Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[Sakura Hana]

And anyways why are you taking stuff that happened outside of the game as a way for you to further push your idea?

The same way how we're allowed to use the opinions posted on MD to call out a player.

Doesn't that ammount to outside of game communication? I remember wake being called out for stuff like that when he posted such things in MD.

[Sakura Hana]

yay, finally we're getting somewhere!

[Sakura Hana]

So Titus when did you change from unsure to scum wrt tn?

[Sakura Hana]

From that post it makes me think she voted because she was tired of my push and decided to go along with it, which it is more likely that hers is a bus vote than start's.

[Sakura Hana]

Considering before that vote she was pretty uncertain wrt tn, like all her posts she never stated a hard stance on him except saying she wasn't townreading him, hmm...

[Sakura Hana]

At least 2 scums in tn's wagon.
Mark my words once tn flip town and we die n1

and then you wonder why i think you're scum.

[Sakura Hana]

So Titus when did you change from unsure to scum wrt tn?

Constant back psin. I want on of my scumreads dead.

Ah I see then why instead of helping me push, you were onto start?

[Sakura Hana]

You took too long BZZZT

Unvote
Vote: Titus

[Sakura Hana]

Don't worry if anyone thinks im going somewhere it's probably not where i'm actually going, I do lots of gambits after all.

[Sakura Hana]

At least 2 scums in tn's wagon.

Titus/Bert maybe? nah that's be too obvious... those are the 2 jumps i don't like tho.

[Sakura Hana]

What do I look for when I read gaiden

It's kinda hard to explain, it's the way he posts. I'd try to be more specific but i don't wanna give him an easy way for me to townread him when he's scum.
I'm not 100% confident on it tho, but so far it hasn't failed me and i also haven't played with him for at least a month, so take it with a grain of salt, but i'm atm thinking it's Town Gaiden.

[Sakura Hana]

Considering before that vote she was pretty uncertain wrt tn, like all her posts she never stated a hard stance on him except saying she wasn't townreading him, hmm...

I did. Probably scum is a hard stance.

Shows how "hard" your hard stance was then.

[Sakura Hana]

So after all that he was "prob scum"?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura if you require me to post as fast as unusual or be a policy mislynch.

I'm pretty sure my reason for scumreading you stems from your unnatural progression on your tn scumread because you never hard pushed him and only called him prob scum despite you acting towards him like he was the scummiest of them all, yet you decide to replace out because i said "Took too long" lulz.

[Sakura Hana]

Don't worry if anyone thinks im going somewhere it's probably not where i'm actually going, I do lots of gambits after all.

[Sakura Hana]

The irony of me quoting that right after i did another gambit to see if you would call me out on not giving you enough time to reply, however you drifted into something else sooo...

[Sakura Hana]

I did fucking call you out.

You didn't call me out, you went to explain your scumread then replaced out because of it.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway, my point is, you been pushing start instead of tn, despite your posts hinting that you think tn's scummier than start even if you yourself said otherwise, I realized this when you suddenly slapped a vote on tn and decided to go back through your posts and see where exactly your read changed, then you said "He was only prob scum, start was scummier", When you're clearly agreeing with my reasons to push tn since the beginning.

[Sakura Hana]

If i'm lying then why do you react like this?

[Sakura Hana]

oh ok

[Sakura Hana]

Now there's another thing that's been bothering me.
@GiF: Why do you keep saying that you're doing to die N1?

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE: tn5421

(I may re-vote this, but since I don't know anything about the gamestate right now, I want to make a vote on my own terms rather than my predecessor's.)

Hello everyone! I have quite a monumental task ahead of me reading this game, so it will likely be tomorrow before I have a substantive post. However, I would like to get summaries of the gamestate from people (from everyone, ideally). I will not use this in lieu of reading for myself, but it will help me get a sense of how you perceive the game (and ultimately hopefully a glimpse of your alignment as well). It doesn't have to be long, even a sentence or two will suffice, but I think summaries might be useful. Thanks in advance!

You could start by telling me who're your scumbuddies

Game starts with a bunch of fluff and a very long RVS, i come in and figure that considering the game had been going for 4-6 pages, the game should already been moving out of RVS, so I try that, then tn comes and devolves into RVS saying that everything up until that point was fluff, me and pie challenge him to prove it, he asks us for links showing content, we disagree and give him things to comment on without direct links, he instead goes to run some ISOs, the ISOs look skewed to push a case, so i disagree, wall war ensues, Bins continues to do nothing despite being scumread for it, wall war between me and tn continues, your predecessor says tn's scum and votes him, wall war continues, tn starts blaming me for ppl not commenting on anything else despite ppl doing everything except paying attention to our wall war (besides your predecessor), team 9 goes after your predecessor for her whole stance in the whole thing, then after the wall war's over she tells me and tn to chill out, team 9 pegs her for that, your predecessor says that if she was scum she wouldnt tell us to chill out, she also then starts going after bert (start), Varsoon comes in, more commenting on stuff, bitmap replaces out Mr. X makes a list of catch up reads, your predecessor keeps doing nothing, sometime soft pushing bert, i engage in discussion with team 9 wrt to tn, your predecessor scumslips and i decide to vote her instead, and she rage replaces out, and here you are.

Ironically after writing this summary, it makes me think it's more likely for you to be scum than before writing it, but totally titus saying that she would take stances on something she knew to be TvT as scum, despite taking a hard stance on tn doesn't have anything to do with it... NOPE! not at all.

[Sakura Hana]

@GiF: Why do you keep saying that you're doing to die N1?

Crumbing cop, duh.
(But in more serious reply, I'm keep feeling like we're gonna die n1 yet again for being three awesome in this game)

I'll make sure you don't die then, and instead i'll make sure i die.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum appease. Generally it's the bully who gets lynched Day 1.

Considering before that vote she was pretty uncertain wrt tn, like all her posts she never stated a hard stance on him except saying she wasn't townreading him, hmm...

I did. Probably scum is a hard stance.

I think this is interesting to analyze imo.

[Sakura Hana]

and now she keeps quoting that stupid post of her's efdsgwtrdfveqdasdsa

Don't worry if anyone thinks im going somewhere it's probably not where i'm actually going, I do lots of gambits after all.

[Sakura Hana]

ITT: I can never follow Sakura's logic.

Don't worry no one can follow my logic, if they could scum would've already found out a way to know when im gambiting and when i'm not.

[Sakura Hana]

Currently we does not have a townread on following players:

SXTLHGaiden
startfromtheheart
The Bulge

Please assist.

Looks like to me that you've solved the game since there's 3 scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, why are you still voting that slot.

Because I didn't like the way Titus replaced out, and i didnt like the way she responded to the wagon on tn.

[Sakura Hana]

She replaced out because she was going to be a policy lynch because I tried to bait her with something about taking too long?

[Sakura Hana]

Like

christ

I like new sakura

but you're so aggressive and you're not taking time to think of how other people might feel

Who gives a fuck what reads you get if the only way you can get them is to make someone feel like shit

I'm getting my reads in the same way i used to, gut, the only difference is that before i couldn't explain my reads nor push for anything so people would always thought i was scum, and now i actually push them until they eventually scumslip so i can lynch them.

[Sakura Hana]

Like if i was a vig, i'd have no issue playing with how i used to, because i could just kill the scum during the night anyway. But there's no vig here soo *shrug* I have to try new innovative ways to get my gut scumreads to slip up so i can get them lynched, or it will be like that one game where i was pushing scum Gaiden and you kept tunneling me despite that because "I wasn't pushing" nor "scumhunting" and "Being a hypocrite".

[Sakura Hana]

Tho although technically my gut scumread is on tn and Bins, but i didnt like how titus jumped in.

[Sakura Hana]

Well there's also the "Cop claims" > "Doctors flip a coin" i suggested earlier. but that has roughly 50% chance of failing just like yours.

[Sakura Hana]

In the previous iteration i played the cop forgot that both doctors protecting him would render the protection useless and claimed out of nowhere, to try to fix it i proposed the strategy that both doctors flip a coin about protecting him or not.

[Sakura Hana]

In either case tho I don't think the plan will work, because I already did something stupid.

[Sakura Hana]

Excuse me if i'm paranoid but i doubt scum is any stupid.

@GiF: Why do you keep saying that you're doing to die N1?

Crumbing cop, duh.
(But in more serious reply, I'm keep feeling like we're gonna die n1 yet again for being three awesome in this game)

I'll make sure you don't die then, and instead i'll make sure i die.

Unless they are scared of my gambits which might work, In either case I've already skewed the direction of scum's NK whether they want to believe my soft or not, or think i'm gambiting is up to them, but this plan is at least better imo than going with the RNG chance.

[Sakura Hana]

Hey pieguy, what do you think about what I posted earlier, where Titus said scum appeases, but she took my side during the whole Sakura vs tn thing.

[Sakura Hana]

@pieguy: You were calling out Titus because she came to dismiss the fight between us, but the timing was odd.
She said that if she was scum she would just appease 1 of the 2.
How the events happend Titus came in voting TN and supporting my side, while agreeing with my arguments against tn (I didn't realize it until she went back to show me she's been scumreading tn). Which means she was taking a side, something i said earlier i would expect scum to do, and she said scum appeases one of the 2 sides instead of taking a neutral stance, she appeased one of the 2 sides instead of taking a neutral stance.
Go look at: 1354 and tell me if it makes sense wrt the argument you had with her earlier, specially the first 3 quotes.

[Sakura Hana]

notty, why are you voting yourself?

[Sakura Hana]

Unvote
Vote: notty

[Sakura Hana]

If this game isn't going anywhere, let's lolflashlynch this.

VOTE: The Bulge

I can support this endeavour

Unvote
Vote: Bulge

[Sakura Hana]

Nothing Bulge's done so far is convincing me that he's town, he's excusing his lurking which clearly isn't the reason to be scumread as noted by GIF in the previous 2 posts, not sure how to feel about Bins coming to his defense, despite acknoweldging that fact.

[Sakura Hana]

@davesaz: That's not how PoE works however, even if it's not likely for all 3 scum to lay low that's not what gave them the scumread, it just was coincidential with the people that were laying low.
@Bulge: Is fabricating reasons out of their ass, from the reason to town-read Team 9 to the reason to decide to not town-read Team 9, I've seen hydra partners argue in-thread from both sides of the spectrum, hydra dissonance is anti-town if anything (tho in this case it isn't technically dissonance since they agree), 1 hydra partner quoting other and saying "Oh I agree on this too!" shouldn't make a difference on your tell if it only happened from one side, since you're taking into account one calling for one another, if this makes a difference, then you're looking at something else entirely, not the fact that you're presenting in your answer, but you decided to use this reasoning as pushing for Team 9 scum (because the town-tell wasn't there), without giving any further reasoning on your scumread, and you still haven't countered their PoE reasoning, to do this you'd have to argue that one of their townreads isn't town, instead you went back to your activity/lurking reasoning, which means your scum read is fabricated and you're scum.

[Sakura Hana]

He voted me for DOING NOTHING, as you can see... there's a lot of other people... more guilty in that offense.

"Hai there's a lot of ppl more guilty than me ergo i'm not scum"
Before we go down the road of who's more guilty let me remind you that there's more than 1 scum.

@Sakura: Punctuation (in particular periods) and line breaks are your friends.

First I should start off by saying that I'm not against the read per se, and have no desire to defend any individual. I'm just pointing out from a pure logic point of view that it is far more likely to be at least a little wrong than it is to be totally right. With that in mind...

The PoE is valid only if all the underlying town reads are valid. Worst case, 3 of the people read as town are actually mafia, and the 3 "eliminated" people are actually town. Best case it's 100% inaccurate and we only need to lynch the 3 identified people to win. I expect both edge cases to be false, and the truth lies somewhere in between. If Team 9 is town, then these 3 players are most likely to be 1 town 2 mafia, or 2 town 1 mafia. If team 9 is mafia, then all 3 of these players are probably town, or one of them might be mafia and it's a soft bus.

To sum that all up, we can't take the PoE for granted. But I think there may be 1-2 scum in those 3 players.

BTW, how would someone who is innocent defend against a PoE read anyway? I don't think I've ever seen one used this early in a game.

Just like PieInNatirasha (God that sounds horrible), My reasoning also started as some sort of PoE, tho my PoE was different from PieInNatirasha (It's more of Bins, Titus, Bulge from which only Titus is an actual scumread while the other 2 are from PoE due to being non-townreads) + Consensus because I wanted to see what would happen with the wagon, likewise I didnt like Bulge's reaction but the way he gave them a town read then suddenly dropped it and turned them into scum (While his original reason to scumread them was already bad enough) felt fabricated to me, which is why such read evolved into a scumread. So what's your current read on Team 9 and why do you think there's certain 1 scum but certain not 3 town or 3 scum on their PoE list? Do you have a town read on any of the 3?

I think these people are town, and I think that is the geniune consensus.

Am I to assume you're townreading team 9 then? In which case what does this make you think of david's reasoning re:PoE.

Note @Team 9:

Tho I don't have an issue with your PoE, i still think Gaiden's town, and i'm not sure what to think of Bert keeping slinging mud towards him but not doing anything with his accusations.
P-Edit:

(my "I haven't done anything" defense that I'm still waiting to be quoted)

I don't what you mean by this, but if you want to people quoting you doing nothing then you're in for a flashlynch.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm saying that he clearly stated his reasons for voting me and they appear in multiple other players he's not addressing.

So?

[Sakura Hana]

Why... isn't... he... mentioning... those... people?

Why would he? You were being wagoned at the time, the most logical reason is for him to go after you first.

[Sakura Hana]

Do you have no idea what's happening around you?

I'm talking about a post he made recently, where he's the only vote on me.

I would assume the reason's similar to my scumread on Bulge, which is also similar to Team 9's scumread on Bulge, which is also the reason why I kept my vote on you for a long time, and is also the reason why i still think you're scum.

[Sakura Hana]

So you're saying that my scumreads shouldn't evolve?

[Sakura Hana]

So you're saying that my scumreads shouldn't evolve?

what

Well our scumreads evolved is what i'm saying that's what im thinking is flaffy's reasoning you were doing nothing and your reactions were crap, just like bulge's reactions are crap.
Also Bert looks like he wants to support my idea of him being scum together with Bulge.

[Sakura Hana]

Gimme a better wagon

Bert's a better wagon, if he's scum with Bulge he's defending him, if he's not scum with bulge there's no town motivation for saying bulge might be a PR.

[Sakura Hana]

I repeat:

No one in this game is making any sense.

So instead of spouting that i'm not making any sense why not explain why doesn't it make any sense?

[Sakura Hana]

WHY THE HELL WOULD SCUMBERT PROTECT SCUMBULGE IN THAT MANNER

Setting up for a future fake claim maybe.
Trying to make town not want to lynch him.
Setting up for a way that if he's at L-1 and claims PR so that he's more believable.
Need any more reasons?

[Sakura Hana]

At this rate might as well mass claim D1 why dont you...

[Sakura Hana]

yeah that was over a year ago, that was the open before Syryana's

lol

remember when we were scum together in that frat game that BRO modded? that was 2013 too, we were scum, that was funny tho

Ugh

I still feel bad about making etl replace out

But being in nachos townreads gave me the warm fuzzies

OMFG both of you are scum aren't you...

[Sakura Hana]

Like Bert umprompted claims VT and you both decide to not only ignore it but fill the thread with fluff.

[Sakura Hana]

Unvote
Vote: notty

We will see about that.

[Sakura Hana]

Bulge, those 2 quotes say the exact same thing.

[Sakura Hana]

But notty's scum with bulge, he wont vote him.

[Sakura Hana]

You aren't?

If you need explanation about why it's a

town-tell

, I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

[Sakura Hana]

I am, the rest of it is explaining why it's a town-tell, so?

[Sakura Hana]

He's tripping on his own guilt.
I'll leave notty for another day I guess.

Unvote
Vote: Bulge

[Sakura Hana]

If you need

explanation

about

why

it's a

town-tell

, I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

I am reading, what are you reading?

[Sakura Hana]

I find it funny how suddenly every scum's defense against me has become "learn2read"

[Sakura Hana]

English 101 from a non-english speaker:

If you need explanation about why

it's a town-tell

The sentence starts about mentioning that they need explanation about the why of something

If you need explanation about why

it's a town-tell

Then shows what it's going to explain.

,

This line separates both sides of the sentence.

I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

It's implied that this is said explanation.

[Sakura Hana]

And then I fucking unimplied BY TELLING YOU YOU ARE WRONG

This is not how this game works.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura I'll do this your way.

If you need explanation about why it's a town-tell,

I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

If you will kindly read THE POST RIGHT BEFORE THIS ONE (if you haven't yet, fuck you), you will realize that "it's" refers to if GIF had called pie (which he didn't)

If you need explanation about why it's a town-tell,

I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it

. Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

I am explaining what isn't a town tell. Contrasting. It's simple.

If you need explanation about why it's a town-tell, I think that when one head is messing up, the other head (as scum) will try to distance and not draw attention to it.

Calling out your hydra partner on their shit is town behaviour, because it means you have nothing to be afraid of.

And now I am explaining the town-read (that never happened).

Whether it was a town-tell or not at this point or not it's irrelevant you're calling what you said a town-tell and then you said you didn't call it a town-tell, that's what your post is referring to, otherwise why the heck are you explaining your town-tell that you found?

[Sakura Hana]

That was supposed to only quote the first part but w/e.

[Sakura Hana]

Can you please just accept that you don't understand the wording of my post. Please? I promise you I didn't fucking scumslip.

I'm not saying you scumslipped, where are you getting that idea, i'm saying that you're saying you didn't do something, and i'm proving that you did in fact do that something.

[Sakura Hana]

The funny thing is how you go out of your way to explain why you didn't say said something, instead of just admiting you said it and proceed from another angle, the former is more likely to come from desperate scum to paint someone else as scum.
notty and Bins agreeing with you is heavily disturbing.

[Sakura Hana]

IT'S
BECAUSE
YOU'RE
WRONG
SAKURA

YOU'RE
FREAKING
WRONG

Good that you're so nice to explain why i'm wrong, i'm completely rethinking my case on bulge now [/sarcasm]

[Sakura Hana]

So you're trying to prove to me what you think I meant when I was saying something? Do you know what I meant better than I do?

I know what you said, becuase that's what you wrote in plain text, you're still addressing it as something you didn't say, and you're using it to fuel your case against Team 9, that reeks of scum motivation.

[Sakura Hana]

Where did I say I never said what?

IT WAS NEVER A FUCKING TOWN TELL HOLY MOTHER OF SHIT READ MY POSTS

[Sakura Hana]

The funny thing is that you're being caught because I am indeed reading your posts...

[Sakura Hana]

Pie if he is town you make me or bins a doublevoter tomorrow

Deal

I'll make you a triple voter if they agree.

[Sakura Hana]

l m f a o

I literally just quoted exactly what you asked for, in the exact post you quoted. squirm much?

^

[Sakura Hana]

Bert I hope you're excited for a varsoon wagon

The bet only stands wrt Bulge flip, unless you're talking about tomorrow.
I hope you're excited for a Bins wagon because if GIF disagrees then YOU are becoming my double vote tomorrow if Bulge flips scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Checking in.
Don't like Bulge makin things big.
Don't like the 'HE MIGHT BE A PR' stuff.
Wagon on me is totes cool.
Stickin with my votie.
Come an get it.

What do you think of Bert, notty and Bins wrt their latest posts.

[Sakura Hana]

So now im a tunnelfuck and not scum then?

[Sakura Hana]

Wall fight whoever challenges you to induce apathy

Be aggro enough so noone wants to fight you

so you're using the exact same arguments as tn now? I thought you had something original...

[Sakura Hana]

I really should just sheep bins tomorrow so she becomes a quadruple voter

Sure thing, i'm most likely going to die tonight tho. Unless scum rather keep me alive to give you the extra vote or unless you're scum.

[Sakura Hana]

We preplanned the kills to be Pie GIF N1

This won't go through, I'll make

certain

that it doesn't go through.

oh
@Sakura: while you're hear, why is Gaiden town?

-Rumia

General playstyle, it's just that my gut is pretty good at reading Gaiden, but if the town cop doesn't trust me they are free to scan him and prove me wrong (or right).

[Sakura Hana]

Because i figure she'd be the best at reading him

And she wouldn't have to misread him as scum because it could tip him off

And what if they are both scum? Have you ever considered that?

[Sakura Hana]

There's another thing tho:
I currently don't think scum you would make such a bet knowing that Bulge would flip scum because it puts you at a disadvantage of losing 1 member + being someone else's double vote.
However if you think I'm scum and you're townreading Bulge then consider what does that do to help me knowing that he will flip town being your double vote.
And if you think that I know that he's going to flip scum then you should help me bus him.

[Sakura Hana]

Holy shit Varsoon is using the Level tell.

[Sakura Hana]

Hi Marquiffy.
That slot was replaced by Thesp.

[Sakura Hana]

I think he would try hard to look town as possible.

That's exactly what he's doing tho.

[Sakura Hana]

Marquiffy you should join us on the Bulge wagon, It's better than the Thesp wagon atm.

[Sakura Hana]

Something is way fucked if I'm agreeing with Sakura about something in-game.

Why are you still voting Gaiden? Would you join on a Bulge Wagon since you're agreeing with me?

pedit sakura, if ns is saying titus tried to calm things down

then i'm voting the titus slot

Actually it's pie who said that, but he also said the timing was that it happened after things had ALREADY calmed down, while we were arguing titus took my side

[Sakura Hana]

regardless it probably happened and therefore the slot is probably scum

I agree, but i think Bulge has a higher chance of flipping scum.

[Sakura Hana]

yeah i don't like the bulge wagon

he's probtown

Well... he's not. But there's no way you'd know that without reading.

[Sakura Hana]

Well... he's not.

good case

pieguy already made a case on you there's no reason for me to add anything to it.

[Sakura Hana]

Before you go on saying he's town read at least Post #1803, and his and pie's replies after.
If after doing so you still think he's town then *shrug*
I do enjoy tunneling on scum tho, it's delicious.

[Sakura Hana]

I've countered everything and you tell me I haven't done shit against it?

Quote where you coutnered pie's case on you then?

[Sakura Hana]

*countered
Weee i can't spell today.

[Sakura Hana]

Stop asking me to quote something that didn't happen. That's like telling me to point to not an elephant to prove that elephants don't live in Europe.

OMFG it's your case on Team 9 and you're saying now it didn't happen? woooooow.

[Sakura Hana]

Stop asking me to quote something that didn't happen.

• blatant misreps around every corner
  
• avoiding questions/refusing to provide proof
  
• jumping to conclusions (confbias)
  
• distancing between heads

Why are people still townreading Team 9?

*whistles*

Inb4 you also wrote that but were thinking something else ergo you didnt wrote it

[Sakura Hana]

making up a case as they were going along.

Where is the "made up" case?

[Sakura Hana]

Yes, my scum case against Team 9 is based on the fact that they are committing towntells

You said heads calling each other out was a towntell.
Then you backtracked on it because the calling out wasnt reciprocal, and then you said it was null

hence you went back to your previous reasoning of scumreading them

But you never said what said reasoning was.
Then you said that your reasoning for scumreading them was their heads distancing each other.
Then you get called out on your flip flop about it being a town tell or scum tell
Then you say you never called it a town tell
Then I quote you calling it a town tell.
Then you say that despite it saying literally "

It's a town tell because... X

you were explaining why it's a scumtell.
Then you say we're misrepping you.
Then I say you fail at english.
Then you say that you dont.
Then I say that i proved that you called it a town tell and that you instead of admitting it and pushing a different angle, you going over semantics was because you were self conscious of guilt.
Then you ask pie to quote their body of work.
Then pie makes their case on you with quotes on what you did and your contradictions.
Then you say you ignored it because he asked you for a single post of evidence.
Then we laugh.
Then you say their case is crap without ever addressing it.
Then we tell you to quote they distancing between their heads.
Then you say it never happened.
Then you say that when you started scumreading them is when they made a made up case on you.
If this is true, this happened before the argument about the towntell started, so im asking you to quote it.

So where exactly is the town motivation behind you pushing such a BS made up case to scum paint pieinnatirasha?

[Sakura Hana]

Then you say you ignored it because you asked him for a single post of evidence.

FTFM

[Sakura Hana]

The funny thing is that i can quote him literally doing each of those things.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm literally going to stick a knife irl to anyone's chest if they are scumreading pie. This is town pie, take that to the grave (and by default that's town gif too)

[Sakura Hana]

this pie is being mean
that's not town pie

That's exactly what town pie's all about, tunneling, 1v1, etc.
Back then before i got used to pie's playstyle as town almost every single game would explode in me and pie arguing for almost the whole game.

[Sakura Hana]

Also... pie's scumgame sux, he's not cappable of tunneling like this as scum and becomes a lurkaderp.

[Sakura Hana]

Case In point: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=36919 <- ISO No Stone Unturned (Pie+Varsoon hydra). They even got prodded out due to pie's lurkaderp and varsoon being afk due to who knows what reason.

[Sakura Hana]

If you read my posts im townreading pie, and ergo townreading gif too

[Sakura Hana]

ITT: Marquiffy is a jerk.

[Sakura Hana]

In any case if anyone had any doubts to PieInNatirasha's towniness before that wall then they certainly wont have any doubts now, and if they still do then I question their towniness.

[Sakura Hana]

This is not based on specific posts, just a general feel based on all the "Team 9 is town and so am I -- you'd better not disagree with us" type material. (note, this may have never been said -- I'm not quoting tonight because I'm in a hurry)

Uh no, The only reason you'd think i'm scum is if you dont believe my gambit/soft claim to save Team 9 from a night kill, my town read on team 9 is based off a meta read on pieguy head, and now also based off GIF's reach out.

[Sakura Hana]

Because I'm not getting scummy vibes from their posts. I also liked their predecessor's one post.

Also they took stances I don't feel like people who just replaced into the game would jump to take.

Elaborate?

[Sakura Hana]

Like all they've really done is defend the Bulge

So what's the town motivation to defend someone like Bulge without reading the reason why ppl are scumreading him?

[Sakura Hana]

*mobile posting is hard*

22 walks into this game and votes Thesp, for one. And I'd like to think from scum's shoes that when you replace into a game, you at least read a bit, and then take a stance on the major wagon. Especially people who are experienced with the game who wouldn't just avoid a wagon.

Then they said Bulge is town. And okay, sure, scum could want to get town points from The Bulge's flip, but in this case, since I'm agreeing with the argument, 22 is taking a stance a lot of people are FAILING to see. The argument against Bulge looks like two girls cat fighting with their eye's closed.

Did you read GIF's reach up wall?

[Sakura Hana]

And yes, I read the wall.

Address my posts and explain them to me how those posts can come from town and more likely to come from town. Address the contradictions I mentoned and explain them to me how they are actually not a contradiction and I was missing some obvious points

22 is taking a stance

a lot of people are FAILING to see

. The argument against Bulge looks like two girls cat fighting

with their eye's closed.

Well?

[Sakura Hana]

At this point i just rather see town fail to realize Bulge's guilt and then come post-game with a "We told you so!"

[Sakura Hana]

I still think it's a TvT cat fight.

Why?

[Sakura Hana]

Because I think Bulge is town and I think Team 9 is town.

Why?

[Sakura Hana]

Like the fact that I have to ask why multiple times is obviously because you're not doing well in this regard, GIF is already asking for you guys to show him what's wrong in his argument and why is Bulge town because he's been unable to see it, me neither.

[Sakura Hana]

And it also means that you obviously didn't read GIF's wall.

[Sakura Hana]

Because Bulge's defenses look good and I feel like he's fighting a losing battle that isn't his fault. And the way he's handling that situation is town.

Which defenses look good and why?
Why do you think that the losing battle isn't his own fault?

Team 9's wall read very town. And I have a town read on them before.

So aside from reading town what else was in the wall?

[Sakura Hana]

pedit bins can be town because she's saying everything i'm thinking rn word for word. bbl

Then you're not thinking because she's not saying anything... yet at least.

[Sakura Hana]

Seriously Sakura "why" is your favourite question.

Sure, but that's because you haven't answered my question.

[Sakura Hana]

And I feel like a lot of the fight it people misrepping what he's trying to say then tunnelling very hard on the misreps and not listening to him trying to explain them.

When he's explanations are "Well you're wrong"
Oh right that's the same explanations you've said...
Hmm i'm starting to see a pattern here.

[Sakura Hana]

But I still think their missing a lot of the main points. You can't just be like "oh he's Canadian so his English is good so this can't be the case."

While agree on the "He's Canadian" part mostly for the fact that some part of Canada speaks french instead, and I've seen lots of native speakers fail at english. However you're not explaining what main points we are missing, nor have ever done, no one has, so excuse us for FAILING to believe someone is town when for us the guilt is obvious yet people never address our points, or our case or anything (not even the person that it was address to).
No one has even bothered to show us why we are wrong aside from the fact that "No bulge is right and you're wrong".
No quotes, No explanation of the town motivation behind all of the statemens that have been put forward as part of the case, etc.
P-Edit:

No, his explanations are "that's not my point." And he's telling the truth.

So what's his point then? Why do you think he's telling the truth? If you believe he's telling the truth then tell me what's his point?

[Sakura Hana]

I think Bulge's point is "Team 9 is scum because they obviously cannot read what I am saying but idk if their Canadian."

So 1) Why does such an OMGUSy reasoning come from Town
and 2) Which of his posts give you that feeling?

[Sakura Hana]

If we cannot read what he's saying, then why hasn't anyone aside from him tried to explain anything to us?

[Sakura Hana]

Because if that's the case then you can obviously read what he's saying.
P-Edit: Well show us what each of his points are referring to, and do take in mind that he already said "Distancing between heads" never happened.
P-Edit 2: "If you ISO him" Well i've been ISOing him and I don't get that feeling so you have to show me why.
P-Edit 3: Well they aren't clear because that's not how english works.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean, his explanations have come from the fact that "Yeah i wrote that, but that's not what I was thinking so you have to be a mind reader to understand"
Also I do remind you that outside communication is forbidden.

[Sakura Hana]

And yes i went there.

[Sakura Hana]

If I go through the fight and pluck out the misreps, I'd just be repeating what Bulge has been saying.

So which are said misreps then, and why are they misreps? You should've been able to know what

he meant

from reading them in plain text otherwise it doesn't count.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah, Sakura, I really don't give a shit. We haven't been out of game communicating. What's your point?

Just saying, because as I mentioned before, There's no way someone can read his posts and think "Town". Not even notty thinks he's town he's just townreading him because you are. And he already pulled the self-vote pity card as a last resort, then retracted it.

[Sakura Hana]

Seriously why is lynching scum such a frustrating endeavor, maybe i should've stayed dead...

[Sakura Hana]

There are people other than me that are reading his defences and are thinking "town." We don't have to be talking outside of the game to see that.

Who, Majiffy who didnt read anything before the replace in?
Notty who's only townreading him because he's sheeping your reads?
Who else is?

[Sakura Hana]

Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction.

1) Bulge wagon was started off PoE, not inactivity, already covered.
2) If he screwed up an explanation of the retraction, then why didn't he just admit to that instead of arguing semantics.


These points were already brought up by Team 9 right after, so what's your point?

[Sakura Hana]

And Sakura goes "ooooooooooh."

Is he scum too?

Or simply mad!

OR TALKING TO BULGE OUT OF GAME?!

Yeah I should've probably stayed dead, if you're town this kind of talk frustrates me because it comes from a confbias pro Bulge based off your relationship with him which is blindling your reads.
If you're scum then you should die anyways and idc what you say about me.

[Sakura Hana]

What was your point with 2093?

[Sakura Hana]

No, it's the damn basis of Team 9's points.

Now you're the one not reading.
Oh wait you haven't been reading this entire time! Considering Team 9 posted not only once... BUT THRICE their PoE list way before Bulge came back from V/LA

[Sakura Hana]

The PoE was strengthened by inactivity. The posts he made when VLA. You or Team 9 brought it up yourselves.

If anything inactivity was MY reasoning against Bulge.
Team 9 just PoE'd him because they were townreading everyone else, Bulge came defending himself saying "Hey dont look at my marathon games to pull any You're posting elsewhere instead of here" defense before anyone ever accused him of it, and then he began arguing that Team 9's case against them was inactivity instead of PoE.

[Sakura Hana]

The PoE should have been addressed anyways. Because the townreads were not explained which led to the PoE. They needed to be.

Yeah, but instead of asking to explain their townreads he decided to say that they were saying he was scum because of inactivity, which wasn't the point.

[Sakura Hana]

The point of davesaz's post was more that the basis of Team 9's argument is weak. Which is what I am also saying.

Considering he's already wrong on his statement that inactivity was the initial basis of the read, it kinda kills the argument.
The read came from PoE, and Bulge came arguing that their argument was based off Inactivity.

[Sakura Hana]

I think someone else mentioned it as well. Like PoE fails something something townreads something something.

Yeah I mentioned that he should've adressed Team 9's PoE instead of going #lolimbeingscumreadbecausevla

[Sakura Hana]

also davesaz said that PoE was dangerous because it wont have all 3 scum on it, but Team 9 addressed it when they said that if he's wrong about one of those 3 it's probably Bert.

[Sakura Hana]

You addres the PoE, why didnt you ask them for their townreads then?
And that still leaves Bulge using inactivity as a defense despite the initial scumread coming from PoE.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't know, maybe because I didn't think they would push Bulge that hard and take the PoE so strongly at that time.

PoE is always taken seriously, it's a strong weapon that notty usually uses too.

[Sakura Hana]

Sigh... this game... seriously, since when did MS stop being about using logic instead of using your bad english as a shield...
It makes me feel bad because I was the one that wanted to play with pieguy to have fun like in the old times and show him that mafia is fun, and now instead im the one being convinced on probably never touching a mafia game again...

[Sakura Hana]

So while Bins gets here can you walk me through this?:

who I'm reading by a gut because he just can't be read with a logic.

Technically the same could be said about Gaiden, so why the difference?

[Sakura Hana]

Umm that's not my point but you were PoEing Gaiden out as well while i told you that he was town, you disagreed, that's fine, but if you're gut reading Varsoon as town via the same logic im gut reading Gaiden as town then wth?

[Sakura Hana]

In case of Gaiden, well, I don't have much experience on him. (Nor I cared to read him)

Well idk, all games i've played with gaiden i've read him by gut and i still have 100% accuracy in reading him (Caught him as scum twice, and townread him on his other town games), which is why he says that if i'm townreading him, he's conftown and if i scumread him then he should be lynched.
Similar things happened with Cabd, except my reads on Cabd were made more on logic rather than gut, and I still have that 100% accurate read on him as well.

[Sakura Hana]

Hm

did I subconciously leave sakura out

*slaps notty across the face so hard that her hand hurts*

I can take you thinking i'm scum for some god forsaken reason.
I can take you thinking i'm scum for some sort of logic or stuff like that.

But this is like you're

consciously

wanting to piss me off rather than just want to actually read me.

You want the old Sakura back?
WELL HERE I AM AND I'M PISSED AND I HATE YOU AND ALL YOUR GUTS

I'VE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS GAME BECAUSE PIEGUY IS IN IT! AND YOU'RE JUST RUNINING IT WITH YOUR BLIND TRUST AND INDIRECT ATTACKS.
I'm tired of this game and i'm getting out, I don't care if i get banned again for using a trust tell or whatever i'm done with mafia, people don't want to use logic anymore and i think it's better i stop before it starts frustrating me more than it already is.

pie:

I'm sorry for pushing you to join a mafia game again... now i understand why you don't have fun with mafia anymore... i should've realized that sooner instead of deciding to come back...

@Mod: Replace me out.

[Sakura Hana]

Apologies if you felt guilty of what happened notty, I can assure you it wasn't your fault.

Also Varsoon that was really really really low (i already said enough in the Dead PT).

[Sakura Hana]

Being the Last scum at L-1 and having no choice but to get lynched and replacing out instead... it's like what.

#LostRespect

[Sakura Hana]

i still cant see how the fuck ppl townread tn out of our 1v1 but oh well...

[Sakura Hana]

With that said, anything I (Feirei) should improve on more in modding?

Call VTs Vanilla Townie and not Civilian.
That was the main thing that got T9 to PR Slip.

[Sakura Hana]

Other than that too, you did pretty well.

[Sakura Hana]

Dead PT if anyone wants to read it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=58896

[Sakura Hana]

I saw your doctor crumbing sakura!

Yeah i was like literally trying to tell the other Doctor that i'd protect T9, worst case scenario i would take a bullet for them because the scum couldn't be arsed to figure out whether they were doc or not (i thought they werent), and pie has a tendency to die N1 while figuring out the game during that N1... guess it's still true that he dies N1... lol.

[Sakura Hana]

Still dont feel bad about my push on Bulge tho, when i went to the Dead PT i was like "HOW THE F IS HE TOWN ASAKDJAKSDJAKSA"
Next time dont try to push everythign as a misrep u.u

[Sakura Hana]

Also Varsoon I literally felt you claimed scum to me D1.

[Sakura Hana]

That said i'm probably never playing with Bulge again, or else misunderstandings will happen again and cloud my vision.

[Sakura Hana]

Also that's like the first Non-"OMG I HATE THIS GUY" kind of "not playing with again" i ever do. But more because I just see scum motivation in everything he does and that can't be good for whichever team i play on.

@Varsoon: It IS dishonorable, replacing out just pretty much removes you from the game so you don't have to take the loss, and puts a poor fellow in your position so they can take the rope instead, it was obvious you were scum with how hard you fought your lynch that the replace out felt more like a "FUCK THIS GAME IM OUTTA HERE" than you actually trying something, so excuse me if i dont believe you.

[Sakura Hana]

hi everyone i just want to say that if you played in this game for any period of time you deserve a gold fucking medal
god bless you all :')

I don't think i deserve anything all i did was tunnel obvscum tn, get convinced by GIF, make titus replace out then tunnel on Bulge to eventually replace out of frustration.
There's no merit in that.
If a medal goes to anyone it'd be Bins for managing to stay undercover despite knowing varsoon was fake claiming and evading the kill after a doc died.

[Sakura Hana]

Idk really, my ongoing problem is the same as always, seems like it's a curse rather than playstyle related.
What good does it do to be a good scumhunter if i can never get my scumreads lynched, I guess i just sux at explaining my PoV, and if that's going to be an issue, is why I wonder why do I even play.
Pieguy managed to convince me to play again, but i'm not sure how good that will do...

[Sakura Hana]

Also I still don't even know why ppl even call me good at scumhunting tbh.

[Sakura Hana]

If it was suicide you should have self hammered or at least stopped with the AtE instead of replacing out.
Heck there's even such a thing as raising the white flag which is way less dishonorable. Like a true samurai.

[Sakura Hana]

But Bulge scum is a lot more protown looking than Bulge town.

That's kind of backwards. You can't really say we were in the wrong if even you agree that his town version is "more scum looking", or in this case "less protown looking"
Also i encourage ppl that do have this kind of situation to improve their town games because otherwise it gives their scum self more places to hide and are more likelty to get MLynched as town.

[Sakura Hana]

you should go talk to notsci about it bc he can explain why way better than me

He can talk with me anytime, he even has my skype despite he never being online on it '-'
How am i supposed to talk with him about it or even know about it if he never tells me?

[Sakura Hana]

I'm legit pissed that tn's being obvscum and no one even cares about lynching him, my townread on pieguy's suffering because of that hard defense of him

True feelings.