Newbie 1725: Innocents, Inc. [Game Over!]

[Shadow_step]

#510 is in response to #508

MT you are making no sense. You are saying that I should be scum reading Lucca for not responding to me put Loop on l-1.
How would I scum read them when that a slot hasn't posted anything??
You on the other hand blatalantly ignored it.
Get the difference ?

Again, I did not say you should be scumreading Lucca. I questioned your modivations for targeting only me from the people who did not react.

You have to start somewhere, there is no point pressuring someone like Lucca who was not likely to respond.
Plus I only have one vote, I can't pressurise 3 people at once.

If this is why you are scum reading me then congratulations.

[Creature]

I am more confident in a lucca lynch, but her slot gives the less information.

[Thor665]

Again, I did not say you should be scumreading Lucca. I questioned your modivations for targeting only me from the people who did not react.

Why should he have taken a lack of reaction form Lucca as about his slot as opposed to Lucca not reacting because Lucca wasn't even there to react?

It's like me asking why you don't know how many fingers I'm holding up.
You can't.
Because you're not here.

[PenguinPower]

Sorry in advance for the WoT. I don't usually like to do this.

Yes.

To add more to this, since you will probably ask me about it, Loop. I looked through MissTerry's ISO and I found a major scumslip (not the thing you pointed out). I'll explain it later, waiting for her response first.

Have you explained this...haven't seen it. Oh, wait...

There's nothing scummy that I found in Missy's ISO. Things have been easy for her so far this game. I wanted to see how she would handle pressure. And you know what?

UNVOTE:

I like what I saw. Moving her from Lean Town to Town.

Fairish point...she has provided defense when challenged before, but this time she just wanted to hear what it was. May have been more effective if you had actually provided something...even if inflammatory.

The power of re-reading.

Also, I don't need preferences when my intention is pressuring.

Pressuring by stating that you are pressuring...oh, I feel the pressure! You're not going to actually lynch me. Bad post. Looks like Thor called that out later on, and LoopDan agrees.

@Thor-- If you haven't yet realized that I'm town, you should at least have recognized that I'm not the lynch today. And Creature looks safe, too.

Let's get some votes on Lucca before some hotshot veteran replaces into that scum-slot and sows confusion in the game.

Oh, man. I was actually starting to lean creature before this post. Let's lynch a slot before we can even glean information from the replacement player about that slots alignment! Bad post.

It complicates VCA

Vote Count Analysis? Can you explain a bit more about what this is?

I'm definitely not okay with lynching someone who can't even defend themself. An exception to that would be if the slot is blatant and obvious scum - which in this case, it isn't. Waiting for lucca's replacement and judging the slot by that is better.

Agreed. Good post.

Well that vote list is ridiculous...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadow
Looked fine before but now he's slipping.

Why? How is he slipping?

Not lynching lucca261 because it's an empty slot is a garbage reason. If you feel more confident in that slot being scum than everybody else, there's no reason to not lynch it.

It's a garbage reason when the slot has 10 total posts and has not provided enough info to lean one way or the other beyond pure speculation.

Hark looks more townish to me now. Blank drops a bit...just not enough content from him at this point. Creature and LoopDan are giving me the strongest scumreads now/still. I think Shadow is wrong about Miss Terry, but I don't get a scum vibe from him. Would really like Lucca's slot to get replaced in.

[Thor665]

Vote Count Analysis? Can you explain a bit more about what this is?

Vote Count Analysis is the method of looking back at vote counts once players have started to flip and analyzing the patterns that happen there.
The basic gist of it is, people voting early and aggressive on scum are probably more likely town.
People voting on town are more likely scum.
Et al.
It gets stronger the more flips you have.
There are a lot of permutations and levels, but that's the quick pocket answer.

[innocentvillager]

serrapaladin replaces lucca261. Welcome him!

[Harkonnen97]

Welcome Paladin.

I'm not reading Shadow's rude behaviour as a frustrated town anymore. You just have a problem with being unable to stay calm, so I think that you would act the same as scum. I understand getting heated up, but you shouldn't be so rude, especially to females.

VOTE: serrapaladin

This is your welcoming gift.

[Shadow_step]

Welcome paladin.

Hope you make yourself useful and vote MT.

[Shadow_step]

@Penguin why do you think I am wrong about MT?
What do you think about the points I have raised?

[Creature]

Oh nice, BlankFace is reaction testing me again.

[Harkonnen97]

Oh nice, BlankFace is reaction testing me again.

[Loopdan]

@Thor-- If you haven't yet realized that I'm town, you should at least have recognized that I'm not the lynch today. And Creature looks safe, too.

Let's get some votes on Lucca before some hotshot veteran replaces into that scum-slot and sows confusion in the game.

Oh, man. I was actually starting to lean creature before this post. Let's lynch a slot before we can even glean information from the replacement player about that slots alignment! Bad post.

Did you miss my subsequent posts on this matter, or just choose to ignore them to make me appear scummier? I very clearly stated in my very next post that...

I am

not

OK with lynching Lucca before a replacement. I would, however, like the replacement to arrive and feel some immediate pressure.

Spoiler: All my recent Lucca posts for context

Shadow's point about voting applies to me, too.

VOTE: Lucca

Not a strong scum-lean, but I don't have a stronger one at this point.

Thanks for the explanation, Thor.


I just read Lucca's other game here on MS, and am liking my vote on that slot even more, now.

I just read Lucca's other game here on MS, and am liking my vote on that slot even more, now.

Why is that?

In 1706, townLucca showed a much deeper level of analysis and was much more accusatory early on than Lucca has been in our game.

@Thor-- If you haven't yet realized that I'm town, you should at least have recognized that I'm not the lynch today. And Creature looks safe, too.

Let's get some votes on Lucca before some hotshot veteran replaces into that scum-slot and sows confusion in the game.

The only reason you'd vote an empty slot is if you're planning to lynch, so:
Is everyone fine with lucca lynch?
Do you think we should end the day now?

I'm definitely not okay with lynching someone who can't even defend themself. An exception to that would be if the slot is blatant and obvious scum - which in this case, it isn't. Waiting for lucca's replacement and judging the slot by that is better.

I am

not

OK with lynching Lucca before a replacement. I would, however, like the replacement to arrive and feel some immediate pressure.

In 1706, townLucca showed a much deeper level of analysis and was much more accusatory early on than Lucca has been in our game.

Lucca hasn't really been in our game, though.
His last time on site was concurrent with his last post in this game.
Why would you think this is strategic?

Note my use of "early on." When I read lucca's ISOs side by side, it was apparent that there was an immediate ease to his play in the other game that was not present at the start of our game.

I am not saying the inactivity is scummy. I'm saying the content of his posts is superficial here compared to the in-depth work he did at the start of his last (town) game.

In 1706, townLucca showed a much deeper level of analysis and was much more accusatory early on than Lucca has been in our game.

Lucca hasn't really been in our game, though.
His last time on site was concurrent with his last post in this game.
Why would you think this is strategic?

Note my use of "early on." When I read lucca's ISOs side by side, it was apparent that there was an immediate ease to his play in the other game that was not present at the start of our game.

I am not saying the inactivity is scummy. I'm saying the content of his posts is superficial here compared to the in-depth work he did at the start of his last (town) game.

Okay, I'm half buying - you have a link to this example game?

Lucca's previous game on MS. Lucca shows up in post 35.

Penguin, did you not read the rest of the thread when you posted your comment about 465 being bad? Or are you trying to justify lingering on a failed wagon while you wait for the next townie wagon to form?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: PenguinPower

Now that Shadow is being quite more towny.

You had sorta scum leans on MT, you don't agree with my case?
Why don't you vote MT?

(2)

[Creature]

What makes me wonder is that MissTerry finely gave her thoughts even when Hark said he found a major scumslip.

[Creature]

Yes, that makes me hesitate at calling MT scum. What would you do if someone called you scumslipped?

[Loopdan]

Welcome to the game serrapaladin! Feel free to sheep my vote.

[Shadow_step]

Yes, that makes me hesitate at calling MT scum. What would you do if someone called you scumslipped?

I would call it a bluff and ask them to point it out.
This is day 1 in an open setup. I don't understand what possibly could be a scum slip on this day.

[Harkonnen97]

Town - Loopdan, MissTerry
Lean Town - Creature, BlankFace
Null - serrapaladin, Penguin, Thor
Lean Scum - Shadow_Step

Moving Thor up to Null because his late posts feel really townish, and he finally stopped tunneling.

Moving Shadow back to Lean Scum because he is tunneling and I don't like his refusal to interact. He's either a very stubborn town, or scum who is posing as one, can't tell which.

Paladin, when you catch up, please give us your thoughts.

Shadow, how many games of Mafia have you played before this one?

[Loopdan]

I hate to admit this, but I don't see a convincing scum-case on anybody right now. There are a couple players I'd vote against at deadline, but at this point I've got nothing. I'll do some iso re-reads tonight.

@Thor-- Why have you become much more passive in this game lately? Losing interest or not seeing a target?

[Loopdan]

<<snip>>

Moving Shadow back to Lean Scum because he is tunneling and I don't like his refusal to interact. He's either a very stubborn town, or scum who is posing as one, can't tell which.

<<snip>>

Why do you say he is refusing to interact? I see lots of interaction on the last two pages. Are you referring to his refusal to give reads?

[Creature]

I think we should start coordinating a lynch, it looks like our opinions are very diversificated.

[Harkonnen97]

Do you have reads?

I do, I'll share them when I see fit.

Someone please explain me the town motivation behind this. I'll wait.

Shadow, sorry if this sounds rude, but I think that you are either scum, or newbtown with an attitude problem.

I'm not scum or newbtown or have an attitude problem.
I have a legit reason to not share my reads. I don't want scum to kill off my town reads. Also, if you were smart enough it should be obvious enough what my reads on certain players are from my posts.

He claims that he isn't giving his town reads, in fear of the mafia killing them. But then in the same post he also says that if I look closely at his posts, I could see his reads on certain players.

Can someone please explain to me what prevents the Mafia from examining his posts, seeing who are his so precious town reads and killing them off, like he is so afraid that they will do?

I'm asking for his reads and I will keep doing it because I want to read his slot. Not giving your reads makes your slot harder to read, and I dare anyone to argue with me on that.

[Creature]

I know you want X lynched so much, but you should look for other satisfying lynches that someone might agree with.

[Harkonnen97]

My biggest scumread is Shadow, but ideally I would like it if Paladin catches up and shares his thoughts first. A new set of eyes looking through the game is helpful, plus Paladin might end up being a better lynch than Shadow.

When there are 48 hours until deadline I'm switching my vote from Paladin to Shadow.

[Creature]

By not posting your reads, you're refusing to give info for town. And that info you're refusing to give is more valuable to town than mafia. Mafia will know who's a better target, but who told the rest of the town might not try to get a conclusion and turn the game against mafia?