New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Cerberus v666]

Yay!!!!

Nahdia, I know you said you don't dance, but....if you'd do me the honor, I'd gladly teach you.

[Cerberus v666]

Yay!!!!

Nahdia, I know you said you don't dance, but....if you'd do me the honor, I'd gladly teach you.

Dang bolding. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Now, with that said, I don't believe any town lady should so blithely accept a dance from any gentleman. This is a chance to weed out a villain in our midst, or force the villains to dance together at the least.

Speaking of which...2 mafia gentlemen, one lady? Vice versa? Anyone have any thoughts on what's more likely?

[Cerberus v666]

We'd all do well to remember that leaving one of the gentlemen out essentially acts as our first lynch. Don't pair up too fast.

That in mind, Cerb, I'll think about it ^_~

Tis you or bust milady, I intended to ask you to dance once I had noticed you were playing, and once you were IC'd...well, I don't think I could bear to live with the disappointment were you to choose another.

(Plus mechanically it makes very little sense for scum!me to want to partner with the IC. Town shan't remove them or their partner till the intermission , and at that time scum SHALL)

So yeah, let's boogie yo. :p

Pedit: idk, there's definitely mechanical stuff going on. It matters a lot to determine how likely it is that scum will be removed during the pre-dance/if they're guaranteed to have the ability to keep themselves all in the game.

Pedit: Hmm. Then why did the setup leave it ambiguous?

[Cerberus v666]

Oh never mind, in his PM to everyone he clarified that the setup is indeed identical to the last one.

So alright, yeah, we DO have the ability to keep scum from even joining the dance.

[Cerberus v666]

(Plus mechanically it makes very little sense for scum!me to want to partner with the IC. Town shan't remove them or their partner till the intermission , and at that time scum SHALL)

But since you are aware of this and even point it out as a fact to prove your townie-ness, is it still a valid argument?

Not at all. Nearly everything I do could be done by me as either alignment. I think it's up to Nahdia(who has more experience with me than most here) to determine if I'd do this as scum and put myself into the unenviable position of fighting desperately for my life during the(at least) last two dances, or if I, as town, would guarantee myself a relatively early exit from the game.

Honestly, the play is absolute shit for my style and strengths either way, I just like Nahdia and we were talking about dancing elsewhere, so as I see it, this was simply meant to be.

(You'd have to ask why I, as scum, would point that mechanical thing out though. It's much stronger to let someone else bring it up if someone decides to attack me.^^)

well cerb, i believe you'd ask me right outta the gate as either alignment :p

Indeed I would. I've heard your music, and tis pleasant to me.

[Cerberus v666]

Randomized distribution of scum between male and female isn't bastard, nor is forcing it any certain way, but now that we know it's random yes, there's no benefit to attempting to figure it out.

pedit: *sigh* Nahdia. you're INNOCENT. And a child. Not special.

[Cerberus v666]

Randomized distribution of scum between male and female isn't bastard, nor is forcing it any certain way, but now that we know it's random yes, there's no benefit to attempting to figure it out.

pedit: *sigh* Nahdia. you're INNOCENT. And a child. Not special.

Erm, this does not mesh with the theme. Thankfully I kept an eye on the deck development so I can suggest the term "Confirmed Innocent".

Lol. True. Alright, I'll go with that.

Okay, you're back to being special Nahdia!

To everyone: I will NOT be dancing with anyone except Nahdia. Make of that what you will. That was what was implied in my previous post, but I'll make it explicit here.

Nahdia, my life is in your hands. ^^

Now that that's out of the way...I just dropped my phone in the sink and I think I broke it. I'll probably be less active today than normal as a result, since I won't have my phone posting option.

[Cerberus v666]

Jester has a point about Cerb.

he really, truly doesn't.
did you read his post
it's literally an argument for pairing scum up with the IC

Have you played with Cerb before? He's as asset to town if he is town.

Not exactly thrilled with his pair choice because whoever Nahdia partners up with us going to get killed during intermission.

Bigger problem which I had was his asking the others how scum were distributed. Its an awkward, useless RVS post. How would any players know more than what he already knows?

...

Scum would know.

Duh.

I mean, sure, the answer could be a huge wifomy mess, but there is still value in extracting opinions from scum thoughts.

[Cerberus v666]

HS, there's no benefit to responding to your post? Your opinion of my slot quite literally DOES NOT MATTER.

Only Nahdias does at this juncture. *shrug*

And there's not enough in this game, not by a longshot, for me to actually have an opinion on jester or shadow.

pedit:@Nahdia: Not at all. I'm being completely honest. After I signed up and looked at the player list, I was like omg I can get Nahdia to dance! I was (semi) anxiously awaiting game start to make sure you didn't accept with anyone before I could ask, and then....it turned out you were IC, and I was even happier because it means I don't have to worry about Bloodborne BS in our PT, and determined then that I'd be willing to accept death D1 if we couldn't gamesolve all secret and stuff.

@SS: No good reason, as I said, it's HORRID play by me. Like, the fucking worst, but I just wanted a PT with Nahdia before game start, and decided the IC thing didn't matter.

@smith: newbie games don't count. Too short.

[Cerberus v666]

HS, there's no benefit to responding to your post? Your opinion of my slot quite literally DOES NOT MATTER.

Only Nahdias does at this juncture. *shrug*

And there's not enough in this game, not by a longshot, for me to actually have an opinion on jester or shadow.

pedit:@Nahdia: Not at all. I'm being completely honest. After I signed up and looked at the player list, I was like omg I can get Nahdia to dance! I was (semi) anxiously awaiting game start to make sure you didn't accept with anyone before I could ask, and then....it turned out you were IC, and I was even happier because it means I don't have to worry about Bloodborne BS in our PT, and determined then that I'd be willing to accept death D1 if we couldn't gamesolve all secret and stuff.

@SS: No good reason, as I said, it's HORRID play by me. Like, the fucking worst, but I just wanted a PT with Nahdia before game start, and decided the IC thing didn't matter.

@smith: newbie games don't count. Too short.

Sure, but what do you think of shadow sucking up to you with that post?

I don't think it means anything. It's fairly common that people who are experienced with me tag me as "an asset to town", so it doesn't really ping me. SS' only completed experience with me was in Bloodborne, but that game was long enough and the layers of play and planning complex enough that he *might* be able to express that viewpoint honestly.

@MDS: stick with it! It'll die down, probably. This game isn't full of many prolific posters, besides myself.

[Cerberus v666]

is nobody else going to acknowledge the actual, honest-to-god scumslip from shadow

i haven't seen a slip that clean-cut in ages

Okay, let's acknowledge this. One sec.

[Cerberus v666]

But seriously,

I will be treating my lover with the same (if not more) scrutiny.

Pedit: @inspector

Why do you keep repeating this?

What benefit is there to scum knowing in advance that a pt with you won't simply be a nice place to chat?

[Cerberus v666]

And why do you wanna pair up with nahdia and get killed during intermission?

This is the scumslip right?

It's...not really a scumslip? It's as bad as the argument you're lambasting HS for making, really.

There's no display of knowledge, no certainty. I already said that the person who pairs with Nahdia will die during the intermission, so the groundwork was laid, in thread, for him to pose that question to me in that fashion. He's essentially saying "Okay, I see you believe this. WHY would you put yourself into that situation, if you truly believe it?"

[Cerberus v666]

But seriously,

I will be treating my lover with the same (if not more) scrutiny.

Pedit: @inspector

Why do you keep repeating this?

What benefit is there to scum knowing in advance that a pt with you won't simply be a nice place to chat?

Because I'm ultimately trying to dodge pairing with a scum?

What the fuck obv my end goal is to match with a townie so it's easier to win. And I will destroy scum if they're in a PT with me so there's that.

Why are you trying to dodge pairing with a scum? If you'll destroy them in a PT, it's much more beneficial to town if you pair with scum, lead them on until lylo, and then simply remove them and give us the win.

[Cerberus v666]

Ser Arthur Dayne, I accept your request. Let's begin our danse macabre until our undying love is seperated by scarlet blood.

That's unfortunate.

pedit: I agree that the removing thing is...generally bad play. However, you're essentially removing a tool from your box, as it were, by deliberately making it less likely scum will pair with you. Your town bloc argumetn? That's one slot. You'll need a lot more, and that one slot isn't going to make or break things in any way. I think this might just be a play style difference though, where we each value things differently, so the way that you're going about things seems contrary to your expressed goals to me, but it's perfectly reasonable to you.

[Cerberus v666]

@Everyone: Care to share your thoughts on HS? They're the slot I feel should be most readable at this point.

pedit: @Parama: You mean we all need to learn to wear our tinfoil hats and jump at every shadow?(yes, that was deliberate, I'm so sorry)

[Cerberus v666]

if you take everything literally you're not gonna find scum

See, that's the thing. Town tend to do way more scummy things than actual scum do. Reading into EVERYTHING as deeply as possible, stretching the connections and implications, just...makes you tunnel on town.

SS could be scum, but I don't think we have enough evidence right now(which is to say, i don't think that post is damning enough to simply assume he's town)

Homestuck is town.

Was this a deliberate misinterpretation or am I missing a joke?

And, not you Nahdia. It's the people I don't know the alignment of who should express their opinion(preferably uncolored by your own, but ah well, too late).

[Cerberus v666]

Parama gave up too easily.
Just scum try to set up mislynches.

Yeah I'm just gonna ignore usless fucks like HS.

Don't do that.

Explain this to me. HS just "gave up" on me. Is this significant to you in any way?

@Nahdia: What can I call Human Sequencer when I'm being lazy if not HS???

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb

But HS wasn't trying to set you up for a ML(?)

Parama on the other hand is scraping the barrel. Awful/weak cases ~= scum

I mean, any push on town is setting someone up for a mislynch. How is HS's "case" on me better than Parama's? Is it simply because one is on me and the other is on you, and you know your own alignment? I find both pushes equally suspect, and I'm surprised that you don't as well.

[Cerberus v666]

@Nahdia: Lol dude, playing this made me want to go look at you playlist and find an awesome song to dance to, and it's all fantastic. This is totally not game related, but yeah, good shiz yo.

@HS: Do you sincerely believe deathtunneling is going ot be more useful for you in determining individuals alignments than actually look at the game as a whole?

[Cerberus v666]

@Nahdia: Lol dude, playing this made me want to go look at you playlist and find an awesome song to dance to, and it's all fantastic. This is totally not game related, but yeah, good shiz yo.

especially vanilla ice

Shit. I forgot about that.

*sigh*

I was referring more specifically to Metric and Two Door Cinema Club and Tegan and Sara. who all have awesome danceable music.

[Cerberus v666]

Excuse me
Dunn is

obviously

going to ask me for a dance.

Am I?

You were late to the dance.

again.

I think mds is scum

Are you sure?

I'm inclined to agree with Dunnstral, at least in that MDS really does need to do some explaining regarding why she essentially chose to make her partner lynchproof for the day at such an early point.

[Cerberus v666]

I love the last couple pages, and it sorta makes me just not want to play mafia anymore and be silly..

I'm bad at that though, so I'll just keep playing mafia.

But not right now.

Dunn: I look forward to hearing why you think I'm town. This should be interesting, since I don't believe we've played together before, so...it's a fresh read yo.

[Cerberus v666]

btw pretty sure cerberus is town

Will explain more later

Well
I reread shadowrun (or at least the reasonably - cerb slots) and their tone was the same and they were town, so I'm not in my right accusing them of a fake tone, but i still find them bothering in a way.

@everyone: remember me not to write dunn off as town

Legitimate effort, admitted to being wrong/unjustified in their read, but insistence that SOMETHING is wrong, they just don't know what?

Feelstown.jpg

Pretty gut read like, which I hate, but yeah, tis a degree of legitimacy here that bodes well for their alignment.

[Cerberus v666]

Yay!!!!

Nahdia, I know you said you don't dance, but....if you'd do me the honor, I'd gladly teach you.

Dang bolding. :p

I accept~

Yay!

ok well there's no reason to keep quiet anymore

I thought Cerberus was town for proposing to Nahdia, other people seemed to have a weird notion that scum would want to be paired with the ic... they wouldn't, they have a factional kill and if they're stuck with the ic everyone's going to question why the ic didn't die

This is underwhelming, honestly. That's really the only thought you had on the matter? :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Spoiler: Bonus dancingish GIF that I almost used, but...it's a bit much. But it's HILARIOUS!

[Cerberus v666]

oh god can i change my mind

<3

Don't worry, this'll be fun!

Now I've placed a limit on my life, while simultaneously making myself unlynchable for the first half of the game, so...I've forced myself into actually solving the game super early, without having all the distraction of trying to defend myself. I assure you, this combination will be super effective!

[Cerberus v666]

This is underwhelming, honestly. That's really the only thought you had on the matter? :-/

Not sure if I was selling it as something big or what

I don't think it's underwhelming, though I don't suppose it matters since nahdia accepted

That's true. I was just expecting something big. That's on me, not you.

[Cerberus v666]

Nahdia, not gonna happen. A man has to have principles.

[Cerberus v666]

Omg Nahdia why are you in my brain we haven't even talked in the pt.

Since Pie mentioned the whole identifying town/town thing I've wanted to say exactly what you just said.

Also, I'm caught up now, I'll participate when I get home.

[Cerberus v666]

Dunn/Kagami is probably town
I wish Cerb would post more so I can confirm him as town, still just sheeping the others on this
Arthur and Scout are towny, arthur moreso than scout

Sorry. I'll have the chance to engage properly in about 11 hours, after work.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm at page 61.

I'm currently at like 85% SS/MariaR is a town/town pairing.

MariaR is obvtown, someone already expressed why it doesn't make sense for her to attach herself to the sinking ship that was SS when she had other options/other people who had requests up that she could have taken. I will need to double check the timeframe and see if there's any possibility that she's partners with one of those people who had a floating offer at the end adn didn't want to take their offer, and didn't want to risk sickofit not asking her...but, if there were 3 or more available gentlemen at the time she took SS's offer, she's town, like 100%.

SS is a lot more complex. It comes down to the "case" against him feeling like shit(do you all seriously think scum!shadow blatantly contradicts himself? That's a dumb town mistake, not a scum one). I'll iso him after I'm done catching up though,and then I'm going ot iso pie who pinged me with her first few posts today, but I don't really know why.

[Cerberus v666]

I think I'm caught up now. Parama is still town, Gamma isn't a townlean anymore. I am totally lost on Shadow because I believe Maria and Jester about him, but I was so sure he was scum earlier that idk what to make of him now. I don't like some of the company on that wagon.

@Parama:

Sorry about being stupid earlier. I wasn't going to let Jester get away with it for long, I just really really wanted to play with him for a while. I actually think he's town now though. He made some really good posts in our PT and supported my decision to quit the dance if I thought it was the right thing to do.

@Dunn:

Have you heard back from Kagami yet?

You don't like some of the company on the wagon but you only had one actual scumread?

...

Please elaborate.

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Shadow, and MariaR: You guys should stop defending yourselves and focus solely on scumhunting k?

[Cerberus v666]

Like, people keep agonizing about "I want to lynch X but Y is their partner and they're so town!"
I don't give a flying fuck if it's a scumread and a nullread or a scumread and a townread, I'm here to lynch scum, sorry if casualties are necessary

This game is unique in that mechanically, if we can identify a total of 3 town/town pairs, town wins 100% of the time. I feel like too many people in this game are focusing on standard scum hunting play rather than identifying and organizing a town bloc...which is always helpful,but which is ESPECIALLY relevant to this setup.

Also a thought I had, that I'm sure everybody is going to reject because people don't like to do things optimally when it doesn't fit in with their standard view of things...but it's probably best for us to not lynch anyone today, let it go to deadline, have scum make their kill with the minimum ability to sculpt their endgame(because they'll have minimum information to decide their kill(granted, this is less valuable than it could be, since too many people spent too much time defending me, so now they'll probably just kill Nahdia and I at the intermission)), and then carry on with lynching as normal.

[Cerberus v666]

but it's probably best for us to not lynch anyone today, let it go to deadline,

If it goes to deadline maf win

Nope. Only the second time. Perhaps I misunderstood though.

[Cerberus v666]

From post 1.

First dance will end if there are 12 players or fewer left alive or deadline is reached. During the intermission, Mafia may secretly force one of the dance pairs to leave. Second dance will then begin, and continue until the game's end.

[Cerberus v666]

Running out of time only occurs during the second dance.

And yes, I'm aware that there aren't standard kills.

That's why the no lynch thing is optimal, because this game will ALWAYS have exactly one night kill.

[Cerberus v666]

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

[Cerberus v666]

Yo
Do we still need death if both Shadow and HS flip scum?

I have not thought about that at all. if you want me to comment on this, you'll need to walk me through what your argument here is.

ftr, I have HS as town.

First is the fact I SR Shadow because his method of play doesn't feel like he is town, especially his aversion to giving solid reads. I see some, but it's scattered and hard to analyze.
Then there's the fact Maria states Shadow has been really nice and apologetic in the PT. Scum don't need to do this with scumbuddies so I think Maria is town
Then there's HS's "if Maria flips town GE/Vedith should go". She only mentions Maria's alignment there, and it makes me think she's setting my pair up to take the fall after a Shadow + Maria flip
So if both Shadow and HS flip scum, there should be no doubt my pair is town based on how they set us up.

All your reasons to town read Maria are bullshit. Esp this one where aren'r even considering that both Maria and I are scum. So Maria can say whatever the heck she wants in the thread about what's happening in the PT.

If you town read Maria so much you'd be trying to convince your partner Vedith that she is town. Which you haven't done at all.

Gamma needs rope.

This guy can't read I said you can't be scum together because why the fuck would you buddy up to her like that if you were both scum?
And I still think you're scum Shadow, so as long as Vedith votes the way that gets you lynched I have no qualms with his actual reads.

You can't read you blithering idiot. Who told you that Maria is telling the truth?

SS. Stop. Be useful. Seriously. Do you want to win? If so, cooperate and stop being an ass. People are wrong about you, it's annoying, blah blah, there are like 12 other people to talk to, go talk to them and figure out their alignment.

[Cerberus v666]

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

Timer also resets after every lynch

I'm aware?

That's an argument in favor of no lynching. Since it's not a straight 8 day deadline.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus
We accually have been scumhunting (mind you him a lot more then me) but I plan to give a full reads list before the lynch is set in stone even if that means us

Honestly, the way I see SS's play is much more being irritated and semi-OMGusing and just lashing out, and not really scumhunting.

[Cerberus v666]

Obviously the risk there is that people WON'T be able to come to accords adn we'll end up losing because town can't get their shit together and agree on a lynch.

Timer also resets after every lynch

I'm aware?

That's an argument in favor of no lynching. Since it's not a straight 8 day deadline.

So you want to go to day 2 so mafia kill before we lynch anyone?

Yes.

Because it doesn't matter.

A single mafia kill always happens.

The ability of mafia to influence endgame is greater the less players there are alive in the game. They can look at the course of the game, see where everyones suspicions are with the information they have, and kill the pair whose death they feel will assist them the most in surviving and winning the game.

A kill tonight, when nobody has died, is basically a blind shot. They kill someone, and then every town controlled kill will be made with maximum information(including where the scum chose to NK), while the scums kill was made with the minimum.

pedit: I read your posts SS.

HS and Parama, the whole pair, concerns me honestly. No real rational cause for it though, really just preflip based on them pushing you. Of course, they're almost certainly not both scum, but one could certainly be scum whipping the other into a frenzy.

I'll have to double check the history there and how the push on you began/who was responsible for it, and how their pairing came about, and I'll tell you which of the two I currently feel is more likely to be scum. I haven't ISO'd anyone yet though, so yeah. This is from disjointed mass readings(that were almost, but not quite skims), so it's not exactly my best work.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh lol. I thought you wrote HS, not MH. wow. I have no idea how I made that connection.

Alright.

MH is being lazy, and I don't like it. As I said before pie is within my real of suspicion as well, so...they're on the low likelihood of being town/town spectrum, but blah. Do you want me to actually ISo someone SS? I'll be a lot more useful after I do that.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh lol. I thought you wrote HS, not MH. wow. I have no idea how I made that connection.

Alright.

MH is being lazy, and I don't like it. As I said before pie is within my real of suspicion as well, so...they're on the low likelihood of being town/town spectrum, but blah. Do you want me to actually ISo someone SS? I'll be a lot more useful after I do that.

Ok so you don't like my relative laziness and low activity, which is I guess ok as it is.

What do you think of the content I've actually produced? SAD was bitching about my only doing setup stuff, which is pretty obviously false; what do you think of my actual interactions that I've had, most notably my questioning of IS?

I pulled up your ISO before you made this post, hoping it was super short, and it wasn't. Ugh. Without reading it, you've definitely done more than just setup spec, but in all honesty the majority of your posting hasn't stuck out in any way. There's nothing that I recall from reading the game that came from you, no original thought that's actually pinged as having any depth of significance to it. A read through might make me find something, but initially there's basically nothing that I remember about you, which is bad when you actually have been posting.

Oh lol. I thought you wrote HS, not MH. wow. I have no idea how I made that connection.

Alright.

MH is being lazy, and I don't like it. As I said before pie is within my real of suspicion as well, so...they're on the low likelihood of being town/town spectrum, but blah. Do you want me to actually ISo someone SS? I'll be a lot more useful after I do that.

Yeah iso inspector. I'm paranoid about the slot. He expressed a TR on me when Parama was bombing the thread with SCUM SLIP-LYNCH SHADOW.

hmm, I think inspector migth be a short ISO. Alright. That and Pie are happening first.

[Cerberus v666]

Fuck maybe my read through was entirely too cursory. Inspector also had a bunch to say! *sigh*

[Cerberus v666]

I like that idea, force scum to kill early.
But I'd like everyone to have an established read list before we reach that point.

Just for you baby, I'll whip up a new tier list (mainly cuz I love making these tier lists in games lol)

Nahdia
Parama, inspectorscout, Human Sequencer, Cerberus v666
Kagami, MariaR
The_Jester, Dunnstral, pieguyn
MiniDeathStar, mhsmith0, Gamma Emerald
Shadow_step, Vedith

Okay well it wasn't that new I guess similar to the last one.

Notes:
- Gamma moved down due to ISOing him, the large gaps of illogical thinking to come from town that he has. His posts read more like "Hey looks guys I'm trying to help" rather than actually ~trying~ to help. It feels like he latches onto posts then comments about those, then moves on. Like claiming that HS was using the logic of scum not reading the main thread as one of her main points, while I felt like it was an offhanded remark by her. He just took it, exaggerated it, then said "Hey guys I'll post a ~helpful~ thing here".
- Dunn went up because from metaing him and talking to inspector I got the feeling that he does this weird style of posting random troll and fluff posts regardless of alignment. I still think he has very little substance in his posts though, like he doesn't have concrete pushes that he looks like he truly believes in. However from the ISO I felt the trying to pair with Maria was genuine, and I think scum would have likely dropped the insistence much earlier in the hope to just ~gets~ a partner as opposed to stay out in the cold.

-Pie moved down because I really see nothing in her ISO that she can't be faking. She's being helpful, yes. She has reads, yes. But like... nothing that can't be faked.

It's one of my qualms with people like that (which is why I brought up the Equinox point), it's very hard for me to get a grasp on the people that don't post with ~passion~.

*nods@bold*

[Cerberus v666]

Make sure you get your last thoughts and reads out, Gamma.

Last thoughts and reads? Are you seriously going to leave the dance? Like fuck the plan whoever suggested if certain people leaving right now.

THIS IS NOT A NORMAL GAME.

You leaving does NOTHING to help the game state that just lynching you wouldn't do, while giving us more information, so don't fucking do it.

[Cerberus v666]

No, it does not Vedith. The information lynch arguments are also shitty.

Pedit: Vedith, did you even read my posts about this matter? How is it better for us to have information before scum make their kill? Seriously?

[Cerberus v666]

I really hope Gamma flips town so Vedith doesn't feel like he's doing the right thing.

[Cerberus v666]

No, a town flip means you don't get to look back on this mistake with the benefit of any sort of result oriented bias. You're forced to acknowledge that you fucked up and killed a town/town pair.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I'd prefer you didn't do it at all and just talked people into voting for your pair, because at least then we'd get to see how much pushback against the idea exists(because honestly, the wagons so far haven't been scary enough to elicit much information from).

@Vedith: in the universe where you're willing to remove yourself, YOU ARE TOWN(or playing against win con). In the universe where you remove yourself, snd Gamma flips town as well, you're both town.

Logic. It's like magic.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, parama: I'm not voting because I believe going straight to second dance before any lynches is optimal. I also don't vote much in general, so that's something you'll have to learn to live with.

@Vedith: THIS GAME IS NOT LIKE OTHER GAMES. The vig, in the scenario you described, WOULD be acting anti-town if their vig shot would also kill them. The VALUE of a vig shooting a town slot who would otherwise be a mislynch is that it SAVES TOWN from wasting the mislynch(which they have a limited number of). In the scenario where town loses TWO town slots from the vig shot thats meant to "clarify" things, town has essentially lost a mislynch, and that's what happens here when a town slot leaves the dance, dragging their town partner in tow. It doesn't MATTER that you're scumreading him. What you're doing IS NOT using a vig shot, it's using a one shot that lynches someone and kills you. Those are very different things.

[Cerberus v666]

SS, Maria, Nahdia: HS/Parama? Yes/no?

[Cerberus v666]

I look forward to you digging a deep hole that I will then fill with you inside it.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I could do the breakdown, assuming all scum paired with town, but it's probably likely enough to be worth considering.

Also, HS: you do realize you and your partner are the driving forces behind the games bloat yes? You guys, and the people who are under pressure. The only slot here who is posting a shitload for little reason is dunnstral.

Point is, glass houses etc.

(Also, the longer D1 is the better imo, as long as EVERYONE is participating. NOTHING is more valuable D6 than examining reads and progressions and the entirety of play, really, on D1.)

[Cerberus v666]

like do you realize splitting our options further is a great way to not ever come to any sort of agreement and thus hand the game over the mafia?

How would we be handing the game over to mafia? We have like 4 days or something, and then another 8 after that.

[Cerberus v666]

SS, Maria, Nahdia: HS/Parama? Yes/no?

Are you asking our opinion on whether they are scum or no?

There are many more scummier people who need to go first.

Yep, scum or no is the question. Well, lynch or no is the question, actually, but it means the same thing.

Also, your falling for the trap. It's not "who is scum", it's " who is town".

Are you saying that they're town?

Pedit: which distancing IS?

[Cerberus v666]

Got it. And, sorry, mobile, just using the shortest identifier I can find.

So, out of fhe other 6 pairs, which one contains schm?

[Cerberus v666]

Yes
I understand what I'm doing
I'm filibustering at this point, I have stuff I'm saying and I won't stop talking until Vedith promises to not leave, a lynch is secured, or time runs out.

Filibustering through vla, such dedication.

[Cerberus v666]

It was at scout gamma, since he seems to have identified that you and HS are scum distsncing.

[Cerberus v666]

A global no lynch vote to move to intermission will keep things moving and avoid having the game stagnate.

You do lose a town/town pairs thoughts on the first two flips, but that's a sacrifice well worth making to essentially force scum to play a 100% day game.11 town/3 scum nightless game is perfectly fine.

Pedit: stop being personally frustrated. Go do something else, come back later. We have 5 days to arrive at a lynch. There's little reason for such haste.

Regarding HS(or anyone else) not caring about the game because it's taking too long to get a lynch: GET OVER IT. You signed up to play the game, play the fucking game the way it's playing out instead of bitching about how it's not working out the way you wanted it to.

[Cerberus v666]

Vedith confirmed terrible at mafia.

Got ir.

[Cerberus v666]

Fhghggggghhggvhg
I FUCKING HATE YOUR IDIOTIC ASS AND WOULD BE RATHER PLEASED IF YOU LEFT THIS SITE

Uncalled for Gamma. Seriously. I agree it was dumb, but I believe your verbiage is theoretically actionable.

Pedit: I haven't started to try yet, but you clearly are, and you STILL made this terrible decision.

"It's like having two day phases"

No, it's fucking not, THIS IS NOT A NORMAL GAME.

It's like you suicided while simultaneously stealing control of the lynch from the rest of the town.

[Cerberus v666]

Vedith=scum mvp.

Not sure if going to night is worth it anymore. :/

[Cerberus v666]

The_Jester - MiniDeathStar
Ser Arthur Dayne - inspectorscout
mhsmith0 - pieguyn

These are the pairs I'm officially marking for death.

why you do this Nahdia. I specifically asked you to not influence any more than necessary.

[Cerberus v666]

The_Jester - MiniDeathStar
Ser Arthur Dayne - inspectorscout
mhsmith0 - pieguyn

These are the pairs I'm officially marking for death.

why you do this Nahdia. I specifically asked you to not influence any more than necessary.

holy christ this is so awful

why should the mod confirmed townie's influence be limited? why are you trying to do this??? there is literally no protown reason for this?????

I'm really well and truly done I don't have the patience rn to deal with this disaster zone

Bdcause then, if she's WRONG scum( amd town) can just sheep her without any accountability, that's why.

If she's SURE on something she should push it hard, sure, but if youre not SURE, then it helps scum hide.

MDS: wtf are you going on about, nobody is even talking much about lynching you. Nahdia suggested three pairs, without giving any indication if the order matters, and everybody else who is talking right now isn't pushing you.

[Cerberus v666]

Just watch. Me pointing it out makes it less likely, but you already saw TWO people IMMEDIATELY sheeping her, without giving reasons of their own. One did so blatantly, one did so subtly.

[Cerberus v666]

For the record, they are: Kagami, mhsmith, 1 of {inspector, Arthur, pieguyn (or smith)}

Why is smith on here twice? Do you bave separate scumreads on both slots?

@Dunnstral: sure, but that doesn't mean he can't sheep the rest of it.

[Cerberus v666]

Pie and smith are paired together. It's a needless distinction.

[Cerberus v666]

20+ pages

I will skip them all.

Is shadow lynched yet.

I'm not putting an ounce of effort till that happens.

Vedith and Gamma flipped town.

Shadow isn't scum, get good yo. :p

[Cerberus v666]

So you scumread your partner and they are your preferred lynch?

[Cerberus v666]

Who are the most likely T/T pairs at this moment?

[Cerberus v666]

Where is shadow/Maria then? Nowhere on your radar even though they've been the primary topic of conversation for so long? Are they simply...not most likely scum, but not likely enough to be town?

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. Got it. Thanks pie!

[Cerberus v666]

@everyone:

If Jester and I are both town, who do you think is the scum?

at the point of you posting this i would've said two of shadow/gamma/sad, and from the ladies, i guess, one of pieguy/kagami? i am having a lot harder of a time reading the ladies than the gentlemen atm. and i honestly don't think either of you/jester are likely scum atm either though it's not my towniest pair either

Why are you specifically splitting up the scum pools between gentlemen and ladies, and why in such specific numbers?

Bdcause then, if she's WRONG scum( amd town) can just sheep her without any accountability, that's why.

If she's SURE on something she should push it hard, sure, but if youre not SURE, then it helps scum hide.

god, you're treating everyone like stupid babies who can't think for themselves.

if scum blindly sheep, i'll notice, other people will notice, we have enough competent players in this game that it will absolutely get noticed if scum try and do this

and we also get the reads of living, mod-confirmed townie, which is always a net positive

@nahdia: please ignore cerberus and be as open with your reads and thoughts as possible

That's because town is stupid. Town is always stupid. People are already bitching about ga me length and not reading closely, they're not going to put the time and effort in to notice.

[Cerberus v666]

I have an intense desire to vote HS/parama, but I don't understand it.

[Cerberus v666]

Ya, MDS whole wall about kagami is quite reasonable. I noticed this blank vote dropping tendency when, immediately after Vedith suicided, kagami decided to vote for a no lynch.

That..that just seemed really weird.

[Cerberus v666]

Touche kagami, regarding the no lynch thing. Value goes down over time though.

The way you've been voting and the content you've had with regards to those votes IS questionable though.

[Cerberus v666]

HS, what two other pairs contain scum? OR what 3 pairs are town/town?

[Cerberus v666]

I want to have 2 flips and at least 1 lynch wagon to go over in my PT during intermission tbh and NL runs counterproductive to that

We really don't gain anything from NLing either

Currently 7 pairs, 3 have scum in them most likely, and after intermission it will be 6 pairs, 3 with scum, so strictly speaking the odds of hitting scum go up in absolute terms by lynching after intermission.

In practical terms, considering that they'll simply shoot a town/town pair that would have never been mislynched(such as my own), the odds won't actually change, BUT scums ability to sculpt the end game will be diminished, ESPECIALLY since gamma/Vedith were a major topic of conversation, and they have relatively little idea of who actually wants which pairs lynched after town ML's SS/Maria.

Basically, this forces them to just shoot Nahdia and me, instead of playing for some more complex line. And if they decide to not shoot us, it means Nahdia can actually interact with me in our PT so she can decide if she TRs me or not, shoot that's win/win imo..:p

Jester AND paramas arguments against are weak.

The main concern I have right now is really whether the value has gone away, since immediately after the vedith/gamma flip scum essentially had no idea how people's reads have changed. Since people have adjusted since, we've denied them less information than we could have.

Pedit: MDS, trust me, optimizing gaming setups is what I do.

[Cerberus v666]

If you guys aren't going to vote, it's basically impossible to lynch scum while you're alive.

Define you guys. You mean Nahdia and I?

We'll vote at some point. At least, I know I will.

Pedit:Pfft mhsmith, I'm super obvtown by now. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb you are pro-NL yet you do not vote it.

And you do not put a vote anywhere else.

Sure. Because there's no reason to yet. *shrug* if I see the suppprt for a NL develop I'll vote there(but I'd also sorta like to actually put out real reads and stuff before then, since I expect to be dead at the stqrt of the next dance and so far I've done nothing). As far as actual lynches go, I only vote when I have a high degree of certainty that we're lynching scum, to gambit, or to prevent a NL in a standard game.

Pedit: such impatience. It's locked for like 48 hours.

...

[Cerberus v666]

Eh, untrue. If they shoot someone else, all they need to do is convince Nahdia I'm scum so she leaves. :p

@smith: meh. Reasonable way to prioritize things, but my entire NL thing should make me obvtown(since that would mean if I were scum, I would have to dodge even more lynches as a suspect) but whateva.

[Cerberus v666]

Eh, untrue. If they shoot someone else, all they need to do is convince Nahdia I'm scum so she leaves. :p

@smith: meh. Reasonable way to prioritize things, but my entire NL thing should make me obvtown(since that would mean if I were scum, I would have to dodge even more lynches as a suspect) but whateva.

I don't know how to tell you this,

But you're being more useless than Nahdia right now.

Agreed.

I told her my reads at least. :p

[Cerberus v666]

@MDS: You should expect me to be able to read you. Our one game together you were an IC at the time you replaced in, and I've never seen you as scum.

[Cerberus v666]

@MDS: You should expect me to be able to read you. Our one game together you were an IC at the time you replaced in, and I've never seen you as scum.

This should read should NOT, not should. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Also the fact that you're not reading my posts and said something like "are me and pie the only ones who don't tr each other"

Speaking of that, Nahdia has her doubts about me. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

What's your reason for asking me what my reason for mentioning it is? Is there any answer I could possibly give that's more helpful to town than scum?

[Cerberus v666]

....

....

That's essentially the same question I already refused to answer.

[Cerberus v666]

Hello everyone. I am back, had a busy 48 hours this weekend. I'll try to get back into this properly since my slot should be dead soon.

[Cerberus v666]

I would be very appreciative if everyone would reiterate their answers to the question that I've asked people a couple times this week namely:

Who are the T/T pairs you've identified?

What pairs are most likely to contain scum?

I'm sure this is all obvious upon a reread of your ISO, but I would very much appreciate a simple expression of the answers to these questions to use as a jumping off point as I examine things. Thanks.

[Cerberus v666]

this is honestly my reaction to this game as a whole

same

...

*sigh*

I'm really fucking sorry everyone. Seriously. Life has fucked me over hard and this has not been something I could actually focus on. I haven't updated my thoughts since my read through back on like page 81, and though I've been keeping up I haven't ISO'd anyone or fucking done anything.

Scum, don't kill us so that way i can make up for sucking during the first half of this game and catch some of you. I mean look, both Nahdia and I are totally nonthreatening.

^^

[Cerberus v666]

w-wait 3 scum dudes is totally possible?
ahgurhaghtg WELL THEN

...so I'm NOT insane for having all my stronger scumreads be dudes.

How did yo miss that? It was basically the ONLY thing discussed pre-dance, besides all the pushing to get shadow left behind.

[Cerberus v666]

Hey why don't you explain why instead of being useless as always

Because we went over it on like page fucking 5 which means you either don't care about this game enough to read it because you're scum or just bullshitting randomly.

Why is this a concern when Maria does it but you ignore the fact that Parama did the same the page before your post?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey why don't you explain why instead of being useless as always

Because we went over it on like page fucking 5 which means you either don't care about this game enough to read it because you're scum or just bullshitting randomly.

Why is this a concern when Maria does it but you ignore the fact that Parama did the same the page before your post?

This applies to you as well Dunn.

[Cerberus v666]

How am I suppose to answer that it's a rhetorical question

Asking me how I missed it is just like asking someone

"omg how did you miss that word in that word search or omg how did you miss that space ship"

I just did.

MariaR: Exactly what mixture if male and female scum have you been expecting this whole time?

Same question to you Parama.

[Cerberus v666]

So you did not have an expectation of which gender would have more, but you were certain that there would not be three of a single gender?

[Cerberus v666]

Now, with that said, I don't believe any town lady should so blithely accept a dance from any gentleman. This is a chance to weed out a villain in our midst, or force the villains to dance together at the least.

Speaking of which...2 mafia gentlemen, one lady? Vice versa? Anyone have any thoughts on what's more likely?

here's where the argument began

Yep. I was fishing for someone noticing that I didn't even suggest 3 of one gender, and seeing if anyone actuallu expressed a strong belief that one mixture was more likelu than another. Nobody did though.

@SAD: naw man, robot crown definitely goes to me.

Parama: not sure if your argument is especially significant regarding SAD. There has definitely been conversation about three scum of one gender, and given the relative speed of this series of posts, I find it implausible that he went and checked.

Does scum!him NOT go check? I don't think so.

[Cerberus v666]

WERE THE TOP WAGON?

WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN NOT HAPPENING.

Okay I'm gonna stop answering you because you really are delusional.

You can be the top wagon without having a chance of getting lynched.

Mastin like to do this thing a lot where no matter at how many votes he is he can predict whether he can get lynched. I like to call it the potential energy of a lynch.

Your lynch basically has little potential energy when everyone who does want to lynch you gets on it. And they don't make enough to lynch you.

Take another example, of say Jester-MDS wagon. It has high potential energy no matter if it is a smaller wagon. Why? Because everyone is more willing to comprise on them, and more people have at least one of them leaning scum or scummy.

I call it gauging the thread temperature(with regards to a specific slot)

[Cerberus v666]

That number, that gauge, goes out the window when you get under 24 hours though, fyi. People will pile on to whatever ti make sure a lynch happens(though maybe not on this game).

I sorta want a VC right now..

[Cerberus v666]

I'm quite okay with a HS/Parama lynch btw.

I'll even vote.

VOTE: HS/Parama

(This is the definition of a low energy option though, but it's possible both of the other targets of wagons, being survivalistic, will all join, bringing this up to 6, at which point the game will probably just default to this or a no lynch.)

[Cerberus v666]

That's more like the way things work 72 hours out.

Down under a day, people arent so reasonable most of the time, because they don't have time to sit around waiting for answers. A few people will drop a vote, and then everybody else will sheep out of paranoia that a no lynch will happen.

Anyways, this is fluff, except for the part where I told the two other wagons thst they should pile onto this one if they want to survive. :p

[Cerberus v666]

That's more like the way things work 72 hours out.

Down under a day, people arent so reasonable most of the time, because they don't have time to sit around waiting for answers. A few people will drop a vote, and then everybody else will sheep out of paranoia that a no lynch will happen.

Mehhh maybe I have different timesets because I'm used to playing/spectating on another site before my haitus where games have 36hr long days and 8hr nights. So I am much more used to reading and feeling the dynamics of lynches with a few hours left.

*nods* I came from a site with 48h days and 24h nights, so yeah, makes sense. People start freaking out here when there's 3 or 4 days left.

[Cerberus v666]

Naw Parama, just had a stupid gut suspicion regarding both of you honestly, which I was never able to go research so fuck it, I'm happy with you gone.

Plus you're the pair who, as a whole, will remove the most bloat from the game. :p

[Cerberus v666]

Honestly, I don't want to lynch MDS, and I lack cause to lynch Jester.

[Cerberus v666]

Idk why smith and pie didn't have that convo in their PT.

Elaborate on why the town had to be subjected to that please, either of you.

[Cerberus v666]

I sincerely hope both HS/Parama are town, their reaction after my flip is going to be gold.

I'll leave if Insta is too far away near deadline.

Scum is in
SAD/Inspec
Dunn/Kagami
Mh/Pie

Cerb I expect much more from you, wreck scum for me please.

Sorry Shadow.. there's a 75% chance my plan B of appearing useless works and I live through the intermission, if so I shall indeed wreck scum for you.

If not, we can judge the town together from the dead thread. Win/win really.

[Cerberus v666]

Idk why smith and pie didn't have that convo in their PT.

Elaborate on why the town had to be subjected to that please, either of you.

you're town, but don't make posts like this

It's a very very serious question.

I see a lot of wall posts that seem to be largely aimed at explaining things to each other. I don't understand why one of you wouldn't realize that there was no benefit to actually having that conversation in thread.

[Cerberus v666]

It's because I'm essentially obvtown to anyone who knows what to look for..:p

@pie: I suppose I disagree, primarily because of the stifling effect such exchanges tend to have on conversation throughout the thread. I believe it's an anti-town sentiment.
@smith: do you agree with pies thoughts on this matter?

[Cerberus v666]

@pie: I suppose I disagree, primarily because of the stifling effect such exchanges tend to have on conversation throughout the thread. I believe it's an anti-town sentiment.

I don't agree with this mentality at all. in fact, I actually think it's far more toxic than anything I've said or done in this game.

if you don't want to read it, skip it - but there is no reason I or anyone else should be forced to play suboptimally just because other people find it unpleasant, especially when they always have the option to just skip over it if they don't want to engage it.

I agree. I'm not one to complain about people posting a lot etc. The mentality your attacking isn't one I share....however, I know a LOT of players DO feel that way, and their eyes glaze over when they see series of walls, and it inspires apathy in the town.

I expect you to know better than to drown town in something that induces apathy within 20 hours of deadline.

[Cerberus v666]

Lmao. Yeah joining with shadow made no sense. I cleared you because of that, and shadow was of course town because he's obviously fucking town..p

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, see you guys tomorrow if you're lucky!

[Cerberus v666]

oh yeah and cerb your gambit was literally insane

What gambit? There were no gambits.

There was merely me not having the time to play this game properly, and trying to throw in some tiny nudges to make it so there was at least some chance a positive effect could come from it.

@mhsmith: I'm not sure what you're referring to about playing towards scum wincon?

[Cerberus v666]

Read the scum pt. Pretty boring actually. Much disappoint.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I realized the *only* people who I wanted lynched at any point were all in scum pairs.

That's unfortunate. Believe I expressed suspicon on Dunn and Kagami separately, Parama early then HS later. I don't think I ever said anything about SAD/scout though.