Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Joshz]

AM I EXPECTED TO REMEMBER POSTS IN THE THREAD BY NUMBER AND CAPS ARE COOL BECAUSE I LOOK ANGRY AND BY THE WAY CALLING THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS HILARIOUS AND IRONICALLY ATE

[Hiraki]

AM I EXPECTED TO REMEMBER POSTS IN THE THREAD BY NUMBER AND CAPS ARE COOL BECAUSE I LOOK ANGRY AND BY THE WAY CALLING THAT A PERSONAL ATTACK IS HILARIOUS AND IRONICALLY ATE

No, but I would expect you to remember something that:

1) Changed your mind
2) Someone who changed your mind, since that is where you get all of your reads

Writing normally didn't work.

[Hiraki]

I mean, if Vedith is such a big scumread, wouldn't be hard for you to explain why he's scum, no?

[TwoFace]

THIS IS BLANTANT MISREPRESENTATION! WHAT THE FUCK?

No it's not cause the part I quoted is the part I have a problem with. I can't misrep you if all I did was quote you

[Hiraki]

THIS IS BLANTANT MISREPRESENTATION! WHAT THE FUCK?

No it's not cause the part I quoted is the part I have a problem with. I can't misrep you if all I did was quote you

The part that doesn't make sense without the other half? Yeah?

[TwoFace]

There's zero chance I'm voting anyone else at this point. I don't think hiraki is town but if he is good riddance. He's shown absolutely no town minded thinking/attitude this entire day phase.

These all caps is just fake emotional out bursts imo.

The other parts don't matter. I don't care if you have more evidence.(which you didn't really) The point is you said that one part was vote worthy alone and it isn't Imo. I don't see how anyone with a town role pm would think what you've said.

[Joshz]

OK GUYS I'M BACK - I'M READY TO KICK ASS AGAIN, THE ULT CHARGE IS BACK:

Okay that response from Hiraki tbh was crap.

Great! I would love to hear what you disagreed about! Oh wait! I can't have that opportunity if you just shout something out with reasoning! Wooo! Aren't posts like these SUPER productive?????

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

Not with posts like that he's not

OH! BUT I'M /SURE/ I CAN RESPOND TO THIS O-

Nope, can't do that either! Weeee!

VCA is included in my reads bro

Included, or the sole basis? Again, have you read Day 1?

you hate it when people call themselves town?

It creates a huge bias in your reads that not everyone else can follow because only you know that you're town.

plus his posts today are very scummy

Great! Remember yesterday when TwoFace

literally

said that he just can't respond to my posts anymore? Haha! That was not irritating at all!

and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town.

Because confirmed town are always correct, right???

why not look into people I am scum reading?

You keep asking us if we think you're tunneling and THIS is the question that you pose to Vedith?

Really?

He's done very little explaining.

(citation needed)

Tbh this does sound like an interesting idea
Vedith's pushes today leave something to be desired

What does this mean????

How do people's /pushes/ leave something to be desired? I don't even know how to put that in a more inquisitve way. It's like Gamma saw candy and said "Ooo! That one looks yummy right now!"

Can you guys really form solid reads and opinions???

ive scum read you for a while

vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that.

there is scum in vedith and scumdeers :*

I don't particularly like mathblade (no offense meant I dislike most people I'm an asshole) but idt he's scum. Yknow who's scum? Vedith!

VOTE: vedith

This is mostly for twiszted slot. Looking at twiszted content, it's disgustingly bad. Vedith has idled and not been particularly townie himself, so while his content is more of a null read twiszteds was enough to make him likely scum.

It's not a fake read, you're scum. Stop diverting attention.

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

ive scrolled through the thread and isos a ton and i feel confident gut wise about vedith being scum, but i dont have a case atm that i can post so for now and i get im not being very convincing.

Now, hold on - this one is important:

changed my mind a bit on vedith but i still scum read twiszted pretty hard so he is only slightly town overall as a slot

townier side/null {gamma, vedith}

still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town.

BEEP BEEP

hiraki/gamma/frank most likely contains both scum, id still lynch vedith but apparently nobody agrees with that so

What happened between these two posts that made you switch your read from null/town to scum? Keep in mind that you had

four

scumreads at that time and Ved beats out all of them???? Huh???

yay for someone else scumreading vedith!

And this is the official scumread. I think you have some explaining to do.

because other people are starting to as well

OK, so here's what I want:

In almost every post that you call Vedith scum, you refer to TwisTed as being the BIGGEST source for this scumread - is there anything that happened between 1161 and 1221 that made you switch so quickly from Vedith's posting?

If we're lucky Creeps will get replaced and we'll have another active member of the town.

As for Creeps, from my experience, he's like this and is going to most likely be a difficult read. We'll see what he brings to the table Day 2.

I didn't say that posting on mobile was scummy or bad. I just thought that utilizing mobile to reply to what is clearly something that requires more attention is not the best method utilize. I find it very ironic that my point was not that you posted on mobile but moreso that I posted an argument against you (i.e. something that you asked AJ to do) and then you proceeded to kind of just throw it into the trash.

Was that attack toward me really necessary? I said /nothing/ about your social life. I care about your social as much as you care about mine.

For someone who is a newbie (I'm really not buying that you're experienced in mafia), I hope you learn that taking criticism about your play is an essential part of this game and don't resort to frivolous arguments in the future.

Can you now address the arguments I've brought up?

Post-Edit:

I'm a townie-nothing more to say on my claim. I honestly would rather self-hammer just to make the town a little more self-aware that this tunneling shit has gone WAY too far. Please Gamma for the love of god. Can you FUCKING explain what's crap? I've asked you TIME and TIME again and I've gotten nothing but the next post saying "Hey, Hiraki's post is crap"

Here are some examples:

OK just looking at Hiraki's last post I'm not very pleased by what he's saying. Specifically his ad hominem attack on TF.

Okay that response from Hiraki tbh was crap.

That's not a productive way to play. Gamma has not ever explained this scumread.

When I die (there's really no IF here, this train has no brakes) please look at Joshz and Gamma much harder.

POST-EDIT: CHRIST, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on but his next post gives more substantial evidence.

Like wtf is this shit?

THIS IS BLANTANT MISREPRESENTATION! WHAT THE FUCK?

HERE'S WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID:

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on but his next post gives more substantial evidence.

Vedith did nothing between those posts.

THE IMPORTANT PART IS THE LATER. IT'S BECAUSE THE POST I QUOTED SAID THAT JOSHZ HAD NO IDEA WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THOSE POSTS WITH VEDITH. I KNEW WHAT HAPPENED FROM THE BEGINNING BUT DIDN'T POINT MY FINGER OUT FIRST.

LIKE REALLY? DO YOU HAVE ANY READING COMPREHENSION?

This addresses the something I asked aj to do line. Are you calling thst a push on me? You never even stated you scum read me, never mind voted me. You actually haven't posted a read on me since like mid d1... or replied to my scum reads on you at all until aj mentioned me as his (only so far) scum read.

If you want me to talk personally, I'm not a newbie, I just play on sites with communities that respect me. A personal flaw I have is that I can't take criticism from people I consider worse than me and I skipped the part of acquiring respect on ms and as a result I've met several people on here that I can't stand and basically killed myself in this community so I'm leaving when my games are done. That's fine. The meta here is very different anyways. I take criticism 100% and adapt my game based on how my last one goes. So, if you were to flip town, I'd look at you again as someone I scumread to see where I went wrong. Here's the thing: I can't go into more detail because ongoing but there hasn't been a single game on this site where I haven't been scum read by old players. I appear as a helpless whiny newbie which makes scummy old people think I'm an easy push or think whiteknighting me locks in an easy vote as scum. It didn't work out in 1850 (gamma was in it) where I was the earliest to read scum, and that's the only game that I can directly reference. I do good when I play with people who know how to read people who play in a different meta. It's very different from reading your own site. That mostly happened so far this game so I doubt I'll get mislynched at this stage but who knows. It's a personal flaw that I refuse to act like a newbie and I'm definitely not perfect. But anyways, tangent point being that you're scum and I'm not the easy newbie mislynch you want. New to ms =/= new to the concept of mafia.




I explained why vedith was scum to nacho a long time ago, look in my iso. He said it was fair. The confirmed townies dropped it so I did, I explained my thoughts already and if they are telling me they disagree I don't scum read vedith strong enough to value arguing. To appease you after posting I'm going to go read through the numbers you linked regardless of being on mobile, survivor finale just ended and I'm bored regardless.

[TwoFace]

I mean, if Vedith is such a big scumread, wouldn't be hard for you to explain why he's scum, no?

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

[TwoFace]

Scum read not town read

[Joshz]

D1 FINAL VOTE COUNT

havingfitz (7): Nachomamma8, Gamma Emerald, Joshz, Lil Uzi Vert, Aristophanes, Vedith, MathBlade

Creeps20 (3): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, FrankJaeger
MathBlade (2): Creeps20, TwoFace
Gamma Emerald (1): havingfitz


No Vote (0):

Well idk joshz vote here is prob town...

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

it does somewhat make sense

Spoiler: my reads list for those who forgot

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}

i did put gamma in the townier pile. however, rereading through day one creeps has now moved up to the townier side based on his interactions with fitz especially and everyone. i do not agree scumdeers is necessarily town but theyre certainly the less scummy of the idlers. i need to go back and reread gamma's interactions and votes to say for sure.

rn the people im looking at are fitz hiraki and gamma (big shock). still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town. i am keeping my vote on frank though for now.

If scum bussed i would bet vedith but nothing to back that up currently

I had him as scum all day yesterday.
This post just reads as "Lets push else where to divert attention from me not voting there."

VOTE: Frank
GTFO.

TwoFace is confirm town for me and Math is a smart enough player to see that as well. Scum more than likely attacked TwoFace and Math protected there.

hirak and vedith. one of them are scum. atleast.
both of their votes seem fake.

ved how was he the towniest by far?

Because he was pushing for Fritz from the start. He wasn't just trying to go with the flow trying to direct the lynch else where like you.
Anyone not town reading TwoFace needs to give a reason why.

Also, your "scum in Vedith / Haraki" comment is just a scum comment of "Lets lynch both because I know their alignment".

Tell me, why didn't you vote up Fritz?
What was town looking for him to not be worth lynching?

it's impossible to know for sure though. we can't even make a real educated guess

From the amount I've played with Math, I'm making an educated guess.
Frank is highly likely as scum here.

I actually completely missed his claim and I'm aware that looks bad on me buy what can you do. My bad.

Unvote and VOTE: hiraki

What specifically are you looking for? Frank was a genuine scum read of mine. Noticing his claim and people reinforcing it was reasonable, a slot I was confident in being scum opened up. You never even answered my question at you btw, thanks for having me reread and notice that. Someone else (twoface) scum reading vedith was what I needed to convince me I wasn't just misguided, which granted is still very well a possibility. Despite a genuine frank scum read I am pretty sure at least one scum would've voted him because he was a truly easy push - that said, a lot of us scum read frank so it's a very very minor part of my thoughts.

[Hiraki]

These all caps is just fake emotional out bursts imo.

Let me be very clear. They are very real. No matter what you are at the end of this game or what happens, this is the final game that I will be playing with you or Gamma. I will respectfully stop there. I usually don't comment on these things but I do not want to be called fake.

You never even stated you scum read me, never mind voted me.

I am currently voting you.

You actually haven't posted a read on me since like mid d1... or replied to my scum reads on you at all until aj mentioned me as his (only so far) scum read.

Why does this matter?

The middle paragraph really doesn't mean anything to me. I am not trying to lynch you because I think you're a newb, I'm trying to lynch you because I think you're scum.

I explained why vedith was scum to nacho a long time ago, look in my iso. The confirmed townies dropped it so I did, I explained my thoughts already and if they are telling me they disagree I don't scum read vedith strong enough to value arguing.

1) I don't see this post. Mind helping me?
2) I don't see Nacho ever saying that he agreed with you. Just that he asked you to formulate your opinion.

Post-Edit: Gonna address the next post in a different post, just a bit too much for me right now.

I mean, if Vedith is such a big scumread, wouldn't be hard for you to explain why he's scum, no?

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

Nothing - more concerning if he was avoiding answering a question on a scumread.

I did the same thing when the HF stuff went up in flames about you making connections.

You never even answered my question at you btw, thanks for having me reread and notice that.

What question?

You never even answered my question at you btw, thanks for having me reread and notice that. Someone else (twoface) scum reading vedith was what I needed to convince me I wasn't just misguided, which granted is still very well a possibility. Despite a genuine frank scum read I am pretty sure at least one scum would've voted him because he was a truly easy push - that said, a lot of us scum read frank so it's a very very minor part of my thoughts.

Let me get this straight:

In Post 1217 - Joshz posts that he thinks Vedith is scum. The main crux of the above argument is that he was following a confirmed townie (FJ) which as much as I don't agree with is still somewhat of his own opinion.

However, Frank only claimed in Post 1228. Am I missing something? How can you use that argument if FJ didn't claim until 10 posts later?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Hiraki: I regard your posts as bad because the reactions seem exaggerated. My most recent callout is a prime example: too much eagerness in the post.

[Hiraki]

@Hiraki: I regard your posts as bad because the reactions seem exaggerated. My most recent callout is a prime example: too much eagerness in the post.

That's scummy?

Instead of looking at the arguments I'm presenting, you're solely looking at the emotions?

[Joshz]

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

it does somewhat make sense

Spoiler: my reads list for those who forgot

lock town {Nacho, LUV}
strong town {twoface}
townier side/null {gamma, vedith}
scummier side {hiraki, creeps, frank, scumdeers}

i did put gamma in the townier pile. however, rereading through day one creeps has now moved up to the townier side based on his interactions with fitz especially and everyone. i do not agree scumdeers is necessarily town but theyre certainly the less scummy of the idlers. i need to go back and reread gamma's interactions and votes to say for sure.

rn the people im looking at are fitz hiraki and gamma (big shock).

still dont think vedith/scumdeers/creeps are clear but poe wise theyre probably town.

i am keeping my vote on frank though for now.

In Post 1217 - Joshz posts that he thinks Vedith is scum. The main crux of the above argument is that he was following a confirmed townie (FJ) which as much as I don't agree with is still somewhat of his own opinion.

?

am

i

missing something?

[Hiraki]

Sorry - I misread that. I really think that's the best way to find scum but I will take back my accusation.

Unvote, Vote: Creeps

[Hiraki]

*I really don't think

[Joshz]

he constantly goes for easy pushes. the first thing he does itg is go for tvd. when that doesnt pan out, he goes for eric, the ubernoob. he gets off eventually, but like, eric was obvtown to me, though clearly im biased knowing he was townie. there are only scum reasons to push a supernoob like that, as opposed to a noob of my level who is at least competent. more importantly, literally every post of his was contentless and empty. he did not start any GOOD discussons, or join in in any. #175 is also p bad, the only game ive completed on this site scum delegated to things such as 'x is scum and bonus points who tells me why', aka tricking people into subconsciously analyzing scummy traits of a person and ignoring their actual stance. twiszted was super scummy and nothing has changed my view on that.

This approach makes sense, I'll look out for it.
I think that House is a player that occasionally misses things that most people pick up on (aka Eric's ubertowniness), so the tell is lessened somewhat but I agree that some of his early approaches look pretty terrible; right now, I'm reading through his early approach to Gamma and I don't really like what he's scumreading Gamma for (assuming and wording, neither of which are scumtells in any sense of the word).

Me and House don't get along well
First game he tunneled me for parts of Days 1, 2, and 3, wavering his read so he could guage my alignment
Second game I had a read discrepancy he attacked me on, but he was scum so EH

I don't mind that he was pushing; I mind how he pushed.
I don't really think that he thought that it was scummy that you gave an interpretation of how someone was thinking because you didn't say "this is an interpretation" first.

this is what i was referencing when i said i explained my scum read on vedith

[Joshz]

also i type like i have an ego but thats just how i type, i know im a beginner & dont mean to insult people ;3

[Hiraki]

No worries. Didn't take it too personally, honestly. Just wanted to get you stop talking about your newbness and start talking about the game.

I'm glad we could resolve our qualms normally, no matter what occurs from here on out.

[Dierfire]

Seeking replacement for Creeps20

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Gamma

[Vedith]

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

Refuses?
This is discrediting, show where I out right refuse to do so.

[TwoFace]

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

Refuses?
This is discrediting, show where I out right refuse to do so.

That isn't discrediting. It's the truth.

You've been asked to explain

You haven't explained.

That's refusal. You don't have to actually say the word.

[TwoFace]

Can somebody hammer hiraki now?

[Vedith]

That isn't discrediting. It's the truth.

You've been asked to explain

You haven't explained.

That's refusal. You don't have to actually say the word.

You're fucking stupid.
You are pushing me for refusing when that's just your assumption, yet, when I've asked you to do something, you have actually refused and saif that you are not doing it.
I mean, what?

This town is going to be our downfall because it's full of idiots.