Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Thank you, Transcend.

VOTE: Rosske

[gigabyteTroubadour]

As far as I'm concerned Thor, Giga, Smith, and Luna are all exrtremely unlikely to be scum because of Karnos's basic interactions with them.
Honestly I think KTS is Town adn PC is the most likely person to be Karnos's partner because of this interaction they had.

VOTE: karnos for being the first one to post after my introduction!

How rude. I haven't done a VC recently, I hope that wasn't hammer.

Hello PC.

Just looking at it, it's so casual compared to how Karnos interacted with out people in the begining.
Not to mention it's a pretty light hearted accusation from PC and dropped soon after. And Karnos's responce wasn't even serious either.

Of course PC also has Karnos as top Town as well as Luna and Giga as top scum.
VOTE: PC
I'm aware no one is voting for him, but I don't care when he's the most likely person to be scum in my eyes.

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

Actually, I want to lynch this because the scumread of Tenshii (note that I am not scumreading him) is based entirely on the fact that he pushed a counterwagon to Karnos. But we don't know the alignment of the counterwagonnee, so this should be our first lynch, no questions asked.

Rosske is not bad for the next lynch though, smith had a good post in his ISO that was intended for KTS but it also applies to Rosske. I'll quote it in a sec.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VC Day 1 - 3

karnos L-3 - Io, Thor665, gigabyte
Thor665 L-3 - Killthestory, Transcend, Rosske
Io L-5 - karnos

(expired on 2016-07-29 16:30:00)

Fun question: why was scum!karnos not on the Thor counter wagon here? The lazy answer is Thor is his buddy. The more plausible answer is one of:

1) karnos buddy already on Thor wagon, dont want to push together
2) karnos didn't want to active push the Thor mislynch wagon, wanted to park his vote elsewhere while continuing his back and forth

^ this also can apply to Rosske, it was meant for KTS

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no.

damn it you're right

VOTE: Rosske

please just read his iso and tell me it doesn't reek like scum.

this is the coasting wolf we've been looking for all game.

(also since tojam is not modding any more is the no cursing rule still in effect...?)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

The "just gut" push on Thor was pretty bad too tbqh, it's literally a textbook example of a chainsaw (for a flipped scum) and the reasoning behind it is vague and thus easy to fake.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i agree, look at my vote

he's active lurking like heck, the fact he jumped onto KTS looks terrible after his townflip

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no gigabyte you got it wrong

i'm the one actively lurking

that's not what active lurking is though....

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Mod, I'm going to be V/LA for the next two days. Thank you!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

l-1 if i'm counting correctly
sorry transcend, rosske's tomorrow if he flips green at the very least

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i've nothing to say

we should wait for transcendentalism and rosske though, I want Rosske to answer Thor's questions about Transcend and Transcend to give thoughts about PC

[gigabyteTroubadour]

did i just lolhammer

[gigabyteTroubadour]

shit i did

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm laughing but also really ashamed of myself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah i just lost a game where i fosed someone that was pseudo clear and i put them in autoloss due to their claim.

any W is a W!

that was a good game to watch but that LYLO was unacceptable, why implosion why??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

How is Transcend active lurking or manipulating?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Sorry, difficulties in getting internet access. I'll support Tenshii and Rosske lynches mostly, but I want to know what Luna has to say?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

will post soon, used up all my phone battery for another game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Rosske
I feel better about the case against him than Tenshii still, but I'll happily vote either.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

That's... true. I suppose.

What do you think of Tenshii?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no that's fine
i feel dumb for thinking we can powerlynch everyone outside of the townbloc we "made", nothing wrong with some discussion

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tenshii benefits the most from Io > Thor imo, killing Thor would have been too high info and draw attention to him.

hmm

VOTE: Tenshii

[gigabyteTroubadour]

IDK MAN

LET'S WAIT FOR THE LUNA REPLACEMENT

why does rosske pick thor over io btw, because Thor is busy with Tenshii?? hmm

UNVOTE:

the nk works for anyone really -___-

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Rosske, thoughts on Tenshii?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I am still hard-neutral on Rosske/Tenshii. Rosske responding doesn't really read scum to me, but I hated his vote on KTS. Still, I feel like if he were scum he'd A: give up, or B: push harder to be on the townbloc because he's in an auto-lose situation....

Tenshii has bad associatives, Rosske is oppurtunistic, but only one (or even neither!!) can be scum.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

would scum!rosske push for PC after KTS

[gigabyteTroubadour]

would scum!rosske push for PC after KTS

my answer is yes.

rosske did not tho?? so
case disproven unless i forgot this game entirely lmao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

nvm <3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

still he was late on the wagon but JUMPED onto kts... so it's not =

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I didn't push PC at all, and I only voted him long after he was already hammered. It was irrelevant.

LEMMING LEMMING LEMMING

VOTE: PhantomColbalt


Oops did I lynch?

I think not yet.

L-1 maybe?

i thought this was from yesterday but it was from the day before.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also, is the only reason Transcend is being townread because of the reaction to the KTS post? Because in that spot, mafia KNOWS for a fact that KTS is town, so mafia should be able to fake a reaction relatively well.

I personally would expect scum!Transcend to make less out-there pushes (Luna's slot being the big example) and not-as-blatantly defend Krankies, but I might be mistaken... He's been about as much of a townread as you are during D1.

also i'm starting to think distant better describes my involvement in this game... ha... seriously though after D1 i can't make heads or tails of what's going on here, almost every lynch looks as viable as the other and I

hate

being neutral despite the fact i feel like i put myself in that position a lot

i should read some scumgames of transcend's if i have the time ever. also would like to hear wingback's thoughts on the game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Both were similarly townread, but Thor has experience behind him so he's a more threatening player.

I actually think Io was a better NK — Scum!Tenshii doesn't want the attention from killing the person who scumreads him most, and everyone else would probablt want Thor to push for a Tenshii ML and then NK Thor afterwards.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

probably*

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm still deciding between Rosske and Tenshii, but the place where I'm posting more frequently interests me more sadly :C

I like your most recent post and I feel like we're on the same page. I pretty much am townreading everyone but Rosske, but Thor's arguments against Tenshii are making me iffy about jumping back to Rosske's wagon.

I really have nothing else to add, sorry.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

just had a thought

transcend, weren't you townreading kcdaspot? why was mhsmith different?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Rosske, why do you think Io was killed?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

The above logic depends on Thor being town as well. Scum Thor could be sheeping a supposed town, in which case that would make it much less likely I am scum.

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

i'm doing a full game reread too and everytime i see this post i just cringe

i haven't found anything too great but this is killing me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Thanks for the meta, I'll give them a quick read.

I still think I'd rather meta Transcend too, his pushes have all been really strange (the two on our slots to be specific) and I've been using that as reasons to townread him but... maybe he's the kind of player who makes bizarre pushes as scum to look town? I don't know.

The Tenshii/Thor LYLO is my biggest fear this game and one of the reasons I considered lynching one of them, but I don't want to make a policy lynch when we have several brains to find scum.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Rosske

I want to go with my original plan here.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend and i have been on rosske since D2

i just kept getting convinced to get off of him, I'm starting to think my original viewpoint on everything was correct

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Two people have straight up claimed that this game does not match meta analysis of his scum v. town play.
You don't wanna weigh in on that and would rather vote the slot?

I don't think you can meta a player with only 140 posts on this site in all honesty.

I don't get that at all - the only scummy thing I can really see there is maybe him not voting Karnos over it.
Looking at his completed scum game he

explained himself a lot more

, and

stuck to a single position

, and

didn't vote very quickly

.
Looking at other postings in games that may or may not exist I don't see that as a similar vibe from games he may or may not have had a scum role in.

It's not a large sample size, but that paired with a read based on a presumption isn't selling me on the case.

From his 24 posts in his one completed scum game, it's kind of an exception... The stuff I bolded all seems to come from someone who replaced late into a game, which is exactly what Rosske did in Newbie 1720. Catch-up posts are easily faked (I was duped by a very convincing one in my newbie...), and Rosske's longer posts look like that's what he's doing.

I obviously cannot discuss what he may or may not have been in... but I will say that I disagree but I may be missing nuances because of my lack of experience. Can't elaborate further.

So? I'm just going to read his alignment like I have been for everyone else (besides Phantom), and I think he's the scummiest slot alive. Obviously my reads aren't going to be perfect, but my short list is pretty much down to {Rosske, Tenshii}.

I'll respond to Wingback's question now.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey actually i was writing up a post explaining how i constantly wanted to vote rosske throughout the game but kept persuading myself to vote for a townie instead (KTS, Phantom)... but er

VOTE: Luna Fox

tenshii can you explain this vote

VOTE: Tenshii

[gigabyteTroubadour]

seriously that's some hardcore dodgeballing there

i don't think this vote on luna was ever explained

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh nvm, 1019 exists but it's an awful explanation sorry tenshii </3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

short list is atm:

Tenshii > Rosske > hope i get nightkilled

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend

u spent the entire game trying to get an obvtown slot lynched... don't talk to me about bad....

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also mhsmith's posts make me feel better about my tenshii vote :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbf rosske has misrepped events in the game twice that i'm not sure what to think of it

It's usually a town thing to do that, right? But at the same time, he completely misrepresented Transcend to justify his push on him.

I'm really sorry I'm being kind of lazy this game, the other game I'm in is pretty much taking up all of my mental energy (in a positive way)! Not really sure if I'm crazy enough about what's going on here to really delve into it hard afterwards but I'm not planning on stretching myself out anymore.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

nah i feel you it's just

i've never felt so clueless about a mafia game... in face-to-face games i'm usually the one pulling the game's weight as either alignment, and even in my newbie where i never once voted scum i thought i knew what i was doing. here i was so sure about krankles, but now that he's gone it just feels like there isn't even scum hiding among us.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

we're getting daily votecounts!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend mafia game; mini 1796

if anyone is paranoid of transcend btw, that's there ^

it's probably tenshii or rosske but that's there ^

[gigabyteTroubadour]

dun dun dun

so far scum!transcend's reads feel pretty safe/normal but i'm still early in the game

no crazy moon logic there

[gigabyteTroubadour]

scum!Transcend is very aggressive about defending his townreads, notably. i'm at page 17 atm, still early game but i'm trucking through.

look at this post from that game, it's like he knew shotty was town all along... idk maybe it's because i know who scum are but still, i haven't seen him put this much argumentative fire into defending tenshii. most of his focus is on pushing Rosske.

the point is though i don't really think tenshii is shotty here.... that might change as i read but still

also the reason i'm doing this is to mostly reaffirm that the townbloc isn't shit... because i don't see the issue of powertownlynching Rosske/Tenshii/someone else if we can be sure that {Thor, Wingback, Giga, and one of transcend/mhsmith} are entirely town... the original townbloc had transcend in it but mhsmith has brought more to the game at least (luv u transcend :C </3) so i don't know. i have to see how mhsmith plays as scum later

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm not very good at meta-ing people by reading their games if that's not clear. There isn't that much of a translation from face-to-face mafia to forum mafia, the closest thing there is to it is personally knowing the other players, which you can't do by reading about them.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Well, yeah, you've said that, but the thing is I'm noticing a difference between how you're defending Tenshii vs. Shotty. You've pretty much just said that Tenshii is a tonal townread and you've focused more on pushing Rosske. You seemed almost annoyed that Shotty was being scumread and there was a lot more fire to how you were defending him than Tenshii.

Everyone can be meta'd imo but meta'ing sucks anyway

oh fuck i forgot about that game i should read it too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

well that just makes it weirder

you're defending a nullread?? why... if someone is null to you then there's not much of a reason to defend them that hard... just from that post i had assumed he was a townread of yours, it really seemed like you

knew

he was town...

i've shifted gears to that newbie, i've only skimmed through sonia's ISO and bits of the Gyrlander vs Performer/Replacement wagons.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I disagree - I would perhaps agree with, you can't meta them with the same accuracy of someone with a larger pile of evidence to draw from.
But he does have two completed games now (I guess, when I did it I drew from a non-complete albeit Rosske's part was complete).
One looks like this game.
One does not look anything like this game.

Isn't that telling?

Not really, like I said I think that newbie game was a special circumstance. Making longer posts, waiting to vote, and not really changing stances that quickly seem like things one would do if they replaced into a game and are catching up. Rosske has been here from the beginning, there's not much of a need for that. I would probably want a completed scum game from start to finish to discuss

When I have a clearer head I might try to have a better stance on this, but for now I'm still OK with lynching Tenshii but I'm not confident about it. Besides Karnos, I'm feeling much better about my townreads this game than I do my scumreads.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i mean it makes sense you don't have multiple scumreads, there's only one mafioso left

Can you walk me through your scumread of me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

also why do you think Io was killed?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I've been thinking, Transcend is probably the one who gains the least from killing Io over Thor.

Killing Io while scum isn't Thor or Tenshii implies that Tenshii is being set up for a mislynch. But Transcend has been doing everything to keep Tenshii alive and is townreading him. I think that scum!Transcend would be trying to buddy Tenshii and lower his risk of dying by killing Thor.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I like reading them. Waiting for computer access to be useful but they are nice reads

[gigabyteTroubadour]

There isn't really much of a meta to go by. I refuse to use ongoing games for meta by principle, I should add.

Transcend scum seems highly unlikely to me, but at this point you could probably write a wallcase about how i'm scum and i might believe it :/

i hate being sheepy but no compter access means no cases

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Going through Gigabyte's ISO and I really don't like their play post-Karnos flip. My initial townread came from how they treated Karnos and the interactions not looking like scum-scum. Examples are "no one's quickhammering you, Karnos, I'll fight them if they try" seems odd coming from a partner. Also, thought the reaction to KTS scumclaiming was town-looking on the surface.

The most troublesome thing for me is that while Karnos was alive, Gigabyte was tunneling him, but after he flipped, it's a lot of back and forth uncertainty. There's been a marked playstyle changed before and after. That's something I find indicative of scum because at one point they had a buddy to bus but after, it's just about looking town and not blowing your load pushing for a mislynch too early.

For reasons I'm not comfortable discussing online, it's not really that much of a scumtell for me. Compare my D1 and D2+3 play in my newbie to what's going on here. Even though there was a town lynch instead of a scum lynch D1, I'm kind of going through the same thing as I did there

Gigabyte's push on KTS solely to do something that Transcend wasn't reads fake.

It was obviously a joke??

Gigabyte doesn't strike me as whimsical

lmao r u sure.... i'm FULL of WHIMSY

and if you are interpreting their action seriously, declining to vote someone just because Transcend is voting them is pretty horrible reasoning.

...which is why it's a joke

Their switch around on Phantom after being so certain that he's town is another point of concern, as is their vote on Rosske while ignoring meta when most of their early reads are meta-based.

most of my early reads on who? i only remember getting a meta read from phantom

Clearly gigabyte isn't against meta.

I only use it on hard-to-read players

I see the argument for Rosske only has one town and scum game but Gigabyte has gotten a townread on Phantom presumably based on one other game.

don't presume. you only need to read the playerlists of phantom's games to know he gets lynched D1 a lot. that tells me he's lynchbait, and i won't lynch lynchbait unless there's a convincing case, which Io brought out

I've been thinkng about this game over and over and no one's really clicking as scum. That could be because I've been mostly ignoring the actual scum.

well we have the same problem. hence my wishy-washiness

Gigabyte's posting fading out is somewhat scum-indicative too as is the suggestion to make a townbloc including themselves and lynching outside of it.

First, the townbloc was Tenshii's idea. i liked it because i felt that i had better townreads this game, if you can townhunt well you can PoE. and me posting much less just means i'm not as interested in playing this game.

I much prefer mhsmith's proposal of just using every day to scumhunt and re-assessing who needs to be lynched. It's the pro-town strategy, and while I don't think it makes him town to suggest it, it's still the way to go.

If Gigabyte is such a good scumhunter that they could catch Karnos off of RQS, where's the same scumhunting drive to catch his partner?

i lost interest in the game, me posting elsewhere shows that... you're reading way too far into me.

The townbloc idea is at odds for someone that caught scum so early and reeks of just hammering down a few mislynches so that the game doesn't go on forever and the drive to post fake-analysis drops down. Gigabyte continuing to post elsewhere but not here also fits into that mold.

no. i aboslutely love playing scum (i play mafia to be mafia tbqh) and i'm not the kind of person who coasts at this point. i know self-meta is useless but in my face-to-face games i'm generally more pushy and assertive as scum, and I love bsing people so i do it a lot. i don't know if i'm the same way in forums but there's a huge disconnect between my actual personality/playstyle and how you're reading me it seems

in a nutshell i think you're reading too far into things when i'm just really disinterested in this game. now that i have a few seconds of free time i'm going to see if i can weigh in on Tenshii vs. Rosske but i think this is a bit ridiculous (but i do deserve it)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

responses are in bold btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't know if it's the lynch i want any more though

i think i've turned to the dark side.... sorry transcendentalism

[gigabyteTroubadour]

1. Did I not say that I liked Luna's case against KTS? His quickhammer could have had a strategic purpose in silencing discussion, I swear I've said this but I don't ISO myself and I've only started to re-read the game now. I was going back and forth on it because of Rosske's "townslip" and because I townread KTS most of D1.

2. Well, yes, but reads can change.

3. I also read his newbie where he played under the name arak-and-shrug and he wasn't lynched D1. He was also key to winning that game, since he was the town jailkeeper and they lynched the mafia roleblocker D1 (Charloux, who is the lynchbaitiest lynchbait). One game is also not enough to have an established meta where you can call a player "lynchbaity", Phantom has been on the site much longer and I feel better putting a label on him like that.

4. No, suspecting me alone is not ridiculous, but saying I'm scummy because I'm posting elsewhere and posting less than before just shows I'm not interested in the game as much.

idk transcend my vote's on tenshii right now

[gigabyteTroubadour]

probably

Tenshii/Rosske > Rosske/Tenshii > Mhsmith

i have pretty solid townreads on everyone else

[gigabyteTroubadour]

rereading the game now, if i have any thoughts i'll say something

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I mean, I agree with the point that mhsmith's vote was the most likely to be a bussing vote, but I felt he naturally went into it. By your readslist, I'd want to push for Rosske.

I should mention that from rereading, I really dislike Tenshii's basises for his scumreads, but not in a "he's scum" way. They seem to be things new players believe are scummy, whether scum or town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also giga: does the fact that two ducks (me and wing) that you wouldn't shoot at all game town read tenshii change your mind?

Not particularly, no. Townies can and do read people wrong.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

awww, Rosske

digging through mhsmith's iso because i swear there's something i wanted to comment on that i forgot about

[gigabyteTroubadour]

No offense but please lynch the slot lol don't replace. This is probably a tactical replace out.

???? dude that's low

but yes i would be willing to compromise on smith, it might not even be a compromise if i remember whatever it is that is irking me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Last one probably just Luna or kts with the strategic hop onto the wagon (wolves usually can't resist bussing).

VOTE: killthestory

i don't think this is the thing that's been irking me but mhsmith can you walk me through what made you feel better about Luna?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wrt luna, my recollection was her postings and engagement improved. For instance her early d2 rosske stuff looked natural and like she was actively working to clear townies, which in that spot isn't really how I'd expect a wolf to act. I can probably re-read and find more specific stuff if you're really curious about my read of her in particular.

haven't caught up fully (yes i know it's a page but it looks interesting)

But isn't that Luna's entire playstyle (clearing townies)? She never pushes scumreads (well, except KTS), she finds townreads and we've seen her do such in this game. Her finding more reasons to townread Rosske seems like a completely reasonable thing for her to do regardless of her alignment, at least in my opinion.

I'll see what you've written now and follow-up if I feel necessary.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Considering it's somewhat likely that someone bussed given how Karnos was the sole wagon that was gaining steam with no counterwagons

Hmmm, I actually want to talk about this more because I disagree.

D1, the Thor and Io wagons were both at about the same strength as the karnos wagon until Luna voted for Karnos. Sure, they never reached the tipping point, but I think the fact that there were multiple counterwagons with voter support (not really logical support but w/e) points to the fact that the other mafioso was pushing at least one of them. KTS quickhammering just accelerated the entire lynch process and stopped mafia from being able to deflect the karnos wagon.

Which is why I'd rather vote Tenshii or Rosske's slot before I even consider mhsmith.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I might do a VCA of my own in the future.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hi mariaf

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Mod, why is mhsmith voting for himself by that i mean i believe wingback is voting for him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I've only read a little but right now I'm loving a transcend lynch and disliking a Giga lynch

if it's just bc transcend is annoying then i'm all for it, but we don't really have mislynches to waste

then again you probably know transcend better than anyone here so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the mod might disappear around deadline and give us extra time

D1 is really all that's worth reading because we got scum then tbqh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

1.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my TR on giga is way higher and if they're scum prob just gonna go crawl into a ditch and cry

-________________-

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga how hard do I have to appeal to you to get tr because i'm gonna do it

you don't really have to appeal

just give me a convincing argument that it's tenshii or someone else and we're good

It's believable that your slot is town but it's more likely scum to me because I have pretty good reasons to townread everyone else.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so who are we lynching today

maria where u at in terms of reads

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so who are we lynching today

maria where u at in terms of reads

u

VOTE: gigabytetroubadouba

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey transcendentalism

are you still strongly townreading tenshii? what do you think about his read progression?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i wasn't asking you if you wanted him lynched

his votes have just been very weird to me and i'm not sure what to make of them. and in this game since i have townreads and no scumreads, weird and no idea what to make of it = scum maybe

after Phantom got lynched and flipped town it feels like Tenshii just kinda shut down and i'm not sure if that's a townie thing or what

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh that's what i thought you were asking

rosske's votes with bad explanation > tenshii's weird votes with explanation that is bad but likely to come from newbtown

i mean

i guess?

i'm really not sure how the hell we're going to progress through this game, i can't figure out how to move along

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I don't want to lynch MariaF yet though, i want her to catch up and give us another perspective

[gigabyteTroubadour]

(Did one with Giga by mistake though)

well it won't work this time, i know you better as a player

you'll get townread enough for me to fight transcend and not lynch you just if you just give a coherent readlist with like 1-3 lynch candidates at this point

i think a new vca would be more useful after the next two flips, so i'm postponing that since mhsmith already filled in one.

i think i like my vote on tenshii best still and that's probably the read i want to hear the most on

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I (might) listen. Do you agree that your predecessor was extremely scummy?

loaded question

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Don't know what a loaded question is

the way you phrased it seemed like you want mariaf to have to defend herself from the "fact" that rosske was scummy. there's a presumption in the question that gives it an icky bias.

which i

do

personally agree with (that rosske was scummy), but it was just a very biased question

But really i just posted that to tease you, I still think you're town. Just icky town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Anyways gigabyte: would you like to make a deal with the devil with me being the devil?

elaborate, i don't accept deals without listening to them

[gigabyteTroubadour]

there's not a lot to go on but a few key things about rosske:

• 1. Voted Thor D1 because of gut, which was one of many counterwagons to scum and could be a chainsaw vote (Thor lead a lot of the push on Kranoid)
  
  2. Awkward D2 vote on KTS that essentially repeated what other people said with nothing to add. Looked somewhat oppurtunistic to me at least.

There's probably more I'm forgetting but while phoneposting this is what I recall. This kind of stuff can definitely come from town, but with more townier players alive and some possible framework of scum motivation, it's worth some scrutiny.

I still prefer Tenshii btw

PEdit: uh... i want to think about this, i kind of like smith for town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

short list is atm:

Tenshii > Rosske > hope i get nightkilled

the "hope i get nightkilled" sentiment comes from the fact that if smith is scum (if it's not tenshii or maria he'd be my first choice), i have -1 clues what's going on

atm i have 0 clue what's going on, not super interested in going into my desperation lynch choice unless i see something really compelling

[gigabyteTroubadour]

idk i'll think about it i said

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbh i don't really scumread anyone (besides krinkles) this game, i'm really starting to think townhunting is more my style

i just see rosske and tenshii as... less town than everyone else?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

W i f o m

Oh shush you know I hate doing wifom scum play

I'm not kidding where I'd openly self vote if the time came to it.

would not recommend this

also congrats on hitting mafia scum

PEdit: yup

[gigabyteTroubadour]

there are like 4 other players

i can see mhsmith and maria possibly voting tenshii
i can see mhsmith, wingback, and maybe even tenshii possibly voting maria
if you vote smith and it's 1 hour until the deadline, then i can see myself possibly voting smith

so really i want to see where maria fits into this game before deciding how i want to swing this day

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if you're asking me to be firm in a decision i make... that's not happening ever

and... not really... you townread karnks too and there was a running gag of me doing everything you don't... i am OK with going with my opinion here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

FYI wing has been site banned. Not sure what replace status is.

yeah we totally should get a day or two of extension time...

In the meantime, I'm worried town isn't going to come to a consensus and delaying the deadline just makes that worry feel worse. Where do you think you'll be voting today, mhsmith?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

stop being yourself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if i ignore rosske, i'm completely null on maria, which is why i keep asking for a catch-up post

but i have zero experience with maria *cough*

looks like we're in the same place in terms of reads at least

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tomorrow is dl though

tojam could we get a 1 or 2 day extension once wingback is replaced?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I am building the fence.

I'll help you paint it if you tell me what you think of Rosske/MariaF's slot!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I am building the fence.

I'll help you paint it if you tell me what you think of Rosske/MariaF's slot!

i mean

if it's not tenshii

then i have to start fence sitting... it's probably tenshii but we need MariaF's slot to vote him if we want him lynched (our wagon would have to be you, me, mhsmith, and Maria)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Transcend . . . also indicated willingness to deadline lynch to avoid no lynch.

hey transcend you better actually follow through here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

3 people are not the majority of the game transcendentalism

maria has not given input yet and rosske never expressed interest

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel bad lynching Maria without a catchup post but

[gigabyteTroubadour]

true

VOTE: MariaF

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yes that's l-1
sorry

[gigabyteTroubadour]

what are your thoughts on tenshii?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Tenshii

Why do you dislike him?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Final thing to Giga and Transcend you both know how good I am at scum and I could get myself out of this lynch as scum if I wanted to do you really think I'd be almost giving up at this point as mafia?

If you think the answer is yes I have nothing to say.

i mean

i can't really say anything

but possibly

All right, that's good enough for me today. will hope tenshii comes at deadline

[gigabyteTroubadour]

L-1 again btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tenshii why are you planning on hammering yourself

like you can easily swing this onto maria

[gigabyteTroubadour]

all right

i can hammer maria but i'd like to talk. how much time do we have because i'm not 100% free at the second

[gigabyteTroubadour]

uh ok
if you're town though i don't see the benefit of self-hammering

[gigabyteTroubadour]

im voting tenshii

[gigabyteTroubadour]

[gigabyteTroubadour]

self-hammering as town has to be the worst

[gigabyteTroubadour]

but vca is going to be less useful because it's possible for scum to go on your wagon idk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if tenshii isn't scum though, it'll be hard to catch mhsmith scum and feel right about it since i feel like we didn't use our lynches right idk

this could hurt transcend and me (who i am both sure are town but i don't think the other townies are entirely convinced, based on wing's reads)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend you fulfilled one requirement of being good town, and that's being easy to find

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend you fulfilled one requirement of being good town, and that's being easy to find

Huh

I'm saying you were obviously town. A "good townie" wants good reads and to not get lynched. Being townread is one way of doing that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend stop

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm probably going to in for another newbie if you haven't used all of your newbie /ins as Sonia (alts can't /in as newbies iirc)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

idk how hard it is to be sure you're queued with a specific person tho (yes i know you are claire)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I see your point but I already /inned for a mini theme and I don't like to overgame myself. Since I replaced in here and /inned for another open because I was already in a newbie, I've been craving matrix6 all over again

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga you should join EM and kek around in a few games with me and Maria.

i made an account like way back when because my boyfriend wanted me to play but i just never really tried it /shrug. I didn't like chatroom mafia all that much because i just felt overwhelmed by the pacing and the people there had bad taste in set-ups... so i'm not sure if i will like it. worth a shot i guess.

also @thor... are my thoughts on theory wrong...? i thought it was important for... townies to want to be obvious town so that people can identify with them and work with them... i can understand why a more experienced player may want to straddle closer to null and not get nightkilled, but i'm a newbie so what do i know

[gigabyteTroubadour]

nah he said he only plays with people he knows, which makes sense... mafia can get kinda ugly when the wrong personalities mesh

[gigabyteTroubadour]

matching avatars

[gigabyteTroubadour]

on thor's 's, i get the one about vca because i phrased what i wanted to say wrong so let me clarify

self-hammering as town makes vca much less helpful because you get a lot of information based on who hammers, or, how the lynch is deflected and who moves... Maria essentially cut the day short (with good intentions, i can at least see her point though i disagree). it's possible that scum could have hammered her (although probably not since my scumreads were already voting her and i would like to think my reads can at least somewhat be accurate), it's also possible that the lynch is swung to tenshii or even mhsmith (that would have been a terrible lynch btw, I would hate a Transcend/Tenshii/Maria/Me wagon a lot)

/shrug

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Sorry for spamming, but while I'm at it:

Mhsmith, why Maria before Tenshii? Because i felt like we were in the same place on them but i leaned closer to tenshii as the second scum.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hm, i see your point and i was considering it personally... her reasoning to me still felt pro-town and honest, just disagreeable, and i thought it would be better as a discussion topic post-mislynch or just as a reason to not lynch her when she just replaced in... /shrug

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Looking at Kdcaspot's posts, he calls karnos scum-aligned while not voting him or doing anything, then spends the entire time trying to lynch Killthestory...

Well, he suggested that KTS/Karnos were a scumteam together. It's possible we're looking at a coincidence here (a town-aligned player voting for the scummier member of their "scumteam"), or he just didn't like the wagon composition at the time (he had me as a scumlean). That's not to say a scum-aligned kcdaspot couldn't have acted the way he did, it's just not as strong reasoning as I would hope.

Walk me through scum!Transcend?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't get how thor could possibly be scum here...

walk me through that... i would also like to know why iraon suspects you.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I think NKA actually clears Tenshii and puts the suspicion around Mhsmith and Transcend. I'm leaning closer to Mhsmith, but I won't vote yet since that'll put him at L-1.

scum!Transcend can't push Tenshii on his own. He needs Me, Thor, and Mhsmith to get him lynched. Tenshii is scum!Transcend's easiest push too, because there isn't much suspicion around Thor and me, and if he wanted Mhsmith lynched he'd kill off Thor instead of Ira. This means that Ira and Io were pretty much status quo kills and we probably

shouldn't

stick to the status quo if that's true. Io didn't really show any interest in wagons besides Phantom's, and Ira wanted the same lynch as Transcend.

I think scum!Transcend is less likely because of this, because it's harder to indirectly push a wagon. It is scum!Transcend's safest bet, however.

scum!Thor is obvious, he really doesn't have any other options in kills.

I don't think scum!Tenshii makes this kill. It's practically suicide for him if he's scum at this point because Mhsmith, Thor, and I are most likely coming into this day voting for him. Not killing Thor would make sense for the first kill, but the second?

scum!Mhsmith wants to get rid of the person who suspects him the most, that's obvious too. My only question, which I will direct to

Transcend

, is why would Mhsmith kill Io?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i can't really nka myself so if anyone wants to do that by all means

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Giga - why do you see mhsmith as more likely than Transcend for final scum?

Something about Transcend's "screw what everyone else wants, I'm doing me!" attitude and his strange choice in pushes in the early game just ping me as very town. It probably wouldn't hurt, though, to look into Transcend's scumgames again because that could just be more of a personality thing.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

O w8 yea, @Giga Does your read on me change just because of yesternight's nka

Kind of? I don't really know you as a player but I feel like not killing Thor shot scum!you in the foot. Iraon feels like a status quo kill because the momentum seems to be swinging back to you which is why I'm not completely sure if I'm going to vote you today.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I kind of want Transcend and Tenshii to tell me their reads on each other and maybe give a little reasoning with it just one more time.

I know it's easy to dig through ISOs and see it there, but I just want to hear them both one more time. For posterity.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm not gonna harass you for thinking my actions were more scummy than his, because in hindsight they were.

why do you think you are scummy...? and scummier than tenshii at that?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

"well he protected karnos all day he's conf town"

is a less likely statement for someone to say than

"well he protected karnos all day he might be the other wolf"

i don't think anyone is townier than tenshii btw

this feels contradictory... but not in a scum way

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'd be really surprised if out of the people who didn't vote Karnops who are still alive today, Transcend was the last wolf. Taking a look at Mhsmith's vca again, Transcend vote hopping this much doesn't seem like strategically pushing whatever counterwagon works. The only way I can see it benefiting him as scum is for "wifom" factor ("Why, as scum, would I want to draw this much attention to myself?"). Otherwise, he pretty much gave up the chance to save his partner and i guess planned on going for a solo win.

Tenshii btw plays EM, we actually ran into each other a few times the other day (i don't play it normally but some people i pretend i don't associate with bugged me into playing), so that and his old account I guess is his experience.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this just in: gigabytetroubadour and i just played one (1) game of epicmafia dot com and i dragged his ass to a town W.

"im a she/they u cur" - Kraska77, probably

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Honestly I'm having a difficult time coming up with reasons for anyone else being the last wolf. I just want a back-up plan.

Assuming mhsmith is a mislynch... Who kills Thor before LYLO and who kills me? Does anyone kill {Tenshii, Transcend} at all?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tenshii DID NOT EVER tell anyone to vote his way.

Lol I meant to say townread my bad. Idk why but I thought I remember you townreading him. And I for sure remember giga unvoting KTS due to "towny vibes"

PC voting without substance = KC reading without substance

But ayy lmao let's get this choo choo train goingggggg

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

< : /

Anyway, I still think that Tenshii is more likely to be town than mhsmith because I don't see why Tenshii

doesn't

shoot Thor at this point when he can easily push the ML onto mhsmith and get into a LYLO with Transcend+Iraon.

Mhsmith isn't that scummy though, which is why I really don't feel good about any plan.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

W i f o m

Oh shush you know I hate doing wifom scum play

I'm not kidding where I'd openly self vote if the time came to it.

^ there's also voting for Maria when she openly said she would self-hammer if needed, picking her over Tenshii was pretty strange to me and I didn't care for his reasoning.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey look i found dueling town wagons, there's always info to get from these

Pseudo VC as of this post

Luna Fox

L-3 -

Killthestory

, Transcend,

PhantomCobalt

Killthestory

L-1 -

Rosske

, gigabyte, mhsmith0,

Luna Fox

, Tenshii

Not Voting - Thor,

Io

(with no assumptions)

(assuming Thor and I are town)

Pseudo VC as of this post

Luna Fox

L-3 -

Killthestory

, Transcend,

PhantomCobalt

Killthestory

L-1 -

Rosske

,

gigabyte

, mhsmith0,

Luna Fox

, Tenshii

Not Voting -

Thor

,

Io

I'm not sure how useful mhsmith's placement is on this wagon since mhsmith and Luna really could have voted in any order. Being the tipping point in a town wagon isn't a good sign for mhsmith but it's clear he was voting for KTS with Luna anyway.

Tenshii is the scummiest vote on here, I think. I think Luna had enough towncred for her wagon to not get past its tipping point. Putting her on L-2 would have been a waste because I don't think anyone else would have voted for her. That kind of implies he knew that they were both town, right...? I will wait for Tenshii's response to Transcend's questions before saying anything else but this is kind of interesting.

the NKs and overall flow of the game seems to point to Mhsmith, but Tenshii is still scummy to me.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the NKs and overall flow of the game seem to point to Mhsmith*

EBWOP

[gigabyteTroubadour]

But Rosske is confirmed town and we're looking at unconfirmed town

[gigabyteTroubadour]

IO THE BLANKING LEGEND COMING THROUGH

VOTE: Phantom

honestly i have a hard time trying to understand why Tenshii is so sheepy this game

why did he have to wait for Io to push a counterwagon? He really has to explain his D2 votes because I'm back to scumreading him over mhsmith after all I've said

[gigabyteTroubadour]

you just gave him his answer you dingledonger

[gigabyteTroubadour]

nice misrep transcend

(mhsmith can still be scum but it's fun to make fun of transcend )

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the NKs and overall flow of the game seem to point to Mhsmith*

EBWOP

Talk about how for each? I don't see how shooting io particularly points to me. I suppose you can make a case for the Ira shot being me, but even there it's weak. Seems likelier that there was an intentional decision not to kill giga last night, either because it's giga (which I doubt) or it was designed to present an easy "kill motive" case against me.

Wrt game flow, I don't get what you mean. Clarify?

If my reads have any merit (basically Thor as hard town, Transcend as a townlean), then the last mafia is either you or Tenshii. How scummy I think each of you are is irrelevant because I'm more confident in my townreads here.

For NKs, it's not so much that it has to be you as it is Tenshii is basically committing suicide with his nightkills if he's scum. If people ignored the nightkill and didn't change their reads, sparing Iraon was pretty much scum!Tenshii's only chance of swinging the ML onto you because he and Transcend would vote for you, and I probably would waffle between you and him. Tenshii pretty much has to kill Thor here.

Maybe

he kills me for surprise factor, but killing Iraon suggests he's giving up or he's not scum.

By "gameflow", I mean that it seems that you have control over what has been happening. At least yesterday, you voting for Maria pretty much locked her as the day's lynch. You also pushed KTS strongly D2. And D1, your vote for Karnos pretty much ensured he got lynched. It's not really strong reasoning and I don't think I'm explaining this correctly, but the way the game has been moving, I can't help but feel like we're expected to lynch Tenshii, which would ultimately benefit you as scum (or town, I guess? survival shouldn't be a goal).

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wait today is D5

i forgot d3 even happened....

[gigabyteTroubadour]

d3 was when i lolhammered

interesting that mhsmith wasn't on the wagon but had Phantom as a top scumread. not sure if scum interesting or interesting interesting.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wrt game control, I'm not really sure what you mean. My voting Maria assuredly did not lock her in as the lynch

She openly stated she would self-hammer though, voting her over Tenshii seems kind of opportunistic. This is the only point I strongly disagree with, I'm still mulling everything else over.

Transcend, who would you most likely vote for in a Iraon/Tenshii LYLO if it came down to that? I realize this question loses its effectiveness since Iraon is flipped town but still...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tenshii.

Would've reported Luna for stategic sub out if she flipped wolf.

OK, so I guess my thought of Tenshii wanting a Transcend/Iraon LYLO was completely untrue

i kind of want to vote tenshii at this point but we haven't heard from him.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah 807 was not that terrible of a vote...

Wrt to the self-hammer declaration, it's pretty much a free mislynch for a scum!mhsmith because it doesn't really put too much attention onto you voting Maria over Tenshii, and it denies town from getting information from who decides to hammer (or if Tenshii gets hammered instead). Maybe not opportunistic, but I think it'd be the smarter move for scum to do.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

What happened to him being in the top tier on your reads with me >:(

is this for me?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tenshii being high in my earlier readlists was because of the fact that A: scumreading him would be due to pre-flip associations D1, B: I thought his posts about the dodgeball gag were kind of townie, especially with scummier people alive, and C: I have townread every single slot in this game except for Karnos's at some point.

Out of everyone alive, I think Tenshii is the most obviously scummy, but it's still plausible he's not scum.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Nope! Tenshii hasn't done anything to make me think he's town past D2, and looking back his D2 was still pretty scummy.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why did you make a "go with the flow" vote on PC there if KTS was your stronger read? And why would you say KTS and you "bonded over twilight" (and what did that mean exactly anyway), if you'd been hanging on his lynch and pushing there for quite a while previously?

The simple answer to this is, "I wasn't sure of myself because I didn't want to trust my guttier reads that went against the grain." I had what I felt were weak reasons to townread KTS so I didn't think they were that valid after the quickhammer.

If you remember the D1 twilight, I made a word cloud out of KillTheStory's D1 ISO, which means that I was kind of forced to look into it a bit closely. I felt that some of his interactions were townier than not (by D1 standards, things like the reaction to the RQS, the sudden change in tone from his interactions with KCDAspot, refusal to explain his vote in 349... all seem like townier things that come from KTS, and he's kind of a hard player to read), but I didn't feel extremely confident in it.

By "we bonded" and "we're tight", I was saying that since I gave a lot more (internal) attention to my KTS townread than I did my Phantom one. Yeah, I pushed harder against Phantom's ML D1 because I don't really think the KTS wagon got that much momentum, but almost everyone had Phantom as a secondary scumread, but my townread of Phantom was pretty much "His RVS looked more VI than scum-motivated and lurker lynches are stupid." With KTS, there were at least some interactions I felt were townie.

I've been saying this a lot but my issue this game was having too many townreads and not giving myself much room to adapt or think critically about them post-D1. I also should trust my gut more often...

Yeah, I have no wolf games sadly that would be helpful for meta (I think buried on my sister's laptop is a chatlog for a Great Idea game where I won by coasting as a solo mafia goon by claiming miller D1 and no-killing every day? not really helpful tbh) ... which sucks because I play mafia more for scum than for town anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so basicaly you lost your scum read on KTS, but then his vote hop onto PC looked survivalistic, so you then figured he was the last wolf after all?

Pretty much, but there was a weak townread in the beginning, then it turned into a scumread, then back into a townread, then into a scumread. I think I even explained this to Transcend? I'll pull up the quote in a sec.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

l-1 if i'm counting correctly
sorry transcend, rosske's tomorrow if he flips green at the very least

had you in fact manually counted the votes before voting the hammer? And do you have a history of occassionally messing up voting totals?

I think so (don't really remember), and no, but knowing myself personally it's something I would do

that was my lolhammer right?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Mod, please prod Tenshii

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Oh I get it. Okay so Reply 1 was saying "This" as in what I replied to is what I agree with. And Reply 2 is saying there's more reasons for Thor to be scumread here than Giga. And also Karnos's interactions with Giga have tidbits in there where it comes off like Karnos is talking to town!Giga. And Giga has tidbits where she talks like she genuinely doesn't know for sure Karnos is scum.

Can you point this out? The outcome of this game that scares me most is that this is scum!Thor all along, just because of how unpredictable it is.

I also think I might have had a question for you you missed? I will check my ISO to make sure I'm not going crazy.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I also think I might have had a question for you you missed? I will check my ISO to make sure I'm not going crazy.

nah i'm going crazy

[gigabyteTroubadour]

there is something else that bothered me about Karnos's responses that I will discuss after I feel I have enough responses to go off of.

Obviously I have to be curious about that, but more importantly: how do you feel about people who flat out refuse to answer your questions?

i just can't see Karnos throwing shade at his own partner like this... Why would he have to be sneaky about throwing shade at someone he knows is scum? It doesn't seem very SvS, especially considering the fact that I don't think anyone in the original playerlist would risk having to bus scum!Thor D1...

He also insisted I was part of the group of people he was criticizing, so I'm inclined to believe that means Thor and I are the same alignment.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Tenshii being high in my earlier readlists was because of the fact that A: scumreading him would be due to pre-flip associations D1, B: I thought his posts about the dodgeball gag were kind of townie, especially with scummier people alive, and C: I have townread every single slot in this game except for Karnos's at some point.

Out of everyone alive, I think Tenshii is the most obviously scummy, but it's still plausible he's not scum.

I think this was your most recent read. Still there or no? I'm basically at the same place; I have a really hard time seeing you Thor or trans as a wolf here.

Yes, pretty much.

What's making me not vote is that I don't know what LYLO is safer. The one of {smith, tenshii} that isn't lynched will obviously make it. But what happens in, say, a Smith/Thor/Giga lylo...? Or Smith/Thor/Transcend? There are a lot of possibilities that I can see go wrong if it's not Tenshii.

Tenshii, if you're town and you make it to LYLO with Thor and Transcend, I really wouldn't know who you should vote for. If Thor votes for you instantly and you're town, the game is instantly lost if Transcend is mafia (unless it's Thor in which case you're forced to crossvote anyway). Kind of a useless answer, but I think the best thing to do is agree with everyone on who crossvotes before voting.

Transcend is most likely town. Mhsmith and Tenshii can really be anything at this point, I keep waffling between the two. I don't see a way Thor gets lynched today if at all, so Tenshii should probably vote for Smith and then allow me to hammer whoever I feel is correct.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

if tenshii flips and i die i want you to lynch smith fwiw.

yeah that's the most likely scenario i think.

only concern is that thor might vote me over mhsmith in that LYLO, it would look very strange if both Thor and I were alive together tomorrow.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Kind of a useless answer, but I think the best thing to do is agree with everyone on who crossvotes before voting.

Don't really see the point in this.
Like, if A, B, and C are in lylo, and A townreads B and scumreads C he doesn't care what the discussion on cross voting is - he's going to vote C unless he is bad at the game.

Say, in a Thor/Smith/Transcend LYLO, I think it would be an issue if, say, town!Transcend comes in and votes town!Thor and lets scum!Smith quickhammer... I know that's not likely to happen, but I would prefer if we can make sure that a universal townread gets to hammer. I thought that made sense, idk

[gigabyteTroubadour]

wouldn't it be you though? I know in my example transcend voted for you but I don't think that's how it'd actually go.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Blugh.

Thanks, Transcend.

I still don't feel ready to hammer, but I can't really think of anything I can do that will make me feel ready. Does anyone have last thoughts or anything to input...? If Tenshii flips town, I don't really see my reads changing.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Are you ithing tenshii

more like it-ithing... something feels off but I don't know what.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Urp

is this ur final plea

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so are there objections to me hammering...?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'll assume I'm just bad and Thor is town because NOBODY has agreed with me in the slightest. If I still have a say then mhsmith0 > Transcend.

I don't really understand why scum!Karnos is going to subtlety throw shit at his own partner... In case Thor and I both make it to LYLO and you are town, I really need to understand your POV here in case Mhsmith is actually town.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Just tell me where your head is leaning before you vote.

Tenshii>Mhsmith>I keep waffling between Thor and Transcend as the top townread but I never put much thought into it because you're probably both town anyway

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's mostly to attack smith but i can point out some things i think that make tenshii town. This all happens after work of course.

sounds good

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i was expecting to see quotes from the respective people in those spoilers, not rehashing of old quotes. Thank you though.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hghgghghghh

intent to hammer Tenshii

if it's not tenshii, mhsmith goes to lylo anyway and probably gets instalynched regardless of alignment unless scum!Thor/Transcend decides to fuck with me and kills him off instead

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It was just a restatement of "I town read tenshii" without actually getting into substance of WHY you tr him or even addressing the actual case against him.

yeah p much this, sorry transcend

like the idea was nice and i read through it but i just... don't see how we can lose this unless the truth is really bizarre. tenshii makes more sense to me but i still think mhsmith is viable. town can only lose at this point if it really is thor imo.

also i'm waiting until tenshii posts to hammer

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i still have a day
is it worth it?

also miss is good but mx. (pronounced "mix") is the gender neutral honorific. facts! (although i believe it's only recognized in british english)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Then we're good to go. I still think this makes the most sense.

VOTE: Tenshii

Sorry Transcend, and sorry town!Tenshii. I can't see us losing this either way.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

This is the lylo I expected...

Me being spared over Thor points towards Transcend scum, I think. Thor was the person least likely to vote for Mhsmith and bringing both me and him to LYLO is his only shot at survival. I need to think this over though.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

my lunch is over so i'll be able to review the game at 4 pm est

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's possible that Giga might be Bins-ing me and leaving me alive to ML mhsmith. FJDKDS.

ik there's a question for me but i only have like 5 minutes of free time so i'll just respond to this:

I had the hammer yesterday and had to choose between Tenshii and Mhsmith yesterday... Scum!Me is DEFINITELY going to lynch Mhsmith because Tenshii/Thor is the best Lylo possible for me. So, if you're going to argue that I'm scum (which is FINE considering the circumstances), you have to argue I'm making a suboptimal decision intentionally...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

When you come back Giga: Why did you let your Tenshii town read go to waste? I'm trying to decide how you 180'd there. I think his play was fairly consistent the whole game and his tone matched throughout the whole game. I gave you a plethora of reasons from my ISO that Tenshii could be town and you didn't really take any of them to heart. Walk me entirely through what made you lynch Tenshii yesterday.

Thor fed into my paranoia early game, so after that I never really HAD a townread to 180 from. I read your posts but you pretty much just quoted yourself so it's not like I really felt any need to change my read. Should I explain my scumread on Tenshii or...?

Also I was thinking that a Thor/Giga LYLO isn't really that great for scum!mhsmith because I openly admit that I would vote Mhsmith right off the bat and I would expect Mhsmith to vote me back because I don't think anyone could have pushed Thor as scum. So maybe mhsmith has to take the risk as scum? I'd still take Tenshii and Thor with me to LYLO and I'll be using that as my defense all day

There's also the fact I had NOTHING to gain from pushing Karnos from a scum perspective. If anything, I'd be planning on having Karnos carry my team's win because I really would not expect myself to be able to pull off a successful first scum game outside of the Newbie Queue.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If anything I want to hear the case against me because (I guess this is in part of knowing I'm town) it just really seems unlikely for me to be scum and I want to know the thought process behind it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Transcend I think the mod just listed scum first.

is kankies the kind of scummer who rvss his partner...? lmao is this even worth metaing?

(i'm starting a phone reread)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i haven't found a recent game where Krinkles votes for his partner during RVS

so, it's irrelevant

[gigabyteTroubadour]

What I'm trying to figure out is how you 180'd so many town reads. You had kts as town then lynched him. Then you had PC as town and lynched him. You had tenshii as hard town and then lynched him. And now your tr on me has disintegrated but i can understand the last one since we're in lylo and it's balls intense. I really wanna believe that all those flips you made were genuine and not tactical. But you never exactly committed to a strong scum read. I'm not saying that this play from you makes you scum, but it could make you scum since it looks mad shady.

is this @me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

k
i'll answer that in a bit

i was totally supporting the rosske wagon tho i thought that was clear?? idk i'll have to reread bc i dont even remember what i was thinking months ago

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh yeah that's true
i though tenshii was a better lynch at the time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm phone posting and kind of distracted if that's not obv

[gigabyteTroubadour]

no it's just like

every decision mhsmith has made this game seems to hurt him... i would have expected (at first) for him to kill you, but after thinking about it he benefits from this lylo too. so that point is kinda pointless now i guess.

tbh im tempted to vote him but i really need to like actually think this game (i lost interest d2) bc atm i kind of just want to dick around

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao thanks

this is like my worst game tbqh, i had like no reads or motivation to try

personally i like my waffles made from like those Pillsbury biscuit things and then cooked on the waffle iron. it feels so illegal but so right. also works for cinnamon rolls from the same can

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'd like to know if, after mhsmith metas me, if i really am an aggressive player? tbh my inaction this game came more from tunneling karnos D1 and not making a solid effort to sort people besides him, Thor, and Io and it makes sense w/ my personality so idk.

i really cannot see transcend as scum, so I'm starting to wonder if I'm supposed to be the mislynch bait or what...? Mhsmith doesn't look like he came into this lylo with a clear plan, so I'm having a tough time gauging the nightkill and feel kind of lost.

i feel like i should answer transcend's question about me voting townreads post-D1 but truthfully my answer kinda sucks. Like i said before i got caught up in a tunnel on karnos and kind of ignored the other slots (i had strong opinions about phantom i guess but it was more "don't lynch lynchbait!!" than a defense of a serious townread). d2 i just was so confused i kind of gave up and started coasting, i was townreading every slot besides Rosske (and kankies) throughout the whole game and I just assumed I had to be wrong SOMEWHERE.

i still haven't read-read through the game recently and this game is just kind of an annoying one to read

also i haven't won a single game yet lmao. my newbie was 100% on me but Town deserved the win in 649 because I had the game solved, but died after someone quick-selfhammered themselves for literally no reason