Mini 458 - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait, you know it's bad logic, but you'll stick with it? That makes no sense whatsoever. All it takes is a quick look through past games to realize that you are wrong. I can't count the number of times I have replaced into a game as scum. Off the top of my head, there was Dichotomafia and one of the DP games (11, I think). I haven't done any replacing in over a year, for the most part, so it's hard to recall the various games.

well you have that experience to go on. I am a betting man, and have noted how many people bow out of games (that I have then replaced) and were town, yet they are strong posters on other threads….that I am sure they found more interesting because they probably had power in other games. So far in my career with this game (this site and others), every time I have been a replacement, I have been a townie.

...at any rate, it was just a theory...I have not read too many threads that I am not in...can you direct me to one that had such a scenario?

At this point in the game, replacements are not on my radar. This game is up to 3 now right? I think there are far more scummier people in this thread.

I can think of one game offhand that I am not in right now where I know of multiple replacements who are scum, but I can't say anything, because the game is still ongoing. Needless to say, though, it exists.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

[Adel]

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

QFT

J-man is still a candidate, but not much of one. It is interesting the pickemgenius just used similar warning against a dylan lynch that he did against a J-man lynch, which made MOS so suspicious of him in the first place. My vote remains on curiouskarmadog.

[curiouskarmadog]

What information do we gain from lynching dylan today? We have nothing to go on from his lynch, so we just revert to everyone else we were attacking today. He is most likely not scum, and his lynch will not accomplish anything. I'd rather just request that he be replaced, because he obviously is not playing the game, nor does he have any wish to play. Even if we can't replace him, though, we can just ignore him for now, and he'll be lynched/vigged/nightkilled eventually.

QFT

J-man is still a candidate, but not much of one. It is interesting the pickemgenius just used similar warning against a dylan lynch that he did against a J-man lynch, which made MOS so suspicious of him in the first place. My vote remains on curiouskarmadog.

And why is J-man not a candidate? Because he has said actually Jack lately...seems like a smart move. Basically this posts says, J-man and Pick could be candidates, but I would rather keep my vote on Curious...ahh, logic

[Adel]

Why are you being so dismissive curiouskarmadog? The logic is there, just in previous posts. You are correct though, in addition to yourself and dylan, J-man and pickem are the other probable scum candidates.. mostly because your ruse to build a bandwagon on Kate in order to force her to claim failed. You will not fool the rest of the town for long.

[J-man]

Questions I would like to see everyone answer:

1. Should we lynch the town idiot?

i think for the reasons listed above, aswell as im not up for rewarding scummy behaviour, even if it is constant and b) id rather play a game w/o Dylan tbh

2. Who else could be scum with the idiot if he is scum?

everyone and anyone, we;ve spent much to much time on this Dylan issue, we need to lynch or move on.

3. Who would be scum if he is not scum?

same answer to the last question.

**I wrote the italiziced stuff incase you didn't catch on**

[J-man]

oh i missed alot of posts since i started writing :S so i want to say this, if we can have him replaced good but otherwise im still up for a lynch, townie or not hes hurting the game more then hes helping

[J-man]

EBWOP- oops i didnt miss the posts i just didn't check the last page that post 2 up :S was in reference to Adels questions not knowing that there was more :S i feel lotta dumb right now

[NabakovNabakov]

"Everyone and anyone can be scum"?

First off, you can't have a game where

everyone

is scum, but that's really just nitpicking.


What really concerns me is that this post seriously contradicts itself in its logic. While D1 has not been entirely focused on the Villiage Idiot (a self-chosen role which can be easily abreviated as VI), it is very true that our efforts to locate scum may have been seriously curtailed. This point can be contested (I myself beleive that a discussion revolving around a VI can yeild numerous scumtells), but I can see J-Man's point of view on the matter.

For the sake of the argument (picking apart his argument specifically), let us say that J-Man is absolutely right, and that our discussion has gotten us nowhere nor will it ever get us anywhere. Then...

why should we still lynch the VI?

. It seems that a person of my thinking (one who beleives that lynching the VI can lead to scum) would have more of a reason to vote for Dylan that one of J-Man's thinking. I do not because of a moral opposition to the whole situation. J-Man's view on the situaion and his suggestion as to action upon it contradict wildly. The fundamental reasoning that J-Man has provided is exactly that of the dangeriously lazy townie or deceptively apathetic mafioso, that Dylan is annoying.

When I made my previous post accepting the lynch of Dylan I had not expected so many to come out in support of it, and now it seems that we might be able to go down a more productive route: MoS, while I have come to understand your declaration that J-Man is unboubtedly town, I find myself unable to agree with it. I therefore

Vote: J-Man

for his opportunistic bandwagoning, poor reasoning, and lack of contribution to true discussion.

[Adel]

the Villiage Idiot (a self-chosen role which can be easily abreviated as VI

LOL!!! You rock.

[NabakovNabakov]

On a more theoretical note, it appears that we have fleshed out quite the concept here with the idea of a Villiage Idiot (it would be ridiculous to say "discovered a concept" because VI's have existed forever). It seems that we have discovered a perfect specimen in poor Dylan. It might be interesting to, upon my return, post in the Discussion thread and perhaps establish the VI as standard terminology so that towns can begin to develop a methodology which can be applied to the problem.

@The more experienced players: Does this idea have sufficient merit for that sort of treatment? Would it be best to wait for the game to end before posting? (they seem quite picky about referencing ongoing games over there in the Discussion thread)

[J-man]

see NabNAb you have missed out on part of the point here, whereas i can see that you could classify me as a

dangeriously lazy townie or deceptively apathetic mafioso

in actuallity i just dont want to play with Dylan i have had him with me in too many games and he does the same things so yes i am sick of it, it allways ends up in a town lynch anyway because no1 wants to go to lylo with Dylan (would you?) kill me if you will but from now on i will not rest until Dylan dies, or i will ask to be replaced, i will not play with som1 who will not play the game.

MOD: replace Dylan plz[/b[

[J-man]

EBWOP

MOD: replace Dylan plz

[Adel]

It sounds like a wiki page to me, if you can talk in really general theoretical terms which don't have any bearing on this ongoing game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

J-man, you do realize that you have barely been more helpful than Dylan this game, right? Also, I maintain that pickem is scum. J-man and Dylan are not likely to be scum, and lynching them won't help us that much. We'd get some information from the J-man lynch, but at the cost of an obvious protown. It is quite clear that his "scumtells" come from his inexperience, not a malicious, clever plan to kill the town.

[curiouskarmadog]

in actuallity i just dont want to play with Dylan i have had him with me in too many games and he does the same things so yes i am sick of it, it allways ends up in a town lynch anyway because no1 wants to go to lylo with Dylan (would you?) kill me if you will but from now on i will not rest until Dylan dies, or i will ask to be replaced, i will not play with som1 who will not play the game.

He does this every game? Then it is his poor place style. Just because you are tired of it, in no means we should lynch the VI. Again, I think he is town...I DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH TOWN...and I am considered with why everybody who does. Dylan is not "distracting" us..we are. Lets move on. J-man actions are not pro-twon....MoS please show me a post where J-man has been pro-town. Lynching someone who is just a poor player and is probably town will only put the odds in the mafia's favor.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ckd, please show me a post where Dylan has been protown and I will show you a post where J-man has been protown. Please don't be a hypocrit.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, please show me a post where Dylan has been protown and I will show you a post where J-man has been protown. Please don't be a hypocrit.

ahh, got me there..very good point..

so your opinion is that Dylan is scummier than J-man?

[curiouskarmadog]

Edit by post : Post 415 play=place

[Mastermind of Sin]

I believe that given the two to choose from, dylan is the scummier, because I actually CAN show you where J-man has been protown, and I have already done so in this game.

well i can see that you guys are quite intent on killing me and ive spent a hour and a bit reading the posts over and trying to figure out a airtight argument that i could use in my defence, mabye its because of inexpierence that i cant find one but in any case im pretty sure that my defence is already stated and if there is another out there that thinks i am mafia... well then i cant do a whole lot to stop you. the defence behind the hinting about a power role is this, i was hoping that you guys would move on with out moving to the point that if i was i would have to claim.

on a different note this game is being run quite effeciently by 2 people adel and MoS imo they can effectively control and direct the discussion which if either of then are mafia (speccially adel) then town has already lost pressure needs to be applied to them but i can/t see that happening as they are both coming to the conclusion that each other are townie

finnaly i have this to say as my last line of defence i am Vanilla, not mafia; killing me on day 1 with this amount of info that you have is a bad idea you will go into day2 with very much the same amount of info and adel and MoS pushing for the first townie that makes an error in common speech, if it means anything in quite convinced that there are no power roles.

That being said, I do not want either J-man or Dylan to be lynched. They are protown, and I'm highly amused that both of them have attacked me repeatedly this game, but that just contributes to my feeling that they are protown at this point. I'm sticking with my pickem vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I am sure we can go round and round about who we think is scummer. I admit I can not find much that proves that Dylan is pro-town, but I think he is just inexperienced, as indirectly and unintentionally proven by J-man (describing Dyaln's other games). At least we both agree that a Dylan lynching proves little. I do some what agree with J-man however...if Dylan does not post more soon, he should be prodded then replaced. Replaced or Lynched seems pretty apathetic to me, J-man. Since you are referencing other games, these games that you have always resulted in a lynch, was Dylan mafia or town? If we play smart, and not lynch the VI, we wont get into a lylo situation.

If he is to be replaced, I would like to see how the replacement acted, before we lynch him.

[Kate]

If J-man's telling the truth, and that really is how he acts all the time, if we can replace him, we really should. I'm gonna keep my vote for a while though.

[HungryJoe]

Augh. You guys are probably quite correct.

Unvote

I won't let my annoyance with Dylan move my vote. =b The VI is a common role, and does usually end up being town, I'll admit. But beware, J-Man, that if dylan were not here, you would be VI in his place. So tread carefully, lest you invoke all our wrath once more, hm?

Ifhe does play this way all the time, I would agree that we should ask for a replacement (ye gods, he reminds me of Battle Mage... ick.)

[J-man]

Mod- I would like to be replaced

[Per]

Situation: J-man has informed me that he only wants to be replaced if dylan is not. Being a new mod, I'm a bit in the blue here. I contacted MeMe about this.

Edit: dylan41985 will not be replaced unless he asks to be replaced himself. I'm looking for a replacement for J-man.