you are wanting to vote Pine, and argue for the vote on Pine, why are you suggesting he might not be scum via the 'when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them'???

UNVOTE: Alisae
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

And, the reason for this totally useless nonsense is _____?

4-5 scum is a more logical coonclusion for the scum ratio. 9 scum in a 19p NORMAL game has probably a 1 in a Million chance AT BEST. (Most likely, there is a 0 zero chance of that happening cuz that makes Day 1 LyLo and could still screw town w/ a perfect game if it's multiball)

4/19 * 3/18 = 12 / (152 + 190) = 12 / 342 = 4 / 114 = 2 / 57 or <4% chance.
VOTE: Debi

[Ircher]

Also no I am not an alt, I used to do mafia a lot of another forum is all, new things here such as what OMGUS or WIFOM have been explained to me via Wiki or other sources. This is my first time on this forum.

Creature if it was A ratio of Town:Scum:Other it would probably be 7:6:6:
So it would be:
For pine to be scum: 6/19
If Pine is Scum, For Gin to be Scum: 5/18
For both it is roughly 1/11:
Meaning there is a 1/11 chance they are both Scum, but of course it is just a hypothesis.

PS: Genuinely not an alt, you can ask for my IP if you need some evidence.
PSS: Alisae is a Steam friend

Please stop with your ridiculous assumptions.

[Ircher]

Ircher why don't you attempt to ask where he has played instead of trying to get a sense of what his normalcy is?

Cuz those are insane and illogical ratios, even if you are used to such, for a game that has been approved to be balanced BY 3 people.

[Ircher]

Sorry a little disclaimer before I go into any bigger posts later on:
I have problems with wording sometimes
Also its REALLY hard to read considering how quickly you are posting

Thats fine, but please explain to me where your assumptions cane from.

[Ircher]

TheRealGin-N-Tonic, there is something I'm failing to understand to do with your current actions in the round. You have voted to lynch Pine, which is all well and done, at this point in the game, 99% of the votes, won't have any ulterior motive behind them whatsoever, which is fine, if you don't have any main reason to be voting for Pine. However, you have currently created a contradiction, when trying to prove that your vote on Pine is legit, and has reasoning. The main problem with it, is as below:

It might be one-sided on Pine's side considering he's only made one post showing he's online but stopped saying anything afterwards, however on my end, to give you context to the vote, I recently played a game as an IC and Pine had day talk as scum and manipulated me throughout the game till I sided with him in LyLo and lost the game for town and said I'd vote Pine every game we play together that has daytalk.

I'd love to be able to tell mods in advance what roles to give Pine and I but the likelihood of me playing a game with Pine and I on opposite factions to set up a grudge vote scum theatre just for this game IF we both happened to roll scum would be a god like miracle. However, as much as I wish that was actually true, it is literally a close to impossible scenario, ergo the most logical conclusion is to not treat it as such and wait for more substance throughout the thread before you think you honestly caught 2/X scums when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them.

You are claiming that it is very unlikely, for both you and Pine to both be scum in the same game, however the roles are chosen randomly, and I believe in a random order. So just for the sake of it, lets say we had 10 towns in this game, and 9 scum, it is unlikely but go with it. If Pine was first to get a role, then you, there'd still be a high chance of you both being scum:
For Pine to be Scum: 9/19
If Pine is Scum, For Gin to be scum: 8/18
Therefore, For both to be Scum: Roughly 21/100

So it wouldn't be a 'god like miracle', ever.

Also another thing, when voting for somebody, you might thing they are suspicious or whatever. Therefore I have a question for you. If you are wanting to vote Pine, and argue for the vote on Pine, why are you suggesting he might not be scum via the 'when you're already wrong about at least 1 of them'???

UNVOTE: Alisae
VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

And, the reason for this totally useless nonsense is _____?

4-5 scum is a more logical coonclusion for the scum ratio. 9 scum in a 19p NORMAL game has probably a 1 in a Million chance AT BEST. (Most likely, there is a 0 zero chance of that happening cuz that makes Day 1 LyLo and could still screw town w/ a perfect game if it's multiball)

4/19 * 3/18 = 12 / (152 + 190) = 12 / 342 = 4 / 114 = 2 / 57 or <4% chance.
VOTE: Debi

I agree. Assuming 9 scum right off the bat implies foreknowledge of the setup, which in this case means scum. It's also such an absurd ratio that it would have to mean multiball.

Vote: Debi

And this is also just bad. It's not extra info, it's just absurd assumptions to try to get someone lynched. Huge difference.

[Ircher]

I think Debi just made a dumb assumption rather than showing actual knowledge.

It's a possibility (and right now, Wraith's leap is a lot scummier than Debi's assumptions), but it is still a pretty far-fetched assumption to make, esp. when it's part of the reasoning for voting someone.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Wraith

Your assumption is more egregious than Debi's.

[Ircher]

He also lurked in Micro 600 as town. NAI.

[Ircher]

debi solid town btw

Elaborate?

[Ircher]

I just realized we have to sift through 19 players worth of posts.

@Pine, The maths involved is based on the probability of a sequence of events that would give the desired result.

I'm kinda tired of arguing about the maths about it and it's becoming a waste of time for me.

But, if part of the sequence is known to be true, then wouldn't mean that it is no longer something to consider probability-wise?

FoS: Gin

Something's really off w/ you....

[Ircher]

Also, tip for dealing w/ Creature:

If there is a neighborizer, Creature is a good shot.

Pedit: Not right now. Consider it a gut read.

[Ircher]

Ircher is just asking for people's stances and honestly right now I feel like he's playing his town game. He wants to understand where people are coming from.
Dunn I don't like he said Debi was one of his strong town right away. Seemed like he was trying to buddy Debi.
Wraith is currently gut. He's probably also one of my "gun to my head town" reads.

Haven't got any bad vibes from Dunn to be honest. Tone feels genuine.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing from Ircher other than his question to Dunn a while ago. I did see a very bad push on Debi though that makes me very hesitant to lean town on him.

It wasn't a bad push. A misguided / exaggerated push perhaps, but I had fair reasons to make it. In the end, Wraith looked bad with his bad jump on the fledgling wagon.

[Ircher]

You walk into a 19 player game and complain about having to read 7 pages?

This^

But I liked the content in the post.

[Ircher]

I can understand the frustration to be honest. Not everything needs a response and I wish more people on MS understood that.

Also Echo's frustration seems genuine to me currently. He is probably town.

I felt it was a bit over-the-top, but again, the content imo was more important anyway.

[Ircher]

I'm going to express my opinions and reads now:
Town:
Lil Uzi Vert

Scum:
Alisae
Zachstralkita
Dunnstral
Pine

Other:
Gin
ssbm_Kyouko
Ircher

The reason why I think Lil Uzi Vert is Town:
Thus far, throughout the game, he has spent a lot of time being passive, asking questions, but trying not to get attention onto himself. However, the reason why he doesn't come across as mafia to me for this, is due to the fact he has been giving advice and opinions in order to improve people's arguments e.g. 'I think you should look for people trying to pocket you. As in people trying to make you TR them.'

The reason why I think Alisae is Scum:
All through the game he has been accusing people of Buddying. Although I'm new to the concept of it, I think I have a good enough understanding to judge people due to it. You seem to be acting rather hypocritically, in regards to Buddying. You claim that Dunn is trying to Buddy with me, through saying that he thinks I'm definitely town. The way that you are buddying is in other ways, ways which don't affect the game much. For example:
'The image I posted is something I know Kyouko wouldn't ignore.'
'I know we both like Higurashi. But Let's be real, why are you buddying me?'
With regards to the second quotation, why are you claiming that Zach is trying to buddy with you? If you go back to earlier pages, you are the one initially trying to spark the Buddying. You did this via posting pictures and gifs, making comments towards Zach saying that you both like it. This is more likely to be Buddying than your claims of people Buddying, in my opinion. In relevance to the first quote, there was no reason why you had to say 'The image I posted is something I know Kyouko wouldn't ignore.' This comes across as buddying, due to the fact that when he turned up, into the game, you instantly reminded him of it, trying to get his attention. There was no reason for this, as you already stated that it was an RVS vote, so re-voting just for his attention, comes across as Buddying, at least to me it does. In addition to this, why didn't you supply any evidence behind your readings? No matter who it is, or what role you think they are, there will be at least a sentence, or the like, which will sway you in either direction. You can't just go off of feeling, as atmosphere can't be portrayed via the internet.
VOTE: Alisae

Why I think Zach is a Scum:
The main reasons behind this, is due to Alisae. I believe that it is very likely for them to be doing a Scum Theater. For example:
'Lets be real votes on Alisae are pretty low effort'
This phrase was likely used in order to subtly reduce Alisae's risks. Zach gave no reasons behind this, nor evidence to support it, instead said 'I'm just stating facts'. What I'm confused about, is why nobody had picked up on this, especially not Alisae. Alisae had shown that he is keen of Zach throughout this current game, which is clear, as explained above. Due to Alisae's response only being 'fair', I believe it is deductible that he is hiding something to do with Zach, whatever it be. Also, due to Alisae's response, anybody reading it, would feel less suspicious of Zach, due to a lot of people TR Alisae. I strongly believe they are both Scum, and that this is a Scum theatre.
FoS Zach

Why I think Dunnstral is Scum:
As you guys would have read before, Dunnstral has claimed thinking that I am definitely town. I believe that he is trying to Buddy me, due to the fact that he briefly tried to convince others. As grateful as I am, I do think he is Scum because of it, and here is why. If you go off of the basis that Dunnstral is trying to Buddy with me, you will come across the question which is why. There would be no reason for a Town with no threats against them, or any chances of risks, to Buddy with somebody they believe to be town. However, if a Scum were to try and Buddy with somebody who they knew wasn't Scum, then it benefits Dunnstrall.

Why I think Pine is Scum:
He has been too conservative of his opinions, and is lurking similarly to Creature, yet hypocritically, as he has shown us that he thinks lurking is bad, then proceeds to do it himself. I'm also suspicious due to the random prodding he does for unnecessary information.

The reasons for Gin and Ircher are the same, in the 3rd faction:
They are both playing passively, getting information which is fine, and stuff, I won't complain about that. It instead is how they are pressurising for it. Due to this, I doubt they could be mafia, as they have attention on themselves. Also I doubt they could be town, as they are risking a bit too much when they push for responses, in my opinion at least.

The reason I think ssbm is part of the 3rd faction:
It is similar to Gin and Ircher but instead he has taken less risks thus far, but he hasn't show any interest in the Town's well being yet, that is why I doubt he is a Town.

Suspicions list from Highest to Lowest:
Alisae
Zach
Pine
Dunn
ssbm
Gin/Ircher
Lil Uzi Vert

(People who aren't on these lists, I don't have full opinions on thus far)

And what about Wraith?

Also, I do have a read on Alisae and it isn't scum right now for ~reasons~.

[Ircher]

I skipped the first 10 pages. Someone who's town tell me where to vote

Gonna have to find my meta w/ you.

Bad entrance.

[Ircher]

@Debi, read on wraith?

also what the hell is this buddying thing...

EDIT: We shouldn't lynch either of them rb lol
EDIT 2: what the hell is flashwagon

Some Terminology:

Singleball = 1 Town vs. (1 Mafia OR 1 Werewolf) Faction
Multiball = Multiple Scum Factions
Sometimes, SK are considered multiball, other times they aren't. I agree w/ the former definition though.

Flashwagon = Wagon that forms very quickly and suddenly.

[Ircher]

Gin's reasoning for his RVS vote felt genuine. A little annoyed that it took him a while to stop arguing about math though.

I don't really like the Wraith wagon right now so I'm going to take a look Alisae's ISO and see if I can get behind rb. My vote for Creature isn't doing anything right now.

What do you dislike? The wagon composition? Or do you think Wraith is town (and why)?

[Ircher]

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)

Oh nvm, that does not confirm singleball.

What indicated the possibility of multiball that made you look for confirmation of single all?

I think you slipped.

I thiink you are reading in too much. As I commented, it was badly worded and I could see it getting misinterpreted.

[Ircher]

Debi, there aren't many non-town there. Also, the only possible factions are town, mafia/werewolves and SK.

And aliens.
And cults
And tons of other third-party factions

Not in a normal.

[Ircher]

oh forgot I was still on Alisae
VOTE: Wraith

Why is he your top scum read right now? I think I'm missing something with him as well.

Am I the only one that found his reasoning for voting Debi just stupid and too careless to be scum?

Nah, that would apply to Debi. In Wraith's case, that was a super opportunistic leap.

[Ircher]

LOL!!!! I REMEMBER NOW!!!! THE WORD IM LOOKING FOR WAS 'NORMAL' ALL ALONG!!! SILLY ME!!! LOL!!!!!!

grey is added to lynchpool

Rb can die now.

[Ircher]

The best part of this wagon is that no one is giving me anything so I can't defend myself.

Guess what...?

VOTE: Alisae

Bad wagon. Choose an actual scum. Not a maybe scum, maybe lynchbait townie.

[Ircher]

The problem is that your reads on Dunn and Ircher don't make me think that's the case. Mostly Ircher.

For giving Ircher a gut read, and Dunn a scumread, who needs more time and legit has no content.

I think he does not have enough content to provide a decent read, ergo scum.

Logic leap

Scummy Behavior != Scum.

Logical leaps are not necessarily made by scum or even scum-motivated. (Bit hypocritical of me concerning my earlier reaction to Debi's numbers, but everyone has their biased moments)

[Ircher]

Final reads before I go take a shower, go to sleep, and then wake up to find out that I got lynched.

Town: rb, Grey, Uzi, Gin, Pine, Echo, Debi, Zach
Scum: Kyouko, Creature, Wraith, Dunn, and maybe Ircher
Null: Everyone else.

You are too easily manipulated.

[Ircher]

{Alisae, Wraith, rb, Creature}

I'm happy voting anywhere in there.

Alisae and to a lesser extent Creature are very bad D1 lynches, esp. in a Large. I'm fine w/ the other two though.

[Ircher]

A man posting spiderman memes is so obv town we don't even need to question his motives.

can we please lynch gin and not alisae

Okay, rb, real talk. Tell me why Gin is scum. You keep talking about your murder priapism for him, but haven't said why yet, which is frustrating because I have a pretty strong TR on him.

I'm 100% okay with an Alisae lynch, even if it's a pretty quick one. I'm recently kind of coming around to the notion that long days, especially D1s, are completely counterproductive, so a lynch of Aliscum with some policy motive peppered in suits me just fine.

i doubt debi is scum unless rly good, but that kind of play is really hard to replicate as scum for an entire game so we'll see

Actually, I was thinking about this while playing Heroes of the Storm. Given offsite origin, I'm wondering whether all that wallposting and badmath is what passes for good scum smokescreening over there. Bad, pretty baseless reads covered by gaudy, overtly showy attempts to show "LOOK AT ME GAMESOLVING" suggests scum in context. Trying too hard.

VOTE: RB

No. Bad Gin. Stop it.

Going to bed. I look forward to spending ALL DAMN MORNING catching up to you spammy fuckers.

PEdit: OH LOOK. There were SEVEN posts while writing this. How unsurprising.

This reads as scum -- PLing what is likely lynchbait AND an associative tell with Rb whom I'm pretty sure is scum.

The Alisae would be okay if it weren't for the fact Pine is trying to conduct a QL on Alisae.

[Ircher]

More appeasement.

Pro tip: Next time you want to be mistaken for Town, stick to your guns a little more.

Perhaps, but I'm still reading it as more likely to be lynchbait-type appeasement, not scum-appeasement.

[Ircher]

Okay i want everyone to stop focussing on alisae right now because if she's scum she's dead. Parse the other slots too, anyone who just uselessly tunnels on alisae rn is getting the murdercock tomorrow

???
Didn't you scumread Alisae earlier? (I didn't check btw, just double-checking here)

[Ircher]

what the fuck 20 pages
this is what happens when i go to sleep as soon as the game opens and go to work as soon as i wake up
prepare for one million walls

beetlejuice

Is a horrible scumtell.

[Ircher]

For anyone

What do you think about Human Sequencer?

Town who thinks they know everything when they really dont

[Ircher]

Don't come with stuff like "pro-town" "anti-town" "helpful" "like you're playing right now"

rb - idk
Alisae - scummy af
ssbm_Kyouko - townlean, post moar
TheRealGin-N-Tonic - idk
Lil Uzi Vert - town
Gamma Emerald - post moar, likely flake slot tbh
Zachstralkita - literally nothing
Creature - scummy
drealmerz7 - lol
Ircher - towny
Pine - towny kinda
Human Sequencer - lol
-Grey- - idk
Wraith - scummy af
SlickDilinger - great post my dude
Debi - town af
EchoVision - scummy
Dunnstral - idk can't ever read dunn fuck you
All Alone - lol

Feel free to ask my reasoning on any of these, if I miss it, ask again.

Point one scumread here that doesn't fit the category of "lynchbait"

Lynchbait doesnt mean they arent scum tho

Blatant and unnecessary discrediting.

Lynchbait should NEVER be lynched D1 unless D1 is LyLo which it clearly isn't. That's a recipe for ML if you do, even if there is the off chance they are scum.

[Ircher]

Scummy is scummy

But scummy != scum.

Your point?

[Ircher]

Okay then:
I hate being scum
I hate and react pretty badly for pressure as either alignment
If I am pressured as town I usually attack someone who's pressuring me because I believe scum wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to lynch me as I am harder to lynch later in the game

Add : "Creature responds better in private neighborhoods than in the main thread" to this list.

[Ircher]

Why scum? Why not lynchbait?

And maybe Alisae is scum, but you cannot tell whether or not a lynchbait is scum within 36 hours of a game starting. Lynchbait players are generally bad D1 lynches cuz most of the time, they end up as misunderstood town who played in a way that people associate w/ scum.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Rb
Wraith wagon has seemed to die and Rb is more than competent, and this behavior is unacceptable based on what I have seen from Rb.

[Ircher]

?

[Ircher]

I wasnt going at you lol

I still don't understand the last sentence though. Could you please rephrase so it is clearer? (Particularly the part starting with "yourself..."

[Ircher]

rb - idk
Alisae - scummy af
ssbm_Kyouko - townlean, post moar
TheRealGin-N-Tonic - idk
Lil Uzi Vert - town
Gamma Emerald - post moar, likely flake slot tbh
Zachstralkita - literally nothing
Creature - scummy
drealmerz7 - lol
Ircher - towny
Pine - towny kinda
Human Sequencer - lol
-Grey- - idk
Wraith - scummy af
SlickDilinger - great post my dude
Debi - town af
EchoVision - scummy
Dunnstral - idk can't ever read dunn fuck you
All Alone - lol

Feel free to ask my reasoning on any of these, if I miss it, ask again.

So how are me and wraith on the same team again? How are Echo and Wraith on the same team again?

Tbf, it hasn't been proved (nor disproved) that this game is singleball.

[Ircher]

Alisae is literally claiming lynchbait and using it as a bargaining chip.
Does that recontextualize any of her earlier posts as 'blatantly bad scum' to anybody else, instead of 'dodgy new town'?
It doesn't to me, because I've known it was blatantly bad scum since the beginning of eternity.

Nah, this just upgrades Alisae from lynchbait to self-aware lynchbait.

[Ircher]

Scummy is scummy

But scummy != scum.

Your point?

Oh ikay so we don't lynch scummy players in this game we lynch towny ones?

Yeah nice

Can you please TRY to play pro-town?

Motive > Actions.

People can look towny but have a scum motive.
People can look scummy but have a town motive.

Th key to it all is a 5 letter word: T-H-I-N-K.

[Ircher]

Zachstralkita is town.

This

[Ircher]

681 --- TL and wrong vote -- rb is the better vote

[Ircher]

Scummy is scummy

But scummy != scum.

Your point?

Oh ikay so we don't lynch scummy players in this game we lynch towny ones?

Yeah nice

False dichotomy.

So if you don(t lynch scummy players what are you gonna lynch?

Did I ever say VOTE: rb btw?

[Ircher]

Okay I'll take your word for it.

You miscounting votes as a longshot way of delaying an Alisae wagon until derail while simultaneously being on the wagon as a means of distancing was theory I had in my head but it was admittedly a

really

tinfoil one.

Likely case is Alisae is used to "With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch" from experience with minis.

[Ircher]

Hey, all! I'm excited and glad to be here (mhsmith game, #200 w/19players

, many of which I'm glad to be playing with - fuckyes!)

I'm not lurking, I simply haven't read but a few pages yet, decided to make a post. I'm only going to read this game when I have over an hour to dedicate soley to it (unless less is necessary to be caught up and present, but at least until I'm caught up and present, I'm not half-assing this game from the start and then picking up pieces later. I'm doing it right, from the go, and I'm slightly behind, so bear with me.)

*know* that I will be giving this game my A-game 100% - this means multiple word documents with lots of notes and my own personal vote-tracking method (if at any time you wish to see my vote-trackings, just ask and I'll post them - warning, they're kind of messy and take a little understanding on how to read, but it works for me and I'm totally willing to share for anyone who wants to see)

I very much look forward into getting into it.

bongsaway

Totally usless post. LAMIST was a good way to describe it actually.

[Ircher]

VOTE: drealmerz7

That post is like a literal scumclaim.

No, it was a NAI LAMIST post. I'm reserving judgement until he posts something of substance.

[Ircher]

Alisae 168
Creature 86
TheRealGin-N-Tonic 85
-Grey- 62
Lil Uzi Vert 60
rb 57

Ircher 45
Human Sequencer 33
Dunnstral 28
Pine 27
Zachstralkita 25
Wraith 20

Debi 16
EchoVision 13
ssbm_Kyouko 9
All Alone 2
SlickDilinger 1
drealmerz7 1

I would deeply appreciate it if the bolded would shut the everloving fuck up a bit. We're barely more than a day into this game, and 30 pages in. That is ridiculous. I'm not asking you to stop contributing, or to start lurking, I'm just requesting that you be the slightest bit considerate. Some of us have real lives - jobs, spouses, children, and obligations. We are simply not capable of meaningfully keeping up with a game that moves this fast. Posting like an ADHD rabbit on speed is not helpful, it's obstructive. It isn't participating, it's excluding. Please take a step back, take a deep breath, stop bickering almost exclusively among the four or five of you, and wait for responses from the rest of us.

That said, the people in italics need to step it the fuck up. I get that it's the holidays. I get that you have shit to do. I work a 50-70 hour work week in emergency medicine. If you can't keep up with a fast game, replace out. If you can, do it.

Get used to it, it's a large.

[Ircher]

don't let this guy get away with naked voting

VOTE: All Alone

A bit impulsive? Why is this lynch lynch better than rb (or insert your scumread here if you dont scumread rb)

[Ircher]

Okay well mhsmith is away but I'm innocent child and I will now analyze my McStratagem Burger results

Breadcrumb
Please

[Ircher]

Okay well mhsmith is away but I'm innocent child and I will now analyze my McStratagem Burger results

Breadcrumb
Please

?

Where's your breadcrumb for being IC?

[Ircher]

Okay well mhsmith is away but I'm innocent child and I will now analyze my McStratagem Burger results

Breadcrumb
Please

Why does that matter now? Mod confirmed.

Don't question it, just go with it!

[Ircher]

ALSO:

?????????????????????????????

?????????????????

????????????????????????????????????

Que Sera?

English please.

[Ircher]

why the fuck would an IC breadcrumb when the mod is gonna confirm it ROFL

So people believe them in that short space of time before the mod can comfirm them.

[Ircher]

dreal is a very good scum leader though, With daytalk, he's fairly dangerous.

Pedit: Theres a bunch of people who lolhammer.

Also:

VOTE:

RB

Pedit2: Show me the breadcrumb.

[Ircher]

dreal is a very good scum leader though, With daytalk, he's fairly dangerous.

Pedit: Theres a bunch of people who lolhammer.

Also:

VOTE:

RB

Pedit2: Show me the breadcrumb.

DO YOU HAVE A DEATHWISH?

Yes

[Ircher]

Ircher just did a really terrible reaction test.

Back to scum,

You caught me!

UNVOTE:

Partly reaction test, partly trolling.

Will note that the original post was serious cuz I hadnt read the mods post when I made it.

[Ircher]

Rb made it pretty clear he was playing super antitown on purpose to avoid the nk. Thats why -- when I know rb can play bette.

[Ircher]

I learned (or rather, reinforced) that Alisae plays very survivalistically and never examines the why to a post. Aka, Alisae is still lynchbait.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher

Just noticed this....

[Ircher]

VOTE: Alone

[Ircher]

For wagoning no content AA?

Yea theres better lynches and you are enabling low effort votes votes that are easy for scum to make and hide in and the rationale that town players use for this low effort lynch will act as subterfuge for said scum players

risk vs reward

Well, I'd be okay w/ a Pine lynch as well.

[Ircher]

The top are town, the middle is nulls and the bottom is the scummers

Readslists will be another day, not today, maybe not even this week.

Still, at a glance:

Rb - Confirmed Town
Grey, Zach, Human, Creature - Town

Alisae, Drealm - Null

Debi, Echo - Neutral Leaning Town
Gin, Wraith - Neutral Leaning Scum

Pine, All Alone - Leaning Scum

Thats off the top of my head btw.

[Ircher]

i like wraith now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: RB

I can dig it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: rb

FAIL
I was looking at the mod posts for VC info and noted votes on the IC.
Terrible.

FAIL

Scum post.

[Ircher]

Thanks for the prod reminder, I’m here.
Only been trying to watch things unfold.
Within this space it seems like there are already lots of strong personalities scum-hunting, so I don’t want to get in the way.
Not planning to change my vote until I’m more confident about it; I like drealmerz7’s work based on seeing more of his analysis and posts, but I don’t often have strong reads during day ones.

Thanks for scumclaiming.
VOTE: Slick

[Ircher]

Hi have a good idea! Why don't we flashwagon this?
VOTE: SlickDilinger
Or someone can do a meta dive real quick, either work for me.

I'm the ninth person you've laid a vote against on day one.

And? That alone means nothing.

[Ircher]

I know what's SD's getting at but I don't care about that right now.

SD

, it seems like you've taken quite a bit of notes about this game, who do you think are D7's partners?

Unless I missed something, didn't he say he was townreading drealm?

[Ircher]

My beef with Alisae. This will largely be me copy-pasting all the bullet points from my two compilations with maybe some extra commentary. I just want to put it all in one post.

A* Alisae not reading the rules and voting Gin in #46/48 for mentioning scum daychat is another strike against him. It wouldn't look bad by itself but combined with the more egregious posts by him (JFC I keep writing "her" because of the username and avatar)...
B* Alisae townreads me in #206 and #215, then scumreads and votes for me in #239. I made no new posts between #206 and #239, the only thing that changed is she talked to Echo. And in light of her future voting patterns, she seems to be getting in on a growing wagon on the ground.
C* Alisae gets a scumread on Dunnstral early on for weak reasons (#225) and continues to cling to it over time without wavering and without giving further reasons to maintain the scumread (#363, #409). As much as Alisae spams the thread she does very little to justify or explain her reads in general. I point to #409 in particular where she posts "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched I'll just post my reads with absolutely no context bye now." It reeks of falseness
D* In #434 Alisae labels Debi VI without that much to go on and then draws scumreads based on that label. Inherently flawed logic leading to flawed conclusions which looks like fake scumhunting to me. This is the difference between players who get legit scumreads on me (Grey, Ircher, Echo) and players who don't, and is another big part of why I strongly scumread Alisae
E* Alisae's #450 is pretty egregious to me. She townreads Echo for his apparent frustration at seven new pages overnight in his #231. Yet she doesn't react whatsoever to other players similarly reacting to sudden surges in thread activity - myself (#481), HS (#487), GE (#1026). Why does Echo get this special treatment? I'll also bring back up the incident where she 180'd on her read of me between #206 and #239, where I made no new posts in between those but what she did do was talk to and sheep Echo. Again, it appears to me that Alisae is coming up with bullshit reasons to read people and that way she appears to be scumhunting, but it reality she's doing nothing and joining the most popular wagon of the moment.
F* Has so little conviction in her scumread of me that she'll flip to Pine after a short exchange, and then flips back to me after another, and then flips back to Pine YET AGAIN after another. Again, her scumread on me coming not from herself but from Echo. Oh, and with more "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched overnight" bullshit after the re-vote. This isn't real scumhunting folks, this is the appearance of scumhunting.
G* Essentially claims VI after several players have called her lynchbait and continues playing that up even now.
H* Joins the flashwagon on All Alone (with Dunnsral, someone she allegedly has a scumread on).
I* Openly talks about a pressure wagon on Pine, defeating the purpose of a pressure wagon. Again, not scumhunting, but appearing to scumhunt.
J* Joins the flashwagon on Ircher (WITH THE GUY SHE WAS SCUMREADING HUNDRED POSTS AGO)
K* Rejoins the flashwagon on All Alone (more justifiable, but again, if she scumreads All Alone WHY DID SHE NOT IMMEDIATELY CALL FOUL ON THE IRCHER FLASHWAGON?)
L* OMGUS scumreads drealmerz for scumreading her in #1049
M* Pushes yet another flashwagon on Slick

Let's check the voting record - when they happened, who was already on the wagon, and whether or not anyone voted for the same target immediately after she did:

1. Kyouko (#6, RVS)
2. Gin (#46, Creature #23, All Alone #42, probably still RVS)
3. Creature (#63, Gin #41, Pine #85, probably still RVS)
4. Kyouko (#175, probably still RVS)
5. Wraith (#239, Ircher #146, Echo #231, Gin #241, sheeping Echo)
6. Pine (#466, knee-jerk)
7. Wraith (#470, Still Ircher + Echo, Kyouko #303, still a popular wagon)
8. Pine (#474, Creature #497, knee-jerk)
9. All Alone (#820, Dunnstral #816, Creature #818, flashwagon)
10. Pine (#853, Zach #852, Creature #855, Kyouko #890, flashwagon)
11. Ircher (#912, rb #910, All Alone #914, flashwagon)
12. All Alone (#933, Dunnstral #816, Echo #864, Uzi #923, rb #925, Creature #929, Ircher #964, flashwagon)
13. Pine (#976, Zach #852, Kyouko #890, actually a consistent scumread)
14. Slick (#1067, Creature #1076, Uzi #1090, starts a new flashwagon)

So the tl;dr gist is:

1. Alisae town- or scumreads players for extremely shallow and arbitrary reasons or for reasons she fails to adequately explain.
2. Alisae's vote changes practically every hour, primarily jumping on the most popular bandwagon of the moment.
3. Therefore, Alisae is not genuinely scumhunting or trying to contribute, and both her reads and votes both lack any sort of conviction or depth as a result. My conclusion is that she is scum trying to appear to be active and scumhunting but trying to blend into the background of wagons to conveniently shift off blame later.

Lets look through this cuz I have a few issues with it.
A) It's really a null thing. Plus, scum are GENERALLY more cautious than town. Not reading the rules tend to be a laziness tell than anything.
B) Really don't see the issue here. Well, I do, but I also believe that there are reasonable reasons for Alisae to change reads. That plus meta doesn't make it look that off.
C) Meh. Depends on the player; pretty sure this isn't a scumtell for Alisae.
D) Fair eough I guess
E) I don't disagree w/ the facts and your analysis; I disagree with your conclusio because this is onc again, not too surprising from Alisae. Look further than knee-deep please.

Annotate

. (I don't annotate that much tbh, but it would actually be a very useful skill for mafia.)
F) It once again does look scummy, but is it truly scum-motivated? My opinion is no.
G) Self-aware lynchbait can be town as much as they are scum, You can look through some of my old gmes; there are plenty of examples where I have been town self-aware lynchbait. Bad generalizations are bad for mafia; one-size-does-not-fit-all.
H) You're going to have to get into more detail if you want to convince people that that is indicative of scum. Teamwork/Compromise/Cooperation is just as important as being a skilled scumhunter.
I) Null.
J) Typical Alisae behavior imo
K) Fair point, but minor. People don't tend to read closely and stuff like that happens.
L) OMGUS is a very bad scumtell and like beetlejuicing, it shoukd be cast into an eternal void of oblivion.
M) Still sounds like typical Alisae imo

My question for you:

What is the scum motivation for this?

Why does Alisae vote strangely? Why does Alisae contradict himself frequently? You have to make inferences, draw conclusions, and most importantly, think. One suggestion is to annotate. It will help you look past the words and towards the true meaning behind it all. Another thing you should consider doing is research -- look up and read some of Alisae games. Maybe they will change your perception (and if they don't, then you now have a way to explain why this behavior seems scum-motivated). Those who don't believe in meta are foverer condemned to mislynching lynchbait players because more oft than not, lynchbait players are going to draw town and play relatively the same regardless of alignment. Meta forms the guidelines to reading player; it doesn't make individual actions towntells or scumtells (that would be trust tells imo btw), but it does give you a feel for the player. Use it like any other tool.

[Ircher]

Didn't you use to wall in your first couple of Newbie games?

lol couple. I only finished 1 newbie.
You mean my very first game? Yeah but then Tywin Lannister happened and TierShift was like "Walls are bad."

Swear it feels like you completed 10

I don't mind walls as long as they're well formatted. No one seems to do that anymore though.

I generally number my points, but aside from that .....

[Ircher]

Scum have daychat, Pine can fuck off

VOTE: Pine

A grudge vote that's what

It's a fair Cop.

Dayvig Gin

DIE SUCKA

did you just dayvig the cop

,,,,Are you really that far behind?

[Ircher]

You, know what, given the present info, Debi is obvtown now. She would not have stated 9 scum if she knew how many scum there were.
Hooray for derptown.

What??? Could be derpscum as well. Null.

[Ircher]

Alisae is still Null leaning Town.

[Ircher]

Nope. I just know lynchbait when I see one.

[Ircher]

You, know what, given the present info, Debi is obvtown now. She would not have stated 9 scum if she knew how many scum there were.
Hooray for derptown.

What??? Could be derpscum as well. Null.

If she were scum she very likely would have given a realistic scumteam size.

No, that is the essence of WIFOM and a logical fallancy.

[Ircher]

since rb flipped IC you've been

very

quiet about his scumread on you. (It's still there)












s/o mhs by the way, that has to be an assload of work to link the fucking votes to where they actually happened

(It's really less work han you think... Still a nice feature though)

[Ircher]

Actually, I really love this question. Tell me the scum motivation in wanting everyone to contribute?

Also tell me the pro-town agenda with allowing lurkers to continue playing throughout the game?

Let me tell you exactly why, as scum, lurkers are your best friend. It's because those slots don't do anything, and when it gets close to the middle-end game, you can easily slam lurkers for mislynches because they just don't defend well or slow play to hide under the radar while TvT argue all game.

The best strategy in a large is to kill the loudest voices and leave the quietest alive. When town is full of quiet people, the scum voice is strong and town won't be able to communicate effectively to figure out the truth and bam you have a win.

I honestly don't see any logical reasoning as to the benefit of allowing people to just be part of the game and spectate. You give them a free pass because they don't contribute and that's just horse shit reasoning for any defense on a player.

Really feels like you contradict yourself every sentence. Please rewrite this less ambiguously.

[Ircher]

In reply to a few other questions/comments from before:

Yes it's been a while since I've played a game. My style here is different from the past; I'm trying to apply some lessons from playing the game since last visiting this forum.

Regarding reads, I'll try and contribute more as they come, but I really do find that day two is when things make sense for me. Day one seems to be a lot of big egos duking it out while scum hunting. That's cool, but I'm just not going to end up being one of big egos. That said, Drealmerz7's first post rubbed me the wrong way with his atypical eagerness, but I've appreciated his further comments since then so I am going to change my vote to reflect this tentatively. Alisae seems to be pretty about shooting first and then not worrying about asking questions, but that can be a strategy. However, I'm ultimately swayed by Zachstralkita's argument and position regarding TheRealGin-N-Tonic so I will support it.

VOTE: TheRealGin-N-Tonic

I know this might not be a lot to offer while there is a wagon gathering for me, but that's what I've got. If I'm knocked out during Day 1, I accept that as a part of establishing culture and trimming incompatible players during the early game, even if they are townies.

Clarify something for me: has Drealmerz actually made more than 1 post? Quote it for me please.

[Ircher]

why would I 180 my read on Alisae when she's easy to lynch if I was scum?

Just want to point out that Alisae is easy to scumread but not easy to lynch.

[Ircher]

zach is town, rb is town, and they're both pretty on-ball. gin himself is getting looked at right now

Ummm, when was Zach confirmed town?

Zachstralkita - literally nothing

This is what your entire ISO had to say about Zach, so what do you know that I dont?

While semantic in nature, these are valid questions.

[Ircher]

I think it would be ideal to lynch the lurkers early.
1. If we leave them alive and they're scum, town will forget about them.
2. If we leave them alive and they're town, when it's something like MyLo or LyLo, scum has a giant power.
3. They aren't contributing anyway, while the most active players are more clear about their thought process.
4. Who said they don't give info? We can see who was trying to lynch All Alone but not SlickDinger, etc.

I can get behind this. I used to have a lynch-all-lurkers policy!

[Ircher]

free townpoints to whoever says, "rb is the best player in the universe"

rb is the best player in the universe

[Ircher]

y everyone hate drealmerz?

Cuz he was excited for the thread yet is lurking big-time.
VOTE: Drealm

[Ircher]

How many people here besides Ircher thinks RB is scum?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JdMDi0aaHv8

Also watch that, this is exactly how I feel about RB and I's relationship. Of course, RB is playing Vegeta. You'll also completely understand my reference because its almost a direct quote lmao

Hey, thanks for misrepping me, even if this is a joke. I already explained my behavior concerning that.

[Ircher]

Hi Human Sequencer, what are your top4 lynch choices?

Hi Creature, what are your top4 lynch choices?

Hi Lil Uzi Vert, what are your top4 lynch choices?

Thanks townblock, we are going to win this gaem.

SlickDinger
Gin
Ircher
Gamma Emerald

Hi Creature, what are your top4 lynch choices?

drealmerz7
SlickDinger
All Alone
Gamma Emerald

If you don't want total lurkers:

ssbm_Kyouko
Pine
Zachstralkita
Dunnstral

Everybody but -Grey- I'm decent to strongly townreading.

Why Zach and Dunn?

Wait, why and when did you scumread me?

[Ircher]

No
Still on page eight, rl and other things got in the way

Catch up and do it at a faster pace.

[Ircher]

Also any questions comments you'd like to make, please ask them in the next 20-30 minutes because after that, I'm going to go hide in a hole until I finish my reads lists with details

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

11 meters/sec

Scum response.

Town would have asked, "African swallow or European swallow?"

[Ircher]

Ircher, is it a problem that I have so many people I want to have rope Day 1?
If only we had a vig.

1-2 is too little.
3-4 is borderline low.
5-7 is prob. a healty number.
8-9 is borderline high.
10+ is too high.

And it also depends on how well developed your reads are -- surface reads are not very useful and having many surface-level scumreads is prob. a bad thing.

[Ircher]

Actually SlickDinger is reaaaalllyyy scum. He's just making shit up.

Thats what I thought too, but I wasnt sure if it was an expression issue or that.

[Ircher]

Nah gamma there's really no rush. You get a free pass for today because there's a decent amount of other lynches available

I think it's scummy to be acting like gamma needs to catch up immediately

Why? 50 pages and he's on page 8. Thats ridiculous. Large Normals DO produce on average at least 5 pages every 24 hours.

[Ircher]

I mean, he's not my top prio rn, so I'll give him the time, but quite frankly, how will the night phase give him more time to catch up?

[Ircher]

catching up...

[Ircher]

You scum read me with a vote saying that you read other people's words and said that's good enough for a vote.

Your reasoning was actually fucked up when posting and I need to get this straight with you.

You said you didn't like Usi, myself, and Creature which, excluding me, is part of the town block and then you go on to say the only person you really hate on the wagon is Dunn which leads to the logical conclusion that you would vote him but I got the vote.

There's a logic leap there and I'm just confused as to why you wouldn't vote your top scum read? Hate=thinks is most scummy for clarification as to why I said scum read instead of hate

I really don see the problem with scumreading someone who is a part of a town bloc. Just cuz they are in a townbloc doesnt necessarily mean they're town. I also think your assumption concerning hate is a stretch.

The problem I'm still having with Alisae is there seems to be next to no chance of determine his alignment because he has zero conviction in what he does. Reads do change (sometimes drastically), but when you change your reads every 3 minutes just cuz someone tells you to, then no one will know your true stance on various issues, etc.

[Ircher]

Reaction Test.

Yep!
I point out it's a reaction test in post 1407

Yeah.... NO. This isn't going to escape notice. Just cuz you claim its one doesnt make it one (though you can judge actions that result from it); this sounds more like scum trying to avoid attention. Having hard time describing why this is not a town post, but I think people get the gist.

[Ircher]

I come from a HS where mafia is not the main focus of the forums, the ppl who play mafia there all have regular real forum interactions with each other and know each other pretty well (to varying degrees) from that, AND it's a very small group, not a lot of fluctuation among players from game to game (and only enough ppl EVER for 1 game at a time.) I've played over 10 games with many of these people, and they don't know what the fuck to make of me hardly EVER. ESPECIALLY on D1!!! get off it, you can't base anything on me based on anything by me except for MAYYYYYYYBE genuine rage, cause it's hard to fake (I do do an okay job sometimes though but most often it is genuine and I don't attempt to fake that because it's hard.)

Do you concede that this isn't a valid point without evidence?

concur with this.

[Ircher]

creature going after lurkers on D1 when there is this much content and viable lynch candidates is SCUMMMMMMMMMY asfuck

it's fucking D1 in a 19p

OHNO LURKERS

seriously? yahhhhhhh

Lurkers arent bad lynches. Better than mislynching lynchbait (eg: Alisae) generally imo.

[Ircher]

This is a scum response.
Lynch this.

haha
and WHY is it a scum response?

because it's not

and if I copy/pasted every time that has been said by ppl and put it in my signature it'd take up a whole fucking page-lenght!!!

if you're town, you're just wayoff on me and just stop trying for now, if you're scum, you don't know what you're getting into and just stop trying, now

Cuz, your point is completely invalid if you ban access to the evidence. Refusing to concede your point after getting called out on that is scum-motivated. You are avoiding the point.

[Ircher]

creature and human sequencer be like scummers who thought they were biting into fruit and realized it was meat!!!

I just modded a game w/ scum you. I'll look back through it sooner or later, but my impression is this is scum!Drealm.

VOTE: Drealm

[Ircher]

Oh okay.
tbh I'm also having the same problem he is.
Also Grey doesn't like playing scum btw.

Day too long already, like I said

let's get that wagon back on alisae?

VOTE: alisae

tell me this -- what indicates that Alisae isn't lynchbait?

Though tbh, wouldn't be surprised if this is dreal bussing.

[Ircher]

And Yeah no, I'm not buying that shit Pine.
Especially since people haven't posted.

VOTE: Pine

Right.

We're already nearly 20 pages into the game. As the game progresses, ISOing will become a serious issueI pity the fool that has replace in when someone flakes.

To be honest, I'd be happy with lynching everybody that already has over a hundred posts.

Oh wait... that's you!

Does this seem hilarious to anyone except me?

The game will end when all threats to town have been eliminated or that is not possible.

Singleball.

How does that confirm singleball? (Although, that is badly worded imo.)

It looks like it confirms it as singleball to me. "The game will end when" not "Town wins when". What would happen if it were multiball and no town were left alive, but two scum factions left? It would be impossible to eliminate all threats to town and so the game would end. With two winners? That would be a very unsatisfactory end.

I've been thinking, new year, new tie?

I have a real fondness for yellow ties.


I'm not going to bother commenting on Debi's 9 scum and all of the subsequent bad math.

Spoiler: rb's case(?) on Gin

We should lynch Alisae or Gin

VOTE: Gin

Flashwagon pls

I thought this looked scummy as hell. It looked exactly like a scum trying to take the heat off scum buddy, Alisae, while still trying to take some town cred when Alisae was eventually lynched. In spite of repeated requests, RB refused to explain why he thought Gin was scum or what the link between Gin and Alisae was.

Yeah let's all kill Gin my murdercock is ready

Can we just lynch alisae or gin already so that we can be rewarded with that warm fuzzy feeling town gets when someone flips red. Ty

the only acceptable votes for today are Grey, Alisae, Gin

rb, when the fuck are you going to vote me and make it L-1. I'm assuming you still think I'm scum.

i prefer to kill Gin tbh

like i said, i wanna kill Gin today and you tomorrow. this is optimal

So, if there is scum on the wagon, who is it?

it's you, alisae is your scumbuddy

A man posting spiderman memes is so obv town we don't even need to question his motives.

can we please lynch gin and not alisae

i still hate ginNtonic with a passion

rb stop lazyposting because you're ic
whose scum bruv

gin probably

i forget the names of the others tbh, i also wanna see how some more daytime develops. Too many lurkers cant all be scum. Need them to start posting more

This totally looked like scum to me. RB comes into the game, says he hasn't read the first 10 pages, and says that Gin is scum along with Alisae. He keeps pushing Gin, but doesn't give anything remotely close to a reason. It looks like scum RB is trying to draw attention away from his scum buddy Alisae, while still finding Alisae scummy for the later bussing town cred. In spite of repeated requests, he never explains why Gin is scum or what the connection between Alisae and Gin is.

Okay well mhsmith is away but I'm innocent child and I will now analyze my McStratagem Burger results

Then we find out that RB is IC. Ugh. So I think this must have been some sort of odd reaction test by RB that I don't understand. Did we ever the the analysis that RB promised above? Was it just RB acting scummy because he could?

Lynchbait should NEVER be lynched D1 unless D1 is LyLo which it clearly isn't. That's a recipe for ML if you do, even if there is the off chance they are scum.

What? Can you explain this? You have voted for Debi and Wraith, for making bad assumptions around the 9 scum hypothetical. How is that different than lynchbait? You voted RB because while you think he's better, he was acting like lynchbait. Then you voted lurkers, Alone, Slick, and Drealm. Why are you worried about ML lynchbait, but not worried about ML lurkers? And how exactly do you categorize Alisae as lynchbait and not Debi?


And Gamma and Drealm! What's up? If I can get caught up, you two should be able to.

Debi was a bit of a knee-jerk vote. Rb wasn't lynchbait even though he was playing like lynchbait. There's a difference.

The good thing about ML lynchbait > ML lurkers is that most of them actually participate.... A lot. Make the call later when there's some flips and PoE and more content to help out.

[Ircher]

I wasn't sheeping anyone. I think you're scum, period. You've played the "I'm too obv" card today, so I can wait.

didnt you say you were sheeping the IC's vote like 4 posts back?

[Ircher]

Say a number from 20-100.

31

[Ircher]

VOTE: drealmerz

Blatantly sheeping the IC.

Oh, nvm, was referring to this vote.

[Ircher]

can we just lynch it already it's such a negative impact on this game it can die

1) Who's "it"?
2) Why the rush when you ar on like pg 10?

[Ircher]

Alright, I'm no longer talking to Alisae for the rest of D1 but I gotta ask the town, I'm going to build a case on Echo and I truly think he's scum, however at this point I'm also willing to policy lynch Alisae as it's just D1 and hey, 50/50 chance never actually goes away.

Where did you get 50/50 from? I think we established earlier that the chances of randomly lynching scum is less than 50/50 since there is a higher number of town versus scum.

[Ircher]

you're nothing but a negative influence to the game

scummy enough for me

scummy != scum.

Give me the scum motivation please.

[Ircher]

really? wow that is pathetic

there isn't even a case on me for me to defend against - I've been unenthused by the game, it's been clear, so I sit back and watch a bit and have not much to contribute until the shit stops piling up at an exponential rate

I've made less than a dozen posts or some shit, and a rising majority thinks I'm scum? absolutely pathetic, really

I'd like to hear an actual case against me

1) You haven't read the thread except to like pg 10
2) You are pushing lynchbait which is esp. bad considering #1 and the fact you haven't given quotes to support it.
3) You don't seem too interested in the direction the game goes right now.

[Ircher]

ohmygod how is this shit still alive??? even if you're town you deserve to die from all the shit you spew constantly, it's hurting town SO FUCKING MUCH

I feel like my D1 reads are shit and that it'd be more harmful than good at this point - I'm more comfortable just

sitting and watch things unfold a bit more

, that doesn't make me scum

so, go ahead, you have so much shit to spew out of your fucking fingers, lay out the case on me

stop with your SHIT narrative, and actually say something with substance

We're at 70+ pages, certainly you have slightly more to say than what you are? Thats scum avoiding giving reads.

[Ircher]

No people like playing with me oddly enough.

with experience (maybe a lot), you'll get better.

I wasn't very good for th longest time.

[Ircher]

WHAT IS THE CASE ON ME?

LAY IT OUT

OR SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY

Okay, what's up with this chainsaw @Gin? Why do you feel dreal is town?

[Ircher]

be less of a shitplayer and maybe I'll take you more seriously

Take the game more seriously please.

[Ircher]

You and Texacat are scum together. No doubt about that.

Why do you scumred Texcat again?

[Ircher]

so you get TR by pretending to be a shittown player

got it

those aren't cases

do you know how to play mafia?

maybe you should replace and go try a noob game

That's rude.

There will always be less-skilled players and more skilled players. I highly doubt that Alisae would pretend to be lynchbait the entire game. That takes skill to do; no, I'm reading genune lynchbait here.

[Ircher]

Hi! I'm scum flailing!
Do you like, even know how to play the game bro?
Git gud bro.

I think I need to work on my sarcasm.

You should've used italics. That would've made it extra clear.

[Ircher]

You and Texacat are scum together. No doubt about that.

That is my case btw.

LMAO. That's quite a case.

Can we lynch this already? No matter what Ircher thinks, lynchbait not= town. We're going to have to lynch this sooner rather than later.

no.

You are right -- lynchbait aren't always town, but despite that, the time to get rid of lynchbait is generally midgame or later. Not D1 because there are other ways to figur out a lynchbait's alignment.

@Dreal -- I need to refresh myself on your scumplay cuz I tracked you moreso in the scum pt versus the game thread & I have a poor memory for some things. I have not made my final judgement on you yet, but I do currently scumread you.

Pedit: WKing != scum. I could be wrong, but I feel confident enough that Alisae is likely lynchbait that he'd be a terrible D1 lynch.

[Ircher]

omg that is funny alisae is just SRing their wagon I didn't even realize

rb is voting me? wtf dude? ircher? thafuck? you draw scum?

not L-2, apparently

*goes back to being a useless fuck D1*

I'm generally quieter as scum. Though, I dont have too many scumgames, so take tht with a grain of salt.

[Ircher]

do a favor everyone and vote for who you think is :

MOST LIKELY SCUM

that is step #1

alisae, just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY, seriously

And right now, that's you.

[Ircher]

you don't even get it

wow

this needs to die people it is a HUGE liability if town (already destroying the game) and most likely just scum reveling in the fact that they're getting away with this scumtastic shit (destroying the game)

let me put it this way: Lynchbait are WILDCARDS,

Town needs wildcards to keep scum on their toes.

[Ircher]

If alisae isn't dead by the start of D2 I'ma replace out I can't play with that shit

pretty sure you can be banned for that behavior.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Alisae

Policy Lynch vote, still doing the Echo case before hammer.

Like beetlejuice, policy lynches on lynchbait players should be sent into oblivion.

[Ircher]

I'm leaning more town on Alisae but I'm policy lynching that fucking slot.

then you are game throwing.

[Ircher]

I can sum up why the policy lynch is almost a necessity right now in a couple of questions.

1) Do you, as town, trust Alisae to make a good decision in LyLo, regardless if you are alive or not?

2) Do you, as town, believe Alisae's spam-like posting and OMGUS behaviour benefit the town more than it does harm it?

3) Do you, as town, believe that you can get a fair read on her by the end of the game and will be able to fairly judge if her slot is scum or not compared to an a scum slot?

If you can prove how Alisae's slot strengthen's the vitality of the town, then I'll back off, until then, I'm 100% confident that this lynch is actually the better path to go down.

1) Yes.
2) That's a non-factor when we are refering to less skilled players.
3) Possibly.

[Ircher]

Skimmed the last two pages.

Will hammer Alisae or Drealmerz to avoid mote


Dude do you even lift talk.

?

Alisae is lynchbait unless you can prove otherwise; I kinda ask that you do not hammer there.

[Ircher]

If Gin genuinely believed Alisae needed to be a policy lynch, he wouldn't have hard defended him and then waited until they were both lynch candidates to bring it up. That is survivalistic play.

I could go with this. I think this somewhat underplays the factors that go into such though. (More than 1 factor).

[Ircher]

Can we just lynch somebody like today? At this point I don't even care if it's me but I'm not self-hammering because it's unethical

no.

[Ircher]

Maybe we can go after someone staying under the radar.

also a no thank you. (suboptimal lynch, bu beats less-skilled players type lynches)

[Ircher]

creature,

there is soooooooo much content out there to lynch someone that is likely scum

why do you keep insisting on going for the useless on D1 where we would get no good read from the flip?

can we just lynch creature? he's one of my top choices for scum and I am helping this game a lot you should all listen to me

no we are not.

[Ircher]

If I'm advocating for another lynch, that's still info. Players will have to voice their opinions on that wagonee, aka info.

so you're saying you want to start wagons to get people's opinions on the wagonee?

that is scumtastic, creature

c'mon, people, see the light

explain how that is "scumtastic".

[Ircher]

apparently instead of playing mafia I should be hosting "how to play mafia" sessions in the discussion boards

can you please stop with your stupid ego attacks on the playing ability of this site?

[Ircher]

Sorry I doubt scumdrealmerz defense here is to tell you guys you're playing like shit

The more likely option is you're playing like shit


Going for lynches such as slick and drealmerz on this specific day one is fucking awful imo



If you need me to spell it out for you you're doing a couple of things wrong and it's laughable you're assuming I'm doing something wrong in providing my simple towncase for him , or rather, "why this is a shitty lynch case"

why is it awful? What lynches would you prefer?

[Ircher]

no nor do I care to

I don't meta-dive anyone ever, I learn to read them by experience with them it works best for me

I do the same. Somehow, we have come to opp. conclusions on Alisae and I want you to emphasize the difference between scum Alisae and less skilled/lynchbait Alisae..

[Ircher]

If dreal flips town I'm obviously not going to absolve his wagonees of responsibility but rb takes a lot of the blame for making a solid premature assessment on a player or thinking he is too good to do otherwise

Clarify.

[Ircher]

it's more like I'm a sharpener and ppl's blades are so dull - the rub is there, but it makes you sharper

ppl need to get their egos out of it

you first.

[Ircher]

there may or may not be people in the game currently who can attest to me having claimed to never meta-dive previously too

this is true.

[Ircher]

yah i mean i could pick apart every post we've made in that interaction and tell you the scum motivation vs. town motivation behind them and how i interpret your thoughts but i'd just really rather not atm

the point is that it reads so obvious and blinding to me that i shouldn't have to, which makes me feel like this is all one big joke or something and you're all laughing at me for being an idiot

and you say my methodology is flawed???

alright everyone:

this is exactly what I was expecting

I do my thing, and I get someone who thinks they see LHF, I give them a little line, they run with it, I jerk back, and they're hooked and they can't get away

you've got NOTHING, HS

let's JUST take the VC stuff, because that one is EASY and you should be able to handle it

if I were scum why would I make the claim I did at the beginning of the game about how I was going to do VCs, offer them in the future in the same post, and then not prepare accordingly in case someone asks in the future?

I will admit, Human's revival of the fabricated VC thing has caught me attention.

[Ircher]

am I dumbscum who just thought I could throw that out there and never be called on it?

or am I supersmart scum now playing a WIFOM game about fake VC keeping? if that is it, why the fuck would I do that and draw all the attention like that rather than something more towny? more WIFOM?

the second one.

That's exactly what WIFOM is.

[Ircher]

once again, if this was the -truth- you wouldn't have spent 45 minutes figuring out what you'd respond to me with.

dreamer needs rope really bad.

please stop using timestamps as evidence.

[Ircher]

yah i mean i could pick apart every post we've made in that interaction and tell you the scum motivation vs. town motivation behind them and how i interpret your thoughts but i'd just really rather not atm

the point is that it reads so obvious and blinding to me that i shouldn't have to, which makes me feel like this is all one big joke or something and you're all laughing at me for being an idiot

and you say my methodology is flawed???

alright everyone:

this is exactly what I was expecting

I do my thing, and I get someone who thinks they see LHF, I give them a little line, they run with it, I jerk back, and they're hooked and they can't get away

you've got NOTHING, HS

let's JUST take the VC stuff, because that one is EASY and you should be able to handle it

if I were scum why would I make the claim I did at the beginning of the game about how I was going to do VCs, offer them in the future in the same post, and then not prepare accordingly in case someone asks in the future?

'I give them a little line'
'you've got NOTHING'
If you give them something to think you are Scum for, isn't that them having something???
VOTE: drealmerz7

PS: You don't need to spam so much you know, without all of the useless posts, it would seriously help people navigate between posts.

Please tell me that isn't a hammer.
UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

ok so dreamer in a universe where you weren't gambitting me with the vc, what was the 'line' you gave me? what were you using to bait me?

if you were going somewhere with this line of questioning, where was it? why have you given up on it?

confirmation bias or scum?

This push feels like a tunnel.

[Ircher]

^lynch this

not yet.

[Ircher]

What a stellar two page argument guys

no, this has been an extended 10 page argument.

[Ircher]

you don't even get it

wow

this needs to die people it is a HUGE liability if town (already destroying the game) and most likely just scum reveling in the fact that they're getting away with this scumtastic shit (destroying the game)

how is town ruining the game wtf I'm so lost... and I've actually read the game!

I'm back btw catching up

thats just Drealm's inflated ego.

[Ircher]

VOTE: All Alone

I've got a leaning towards town read for you but it's stuff like this that confused the fuck out of me... There's no focus in all alone and I just don't get why you voted him. still reading, hopefully you stated a reason later on

pretty sure he did. Basiclly, All Alone was making a lot of empty posts. (That's very simplified though)

[Ircher]

So, I'd like to set up an informal gladiation between Dreal and I.

With 19 players, we can get 9 players on each wagon as I do think both are at 7/8 right now so this shouldn't be a problem.

I then think that the IC should be the one to decide the hammer so we can get the full effects of Vote Count Analysis as we dont need a vote to find out RB's alignment anymore.

bad idea. scum would agree with this.

Pedit: Idk.

[Ircher]

in a word? distraction

nah, that doesn't really show the motivation.

[Ircher]

I highly doubt that Alisae would pretend to be lynchbait the entire game. That takes skill to do; no, I'm reading genune lynchbait here.

why do you doubt it?

no, it doesn't take any skill to do - yes, you've said since waayyyyy long ago that you are reading alisae as lynchbait, he was very gleeful for that I'm sure

It really does take skill to fake it and keep it seeming genuine throughout the entire game.

[Ircher]

why do you keep repeating that?

Good question.

Draw the conclusions yourself.

[Ircher]

you're summing up alisae into a word you can then dismiss - "lynchbait"

they're not lynchbait

they're being scummy as fuck, allllll over the place - through the entire thread

you are reading it as lynchbait - it is not (in my view) - it's fake, it's 200000 votes with no fucking case every and a bunch of shittalking

it's scum-tactic distraction and "teeheee I get away with it because it's so abhorent scum would never do it" bullshits

I'm not WIFOMing; it's "lynchbait" behavior. Besides, you've already proved ro me you cannot read less-skilled players anyway, so ....

[Ircher]

If alisae isn't dead by the start of D2 I'ma replace out I can't play with that shit

pretty sure you can be banned for that behavior.

can you elaborate because I don't understand

or link the pertinent forum-site rule pls

there's been bans for tactical replace outs. Replacing out for game-related reasons probs fall under that category.

[Ircher]

"prove otherwise" is RIDICULOUS standards in mafia, Ircher

not really.

Learn to READ.

[Ircher]

It's still hard to see when someone classifies my constant vote-hopping and one-liners as "liability to town". Alisae must be feeling the same.

It's like saying an ethical group is detrimental to humanity.

^

[Ircher]

uhhh because all that does is stir a bunch of shit

vote for the scummiest player

if we each do that, the rest falls into place

what he is advocating doing is artificial fabrication, it's worthless

One-Size-Does-Not-Fit-All

[Ircher]

apparently instead of playing mafia I should be hosting "how to play mafia" sessions in the discussion boards

can you please stop with your stupid ego attacks on the playing ability of this site?

probably not

can people get their egos of their way and learn to learn?

egos need SLICED TO PIECES sometimes

you misread; I was refering to your ego.

[Ircher]

can you seriously not recognize rhetoric?

Can you seriously not read?

[Ircher]

no nor do I care to

I don't meta-dive anyone ever, I learn to read them by experience with them it works best for me

I do the same. Somehow, we have come to opp. conclusions on Alisae and I want you to emphasize the difference between scum Alisae and less skilled/lynchbait Alisae..

a LOT of my game is personality and behavior assessment - I see consciousness and deliberatness vs. flailing towny who doesn't know what they're doing - it's an insight into their individual psychology - I do grant that I could be wrong, of course - but I have played a good number of games of mafia and I have become a better and better judge of distinguishing between the nuances exactly like we are at odds with here

a less-skilled (town) player realizes their vote hopping and spew is anti-town and curbs it - a skilled scum-player waits and watches for the point at which their intentional anti-town vote-hopping spew-spewing is accepted starts to turn to disfavorable and teeters on which direction to take it depending on the winds

you (and maybe pine too?) came in and give him the lynchbait label allowing him continue on - again, a less-skilled town player at this point begins to curb their behavior, a scum player sees that they're going to get away with it, and contiues for an appropriate amount of time as to not draw attention to the sudden shift in behavior

this HIGHLIGHTS your inability to understand why your logic is flawed. You assume Alisae can play much better and simply refusing. Thats not always the case.

[Ircher]

ircher, did I miss it? did you also attest to my claim of doing VCs as I've claimed?

no. I'm just saying Human should not be focusing on the minor details of VCs.

[Ircher]

rb said you were scum from the first post you made. He said you fit your scum meta



He's a big part of why you have a wagon on you

I joined for my own reasons. I got off cuz I dont want day to end yet.

Dreal : Top 3 scumreads and why please.

[Ircher]

(considering I have no scum meta)

That's a humongous lie.

[Ircher]

Eh, I'd give Dreal around a 55% chance of being scum now (down from around 88% earlier)

[Ircher]

you miss me SR creature, ircher, and TRGNT?

tl;dr basically (didn't remember).

Explain why. Again.

[Ircher]

fake = lies = scum

one size does not fit all

[Ircher]

And if it is, how is that scummy.
Comes off as more NAI to me.

It is. Not even a lie as he put it -- just inattentiveness.

[Ircher]

you come off as NAI to yourself?

And?

[Ircher]

Actually let's do this instead

Titus, Texcat, Wraith, Pine, Gin, Kyouko, Ircher, Drealmerz
what is your read on the other person listed beside ywall?

Titus -- I forget who Titus replaces so null
Texcat - Null leaning scum
Wraith - Neutral leaning town
Pine - Neutral leaning scum
Gin - Null
Kyouko - Null
Drealm - Neutral leaning scum

[Ircher]

As for the rest of his posts, you'll also been keen to notice that I have been the only player he ever talks about. I've been the main contender for the lynch right now, and I can only see Scum!All Alone pushing a lynch on one player.

There is no room for town!All Alone to be tunneling one player and never interacting with anyone else.

Oh, there's no room for town to tunnel one player, you say? then wtf is this:

I'm not focusing on anyone else right now but All Alone, anyone else is distracting.

I find it really hard to believe that townGin CONSCIOUSLY DECIDED to tunnel on me, and then LITERALLY FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER decided that tunnelling could not possibly come from town.

And yeah, "focus" is

exactly

how I play town. DEAL. WITHIT

This is something I could get behind actually.

[Ircher]

I'm just using my vig shot on you, I dont care if I die claiming a power role, you're a worthy shot.

Breadcrumb Please.

[Ircher]

Remember, the those 3 pushers of my lynch, also Echo. Let's end Day 1 please.

VOTE: Gin

reads somewhat genuine.

[Ircher]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

I concur w/ the latter assessment.
VOTE: Titus

[Ircher]

Continuing from page 72

Spoiler: Notes

* Wow Echo's #1775 is serious crap. Alisae never has a case on anyone. And coming from ECHO at this point it's just super-hypocritical
* I don't know why talk of lynching Slick has gone out the window at this point.
* dreal is getting better. Actually trying to contribute rather than make excuses for not contributing. Nevertheless, I'm suddenly struck by a theory I had as I went to bed last night on why Creature is playing the way he is, assuming he is town. Not going to say it out loud but I think I have to re-evaluate my read on Creature. I think he's back in the soft townread category. This is good sequence I think it cleared up my reads on a couple players I was having trouble pinning down.
* Titus sheeping Creature of all players is a little odd IMO
* I think I agree with Titus in #1830. Problem is, it's hard to read players based on how they in turn read dreal. It's really easy to scumread dreal for things that (to me at least) seem like normal dreal things
* #1831 JFC dreal. I start townreading you and you say something like that.
* #1832 Townreading Titus. Astonishing how she can replace in like that and post in such a way that I can immediately get a read on her
* #1833 I feel like I missed something on why Zach objects strongly to a Slick lynch
* #1835 and now Titus's sheeping of Creature is even more baffling
* Okay dreal's play just swings wildly between "scummy-ass garbage" and "legit has a point I think" and as a result I'm completely uncomfortable lynching him D1 this game. He just has a naturally-scummy and abrasive playstyle and I think it's sending peoples' radars completely haywire already.
* #1856 makes me think Zach and I are kindred spirits in this regard. For being confirmed town RB seems awfully preoccupied with throwing his

penis

weight around rather than actually trying to scumhunt
* Posts #1865 and #1867 are good examples of why drealmerz is a really bad lynch for the day. Uzi and HS are players I've been getting soft scum vibes from for a while, but even they are coming up with fair points against drealmerz. He's one of those players where it's easy to find him scummy and equally easy to dodge blame if you were on the wagon and he flips town, simply because he's so naturally scummy it's easy to come up with legitimate reasons to lynch him, motives being genuine or not.
* #1874 Fucking. Kill. This. Shit.
* #1897 yet more examples of why drealmerz is actually a shit lynch, not (necessarily) a scum lynch. He does this a lot. He's been doing this practically the entire game so far!
* Okay #1901 is a good post and seems genuine. Even if it's in response to dreal. With a number of new players dipping into my scumreads HS might be getting bumped up to Murky.
* #1908 wow. Not trying to offend people personally, but the huge amount of lurkers who come out to vote the prevailing wagon for shallow or non-existent reasons is just a cancer on this game.
* I can get behind Zach's reasoning in #1945. His bolded there is pretty fucking spot on IMO
* #1965 Fucking hell and I was just starting to get comfortable with Dunn
* #1966 I fucking hate talk like this. Play your damn wincon.
* #1983 oh please this is absolutely fucking hypocritical and it's disgusting
* #1992 thank you a goodpost by Dunn to make up for the last shit one. Even if one of his four scum mentioned is Zach which is shit.
* #2008 I get it now, Dunn. Bad company.
* #2031 jeremiahjohnsonnod.gif
* Ircher reading Alisae as lynchbait but not dreal is rather fucking baffling

Up to page 83 now.

Spoiler: Reads By Category

Townread

rb
Gin
texcat
Ircher
Zach

Soft Townread

Creature
Dunnstral
GE/Titus
All Alone

Neutral/Murky

Kyouko
Debi
Pine
HS
drealmerz

Soft Scumread

Uzi
Echo

Scumread

Slick
Alisae

Since Nadroj's game finished --- The difference between drealm and alisae is that alisae feels genuine and the questionable stuff from his iso seem more subconscious.

Drealm is however on purposely playing like Low-Hanging Fruit (he admittted such in fact).

Thats a huge difference.

[Ircher]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

STOP with these generalizations

everyone else, STOP LISTENING to these generalizations

they arent generalization when:

1) They are very specific yet broad enough to not be too specific
2) They are backable by facts
3) They concern specific players

[Ircher]

15. Debi - MURKY. Lurking.

It isn't that I am trying to Lurk, nor wanting to, I'm just having serious problems picking up anything to say for many reasons. There are so many posts going on in an hour or so, it is really really hard to keep up with it, I come back from college or from a nap, and there are 8 or so more pages, which completely contradict everything that person has done up till then. Also the spamming really doesn't help, especially not from drealmerz. I can't keep up with it, I'm struggling telling what is a joke, an argument, or stupidity. Also I prefer doing larger posts, and I genuinely can't do it at the speed of which this game is going. Of course I can on the odd, when something is obvious and stands out, however the spamming and useless posts for the sake of posting really don't help it. Like what is the point in asking somebody about their avatar and if they do their own GFXing?

Also somebody asked me why I switched votes from Gin to Drealmerz. At the moment, these are my strong Scum reads:
Gin
Drealmerz
Alisae
Zach

I'll happily change my vote to any of them, if I can come up with a more convincing argument against them. So I thought Gin was the easiest to get lynched a while ago, but it then changed to Drealmerz. With evidence I'm happy to change my vote to any of the 4.

So I thought Gin was the easiest to get lynched a while ago, but it then changed to Drealmerz. With evidence I'm happy to change my vote to any of the 4.

This sentence makes me uncomfortable

Nice cherry-pick.

In context, it makes more sense -- debi scumred both but wanted be on the wagon more likely to go through.

[Ircher]

evidence

you'll change your vote with evidence, debi?

FUCKING EVIDENCE?!?!

yes, EVIDENCE.

Subjective crap is useless.

[Ircher]

(actually, I'm prob. reading that out of context....)

[Ircher]

Titus you're analysis is cool an all, but there's one problem.

My wagon happened before rb's wagon and I even reached L-1.

And why do you think that is a problem?

P-edit: Drealmerz, telling me my methods are a "waste of time" won't get me to act more like you. Why do you think town are voting you? (I doubt the whole scumteam is sitting on your wagon).

who said anything about acting like me?

I'm talking about playing the game

you're playing some other game that you like because you like numbers and patterns or something

that's not scumhunting

In other words, using logic? Just stop.

[Ircher]

plus, it's D1 gone on too long

plus, I'm being wagoned for shit-reasons

plus, lots of bad play

now you're flailing.

[Ircher]

I've not played a lot with creature but I've never seen him be so scummy and yet everyone is like "yay creature!!"

Imean, I like the dude from what I can tell, seems like a nice smart cheery fella, but, it's mafia, he draws scum, and he's playing scummy

killll himmmmmm

Scummy != scum.

Stop looking just at the exterior.

[Ircher]

You're absolutely wrong. The words are charisma. Barring cop clears/results, the root is who values whom and why. Town functions when we get the best out everyone. The votes serve as a gun to the head, who values whom more and why.

well I think you're wrong - words aren't just charisma, holyfuck - that is you taking ALL WORDS and labeling them as 1 word that you don't value so that you can throw it all away - what the fuck?!

so what does alisae's vote pattern tell you?

Clarify what you mean here.

[Ircher]

Hope it's not "lurking" when we've got people flooding the thread to a level I could never hope to achieve

you kinda are, but I'm ignoring it right now.

[Ircher]

I'm just using my vig shot on you, I dont care if I die claiming a power role, you're a worthy shot.

I'll self hammer at this point but lynch these slots lynched with fire after I'm dead.

Remember, the those 3 pushers of my lynch, also Echo. Let's end Day 1 please.

VOTE: Gin

SELF-HAMMERING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAY

SELF-VOTING IS NOT A TOWN VIG PLAY

FAKECLAIM DETECTED, EVERYONE GET YOUR VOTES ON GIN

Too add to this -- He ignored me when I requested his breadcrumb.
UNVOTE: Titus

[Ircher]

I think it will become rather apparent whether his claim is true or not over the night.

This is wrong on so many levels.
1. Vig can chose not to shoot.
2. No kill gambit.
3. Someone prevents a kill from happening either by doc or rb

1 just doesn't happen in practice.
2 prob. won't happen.

3 is indeed a possibility and you forgot 4) Multiball

[Ircher]

Alright then, I forgot my vote was on Gin so I'll gladly swap off now.
VOTE: Texcat
I want to lynch this unless Gin plans on shooting this.

Also we leashing Gin or naaah.

No, the vig if Gin is a vig should choose his own target.

[Ircher]

or we can lynch alisae

much more likely scum than SD or 80% of the playerlist!

Elaborate.

Alisae is trying. SD isn't. And I've yet to see the full scum motivations in Alisae's posts.

[Ircher]

So, out of All Alone, Zach, Slick, Echo, Debi or Texcat please tell me who'd you like me to shoot and who you think the shot would be most wasted on.

I'll take the best case I find and we'll work from there day 2 given the flips we get.

P.S. You won't convince me to shoot outside this pool of players.

None of them; make your own decision.

I could care less if you decide to shoot me tbh.

[Ircher]

Titus which lynch would give you the most information?
If mine vote me, I like getting lynched if it gives a ton of information and as long as Texcat dies over night.

I don't lynch for information.

I use information as a starting point. SD also provides lots of info by flipping him.

Texcat gives me next to no info.

How?

[Ircher]

I see a future VCA hunter in you, however VCA isn't useful until there have been a lot of flips and you can start to color code them to find patterns.

You should meet JaeReed.
Last time I checked his VCA's were pretty on point.

Yeah Jae is pretty good, but VCA is still shit. It might actually be useful in this case though with the way is mod is doing the vote counts since it helps with actually bringing context into the picture.

I voted, and why I encourage a vote towards AA is for the following reasons:

He has 16 posts in total in which, we can break down fairly simple.
Starting off, the first 5 posts were naked votes and the 6th vote was a fake "town frustration" reaction by saying on D1 he doesn't know where to put his vote, thus frustrated does not make sense on D1 and this isn't his first game either.

In his post 1001, AA goes on to say my read on Alisae as town was the only with depth to it. "This is Gin's only townread with any depth to it" (Post 1001, All Alone). Therefore, All Alone has stated that I have reasoning to town read Alisae.

Then in post 1027, AA goes on to say I never explained why I town read Alisae. This is a direct contradiction to his earlier push and shows that All Alone has changed his narrative to fit his push; some of which involves misrepresenting to get it through.

As for the rest of his posts, you'll also been keen to notice that I have been the only player he ever talks about. I've been the main contender for the lynch right now, and I can only see Scum!All Alone pushing a lynch on one player.

There is no room for town!All Alone to be tunneling one player and never interacting with anyone else.

That ladies and gentlemen is a case worth voting for.

This is a better presentation of your case but I still don't think AA was maliciously misrepresenting you. I just think the definition of depth is the problem and it wasn't really clarified. You do have a point about him just tunneling you all game. I'm not sure what's that about or what to make of it but it might just be his style of play. He might be the confident type in the sense that when he suspects someone is scum, he doesn't think he can be wrong and just blocks out everything until said person is lynched.

Speaking of VCs --

Dreal

: I request you make and publish a VC history for the first 50 pages.

[Ircher]

If Gin is real, he should shoot whoever he feels like without influence from others.

Scumclaim?

How is that a scumclaim?

[Ircher]

that's not sensible policy lynch on D1

sensible PL on D1 is alisae

lurker vs. non lurker on D1 - nonlurker always

you got that backwards -- lurker vs nonlurker - lurker always.

And can we stop trying to PL Alisae? If you have a scumcase, great, I'd like to hear it, but let's lynch on the basis of scum, not policy.

[Ircher]

pine's right actually

just because you've decreased the amount of shitposting from 90% to 30%, doesn't mean it's gone by any means

Take what you get and don't pitch a fit.

[Ircher]

So we got Wraith, Texcat, Pine, and Drealmerz on my wagon again.
Good shit, soon someone will just be able to lynch from on my wagon

^Example of shitposting.

Shitposting is defined (at least by me) as vanity posting that has little or no positive impact on the game, done in absurd quantity.

The assertion that everyone on your wagon is either pitifully naive, unbelievably arrogant, or more likely just incredibly dumb. It's completely implausible, and vigorously unproductive.

This is why I'd like to PL you.

PEdit: As she says, Titus, I've been scumreading her all game. I'll take a strong SR of my own, seasoned with shitposting and baked in PL, over a weak secondhand read. I'll hear you out though. Make or link to a case on SD, please.

And make your scum!Alisae case.

[Ircher]

ssbm_Kyouko posts little as scum, but posts a bit more as town.

Titus posts a lot lot more as town.

STOP with these generalizations

everyone else, STOP LISTENING to these generalizations

they arent generalization when:

1) They are very specific yet broad enough to not be too specific
2) They are backable by facts
3) They concern specific players

So these are not very specific, they cite activity as AI when it's not. The facts of the matter are that sometimes some players are more busy than other players and by comparison are less active. I don't know what experience creature has with Titus but I know he has only 1 game with me and I don't post any less as scum than I do as town, I post when I have time and things to say as both alignments.

that VCA is a waste of time and energy

SCUMHUNT, please, titus

VCA is how some players scumhunt, deal with it

I didn't realize I didn't have a vote up, still love my case on him and I would love to talk about it.

VOTE: All Alone

That's a weird way to voice that you think someone's scum. Instead of calling them scum you say you love your case on them and would love to talk about it, repeating love looks like a subconscious way to make yourself look more benign imo

Fyi, I retract my above statement.

[Ircher]

We're at 100 pages. Vote SD or explain why he's town. Enough petty vendetta posting.

it works better if you push the case on why he's scum, you realize?

Oh wait....

He already did!

[Ircher]

*she
My bad.

[Ircher]

what exactly IS my defense of SD, titus?

point it out

it's not a defense of him

it's the defense against a poor lynch

mygoodness, you're scum, aren't you?!

The fact you ignire her case and chainsaw Titus in an attempt to keep Slick alive.

Pedit: Learn to freaking read. I have a wiki page for a reason.

[Ircher]

Because I don't understand the case on SD and I feel like Gin's pool is poorly constructed and doesn't line up with where he's been voting. I don't think his claim is real and if it is real I don't like the targets he's offering to shoot. If he lives and shoots AA or Zach and they flip scum I'll reconsider him but I think those slots are town, moreso Zach than AA.

I think drealmerz should be in his lynch pool and I want an explanation as to why he's not. Vig should shoot for someone that had a decent sized wagon today, excepting rb of course

He gave like 10 targets to choose from. /blatant misrep