Mini 458 - Game over!

[Kate]

/confirm

[Kate]

Vote:ThAdmiral

For having a creepy avatar

[Kate]

We have no info to go on

Agreed.

Unvote

[Kate]

There really isn't a good reason, at least not at this point in the game. Why not just unvote?

[Kate]

J-man & molestargazer were the last to confirm, which to me means that they are the most likely to have been engaging in PMs before game start

.


Thats a bit unfair to people with odd time zones.

Or theywere just last by chance. In my old game I was last to confirm, but I was the cop.

[Kate]

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
About the whole lurking thing, just because you're not talking as much, doesn't mean you're scum, maybe you're just busy or don't have anything to say about what's going on.
I think Adel is more suspicious in my eyes, how before it seemed he was pushing to kill the lurkers, and looks like he wants bandwagons:

Especially since J-man was the biggest promoter of a pro-town tactic that would quickly identify dylan41985 as potential scum. If dylan was scum planning on lurking into day 2 and beyond, a bandwagon on J-man would provide his best cover... so when J-man identifies him as a lurker is would seem OMGUSy.

Huh. I just sold myself on that theory.

unvote:molestargazer

vote:dylan41985for lurking and casting a suspect vote.

This was right after pickemgenius said something about dylan. And Adel's reasoning didn't seem very good, it seems to me he keeps saying people are scum because of what they will do in the future; that doesn't count as proof. However, what what's-his-face(dylan-something) did was pretty scummy, the way he just dropped in and voted without much reasoning, but I still think Adel is more scum.

Vote:Adel

[Kate]

So Kate doesn't like the size of a bandwagon on J-man. But she also doesn't like my rationale for defending him. She thinks the person I voted for did something pretty scummy, but I get her vote anyway. For jumping on a "bandwagon" by casting the second vote. When someone else is -2 to lynch.

If there is logic in that argument, could someone explain it to me? It seems really inconsistent to me.

I never said anything about you defending him, I don't even remember you defending J-man. Yes, I do think the person you voted was scummy, but I still think you are scummier, by the way, with all the "WIFOM" and "BM" stuff, can you guys stop talking like idiots, 'cuz I can't understand anything that's going on when you guys talk like that...

[Kate]

I've only played in one other game, and WIFOM is used alot, however I still don't know what it means or any of the other crap you guys say

And if you did defend J-man, I don't remember, but never said you didn't or said I didn't like your reasoning for it. Actually, I never even mentioned you while I was talking about him, I only said we were stupid for putting him at -2 to lynch.

[Kate]

While however unsmart it may be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

So how will you know whether he's town or not? If he is town, he'll most likely defend himself or say, "Hey, kill me if you want but I hope you all die!", if he's mafia, he'll probably do the same, unless he decides to fake claim as cop or doc, but if he

were

the cop or doc, he would still claim.

[Kate]

I would like J-Man to claim.

This is really stupid, if he's a doc or cop, he might claim, if he's mafia, he'll still probably claim cop or doc, or claim vanilla, like he did. If he's a normal townie, he'll claim vanilla like he did.

So asking him to claim, we'll either get a doc, cop, or townie. But we'll actually never know, so what's the point?

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm because i know that since i am a vannilla townie i really dont have a whole lot of use to you guys,

Saying you were going to fake-claim is extremely stupid. Doing that will most likely get you lynched if someone counter claims.

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

I don't know if I believe him, he's either scum, or an innocent townie.

Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?

I don't really think so, maybe he wasn't really thinking when he said that at first, and you can't blame him for saying not to lynch him, no one

wants

to be lynched, mafia nor town.

[Kate]

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

No i think that he is the cop/doc but doesn't want to revel that to the mafia who he really is.

What makes you think he's the cop or doc?

[Kate]

Because if he was Cop/doc wouldn't he say that he was normal so that if we dont lynch him the mafia won't kill him.

Yes, but if he were mafia he would say he was normal, and if he was normal, he would say he was normal. So with that, we only know he's mafia, normal town, or cop/doc...we really don't know.

[Kate]

In this case it is true that we did not gain much information by him claiming vanilla townie, but at least we know that if he is lynched we wont be hitting a power role.

But we don't know he's not a power role. He could be cop, he said he wouldn't claim until at least -1, and might not want to come out as cop yet, if he comes out then the doc will have to protect him and a townie WILL die tonight.

He could also be a doc, you never mentioned a doc. If he's a doc, then if he came out he would die tonight, unless doc can self-protect, but I don't think they can.

[Kate]

I think claiming at -1 is a bad idea, if you're not on when you get lynched, and don't have time to claim, you're dead, you lost your chance.

I don't think it's that fair to MoS either, he did ask for J'man to claim, but it's probably just a stupid mistake...however, it does seem a little scummy.

About J-man claiming, how earlier he said he wouldn't claim until -1 seemed a bit odd, maybe he has a power-role, but doesn't want to say it 'till he's at -1...like right now. But Adel putting him at -1 is pretty dumb, it seems like he's pushing J-man to come out as a doc or cop, which is extremely stupid to do on the first day, or else he's trying to break him down as scum, but what if he's really an average townie? Then what? There's actually nothing he can really do...

[Kate]

In this case it is true that we did not gain much information by him claiming vanilla townie, but at least we know that if he is lynched we wont be hitting a power role.

But we don't know he's not a power role. He could be cop, he said he wouldn't claim until at least -1, and might not want to come out as cop yet, if he comes out then the doc will have to protect him and a townie WILL die tonight.

He could also be a doc, you never mentioned a doc. If he's a doc, then if he came out he would die tonight, unless doc can self-protect, but I don't think they can.

a) The mafia may still try to hit him if he's cop in the hope that the doc isn't paying attention, or whatever, and fail.
b) In some games doc's can protect themselves, in other games they can't. Regardless if he claims doc, and that he can protect himself, the mafia are put in a situation where they can risk hitting him and hope he's lying or hit someone else. If he claims cop and that he can't protect himself the mafia once again have to consider whether they should hit him or not, because theirs a chance he's lying and can protect himself.

This is true, but not most likely to happen, usually the doc will have to protect the cop while mafia kill another townie, when the docdidn't have a chance of saving them.
Also, in some games the doc can't self-protect. So if you push him to come out and he's doc, we're pretty much screwed, and we lose our doc


Also, are you changing your mind about the power roles?

[Kate]

Also, are you changing your mind about the power roles?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

I was just joking, what I meant was that at first you said we know he's not a power role, but then later started saying he might be.

[Kate]

i don't really think scum would say they would kill themselves in 24 hours, however townies feeling under stress might, maybe he jst doesnt want to be lynched on day one and wants to get out of the game. But he could still be mafia trying to trick us into thinking he's a helpless town...i don't know

I don't like how it seems J-man keeps implying that he's a power role, even at one to lynch he said:

i am going to post my full defence in 6 hours time if still at -1 to lynch you guys better be sure this is what you want by then.

This is just stupid, it sounds like you're trying to sayyou're a power role or something and, like Adel said, blackmail the town.

the defence behind the hinting about a power role is this, i was hoping that you guys would move on with out moving to the point that if i was i would have to claim.

I don't like this, you keep pretending you're important to get votes off you, stupid newbie mistake maybe, but I think you've done it another time too.

[Kate]

I would like J-Man to claim.

This is really stupid, if he's a doc or cop, he might claim, if he's mafia, he'll still probably claim cop or doc, or claim vanilla, like he did. If he's a normal townie, he'll claim vanilla like he did.

So asking him to claim, we'll either get a doc, cop, or townie. But we'll actually never know, so what's the point?

Would you rather he be lynched without claiming? If claiming is really such a bad idea, why does it get done in every game on this site? Why has such a precedent been set if claiming is stupid?

Claiming does get done in...almost every game on this site, i don't think it's every, but they usually don't happen on the first day, the point is that it's stupid to put someone at -1, and say "I want you to claim". What if they're an innocent vanilla townie? They really can't claim then, what if they're mafia? they'll say they're townie, what if copor doc? they'll come out, but we won't get any info and they could die tonight.

What i'm saying, is that there's no point in

trying

to get people to claim on the 1st day.[/u]

[Kate]

So, you're asserting that nearly every game on this site lynches someone Day 1 without that person claiming? Or are you saying they always no lynch on the first day, so that no one has to claim? And if they no lynch, what makes Day 2 any different? You don't have any information from the lynch, and some people died.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense to want to get someone to claim, I'm not saying anything about a no-lynch, no lynches are stupid, my point is that if you tell someone to claim, you're not going to get any info, at least none you're sure of, you actually said it yourelf, what i've been saying:

Claiming has to be done to gain information on scummy players. If they are townie, they should claim townie, although there are other strategies that I won't go into at this time. If they are scum, they can fakeclaim whatever they like. We'll figure out soon enough if they're scum. If they're doc, they should probably claim something else. If they're cop, they might as well claim rather than be lynched, because the doc can protect them at night.

I've been saying about what they'll claim the whole time, when they do claim, we won't know what they are, normal townies will claim townie, mafia will most likely claim normal townie, cop will claim cop, and doc will claim townie, so we know J-man, for instance, is either scum, a doc, or a regular townie. Tell me how this helped us.

[Kate]

ok, i read wat WIFOM means, thanks to Adel, but its used SO much, but still don't really know what the heck anyone's talking about

So how will you know whether he's town or not? If he is town, he'll most likely defend himself or say, "Hey, kill me if you want but I hope you all die!", if he's mafia, he'll probably do the same, unless he decides to fake claim as cop or doc, but if he were the cop or doc, he would still claim.

WIFOM, in my humble opinion.

So are you saying i wrote this when i was drunk or something? My point is that we'll never know wat he is by forcing him to claim, he might be lying, he might be telling the truth, i've been saying this over and over again, but apparently no one's listening.

Tell me how this helped us.

Increase in information. No more needs to be said.

Maybe you didn't understand when i said

tell me

how this helped us...

[Kate]

First off, cop/doc/scum/townie are not necessarily the only roles I have. I just used them as examples because you did. Secondly, we gain information. We can see if his actions fit with the role he's had, we can decide if we think the possibility of his role being useful outweighs leaving him alive if he is scum. We gain a lot of things from a claim.

You can gain alot of things from a claim, but people lie in this game. People lie and it's alot harder to tell when they are and when they aren't. You're not playing with them face-to-face, so it's alot easier for them to lie and you believe them, or for you to not believe them and lynch wrong. So really, you don't always gain things from a claim.

[Kate]

Kate- doesn't like J-man bandwagon. Doesn't think lurking=scum.Thinks Adel is suspicous because it looked like she wanted to kill the lurkers. Doesn't like reasoning behing dylan vote. Doesn't like claiming. Doesn't know whether or not to believe J-man claim.Doesn't like how J-man keeps hinting at a power role. MOS and Kate get in playstyle debate. I'm not sure, I think that Kate is town, but there is a little part in me that says the other. She is pretty focused on Adel.

hmmm, i don't like the J-man wagon? i don't actually remember saying that. i don't remember saying scum doesn't lurk either, though i may have said it doesn't ALWAYS mean they're scum. i thought adel was suspicious for wanting to kill lurkers before, not too sure any more. i don't even remember the dylan vote. i don't like trying to force someone to claim on day one. evrything else you said is basically true.

i'm surprised the j-man wagon seemed to stop, now mainly the only people still voting are those who haven't talked in such a long time...

i thought it was odd that adel asked pickem about j-man, and then brought up me. y not ask the whole town? i don't think they wold be scum together though, just too obvious, but still a bit odd, maybe i just don't like that he brought up me

[Kate]

I find the interaction between Kate and pickemgenuis interesting.

Kate: I would like to see you ask pickemgenuis more questions. What would be so obvious about an Adel&pickemgenuis scumpair?

I think me and pickem are basically the same as me and anyone else, you asked him what he thought of me, he answered you with some incorrect statements, i corrected them. how is that interesting?

why would u like me to ask him more questions? i really don't have much to ask, it's weird to want someone to ask someone things, IMO, anyway.

what would be obvious for an Adel&pickemgenius scumpair, is that scum wouldn't just ask their buddy in front of everyone else what they think about someone.

[Kate]

i REALLY REALLY want to vote pickem but instead i will FOMajorS:pickem

you can't just jump on a forming bandwagon (clearly jumping on as it forms since you posted twice after Dylan but before your vote) and it clear that you had read up to that point atleast because you responded to MoS... your definatly pouring out scummy vibes over here.

and not to ignore the dylan fiasco :S wth are you on... your not this inactive in other games... so why this one he definatly lurking why? idk im pretty sure ive got my scum pinned down but this is making me rethink everything. so yea Dylan IGMEOY

J-man, what's holding you back from voting him? i honestly don't think pickem's that scummy, he thought dylan was scummy, (so does pretty much everyone else ) and he voted him like the other 3 people, puting dylan at -3, not exactly something to worry about.

what's up with dylan? what i think is weird, is that he posted after he found out he had 4 votes, and he did this before, but he hasn't explained himself at all.

[Kate]

seriously dylan, explain yourself.

[Kate]

Also: hooray for contributing!

Yaaayyy!

But seriously, I don't think pickem did anything scummy. And Adel isn't seeming so scum-like either, so...

unvote

[Kate]

Adel, I don't know what I just said that made you vote for me. you know this is one of my first games

We have told you many times to do so, yet you still won't explain yourself at all. I'm with Adel.

Vote:dylan41985

J-man: I don't think you've earned the right yet to say someone else sucks. Just sayin'.

lol

[Kate]

Numenorean7, enjoyed reading your brief analysis (even though it does target me). I hope it is not some grand mafia trick to divert our eyes from you. But you are a replacement like me, so I doubt you are mafia. At any rate, your post made me go back and look at everyone…Kate is setting off my scum vibe so I thought it was funny that she did yours as well (underneath my apparent scumminess, of course) I do not like when people use older games as defenses, she IS unpleasant, and she defends one of the town’s scummiest looking (J-Man). But doesn’t have a problem putting away Dylan…Is there a Kate + J-Man connection? Numenorean7, you have indirectly made me look at J-man again…at any rate, I think it would be worth a Kate vote…to see her reaction.

i don't remember using any older games as a defense, this is actually only my second game on the site. I don't think i was defending J-man, i just didn't like the idea of forcing someone to claim. Dylan wasn't in much danger, if i voted J-man he would've been dead.

Kate
Kate has been very unpleasent. Refuses to learn MafiaScum terminology and insults us for doing so. Rather hostile. Again, perhaps just playstyle, but I have a negative intuition on her.

I refuse to learn mafiascum terminology, and insult you? Isn't that FoSing? I may be mistaken, but I don't recall

refusing

or

insulting

about anything.

About Dylan, I don't like that he lurks and then votes someone, and after we've said to explain himself, he doesn't and just votes someone else. I really don't like his attitude, and like curious said, he's probably just not interested and bored, though if he is, he should ask to be replaced or just stop talking until he gets replaced.

[Kate]

i don't remember using any older games as a defense, this is actually only my second game on the site. I don't think i was defending J-man,

Well let me refresh your memory. In post 57 you reference an old game and defend J-man

In my old game I was last to confirm, but I was the cop.

and here again, you help him in post 113

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
About the whole lurking thing, just because you're not talking as much, doesn't mean you're scum, maybe you're just busy or don't have anything to say about what's going on.
I think Adel is more suspicious in my eyes, how before it seemed he was pushing to kill the lurkers, and looks like he wants bandwagons:

You keep defending him in post 122, 136 (later in the post), 155...and on and on.

it was a pain to go back and read those posts...so please next time you lie, make it a good one.

Me using an old game was a really example. Besides, other people have been using examples alot, why focus on me when it wasn't even serious? We were still random voting then.

My post 113, I was giving my opinion about lurking, not j-man, i said before that i just didn't think you were always scum if you lurked, i've changed my mind about that now, but that was just what i thought.

I went back and read those posts you said i defended j-man in, 122, 136, and 155, which i'm guessing you mean 156. 122 and 156 aren't right, however 136 is fair.

While however unsmart it may be for J-man to be at L-2 relatively early, it's not a bad thing really, it's building pressure and is giving him a chance to defend himself, so we can have a logical decision on wheter or not he is or is not scum.

So how will you know whether he's town or not? If he is town, he'll most likely defend himself or say, "Hey, kill me if you want but I hope you all die!", if he's mafia, he'll probably do the same, unless he decides to fake claim as cop or doc, but if he were the cop or doc, he would still claim.

This was number 122, and wasn't about j-man. Any posts about claiming and stuff are about how i don't like the whole claiming idea, not about making any specific person to claim, just forcing to claim in general.

This is true, but not most likely to happen, usually the doc will have to protect the cop while mafia kill another townie, when the docdidn't have a chance of saving them.
Also, in some games the doc can't self-protect. So if you push him to come out and he's doc, we're pretty much screwed, and we lose our doc


Also, are you changing your mind about the power roles?

This is also about claiming, just like I said before. Not J-man, just the idea of wanting someone to claim.

I'm considering moving my vote to Kate. curiouskarmadog is looking a little better: he hasn't panicked under suspicion, for one thing. But Kate is looking worse and worse. I agree with Adel, her next reply should be interesting.

I'm looking worse and worse yet i've only posted once since i was under real suspicion, and I really don't believe that looks panicky. I said i don't remember refering to older games, defending j-man, and that i didn't know what you meant when you said i was refusing to learn mafiascum terminology and i thought i never insulted anyone. Go back and read it, its not panicky.

IMHO, this is refusing to learn terminology and insulting those who do, plus being overly irritable.

The first one was meant to be more jokish, i didn't mean anyone was actually an idiot. Now tell me how this is refusing to learn, i asked four times and didn't get an answer until the last time, i looked it up and it didn't make sense so i asked again, this isn't refusing to learn, this is trying.

[Kate]

Me using an old game was a really example.

Sorry, really

bad

example

[Kate]

Me using an old game was a really example.

Sorry, really

bad

example

[Kate]

Here's an example of a WIFOM situation:

Scum are trying to decide who to night-kill. There is one player (call him X) who was onto one of the scum (call him Y), and had been pushing for his lynch. The scum don't want Y lynched, so they decide to get rid of X.
"But wait," one of them says, "If we kill X, everyone will know that Y is one of us, and he'll be lynched."
"Ah, yes," another one says, "But this town is pretty tricky. They'll see that X died and think that Y is an innocent townie we're trying to frame. Killing X would be the ideal way to defend Y."

So now answer this question. If the scum kill X, would a townie see Y as more likely or less likely to be scum because of it? In the end, it gives no meaningful information about Y's alignment. Herein lies the WIFOM dilemma. A phenomenon leads to a conclusion, but this conclusion would have been foreseen, so the opposite must be true, and so on ad infinitum.

Understand?

Oh! WIFOM, I can clearly not choose the Wine In Front Of Me, why didn't you just say the Princess Bride? That would've made alot more sense.

I don't like how we're kinda letting J-man and dylan off the hook. J-man was almost gone, he posted a poor defense, but he's good. Dylan was almost gone, but he refused to even explain himself until we explained why we voted him (whick I believe was already mentioned before), and after that, he posted again, but still never explained himself.

[Kate]

Really, I just checked, J-man voted MoS on page 6, and was the only one voting him up 'till page 11, when NabNab voted him.

^^ Doesn't the Wiki mention Princess Bride. Go back and check it again, because I think somebody recently updated that article. They might have made it more confusing, but at least they added Vazini (no idea how to spell it).

Oh yeah it does, sorry, i must've missed that

[Kate]

I'm not defending J-man, I'm accusing NabNab.

[Kate]

I'm very sorry NabNab, but i truley wasn't trying to defend j-man

do you honestly think we are gong to believe that you are not defending j-man in that post? Please do not make me break this down AGAIN for you. I think it is also pretty scummy that you keep defending him (sometmies indirectly, yes) but wont admit that you are.

yeah, it does look like i'm defending J-man, but that wasn't what i meant to do, if someone acuses someone, and they're wrong, its probably best to say they're wrong, it just so happens someone accused j-man, and i said they were wrong.

Right, you are discussing logic, however at the same time you are defending j-man. You dont want to vote him out or you dont want him to claim. Yet you never ask J-man questions about his possible guilt. You just assume he is innocent, or you just do not care. Actually you dont really ask anyone questions, is that because you already know the answers?..Like who is mafia?

well i'm not trying to defend j-man, someone else said this, it was meant for other threads right? my point is that you shouldn't force someone to claim on day one, you won't get a good answer, you'll always get vanilla townie. That has nothing to do with j-man, that was about having someone, actually anyone, claim. i don't want to vote him out, i would vote him, but then he was at -1, and i wasn't willing to lynch him, but i still didn't want anyone to claim so early in the game.What kind of questions should i ask? I don't really ask anyone questions in this game, its just not my play-style. I don't assume he's innocent, and i do care, i just don't want to lynch him.

[Kate]

I never said I cared one way or the other about "claiming". I agree claiming is hardly ever relevant. However, this was not the only post that Kate defends J-man...I think J-Man is scummy, and I wonder why Kate defends him. Please reread my post, she DOES defend him over and over again....This claiming issue was just one way she defends him (yes, I said before indirectly).

You keep saying i defend him, when i asked for examples of me defending him, you provided four examples, however, only one of those four was a good example.

and here again, you help him in post 113

So J-man now has 5 votes, with seven to lynch...great idea town! put him in a position where mafia can easily kill him!
About the whole lurking thing, just because you're not talking as much, doesn't mean you're scum, maybe you're just busy or don't have anything to say about what's going on.
I think Adel is more suspicious in my eyes, how before it seemed he was pushing to kill the lurkers, and looks like he wants bandwagons:

You keep defending him in post 122, 136 (later in the post), 155...and on and on.

As i said, 136 is fair, but i wasn't defending him in neither 122 nor 155, however, i never said anything about 113. If you mean the first sentance, i meant i didn't like that we had someone at -2 so early in the game, it could lead to an easy speedlynch. If you mean the second part, lurking wasn't the reason J-man was almost gone, i think we were talking about dylan there, but J-man was pretty active.

[Kate]

I'm not back yet, but I got the chance to post. Once I'm dead and you all discover that I'm innocent...please lynch Kate, molestargazer, and MasterMind of Sin.

Thanks, I really appreciate it. Although I doubt you'll do it since you aren't listening now.

Do you know why we're voting you? You won't defend yourself, and when we tell you to, you still don't and vote someone else. Honestly, so far you've been no help, so at least explain yourself a little.
Why do you think the town should lynch me, molestargazer, and MoS?

[Kate]

I'm sick of everyone saying me and J-man are together, if we lynch him and he turns up scum, that doesn't mean i'm scum too. curious only gave proof of me defending him once, one little quote. i'm sure there may be one or two more out there, but other people have defended others too.

Anyway, about dylan, he's seriously no help at all He may be a townie, but the way he asks is seriously scummy, and i would hate for him to be scum but get away with a bored town act, we'd just be letting him off the hook.

[Kate]

If J-man's telling the truth, and that really is how he acts all the time, if we can replace him, we really should. I'm gonna keep my vote for a while though.

[Kate]

Wow curious, I'm dissapointed. I thought of anyone, you would post a good defense. Why don't you actually post a defense? You take all the time to post who's gonna vote you, or how lynching you is good for the town. The only way lynching you will be good is if you are mafia.

How many votes does he have now? 5?

Vote: curiouskarmadog

By the way, so curious thought I was scum because I defended J-man, and Crub (J-man) thinks I'm scum because curious thought I was scum, and because I said there's no reason for a nolynch vote, and he should've unvoted. Honestely, did I do anything that's actually suspicious? People keep saying I'm scum if someone else is, if J-man(now crub) is, and if curious is.

[Kate]

*shrug* ckd made a pretty good defense, imo, but I will still FoS: ckd

ckd made a defense? He hasn't yet, his last post even said, "THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE. "
And why do you think pickem is scum?

[Kate]

*shrug* ckd made a pretty good defense, imo, but I will still FoS: ckd

ckd made a defense? He hasn't yet, his last post even said, "THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE. "
And why do you think pickem is scum?

Kate, I have a few questions for you:

1) Do you always take people's posts are face value?
2) Do you always do what people tell you to do?
3) Have you read the thread?

Depending on your answers to my questions, your questions may become irrelevant, as you discover the answers to them yourself.

I asked you reasonable questions, actually, they were also pointed out by Adel and pickem, so you don't even answer, and ask me these...
Okay, ummmm, if something gives me scummy vides, i think they might be lying, like ckd for example. If i think someone is pretty pro-town, like Adel, i'll pretty much believe them. 2nd, no. 3rd, hmmmm, i think so...

[Kate]

I don't think NabNab saying "all 3 scum" is a scumtell, I've actually never played a mini normal game online, so as soon as curious said 3 scum, i immediately thought there were 3 scum in this game -just me not thinking- but anyway, to me that was just a stupid mistake, nothing to worry about.

Open 23, just got finished, he was a werewolf.

So why did we decide to let dylan of the hook?

[Kate]

Ok, I read the Masons/Monks game to see what Dylan's like as scum (and what Adel and J-Man are like as town). Despite being fast, violent, and stupid (the intelligent players seemed to be the first to go), it was pretty informative meta-game wise.

Dylan was very very obviously scum in that game, and you could clarly see his goals.

I haven't seen any specific goals that Dylan is going after, and he isn't hoping on to bandwagons as blantantly here as he was there.

Adel and J-Man were pretty much the same (Pretty good analysis and generally cautious play occasionally overturned when she's pissed for the former and an inscrutable wall 'o words for the latter).

He was on the only 2 bandwagons he could've been on (the other one was himself), and you also said it was fast and stupid, and the intelligent players were the first to go, so he could be pretty obvious in that game without being noticed, right?

So 22posts/8pages and 6posts/10pages...townie in both, so pretty much we still have no clue about dylan. I think he's been no help to the game, and honestly wouldn't mind lynching him, but that would just help the scum's odds if he is town...

Unvote

for now, I don't think curious is so scummy anymore.

[Kate]

After what's been going on with pickem and crud, i'm actually on pickem's side. This is only my idea of what pickem was thinking, though.

First: I didn't talk talk him into starting a J-man bandwagon.
It was just weird that he was all J-man=scum, so I'll vote mole to see if I can save my ass, so I explained that if he feels he has a solid point, then somebody has to start the bandwagon, and at that time I really didn't find J-man scummy.

You say you didn't find J-Man scummy but two posts later you agree with CarrotCake over his suspicions of J-Man?
pickemgenius in post 92 wrote:

J-Man seems to want to kill so badly, he wants it more than information. Lurking and NoLynch are mistakes, but he should not be killed quickly for it. Especially because the game is still young.

Or I could be wrong, im new too.
CC eyes J-man suspiciously

I think you're pretty spot-on.
That's just me though.
And I don't think it's a want to kill so badly, as much as J-man wants the game to progress exponentially faster then it should.

Yeah, pickem already said this, but it seems more like he's defending J-man rather than agreeing with CarrotCake.

Second: There was alot of pressure already on J-man, with 5 votes.
I wanted to see his defense first, as I wasn't getting many scummy vibes from him, so basically it would have been unneccessary/stupid for me to add a "pressure" vote and put him at L-1

I don't think it would have been stupid. As it turns out it was unnecessary because he claimed at L-2 anyway, although he did say that he wouldn't have claimed a PR until L-1

I think this is just different play styles, pickem thinks L-2 is enough pressure, crub thinks you should put more pressure(L-1)

Third: Yes, my reason for thinking he could be scum was very shitty though(as has been said before, and I've admitted to), I don't believe in dropping a hammer on somebody for a very shitty reason. I wanted more of a defense aswell from him.

So question to you: You say I should have dropped the hammer on J-man, why should I have, when my reason was very shitty?

If you thought he was scum you should have hammered him. If you didn't think he was scum you shouldn't have made a post giving anyone else a reason to hammer him.

see, now i'm confused, I thought he was at L-2, and don't remember pickem trying to convince other's to hammer. If pickem had crappy reasons, he shouldn't have hammered, but also shouldn't have been trying to get others to hammer. I'll have to do a reread tonight, and since i haven't reread yet, i'm probably wrong about pickem, but that's what i think right now.

[Kate]

Wow this game goes fast, it's like everyday i check this, there's another page. And it's all very confusing too. I was actually planning on a reread, but i've got 3 brother's with me that are all suddenly in to counter strike, WoW, and now the Sims 2...with 2 computers...just my luck. But anyway, as soon as I find time when they won't kick me off, i'll reread

First off, NabNab; your case on Joe, I'm not convinced. To me, he just wants dylan gone, if he were scum, I don't think he would've stuck to dylan. Wouldn't he have switched to the next scummy player? IMO, sticking with dylan was more pro-town, he saw a scummy player, and wouldn't let him off the hook 'til he explained himself, as he's been doing.

Mastermind seems to be really careless about who he throws his vote to

Next time, you might wanna explain why your voting for someone in the same post, that's kinda why the town's against you

I actually wouldn't mind a dylan lynch, I don't think he's been a help to the town, he just pops in and votes the biggest bandwagon, no explanation, more like a help to the mafia. I also think we would gain just as much info. from a dylan lynch, as any other lynch.

With that said

Vote:Dylan

[Kate]

Kate - I do not just join the biggest bandbagon. That's a lie, please take it back.

Okay, there have been main 3 bandwagons, right? Against J-man, you, and curious. You were on the one against J-man, you were not on the one against yourself (duh), but you were on the one against curious. So technically, you just join the biggest bandwagon.

[Kate]

I'm not saying I never did it.

You're saying you don't join the biggest band wagon, right

[Kate]

Not to mention the fact that it's incredibly scummy to say that the Dylan lynch would help us in any way.

FoS: Kate

I said the dylan lynch would help us? I think I said it would help just as much as any other lynch, but haven't other people mentioned that too?

[Kate]

Wow this game goes fast, it's like everyday i check this, there's another page. And it's all very confusing too. I was actually planning on a reread, but i've got 3 brother's with me that are all suddenly in to counter strike, WoW, and now the Sims 2...with 2 computers...just my luck. But anyway, as soon as I find time when they won't kick me off, i'll reread

First off, NabNab; your case on Joe, I'm not convinced. To me, he just wants dylan gone, if he were scum, I don't think he would've stuck to dylan. Wouldn't he have switched to the next scummy player? IMO, sticking with dylan was more pro-town, he saw a scummy player, and wouldn't let him off the hook 'til he explained himself, as he's been doing.

dylan wrote:
Mastermind seems to be really careless about who he throws his vote to


Next time, you might wanna explain why your voting for someone in the same post, that's kinda why the town's against you

I actually wouldn't mind a dylan lynch, I don't think he's been a help to the town, he just pops in and votes the biggest bandwagon, no explanation, more like a help to the mafia. I also think we would gain just as much info. from a dylan lynch, as any other lynch.

With that said
Vote:Dylan

-Not convince about case on Joe-N
WIFOM-A/N
Sticking with dylan was more pro-town move-A/N
Doesn't mind dylan lynch/votes dylan-A/N

Says w would gain alot of info from a dylan lynch-A/N

I just want to point this out, because I don't want anyone to think I said we would gain

alot

from the dylan lynch, and MoS seems to think I meant that too, but I mean we would gain just as much from a dylan lynch than any other, kinda more like if we lynch adel, we could gain just as much if we lynch dylan...not very much. I don't like how MoS is voting someone who thinks we could gain something from lynching dylan, and FoSing me, it doesn't seem like those are scummy things, but, again, different play-styles.

[Kate]

I'm gonna Unvote:Dylan, I don't think he'd be a good lynch for today,

Also, watch for people dropping off the Dylan bandwagon and heading to the MoS bandwagon

NO worries, I'm not heading for the MoS wagon
I don't know who seems scummier to me, Adel or MoS...I didn't like MoS's case on Num7, and he does seem to be rolefishing. But something Adel said definitely stood out to me, and i think it was also mentioned by other peeps:

If MoS were town I think he would've figured out who was scum by now and presented a case, asked for and received the doc protect, and we would be well into day 2.

I don't think that just because you're experienced doesn't mean you can figure out who's scum so easily, which made you're vote seem completely OMGUSy...IMO at least...

[Kate]

I'm gonna Unvote:Dylan, I don't think he'd be a good lynch for today, .

did you mean to bold this?

Oh yeah, I did...ooops

Unvote:Dylan41985

[Kate]

I actually just thought the debate between Adel and MoS was going somewhere and I thought what I said about gaining information from a dylan lynch wasn't actually gonna happen, and we could gain alot more with lynching someone else. I know I sound completely stupid, but I just changed my mind about everything I said earlier

[Kate]

If we have 35 pages, we will so TOTALLY ROX!!!

Anyway, I have no idea what to do right now, so I'll have to reread this week.

[Kate]

Sorry everyone, wow, 48 hours? My bad...

First off: welcome Tar!!!

First of all, thank you Tarhalindur! (May we call you Tar?) We all really appreciate you replacing HJ.

I hope we can...i call him that

Anyway, to the MoS wagon, I think we should wait 'til he gets back until putting him at -1, at least until we get a defense. But he seems pretty scummy, he's positive someone is scum, but then changes his mind and immediately goes after someone else...convinced that they're scum. And then tells us to look for scummy things ourselves, I personally hate that, if you ask me, I think he's a pretty ok lynch for today.

[Kate]

Hey MeMe! Am I ever in a game without you?

And is there anway to get dylan replaced? Or he

needs

to talk!!!

[Kate]

dylan, if I knew a shy person but we were being killed by mafia each night but wouldn't contribute, yeah, i'd want them replaced.

[Kate]

dylan, it doesn't take too long to figure out your playstyle, alot of peeps in this game joined around when you did or later.

[Kate]

mind explaining why you think they're scum ot town?

[Kate]

Well, I'm not so sure about my scum list, i'll do my reread, and i know i keep promising, but my dumb brothers won't get off WoW! Anyway, Tar seems pretty pro-town, and sorta like my other game, so I guess he's more pro-town.

[Kate]

isn't everyone else going to post their top 3/bottom 3????

ummm, do we really need to? there's enough discussion going on already......and I really don't have a good read on anyone at this point, so i'll wait to post mine.

[Kate]

Maybe...what's up with the yelling at eachother? This is only a game.

[Kate]

it'd be nice if anyone else was even here...

I'm still here, but I don't really know what to say.

Per is back on the 29th. When he returns, perhaps it would be time for a deadline?

I am sort of at a loss here too....Adel removing her vote is interesting, as she put herself in the lead.

Idon't really know what to say either...I'd like to hear from Adel too, but other than that, i think we need to find a new topic...

[Kate]

Just because I was scum in that game doesn't mean I'm scum in this game, the whole point was for my playstyle to be the same, otherwise if someone looked up this game they'd know I was scum in 399.

[Kate]

Okay, waht Num7 said is what I meant in m post 902, i guess I just worded it wrong or something.

If you guys want to lynch me because I don't play differently when I'm scum (like scum should do) that's about the dumbest reason I've ever heard. Just because I was scum in one game, doesn't mean I'm scum in another.

[Kate]

Oh my god, So you think I'm scum because I was scum in another game...I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT! I have to play the same as I usually do! Why don't you look up the other game I was cop in? Newbie 341? My playstyle was the same too.

[Kate]

Why don't you look up the other game I was cop in?

Wait a minute, are you claiming cop?

jesus christ....I hope she didnt just claim cop in Day 1 on accident..

I think this too might be a slip up....

No I didn't, that was an example of me being town.

EBWOP: I'm still uneasy about Kate (as I see it, she played somewhat differently in Newb 341 than she did in Newb 399), but rolefishing > (apparently) scummy playstyle. FoS: Kate

rolefishing? when was I rolefishing?

Vote:Tar

for coming the whole stupid thing of why he thinks I'm scum, and for accusing me of rolefishing.

[Kate]

i wasn't rolefishing, I wasn't asking to to claim. Either you are a twit or you ar scum, I say you are scum. Do you honestly believe that you will hang with two votes?

So why did curious have to ask you three times before you would finally answer and say you weren't rolefishing, and you call him a twit when he wasn't the only one that thought you were rolefishing?

I honestly didn't think Adel was rolefishing when she said she would only unvote if curious claimed, but the fact that it took such a long time to say she wasn't was scummy.

And since MoS no longer has two votes, curious would be lynched if no one unvoted or voted, you two are tied, but curious got there first.

[Kate]

1) Wishy-Washy Play (refusing to take sides on game issues):

Hestret, you're post did seem a bit scummy, it looks like you're scum trying to be pro-town, especially how you said, "I just want to assure you that i'm no scum"
Maybe I'm looking at it too hard, but that's what it seems like.

i don't really think scum would say they would kill themselves in 24 hours, however townies feeling under stress might, maybe he jst doesnt want to be lynched on day one and wants to get out of the game. But he could still be mafia trying to trick us into thinking he's a helpless town...i don't know...

(I'm extremely paranoid about this issue in particular, as I mistook Kate's wishy-washiness for townieness early in Newb 399 and it came back to bite me later.)

I'm pretty sure you'd see that in Newbie 399, I acted like that alot more than I did in this game.

2: Using the "Just because he's scum doesn't mean I'm scum!" Defense:

I think this is really dumb how people are going to pair me with Tar if he's scum. I think he's scum, for some reason, he thinks i'm pro-town. That's not my fault...

I'm sick of everyone saying me and J-man are together, if we lynch him and he turns up scum, that doesn't mean i'm scum too. curious only gave proof of me defending him once, one little quote. i'm sure there may be one or two more out there, but other people have defended others too...

That's a true defense, I don't like when people people say I'm scum with someone else when (most of the time ) it's not true, in 399 it was a dumb reason to think I was scum, even if I was, and in this game, no one really provided much proof of me doing something scummy, and I'm sure if anyone were in that situation, town or scum, they would do the same as I did.

3:

I actually wouldn't mind a dylan lynch, I don't think he's been a help to the town, he just pops in and votes the biggest bandwagon, no explanation, more like a help to the mafia. I also think we would gain just as much info. from a dylan lynch, as any other lynch.

So 22posts/8pages and 6posts/10pages...townie in both, so pretty much we still have no clue about dylan. I think he's been no help to the game, and honestly wouldn't mind lynching him, but that would just help the scum's odds if he is town...

I'm gonna Unvote:Dylan, I don't think he'd be a good lynch for today,

This series of posts is setting off red flags. In the first post, Kate is, if not outright stating, then at least implying that dylan is a good lynch for today ("... we would gain just as much info. from a dylan lynch, as any other lynch"). In the third post, Kate outright states that she thinks that she doesn't think dylan is a good lynch for today, with no explanation given. This is a direct contradiction (going from "dylan's as good a lynch as any other" to "dylan's not a good lynch" with no reasoning provided.

I also find it *extremely* noteworthy that Kate switched off of dylan for no apparent reason right after the dylan wagon died down due to Adel/MoS bickering. That absolutely reeks of vote-hopping scum.

Okay, I know that sounds so scummy of me, but I seriously just changed my mind. The only reason I wanted to lynch dylan was because I was so ticked off about how he wasn't any help to the town, and I just wanted hm out of the game, my anger got the better of me. But then I changed my mind, I realized lynching dylan was stupid, and that we needed the numbers, so I unvoted. That was indeed when Adel and MoS were bickering, but that didn't have to do with my unvote, and I wasn't vote-hopping to one of them, I even think I said I wouldn't vote them in that same post.

2) Kate seems to be implying that she wants dylan lynched, not because she thinks he's scum or she thinks that lynching dylan will help us find scum, but rather because he's being a Village Idiot. This suggests that Kate doesn't really care about finding scum, only about getting people lynched - which, of course, is scummy as all hell.

See above.

3) Kate's sudden switch from "dylan is a good lynch" to "dylan isn't a good lynch" is strongly reminscent of her comments about a scummy pro-town player ( ) in Newb 399:

Kate's Top 3 Scum List

#1. Tarhalindur
#2. inHimshallibe
#3. ...i don't know

I reread the thread, and while reading the first page, i found Tarhalinder's post when he attcked Hestret and SirPhobos very aggresive, actually too aggresive. i said he wasn't too aggresive at first, but after reading it again, it does seem pretty scummy. Also, it seems as soon as inHim said something about Falcone being scummy, he jumped on. I honestly don't think his post 35 seems so scummy.

I actually agree with IH, Tar really does seem the most pro-town at the moment, I didn't like how he played earlier, but now he just seems like a townie scum hunting. However I don't really like the "lock on" vote. Just different play styles I think, but don't you think you might change your mind eventually? But that's just nothing, has no effect of whether you're scum or not.

The situation isn't exactly the same as the one in this game, but it's similar enough that I feel that this is worth mentioning.

This definately isn't the same; in this game, I wanted dylan lynched for a dumb reason, and realized I was being stupid so changed my mind. In 399, that was actually the third time I changed my mind about you, and it seemed we would lynch hestret, so I agreed with IH.

[Kate]

Did you guys not see my defense? I personally thought I had posted a very good defense.

It would be nice to have an example of confirmed town play. Kate, can you provide that?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're asking, I said to reread Newbie 341, but that's my only completed game besides 399.

I want to atleast (for myself) look over Kate again since I haven't gotten much from her all game.

Also she was in my original Wag list...

and which Wag list was this?

[Kate]

and which Wag list was this?

Like this one:

Wag o' the finger:
Kate(lots of no reads, barely on this list)
Crub(Capable, but J-man was a awkward predecessor)
ThAdmiral(lots of no reads, should be doing more)
HJ(lurkitude+sudden change of heart @ dylan)

Oh, okay.

[Kate]

I think everyone should choose between me or ckd for the lynch.

So is it between Adel, curious, and Admiral? Okay, I think that going back to the dylan vote one day before deadline is a bad idea. We should make a decision before deadline. I honestly don't know which is scummier, Adel or curious, but I'd rather lynch one of them over ThAdmiral.

[Kate]

I have no idea who to vote for, but Tar is not the lynch for today and that was an OMGUS vote, so

Unvote

I won't be able to post again today, but out of the three, I'd say curious is probably the scummiest. Everyone's said this already but when he's under pressure, he acts pretty scummy.

[Kate]

I have no idea who to vote for, but Tar is not the lynch for today and that was an OMGUS vote, so Unvote

I won't be able to post again today, but out of the three, I'd say curious is probably the scummiest. Everyone's said this already but when he's under pressure, he acts pretty scummy.

pickem is picking a good time to leave.

pickem, kate, and num7, and ThAdmiral make up my current suspect list. The wagon on ckd got really big really quickly. fueled by scum, no doubt.

I thought curious was scummy, and so did six other people. Curious did act very scum-like under pressure, and I don't see why I couldn't also agree that he was scummy.

[Kate]

vote:Kate

because pickem is on vacation, and I don't like how she coppied other people case against ckd almost word for word when she made her vote on him. i am convinced that there is scum on the ckd wagon. Totally convinced.

I actally never voted him. All I said was that I thought he was scummy and a good lynch for day one.

[Kate]

Good luck I think that would help us.

[Kate]

I do't think we should really go after the lurkers, but I don't like mole's dissapearence. Answering a prod but still not saying anything is really wierd and I don't find Num scummy for wanting to go after him.

We've lost two of our more active players, both of whom were pro-town. I believe we should take a closer look at our lurkers.

Dylan jumped on almost every major wagon, but he was not on CKD's lynch. Coincidence?

I have a few questions for MSG. Looking through your posts, I noticed that you haven't had a vote on anyone since you unvoted Dylan over a month ago. Why? Your last post was a day before the deadline was announced, and you said you were just back from vacation, and promised to catch up. Why didn't you contribute? How come you could respond to a PM during a 64-hour night, but you didn't post in the thead at all during the 1-week space before the deadline?

I'd like to know what ThAdmiral has to say about Adel, now that CKD has been lynched and came up pro-town. I never quite understood the reasoning behind, "If adel is lynched and comes up town I will go after ckd." Does he now conclude that Adel must be scum?

Adel, could you do another diagram like you did in 307 showing all the votes of D1? I know it would be a lot of work, but you say you like doing it, and I think a retrospective of the D1 votes would be very helpful.

So, you're asking questions instead of offering analysis, and advocating a lurker hunt to boot? That's seriously scummy. Vote: Num7

What's wrog with asking questions? Aren't you supposed to ask questions in this game? I'm pretty sure someone told me I was anti-town for not asking questions.
Oh, and Happy Birthday Tar!

[Kate]

@ kate:

I actually never voted him. All I said was that I thought he was scummy and a good lynch for day one.

This to me is even more scummy than voting for him would have been.

So i was scummy if I did vote him, but now I'm scummy because I didn't? What's wrong with saying I thought he was scummy? I'm also pretty sure he was at -1 anyway, and would be lynched at the deadline, so me voting him would only lynch him sooner.

[Kate]

You were scummy because you pushed for his lynch without voting him, not just because you didn't vote him.

When people push a lynch and don't vote, its usually so they can say they never really lynchd them and can't be blamed for their death. However, I'm not saying I didn't want him lynched, I agreed with everyone else that he was the best choice of a lynch, but didn't see a point in voting him if he was at L-1

[Kate]

As I told you, I PLAY THE SAME! Whether I'm scum, or whether I'm town, I play the same. I already explained my actions too.

[Kate]

Welcome to the game!

[Kate]

I don't really think someone would defend their scumbuddy in another game, I mean, what would be the point?

[Kate]

Saying mathmatical things is not a scumtell, so I'm pretty sure Adel does that as town and scum.

[Kate]

Hmmm...regardless, I think she is pretty scummy. She found the cop, and advised to shoot him. Then backtracked with some WIFOM.

Are you talking about this game? How would Adel know MoS is the cop?

[Kate]

I don't think dylan is doing much harm if he is town, but there's really no way to tell with his playstyle.

[Kate]

other players would all have equally slim odds of being SKs. At least dylan being an SK would make his behavior make more sense to me. dylan is like an annoying and complex little puzzle, that only looks hard until someone shows you how to solve it. I don't know if we will solve it, but I suspect that there is a correct solution to the dylan problem.

But we saw dylan's games, he always plays like this, right? I don't want dylan to be in the game near the end if he is mafia, but if he's town, I don't want to lynch another townie.

[Kate]

other players would all have equally slim odds of being SKs. At least dylan being an SK would make his behavior make more sense to me. dylan is like an annoying and complex little puzzle, that only looks hard until someone shows you how to solve it. I don't know if we will solve it, but I suspect that there is a correct solution to the dylan problem.

But we saw dylan's games, he always plays like this, right? I don't want dylan to be in the game near the end if he is mafia, but if he's town, I don't want to lynch another townie.

@Kate- Ummm.... like... that totally said nothing basically.

What I meant, was dylan isn't "more likely" to be an SK because of his behavior, because this is how he always plays.

[Kate]

This game is going too slow...

[Kate]

What allegations? I don't think anyone's said anything about that accept you... And I don't really think I do dissapear....

[Kate]

...that was kinda random...

@kate: well for one example when ckd was being bandwagonned you disappeared. I am sure there are other times as well. I will have a look back and find a few more examples.

I didn't actually totally dissapear, usually that happens when I just don't have anything to say, but I still posted before he was lynched and said I agreed he was the best lynch.

[Kate]

I think the game might go a little faster once we get a good replacement for dylan ....if Per can find one

[Kate]

Welcome back MoS

[Kate]

Yeah, I'd like to hear what MoS has to say too, and I also want to hear what Tar has to say about that vote on Adel...man this game is slow....

[Kate]

There's really no difference between what I said and what ThAdmiral said.

[Kate]

I think Adel is most likely scum at this point, but I really have nothing to add...

[Kate]

I think Adel is scum, but i'm just not sure about num7...

[Kate]

Adel is scum!!

Vote:Adel

I'm the doctor not Adel.

[Kate]

I'd say Num7 is our best bet for scum.

[Kate]

Just because we know MoS-cop was pro-town doesn't mean all his cases must be correct. Townies make mistakes.

I don't know, MoS mafia could make sense, and would be a completely awesome play too.

[Kate]

Last night I protected myself, since per didn't say that in the rules or anything, I got to protect myself for one night (last night). I don't see harm in listing possibilities, but since I'm posting everything, it is pretty pointless

[Kate]

Sorry I'd say Tar or Crub is most likely the last scum.

I protected MoS lastnight.

[Kate]

I'm sure they didn't, after all, Adel and num were ignoring eachother before someone noticed, right?

[Kate]

Hey, sorry I couldn't post, I think Atticus said that for me...I'll reread soon and post again, but right now i don't have time.

[Kate]

I'm pretty sure Crub is scum guys. I have been on his bandwagon from back then when it was still popular, and I'm sticking with the old school.

You've been saying he's scum the whole time, so why are you voting pickem?

Kate, what do you think about Crub and ABR?

I don't trust either of them. abr just keeps talking about how crub is scum, and hasn't given any real proof of that. But crub does seem pretty scummy. He seems to go after whoever votes him (ThAdmiral), or else the largest bandwagon (pickem).

[Kate]

MoS, what are your opinions on everyone at this point?

[Kate]

What's the point in them claiming?

[Kate]

I was trying to get the scum to keep killing me, that's why I said I only had one self-protect, but the scum didn't buy it.

That last post by pickem was definetely uncalled for. It might've made more sense if he were own...oh well.

I had a fun time playing.