Open 28 - Quack Mafia. OVER! But who won? before 466

[Battle Mage]

thats totally uncalled for Jordan.

Vote: Jdodge

-pre-emptive strike.

with regard to the death, i think the flavour implies that he was a legitimate doctor.

[Battle Mage]

lol BWers.... -,-

[Battle Mage]

Hi everyone, my name's Mert and I'm a Doctor. Last night my target didn't die, meaning I'm either not a Quack or my target is Mafia.

Anyway, in the interests of a wagon,

Vote: Dral

.

yeh, i was wondering too about a mass-claim of targets. I think the best chance we have of winning this game, is to force the scum to lie. It probably wont tell us anything today, but by tomorrow or the next day, we should be able to catch out lying scum, by impossibilities in their claim.

oh and Mert, you forgot the possibility that you ARE a Quack, and another normal doctor protected your target.

BM

[Battle Mage]

avoid night choices? are you frigging serious!?
Our best chance at finding the scum is to use the confirmed quacks to target people. A quack is like a Vig-Cop combo.

Unvote, Vote: Hjallti

@Mert-there is nothing wrong with that style of quoting. Its what all the cool kids are doing.

Partly OMGUS

FoS:theopor_COD

Of course I have been planning, I want to win the game. But that is no scumtell.

Look 1 out of a possible 4 townies died the first night.

A townie could die by a scum night kill of a quack protection.

We know that 1 guy died this night. We also already know that Dral tried to protect him. I didn't protect him but someone else. The possibilities are still big, but if we collect data we could find out how the puzzle works.

@Dral: Don't suicide but avoid night choices from now. We need to lynch scum, quacks can stay alive without problem.

[Battle Mage]

Thats a poorly concealed OMGUS vote right there!
A Quack IS a Vig, because he kills at night. Obviously there are some restrictions, hence i said he was 'LIKE A VIG'. This is also why a Quack acts partially as a Cop, because if you target someone and they dont die and nobody else targetted them, you know they are scum.

Again i will pick you up on the following misleading comment:

It sure is scummy to try to get rid of a discussion of what might be a winning strategy for town.

Please do tell me, how i said that discussion was bad. If you can, i will contribute in lynching myself.

I disagree about claiming on the 3rd day. By that time we may have lost some people. If we dont get specific reveals on roles, we need to get as much as we can while people are alive. I was thinking about a mass-claim today.

oh and i DO agree about Dral. If anything it does look a tad scummy to use a death as an alibi for you being Quack.

BM
(Note that my reasons are not as OMGUS as the vote seems!)
As I see it, we should mass claim on the second or third day about our night choices. Probably we could filter out the wrong information by scum and find the target. And if the info fits together sum might have claimed very late (when they could see what to do) and thus even that might be info.

Dral is not freed of any suspicous. It is possible his night choice caused the death of FeRnAnDo without him having to be a quack.[/quote]

[Battle Mage]

I agree, a mass claim of choices might be good in a few days but I don't really want to do it now. What I

would

consider today (though I'd want some discussion from everyone on the merits first) would be people just claiming whether they protected or didn't protect but not claiming their targets yet. Thoughts?

i'd like to think that everybody made use of the protect option. We need to make use of the information available to us.
Obviously i protected somebody last night, and they are still alive.

BM

[Battle Mage]

But you could just tell

me

, right Aimee? In exchange for eternal Merthuggles and stuff, y'know?

For some odd reason, I thought that said "Mert Thuggles", and thought you were going to send your various hired goons or something.

ROFLMAO

[Battle Mage]

wtf is a parkway?

[Battle Mage]

damn crazy americans.

http://nukeusa.co.uk/bombs

[Battle Mage]

its true that there are disadvantages to using our ability, but there again, it is our best hope of beating the Mafia. The whole idea of this setup is that as long as we are all honest about our claims, we can catch out the Mafia within a couple of days. By not using our role, we aren't able to learn from it, as its of great importance to know whether we are a Quack or Normal Doc.

though again, i've never played this setup either....

So to finish the thought out…

avoid night choices? are you frigging serious!?
Our best chance at finding the scum is to use the confirmed quacks to target people. A quack is like a Vig-Cop combo.

this is not really true. I mean, if I target someone who is a doctor (if I am indeed a quack), I kill them, thus helping the mafia. Now we can all combine our efforts and be honest with our choices, but the mafia will throw in false info, which would be difficult to catch not to mention it is almost like claiming. The only way a Quack is like a Vig, is that he has potential to kill at night. But he can only kill a townie….so how does this help the town at this point?

Please someone else comment on this…new to the game and want to understand the strategy of this. BM’s posts seems scummy to me, but that might be because I do not fully understand Quack mafia yet.

[Battle Mage]

You don't want a deadline warning, I hope.

Calm down dear, game's only just started . . .

unvote

vote Battle Mage

Seriously if there's a good place to hang your hat, it's on BM.

care to offer a reason for that vote?

[Battle Mage]

The problem with a mass claim this early is it gives the scum a sure list of who is a doc and who's a quack, and can start trying to eliminate the normal doc's each night.

not really. true it gives them as much information as us, they dont really NEED to know who is Quack and who is Doc, whereas we need the info to deduce who is scum.

I support a mass-claim, so i'll start off. I protected Mert last night.

[Battle Mage]

That makes 3 of us...

Mod:

If a quack and a regular doctor target a doctor, will that doctor die or will he live since he's been protected? I know it's an odd question, but still.

i expect the 2 counteract each other...

[Battle Mage]

That makes 3 of us...

Mod:

If a quack and a regular doctor target a doctor, will that doctor die or will he live since he's been protected? I know it's an odd question, but still.

i expect the 2 counteract each other...

BM is our genius of the day.

wow. you'd be amazed how infrequently i hear those words on this site.

[Battle Mage]

BM's latest posts give me a much better feeling.

unvote

Last night my dear friends I protected Jordan, as I guessed the majority of you would sling your coat tails on JDodge, Mert or Battle Mage.

surely with that logic you would have protected one of us, knowing that we would also be popular NK targets?

[Battle Mage]

Jordan's an adequate decent player.

What do you find difficult to comprehend?

Plus BM I could just as easily be a quack or a Doc, I don't know yet - do any of us? No.

true enough, but i don't really understand your reasoning behind your targetting.

[Battle Mage]

BM's latest posts give me a much better feeling.

unvote

Last night my dear friends I protected Jordan, as I guessed the majority of you would sling your coat tails on JDodge, Mert or Battle Mage.

i must be losing it here. seriously.
Let me try one last time to explain how this appears to me:

You protected Jordan last night. thats fine in itself. But then your reason for protecting Jordan was that you thought Jdodge Mert or myself would have been more likely targets. Now this doesnt make alot of sense to me. I mean, if you thought somebody was a priority target for doc-protect, it would make sense to assme that you felt they were likely to be Mafia targets too. So if you felt that the scum were going to target Jdodge, Mert or me, WHY did you protect Jordan?

Dammit i'm confused. This genius status is alotta pressure i guess. :p

[Battle Mage]

Remember people: Just because someone said that they targeted someone who lived, it

does not

mean that they are confirmed doctors. It seems a little like theo is trying to get people to forget that.

agreed.

FoS: Theo

[Battle Mage]

yep thats right. Dral is definitely either Quack or Scum, so tomorrow we can test his claim to see if it fits with a Quack.
I'm also perturbed by the fact that nobody protected me.

[Battle Mage]

There are 6 doctors (5 left) 3 quacks and 3 scum. I think 'to pick out the doctor' is here a bad word choice.
The puzzle is indeed easier for scum than for us, but the task is different as well:
if we find the puzzle even at lylo we win (if we don't we do not nec. loose: we might lynch right and stay at lylo till endgame and thus win), scums' task is to prevent us from finding this puzzle.

err not necessarily. the OP didnt make it crystal clear whether Fernando was a normal Doc or a Quack from what i remember...

[Battle Mage]

or you are a Quack, and Jdodge is scum.

It looks like I'm a doctor, which is a good thing I guess.... I can't believe no one else went for JDodge.


We need to flush out the liers....

how do you know you are a doctor? What is your plan to flush liars?

1) No one else claimed they voted for JDodge, and I did. So I'm hoping I'm a doc.

2) I'm currently working on it. I'll have something soon...

[Battle Mage]

I think we may assume FeRnAnDo to be a regular doc.

wow, i was really liking your analysis up to that point. It was detailed, and factual, and then you stick in what is no more than a guess.
still i suppose the quality of the rest of your analysis compensates for that mistake. :p

[Battle Mage]

The reason I use 'think we may assume' is because I am pretty new here and it seems it is a general rule that the mod gives away the thruthful line up of player on his death. I would expect that with a 'quack doctor' this would be told at the death scene. Maybe the

mod

can answer the question:

Would you reveal of a death player that (s)he is quack or not?

I already asked that. lol
apparently the mod is checking it out with some other people before she can be sure.

[Battle Mage]

you must have had some bad experienced then. In my experience metagaming can be a very useful tool. Don't get me wrong, it is usually of more value to the individual than to the town itself, but the fact is, metagaming can, as a rule, give significant insight into who might be scum. Indeed in this case, i do consider the action suspicious, but not to the extent of requiring a vote. It has been noted however.

Because there could be an infinite number of reasons he asked for a replacement. Maybe he didn't like the mod, maybe he didn't like one of the other players, maybe he just decided he didn't like that game type. Sure, the metagaming could be right, but most of the time metagaming turns out to be little more than conjecture.

didnt like the mod? why did he sign up for the game?
didint like a player? why did he confirm?
type of game? wouldnt you want to check to see if the games are similar?

Everything in day 1 is conjecture...

at any rate, I just want other people to look into it and make up their own mind. I can see yours is already made up with out looking into it...

Well, I dunno about those games, but I know this game didn't have a mod until after I signed up for it. As for the rest, I couldn't tell you, I'm not the player, and these are all random guesses. As I said, I don't care for meta-gaming, 99% of the metagaming I've seen has gotten townies killed for bad, bad reasoning.

[Battle Mage]

lol no. I was talking to ControlledBum, hence i quoted him, and not you.

Battle Mage, is the 'you' in your previous post me?
In that case I think you missed my point, since I didn't use emotion in it.
I just argued that even if metagaming might lead us to the conclusion that Dral finds this game interesting over another game, that this is not a scumtell since this game is not really comparable to regular games.
I already thought this set up was more appealing, because of the possibilities of nice puzzle logic, regardless my line up, when I sign up, so before I even knew my line up.

Therefor I can conceive that even if Dral admits he prefers this game over another it is not a scumtell.

[Battle Mage]

I can't help but just be confused by Mert's question,

"So your strategy was to try and target someone you believed would be targetted so you could test your role?"

Just seems like an odd out of the park question. It was first round... how would anyone know who might be targeted? What made you choose Curious? What made anyone choose anyone first round, it was like a stab in the dark trying to turn suspicion to me. With that,

Unvote
Vote: Mert

i dont see what you are getting at here. Just like with any protection role on N0, there are a vast number of reasons to choose your target, as addressed by Hjallti. However some people here AREN'T Docs, and thus are pulling their target out of their ass. Thus it can be useful to validate their reasoning. For example, Theo's target may have been reasonable, but his logic for targetting that person was contradictory, making him a target for suspicion. Similarly, CKD chose the safe option of targetting nobody, which was always going to be regarded with suspicion. Hence we asked him his REASONS, to see whether his line of thought at the time might explain his choice.

as for your question about knowing who would be targetted, its pretty logical to expect that most scum are going to target the players they think are a threat, on N0. Similarly, the doctors would logically protect the most capable players, realising that they would be major targets. Of course this isnt always the case, but i think it works as a general rule.

[Battle Mage]

thats what Jdodge DOES. lol

[Battle Mage]

i dont think thats a great excuse.

FoS: Jdodge

I was gonna say, Where is JDodge in the mix of this. Usually he has a say on things.

Boo.

What the hell?

You were wondering where I was...

Ummmm...Kay...You still havn't said anything. You like to control the town, why havn't you?

I use different playstyles for different types of games.

[Battle Mage]

i dont think thats a great excuse.

FoS: Jdodge

I do. Open Games are like vacations to me. Gives me a chance to try other things.

dude, thats what newbie games are for. lol

[Battle Mage]

err what?

[Battle Mage]

^i feel the same way....

[Battle Mage]

@Dral and Battle Mage:following without contribution is a scumtell and noted!

I am not following anyone. I'm reading the thread as often as possible, but unfortunately there isn't a great deal to go on today. I think from tomorrow onwards, we may be able to lynch logically by stories that don't add up.
However today we need to take a gut-shot, and i'm genuinely not sure enough of anyone to really place a decent vote at this stage.

I feel Hjallti is town from recent posts, but other than that i probably need a critical reread. :p

BM

[Battle Mage]

mod: may we assume FeRnAnDo was no quack from the night scene?

I cannot reveal this. The decision is that both Doctors and Quacks will be labelled "Doctor". In short, there is no way to work out from the night scene whether FeRnAnDo was a Doctor or a Quack.

crap. thats going to make it alot harder to use the information we have.


oh and

Unvote

I think the vote count may be wrong, as i don't remember any roles in the game having multiple votes-even Mert!

[Battle Mage]

Dral, we can still catch the scum in a lie, don't worry about that. Yes it might be more difficult than you had thought, but it's still possible.

Plus, we can still catch scum the old fashioned way. Let's have a look at those people that claim to have protected me (as others have mentioned) and then go from there.

I agree with everything here, apart from the targetting of people who protected you. Evidently, in a few days time, we will be able to learn alot from these people.
I'm more worried about people who targetted for weak reasoning, or chose not to target atall.
still need full reread.

[Battle Mage]

what the hell? are you mechanically producing this craplogic?

apart

from the targetting of people who protected you.

No surprise there, wouldn't want to cast suspicion on yourself eh. Jordan and JDodge clear in your eyes, BM? Three people target one person . . . chances are statistically wise one of them's probably a lieing scumbag. Ignoring them isn't the play for me.

vote Battle Mage

You think because 3 people targetted one person there is more chance of them being scum? thats totally ridiculous. I mean, maybe it might make sense if the target was somebody obscure, but i don't think its surprising that several people targetted Mert. Of course, it doesn't mean the people who did so are confirmed town, but it doesn't by any means suggest that they are scum.
I'm guessing this poorly explained vote is pre-emptive, because you were one of the people guilty of a poorly explained vote earlier if i remember rightly. This vote appears to be an attempt to divert suspicion from yourself and perhaps CKD.

Vote: Theo

FoS: CKD

BM

[Battle Mage]

No you clown. It's the fact you automatically ignore Jordan and JDodge, when you say "apart from the people who protected Mert" . . . it's the word apart, obviously I don't expect anything but OMGUS when I attack you but it seems as if your giving JDodge and Jordan a free pass here.

If you read my play, you'd see that this is very far from the truth. Its like saying that by casting a vote on someone, you are giving everyone else a free pass, which is clearly BS.

[Battle Mage]

i'm rather annoyed with this game atm. If people aren't going to bother to read *coughPiggyCough*, then we are all pretty screwed.
I really have little idea who is scum. If BWing without evidence is a scumtell, then i would have alot of suspects, but that probably isn't the case.
I expect i owe this game a reread, and will do so at some point soon.

[Battle Mage]

great then maybe you can help lynch BM. Everyone's claimed, topics have been exhausted, and I've already seen arguments against BM, no need to regurgitate them.

How about we lynch BM and, if he's town, we lynch you tomorrow?

FoS Mert

just for that post.

[Battle Mage]

great then maybe you can help lynch BM. Everyone's claimed, topics have been exhausted, and I've already seen arguments against BM, no need to regurgitate them.

How about we lynch BM and, if he's town, we lynch you tomorrow?

FoS Mert

just for that post.

OMGUS much?

no. surely you can see the setting up of lynches here!?
Basically Merts post translates to "Lynch BM today, and when he comes up town, we lynch you". From that, its not difficult to work out that he knows i am town, hence plans tomorrows mislynch aswell.

[Battle Mage]

If Ms Piggy doesn't start helping soon, i'm tempted to add my vote. also, what does MIA mean? (i assume it has something to do with absence)

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Indy

Why?

He already answered that.

[Battle Mage]

why would you want to hear more of that bs?

Vote: Stewie

I just finished reading the thread. A few things I noticed are:

-Dral posting to say he has nothing to post, BM following up with a similar post.
-CKD claiming he targeted nobody at night. Might be because as a doctor he thought it would be better for him not to protect someone and risk killing them, but worth noting.
-Piggy reads the game in 10 minutes and concludes that BM is the right lynch. I think that's a little too fast to come to that conclusion, particularly since she did not give any reasoning other than 'things that other people say and therefore she does not need to repeat' (paraphrased).


In conclusion, I think Piggy and BM are possible scum; and we need to keep an eye on CKD. I'd like to

vote: Ms Piggy

, hopefully she'll have more to say about BM.

[Battle Mage]

EBWOP: Apparently i was already voting for Stewie, according to the flawed vote count a few posts back. :p

[Battle Mage]

why so defensive? If somebody does something i consider scummy, and another player seems to support this, they shouldnt be treated differently. Your reaction to my vote is enough to keep it there.
And yes, the vote count was flawed, but not where my own vote was concerned. If it mattered, i would have quoted it for you. As it doesnt, i merely mentioned it in passing, in case Aimee wanted to fix it.
Underneath quoting is like, my trademark. And no, i don't do it to deliberately annoy the incredibly lazy-i do it simply because its the easiest thing to do when i am replying to something.
tbh, this game isn't exactly moving like a speeding bullet. If you are getting lost when the game is going at this speed, i don't advise you join larger games yet...

Not only that, but I am not the one voting for him (yet). I simply asked Ms Piggy to explain her vote. BM called the reasoning bullshit and voted for me. I don't see how it follows that when he thinks Ms Piggy is voting him with bad reasoning and I ask her to explain that reasoning, I should be the subject of his suspicion. This strengthens me suspicion that they are scum together.

BM: you are voting for me, the vote count is not flawed.


Also, what's with the underneath quoting? It's irritatingly inefficient. You make a comment, but I don't know what the hell you are talking about, so I have to scroll down to see what you are talking about and then go back to the top of your post to read your comment on what was said at the bottom.[/irrelevant rant]

[Battle Mage]

meh-i'm simply in the habit of posting this way. I write from the top of the page to the bottom, and thus i read that way too. So when i'm posting, i can keep the quote within reach to read, but not above my new comments.
Meh, i cant really explain it very well. its just something i do. get used to it. :p

And no, i don't do it to deliberately annoy the incredibly lazy-i do it simply because its the easiest thing to do when i am replying to something.

I don't understand this point. It is as easy to type under as above. Looks like in both cases you type the same letters.

[Battle Mage]

1. Ms Piggy- reels off a load of WIFOM why i might be scum. It could just be genuine ignorance, or it could be simple scumminess. Then she goes away and lurks for ages.

2. Stewie- seemed to support Piggy's comments, and when Piggy started to lurk, he requested that she return with more crap. Regardless of Piggy's affiliation, i could see Stewie as scum (either setting off two townies against the other, or scum blatantly defending a buddy)
Then makes the common scum response of saying "I was supporting Piggy, so you should vote for her, and not me". I'm not buying it one bit.

3. Curiouskarmadog- merely for his claim of no choice sent in. Not in the same realms of scumminess as the other two, but would be my next choice for a lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

jesus, and Indy as well...

huh?
don't replace Jesus. He's the guy who invited me to join this game!

[Battle Mage]

FOrgot to do this.

Vote BM

odd that this comes after you put CKD top of your LoS. Plus, you are getting me confused with another guy on site (Black Mage). PLUS, placing a BW vote before you have read the whole game is pretty dumb.

BM

[Battle Mage]

N9V- i played a newbie game with Black Mage too. very confusing lol.

[Battle Mage]

dont worry, i'm here. still need to reread and catch up though.

[Battle Mage]

Request Replacement

I've made a personal decision with regard to mafia games, to only play those which i really enjoy. Rather than stay, and slow the game up by my lack of enthusiasm and participation, i'd rather allow someone else to play.
My activity here has been shameful, but i am already committed to rereads elsewhere, and i simply cannot keep up. Plus i've got college starting soon, and i won't have as much free time as i do now anyway.

Sorry about not being a really helpful player. Still, at least whoever replaces me won't have a great deal of pressure to do better.

good luck town!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually what am I talking about. I have no idea why Jordan was targetted N0 (random, I guess), and Hjallti, you were

going

to be targetted for the reasons above, but it was that kill that got missed.

N2 we killed somestrangeflea because we knew he and ckd were the only real docs, and it seemed like the safest bet.

Actually we took a pop at Jordan on Night 0 because he was one of 3 people we didn't want to have to face during the day. We felt that whilst he was a very good player, there was a reasonable chance that he wouldnt have been protected, as he was fairly under-rated at the time.
We were wrong i guess. lol

Good win by the scum. I'd like to say i helped, but as i'm not scum anymore, i don't feel obliged to lie. Still i guess as the guy who replaced me managed to survive, i cant have done that abysmally. :p

BM