Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

So why is it you can parrot my question, but not actually answer my questions?

Lynch this please.

[Nero Cain]

He clearly can't/won't debate logic,

[PenguinPower]

Then lynch that. If he's scum, good lynch. If he's town, he hurts town. Lynch it. Seriously, dude got me a scum win based off a rage vote. If he's not going to play - and not going to be replaced - lynch it.

[PenguinPower]

EBWOP: rage vote in LyLo

[ironstove]

Based on analyzing post syntax, I presumed tracer was scum due to her posts feeling very fake, thor's entrance was also scummy, however he's managed to become more towny thanks to interactions with saru/aron which made me begin to doubt my reads, however I wanted to stick to my initial read and follow through on it.

I didn't like the mal wagon, I suspected thor/nero of being a scum pair so the way the mal wagon developed due to nero's push for it, and it made me more suspicious of them.

However apparently now you come in shining a beacon of innocence on thor telling me I'm 100% completely wrong, that he is confirmed town from your point of view, and I town read your slot (for now), hence I'm trying to back off and not tunnel on him.

So giving up my scum reads leaves me with very little to do besides sheep around or be idle.

Then you come back to me, and tell me I'm scum for listening to you after you tell me I'm scum for presuming thor is scum. That's really bizarre, so I don't feel like analyzing that further.

[ironstove]

Also the ad hominem that nero/thor are using to combo on me, saying I can't/won't discuss logic, that my logic is flawed for scum reading them, etc... I'm making a few assumptions here in my play and there are two scenarios that are playing out i.e.

1. I'm correct in that nero/thor are a scum pair and you're bad and getting in my way

2. I'm wrong and I should adapt by pivoting my vote while trying to gather further information to find other scum and confirm or deny assumption #1.

[PenguinPower]

Best post from you all game.

UNVOTE:

[ironstove]

Making long-winded posts quoting a massive amount of posts is neither enjoyable for me to create nor enjoyable for me to read regardless of my faction, and I already stated to you that if you want to understand why I am voting for thor, all you had to do was ISO me, which you probably never did which is why I know you're asking me to make a case.

I don't ask people to make a case less I ISO them and find nothing and need them to clarify specifically what is setting them off.

[PenguinPower]

Had nothing to do with the content you provided, since most was a regurgitation. Based on my antagonizing posts, you feel more like the town!IS who I beat than what I think scum!IS would be. I could be wrong and this is just who you are, but for now I'm good.

[Nero Cain]

I've asked you multiple questions all of which you've ignored. Mafia is very much a team game, if you are town it is not a help to the town to ignore questions so others can better understand your position.

[PenguinPower]

So, with that out of the way, looking forward to the karnos response.

[ironstove]

VOTE: Nero

[aronagrundy]

@saru: My argument is that you felt pressure to give more scumreads after grey showed up and started yelling at you (at that point you really only were saying karnos was scum) and felt the karnos wagon wasn't going to last so you threw out thor with bad reasoning. You hopped on the knight wagon because it showed potential but once FA claimed, you switched to the only other scumread you put out that wasn't karnos, thor. You changed your reasoning to disagreeing with his push on karnos (reasoning that was already said by others) and never referred to your original reasoning, because you knew it didn't hold up. Also yes I think that ignoring people can be a valid strategy for scum because scum benefits from not providing too much information, and sometimes people don't follow up on questions or they're just afterthoughts. Also yes I get you responded to my question right away d2 but you never actually gave examples and it took you until post 885 to actually respond which is why I was saying you were deflecting.

[aronagrundy]

I should clarify, you said thor because he was relatively safe as a target (from the tracer wagon), yes grey asked you for your reads, but literally said "I want to lynch you" before that. Just clarification on me saying "pressure."

[Saru]

@saru: My argument is that you felt pressure to give more scumreads after grey showed up and started yelling at you (at that point you really only were saying karnos was scum) and felt the karnos wagon wasn't going to last so you threw out thor with bad reasoning. You hopped on the knight wagon because it showed potential but once FA claimed, you switched to the only other scumread you put out that wasn't karnos, thor. You changed your reasoning to disagreeing with his push on karnos (reasoning that was already said by others) and never referred to your original reasoning, because you knew it didn't hold up.

This is a lot of baseless speculation on your part about how I felt. You say the Karnos wagon wasn't going to last, but you can't prove that. I had no reason to move off of Karnos as scum. His wagon was going fine, and one person coming in (who never questioned the wagon btw) questioning me about my ISO being full of Karnos wouldn't be enough to make me stop as scum. No pressure existed, so you can stop acting like it did, thanks.

Also, I hopped off the FA wagon because he started actually doing something with the slot he replaced into. Notice that I voted for Knight for his lacking posts, which FA made up for. How scummy of me to hop off the wagon of a slot which starts doing the opposite of what I scum read it for! :O

I also did not change my reason on the Thor push. If I knew it wouldn't hold up from D1 (as you say), I would have conveniently dropped it D1 and replaced it with something else, which is not what happened. I had a two part reason for not feeling good about Thor from D1. I would have gotten rid of the "copying" argument much earlier, according to your logic.

Also yes I think that ignoring people can be a valid strategy for scum because scum benefits from not providing too much information, and sometimes people don't follow up on questions or they're just afterthoughts. Also yes I get you responded to my question right away d2 but you never actually gave examples and it took you until post 885 to actually respond which is why I was saying you were deflecting.

Except it's been established that I didn't ignore you, so you can drop that argument.

"People don't follow up on questions" is a rare occurrence, and by any measure, risky for scum to bet on.

The part about not providing examples is also silly, because you had asked me what I thought Thor was doing, and I pointed out that his tunnel on Karnos made it so that he was essentially doing nothing. What example would you have wanted at the time for such an answer...his whole ISO?

Your argument is a mish-mash of pretty much nothing. Something about Thor, something about pressure, something about deflecting. I feel like I'm going in a circle with you with the same arguments, and at this point, I'm actually thinking of ignoring you in regards to this argument because it isn't progressing us at all. Stop beating a dead horse.

[aronagrundy]

Go for it, I wasn't trying to argue with you again until you responded to a post directed at bji

[aronagrundy]

@bji: well I disagree with how you're interpreting what I was doing. What I said is why I voted knight. I agree that FA is basically confirmed town tho.

Re: the mal lynch, yeah I was aware of the risk at the time of he flipped town. Lurking gets more of a gut scum feeling from me tho so I think we'll just have to disagree on the validity of that interpretation. Either way it was Mal or saru and clearly I didn't abandon saru

[aronagrundy]

Fwiw, I'm aware that by voting mal when I did (4/7) I pushed the momentum toward mal, which makes me think that there is definitely scum in (Nero, Thor, FA). I.e. Thor or nero. Unless anyone wants to lynch saru with me I'll go over the ISOs and see who looks worse

[ironstove]

VOTE: Saru

[Foxbird]

Votecount 2.10

karnos

(1) - Thor665

Saru

(2) - aronagrundy, ironstove

Thor665

(1) - karnos

LmkGuy

(2) - Fire Assassin, Lowell

Lowell

(2) - Saru, LmkGuy

aronagrundy

(1) - bji

Not Voting

(2) - Nero Cain, PenguinPower

With

11

players eligible to vote, it’s

6

to lynch!

Day 2 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-11 12:47:28).

Mod Notes:

None!

[Thor665]

If he was rereading the thread, why didn't he notice that thor wasn't copying his argument? Something doesn't add up here.

To a degree I was copying his argument.
The problem is, if I was copying him - then he also copied me on multiple occasions, which makes the value of the scumtell flatline pretty quickly.
He doesn't really ever address this despite being asked a few times.

- ironstove is high on my list of interesting persons. I appreciate how he's tried to drive wagons repeatedly and all of them seemed well justified to me.

Could you pick any one of his wagons (he has plenty to choose from) and explain why you like the well justified logic of it?

You are literally parroting me. Please have an original, logical thought.

OH Smurf you. Don't make me tilt or I will GT.

Learn2play.

Based on analyzing post syntax, I presumed tracer was scum due to her posts feeling very fake, thor's entrance was also scummy, however he's managed to become more towny thanks to interactions with saru/aron which made me begin to doubt my reads, however I wanted to stick to my initial read and follow through on it./quote]

Also the ad hominem that nero/thor are using to combo on me, saying I can't/won't discuss logic, that my logic is flawed for scum reading them, etc... I'm making a few assumptions here in my play and there are two scenarios that are playing out i.e.

1. I'm correct in that nero/thor are a scum pair and you're bad and getting in my way

2. I'm wrong and I should adapt by pivoting my vote while trying to gather further information to find other scum and confirm or deny assumption #1.

3. That you have repeatedly avoided defending the logic of your play.

Shoe fits.

I'm kind of intrigued how Penguin just kind of vaguely questioning the logic of the wagon on me has kind of defused a clearly building force. Even from an outside observation point it's pretty clear that is not scum dismantling a bus because they have an excuse, which tends to suggest it is scum avoiding a hard wagon.
I'm not sure how to read it unless maybe Karnos is town.
If Karnos is town I think it makes Iron look significantly like scum. The problem is his babble posts this page feel kind of like town to me. Maybe I'm reading Arongundy wrong? But I don't find Bjj to particularly be spouting brilliance.
My vote stays where it is.
I need about an extra 2 players talking half sense in this thread stat.

[aronagrundy]

investigate iron/lowell, protect nero, kill mal if he doesn't replace out

Not interested in gathering any more info on the person who you previously spent most of the day voting for. Just not a consistent position.

Just wanted to respond, that post was in response to FA asking what he should do n1. By then FA had already claimed so I thought he was town. And it's not like I can ask see to investigate themselves lol

[karnos]

Thor is scum.

He isn't this bad of a player to be town. In other games, town!Thor might have put some pressure on me, but he has never blindly tunneled like this.

This is either scum!Thor or Thor ODed on drugs and lost 50 points of IQ. This isn't the usual town!Thor I have seen before.

The whole back-and-forth between you and Thor is getting to be obnoxious. Who is scum outside Thor?

Thor is scum. I don't want to lynch anyone else, because it doesn't make sense to ignore a sure-thing to go for a maybe.

Saru could be scum still, maybe they realized pushing me together was terrible and decided to switch pushes to distance, but I also think there is a fair chance he is actually town, would much prefer to lynch Thor.

Nero might be scum as well, I found his read lists to be terrible earlier in the game, haven't fully caught up so not sure if he is making more sense now or not.

If you are asking me who I want to lynch, it's Thor. If you are asking who I might compromise on a lynch for, I did that crap yesterday and we lynched town, so I'm not going to settle for a crappy lynch today.

[Fire Assassin]

Also, I hopped off the FA wagon because he started actually doing something with the slot he replaced into. Notice that I voted for Knight for his lacking posts, which FA made up for. How scummy of me to hop off the wagon of a slot which starts doing the opposite of what I scum read it for! :

Besides me claiming power role, I haven't done much.... Especially today. So...

[Fire Assassin]

VOTE: Thor