Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hiraki has no one to blame but himself. Still blacklisting him after this game.
_____

Confirmed Town: Me and Nacho
Practically Confirmed: TwoFace and Vedith
Might Be Town: AJ, Josh
Probably Scum: Ari, Gamma, and Sonia

_____

Me and Nacho are masons.

_____

TF was the driving force behind the Fitz wagon from the jump and fought tooth and nail a lot more than I did to ensure Creeps wouldn't be lynched. I have a decent amount of games with him and he doesn't strike me as a gimmicks guy, meaning he's probably not one to try to WIFOM towns to victory as scum. I also feel he's a decent judge of skill level so I don't see him sticking his neck out so hard unless Creeps had an very important role for the scum team.

Vedith was exactly like TF was with Creeps when it came to Hiraki, just went about it the wrong way as he was unable to explain the town read he had on him due to the fact that he could potential violate site rules. It doesn't make sense for scum Vedith to defend a townie this hard considering the game state and how much attention not explaining the read could've gotten him. We have had two confirmed masons since Day 1. I see scum more likely to try to buddy one of us than opposed to Hiraki who doesn't strike me as a guy who would be easy to manipulate.

_____

I've liked a lot of AJ's content at a glance but I haven't given it much of a look until now. I don't like his push on Josh is solely on his slot predecessors play. I think he would have to know that sort of push isn't going to go through considering he didn't sub in the same time Josh did and it has been a struggle to get lynches like that to go through considering Creeps slot is still alive. His case on Ari is solid and is probably where my vote is going to at the end of this.

Josh's pushes have been pretty nonsensical but on a reread the tone of a lot of his posts feel town and his frustrations after being pressured from AJ and Hiraki seem genuine.

_____

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep. Called out a lot of his posts feel fake to me earlier. Going to wait for the defense on him from Nacho. He doesn't feel like the best lynch today though.

Gamma is a PoE read for me. I still don't and will not scum read him for forcing me to claim but when I go through everyone else like I just did, I don't see him fitting in the categories that don't include me and Nacho. Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that.

Sonia - I haven't payed much attention to this slot because Creeps was the predecessor and while I usually don't keep reads on a slot, this felt like a special case. Sadly I've made a mistake. She has done nothing to redeem this slot at all. Her unwillingness to reread feels telling, especially considering that me and Nacho were pretty much public knowledge at that point and I would naturally think if you're town, you would want to know how I claimed. Her push on AJ is also terrible. There was no wagon on the Eric slot at the time and as I explained earlier, the likelihood of a lynch on that slot going through at that point of the game was slim to none.

[Joshz]

Hiraki has no one to blame but himself. Still blacklisting him after this game.
_____

Confirmed Town: Me and Nacho
Practically Confirmed: TwoFace and Vedith
Might Be Town: AJ, Josh
Probably Scum: Ari, Gamma, and Sonia

_____

Me and Nacho are masons.

_____

TF was the driving force behind the Fitz wagon from the jump and fought tooth and nail a lot more than I did to ensure Creeps wouldn't be lynched. I have a decent amount of games with him and he doesn't strike me as a gimmicks guy, meaning he's probably not one to try to WIFOM towns to victory as scum. I also feel he's a decent judge of skill level so I don't see him sticking his neck out so hard unless Creeps had an very important role for the scum team.

Vedith was exactly like TF was with Creeps when it came to Hiraki, just went about it the wrong way as he was unable to explain the town read he had on him due to the fact that he could potential violate site rules. It doesn't make sense for scum Vedith to defend a townie this hard considering the game state and how much attention not explaining the read could've gotten him. We have had two confirmed masons since Day 1. I see scum more likely to try to buddy one of us than opposed to Hiraki who doesn't strike me as a guy who would be easy to manipulate.

_____

I've liked a lot of AJ's content at a glance but I haven't given it much of a look until now. I don't like his push on Josh is solely on his slot predecessors play. I think he would have to know that sort of push isn't going to go through considering he didn't sub in the same time Josh did and it has been a struggle to get lynches like that to go through considering Creeps slot is still alive. His case on Ari is solid and is probably where my vote is going to at the end of this.

Josh's pushes have been pretty nonsensical but on a reread the tone of a lot of his posts feel town and his frustrations after being pressured from AJ and Hiraki seem genuine.

_____

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep. Called out a lot of his posts feel fake to me earlier. Going to wait for the defense on him from Nacho. He doesn't feel like the best lynch today though.

Gamma is a PoE read for me. I still don't and will not scum read him for forcing me to claim but when I go through everyone else like I just did, I don't see him fitting in the categories that don't include me and Nacho. Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that.

Sonia - I haven't payed much attention to this slot because Creeps was the predecessor and while I usually don't keep reads on a slot, this felt like a special case. Sadly I've made a mistake. She has done nothing to redeem this slot at all. Her unwillingness to reread feels telling, especially considering that me and Nacho were pretty much public knowledge at that point and I would naturally think if you're town, you would want to know how I claimed. Her push on AJ is also terrible. There was no wagon on the Eric slot at the time and as I explained earlier, the likelihood of a lynch on that slot going through at that point of the game was slim to none.

"Also MB pushed him pretty hard Day 1 and had an actual meta case to back it up if I recall correctly so we all may have to revisit that."
i noticed this on my reread too, mathblade was pretty certain of scum gamma, and so was hiraki.

but anyways, luv, please convince me vedith is town if possible. itd make my reads much easier.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well the same 2 who voted fitz with me voted creeps also so I think that rules out possible budddies don't ya think? I get why people are voting creeps, but again gut says he's probably town. I don't see scum playing blatantly scummy like that.

No, I don't think that rules out buddies.
Why is Creeps probably town for you? You need to explain that further.

Also waiting for your read on Hiraki to be explained more.

Creeps isn't playing like how I expect scum to play. He's saying scummy things and doesn't care. I almost never see scum do that.

Hiraki on the other hand seems to be playing carefully. Saying just enough to stay relevant while not really saying anything relevant. Plus I thought it was odd hiraki outlined his reads on basically everyone but him and tvd. Hiraki' reaction to fitz just doesn't seem natural to me either. Kind of hard to explain that last one.

Creeps is playing scum, but not how you expect scum to play?
So you expect scum to play town.
You also

almost

never see scum play like that, meaning that you still do?

Hiraki is playing how town should play, but how scum would play? Or did I mis understand this part?

You can probably see why I don't follow you here, right?

You are misunderstanding. Plus I don't care if you follow me or not.

Then help me understand, because that's how I read it.
You should care if I follow, if you actually think he's scum.

creeps is saying stuff that on the surface looks scummy to most people (not me personally but to others) but I don't see anything that has scum intent. He comes off as just a bad player who doesn't really care how he is perceived. Typically scum are going to care how they are perceived. Scum need to blend in and look townish

I mean, don't get me wrong, you're probably right here and normally (even more so day 1) the "scummy" plays turn out to be town. This doesn't mean that pressure shouldn't be applied.

that's what I feel hiraki is actually doing. He isn't really doing much though

Not sure what to say about this. I think you're wrong, but wrong isn't scummy.

I don't know if I can explain it any better so your simple mind can understand and tbh I am not going to waste my time. It's a gut feel kind of thing.

How do you expect to play Mafia if you can't explain, or even put the effort into people seeing what you see?
This is just you being frustrated town imo, and I don't doubt that you believe your gut and there probably is another reason to it which you're just getting flustered to explain because you think I'm only trying to shoot down your case, but I'm actually looking for a valid reason to it.

and no I don't care if you follow me or not. 2 and a half days left, the wagon on my top scum read fell apart due to a poor player being PL'd by 2 more poor players which leaves a scum read and a PL as the biggest wagons, so I joined the wagon on one of my scum reads.

Again, you should care, I'm willing to discuss over it.
Creeps won't be getting PL, as PL is for fuccbois. Anyone on his wagon not pushing it with reason will be shown as scum.
We have plenty of time to move votes back or around.

Look at that wagon on creeps - deer is kind of meh, hiraki I am scum reading, and the last 2 are basically policy lynch votes. that's a bad wagon. You are free to make up your own mind where you vote though. I have made my decision.

I'm not saying it's a good wagon. But I'm not seeing Hiraki as a good wagon.
Suggest someone else to lynch, Hiraki isn't the only scum for you, right?

@Creeps wagon - Give your reasons for voting Creeps.

Can you tag the post of the Fitz case?
Also, I'm not saying I disagree end of...

The reason I'm talking to you is because you are currently playing in the game and posting. I'm not worried about the Creeps wagon yet, and there is a lot of time still.
I don't think it's bad to discuss with you though while I check others.

I'll take a look at Fitz and TVD then
@Ari - Sell me on Fitz

Screams town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can get down with Gamma though. I remember you scum reading him.

[Joshz]

I will give into you and Hiraki who also was sure Vedith was town, at least for now.

Ari is my lynch unless Nacho has a good case that hasn't wavered since day 1. Gamma is secondary and AJ is tertiary. Sorry but I'm really not feeling scum!sonia and while I suppose I could be convinced I don't intend to lynch her today unless I see something really really compelling to waver my reads significantly.

[Aristophanes]

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep.

But is my theory scummy? Have I not been vocal?

I told you Hiraki was a bad lynch, and that he'd flip town. I did not sheep there.

I feel like people are oversimplifying my play here.

[Nachomamma8]

Hiraki has no one to blame but himself. Still blacklisting him after this game.

Couldn't disagree more.

[Joshz]

yea i have nothing against hiraki, his lynch is something im going to look back on once i know the scum team to improve my game. i dont think we couldve avoided lynching him though because we have no cop and hew ouldve been a discussion frequently.

[TwoFace]

I don't think he did anything blacklist worthy. He didn't play optimally but that's about it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's nothing with him personally, it's just based on his play for me.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Ari continues to do nothing but post mafia theory and sheep.

But is my theory scummy? Have I not been vocal?

I told you Hiraki was a bad lynch, and that he'd flip town. I did not sheep there.

I feel like people are oversimplifying my play here.

Your theory isn't helping sort or understand anything. And no, you tried to argue why MB was town, not Hiraki.

[Gamma Emerald]

Am I going to have to quote where fitz pushed me

[Joshz]

fitz pushing you doesnt make you town rofl

[Gamma Emerald]

the way he did does

[TwoFace]

the way he did does

How did he do it?

[Joshz]

i reread later d1 and already said that was a point in your favor. it is not as gamma-is-conftown as you say it is. but fine, quote away.

[Gamma Emerald]

whatever not even TF sees it

[Aristophanes]

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

lol
sarcasm is lost on you ;;


@aristo i guess nacho either knows something we dont or he no longer is confident in his read on you since he has ignored every time ive asked. who are your scum reads right now and why?

I mean, he literally already said it is simply meta. Sadly, I am very easy to meta and it gets me caught as scum a lot. Usually I'm easier to meta as scum than town, but I definitely see his application of it from my earlier gameplay.

As for scumreads, I believe I had had them on Deers and Creeps, but both slots have now changed hands and I have given them a light reset.

I like the Masons, Frank, and TwoFace as town. Hiraki is aight from my read of him, and I think Vedith could be good as well. This leaves Gamma and Josh, with the possibility of Sonia and AJ as my scumpool.

How's that?

Aristo, Hiraki, mind voting AJ with me? As far as catchups go, that one was particularly pitiful.

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

We can shift it. I think that we should shift it onto AJ.

I agree and shall I'm sure. I wanna read the last 2 pages first at least tho.

No you're right. I toootally never faught against that Hiraki wagon.

[TwoFace]

whatever not even TF sees it

I have you as probably town but not conf tow.

I'm asking you to explain what you're trying too say. What about fitz's push on you makes it less likely to be a bus/distancing

[Gamma Emerald]

whatever not even TF sees it

I have you as probably town but not conf tow.

I'm asking you to explain what you're trying too say. What about fitz's push on you makes it less likely to be a bus/distancing

The shitty logic behind it. If I was scum with him his logic would have been better as he would have inside knowledge I'm scum, allowing him to pick up on tells easier.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

lol
sarcasm is lost on you ;;


@aristo i guess nacho either knows something we dont or he no longer is confident in his read on you since he has ignored every time ive asked. who are your scum reads right now and why?

I mean, he literally already said it is simply meta. Sadly, I am very easy to meta and it gets me caught as scum a lot. Usually I'm easier to meta as scum than town, but I definitely see his application of it from my earlier gameplay.

As for scumreads, I believe I had had them on Deers and Creeps, but both slots have now changed hands and I have given them a light reset.

I like the Masons, Frank, and TwoFace as town. Hiraki is aight from my read of him, and I think Vedith could be good as well. This leaves Gamma and Josh, with the possibility of Sonia and AJ as my scumpool.

How's that?

Aristo, Hiraki, mind voting AJ with me? As far as catchups go, that one was particularly pitiful.

Wow, I came off as an ass there. Sorry man!

But really, I don't see a good reason to vote Hiraki.
Why is that a good wagon again?
Can we shift it somewhere else or is it basically decided for the day already?

We can shift it. I think that we should shift it onto AJ.

I agree and shall I'm sure. I wanna read the last 2 pages first at least tho.

No you're right. I toootally never faught against that Hiraki wagon.

You said you told me. You never talked to me about it. Only MB when I asked you why you felt he was torn.

Saying let's shift it without any reasons why hardly is putting up a fight.

[TwoFace]

I mean he did point to the asking mason to claim which is prett bad.

Have you played another game where mason was almost lynched? If yes link?

I'll be fact checking so if you say no and find one that's a scum claim.

[Aristophanes]

You said you told me. You never talked to me about it. Only MB when I asked you why you felt he was torn.

Saying let's shift it without any reasons why hardly is putting up a fight.

"I told you" was a general statement meaning I had told the thread. Imma start using "yous" I guess, since this gets confused a lot.

I was trying to work out a different lynch because this one sucked, had no strong reasoning behind it, and was on likely town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

You said you told me. You never talked to me about it. Only MB when I asked you why you felt he was torn.

Saying let's shift it without any reasons why hardly is putting up a fight.

"I told you" was a general statement meaning I had told the thread. Imma start using "yous" I guess, since this gets confused a lot.

I was trying to work out a different lynch because this one sucked, had no strong reasoning behind it, and was on likely town.

No, telling me is addesssing me directly and stating reasons why you feel something. Again, you didn't do that.

Reread his entire ISO up until his vote for Frank. His play spoke for itself.

[Aristophanes]

Lol K

This is probably the least productive conversation of the day, so Imma end it here.