Robbery! At The Casino (Game Over)

[Green Crayons]

I haven't read anything. Will try by tonight. If not, then tomorrow.

[Green Crayons]

Hey look I read this whole thread. Give me an award.


VOTE: Nati, on the theory of her being bored scum.


Not particularly pleased with it, but I'll need to do extra reading beyond a single read through to have something better.

[Green Crayons]

2. Shos

3. Perfect Chaos (Metal Sonic / Formerfish)

5. Natirasha

6. geraintm

7. GrayFoxxxx

8. ika

9. DoubleTrouble (MathBlade / Titus)

11. Desperado

12. BlueBloodedToffee

and before you ask, no your not getting reasons. i wil repaeat this again if i must, i am a player that makes little to no sense, if you are going to apporach me with that kinda of meathod then you will just be even more frustrated then ever before

i give shit about logic and people making sense i go by what i think is right. about 99% of the time most of my stuff is on the fly not giving shit stuff

So your play is basically "X is scum don't ask for reasons" until it becomes "X is town don't ask for reasons"?

Like, in all your games?


I'm not keen on an ika vote, I just don't quite understand why you would play this way (and I suspect you don't, at least not the extreme you appear to be implying?). Even people with minimalist playstyles provide reasoning at some point in time, even if it's just "look at these posts and they look town/scum."

[Green Crayons]

Anything really important I should know about before I start reading?

Double Trouble is Titus and ??? (Titus eventually replaced the slot).

Perfect Chaos is Sonic and formerfish (formerfish eventually replaced the slot).


If my memory serves me correctly.

[Green Crayons]

BBT: I read the thread through once.

[Green Crayons]

I'm not voting you, and thanks for just making stuff up about what I think about you.

[Green Crayons]

Okay.

your not going to get more then that untill i take action tonight

I don't care that you later claimed VT. I'm just curious why you wrote this. Or is that also too much to ask?

[Green Crayons]

lol

You certainly are tightly wound.

[Green Crayons]

Spoiler: So, the player I'd found most scummy so far is

"me" unfortunately. Doing all kinds of "analysis" during the RVS, and then being too chicken to vote.

I'm not sure about the Prolapsed wagon. I cant see scum being so ballsy but why would a town post so oddly like that? He is kind of lurking and if he seems anymore scummy than he already has I will vote for him. I don't really have any strong reads so I'm going to do alot of ISOs and post reads TONIGHT.

Guys I have plenty of energy for this. I am willing to do another round of these after more content is available, so dont worry.

Not comfortable voting yet. Especially looking at Shos, and Prolapse to respond, as they are my top 2 scum.

THIS IS A VOTECOUNT LOL

Prolapsed Brain (1): Beck
Desperado (1): Perfect Chaos
Shos (4): geraintm, DrPants, Aronis, BlueBloodedToffee
DrPants (2): theaceofspades, Shos
GrayFoxxxx (1): Desperado
Egg (1): DoubleTrouble


Not Voting: Prolapsed Brain, Egg, GrayFoxxxx
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, October 6 at 3:30 PM Eastern

Accuracy never guaranteed. But

probably

accurate.

I had to ISO majiffy, but I'm pretty sure GrayFox is your slot.

Heh.

[Green Crayons]

Something about BBT's play didn't sit right with me from my read through. It's like he's trying too hard to be open about his reads. That's the best way I can put it.

For example, his shift on the beck/ika slot doesn't look genuine. BBT had a strong town read on beck the entire game. ika makes a few flippant posts D2, and BBT votes ika right out of the gate in D3. And from then on he's been just dumping all over ika to further support his ika vote.

[Green Crayons]

@Doctor Who:

do any of the three sentences DT posted in Post 205 make sense to you?

[Green Crayons]

(You don't have to tell me which one.)

[Green Crayons]

@BBT:

yup, that's it. At least for now. I'm not really making a push for your vote atm, just throwing out something that stuck with me from my read through.

Also, I think ika's 1v1 isn't a good idea. Are 1v1's a thing that has become A Thing?

[Green Crayons]

@Doctor Who:

do any of the three sentences DT posted in Post 205 make sense to you?

... but there are more than three sentences in that post?!?

Were they claiming something?

I was talking about DT's three questions.

[Green Crayons]

I haven't liked this slot since I joined the game, if you remember.

Well that just means you've been bored since you've joined.

Why did you replace in if you didn't want to?

[Green Crayons]

@FF:

Green how do you feel about Desp's push on Perfect Chaos?

Frankly I'm not entirely sure about the whys behind Desp's PC push, and that makes me feel pretty neutral towards it in and of itself. Personally, I was town-reading PC during my read through (although I didn't care for some of his appeal to emotion defenses - such as the allusion to him being the innocent Frankenstein's monster harassed by the idiot villagers to the point of being unable to actually do scumhunting), so taking that into consideration I think Desp's PC push was not fruitful.


I just did a quick ISO of Desp and PC to rejog my memory, and here are my observations:

In Post 923, Desp specifically highlights that he's said he thinks PC is scum, but hasn't given a reason why. That's playing things pretty close to the chest, and I suppose is useful if you don't plan on replacing out. Oh well.

At first, I thought Desp's ploy was leading to something pretty good, because PC lashed out at these nonexistant reasons as "bullshit" (Post 922). A few sirens went off in my head about mindlessly attacking one's attacker without grounding it in reality. But then PC explained that he thought Desp's reasons were PC's bad jokes in Post 924, which is legit, because Desp's conversation with Nat was basically "hey PC might be scum because bad jokes" (Post 711, Post 714, and Post 728). So, fair. That would be a pretty bullshit reason to read someone as scum.

Things go downhill from there in terms of me understanding just what Desp is going on about. I don't understand Post 925, Post 927, and Post 929 at all. Desp tries to tie it together in Post 930, but it really falls flat: "you tried to previously address the fact that I was scum reading you because of bad jokes, and since you made that previous attempt you cannot now call that basis for a scum read bullshit"? That makes no sense, or at least none that I can divine, and Desp didn't really help us out with his thought process.


Desp's push sort of peters out after that, and pops back up briefly in Post 999. Desp's position here - that PC is now suspicious for having scumread Desp only after Desp scumread PC - makes logical sense if you think Desp believes his position to be reasonable. But as I pointed out above, Desp's basis of suspicion against PC is pretty bad, and so PC was objectively not in the wrong to suspect Desp for making a push on PC based on such reasons. It also doesn't help that Desp never really spells out what his unstated reasons were for suspecting PC.

CONCLUSION: 3/10 would not recommend

[Green Crayons]

@Nat:

what is it about this game that's boring you?

[Green Crayons]

Titus's activity in this game is on par with Titus's activity in other games from my direct observations.

[Green Crayons]

Titus says she watched one of the NK victims, and saw nobody. Suggests a ninja. Suggests Titus isn't that big of a threat to scum. Contrast with a confirmed town.

(shrug)

[Green Crayons]

Because:

Strongly implying a guilty on Desp here.

Let me be a little more direct. We were watching Egg last night.

Holding firm the team is Desp shos BBT. Good night.

~Trouble

Gotcha, PC.

Scum had a ninja but only scum would know that. I was watching Egg but I saw no one.

Only scum would know I would not have seen Egg's killer.

That took all of one post.

VOTE: Perfect Chaos

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: Nat

VOTE: BBT

I don't like his posting this game. I stand by what I said in Post 1426. He's trying too hard to look rational and spell out his positions, while using some pretty shaky logic to push his votes (e.g., looking at the wagon on a D1 town lynch without any flips, his basis for voting Ika in Post 1239 and Post 1242).

Also, I don't like his buddying with my slot when it was occupied by Desp. He found Desp to be incredibly town, and the votes on Desp to be incredibly scum, without justification.

[Green Crayons]

@FF:

so you're voting me because of my replacee's actions and because of complete conjecture about how Titus is actually scum.

Well, I've addressed your inquiry about Desp's actions, and you've ignored my commentary. So, thanks for making me do work that you decided to just ignore. Glad to know that your question to me was in fact pointless.

As for your conjecture, you appear to admit that Titus will be dead shortly via NK, and that her flipping green will disprove your theory that her being scum makes it more likely that I am scum. So you just want to skip that wait and go straight for me, which whether or not I flip green (I will) doesn't actually tell you anything about Titus - or anyone else for that matter.


Also your theory is bad. It's literally pure conjecture.

[Green Crayons]

Such as?

[Green Crayons]

lol

You could have told me that you were related to Desp. Here's my new answer to your question about why Desp was thinking you were scum: because he's your brother, and obviously thought that you were acting weird. Now I understand why Desp didn't feel the need to actually explain why he was scumreading you.

[Green Crayons]

Never said that Desp looks scummy, just explained that I disagreed with Desp's PC suspicions and I couldn't really figure out where they came from.

Now knowing that Desp and FF (who was part of the PC hydra) are brothers IRL, Desp's keeping the basis of his PC suspicions close to his chest make an incredible amount of sense.

[Green Crayons]

You were doing so good until you went conspiracy mode. I was convinced Desp was scum and faked a guilty on him since I should have had one.

Uh, this isn't what you did?

You said you watched the N1 NK, pointedly asked Desp a question, and he was like "I don't know what you're talking about."

[Green Crayons]

I don't like his posting this game. I stand by what I said in Post 1426. He's trying too hard to look rational and spell out his positions, while using some pretty shaky logic to push his votes (e.g., looking at the wagon on a D1 town lynch without any flips, his basis for voting Ika in Post 1239 and Post 1242).

I'm trying too hard to look rational...what sort of BS is that?

Good,

finally

DrPepper's mini ended. Basically, my only experience with town BBT is when I was a mason with him in Mini 1609. In that game, you were all over the place with your suspicions, accusations, and votes. Contrast with in this game, in which you appear to be taking a very measured tone.

It looks like you have drawn scum in this game, and are playing cautiously.

Would I also be scummy if I were to keep my reads close to my chest and not explain things?

Also, I don't like his buddying with my slot when it was occupied by Desp. He found Desp to be incredibly town, and the votes on Desp to be incredibly scum, without justification.

Oh wait... apparently yeah, I would.

So, I'm scummy for trying to be too open and rational and then I'm scummy for not explaining reads/reasoning.

That's contradictory and is awful reasoning for jumping on my wagon.

It's not contradictory at all. In general, you have been playing cautiously - as denoted by your insistance on taking a measured tone with trying to really spell out your justifications for suspecting/voting people.

In contrast, you have decided to buddy my slot. In this specific instance of potentially alignment-indicative play, you have failed to actually provide reasoning for why you have decided to buddy my slot. That look suspicious.

[Green Crayons]

You were doing so good until you went conspiracy mode. I was convinced Desp was scum and faked a guilty on him since I should have had one.

Uh, this isn't what you did?

You said you watched the N1 NK, pointedly asked Desp a question, and he was like "I don't know what you're talking about."

Revisited this line of posts between you and Desp. I see you did in fact outright state that you watched the N1 NK and that you were strongly implying that Desp is guilty (Post 577 and Post 583). But then Desp does say he doesn't know what you're talking about and that he's a VT (Post 584 and Post 585).

I'm confused about why you think your guilty fakeclaim actually suggests that Desp is actually scum. Taking a quick skim of your posts, it looks like this is just confirmation bias from you D1 suspicions of Desp. Yes/No?

[Green Crayons]

lol

Sorry that you're playing like cautious scum, directly opposite from how you played as mason before your reveal and how you played as confirmed town after I was killed.

Titus can chime in if she agrees or disagrees, as she was involved in that game as well.

[Green Crayons]

Yo I'm down for a Nati lynch, but when my vote was on her earlier today I'm pretty sure I was the only one?

@BBT:

your play looks like cautious scum because you have been very measured and focused in your scumreads. That looks quite different from your play in DrPepper's mini.

@Doctor Who:

it might benefit you to see who has flipped what as you're doing your reread. You've posted some comments (suggesting you're suspicious) to a confirmed town mason.

[Green Crayons]

@BBT:

Can anyone tell me why Desp is scum?

Getting tired of Ika dodging my question as well.

i already told you that most of my reads are gut calls and bouncing off people who i think are town.

your not going to get more then that untill i take action tonight

titus im just ingoring you b.c i know your scum now and if your town yous just stupid i have linked 2 games (ONE OF WHICH WE JUST RECENTLY FINISHED) where you did the same jack shit as scum

pedit: dealer, VT

Could you tease out more (beyond "reactions? pffft!" which I saw you post) your opinion on ika's explanation that the disparity between the bolded was that he was simply looking for reactions in Post 1082 when he talked about a night action?

Is this "slip" the only basis for you doing a 180 on the slot (previously filled by Beck)?

[Green Crayons]

You were very scattered shot in D2 and D3 of that mini, which is what I'm referring to - you were jumping back and forth between a set of players. It doesn't look a lot like your play here.

That said, I'm not super big on the power of meta, and I recognize a sample size of 2 games for a particular player's way of playing the game is not exactly stellar.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Nat

I'm actually feeling pretty adrift this game, without anything solid. That sucks.

[Green Crayons]

How useful to town is a mass claim with 9 players still alive?

I don't favor it, and I haven't seen anyone argue why it's a good idea.

[Green Crayons]

I'm fine with a massclaim, I guess. 7 person LYLO would be lolbad.

[Green Crayons]

b/c the irnory that GC votes BBT for being a scum but now sheeps him is really really stupid and scummy as hell

I was voting Nat before I was voting BBT, and my vote for BBT does not negate my continuing belief that Nat might be bored scum.

[Green Crayons]

I'm not familiar with scum being told VT flavor without the town being told as well (which I think is different from scum being given "free"/available fakeclaims by the mod, which I think is different).

So I believe shos.

I'm not familiar with commuter. Wiki says it's basically only a town role, so do Titus and ika think that BBT is a scum-commuter or just lying about his role?

[Green Crayons]

Where was all the righteous indignation when I pointed out that people slipped by claiming vt instead of vanilla townie? If we are assuming that people are conftown because of a dealer crumb then people would have to be confscum who couldn't claim correctly.

I'm going to assume you thought this was made sense, but I can assure you that it doesn't.

[Green Crayons]

seriously titus? this was like the first posts in the game. you're saying that scum got a vanilla PM pregame and town didn't? what kind of a mod gives scum the VT pm and doesn't publish it?

Town doesn't always get a VT PM. Scum would need safeclaims. Pretty obvious. Then you capitalize on the mod not doing that.

As someone who replaced into a VT slot, the PM that was messaged me most definitely included the details of the VT role. So town did get a VT PM in this game.

Unless you mean the thread didn't get the VT PM, but Majiffy decided to give the scum a safeclaim by giving them what a VT PM looked like? I suppose that's possible, but I don't know why you think it's more likely than the opposite: that nobody but town VT got a VT PM, and shos decided to crumb the VT role flavor early on.

[Green Crayons]

I mean I'm not going to sad if you lynch me today, I guess. I'm so out of touch at this point. @_@

I mean, it's obviously working for you because you're still alive, but this is so anti-town that it's scummy.

[Green Crayons]

Also I want Doctor Who to claim.

[Green Crayons]

@BBT:

Can anyone tell me why Desp is scum?

Getting tired of Ika dodging my question as well.

i already told you that most of my reads are gut calls and bouncing off people who i think are town.

your not going to get more then that untill i take action tonight

titus im just ingoring you b.c i know your scum now and if your town yous just stupid i have linked 2 games (ONE OF WHICH WE JUST RECENTLY FINISHED) where you did the same jack shit as scum

pedit: dealer, VT

I guess the biggest problem with me accepting that this is a slip from ika is the fact that it requires believing that, within the span of 40 posts and 12 hours, ika forgot what he posted in Post 1082.

[Green Crayons]

Think, how could scum fake claim vanilla townie if all the town were given the SAME vt pm without them having been provided it?

A mod wouldn't structure a setup where scum claiming vt would automatically be a scumclaim.

Therefore, scum knew all VTs were dealers.

Fair. I don't know how I was distinguishing between scum being given a safeclaim and scum being told the VT role (so that they could safeclaim VT).

[Green Crayons]

@BBT:

If ika is town, it means he was lying and trying to get reactions.

[Green Crayons]

Let's get a wagon going on Nati then.

This.


Also really interested in that Doctor Who claim.

[Green Crayons]

I'm VT

. All I can do is think and vote.

I want to go back to our exchange, which ended in Post 1440. Essentially, you were thought the back and forth between DT and egg was nonsensical -- including, particularly, this post:

@Egg, Going to dance here a bit. If you don't know what I am getting at, refuse to answer thisas being more obvious would be anti-town. Are you a split personality at night?

Counting cards or hacking machines, which is worse?

Which comes first waiting for the egg to hatch or chasing a chicken around? The answer to this will tell me if you arescum or not.

Now, when I was reading through the game, even though I'm only a dealer, the bolded sentence jumped out to me. The fact that Egg said that hacking machines is worse to him (Post 207) along with the fact that Egg stated he was an investigative role, in comparison to counting cards being "worse" for me as a VT dealer, made sense. That is, Egg's response helped cement to me that he was PR, because he did not answer with a vanialla dealer's response.

I find it odd that this didn't even blip on your radar, and instead was "nonsensical."

[Green Crayons]

@BBT: If ika is town, it means he was lying and trying to get reactions.

GC, I had you figured as strong town up until you decided to start defending ika.

I believe in this: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _All_Liars

ika lied, you can't be VT and have a night action.

Not seeing a scum slip =/= defending that player.

[Green Crayons]

1 mason being alive in a 7 person LYLO situation is not exactly a big deal for scum.

[Green Crayons]

This happened when I first replaced in and had just starting was reading the thread. Something seemed off, which is why I posted about it.

Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:17 pm <-started reading thread
Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:54 pm <- my post 1429, where I was confused. I had gotten through 210 posts in about 38 minutes. I am a slow reader.

That's great that you got something out one part of that post, the post as a whole didn't make sense to me. Ever get that feeling that you are missing something?

I know that's when you encountered that particular exchange between DT and Egg. I also encountered it after I replaced in and started reading the thread. However, even though we (supposedly) have the same role, the part of DT's question which specifically invoked our dealer flavor didn't ring any bells to you?

Also, I specifically asked you if you got anything out of any of the three questions DT asked Egg (Post 1431, Post 1432, and Post 1438). That includes DT's question about counting cards or hacking machines. I understand that you have repeatedly said that the entire post didn't make sense to you, but you specifically rejected the idea that any single question -- including the one that referenced our VT flavor -- made sense to you.

-----

Also, as an aside, it has not escaped my attention that Titus (1) was able to refence VT flavor in her veiled questions to Egg, (2) despite the fact that Titus does not have a VT Dealer rote, and (3) Titus has been the player pushing the possibility that scum would have gotten the VT flavor to have a safe claim.

@Titus:

have you claimed the name of your role?

[Green Crayons]

1 mason being alive in a 7 person LYLO situation is not exactly a big deal for scum.

better then 7p lylo with all unconfirmed?

Maybe, depending upon how killing someone outside of the watcher/mason duo plays out in terms of WIFOM and momentum the following day.

And, no, I'm not voting you. I'm voting nati and so should you.

[Green Crayons]

lol I don't know anything about casinos.

Do floor managers oversee the card tables or something?

[Green Crayons]

Also what is this "Floor Manager

I believe

" bit in Post 1597? Like, she wasn't certain that's what her role PM said, or she wasn't certain if that's how her role PM would fit into Doctor Who's three types of casino employees?

[Green Crayons]

lol

I'm somewhere?

[Green Crayons]

@shos:

I'm all down for suspecting Titus, but you really want to lynch a potential PR today?

[Green Crayons]

I know that's when you encountered that particular exchange between DT and Egg. I also encountered it after I replaced in and started reading the thread. However, even though we (supposedly) have the same role, the part of DT's question which specifically invoked our dealer flavor didn't ring any bells to you?

Also, I specifically asked you if you got anything out of any of the three questions DT asked Egg (Post 1431, Post 1432, and Post 1438). That includes DT's question about counting cards or hacking machines. I understand that you have repeatedly said that the entire post didn't make sense to you, but you specifically rejected the idea that any single question -- including the one that referenced our VT flavor -- made sense to you.

It didn't ring any bells for me. Isolating a portions of the post that I was confused about didn't help with my understanding. I had a lot to read up on, and figured that it would make itself known in due time. I also didn't pick up on shos softclaim. What is the point that you are trying to make out of this?

I just find it weird that if you are actually a VT, then when Player A asked Player B a series of questions intended to ferret out the role flavor of Player B, and one of those questions specifically referenced the VT flavor, this didn't ping your radar in the slightest.

[Green Crayons]

I don't know if she was specifically referencing the VT flavor, but it certainly looks that way from an outside perspective. Such as, say, a VT reading through the thread for the firsttime after replacing in.

Also, DT shouldn't have known the VT flavor at that point, so that's why I'm suspicious of her and her claim. I'd like to hear from Titus why she asked that particular question about counting cards versus slot machines, as well as the weird bit about her claim I noted earlier.

[Green Crayons]

Oh I'm going to Disney starting tomorrow, and won't be back until Sunday. Because I can, and because it will be fun, that's why.

So

V/LA from November 6 - 10

.

[Green Crayons]

Awesome, we have 2 players that will be vla until after deadline. Guys why not replace the fuck out?

lol

[Green Crayons]

"Hey guys you have lives happening and will be V/LA on this particular game day's deadline, and thus you should replace out. Ho hum but who cares about the perpetually lurking, non-contributing player Nati? Because I sure don't. One is definitely worse than the other buuuuuuut ... MEH."

- Signed, FF

[Green Crayons]

Look how cool I look phone posting.

[Green Crayons]

You're welcome, FF. Without my sarcasm pushing you over the edge, you'd never had made such a solid change in vote.

[Green Crayons]

Titus totally watched the NK, and got results, and no funny business, right?

[Green Crayons]

BBT, are you miffed I didn't give you props? Don't worry, you have strong town points for moving me back to the Nati vote. But, yeah, I

am

taking credit for pushing FF to the Nati vote. Feel free to explain how patting myself on the back is scummy.

Also, color me unsurprised that Titus's role didn't go through. No shit my post was shaded in such a way because it's complete BS. Giving scum a ninja to counteract an every-other-night town power makes that already weak town power completely useless. I've been feeling this way about Titus since yesterday (lol @ me being unable to have the same suspicions today as I did yesterday without being suspicious), I just thought it better to lynch a non-claimed power role at the time.

[Green Crayons]

The only thing I don't like about Ika is his repeated insistence that he would self hammer. His slot and his other play looks town to me.

-----

FF is also probably town, the most glaring indication being his left field conspiracy theory.

-----

I'm unsure about Doctor still. I still think it's weird that Titus's conversation with Egg, which talked about card cheating, didn't catch his attention and he instead actually said that it was nonsensical. Now that we know scum has the dealer flavor, this actually looks like Doctor purposefully distancing from that flavor (Doctor had no need to specifically highlight the Titus/Egg exchange).

-----

I'm actually less sure about shos now that we know that scum have the same flavor as VT. His early crumb is now null, as whether he'd down it as town or scum attempting to look like town is 50/50 WIFOM.

-----

I'll probably vote to lynch out of Titus, shos, or Doctor today. Will need to review play and think about things.

[Green Crayons]

I'm going to assume you thought this was made sense, but I can assure you that it doesn't.

I agree and I honestly do feel bad that I can't 'get in' to this game.

Why the fuck is Titus claiming more?

^perhaps this was anger at a scumbuddy?

Anger directed at whom? Nati's comment didn't make a lick of sense, because my 1667 was directed to

FF

's Post 1655. (Which is incredibly incoherent.)

[Green Crayons]

Oh. I wasn't sure if he was talking about my question, and therefore was looking at me or FF.

[Green Crayons]

^^ "my question" = "my comment to FF"

[Green Crayons]

I'm rereading DT's fake guilty claim on Desp and it's just so... weird, for lack of a better term, for something scum would do.

@BBT:

nobody is joining you on ika. Who else are you looking at?

[Green Crayons]

Bah. Have been mulling the Titus bit over, and though I'm a bit gunshy about it, I think it's probably the best lynch at the moment.

[Green Crayons]

Bah. Have been mulling the Titus bit over, and though I'm a bit gunshy about it, I think it's probably the best lynch at the moment.

Who else are you willing to look at? You're clearly having second thoughts about this lynch so let's look elsewhere.

Titus, shos, and Doctor Who were the three I was willing to lynch today.

[Green Crayons]

Titus, shos, and Doctor Who were the three I was willing to lynch today.

This post is so conveniently timed.

Hey go fly a kite or read the thread.

First post of today's game day:

The only thing I don't like about Ika is his repeated insistence that he would self hammer. His slot and his other play looks town to me.

-----

FF is also probably town, the most glaring indication being his left field conspiracy theory.

-----

I'm unsure about Doctor still. I still think it's weird that Titus's conversation with Egg, which talked about card cheating, didn't catch his attention and he instead actually said that it was nonsensical. Now that we know scum has the dealer flavor, this actually looks like Doctor purposefully distancing from that flavor (Doctor had no need to specifically highlight the Titus/Egg exchange).

-----

I'm actually less sure about shos now that we know that scum have the same flavor as VT. His early crumb is now null, as whether he'd down it as town or scum attempting to look like town is 50/50 WIFOM.

-----

I'll probably vote to lynch out of Titus, shos, or Doctor today. Will need to review play and think about things

.

[Green Crayons]

^^ Correction, not first post of today's game day (memory was mixed up about when I posted this), but definitely early in today's game day.

[Green Crayons]

Lol. Yes shos you're confused.

I call bullshit on you being willing to lynch shos GC. You haven't put a lot in the way of him being scummy here.

I call bullshit on you being very good at making good cases Titus. This requires me to actually put in work to read through people's play, which I haven't had the time/energy to do w/r/t shos yet.

[Green Crayons]

Hey look I read this whole thread. Give me an award.


VOTE: Nati, on the theory of her being bored scum.


Not particularly pleased with it, but I'll need to do extra reading beyond a single read through to have something better.

Bus vote. I am not pleased with voting my buddy and I will jump on anything else that I can.

^^^ That is the translation.

Congratulations. That was indeed my first vote of the game. You have successfully read only part of the thread. That makes you only partially successful at making any sense.

A lot of time passed from my Nati vote in 1390, and I then unvoted Nati, and switched my vote to BBT in Post 1493. A lot more time pasted, and then BBT and I talked about voting Nati, and which point I switched back to my Nati vote:

You were very scattered shot in D2 and D3 of that mini, which is what I'm referring to - you were jumping back and forth between a set of players. It doesn't look a lot like your play here.

That said, I'm not super big on the power of meta, and I recognize a sample size of 2 games for a particular player's way of playing the game is not exactly stellar.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Nat

I'm actually feeling pretty adrift this game, without anything solid. That sucks.

At BBT's urging, I thought a Nati vote was the best of some pretty bleak options. BBT followed my vote shortly thereafter, and that got the foundation of the Nati wagon established.

[Green Crayons]

My two acceptable votes I independently was fine with were Nati and BBT. After some convo with BBT I went with the Nati wagon. Nothing else was better, before or after that decision, and thus I stuck with the Nati vote. I even poked at FF to get him to join the Nati wagon.

You're just making up a narrative of my actions to fit your conclusion that I'm scum, which is a conclusion based on the narrative that you made up. It's really bad circular logic.

[Green Crayons]

ika, tell me your thoughts on Doctor.

[Green Crayons]

We're in a 2/5 LYLO situation, yes?

[Green Crayons]

Also, ika, have you said why you think BBT is scum, or is it just that he has fixated on you?

[Green Crayons]

ika, tell me your thoughts on Doctor.

you first, really VCA directly points towards your slot as well as natis post

I've already stated my thoughts about Doctor (other relevant posts include Post 1722, Post 1734, and Post 1764):

The only thing I don't like about Ika is his repeated insistence that he would self hammer. His slot and his other play looks town to me.

-----

FF is also probably town, the most glaring indication being his left field conspiracy theory.

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I'm unsure about Doctor still. I still think it's weird that Titus's conversation with Egg, which talked about card cheating, didn't catch his attention and he instead actually said that it was nonsensical. Now that we know scum has the dealer flavor, this actually looks like Doctor purposefully distancing from that flavor (Doctor had no need to specifically highlight the Titus/Egg exchange).

-----

I'm actually less sure about shos now that we know that scum have the same flavor as VT. His early crumb is now null, as whether he'd down it as town or scum attempting to look like town is 50/50 WIFOM.

-----

I'll probably vote to lynch out of Titus, shos, or Doctor today. Will need to review play and think about things.

[Green Crayons]

I'm specifically asking you because I think you are the most likely town player.

[Green Crayons]

Who has a VT dealer role. So I want your input regarding Doctor's weird reaction to the Titus/Egg conversation that appeared to implicate the VT dealer role.

[Green Crayons]

@ika:

Post 1429, Post 1440, Post 1722, Post 1734, and Post 1764.

If you tell me it's a bad line of suspicion, I'll drop it.

[Green Crayons]

We're in a 2/5 LYLO situation, yes?

Why wouldn't this be obvious to you? After all, you saw the "dealer" in Titus post that you are trying to hang me with. I'm town - I saw something that I didn't understand so I asked. Would scum put things do such a thing?

So by your own logic, should we all suspect you for asking if we are in LYLO?

This is you trying to amp up suspicions of me posting stream of conscious thoughts.

[Green Crayons]

(As opposed to the substance of those thoughts, which is what is suspicious about your posts.)

[Green Crayons]

GC - bogus case on me

(and since Titus was town, how could Titus directly have asked about being a dealer),

brings up how he suspected me along with Titus and shos. That's 0 for 3, with 0 for 2 confirmed.

lol

This is a great way to try to spin the situation. The point is that Titus's comment about cheating at cards implicates the dealer flavor - which was obviously inadvertent on Titus's behalf because she wasn't scum or a VT dealer. Regardless of the inadvertent nature of Titus's comment, however, the implication relating to dealer is still there.

[Green Crayons]

@ika:

I did a quick skim of shos last posts of the game after the day started, and caught the same post (there's another as well) suspecting FF. Nobody else seems to have been suspecting FF, and both Titus and I had gone so far as to say that FF was in the town column, so a bit of NK WIFOM makes me suspicious of him.

Will ISO and get back to you with further thoughts.

[Green Crayons]

I'm not typically fond of NK analysis, but shos kill is actually perplexing. Titus went out saying that everyone should look at shos today. BBT said that he was willing to vote shos. I said I was willing to vote shos. Why wouldn't scum leave such red meat alive unless if it was to protect themselves from shos' suspicion?

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Revisted this in the ISO:

Hold up. So you saw Desp visit Egg when no one else did?

Beck, are you fucking dense? DT already went down the road that you are going down and came to the correct conclusion, that they misread what I wrote fitting what they were looking for.

My question may not have been formed in the best way, so I'll rephrase so you can understand it better. I asked if they saw Desp visit Egg when no one else did.

What that means is "You (DT) are claiming to have watched Egg last night. You say that you have a guilty (basically) on Desp as a result. So I want to clarify that you saw Desp and no one else visit Egg last night."

Does that make it easier for you to understand.

Jesus, in every game I play as town I either get accused of being the most manipulative scum player ever or a fucking moron.

Bolded: Noooooope. Doesn't match up.
Italics: ATE

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I think its hilarious your hydra partner has to come rescue you. Now I'm more sure than I already was

Did you just break the ceiling and find a level of more assuredness than 100%. You know what, Metal, we have to give in to this guy. He is now more than 100% sure that we are scum, and he would know because he has been around for so long and has played so many games with us to know that we are scum with more than 100% certainty.

Beck, you do know how hydras work right? We both post from the same account, talk to each other about the game, and play together. Yet you find something scummy in the other half of our little duo posting when we are right in the middle of what is currently going on. You sir are the donkey at the table trying to push around a huge stack bluffing the whole way. Well, I will tell you this, we have the nuts and you are going to lose if you call us on it.

Oh man this looks like taunting a town.

[Green Crayons]

I paused my ISO review because yawn.

What do you think about Fish, specifically his Nati vote?

From my POV, if there was a bus on Nati it was either BBT or FF. I doubt it was BBT because he was the one who actually convinced me to get back to the Nati vote. So if there was a bus on Nati, FF is it.

[Green Crayons]

Tell you what though, I will help bus Desp. He has to be scum here

.

Vote: Desp

If this is the game that you act scummy as fuck as town to fuck with my read on you, then brafuckingvo bro.

Setting up my slot to get some votes if FF flips scum.

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Just hit the part where FF is all "Desp is scummy because he hasn't really stated his suspicions on me." Reminded me that Desp and FF are IRL bros and Desp's unstated suspicions are likely based on that. I'm sending a time-traveling high five to Desp to thank himi for his IRL insight.

-----

Weird interaction with Nati in Post 992, Post 993, Post 994, and 995, where FF asks Nati her thoughts on Desp, Nati says that she finds Desp pretty suspicious, FF asks Nati to vote Desp, and then Nati declines. Three possible justifications for Nati's actions: (1) I'm her scummate, and she didn't want to bus; (2) FF is her scummate, and she didn't want to look too cozy with a scummate; or (3) Nati didn't want to have to do shit in this game and thought lurking was the best tactic.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah but what if you two are the last two scum and I'm just being played?

[Green Crayons]

Tourist - 2-Shot Commuter.

does anyone else see the underlying problem that i have with a "tourist"

Ugh, but so credited.

[Green Crayons]

The Commuter is a role that "leaves Town" each Night

, thus making them ineligible to be targeted by Night actions. By extension, they cannot use any Night actions they may have.

Because they cannot use Night actions, almost all Commuters are pro-Town.

It is worth noting that because in flavor it physically leaves the game for the Night instead of being protected somewhere in Town, Commuter is considered the ultimate in Untargetability, trumping even things like Strongman.

lol, this might be a bit much.

But. "Tourist" implies BBT is visiting our casino. A tourist isn't a permanent residence of the town/casino. And "leaving town" in this game would actually be leaving the casino. So a tourist wouldn't "leave <the casino>" every so often, because a tourist actually

visits

the casino. A tourist leaves his town in bumblefuck America to visit the casino.

The directional aspect of the flavor and the mechanics are backwards.

[Green Crayons]

I am not scum, you are just going to have to believe me on this.

Who is scum?

[Green Crayons]

Despslot scum would equal you scum as well

Unless if this is your scum team?

[Green Crayons]

Follow me boys!

Vote BBT

Oh shit I just realized this is FF and not Doctor.

[Green Crayons]

What about a lack of a cross vote troubles you?

[Green Crayons]

Follow me boys!

Vote BBT

Oh shit I just realized this is FF and not Doctor.

I was mostly just seeing Doctor and ika post at this time, and I didn't realize that FF had actually joined in, and thought that this post was Doctor's.

[Green Crayons]

Well the only thing against BBT is his role, frankly.

shos' suspicions, FF's looks-like-a-bus vote, and his not awesome ISO makes him the more likely scum candidate.


I've got plans this evening, so I'll try to check in, but my vote will be going onto FF unless if some crazy revelation pops up that I catch when phone skimming.

[Green Crayons]

@ika:

at this point, it's FF and Doctor.

I guess there's a non-zero chance that FF and BBT are both scum, but I don't think that's the likely situation.

[Green Crayons]

Or I am right and you are scum. Different strokes.

Given you didn't even realise the situation we were in, I find it hard to see that coming from a town perspective.

I'd be interested in you teasing this out a bit more. I don't quite follow.

[Green Crayons]

Oh shit I just realized this is FF and not Doctor.

This from the guy who suspects me for reading comprehension.

lol

Spin and misrepresentation.

[Green Crayons]

Right, so it's basically setup (BBT) versus play (FF).

I don't forsee any new developments. I'll be voting FF later today/tomorrow after I give BBT and FF another ISO review.

[Green Crayons]

I skimmed it and nothing new.

Ika, you ready for lynching FF, or is there anything else?

[Green Crayons]

Sigh. Fingers crossed.

VOTE: FF

[Green Crayons]

Well shit.

[Green Crayons]

I knew you were scum, but didn't think it was BBT.

[Green Crayons]

GC when are you going to stop fucking lylo up?

lol

Sorry your play looked scummy and BBT's did not.

[Green Crayons]

i want dr to post his vote tbh but im all for it as well.

i see 2 possible scum teams remaining

you/BBT
or
FF/DR

if its the 2 of you guys, well gg if not i know where my vote will go tommorow

He was for your lynch.

[Green Crayons]

I was thinking of voting Doctor today, but that would have still put us at BBT v. FF come tomorrow. If I was last alive with those two (presumably BBT would have killed you because of y'all's history in this game, plus my indications that I found him to be more town than FF), I'd probably have voted FF anyways and we'd still have lost.

[Green Crayons]

yes i do bbt i was going to vote dr and

you do have a major diffrence in your townvs scm play as well

Credited:

Something about BBT's play didn't sit right with me from my read through. It's like he's trying too hard to be open about his reads. That's the best way I can put it.

For example, his shift on the beck/ika slot doesn't look genuine. BBT had a strong town read on beck the entire game. ika makes a few flippant posts D2, and BBT votes ika right out of the gate in D3. And from then on he's been just dumping all over ika to further support his ika vote.

UNVOTE: Nat

VOTE: BBT

I don't like his posting this game. I stand by what I said in Post 1426. He's trying too hard to look rational and spell out his positions, while using some pretty shaky logic to push his votes (e.g., looking at the wagon on a D1 town lynch without any flips, his basis for voting Ika in Post 1239 and Post 1242).

Also, I don't like his buddying with my slot when it was occupied by Desp. He found Desp to be incredibly town, and the votes on Desp to be incredibly scum, without justification.

If only I listened to myself. *fist shake*

[Green Crayons]

Yeah I thought it was a good setup. The tracker/watcher being completely nullified by the ninja was probably the most biased part of the setup, because it really laid the groundwork for an easy mislynch. Everything else looks golden.

Was almost a town win, too. Just couldn't figure out BBT v. FF correctly.

[Green Crayons]

The tracker/watcher being completely nullified by the ninja was probably the most biased part of the setup, because it really laid the groundwork for an easy mislynch.

Though thinking back on it, I don't think any of the scum pushed this line of reasoning? So really it just allowed us wildly imaginative VTs to get the better of ourselves.