Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Joshz]

hi creeps/gamma

reading

[Joshz]

ive only read 2 pages so far and i think io's scum rofl

[Joshz]

Mafiascum is life.

UNVOTE: Eric

VOTE: Uzi

Useless posts. Constantly. I really haven't seen much content

Creeps, filler is NAI. Please unvote.

lol

[Joshz]

VOTE: Gemerald
(Yes, I do this just to bug you)

I dislike the immediate demand for a partner claim. That is not good play and benefits scum.

Creeps, why are you not buying the claim?

Never do. Ever. I once doubted a proven jailor claim on TOS. I don't trust.

Lack of trust is as bad as too much trust. Caution is required for proper play, but this goes a bit far man! Link, town has to work together and form trust networks to win! Trusting nobody is arguably antitown.

Why the vote on Eric?

I play the same way. Guilty until proven innocent prevents a scum who manages to become lock town from winning.

[Joshz]

ok full disclosure: i only skimmed
town {misa, luv}
slight town {twoface}
null {frank, hiraki, gamma, aristophanes, tvd, creeps}
slight scum {vedith}
scum {scumdearsaretasty, fitz}

sorry but io's page 1 posts are fucking awful and scumdearsaretasty's content has all been mediocre / hasnt changed my mind on it. fitz has been covered by twoface. vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that. hiraki is probably slightly more scum than the other nulls but potato potato hes active. creeps is closer to null but ive already sr'd him and led his mislynch once this week only for a JOAT flip, i dont intend to do it again. his play is pretty close to NAI. if you lynch him its policy because i doubt hes scum. misa/luv obv mason claims for NOW, but note i sr'd luv a bit before his claim so they arent inno yet. twoface makes good arguments against fitz + i like him defending eric whos town and it felt more genuine than hiraki.

[Joshz]

ive actually never considered page one content as scummy as that.

but anyways, im going to refrain from voting until i see the vote count oo

[Joshz]

When's dl

[Joshz]

ty

[Joshz]

VOTE: havingfitz

You aren't getting away this time.

What happened?

Nothing happened. I'm just participating in RVS.

Why do you feel the need to participate in RVS?

Digging this out. Why did you think you needed to ask only a particular someone a question which answer is obvious?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I didnt see a good reason to vote him.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Best bet for me ...

Why is Uzi scum?

Reading through the chat and based on my gut, I have a feeling its Uzi ... Although I have no evidence to support it ...

Don't be lazy. Gut is based on something. What is it?

His activity in page 2 and 3 .... He is ubiquitous, not too active but active enough .. That is scummy behaviour ... His analysis seems off, his analysis is not backed with proof ...

My next bet on Mafia would be Gamma and Twizted(you) .. Well, lets see how the game pans out ...

Im hosting a dethy on another forum and thats taking up most of my time ... Sorry if I was not active before

What was wrong about his analysis? Voting someone with a baseless accusation. Probably not a thing town will do.

Question: Can we role claim ?

This post is screaming mafia. It's like trying to show he can claim if he needs to. And he says he has 7 years mafia experience and yet doesn't know when to claim. I bet it was an attempt to show himself as a claimable town.

VOTE: misa

VOTE: misa

why

if you're sort of angleshooting (bc im posting on a different game), this is really not the time

Not sure why you even would think that's the reason. I voted you cause I think your vote on Eric is garbage. Your reason for voting him is garbage and I disagree that him wanting to rush the day is a scumtell. Looks like going after an easy target which I feel is more likely to come from town. Some of Eric's posts aren't great but nothing looks like they have scummy intentions. Yours on the other hand do to me.

Actually, TwoFace has been defending and backing Eric up. May we know the reason? and i saw no scum-intending posts of Misa whatsoever.

Mafiascum is life.

UNVOTE: Eric

VOTE: Uzi

Useless posts. Constantly. I really haven't seen much content

He had 1 or 2 such posts in the recent pages. And Why will you vote for a single fluff post? You yourself used to fluff a lot in SC Forums as town. You should know that town can fluff as well.

I would rather vote this rn than remain on a stupid RVS vote I'm not pushing.
VOTE: LUV

This is a straight push for a claim. Why pressure him more? for a claim?

UNVOTE: Uzi
While I don't buy this claim I won't risk it. Not yet at least

VOTE: Eric
Back to this

An attempt to discredit the claim?

I feel like Ari is town (Excluding claimed town). Cant say about others. And These are my top suspects:
Eric (For voting with a baseless accusation)
Creeps (For stated reasons)
Gamma (For pushing a claim)
TwoFace (There's no reason a town will try to defend someone D1 exept if they are scum and know he is town to get on the good side or defending a scum-bud and when the scum flips, Say "If was scum, Will i buddy a maf so early?" Maybe I'm overthinking abut it but I may be very right.)

his post was not screaming mafia, it was screaming newb lynchbait.

Actually, TwoFace has been defending and backing Eric up. May we know the reason? and i saw no scum-intending posts of Misa whatsoever.

I'm confused. You quoted my reason yet asked me for my reason. Why?

Actually I asked for the reason and assumed the reasons you will have.

TwoFace (There's no reason a town will try to defend someone D1 exept if they are scum and know he is town to get on the good side or defending a scum-bud and when the scum flips, Say "If was scum, Will i buddy a maf so early?" Maybe I'm overthinking abut it but I may be very right.)

so why rule out the possibility that I think Eric is town and I'm defending him cause that's what you do for town reads? You seem like an experienced player so leaving that out of your possible scenarios is odd.


Eric as I said earlier is an easy target. I fee like he's going to be a mislynch. I'm going to try and prevent mislynches if I can.

Have you ever seen Eric play? His posts are no where near the townie post. He says he has 7 year mafia experience but has he come up with any good thing to get him as town? You'll only know he is town if you are scum or you have played with him before. Noone defends someone unless he has some good posts spot on. Now, I'm thinking you are trying to get on a good side of Eric. You are scum either way. How are you so damn sure it will be a mislynch? Give me reasons how/why Eric is town.

You guys must like me lol. I am town and not mafia is all I have to say ... You guys asked me for my reason as to voting for Uzi and I told it and suddenly I'm the guilty one? Go learn to analyse and then play this game ... I will be a mislynch, I assure you ...

You'll be a mislynch if you wont defend any accusations on you. By saying "I am town not mafia" wont reduce any sus on you. If you really have 7 years maf experience, Defend properly and Contribute at least something.

Eric....pretend you are scum. Would you expect that saying you are town is all it took to remove suspicions towards you?

this is dumb, i expected more from you

This is dumb? How was that dumb? I expected more from you, really.

TwoFace: Very active(good). Early stat theory fluff (~bad).
Shades mason (bad). Misreps (bad) Ted and gets into tiff. Naked
Misa/mason vote (bad). Defensive of Eric (ffr). Says vote on Misa is
gut (Post 262) despite having just given
several reasons for voting her (bad).
Reiterates vote on Misa doesn't have a lot of merit.
General snarkiness. = Scum lean.

Early stat theory stuff is null since that was the conversation going on - to say otherwise is scum motivated imo unless you can explain how staying active in the conversation is bad which nobody can cause it's not.
Shade mason? Where? - pretty sure I didn't so possible misrep here
I certainly didn't misrep ted. Misrep in your part
Naked votes aren't bad - you should know better than that
Defending a town read one who's most likely lynch bait - protown.
Vote on gut but gave reasons is somehow bad? No because gut is usually able to be explained by pointing to things. If you were a newb I could see you making this mistake but you aren't a newb
My vote on misa was good imo, reiterating it isn't bad
Snarkiness - this is non ai, especially since it's my personality

So fitz is probably scum. Too many non ai or non truths being twisted into appearing bad. No way an experienced town player comes to this conclusion.


VOTE: fitz

How many gams have you played, TwoFace? Your OMGUS is pretty suspicious at this moment.

havingfitz im v disappointed that you could give eric a scum lean

i thought you would agree with my mindset

There's no way he's town. It's obvious Eric is town. vote fitz with me

Because he voted you, He isnt town? Straight OMGUSing.

And you might say i am defending Fitz right now but i always defend someone who is being OMGUS'ed. OMGUS is no good for town. It only ends up having two townies under the radar or a scum putting a town under the radar.

to reply to this and a post later: OMGUS is not a scum tell, its just something some players will do and is overall NAI. I OMGUS when I'm town being scum read a fair bit because oh my god they do suck :^)

Actually Now i feel TwoFace and Eric both are town. I mis-interpreted few things, i guess.

My Current sus list:
Creeps
Gamma

Others are null for now.

you go from suspecting someone and lynching another person immediately to trusting their townie read and them themselves with no transitioning post? really?



* -- *

Creeps is one of those guys whos unproductive as both town and scum. he is as lynchbaity as a person could get. theres no point lynching him at this stage because his flip gives us almost nothing to go off of.

[Joshz]

him tr'ing eric is town indicative to me, because i know eric was actually town when he was easy as fuck for scum to push. the reason he gets more cred for it is that hiraki's didn't feel as genuine, whereas i liked tf's attitude about it.

[Joshz]

ive already bitched at one game for being dead today, lets not make it two!!

[Joshz]

VOTE: scumdeers

what is your plan if creeps flips town? its a complete waste of a lynch. he is nai lynchbait.

also im voting hiraki what??? i guess that was eric

[Joshz]

i explained it in my last post a bit but

i know its weird for such little content but io is REALLY scummy to me. deers has not done anything to change my mind. i consider him null or maybe slightly on the scum side, but coupled with io that changes.

[Joshz]

VOTE: Wyv

Statistically one of those replacements is scum.

I mean you have to take into account the reason for replacement.
Replacement for inactivity is very different from replacing out.
Theoretically the former is however many scum to town there are.

Of which is a rd of the player list that replaced out so yeah statistics show 1's probably scum.

I just realized the link GE gave hasn't been updated in 6 years (and if there's an updated version, I don't see it)

It's hard to say (and I don't think we have a user in this game that's been playing since 2010), but I think it's safe to say that meta has changed since 2010.

Especially

in such an "it's your playstyle" type genre such as mafia.

It also said it was often ignored.

@IO: In your #6 and #10 are you being serious? Like do you plan on actually voting based on those statistics? Or do you have impressions of the game so far?

Nah I'm not that stupid. Like someone said you could say that on any 4 players you pick.

in what world are these townie posts

[Joshz]

hey mathblade

you said yourself that compromises result in townie lynchces. WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME TO COMPROMISE ON A HIRAKI LYNCH??? the last game i played on here and first one ive finished (so i can discuss it!!) i compromised on two lynches, both were mislynches, and we still won due to godly vig but the problem remains. i think io is scum. i am confident in that read. join my wagon if youre so desperate for a lynch. SCUMDEERS is SCUM, DEER mathblade.

[Joshz]

It was a play on dear

[Joshz]

there is scum in vedith and scumdeers :*

[Joshz]

I don't particularly like mathblade (no offense meant I dislike most people I'm an asshole) but idt he's scum. Yknow who's scum? Vedith!

VOTE: vedith

[Joshz]

This is mostly for twiszted slot. Looking at twiszted content, it's disgustingly bad. Vedith has idled and not been particularly townie himself, so while his content is more of a null read twiszteds was enough to make him likely scum.

[Joshz]

My next bet on Mafia would be Gamma and Twizted(you)

So Gamma is scum, and I'm scum bussing him on d1 for... what reason, exactly?

You never said why we're scum, btw.

I'm on mobile so no beautiful wall post but this whole section of posts is bad. His interaction with Eric is very very awkward and negative, and Eric scum reading him is at least something since he's conftown to me and that's another townie opinion. He was obvious lynchbait and twiszted pounced on it.

[Joshz]

I thought I posted regarding mathblade but apparently I didn't. Huh.

There's someone in the game called nacho mama?????

[Joshz]

tunnel vedith instead!

[Joshz]

Okay then, MathBlade seems determined to tunnel me.

Will be interesting to see if Fritz changes he vote on you if you get more votes.

VOTE: Gamma

tunnel vedith instead!

Stop trying to coast the game with a fake read.
Tell me your thoughts on Fritz, Math, Ari and Gamma.

It's not a fake read, you're scum. Stop diverting attention.

[Joshz]

VOTE: yowlakcorb8

[Joshz]

I'm gonna be on for the hours before dl dw there's no risk of me idling and not being able to change my vote

[Joshz]

I hope there are funnier people itt

[Joshz]

im not lynching creeps or gamma right now

i will consider lynching hiraki if thats who it comes down to

[Joshz]

yea 18 hours really isnt that long to discuss, especially since a lot of us will be asleep for a lot of that. but creeps is town and this wagon is dumb.

[Joshz]

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

[Joshz]

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

We have under a day to reach majority and get a lynch. What makes you think that people are going to see the light on Vedith and suddenly vote him out if you're not going to put in the work to get it done? Who else would you vote as a compromise?

i already said id potentially vote hiraki out of the 3 current wagons. i would also most likely vote for fitz, scumdeers, and frank just for idling so much as attention is off of him, though i dont think id vote anyone else.

[Joshz]

Go duck off Mr Mason. You think that claim excuses you from putting in the work? No it doesn't. I've done my job. You want me to convince you on fitz?

Get to reading. All of my reasons are in there. - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8590645

And stop criticizing people for not doing shit until you've done something yourself.

tbh sheep me on vedith and watch the scum flip, thatll be something

im in a really really time consuming game on another site, and this game in particular out of the ones im in just isnt drawing my attention fsr. i just dont feel as involved, maybe its because this is the first time ive subbed and its a weird change.

[Joshz]

ive scrolled through the thread and isos a ton and i feel confident gut wise about vedith being scum, but i dont have a case atm that i can post so for now and i get im not being very convincing. ill be on as i said and ill vote fitz tomorrow if it has no traction by then.

[Joshz]

he constantly goes for easy pushes. the first thing he does itg is go for tvd. when that doesnt pan out, he goes for eric, the ubernoob. he gets off eventually, but like, eric was obvtown to me, though clearly im biased knowing he was townie. there are only scum reasons to push a supernoob like that, as opposed to a noob of my level who is at least competent. more importantly, literally every post of his was contentless and empty. he did not start any GOOD discussons, or join in in any. #175 is also p bad, the only game ive completed on this site scum delegated to things such as 'x is scum and bonus points who tells me why', aka tricking people into subconsciously analyzing scummy traits of a person and ignoring their actual stance. twiszted was super scummy and nothing has changed my view on that.

[Joshz]

Dl is in how many hours?

[Joshz]

Post dinguses

Unvote spam bot

VOTE: fitz

[Joshz]

If they aren't conftown they're potentially well played scum and can win the game easily. It is definitely not impossible to suspect nearly everyone lol

[Joshz]

VOTE: fitz
good wagon

[Joshz]

6 hours

[Joshz]

almost all fitz did was argue with twoface lmfao theres not much to go off of
i really REALLY doubt that was bussing, lines like 'TF has yet to make a good argument. But I'm sure you would townread him for defending Eric. Kind of like OMGYA.' in fitz's reply to me tring twoface dont feel like distancing/bussing.
someone more experienced should read into hiraki's interactions with fitz because they felt like partner interactions as opposed to whiteknighting, and i very much believe hiraki could be a scum partner. im not experienced enough to tell if its likely fitz would so blatantly defend his partner so frequently though.
reading through creeps' content its actually all pretty awful despite me refusing to join his wagon yesterday. but, more importantly, his votes are nearly all on conftowns (myself when it was eric, mathblade, luv) and only one on someone else (deers). this combined with his lack of content is bleh. his iso does remind me gamma is a buzzkill tho.
gamma's interactions with fitz felt tvs, not much more to say
changed my mind a bit on vedith but i still scum read twiszted pretty hard so he is only slightly town overall as a slot
frank really feels like lurkerscum
aristophanes is null for me

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}


started this post after host update; ill read the above and if i need to change something theres ebwop

[Joshz]

VOTE: frank

@nacho - seems like frank and deer are mutual reads because i hadnt read your reads post before posting mine. this is obviously a very good thing as both of us seperately came to the same conclusion on both of them.

[Joshz]

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

We have under a day to reach majority and get a lynch. What makes you think that people are going to see the light on Vedith and suddenly vote him out if you're not going to put in the work to get it done? Who else would you vote as a compromise?

i already said id potentially vote hiraki out of the 3 current wagons. i would also most likely vote for fitz, scumdeers, and frank just for idling so much as attention is off of him, though i dont think id vote anyone else.

i forgot posting this but apparently i also was only willing to lynch those 3 yday lmao

[Joshz]

nacho, can you explain why you consider Aristophanes lock town?

[Joshz]

it looked sus to me too fwiw

[Joshz]

why dont u explain to me why my vote looks bad

[Joshz]

Sorry if this is dumb but isn't the point of masons to do things ie discuss and iron out reads with someone you know you can trust? I'd have thought they'd come back with a joint reads post

[Joshz]

id point out that yesterday i explicitly said i was only willing to lynch hiraki fitz, scumdeers, and frank, and refused to join either wagon. i did lynch one who flipped scum, and another is one of your strong scum reads (the one that isnt me). only one is even a town read for you. however, distancing/bussing/blah blah blah, i dont really care that you scum read me right now because it doesnt matter.

frank is a scum read that yet another person has. i typically defend idlers and lynchbait, as i did with creeps, but frank is actually playing lurker scum from the handbook. his #68 and even #539 scream scum partners, and in general scrolling through his iso its all just awful and pushing on townies (gamma/creeps from your perspective, eric from mine).

pedit: i agree twoface, hiraki/fitz/frank seems like a good solve to me. i want to lynch frank first out of the two though as he is less productive if he is townie.

[Joshz]

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

it does somewhat make sense

Spoiler: my reads list for those who forgot

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}

i did put gamma in the townier pile. however, rereading through day one creeps has now moved up to the townier side based on his interactions with fitz especially and everyone. i do not agree scumdeers is necessarily town but theyre certainly the less scummy of the idlers. i need to go back and reread gamma's interactions and votes to say for sure.

rn the people im looking at are fitz hiraki and gamma (big shock). still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town. i am keeping my vote on frank though for now.

[Joshz]

What if I told you Frank and Hiraki arent the only ones allowed to be lynched?

this is your defense????????????????????? don't you dare drag me into this - I at least post

Vote: Frank

Why so dramatic?

Its obvious I was responding to Joshz absolute of "frank or hiraki frank is better"

it was not my absolute, but if the solve was you/hiraki/fitz id rather lynch you first.

[Joshz]

read through some of day 1, sdavt moves into my probably town pile.

hiraki/gamma/frank most likely contains both scum, id still lynch vedith but apparently nobody agrees with that so

hiraki/gamma/frank: what are your reads on me? do you think [the two not including yourself] are likely the two living scum? if not, whats your solve rn?

[Joshz]

read through some of day 1, sdavt moves into my probably town pile.

hiraki/gamma/frank most likely contains both scum, id still lynch vedith but apparently nobody agrees with that so

hiraki/gamma/frank: what are your reads on me? do you think [the two not including yourself] are likely the two living scum? if not, whats your solve rn?

You are in Eric's slot correct? Solid town.
I don't believe that group is certain to contain both scum, but I DON'T have a solve, because I don't particularly care for miracle pills.

Ye I am


Fwiw if I was bg I would've been on nacho last night

[Joshz]

Idle guy is scum. Not food guy or gem guy.

[Joshz]

Gem guy have little humor sense

[Joshz]

Srsly frank who is statue and pie guy? Call ppl by their names pls

[Joshz]

Classic mason synergy

[Joshz]

But anyways I don't necessarily object to a hammer but I want hiraki to answer my questions first at the very least

[Joshz]

I actually completely missed his claim and I'm aware that looks bad on me buy what can you do. My bad.

Unvote and VOTE: hiraki

[Joshz]

I also don't believe Frank's claim at all but I'm too new to know if it's likely there's a second bg so for now hiraki is a better lynch.

[Joshz]

Do you believe it's likely to be a legit claim from personal experience?

[Joshz]

Alright thanks.

I'm happy with my vote where it is then.

[Joshz]

Im confident vedith is scum.
His 1239 is bad.
Everytime i reread it it gets worse.

"If anyone thinks TF isnt town they need to explain" sounds like scum trying to make town have conflict, without directly causing it.

The whole post looks fake, and the logic is going against it self.

yay for someone else scumreading vedith!

btw - if frank had an experienced scum partner wouldnt they just give him a claim like backup bg? someone like hiraki *cough cough* knows the game well enough to know whats a reasonable claim from what I can tell

this is not meaning i think we lynch frank today, i agree with the above discussion. just something to mull over.

[Joshz]

your prior's iso is actually important information. you know deer's role so you can analyze his interactions from an outside point of view.

[Joshz]

Still cool lynching vedith or gamma if the wagons start. I am not lynching out of these 3 today. Hiraki, if you're town, convince me to lynch vedith or gamma over you. Creeps isn't happening today. Don't get me wrong, keep your vote on him if you want to, but convince me to change mine.

[Joshz]

It doesnt

Fitz/vedith does though

[Joshz]

It doesnt

Fitz/vedith does though

Oh yeah, run that one past me again.

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.
Le End

[Joshz]

and because you're scum... dumbass

[Joshz]

btw if it wasnt obvious im not actually voting you specifically for that, ive scum read you for a while and am only voting you because other people are starting to as well

[Joshz]

OK GUYS I'M BACK - I'M READY TO KICK ASS AGAIN, THE ULT CHARGE IS BACK:

Okay that response from Hiraki tbh was crap.

Great! I would love to hear what you disagreed about! Oh wait! I can't have that opportunity if you just shout something out with reasoning! Wooo! Aren't posts like these SUPER productive?????

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

Not with posts like that he's not

OH! BUT I'M /SURE/ I CAN RESPOND TO THIS O-

Nope, can't do that either! Weeee!

VCA is included in my reads bro

Included, or the sole basis? Again, have you read Day 1?

you hate it when people call themselves town?

It creates a huge bias in your reads that not everyone else can follow because only you know that you're town.

plus his posts today are very scummy

Great! Remember yesterday when TwoFace

literally

said that he just can't respond to my posts anymore? Haha! That was not irritating at all!

and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town.

Because confirmed town are always correct, right???

why not look into people I am scum reading?

You keep asking us if we think you're tunneling and THIS is the question that you pose to Vedith?

Really?

He's done very little explaining.

(citation needed)

Tbh this does sound like an interesting idea
Vedith's pushes today leave something to be desired

What does this mean????

How do people's /pushes/ leave something to be desired? I don't even know how to put that in a more inquisitve way. It's like Gamma saw candy and said "Ooo! That one looks yummy right now!"

Can you guys really form solid reads and opinions???

ive scum read you for a while

vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that.

there is scum in vedith and scumdeers :*

I don't particularly like mathblade (no offense meant I dislike most people I'm an asshole) but idt he's scum. Yknow who's scum? Vedith!

VOTE: vedith

This is mostly for twiszted slot. Looking at twiszted content, it's disgustingly bad. Vedith has idled and not been particularly townie himself, so while his content is more of a null read twiszteds was enough to make him likely scum.

It's not a fake read, you're scum. Stop diverting attention.

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

ive scrolled through the thread and isos a ton and i feel confident gut wise about vedith being scum, but i dont have a case atm that i can post so for now and i get im not being very convincing.

Now, hold on - this one is important:

changed my mind a bit on vedith but i still scum read twiszted pretty hard so he is only slightly town overall as a slot

townier side/null {gamma, vedith}

still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town.

BEEP BEEP

hiraki/gamma/frank most likely contains both scum, id still lynch vedith but apparently nobody agrees with that so

What happened between these two posts that made you switch your read from null/town to scum? Keep in mind that you had

four

scumreads at that time and Ved beats out all of them???? Huh???

yay for someone else scumreading vedith!

And this is the official scumread. I think you have some explaining to do.

because other people are starting to as well

OK, so here's what I want:

In almost every post that you call Vedith scum, you refer to TwisTed as being the BIGGEST source for this scumread - is there anything that happened between 1161 and 1221 that made you switch so quickly from Vedith's posting?

If we're lucky Creeps will get replaced and we'll have another active member of the town.

As for Creeps, from my experience, he's like this and is going to most likely be a difficult read. We'll see what he brings to the table Day 2.

I'm new and understand that. Mobile so no fancy linking but earlier itg in response to nacho I explained why I was scumreading vedith. I left it because nobody else pushed the read at the time, and day 1 I said I was willing to lynch out of the 4 people and one did get a couple voted so I joined and they flipped scum. Vedith wasn't really town read for me ever, I misworded that. I believed that frank and you were the scum so PoE wise vedith would be town. However, Frank is no longer likely scum, so that slot opens right up. Twiszted is the biggest source - vedith is mostly null or slight scum lean, but twiszted looked really scummy (I explained why earlier) and the combination reinforces scum vedith. I was never not willing to lynch vedith, but I'm new and the more experienced townies getting on board with scum vedith reinforces my reads. I don't remember 1161 to 1221 specifically by numbers and I'm on mobile so checking is a pain in the ass. Scum deers and creeps were never as scummy as vedith, I still think io's RVS posts are disgustingly scummy but I was told not to read into it as early as it was so I dropped that, and creeps I've reconsidered.

A lot of this also comes from trusting nachos hard town read on aristo when I don't see it so I'd like nacho to say if he still believes it and give a better explanation.

[Joshz]

And while my vote is on hiraki it is also on vedith in spirit

[Joshz]

So this is my notification that I'm still reading and such.

A point is I think it's highly likely Joshz is scum. Eric Rasputin was highly suspect and what I've read on this page does nothing to make me warm and fuzzy about the slot. Specifically, drawing on the newb card isn't an excuse for bad play. New players are honest and easily readable as town, if not confused. Inconsistency is a great way to catch the differentiation if nothing else.

cool

now lynch hiraki because he's scum. 'eric was highly suspect' *skips the dozens of pages ive posted* 'this page does not change anything'. why do so many people generalize new players? they are not honest and easily readable as town as a rule. there is a difference between being new to mafia and being new to ms as for "drawing on the newb card isn't an excuse for bad play" cool argument... if you think i have bad play. i dont. i think my play is fine and acknowledging that im new to choosing people i trust to be townie to partially sheep is a good plan. your reply to twoface initially did nothing to make me warm and fuzzy about my already poor read on deers, but it doesnt matter because theres only two scum and you most likely dont fit into that. so, if you think im highly likely scum, congrats, youre in a boat with luv if his thoughts are still the same. good for you! now stay in his boat and lynch hiraki. or, vote me and make a case, but just casually fosing me and not commenting on anything relevant is a waste of time.

[Joshz]

im not offended over you believing me as scum

its cute... blah not going to get into an argument with you, based on your 1297 and 1300 you are not the kind of person i enjoy working with and thats that.

i subbed into this game, i dont need a lesson.

[Joshz]

"I decided to just reply on mobile"
Do you know this thing called a social life? It's this magical thing where you go to work, hang out with friends, and do various activities! Sorry for not carrying a laptop around with me and not valuing mafia over my life, I'll try and put you higher on my priorities in the future. As soon as I replied to Aj he got offline, he must be scum!!!

But sarcasm aside, you're scum and as funny as you trying to join the scum josh motion Aj started in a desperate attempt to clear yourself is, it's not going to work and when you flip scum we can sort through aj/vedith/i guess aristo.

[Joshz]

In particular I wold still like nacho to explain his read on aristo and tell us if it's still strong town

[Joshz]

AM I EXPECTED TO REMEMBER POSTS IN THE THREAD BY NUMBER AND CAPS ARE COOL BECAUSE I LOOK ANGRY AND BY THE WAY CALLING THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS HILARIOUS AND IRONICALLY ATE

[Joshz]

OK GUYS I'M BACK - I'M READY TO KICK ASS AGAIN, THE ULT CHARGE IS BACK:

Okay that response from Hiraki tbh was crap.

Great! I would love to hear what you disagreed about! Oh wait! I can't have that opportunity if you just shout something out with reasoning! Wooo! Aren't posts like these SUPER productive?????

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

Not with posts like that he's not

OH! BUT I'M /SURE/ I CAN RESPOND TO THIS O-

Nope, can't do that either! Weeee!

VCA is included in my reads bro

Included, or the sole basis? Again, have you read Day 1?

you hate it when people call themselves town?

It creates a huge bias in your reads that not everyone else can follow because only you know that you're town.

plus his posts today are very scummy

Great! Remember yesterday when TwoFace

literally

said that he just can't respond to my posts anymore? Haha! That was not irritating at all!

and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town.

Because confirmed town are always correct, right???

why not look into people I am scum reading?

You keep asking us if we think you're tunneling and THIS is the question that you pose to Vedith?

Really?

He's done very little explaining.

(citation needed)

Tbh this does sound like an interesting idea
Vedith's pushes today leave something to be desired

What does this mean????

How do people's /pushes/ leave something to be desired? I don't even know how to put that in a more inquisitve way. It's like Gamma saw candy and said "Ooo! That one looks yummy right now!"

Can you guys really form solid reads and opinions???

ive scum read you for a while

vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that.

there is scum in vedith and scumdeers :*

I don't particularly like mathblade (no offense meant I dislike most people I'm an asshole) but idt he's scum. Yknow who's scum? Vedith!

VOTE: vedith

This is mostly for twiszted slot. Looking at twiszted content, it's disgustingly bad. Vedith has idled and not been particularly townie himself, so while his content is more of a null read twiszteds was enough to make him likely scum.

It's not a fake read, you're scum. Stop diverting attention.

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

ive scrolled through the thread and isos a ton and i feel confident gut wise about vedith being scum, but i dont have a case atm that i can post so for now and i get im not being very convincing.

Now, hold on - this one is important:

changed my mind a bit on vedith but i still scum read twiszted pretty hard so he is only slightly town overall as a slot

townier side/null {gamma, vedith}

still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town.

BEEP BEEP

hiraki/gamma/frank most likely contains both scum, id still lynch vedith but apparently nobody agrees with that so

What happened between these two posts that made you switch your read from null/town to scum? Keep in mind that you had

four

scumreads at that time and Ved beats out all of them???? Huh???

yay for someone else scumreading vedith!

And this is the official scumread. I think you have some explaining to do.

because other people are starting to as well

OK, so here's what I want:

In almost every post that you call Vedith scum, you refer to TwisTed as being the BIGGEST source for this scumread - is there anything that happened between 1161 and 1221 that made you switch so quickly from Vedith's posting?

If we're lucky Creeps will get replaced and we'll have another active member of the town.

As for Creeps, from my experience, he's like this and is going to most likely be a difficult read. We'll see what he brings to the table Day 2.

I didn't say that posting on mobile was scummy or bad. I just thought that utilizing mobile to reply to what is clearly something that requires more attention is not the best method utilize. I find it very ironic that my point was not that you posted on mobile but moreso that I posted an argument against you (i.e. something that you asked AJ to do) and then you proceeded to kind of just throw it into the trash.

Was that attack toward me really necessary? I said /nothing/ about your social life. I care about your social as much as you care about mine.

For someone who is a newbie (I'm really not buying that you're experienced in mafia), I hope you learn that taking criticism about your play is an essential part of this game and don't resort to frivolous arguments in the future.

Can you now address the arguments I've brought up?

Post-Edit:

I'm a townie-nothing more to say on my claim. I honestly would rather self-hammer just to make the town a little more self-aware that this tunneling shit has gone WAY too far. Please Gamma for the love of god. Can you FUCKING explain what's crap? I've asked you TIME and TIME again and I've gotten nothing but the next post saying "Hey, Hiraki's post is crap"

Here are some examples:

OK just looking at Hiraki's last post I'm not very pleased by what he's saying. Specifically his ad hominem attack on TF.

Okay that response from Hiraki tbh was crap.

That's not a productive way to play. Gamma has not ever explained this scumread.

When I die (there's really no IF here, this train has no brakes) please look at Joshz and Gamma much harder.

POST-EDIT: CHRIST, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on but his next post gives more substantial evidence.

Like wtf is this shit?

THIS IS BLANTANT MISREPRESENTATION! WHAT THE FUCK?

HERE'S WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID:

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on but his next post gives more substantial evidence.

Vedith did nothing between those posts.

THE IMPORTANT PART IS THE LATER. IT'S BECAUSE THE POST I QUOTED SAID THAT JOSHZ HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THOSE POSTS WITH VEDITH. I KNEW WHAT HAPPENED FROM THE BEGINNING BUT DIDN'T POINT MY FINGER OUT FIRST.

LIKE REALLY? DO YOU HAVE ANY READING COMPREHENSION?

This addresses the something I asked aj to do line. Are you calling thst a push on me? You never even stated you scum read me, never mind voted me. You actually haven't posted a read on me since like mid d1... or replied to my scum reads on you at all until aj mentioned me as his (only so far) scum read.

If you want me to talk personally, I'm not a newbie, I just play on sites with communities that respect me. A personal flaw I have is that I can't take criticism from people I consider worse than me and I skipped the part of acquiring respect on ms and as a result I've met several people on here that I can't stand and basically killed myself in this community so I'm leaving when my games are done. That's fine. The meta here is very different anyways. I take criticism 100% and adapt my game based on how my last one goes. So, if you were to flip town, I'd look at you again as someone I scumread to see where I went wrong. Here's the thing: I can't go into more detail because ongoing but there hasn't been a single game on this site where I haven't been scum read by old players. I appear as a helpless whiny newbie which makes scummy old people think I'm an easy push or think whiteknighting me locks in an easy vote as scum. It didn't work out in 1850 (gamma was in it) where I was the earliest to read scum, and that's the only game that I can directly reference. I do good when I play with people who know how to read people who play in a different meta. It's very different from reading your own site. That mostly happened so far this game so I doubt I'll get mislynched at this stage but who knows. It's a personal flaw that I refuse to act like a newbie and I'm definitely not perfect. But anyways, tangent point being that you're scum and I'm not the easy newbie mislynch you want. New to ms =/= new to the concept of mafia.




I explained why vedith was scum to nacho a long time ago, look in my iso. He said it was fair. The confirmed townies dropped it so I did, I explained my thoughts already and if they are telling me they disagree I don't scum read vedith strong enough to value arguing. To appease you after posting I'm going to go read through the numbers you linked regardless of being on mobile, survivor finale just ended and I'm bored regardless.

[Joshz]

D1 FINAL VOTE COUNT

havingfitz (7): Nachomamma8, Gamma Emerald, Joshz, Lil Uzi Vert, Aristophanes, Vedith, MathBlade

Creeps20 (3): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, FrankJaeger
MathBlade (2): Creeps20, TwoFace
Gamma Emerald (1): havingfitz


No Vote (0):

Well idk joshz vote here is prob town...

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

it does somewhat make sense

Spoiler: my reads list for those who forgot

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}

i did put gamma in the townier pile. however, rereading through day one creeps has now moved up to the townier side based on his interactions with fitz especially and everyone. i do not agree scumdeers is necessarily town but theyre certainly the less scummy of the idlers. i need to go back and reread gamma's interactions and votes to say for sure.

rn the people im looking at are fitz hiraki and gamma (big shock). still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town. i am keeping my vote on frank though for now.

If scum bussed i would bet vedith but nothing to back that up currently

I had him as scum all day yesterday.
This post just reads as "Lets push else where to divert attention from me not voting there."

VOTE: Frank
GTFO.

TwoFace is confirm town for me and Math is a smart enough player to see that as well. Scum more than likely attacked TwoFace and Math protected there.

hirak and vedith. one of them are scum. atleast.
both of their votes seem fake.

ved how was he the towniest by far?

Because he was pushing for Fritz from the start. He wasn't just trying to go with the flow trying to direct the lynch else where like you.
Anyone not town reading TwoFace needs to give a reason why.

Also, your "scum in Vedith / Haraki" comment is just a scum comment of "Lets lynch both because I know their alignment".

Tell me, why didn't you vote up Fritz?
What was town looking for him to not be worth lynching?

it's impossible to know for sure though. we can't even make a real educated guess

From the amount I've played with Math, I'm making an educated guess.
Frank is highly likely as scum here.

I actually completely missed his claim and I'm aware that looks bad on me buy what can you do. My bad.

Unvote and VOTE: hiraki

What specifically are you looking for? Frank was a genuine scum read of mine. Noticing his claim and people reinforcing it was reasonable, a slot I was confident in being scum opened up. You never even answered my question at you btw, thanks for having me reread and notice that. Someone else (twoface) scum reading vedith was what I needed to convince me I wasn't just misguided, which granted is still very well a possibility. Despite a genuine frank scum read I am pretty sure at least one scum would've voted him because he was a truly easy push - that said, a lot of us scum read frank so it's a very very minor part of my thoughts.

[Joshz]

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

it does somewhat make sense

Spoiler: my reads list for those who forgot

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}

i did put gamma in the townier pile. however, rereading through day one creeps has now moved up to the townier side based on his interactions with fitz especially and everyone. i do not agree scumdeers is necessarily town but theyre certainly the less scummy of the idlers. i need to go back and reread gamma's interactions and votes to say for sure.

rn the people im looking at are fitz hiraki and gamma (big shock).

still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town.

i am keeping my vote on frank though for now.

In Post 1217 - Joshz posts that he thinks Vedith is scum. The main crux of the above argument is that he was following a confirmed townie (FJ) which as much as I don't agree with is still somewhat of his own opinion.

?

am

i

missing something?

[Joshz]

he constantly goes for easy pushes. the first thing he does itg is go for tvd. when that doesnt pan out, he goes for eric, the ubernoob. he gets off eventually, but like, eric was obvtown to me, though clearly im biased knowing he was townie. there are only scum reasons to push a supernoob like that, as opposed to a noob of my level who is at least competent. more importantly, literally every post of his was contentless and empty. he did not start any GOOD discussons, or join in in any. #175 is also p bad, the only game ive completed on this site scum delegated to things such as 'x is scum and bonus points who tells me why', aka tricking people into subconsciously analyzing scummy traits of a person and ignoring their actual stance. twiszted was super scummy and nothing has changed my view on that.

This approach makes sense, I'll look out for it.
I think that House is a player that occasionally misses things that most people pick up on (aka Eric's ubertowniness), so the tell is lessened somewhat but I agree that some of his early approaches look pretty terrible; right now, I'm reading through his early approach to Gamma and I don't really like what he's scumreading Gamma for (assuming and wording, neither of which are scumtells in any sense of the word).

Me and House don't get along well
First game he tunneled me for parts of Days 1, 2, and 3, wavering his read so he could guage my alignment
Second game I had a read discrepancy he attacked me on, but he was scum so EH

I don't mind that he was pushing; I mind how he pushed.
I don't really think that he thought that it was scummy that you gave an interpretation of how someone was thinking because you didn't say "this is an interpretation" first.

this is what i was referencing when i said i explained my scum read on vedith

[Joshz]

also i type like i have an ego but thats just how i type, i know im a beginner & dont mean to insult people ;3

[Joshz]

Scum can't always just jump on the counter wagon lmao

It looks bad on then if they just vote opportunistic ally. Fitz had already defended creeps so switching his vote to someone he saw as townie would've got him lynched faster. I don't think it necessarily means creeps CAN'T be his partner but he probably isn't.

Al's lack of reply by now worries me btw

[Joshz]

You linked his posts referencing creeps last page. I don't think you could realistically pull off a vote on someone you've town read so visibly just because they're a counter wagon. Much more viable to whiteknight creeps while avoiding being lynched.

To use your own argument, however: why didn't he just vote hiraki?

[Joshz]

the reason he

(TF)

gets more cred for it is that hiraki's didn't feel as genuine, whereas i liked tf's attitude about it.

Not as genuine? If I recall Hiraki was the first person to go out on a limb proclaiming Eric was a VI (and ergo not voteworthy). Not something I would have done in the presence of suspect posting by Eric. And certainly no reason for scum to. How was Hiraki's attitude about Eric off?

Not sure why TF continues to skate.

PARTNER NOW!

Creeps I'd prefer if you claimed now since we're having trouble assembling votes rn.

Creeps needs to claim NOW

I hate pushing claims before they are necessary. Why potentially out a PR if not necessary?


What ever happened to this?

What.
YOU CLAIM AT L-1!
Hmmmm...

More Gamma votes please.

I hate pushing claims before they are necessary.

I'm against a creeps lynch but deadline is in 18 hours and he's the largest wagon.

When exactly is necessary to you? 12 hours before? 6? Get real

I hate creeps is getting lynched but a claim is needed at this point. There's no way you can be town. You've been playing mafia on this site way too long to be this bad.

Fitz, don't you think that claiming with ~1 day left until deadline is pretty reasonable when you're the top wagon?

Fitz, don't you think that claiming with ~1 day left until deadline is pretty reasonable when you're the top wagon?

This is a good point. I was more focused on the fact Gamma has been doing this throughout the day when we were "nowhere close to deadline then."

This is the progression. Arguing against a claim looks townie and with others pushing for a claim it doesn't matter.

[Joshz]

Post dinguses

Unvote spam bot

VOTE: fitz

VOTE: fitz
good wagon

Reread from when I subbed in to see how long it would take. No clue where aj is but anyways, rofl at this having happened.

[Joshz]

All 3 scum pushing creeps would've been weird

Glad my main man fitz pushed gamma instead

[Joshz]

Even if you flip town scum definitely hasn't won this so that's just dumb

[Joshz]

No offense but if you're going to just blindly follow Lil Uzi, who may not be reading the game, and FJ, who is not reading the game, I'm right.

At the same rate, TF will just blantantly misrep people and call it OK because ???? And if you question him, that's most definitely a no-no.

You are right though - things are illogical this game so I guess it's pretty illogical to expect the logical outcome.

Huh? Is this at me?

[Joshz]

Well if im following anyone it's TwoFace. Luv scumreads me afaik and Frank has nothing to follow lol. But regardless, I'm not blindly following TwoFace, I actually will most likely reread him if you were to flip town cus him switching off his lock scum read for an awful claim was strange, but meh, I don't see it happening. The thing is nacho has had almost completely identical reads to me (EXPLAIN ARISTO AAAAAH) and as a conftown it's really really easy to sheep him as an experienced player with the same reads as myself.

Tbh I'd be OK with flashwagoning aj rn as he lurks and watches things play out but whatever, I expect you to flip scum so my vote is fine. I would flashwagon aj if luv and nacho wanted to though.

[Joshz]

I'm going to look into this josh/vedith thing at some point. He did do a weird 180

What 180?_?

[Joshz]

I thought we established hiraki was wrong and misread my post? Let's see it

[Joshz]

Idr if I actually posted it but I thought that hiraki/aj was unlikely

[Joshz]

Idr if I actually posted it but I thought that hiraki/aj was unlikely

Why are you thinking Hiraki over AJ?

I am not necessarily. I can't really decide. I really think both are scummy as shit but I also highly doubt they're both scum, so idk where my brain is going. Hiraki is most likely better because an aj flip doesn't give us anywhere near as much info in the event of a town flip. Ajs bad post on me and then disappearing when confronted is weird af, and hiraki immediately joining that is also weird. Hiraki has done some very odd things such as constant questioning over something he ended up misreading, and him questioning me asking aj to build a case on me was dumb because hiraki didn't build a case on me. I've already made posts about why io/deers were scum. I'm wrong on one of them probably so I need time to think about which. Meanwhile, as of now I'd rather hiraki lynch, so my vote is there.

[Joshz]

Lol I didn't see the mod note and got really confused

Hi Sonia. Maybe you'll be done your read through before aj!

[Joshz]

Lol I didn't see the mod note and got really confused

Hi Sonia. Maybe you'll be done your read through before aj!

I don't re read.

Although I may check the flipped scums iso but that's prob it.

Was Math a likely nk or was it prob from bg?

my opinion is math targeted nacho who was the nk. couldve easily been direct targeted but eh, i dont see it, and the mason besides nacho has been less active and generates less discussion. i want to also say nacho has better reads but he town reads me and luv scum reads me so clearly as the only one that knows im townie im heavily biased in that.

anyways, what id ideally want from you is to, if you wont reread (i completely disagree but whatever i also get that its a ton of effort), skim the iso's of first fitz and then nacho/aj and give your thoughts. i town read your slot or id be more concerned with you not rereading.

[Joshz]

oops, hiraki, not nacho :s

[Joshz]

and the reason i want you to read aj/hiraki is that i cant decide which is more likely scum because both have compelling cases and it is likely only 1 is scum

frank is only conftown if you think the setup is likely to have a backup bg (bg and masons being only other prs afaik) or not, though i think most people agree hes prolly telling the truth.

[Joshz]

ROFL .. I like how you guys change your vote so easily when a dark horse suddenly appears ... Too easy

I am a townie and not mafia ... Dont regret it when the KP comes out ... This is my first time playing here, do you really think a mod would make a newbie here a scum? I think not

i think this is what he means


erics whole iso (u can read if u have time its not long) is oozing with newbtown, though i obviously know hes townie so i cant make that read objectively

[Joshz]

and the reason i want you to read aj/hiraki is that i cant decide which is more likely scum because both have compelling cases and it is likely only 1 is scum

frank is only conftown if you think the setup is likely to have a backup bg (bg and masons being only other prs afaik) or not, though i think most people agree hes prolly telling the truth.

Just coming out of a game with masons it's def a "wait a minute" flag.
Did he claim under pressure or was there a massclaim type of thing going on.

under pressure, he was being lynched. fwiw me and the masons were also on his wagon and scum reading him. i am too new to assert whether or not the setup made sense with a backup bg so i let them decide.

[Joshz]

The leftovers
Vedith - not really scummy, but Joshz thinks so
Hiraki - opted to not vote fitz after stating he would
Aj - this is a small issue, but has thrown shade on Eric after the consensus decided he was town
Aristo - softed a PR early Day 1

NACHO I THINK THIS IS THE THIRD TIME IM ASKING YOU EXPLAIN YOUR ARISTO READ OR SAY ITS NOT A TOWN READ ANYMORE AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

aj disappearing after our short interaction and still not being back is concerning af too

[Joshz]

Nothing to rly claim, if he was a pr he'd have ccd frank

[Joshz]

Have you finished reading then?

[Joshz]

i can see your argument for eric not NECESSARILY being town, even if i disagree with it. however, you were reading and its been more than long enough to have been done or at least most of the way through. do you think the slot is scum after seeing me in it and if so i want to see the case please, thats what i was asking. i also want to see your general thoughts on the game. :c

[Joshz]

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

lol
sarcasm is lost on you ;;


@aristo i guess nacho either knows something we dont or he no longer is confident in his read on you since he has ignored every time ive asked. who are your scum reads right now and why?

[Joshz]

I still would like to hear Hiraki's reasons for townreading AJ, though.

I stated that

I liked Deer's comments and I don't see anything wrong with AJ atm. Is there something you think I missed?

@nacho - hiraki made a big post responding to me that concludes with him saying he would vote fitz. Shortly after he voted creep. I don't see similar type posts explaining creeps scum (unless I somehow missed it) so that's weird for me.

Says will vote scum but instead votes the counter to scum usually points to scum not town. Factor in his bad reads and over the top fake AtE. I don't see how he's town here.

That is not what I said, I even quoted the post in the previous page when talking to Nacho. You can't just stuff words in my mouth, I know what I said. Here it is, yet again:

I know how to best play from a scum perspective and Fitz does that. Not from his words but from the long-term game. Am I willing to vote on that now? Yeah - maybe at the end of a BW or if nothing else really strikes anyone. I think I would rather get rid of Creeps first if this is how he's going to act for the rest of the game.

Stop acting like I said that HF was on the same level as Creeps. I made that very clear.

The leftovers
Vedith - not really scummy, but Joshz thinks so
Hiraki - opted to not vote fitz after stating he would
Aj - this is a small issue, but has thrown shade on Eric after the consensus decided he was town
Aristo - softed a PR early Day 1

NACHO I THINK THIS IS THE THIRD TIME IM ASKING YOU EXPLAIN YOUR ARISTO READ OR SAY ITS NOT A TOWN READ ANYMORE AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

aj disappearing after our short interaction and still not being back is concerning af too

you do know that this Gamma, no?

I'm telling him if he reads the last 5 or so pages he'll understand what's going on.

doesn't seem to work very well this game

yeah. i quoted gamma because he outlined the pool of 4 scum are supposedly in (i agree to an extent but a gamma/creeps/even twoface being scum would not completely shock me). but anyways, i agree that said group of 4 is the scummiest by a significant margin at the very least. nacho earlier said he was so confident aristo was town that hed bet the game on it - i really wanted nacho to explain that because if he could eliminate a person from the scum pool thatd be amazing, but apparently hes not concerned with replying so w/e.

[Joshz]

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

lol
sarcasm is lost on you ;;


@aristo i guess nacho either knows something we dont or he no longer is confident in his read on you since he has ignored every time ive asked. who are your scum reads right now and why?

I mean, he literally already said it is simply meta. Sadly, I am very easy to meta and it gets me caught as scum a lot. Usually I'm easier to meta as scum than town, but I definitely see his application of it from my earlier gameplay.

As for scumreads, I believe I had had them on Deers and Creeps, but both slots have now changed hands and I have given them a light reset.

I like the Masons, Frank, and TwoFace as town. Hiraki is aight from my read of him, and I think Vedith could be good as well. This leaves Gamma and Josh, with the possibility of Sonia and AJ as my scumpool.

How's that?

nacho, can you explain why you consider Aristophanes lock town?

meta. his scum game looks like Frank's play here.

and i know this isn't satisfactory, and will expand on why Aristo is town once I'm finished casing Deers.

this is what i was referencing and the expansion never happened.

anyways, it appears aj is the overlapping scum read we have, and from what ive seen everyone besides hiraki agrees. im staying on hiraki rn, but thats something interesting to note that im thinking about.

[Joshz]

i would also like you to convince me vedith is town please

[Joshz]

bumpadadump

[Joshz]

I just realized this is only d2 wtf

[Joshz]

So this is my notification that I'm still reading and such.

A point is I think it's highly likely Joshz is scum. Eric Rasputin was highly suspect and what I've read on this page does nothing to make me warm and fuzzy about the slot. Specifically, drawing on the newb card isn't an excuse for bad play. New players are honest and easily readable as town, if not confused. Inconsistency is a great way to catch the differentiation if nothing else.

[Joshz]

Nobody hammer until aj and sonia have caught up and given thoughts please

[Joshz]

She's still reading fitz at least, hopefully the other 2 I asked her to as well.

Regardless no point rushing, nacho or whoever can hammer some time during the last 24 hours (for yhe record 24 hours left is when I think hammer should be) if there's no new wagon to change to. I also want aj to take a stance before the lynch and he will look much worse to me if he can't catch up and post thoughts in the next 2 days before the potential hiraki hammer.

[Joshz]

I'm already on the wagon :s

[Joshz]

Yea frankjagger

[Joshz]

wouldnt claiming to be an expert (note - 7 years of experience) when being accused further prove village

idiot

? no competent player is going to tell people town reading him for being new that hes actually not new.

[Joshz]

its ok if he scumreads me for now, doesnt matter. i want to hear the rest of his thoughts after his catchup is done. if it isnt done by the final 24 hours i am down to lynch him though, thats more than enough time.

[Joshz]

i dont consider him conftown. i understand people typically say bussing an ally that hard is stupid, but its happened. id give him about 95% chance of being town though and not worth pursuing unless you like found a slip in his interactions with fitz or some insane shit like that.

very likely town, not conf.

[Joshz]

@AJ - "Nacho, Sonia, josh, Vedith are town. If you're going to put Josh as town for Eric, I see no reason Sonia doesn't get the same pass. Hesistant on Uzi." yknow nacho and uzi are the masons right?

@sonia - nobody who's town read me has even mentioned me lmao they keep saying its because of eric. no point complaining since im not gonna be mislynched but bleh.

[Joshz]

Hiraki, before you're hammered, convince us aj and vedith are town so we don't lynch them tomorrow.

[Joshz]

I don't want you to defend vedith. Make a case that he's town. Show me where he's down town things and what warrants you townreading him. Your read has to come from somewhere.

[Joshz]

Hiraki is experienced enough to know what town wants. Jumping on the aj wagon would make him look worse and he knows that, refusing to lynch aj looks townie until you realize that's just how it's projected. We've alreasy had this discussion, scum can't just jump on the first wagon that isn't scum because it looks awful, Hiraki has been tunnelling gamma (and creeps) and he isn't just going to flip his vote. I don't think it's alignment indicative overall. If I were scum in Hiraki's situation I would vote aj and argue it's better than being lynched but still vocally push a gamma lynch and say you think aj is a mislynch but it's still better. If hiraki isn't even going to post where his vedith tr comes from I see no reason to not lynch him. If he's scum we don't have inspect roles in this game to clear him with so if we lynch aj today and he flips town hiraki could easily just get lynched tomorrow and if he's also town were fucked. Hiraki and sonia have both already acknowledged that hiraki is the best lynch regardless though so I guess I'm arguing with the air.

[Joshz]

Are you still considering him lock town?

[Joshz]

Frank doesn't need the experience to fake claim. He needs a partner experienced enough to give him a fake claim.

I already said it but scum is almost definitely killing nacho because the other Mason is much less active and helpful, and sonia/myself/TwoFace aren't confirmed even if we are being considered town. Like in lylo a desperate case can't be made for a mason but it can for the other 3 of us.

[Joshz]

Frank, you use your bg tonight. Use your judgment. I know the two id bg for both of Hiraki's potential flips but obviously I'm not the backup bg. The point is do not save it.

[Joshz]

W8

Does backup bg even make sense?? That role seems awful and I've never even seen a game with it.

[Joshz]

I remember the discussion, I was there.

But 1 shot backup bg sounds completely garbage. No way there's a universal backup in a game where the prs are bg and masons, and the wiki doesn't even have an entry for backup bg thst i could find. The buff town gets from a 1 shot bg is barely worth noting because bg is already an eh role and think about the fact that nearly every person in the town block as well as others scum read frank and voted him up. I came to the conclusion separately from nacho personally and I was confident in my frank scumread. We backed off but I've thought about this a ton and i came to the conclusion 1 shot backup bg is a bad claim and Frank is probably scum.

Can you link a game where it's been seen before?

[Joshz]

well twoface, he had to claim something if he didnt wanna get lynched since he was l-1, and nobody is gonna lynch prot. i do honestly think scum would claim it, and 1 shot backup bg is weak enough that as scum he can just kill luv/myself/you tn because nacho is the obvious kill. he doesnt need an excuse, its 1 shot and nacho is the obvious target.

[Joshz]

oh

what

am i crazy or did someone say 1 shot at one point
nvm then im satisfied with hiraki lynch

[Joshz]

scum IS going after nacho. the only reason they wouldnt is if they expected you to bg him. nacho is the logical kill.

[Joshz]

because nacho is leading and luv is "disinterested"

[Joshz]

Lynch aside, Frank dying there was optimal in my eyes. Cleared up a slot for me that I was unsure of.

No Vote (9): TwoFace, Vedith, Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx, Aj The Epic, Gamma Emerald, Joshz, Aristophanes, Nachomamma8

Luv Sonia Nacho Josh are Town. Twoface probably too (I DONT LIKE HOW HARD HE TUNNELLED ON HIRAKI BUT HWATEVER).

That leaves Vedith, Aj, Gamma, and Aristophanes. 2/4 of those are 90% the scum. Nacho, now is the time to post your towncase on Aristo zzzzzz

[Joshz]

Reread the later part of d1. And yes, I'm doing what everyone hates and putting myself in green because this is for my reads. Suck it up or make your own with me as black or w/e if you want to. Edited Sonia and AJ into first wagon because I hate having too many names sorry!

havingfitz (7):

Nachomamma8,

Gamma Emerald,

Joshz,

Lil Uzi Vert,

Aristophanes, Vedith,

MathBlade

Creeps20 (3): Aj The Epic,

Hiraki, FrankJaeger

MathBlade (2): xSoniaNevermindx, TwoFace
Gamma Emerald (1):

havingfitz

Hiraki (6):

Joshz, Lil Uzi Vert, FrankJaeger,

TwoFace, Gamma Emerald, xSoniaNevermindx
Aj The Epic (3):

Nachomamma8,

Aristophanes,

Hiraki

No Vote (2): Aj The Epic, Vedith


The two final vote counts. Interestingly, both Vedith and Aristophanes were on the scum lynch and not the town lynch, though us town did a great job of lynching town without scum influence (unless scum is twoface). Twoface and Sonia were on the town lynch and not the scum lynch but TwoFace was a big pusher of the scum lynch in the first place and the primary reason fitz was lynched at all so idk and Sonia didn't push the town lynch, just begrudgingly hammered. Aj was on neither lynch.




My current reads on everyone not green/red above:
TwoFace

Sonia
Gamma

Aristophanes

Aj
Vedith



Rereading day 1 and having the knowledge Hiraki was town TwoFace looked worse to me than the lock town I thought he was, but yall said nobody would SvS interact like that so I'll leave him. Sonia was the counterwagon and was good yesterday, defending Hiraki and all, though refusing to read is annoying. Gamma and Fitz probably wasnt SvS but it is a possibility. Gamma was early on the wagon though.

Then the scummier side. Aristophanes might be my number one scum read from just memory/gut: involving rereading and VCs, this read is dependant on Nacho still believing they're town too but voting with both townies and not lynching town while lynching scum is good. Aj and Vedith are PoE but I've sr'd Vedith for a really really long time, and Aj's entrance was all around bad.

HOWEVER: there is the clear issue that Hiraki thought Aj and Vedith were town. I wish he had fucking towncased Vedith but whatever. I tend to analyze dead townies reads and put a lot of stock into reads of players that are experienced, so him townreading both of them is giving me doubts. I am probably wrong somewhere and have to do some more thinking. Ngl so glad Frank was the death because I did not trust him to be bg at all and I was gonna keep questioning him. He was probably the 'ideal' nightkill for my reads if you can use ideal like that. If I were scum I'd have taken out Luv or even myself (Josh) but hey I can't see their chat.

[Joshz]

hm

as i think im gonna vote with gut for now

VOTE: aristophanes

[Joshz]

Hiraki has no one to blame but himself. Still blacklisting him after this game.
_____

Confirmed Town: Me and Nacho
Practically Confirmed: TwoFace and Vedith
Might Be Town: AJ, Josh
Probably Scum: Ari, Gamma, and Sonia

_____

Me and Nacho are masons.

_____

TF was the driving force behind the Fitz wagon from the jump and fought tooth and nail a lot more than I did to ensure Creeps wouldn't be lynched. I have a decent amount of games with him and he doesn't strike me as a gimmicks guy, meaning he's probably not one to try to WIFOM towns to victory as scum. I also feel he's a decent judge of skill level so I don't see him sticking his neck out so hard unless Creeps had an very important role for the scum team.

Vedith was exactly like TF was with Creeps when it came to Hiraki, just went about it the wrong way as he was unable to explain the town read he had on him due to the fact that he could potential violate site rules. It doesn't make sense for scum Vedith to defend a townie this hard considering the game state and how much attention not explaining the read could've gotten him. We have had two confirmed masons since Day 1. I see scum more likely to try to buddy one of us than opposed to Hiraki who doesn't strike me as a guy who would be easy to manipulate.

_____

I've liked a lot of AJ's content at a glance but I haven't given it much of a look until now. I don't like his push on Josh is solely on his slot predecessors play. I think he would have to know that sort of push isn't going to go through considering he didn't sub in the same time Josh did and it has been a struggle to get lynches like that to go through considering Creeps slot is still alive. His case on Ari is solid and is probably where my vote is going to at the end of this.

Josh's pushes have been pretty nonsensical but on a reread the tone of a lot of his posts feel town and his frustrations after being pressured from AJ and Hiraki seem genuine.

_____

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep. Called out a lot of his posts feel fake to me earlier. Going to wait for the defense on him from Nacho. He doesn't feel like the best lynch today though.

Gamma is a PoE read for me. I still don't and will not scum read him for forcing me to claim but when I go through everyone else like I just did, I don't see him fitting in the categories that don't include me and Nacho. Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that.

Sonia - I haven't payed much attention to this slot because Creeps was the predecessor and while I usually don't keep reads on a slot, this felt like a special case. Sadly I've made a mistake. She has done nothing to redeem this slot at all. Her unwillingness to reread feels telling, especially considering that me and Nacho were pretty much public knowledge at that point and I would naturally think if you're town, you would want to know how I claimed. Her push on AJ is also terrible. There was no wagon on the Eric slot at the time and as I explained earlier, the likelihood of a lynch on that slot going through at that point of the game was slim to none.

"Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that."
i noticed this on my reread too, mathblade was pretty certain of scum gamma, and so was hiraki.

but anyways, luv, please convince me vedith is town if possible. itd make my reads much easier.

[Joshz]

I will give into you and Hiraki who also was sure Vedith was town, at least for now.

Ari is my lynch unless Nacho has a good case that hasn't wavered since day 1. Gamma is secondary and AJ is tertiary. Sorry but I'm really not feeling scum!sonia and while I suppose I could be convinced I don't intend to lynch her today unless I see something really really compelling to waver my reads significantly.

[Joshz]

yea i have nothing against hiraki, his lynch is something im going to look back on once i know the scum team to improve my game. i dont think we couldve avoided lynching him though because we have no cop and hew ouldve been a discussion frequently.

[Joshz]

fitz pushing you doesnt make you town rofl

[Joshz]

i reread later d1 and already said that was a point in your favor. it is not as gamma-is-conftown as you say it is. but fine, quote away.

[Joshz]

stopf ucking talking about this

[Joshz]

he didnt try to shift the wagon particularly hard, but the thought is there. i could definitely read that as scum saying 'hey, let me soft defend this townie thats about to flip and get some towncred' without actually doing anything, but he was on the right wagon and off the wrong one and it really isnt that bad.

bleh, im already voting him and this line of questioning doesnt rly interest me.

[Joshz]

nobody is gonna lolhammer dw

[Joshz]

i mean, he still hasnt been what id call active in this game but those are fair points.

VOTE: aj

problem now is if we clear aristo and i accept vedith as town from luv/hiraki/others arguments, that leaves aj/gamma/sonia as the scum pool and i dont like the latter 2 much as scum. aj is the slot that sticks out to me though by far. :/



pedit: i was offline during lynch iirc and wouldnt have backed off regardless with a shit claim like that. now, i did not know scum jailkeeper was a role at the time (!) but even having that knowledge id have stayed voting as it doesnt really matter.

[Joshz]

my lynch order at this moment is aj -> gamma -> vedith -> aristo -> sonia. obviously this is prone to change after flips but thats just where my head is at. their arguments were enough to get me to stop tunnelling him at the least, and hiraki was VERY convinced in town!vedith from what i could interpret from his writing.

[Joshz]

btw, creeps is exactly the kind of player that PLs happen to. obviously i defended creeps and refused to vote him BUT there is definite justification for wanting to PL him day 1.

[Joshz]

how is it inside info if he pub claimed ?????

[Joshz]

Btw I don't think Masons should out reasons why they tr someone unless said person is getting votes/someone getting lynched like nac just did with ari because others can simply sheep said reasons for there tr from a mason
I assume masons have a pt and putting there reasons there would be good so when 1 dies you can basically say "my partner thought ___ was town because of ____"

the issue with this is the masons have had vastly different reads pretty much all game

[Joshz]

Masons, can you talk at night?

[Joshz]

Ok good. So in the event whoever we lynch flips town nacho can give his thoughts to luv on what the following course of action should be. I say this because it's pretty inevitable nacho dies tn.

[Joshz]

luv, do you have thoughts on aj you wanna build? you put him under might be town with me and aj is the lynch myself and (afaik) nacho are currently vying for, so a conftowns thoughts on it are appreciated. anyone else and particularly twoface are free to give their thoughts too.

[Joshz]

tbh im gonna be REALLY busy until tuesday too, ill still be able to post so i dont need vla but the thread will likely be on a christmasy half pause for the next few days. im sure the rest of you are gonna be at least a little busy with your celebrations too.

[Joshz]

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Joshz]

I haven't actually read the game yet, but as it stands:

Town:
Aristophanes - Nacho's read
Nachomamma8 - Mason
Lil Uzi Vert - Mason

Slight town:
Gamma Emerald - Having's votes
xSoniaNevermindx - Nacho's read

Slight Scum:
TwoFace - Hasving's votes seem like the basic - dump a vote on a partner for distancing because you don't want to bus play

Scum:
Aj The Epic - Nacho's read
Joshz - Like big time, like hugely, like blindingly obvious. He scream scum. Maybe, that'll change once I read his posts but so far it screams 'invested in the game; trying to play to win; not actually engaged in scumhunting'

Vote:Joshz

Read his posts. Haven't changed my mind. Although he was less invested than I thought; how has he not been called out on it from what I'd read before I though the active lurking was going to be more subtle? Plus, the fact that he's twice planned his night kills in the thread.

It actually did reduce the probability I have for him being scum. Since, surely I must have missed something that cleared him for him to get away like this.

LMAOOOOOO

Sorry luv my read on vedith is back to red.

[Joshz]

I do typically scum read people who scum read me, see normal 1850 (one of the only games I've completed on this site). But actually, I've been scumreading vedith the entire game and only backed off when luv and hiraki got in my head, so actually, it's you that is voting me with that logic and the irony is funny. And your list overall is shit. But let's see what you come up with when catching up, idk if this is some mentality of joining the thread -> scumreading me -> catching up -> ending the stupidity because aj did that too but hey, I want to see your reads.

[Joshz]

He was saying TwoFace and gamma was the solve........ you're REALLY stretching here. Do I get any credit for fitz lynch to you? Note my posts where I refused to join either wagon.

[Joshz]

Finisged Day One. Two gets no credit for Having's lynch. It is almost causing me to guffaw that he claims otherwise. Gamma gets much credit. You can put him on almost certainly town.

Andf paty of why Josh has been unecamined is made clear. Math - very sensibe guy - died night one after having previously been the one to suspect him.

OK here's what you're going to do if you don't want me to vote you right here: prove this line

"Math - very sensibe guy - died night one after having previously been the one to suspect him"

[Joshz]

im not lynching creeps or gamma right now

i will consider lynching hiraki if thats who it comes down to

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

We have under a day to reach majority and get a lynch. What makes you think that people are going to see the light on Vedith and suddenly vote him out if you're not going to put in the work to get it done? Who else would you vote as a compromise?

i already said id potentially vote hiraki out of the 3 current wagons. i would also most likely vote for fitz, scumdeers, and frank just for idling so much as attention is off of him, though i dont think id vote anyone else.

ok full disclosure: i only skimmed
town {misa, luv}
slight town {twoface}
null {frank, hiraki, gamma, aristophanes, tvd, creeps}
slight scum {vedith}
scum {scumdearsaretasty, fitz}

sorry but io's page 1 posts are fucking awful and scumdearsaretasty's content has all been mediocre / hasnt changed my mind on it. fitz has been covered by twoface. vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that. hiraki is probably slightly more scum than the other nulls but potato potato hes active. creeps is closer to null but ive already sr'd him and led his mislynch once this week only for a JOAT flip, i dont intend to do it again. his play is pretty close to NAI. if you lynch him its policy because i doubt hes scum. misa/luv obv mason claims for NOW, but note i sr'd luv a bit before his claim so they arent inno yet. twoface makes good arguments against fitz + i like him defending eric whos town and it felt more genuine than hiraki.

this was what i was referencing fwiw. granted, hiraki and frank out of those 4 have flipped town, and the fourth is aj who i think is moderately likely scum, especially if we clear aristo (jaoewfjweofac).

[Joshz]

or he died because he bgd nacho but speculating that isnt particularly helpful

[Joshz]

Yo aj if you think I'm scummy apart from Eric make a case and if you feel strongest about it vote me but don't bitch about how I'm useless and scummy while not pressuring me

[Joshz]

I understand that. I'm saying half a days with of posts should not be enough to pass someone as town no matter how townie said posts are. If you're scum reading me you should absolutely case me, even if you don't vote me because overall with Eric I'm townie. Town benefits from all information.

[Joshz]

deadlines coming up folks, empking try and have your read through done today please!

[Joshz]

VOTE: empking

(this post was active lurking in an artful way)

[Joshz]

if youve finished reading lets see your thoughts on the game besides me being a manipulative artful scum active-lurker. i must have a partner, no? whats your game plan if i were to be lynched and if i were to flip town?

[Joshz]

i am what he would call active lurking too because ive already given all my thoughts and just want the thread to progress. empking's reads are basically what we are all waiting for.

[Joshz]

So Sonia should stop posting whereas I am scum when we both active lurk?

What's the purpose of sonia not posting? Activity is to the towns advantage. And no, you haven't given updated reads after your preliminary read. Post a reads list please, the player list is small enough!
K

TF is town.

Can do Ari/Emp/Gamma today.

Hm

So aj is not something you're considering? This is not a loaded question, just yn.

[Joshz]

Does anyone want to comment at all on Twoface's twofaceness of flip-flopping between 'I tried to avoid lynching claimed PR Day One" and "Oh it was obvious that we were going to lynch a claimed PR Day One" depending on the question you ask him about the exact same post and invite?

Lots has happened in this thread recently, that is just one example, there is absolutely no need to be twiddling one's thumbs and repeating things baselessly.

P-Edit: Sinis is town based on Creep wagon, and no spamming one character comments is not good for the town. It makes the thread more painful to read for no gain to the town.

Also, are you saying (in post 2028) that I have given no scum reads other than my one on you?

Your read post was before you read the thread (said by you). You've skimmed of her people, mostly TwoFace, but never really given a concrete read. You also started scumreading me before you read the thread.

[Joshz]

if youve finished reading lets see your thoughts on the game besides me being a manipulative artful scum active-lurker. i must have a partner, no? whats your game plan if i were to be lynched and if i were to flip town?

i did not say youve given no reads besides me. your reads post was pre-reading the thread. you have not given comphrehensive reads besides what seems to be fosing twoface and a couple town reads (trusting one mason on aristo being town and putting him as town when the other disagrees is also bad!). youve finished reading youve said, so whats your updated reads list?

[Joshz]

empking, what is your solve in the hypothetical situation that you were to know for a fact im town?

[Joshz]

Ty for answering my questions Empking, regardless of alignment I ask a lot of questions and appreciate prompt answers

Deciding whether to lynch Empking or Aj; that's where my heads at today. I'll leave my vote where it is for now and stew on it

Back to cuddling doggo

[Joshz]

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

We have under a day to reach majority and get a lynch. What makes you think that people are going to see the light on Vedith and suddenly vote him out if you're not going to put in the work to get it done? Who else would you vote as a compromise?

i already said id potentially vote hiraki out of the 3 current wagons. i would also most likely vote for fitz, scumdeers, and frank just for idling so much as attention is off of him, though i dont think id vote anyone else.

I'd LIKE to think if I had said I'd lynch creeps or gamma then the fitz wagon would not have happened but clearly there's ego bias at play.

[Joshz]

Luv was tring the vedith slot whereas Nacho was scumreading it afaik.

Nacho, your preferred lynch is aj. However, are you strongly opposed to an Empking lynch?
Luv, who of aj and Empking would you compromise on lynching if it came down to it? Are you still as confident in your vedith read?

Gamma, I don't remember anything from you in a long time. Do you have any thoughts on the game as it is right now?

[Joshz]

That's l-2
Nobody lolhammer

[Joshz]

"Luv: What do you think about josh trying to shut down discussion - first claiming deadline was near when we had more than four days, then trying to narrow down the lynch pool to me and AJ - once AJ and myself started looking suspiciously at him and Two?"


OK you're scum because this never happened. I didn't try to shut down discussion, I warned deadline was approaching and asked for your reads to discuss....... on what planet is generating discussion shutting down discussion? Aj is not looking suspiciously at me, he's the one who said I'm probs town and that he has bigger fish to fry. 4 days = deadline near when the day is 2 weeks long and half of you are inactive as fuck, and the lynch pool is you and Aj to me and I am seeing if people agree on that.

Now stop existing please. I am set on my vote on Empking now and have no intention to change it. He's blatantly lied multiple times about me even excluding TwoFace - for example saying I'm reactionarily voting him when I called his slot scum for the entire game. If Empking is town he's a useless fuck and with everything he says I get more convinced he's scum.

[Joshz]

deadlines coming up folks, empking try and have your read through done today please!

Why don't you explain to me how this is active lurking, your favorite buzzword? Or how it is "shutting down discussion"? Oh wait, this is low-level thinking and active lurking too, my bad bro!

[Joshz]

Got to Two's revote. Its meh, the fact it comes after Gamma says he thinks Having looked scummy is a slight point in his favour.

LMAOOOOOO

Sorry luv my read on vedith is back to red.

Am I right in thinking that its another: "You think I'm scum, you must be scum"?

[Joshz]

Despite all this nobody hammer before the masons get on to give thoughts (oh sorry for more active lurking my bad empking)

[Joshz]

I'm sorry. Semantics are the BEST scumtell. That's my vote pool and who I will vote for. Not lynch. Happy professor? It doesn't need to be a material vote, but again, sorry, I'll make sure to use technical terminology. Not reactionary vote, just reactionary fos!

I'm done talking to you because these stupid repetitive questions to TwoFace and myself are just that; stupid and repetitive. Oops I used the semicolon wrong classic scum tell.

[Joshz]

Haha that was a good one I miss lonely island

[Joshz]

Look at the post but the opposite of that

[Joshz]

Cool buddy

You say I'm active lurking but I'm not the one recycling arguments over and over

I used it as an example of blatant lying. The post contained more. You have stated why you disagree. This doesn't need to be discussed over and over, stop active lurking.

[Joshz]

Yea im just here to active lurk, kill discussion and lie about the deadline. I'm sorry for scum slipping TwoFace

[Joshz]

You see how annoying I sound? That is how you sound to me. So try arguments that aren't semantics and ~classic scum slips~ such as using ellipsis.

[Joshz]

Guys Empking just scum slipped lmao! Get this: he confused two post #s. A townie would need to pay much more attention, but a scum can just active lurk and coast the game which he is clearly doing. Any townie would know the correct post numbers, it's a scumtell he confused them!

[Joshz]

????
"Am I right in thinking that its another: "You think I'm scum, you must be scum"?
I think you're scum, so I must be scum. That's what's happening. I scum read vedith the entire game, you don't get other come in the thread scum read me and say I'm scumreading you for scumreading me. It is the opposite that happened. Your high-larious scum tells are funny tho.

Now why are we having this pointless circular discussion when the thread is waiting for the masons to comment on this? Apologies in advance for killing discussion.

[Joshz]

Don't hammer without nacho giving his opinion (doubt you would anyways but yh)

[Joshz]

It's generally to alert everyone that he's planning on hammering and they should get any last thoughts in / any final arguments on the lynch. It is also when people typically claim but it's safe to assume you're claiming vt so not really relevant here.

[Joshz]

Your reads list didn't change at all before and after. That's bad regardless of alignment. Admitting when you're wrong is a virtue. My sarcasm is light, I bear no ill will to you and when you flip scum there will be no need to apologize if postgame

[Joshz]

And that's a major reason I'm leaving ms but anyways not the place nor time

[Joshz]

Your reads list didn't change at all before and after. That's bad regardless of alignment. Admitting when you're wrong is a virtue. My sarcasm is light, I bear no ill will to you and when you flip scum there will be no need to apologize if postgame

Do you know what emp is talking about with regards to fitz's reaction to creeps?

I don't remember any reaction

I don't have anything to quote, I don't think sonia is scum though.

Aristo, what about his "case" on me?

[Joshz]

He is emp ya

[Joshz]

his case on me is basically im an active lurker

[Joshz]

that was complete sarcasm and empking already acknowledged it was sarcasm. posted because i was getting fed up with how ridiculous his arguments are.

anyways: Nacho, I'm confused what you're saying and what you want to happen here.

[Joshz]

that was complete sarcasm and empking already acknowledged it was sarcasm. posted because i was getting fed up with how ridiculous his arguments are.

anyways: Nacho, I'm confused what you're saying and what you want to happen here.

Empking replaced in two days ago. There are now 4 votes on him and 2 intents to hammer.
Don't you think that it would be prudent to give him more time than that?

i already said a couple times for noone to hammer, i agree. but ive scumread vedith since the threads ineption, and you had a sr on the slot too so im not alone

[Joshz]

luv, its important you remember that you strongly townread vedith when he was in that slot. i didnt, but you did. so you should make sure you believe empking's scumminess outweights his predecessors' towniness. its kinda funny because nacho is in the opposite boat in sring vedith but tring empking.

id like to point out too that scum is in a very hard position IF twoface and myself are eliminated from the lynch pool; thats only 5 to lynch out of, 4 if you accept a mason clearing aristo. scum are pretty forced to discredit someone that isnt a mason if possible, and one just subbing into the game might see twoface not being on the fitz lynch and myself "active lurking" (sorry i legit dont understand you here) as opportunities. this is evidenced by the fact empking's read post remains the same pre and post read through.

[Joshz]

You have still not said ANY case about me besides active lurking.

[Joshz]

Link

[Joshz]

its ok nacho might have an argument to not lynch empking, he seemed eager

[Joshz]

twoface's arguments were why i lynched fitz. i read the argument as tvs and his side seemed more genuine. and empking, for all your effort, i dont think twoface is necessarily lock town, and i found his unvote odd too. however, i think he is very likely town and youre arguing he didnt cause the fitz lynch when he was a major factor. i think i suspect twoface more than any other player in this game besides yourself which is a little bit (not much), and if you had played this differently i might have considered your arguments if you had good point. instead you... well, ive said why youre scum. with your current arguments youve stated and argued twoface a ton yet im scum only for active lurking and im the one youre voting, DESPITE twoface being who youre vocally pushing? that doesnt make sense. the fact youre so certain twoface and i are the scum team when i know im clear actually increases my opinion of twoface, and you dug your own grave. if you flip town, i intend to reread day 1 and redecide. but i genuinely dont believe you can flip town at this point, your behaviour is incredibly anti-town. BEST CASE SCENARIO is you are a vi, and you arent getting killed so in lylo you mislynch myself or twoface and lose the game if it gets to that point (scum can kill 3 more ppl, being nacho luv and one of myself and twoface). im more confident in my vote on you than i was with fitz or hiraki, so its staying unless nacho gives me a really good argument as to why i should lynch aj.

[Joshz]

show me my frequent references to the deadline

[Joshz]

and nacho said hed bet the game im town, if thats ignored then ok!

[Joshz]

My solve rn is aj and Empking so it doesn't really matter which is lynched first. However, I disagree with your logic. Empking's TwoFace case makes some ok points, I could pass it. However, not only is his case on me ENTIRELY that I'm active lurking, he is voting me instead of the actual case. His reads stayed the same pretty and post read and he is selectively replying and has been caught wrong multiple times. I think your scenario makes more sense with Empking voting TwoFace and me being his partner read and second lynch; not otherwise. I also don't think myself and TwoFace are good partners even If YOU think one of us are scum, Twoface's partner would be one of the people calling him lock town.

Nacho, it is not impossible that i'd lynch aj first. I just think that if either aj or Empking are town I'd rather have aj alive since he can admit when he's wrong.

[Joshz]

If you want to talk about work off the bat sonia won't even read the thread. :/

Nacho, give the plan for when you die. Who do we lynch in a scum flip from aj (gamma?) AND who in a town flip? We should also get another reads post from you detailing how confident out are in every player being dead. Everyone seems to respect your play; it's important for that to be here.

I will lynch aj for you if you're 100% sure. I think it's a mistake, but I will. This is if TwoFace and luv agree.

[Joshz]

TwoFace
Empking
Lil Uzi Vert
xSoniaNevermindx
Aj The Epic
Gamma Emerald
Joshz
Aristophanes
Nachomamma8

Living ppl, aka 9. Nacho night kill, lynch, 7. Luv night kill, lynch, 5. Lylo at this point if we haven't caught scum. Twoface/josh night kill, lynch, 3. Lylo. Basically we can lynch at least 3 and very likely 4 people. There are only 5 potential scum (6 if you're Empking and town). We have a lot of lynching left, and we've basically won this game if we accept your aristo read. So, it's not hard to make a plan going forward, because kills are lined up.

[Joshz]

i dont want to lynch gamma over aj + empking, i want to lynch in that pairing. :/