Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[Garmr]

Omg yes yes i get to vote first
VOTE: Brian Skies

[Garmr]

Hey fferyllt what's up.

[Garmr]

Yep lets vote out all the townies fferyllt. They will never suspect us.

[Garmr]

Everyone seems to be claiming miller these days maybe it's a new meta rolling in.

[Garmr]

@Smudger
Garmer is a dog that guards the underworld in norse mythology. The picture in my profile is Garmr, he is said to be stained in the blood of the dead.

[Garmr]

In post 63, Smudger wrote:
question is it a miller or is it another PR with a win condition that means it must lynch?

Don't over-complicate things. I'm a miller.

Also would like to point out that there may only be 3 win conditions per normal rules. Mafia/werewolfs,Pro-Town and Serial Killer. As stated in the site wide rules.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

[Garmr]

I'm new to that term what does townbloc mean???

[Garmr]

Well I only Rvs'ed Brian and Miller claims make me shiver because i don't know what to do with them. Also another one of my games on it's first day is 21 pages with 5 or 4 more days to go and is finally slowing down. So my first serious read is this

UNVOTE: Brian skies

VOTE: Notscience

His plays appear all wrong to me. Post 30 and 33 seem to be pushing for the fact that Brian looks townish then she votes him in post 35 she also has no reason no problems with that. No one talks about his change of heart ask questions as hmm seems to answer everything. Aeronaught seems like a easy target for him to latch onto as well I have him as a null read. Also Claims Smudger is scum 2 with just one sentence asking why he has early reads. This to me isn't really the best scum sign I personally was having a hard time reading this game as well. Also post 105 and 107 make me uneasy seems to be pushing to look town. He makes me feel really uneasy.

[Garmr]

When i meant him as a null read i meant aeronaught, Notscience is scummy.

[Garmr]

I think I did a pretty good push on you myself . Your reaction to one vote on you is pretty defensive as well with out actually trying to debunk any my reasons. Trying to intimidate me off a vote isn't going to work.

[Garmr]

Your not obvious town through that's the thing. How can you think of yourself as obvious town you haven't proven otherwise.

[Garmr]

I will reword it into dot points for you what was in my post
1.Makes an effort to claim they are obvious town
2.Post 30 and 33 seem to imply Brian is townish still votes him 35 with the reason being hmm.
3.Claim smudger is scum when he mentions how early your scum read is in 53. I personally wouldn't pick this as scum point
4.In fact 53 was another vote with out a reason
5.In my post I had aeronaught as null read at the time.


Now we can also add in defensive about having one vote on you which makes a total of 5 scum points and me having a null read on aeronaught.

[Garmr]

@Notscience
1.Seriously it isn't true your not obvious town no one is at this point.
2. You never mentioned that
3. You called someone out for being scum with no reason at all
4. No defence here i see or will you just sheep it.
5.I don't care that you don't care that was just listing the content of my posts. Contents something your posts lack

@Everyone else that isn't notscience

For people who played with him before. Does he always play like a VI or is this scum notscience.

[Garmr]

I hate being messed with hmpph.

[Garmr]

What's up kaze and can I ask why I am voted.

[Garmr]

Oh ns = not science still don't see why him is town or why you are doing a chainsawing vote for him.

[Garmr]

@ kazekirimaru
Lol and you pretty much being jumping on every wagon since the start of the game. The only time you voted someone who wasn't on wagon is when they are voting your scum buddy. Please be less obvious. Theroy 1 kaze and NS are scum buddies.

[Garmr]

Theory*

[Garmr]

happy bday

[Garmr]

Hey kaze you pretty much got your wish
VOTE: Kazekirimaru

I wasn't getting defensive i was pointing out facts. Also wtf I have been doing more than just reacting I went for NS that you said yourself hypocrite much. That's called scum hunting Kaze. Your vote on me was a obvious chainsaw lets have look. at your reason

I think I'm going to

VOTE: Garmr

All they're really done is berate ns this game.

Seriously your reason for voting me is because I been focusing on one person for my votes. Because I Don't jump on to bandwagon I don't think are scummy. But hey I have gave my opinions of them at least. You seem to be way more defensive than any of my responses anyway and your the one on the attack isn't that strange.

(out of context.)On a side note i should really stop playing favorites with my mafia games and treat them all equal.

[Garmr]

But yeah if Garmr were OMGUSing any harder he'd be driving up here and

slapping me in the face with his dick.

My goodness.

Kaze I thought you said we'd keep that quite

[Garmr]

quiet

[Garmr]

Damn i was ninjaed with out being able to respond correct.

[Garmr]

@kaze It's not really Omgus when your being so scummy about it. Also your using OMGUS wrong because I do have reasons for voting you. A OMGUS vote is to describe outrage as the reason for why someone voted them I had valid reasons before i actually voted.

[Garmr]

What when did I say you were my number one scum read after voting me. I did say theory 1 you and NS are a scum team due to your defense of her. But that was theory not me saying you were my number 1 scum read. The way you chainsawed is extremely suspicious.

[Garmr]

But i was being serious it's not funny

[Garmr]

Oh really sorry i misunderstood.

[Garmr]

Sleepy I think I know what brian skies is talking about in this post

SK - Aeronaut is a player I can see jumping on a large wagon for absolutely zero reason. SK has been pretty town since replacing in.

Why and why

I Think I know why Brian is thinking this way But it's on going game stuff so I wouldn't say it.

[Garmr]

I'm not going to say it I just didn't want brian to get mod killed and end the day prematurely.

[Garmr]

Well i'm tired and pulled an all nighter I'm going to bed.

[Garmr]

I get the Maestro wagon then I don't get the maestro wagon at the same time. I know he posted 4 useless things then vanished and i can understand getting rid of lurkers but then you just get votes like this.

VOTE: Maestro

You can't really get information out of lynch. There's no pressure in voting for him because he won't respond. He will eventually get replaced out if it continues. But if he just prod dodges then That's also no good for town. I'm not the first one to bring up that there's no pressure on this wagon crashtestdummy. Should we wait for him to be replaced out because I think it's likely or should we end the day getting rid of the lurker but at the price of less information than we would of had normally (Since scum could jump on a maestro lynch with ease.

fferyllt reason for being there is a good reason. I wouldn't of picked up on that Maestro only comments on crucial points of the game.

[Garmr]

It's a good reason to be on it from when you posted it. But there are negatives to it to as well like the amount of information we will be gaining form the lynch. We had plenty of information this game so lynching a scummy looking person who has posted allot is better because we can get more information out of it.

So all in all it's a option if we don't find someone who fits this bracket.

Post allot of fluff
reasoning doesn't look town oriented
Overly defensive when voted
Hypocritical
Tries to avoid scum hunting
Opportunistic
Lies

The amount of times a person does this adds a tick if we should vote them. Kaze has displayed many of these features and this why I believe he should be lynched. The information we will gain from a Kaze lynch is more than Maestro lynch.

[Garmr]

I bolded my answers to the questions. Remember answers are linked to my thought process's not events in games.

It's a good reason to be on it from when you posted it. But there are negatives to it to as well like the amount of information we will be gaining form the lynch. We had plenty of information this game so lynching a scummy looking person who has posted allot is better because we can get more information out of it.

So all in all it's a option if we don't find someone who fits this bracket.

Post allot of fluff

Is this alignment indicative?

Fluff can be used to confuse people and it depends when and where the fluff is placed.

reasoning doesn't look town oriented

Example? Reason why it doesn't look town oriented?

Trying to start a wagon that won't get lynched no matter what and using that as excuse not to read other players is an example I can think of off the top of my head

Overly defensive when voted

This is alignment indicative?

It depends defense and why the vote was placed.

Hypocritical

This is alignment indicative?

Yes it is because scum tend to start slipping up when all there votes tend to go to town players and inconsistencies arise.

Tries to avoid scum hunting

Where?

I am using it as example I haven't seen a player do it this game yet

Opportunistic

Possibly

Lies

Examples?

Claiming a role your not. Claiming to be offline and weren't on for the day when your clearly posting in other games.

The amount of times a person does this adds a tick if we should vote them. Kaze has displayed many of these features and this why I believe he should be lynched. The information we will gain from a Kaze lynch is more than Maestro lynch.

What will we learn if he's scum? What will we learn if he's town?

Some of the stuff you've listed can point up a scum player. Especially lies. Some of it is null IMO.

Now to give a clearer reason to my thinking.
Also the information we get is in the counter arguments between players. If we lynch a lurker what arguments is he going to provided. We will have to go off the night phase alone for information in day 2. If we lynch someone who can defend themselves but still looks scummy we lynch get a flip and if his scum. BANG we can link his plays and motives to other players. if his town we can look at the votes on his wagon and look at who would have scum intentions for his lynch and it will be clearer than lynching a lurker since more information was processed.

[Garmr]

The list was to show my thought processes
but if you want me to put Kaze in it I will be happy to.
Kaze-

Overly defensive- 280, 301,302 I believes these are very emotionally over defensive

Fluffpost- It hasn't been so much fluff it's where he put it. Post 277 in response to the smack down Sleepy laid on him. and post 299 after another of sleepys awesome smackdowns. It just like he wants to draw away attention from the reasons his in the argument.

Opportunistic -I believe his votes before me where also pretty opportunistic. Highlight the aero and Maestro wagon here please.

Reasoning doesn't look town orientated-
Going for a lurker wagon. Jumping on the Aero wagon with little reason this ties in to the opportunistic one as well. Also the chainsaw with notscience.

Hypocritical-
Going to steal plums reasoning for this post 27 and 32 clash with each other. He doesn't know what to do with miller claims yet they have to be scum orientated or town. He only changes his tone after someone else says something. Could of used it to Cause confusion.





Trying to use reasons I haven't listed before. I always keep a few held back to see if someone thinks the same as me and to encourage a little scum hunt when I bring people into the spotlight.

[Garmr]

@Empire are you free to do any hydras because your meta reads just blew my mind and I feel like I can learn allot from you.

[Garmr]

Maestro posting to join a new game his abandoned this one hasn't he. ;/

[Garmr]

I know but he could of said a sorry or something.

[Garmr]

Then I must say sorry to maestro then

[Garmr]

Mod

I'm sorry that was my first prod ever.

Well I haven't really got much to say except I still think kaze is the best lynch for today.

[Garmr]

Channeldelibird Just curious how would a Brian flip tells us more about kaze. I'm kinda confused in that way because i don't see a deep connection between them two.

[Garmr]

I get what your saying now and you do have a point. But there's a chance that Brian flips town and kaze in my eyes will still be scum. Wouldn't it be better to vig Brian if we have one?

[Garmr]

I get your point and Brian hasn't exactly been the most helpful to town. Still prefer a kaze lynch through but willing to go Brian if that doesn't go through.

[Garmr]

I think I missed the boat here but which two players are neighbors.

[Garmr]

I find spirex a null but I still don't think notsci is town.

[Garmr]

Well I'm going to be honest I've become really lost in this game. So if someone starts questioning me I might get back into the loop.

[Garmr]

Aghh there we go this will get me back in tune. Well I didn't like the fact Brian went silent for a large portion of the game 143 to 319. His response to the wagon is nullish pretty much saying please lynch me. I got him as a null read claim aside and still think a Kaze lynch is a better lynch.

But sleepykrew If you don't want to develop a read how are you going to make a good case to conveince others.

[Garmr]

Well Hey there peabody. I suspect your slot as scum convince me otherwise.

[Garmr]

Well peabody May be a while and even through I didn't like kaze's way of acting

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nonscience

Round two ding ding 471 is the only post that looks like scum hunting between 246 and 635. That's along time to not give any reads on a player. He just seems to be dodging that prod and riding those waves off ohh his town early game.

[Garmr]

@Peabody You linked me to plums post I don't understand. Through if you mean kaze being on every major wagon with little reason yeh that's a scum tell. Your other point is my system is robotic. It helps me factor out my personal emotion and i could use it if I was scum if I used it to hide behind a mislynch but we haven't mislynched anyone and i'm not hiding.

@Peabody what do you think on your predecessors behavior.

[Garmr]

Why is it bad and pointless.

[Garmr]

Oh ok never thought of it that way.

[Garmr]

Aghh sorry i was going to post in the morning which would of been 1 day and 23 hours (pushing it close) but I over sleeped. My opinions really haven't changed

scum read
Notscience
peabody


town
ferrylt
Sleepy krew
CrashTestDummies


Null- The rest.

[Garmr]

Oh I should of mentioned those reads are in order. You moved down to scum number two.

[Garmr]

I always had a scum read on NS, also I had scum read on kaze slot as well and I wanted to see if you would change that so far you haven' but you knocked it down a bit. It's hard to get rid of that feeling kaze was scum and read you fresh.

[Garmr]

When you replaced kaze I went back and looked at NS and he still hasn't done anything till post meaningful till post 784. I was just wondering why the change in play style. What made that point in time the time to change.

[Garmr]

Ok I'm just finding my opinions no matter how much the game proceeds aren't changing through I'm gaining a couple more town reads Lolwagons,Spyrx. We have 37 pages for a day and that's allot of info to process with out having a turn over. So that's kinda been hurting my brain while I sort this out.

[Garmr]

Post 847 I agree'd with allot and he makes a point about them being neighbors also a bit of gut plays in a well. Spyrex is by default as I believe NS is scum and unless they are lying about being neighbors which I kinda doubt.

[Garmr]

I have a null read on CBD but I might throw my vote on him if we run out of time and in danger of having no lynch. Still prefer A NS/Peabody lynch.

[Garmr]

Hell yeh who ever. is vig is way better at picking scum than me. I Would of shot peabody or NS.

[Garmr]

Because i'd never of shot empire he had me fooled. Also I didn't say there town and that's not what I meant to imply.

[Garmr]

@NS this was your perfect chance to vote me. I thought we were vote buddies man

@SpyreX I think it's the flavor of the kill I reread it and it had slipping pills and knifes. Sounded a little serial killerish.

[Garmr]

SpyreX you missed my vote on Peabody/Kaze

[Garmr]

Oh don't worry just realized you weren't doing every wagon my bad.

[Garmr]

Getting my thoughts together prod dodge.

[Garmr]

Well looking at the past day I decided to throw away all my reads and reread it all again. I do not include meta in any of my reads because I don't know anyone's meta. Also I am starting to think kaze/peabody was town due to fferylt case and my new scum suspects view of them. Ns is still shifty through.

Looking back I think CDB was most likely to be scum. He stayed well clear of the empire wagon and didn't really talk about it and when some asked him in post 455 I believe it was fence sitting. I know I know I thought empire was town as well but i was to busy tunneling kaze and peabody jumping to the conclusion they were a scum team. CDB seemed to push hard on the Brian wagon I believe this wagon was to stop any empire wagon from building up.

I didn't think much of it at the time but

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

I get what your saying now and you do have a point. But there's a chance that Brian flips town and kaze in my eyes will still be scum. Wouldn't it be better to vig Brian if we have one?

I'm not saying Kaze can't be scum if Brian's town, just that I think we get a more informed decision if we lynch Brian before we decide what to do with Kaze. And, er, no, I'd rather lynch a scumread immediately than leave them to be dealt with by a hypothetical vig.

As I had Brian as a null at the time I wanted to lynch my scum over the miller and let the Vig deal with it latter which I thought would happen around night 2 since I think most people viewed brian as a null read just like me.

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

Do you really think that's a thing? I think buddies of a scummillerfakeclaim would be more inclined to at least say something about it rather than avoid it altogether (it's probably a bit of really pretentious half baked theory,

but I'm thinking pregame deliberated actions like that would compel scum to say something because it gives them an easy way to enter the gam

e).

Depends whether or not it was premeditated - I dunno if the scum got a chance to discuss it among themselves before gamestart. But, yes, I do think it's a thing.

This response to empire makes me curious. This was obviously a

empire scum slip

which Everyone seemed to miss except CDB he corrected empire on it in a way that covers it up. Empire responds with this.

In post 685, ChannelDelibird wrote:
Depends whether or not it was premeditated - I dunno if the scum got a chance to discuss it among themselves before gamestart. But, yes, I do think it's a thing.

Yeah but do you really think Brian's the kind of player to take the initiative / matters into his own hands on a risky gambit like that? Dude's a fairly new player so I doubt he'd just go off and fakeclaim miller as scum without consulting his buddies. If they didn't show up, I doubt he'd have done it. So basically, what I'm trying to say is I think your idea sounds good as a matter of general principle but I think ignores a lot of the particulars.

---

I was kinda getting the urge to vote CDB because a lot of his reasoning for townreading / suspecting notscience and Peabody in particular seemed really fake but the self deprecation bits in posts like #689 sound genuine and I'm fairly sure I've seen him be apathetic like this as town before but I'd need to double check (also minor thing, but I liked that he felt the need to continue posting during his sleeping hours as I don't really think he'd give anywhere near as much of a shit as scum).

This is the post empire acknowledges CDB responce to his scum slip up. Then he tries to cover it up even more and with the last paragraph he leaves hints for CBD to not go for Peabody and NS but to keep focused on Brian. Also to make sure he doesn't have to place a vote on CBD and keep in the town section he places a half assed reason why CBD is town.

VOTE: ChannelDelibird

[Garmr]

zipty do da zippyty prod dodge.

[Garmr]

1. I meant kaze and ns I wrote peabody by mistake.
2. I believe it was a slip but as my suspect pointed out there's players more experienced at catching things so I am going to ask them do you agree with my thinking.
3. The slip was Empire knowing that scum had pregame chat.

[Garmr]

Oh shit that seems like my third prod I still think i'm right with my vote. I also find it hard to pick out scum now.

[Garmr]

So what type of information can we gather from empires flip. I'm to lazy at the moment/hungover to search myself.

[Garmr]

@SK what happened to your full on hunting attitude you had yesterday. I understand if it's something that happens inrl, are you sick???.

[Garmr]

The slip was Empire knowing that scum had pregame chat.

This pings wrong to me. It sounds like a "How did he know we had pregame chat?"

SleepyKrew, why do you see my meta read as important to do

now

? This looks forced. Do you still have a scumread on me?

CDB's beginning posts, as I had said previously, look conducsive to someone's alignment as scum. The "What do you think of the miller situation?" looks weird to me. Maybe it's the wording.

CDB, what do you think of SK's questioning of the Maestro votes earlier in day 1?

Well Peabody they were talking about pregame chat yesterday I natrually assumed it was slip when empire flipped scum.

Empire pings wrong to me. It sounds like "how do I find a way to make a stretch."

[Garmr]

My town list overflow my scum reads and nulls is that a good or bad thing.

[Garmr]

My town list overflow my scum reads and nulls is that a good or bad thing.

Maybe you should elaborate on this more so we know what you're tryign to ask

It means that CDB and SK are my only scum reads.

You and peabody are bumped up to null GG stays a null

The rest are town reads. I never had so many reads in a game ever the most it think before this was 2-3.

[Garmr]

But It's never happened to me before having so many town reads that's why it's confusing..

[Garmr]

I mean in my whole mafia career.

[Garmr]

I mean in my whole mafia career.

How many games is that? When do you usually die?

Two finished six ongoing on here. Off site about 100 on pokemon online but I don't think you could consider them true mafia games. They are like shoving a handful of speed in your mouth and washing it down with liquid X

The ones on pokemon online are done in a couple of minutes. Usually it's follow the cop with pms and everyone's allowed to talk in the night phase. Day and night phases last 30 seconds each and there's a 30 second discussion time which inspector uses and other people usually don't. The inspector suggests a rand as he/she has knowledge of every town power role in the game since they will pm him/her.

All the roles are the same every time inspector, doctor and hooker and two vanilla mafia plus a werewolf who kills who ever targets him. Roles will only change once you hit 12 people and when it hits like 30+ is when it's pretty much really fun and stuff get's really crazy that never happens anymore through and that's why I came here. The remaining roles are shown in the top screen as well. I win allot of games there because everyone has easy to read tells because it's allot less competitive and no one even tries to fix them.

On here through Scum usually kills me night one time. I have made it to day 2 but I got mislynched because I was the only one who had a town read on mafia. My record of surviving is changing as I am experimenting changing my style in each and every game so I can make it past day 1-2 it has worked somewhat and I landed a record of day 3 so I'm quite chuffed but won't continue talk about that.
.

If you want a example of where I was town and killed night one because of my older style I got one here.

example

[Garmr]

Albert

[Garmr]

Also me and kaze/peabody had a stand off day 1 and me and notsci. SK your predecessor joined in on my scum read on. Also the counter wagon to brians wagon was an empire wagon which was the night kill who turned out to be scum as said by fferylt.

SK (the person you replaced) was acting very weird today and I currently have her as scum suspect. She went from a aggressive day 1 to a lurky day 2.

[Garmr]

Lucky SK isn't here anymore lol.

[Garmr]

Sorry sorry I was fixing up the race car my friend had a got knocked around a bit don't think to much has changed.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Albert

SK was a scum read for today. It must suck fudge to get lynched after you replace in.

[Garmr]

@fferyllt: What are YOUR thoughts on Grimgroove?

Disturbed. I know from our one prior game together that bad reads plus heavy pressure happen in your town game, but doing that accidentally as town leaves room for purposeful mislynches as scum. And I've been rehashing my concerns about the prior occupant of your slot.

We are missing a kill today. If I had to guess, I would say that notsci wasn't the scumkill. He looks more in line with motivations that would have driven an Empire kill.

@Fferylt

I don't really want to say why just yet because I could be wrong or I could jeopardize someone, but I agree with this post mostly.

@Yates

So Plum was voting for Town in both final votes while off the wagon on Albert.
Garmr was voting for Town in both final votes and was the hammer on Albert.
Peabody was voting for Town on both final votes and was the hammer on Skies.

Since I have a very strong Town read on SpyreX, I am convinced all three people voting for Plum were Town.
That also elevates the likelihood that fferylt is Town voting with Town on Empire scum Day 1 AND makes Peabody look worse for the hammer - especially given Empires position on the wagon.

I feel very good about this vote:

VOTE: Plum

Garmr and Peabody are also good votes today, but my confidence in the Plum vote is highest.

1.This case here is quite BS. You haven't even looked into the motives of the players for their votes. Use me for an example. I had ABR as slight scum read yes but I actually perfected your slot and only hammered ABR because we had one hour in the day left.

2.Add in the fact you only did final vote verdicts and didn't even use the ones that were from the day makes the story incomplete.

3.Let look at another flaw of your people who only voted town rule. If scum bus they automatically become a town read.

4.Finally what about the people that haven't flipped yet. You have already been on one town wagon and we can't prove you been on a scum wagon since the only other person you voted hasn't flipped.

We already have one scum already busted. That means there is at least one town who has voted all towns that's if a scum member didn't try to bust on empire for town cred. So your scum tell is as likely to catch town as well as scum Is it really that efficient?

Also don't get me started that the people you have suspicions on are all people that were suspicious of your slot.




FINAL VERDICT
This looks like an attempt of trying to look like your scum hunting when your really not. There's no logic behind it. I also didn't liked the CBD slot either.

VOTE: Yates

[Garmr]

EBWOP

*catch town as much as it is likely to catch scum.*

[Garmr]

This case here is quite BS. You haven't even looked into the motives of the players for their votes. Use me for an example. I had ABR as slight scum read yes but I actually perfected your slot and only hammered ABR because we had one hour in the day left.

You were willing to lynch ABR or CDB - both of whom were Town. And how does this help your case, exactly? And how does your motivation [fake or otherwise] change the fact that you hammered Town?

You pretty much dodged what I was saying and took a snippet of it then misrepped me that's pretty scummy. CBD/you hasn't been proven to us that your town. Also you have yet to show how voting all town on the final vote proves someone's scum up to day 2. Us town doesn't know who else is town and who's not (barring power roles like masons and inspectors).

I proved your way completely wrong with my post so we can to your list of scummy things.

1.Fake scum hunting.
2.Misrepping.
3.Question dodging.
4.Trying to get lynches on people who suspect.
5.Not having a real case to use on someone.
6.Potential hypocritical view points.
8 Your fallacy magically discludes you because one player you voted for hasn't flipped.


8 scum points is a awful lot of scum point to get out of one day, you really do wear your alignment on your sleeve.

[Garmr]

EBWOP

4.trying to get lynches on people who suspect you*

[Garmr]

So CTD what do you think of my case on Yates. Do you agree or disagree and also tell me the reasons why.

[Garmr]

Yates stop dodging my points and throw some cases.

[Garmr]

1.Fake scum hunting.
2.Misrepping.
3.Question dodging.
4.Trying to get lynches on people who suspect.
5.Not having a real case to use on someone.
6.Potential hypocritical view points.
8 Your fallacy magically discludes you because one player you voted for hasn't flipped.

1. You don't know how I scum hunt. I'll just let you come to me.
2. LOL - I think not.
3. See point 1.
4. What? I'm trying to get exactly 1 person lynched at a time. Today that person is Plum. Have you seen me waiver on that point?
4b. I named two people that could potentially be partners with Plum [something to be pursued tomorrow]. Coincidence that those two are the ONLY people voting for me along with Plum?
5. L-1 proves otherwise. This is the mafiascum version of pointing at the scoreboard.
6. Potential? Hang your hat on potential, bub.
7. ???
8. Except I know CDB's alignment because mod told me. So I have no need to second guess his votes.

You're kind of bad at this. Which is why my 100% guarantee stands. Try lynching me again tomorrow - even when Plum flips scum. Though sadly I suspect you wont have an opportunity since scum will assume I'm the cop. For today; how about we nail down scum Plum and worry about tomorrow tomorrow?

When i said points i meant my original post. This is just a listing of behavior I noticed I should of been more clear on this one.
My original point proves 100 percent why using this method alone with out mixing it with other types of hunting is pretty bad.

Btw nice catch on number 7 I did that on purpose to see who was paying attention .

But even so I wasn't satisfied with your answers.

1. The method you were using in a fallacy. If it is what you are using I suggest you change it after this game.
2. Well I Know so because your post response to 1337 was shit and a misrep and used bad logic.
3. how does that even relate to question 1
4. Yes it's pretty pathetic compared to others.
4B - You leave out the fact that that these 2 people who have been suspicious of your slot before you even arrived. Kinda funny how all the people on your wagon are your scum reads and one of them is guaranteed to be town. I know i'm town
5-L-1 doesn't prove other wise as others have made the case on plum and you weren't a driving factor.
6-It's why I said potential I'm unsure of plums slot.
8. But you could be lying scum for we know so it makes your viewpoint worthless on that front.

[Garmr]

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
1. The method you were using in a fallacy.
Is it? I seem to have you churning.

No it's annoying since it makes no sense after I flip town I want you to look back on this and see how my points were valid.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
2. Well I Know so because your post response to 1337 was shit and a misrep and used bad logic.
After the game I'll explain the proper use of "misrep" and "bad logic." My response to 1337 was 1340, yes? In 1340 I claimed you were willing to lynch ABR or CDB. In 1337 you admitted to voting for ABR but would have preferred CDB. So how is my assertion that you were willing to lynch ABR or CDB a misrep? K. I'll let you marinate on that one.

Yep and I marinated your stupid post and shoved it back in your mouth and now your on it chocking Like an aneroxic model chokes high calorie food. Not only did you scarecrow me by using only using a bit of the post but you even misrepped that entirely. The point was town don't know town are so you're scumtell catches town as much as scum and thus is worthless and a cheap way to look like your scum hunting. Not I didn't think those two were scum.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
3. how does that even relate to question 1
You don't know how I scum hunt. How is that hard to understand? What value is there in showing your whole hand to the table before the chips are in?

I don't know how you scum hunt but from what you are showing it doesn't look like scum hunting at all. The vote method is a cheap way of getting scumreads that are just as likely to trap town.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
4B - You leave out the fact that that these 2 people who have been suspicious of your slot before you even arrived. Kinda funny how all the people on your wagon are your scum reads and one of them is guaranteed to be town. I know i'm town

To me it looks like OMGUS. Even in the previous slot it reads like scum teaming up on a weaker Town player in an attempt to set up a mislynch. Unfortunately for you, I came in to save the slot and now you'll have to try to kill me tonight because you'll find I won't go down as easily. Sorry, dude.

Yeh it looks like your OMGUSING the people who voted you.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
5-L-1 doesn't prove other wise as others have made the case on plum and you weren't a driving factor.
You say tome-ah-toe I say toe-may-toe.

I guess I can't really argue with that people think differently and pushing this bit will lead to no where so I won't.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
6-It's why I said potential I'm unsure of plums slot.
I won't even argue this... point??? ...since it's nonsensical filler, anyway.

It a odd filter but it works and i'm not going to share how it works. Because I was using it in Game 1510 mini 1499 And I nabbed a scum first day one which everyone else had a town read on both scum won the game. But no ones been hitting the triggers as hard this game so it's a bit more confusing. You seem the scummiest person all game. So a different viewpoint isn't always bad.

In post 1357, Garmr wrote:
8. But you could be lying scum for we know so it makes your viewpoint worthless on that front.
Why can't I be an SK? Or a vig? All you know is that I'm not on your scum team. Whoops. Nice slip, broseph. To the actual point, you cried "fallacy!!!!" in your original point 8. My response was that it isn't a fallacy since I have more information than you. Since I had the benefit of already KNOWING CDB was Town, I would never have reason to question his votes or motives now would I??

I was just saying one option but isn't vig town??. Are you saying the night kills were done by two seperate none town factions whoops was that slip from you. Answering your question. Let's be logical scum instead of saying "I'm town so I'm discluded by my viewpoint" is hypocritical. Since scum lie about there roles as well. The only way someone would trust that is if you were confirmed town by an inspector or something.

[Garmr]

If you guys want a scum game for a meta read on me I just got one.
My recent scum game

[Garmr]

GG that wasn't a defence that was my first scum game ever done if they wanted to see a scum game.......

[Garmr]

@GG and everyone else who think CTD case is good.


What Ctd is saying look he hammered a scum read wait that doesn't make sense because here he says his a slight scum read that's inconstant..... How the fuck is that inconstant

When I said I only had two scum reads I didn't say look this a strong one and this a weak one I just said my two scum reads because they were my only 2 scum reads. Also yes I don't like lurkers but when I feel I have a stronger case I go for it and I feel like Yates slot is scum. So if you had a 70 percent chance of being right on 1 and 40 percent on the other what would you pick? Me I pushed for the wagon I felt would most likely flip scum. I was fine with the hammer due to time constraint. But truthfully I wanted.

Also I went for my strongest scum read and pushed for it. Also why can't my opinions change day 1. SK Basically changed his game entirely from day 1 Is he saying I have to keep my day 1 views. Even the way SK spoke changed and the way he pushed for a Brian lynch which I didn't really care for when I looked back day 2.

Also the progression thing Didn't happen in just a few posts. The way ctd posted that gives the illusion it happened quickly. Have a look at the number of posts. That happened over a 500 post period. Thats October the 14 to November 12 that's almost a month. Over a month time my read of Sk was slowly changing not like 5 posts.

It is a fucking retarded case as it relies on making it seem like I changed my mind instantly which I didn't.

[Garmr]

@GG and everyone else who think CTD case is good.


What Ctd is saying look he hammered a scum read wait that doesn't make sense because here he says his a slight scum read that's inconstant..... How the fuck is that inconstant

When I said I only had two scum reads I didn't say look this a strong one and this a weak one I just said my two scum reads because they were my only 2 scum reads. Also yes I don't like lurkers but when I feel I have a stronger case I go for it and I feel like Yates slot is scum. So if you had a 70 percent chance of being right on 1 and 40 percent on the other what would you pick? Me I pushed for the wagon I felt would most likely flip scum. I was fine with the hammer due to time constraint. But truthfully I wanted.

Also I went for my strongest scum read and pushed for it. Also why can't my opinions change day 1. SK Basically changed his game entirely from day 1 Is he saying I have to keep my day 1 views. Even the way SK spoke changed and the way he pushed for a Brian lynch which I didn't really care for when I looked back day 2.

Also the progression thing Didn't happen in just a few posts. The way ctd posted that gives the illusion it happened quickly. Have a look at the number of posts. That happened over a 500 post period. Thats October the 14 to November 12 that's almost a month. Over a month time my read of Sk was slowly changing not like 5 posts.

It is a fucking retarded case as it relies on making it seem like I changed my mind instantly which I didn't.

[Garmr]

Also CTD Before today I haven't gave opinions on lolwagons a either and we know his town. Also I gave the same amount of time to Plum as I gave to you and GG and brian skies(Who's dead). I can't be bothered focusing on this game to much. Day 1 was blagh policy lynch the miller shit I hate miller but I'm trying to get around the fact they are a popular role. Day 2 wasn't any better. It was a boring snoozefeast and day 3 is agitating because My number 1 scum read is using retarded omgus tells when he is actually omgusing me and is so fucking hypocritical with a weak defense and no one see's it from my point of veiw and CTD has chainsawed for him and the sad thing is he could be town and I want to slap the shit out of everyone who can't see what Yates is doing.

[Garmr]

ebwop
By he I'm referring being town I am talking about CTD

[Garmr]

@GG
I thought you were suspicious of me. Why aren't you pushing me. You've pretty much been on the side line letting CTD do all the work and saying "yeah I agree." Not once have you actually tried to push me. If you really suspected me I think you would of at least acknowledged what I said.

[Garmr]

I Have plum as a null but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if she flipped town because i have a scum read on yates. I do like her post 1228 I think plum handled the line of questioning well.

Also yates seems uneasy and is pushing for a lynch to end. Scum wagons tend to be the hardest to lynch and I think yates is scum and yates has been a wagon for today and yesterday. I think I found a possible scum buddy for Yates but it's to early to say because I also have had a town read on this person most the game but it is the most viable partner when yates flips scum so its conflicting.

[Garmr]

a lynch to end the day.

[Garmr]

give me a secound to post nearly done then you can

[Garmr]

Lol Sigh cCd. I seriously can't be bothered answering that shit but I will do a quick summary then. If you are somehow town I want you to say I was wrong about Garmr he was town and I am idiot after this garmr.

1. How do prod dodges change anything about the time factor. Do they magically shorten time -_-


2.I pushed for it early lets look back.

Well looking at the past day I decided to throw away all my reads and reread it all again. I do not include meta in any of my reads because I don't know anyone's meta. Also I am starting to think kaze/peabody was town due to fferylt case and my new scum suspects view of them. Ns is still shifty through.

Looking back I think CDB was most likely to be scum. He stayed well clear of the empire wagon and didn't really talk about it and when some asked him in post 455 I believe it was fence sitting. I know I know I thought empire was town as well but i was to busy tunneling kaze and peabody jumping to the conclusion they were a scum team. CDB seemed to push hard on the Brian wagon I believe this wagon was to stop any empire wagon from building up.

I didn't think much of it at the time but

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

I get what your saying now and you do have a point. But there's a chance that Brian flips town and kaze in my eyes will still be scum. Wouldn't it be better to vig Brian if we have one?

I'm not saying Kaze can't be scum if Brian's town, just that I think we get a more informed decision if we lynch Brian before we decide what to do with Kaze. And, er, no, I'd rather lynch a scumread immediately than leave them to be dealt with by a hypothetical vig.

As I had Brian as a null at the time I wanted to lynch my scum over the miller and let the Vig deal with it latter which I thought would happen around night 2 since I think most people viewed brian as a null read just like me.

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

Do you really think that's a thing? I think buddies of a scummillerfakeclaim would be more inclined to at least say something about it rather than avoid it altogether (it's probably a bit of really pretentious half baked theory,

but I'm thinking pregame deliberated actions like that would compel scum to say something because it gives them an easy way to enter the gam

e).

Depends whether or not it was premeditated - I dunno if the scum got a chance to discuss it among themselves before gamestart. But, yes, I do think it's a thing.

This response to empire makes me curious. This was obviously a

empire scum slip

which Everyone seemed to miss except CDB he corrected empire on it in a way that covers it up. Empire responds with this.

In post 685, ChannelDelibird wrote:
Depends whether or not it was premeditated - I dunno if the scum got a chance to discuss it among themselves before gamestart. But, yes, I do think it's a thing.

Yeah but do you really think Brian's the kind of player to take the initiative / matters into his own hands on a risky gambit like that? Dude's a fairly new player so I doubt he'd just go off and fakeclaim miller as scum without consulting his buddies. If they didn't show up, I doubt he'd have done it. So basically, what I'm trying to say is I think your idea sounds good as a matter of general principle but I think ignores a lot of the particulars.

---

I was kinda getting the urge to vote CDB because a lot of his reasoning for townreading / suspecting notscience and Peabody in particular seemed really fake but the self deprecation bits in posts like #689 sound genuine and I'm fairly sure I've seen him be apathetic like this as town before but I'd need to double check (also minor thing, but I liked that he felt the need to continue posting during his sleeping hours as I don't really think he'd give anywhere near as much of a shit as scum).

This is the post empire acknowledges CDB responce to his scum slip up. Then he tries to cover it up even more and with the last paragraph he leaves hints for CBD to not go for Peabody and NS but to keep focused on Brian. Also to make sure he doesn't have to place a vote on CBD and keep in the town section he places a half assed reason why CBD is town.

VOTE: ChannelDelibird

what your trying to do here is make me look like I did nothing all day by listing two prod dodges. That's kinda fail.

Also the fact he had rl issues didn't stop you from lynching him did it.

Grimgroove, NS, Peabody, Fferyllt seem to be online. Basically the entire "lynch ABR, don't lynch Plum" crew (and Ffery). I'm willing to lynch ABR under these circumstances, but we might not have the votes.

You were dead sure that plum was a scum read why didn't you push harder for plum judging by today's response you could of got it.

btw CTD you can suck a fuck.

[Garmr]

You can hammer now. fferylt

[Garmr]

I don't really care to be honest I'm pretty pissed a ctd

[Garmr]

I'll be back in 30-40 i need to take my frustrations out on some scrub in league of legends.

[Garmr]

tree lame???

[Garmr]

To be honest, I thought it was you

Look. It's like this.

Plum is scum.

*I* am the cop.
CTD is town.
SpyreX is Town neighbor.
fferyllt is the doc.

fferyllt saved SpyreX last night as an obvious neighbor save.

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

That leaves the remaining scum in you, Garm, and Peabody. That's why the conversation today is doing nothing.

Hammer at will.

This sounds like a tracker report more than a cop report but that's just my opinion on it.

[Garmr]

@FFerylt
I wouldn't go to deep into night kill speculation. You could completely wrong about who the killer is or his limitations and that could end in terrible consequences like a mislynch or a stray night kill.

[Garmr]

Well that's surprising. Why do i get the feeling someones trying to set me up.

[Garmr]

Oh fferyllt I am going to be honest I don't have the ability to kill at night I was subtly hinting at it in my previous posts so mafia would kill me in the night phase thinking I was the Vig or SK.

[Garmr]

Yates?

Oh. Yeah. About that.

I lied. Whoops.

Lied about what??

[Garmr]

I knew that sounded like a tracker report.

[Garmr]

Also has anyone considered it might of been a one shot vig and not actually a sk or a vig who can continue shooting.

[Garmr]

Peabody, claim your results.

It's probably time to massclaim anyway.

Wait how much am I missing Peabody is cop?????

Anyway I am VT

[Garmr]

Oh fferyllt I am going to be honest I don't have the ability to kill at night I was subtly hinting at it in my previous posts so mafia would kill me in the night phase thinking I was the Vig or SK.

Or SK? Why would you care if scum kill an SK? And when did you start subtly hinting?

Read it again please. I was hinting at being either to try and draw away from the power roles. I started as early as day two with that fake congratulating the doctor tell.
To be honest I expected to be shot night 2 or night 3.

Hell yeh who ever. is vig is way better at picking scum than me. I Would of shot peabody or NS.

[Garmr]

@Peabody
I am now thinking CTD could be a one shot vigilante.

Also FFerylt is acting funny, her recent behavior suggest she was acting by a plan.

Oh fferyllt I am going to be honest I don't have the ability to kill at night I was subtly hinting at it in my previous posts so mafia would kill me in the night phase thinking I was the Vig or SK.

Or SK? Why would you care if scum kill an SK? And when did you start subtly hinting?

This seems to be tying to push me to be a SK which I am not. Also

Garmr's reaction to the 2nd kill on day 2 bothered me.

The main problem I have with Plum's play is that it seems to have no objective. Not in a town wandering around lost way, but more like which wagon went through on day 2 didn't really matter.

I dunno. Her play style is hard for me to process.

Intent to hammer

I have a theory about the 2nd kill being SK and who the SK would be, but I don't want to float it in case the player is the 2nd killer but is vig.

I expect anyone would conclude similarly if we continue to see either additional kills or kills that don't look scum-motivated, so I'll leave it at that for now.

These posts make me believe that the Not science night kill and the Grimgrove night kill where to set me up as today's mislynch and the most likely to do that is FFerylt. Thus I conclude that FFerylt is most like to be scum followed by Yates and then if none of those are scum Spyrex.

[Garmr]

Actually scratch that. Yates is also a candidate for Vig and Spyrex is a neighbor so i'm just going to focus on Fferylt for a bit I don't believe her Bullet proof claim.

[Garmr]

Going to make my case on fferylt if someone claims vig and owns up for the kill on empire it blows it out the water through.

[Garmr]

Ok will wait.

[Garmr]

wait spyrex arn't you the neighbor

[Garmr]

so we have like 3 confirmed towns I think we are in a good spot.

[Garmr]

Well I think a fferrylt lynch is a great idea and with a doctor,Vig and inspector we pretty much won this game. Anyway If fferrylt is somehow town we lynch CTD there is no way we can lose.


VOTE: fferrylt

[Garmr]

Your flip I presume is scum but I wonder if you have a role FFerylt. Were you rolecop or Just vanilla scum. Maybe you were a tracker.

[Garmr]

This game is in the bag anyway there's no way for town to lose just lynch her.

[Garmr]

I went so far as to be sure that a doctor wasn't off the table in scum calculations yesterday if they had already targeted me, when as VT I would have let the assumption that I was doc lie and hope to soak up the night kill.

Then why wouldn't you do the same as a 1-shot BP? This also does not add up. Your job as BP is to draw a NK. Your play flies in the face of this. Why *NOT* let scum think you are the doc? Heck, why not just CLAIM doc?

You are caught scum. Your claim is quite obviously fake. And your play yesterday - especially late in the day - is enough to incriminate you.

BECAUSE MISSING KILLS.

If I have been targeted, then I CAN'T be doc in their calculations. Scum would know that if they targeted me.

You could of targeted the same player it's that simple.

[Garmr]

Town has won fferylt what don't you understand if your town why are you worried.

[Garmr]

Spyrex can kill yates if you flip town and if yates is somehow also town we lynch CTD it's that simple.

[Garmr]

Also if spyrx is scum which I doubt we get peabody to inspect spyrex since he will be safe because yates is the doctor. No matter the circumstance we win.

[Garmr]

who's the miller and no i'm not the godfather -_-

[Garmr]

Because I been up all night and it's 6 47 am. But like you said a Godfather/miller combo punishes town badly.

[Garmr]

Garmr's potential as scum just raised a few points IMO. One of the major themes of day 1 and he doesn't remember. It must not have mattered to him on day 1.

Stop trying to wiggle your way out your scum and it ends today.

[Garmr]

I was trying to sound cool shh yates.

[Garmr]

*puppy eyes*

[Garmr]

you consider grim formidable when others considered him a easy lynch and now his dead that's not really making the case is it.

[Garmr]

Just shoot CrashTextDummie his the wild card and investigate either yates or Spyrex doesn't matter which. It's either 3 players or 4 players and 3 players is better.

[Garmr]

Just shoot CrashTextDummie his the wild card and investigate either yates or Spyrex doesn't matter which. It's either 3 players or 4 players and 3 players is better.

Investigation on SpyreX is worthless. He's either a Vig or an SK. They would both come back clean to a cop.
Investigation on me is worthless. I'm either a doc - as I claim - or I'm dead when the cop turns up dead in the morning [ie. you wouldn't get the result].
CTD is the ONLY investigation needed.
And we will know his alignment in the morning.

That's why I'm against SpyreX shooting. This way if CTD comes up clean, the discussion about a GF comes back into play. Since I will be dead for that discussion, you are the one that makes the most sense as a GF in that specific scenario.

I'm fairly confident [like - 90%] in the fferyllt flip but this is a fun exercise to brainstorm in case of a similar situation in future games. So, I'm willing to indulge for the sake of practice.

Yates if you are scum and fferylt flips down what you are pushing is the ideal situation. Not only that you would push a mislynch on on me claiming I am the God father. My situation is allot better since i would be lynched anyway with 3 people left.

[Garmr]

your ideal situation if your scum.

[Garmr]

It begins What's the verdict on ctd

[Garmr]

Peabody would like to point out that we already had a flipped Roleblocker and a grunt do you think a god father is likely for this set up. Also another reason I asked for spyrex to kill ctb and you to investigate yates or vice versa was if we had two kills he would be proven innocent automatically and we wouldn't be in this mess.

[Garmr]

I still want to hear what ctd has to say through but I guess you make sense. Should we no lynch and make it 1 out 3 chance instead of a 1 out 4

[Garmr]

VOTE: CTD

if your a sk spyrx you deserve this win.

[Garmr]

so where you serial killer.

[Garmr]

wouldn't it happen simultaneously.

[Garmr]

GJ spyrex who ever brought up god father should be shot.

[Garmr]

Yates brings up god father and then saying serial killer won't show up wifoming town to oblivion. Oh well I should take some of the blame to.

[Garmr]

^Will agree with this I had allot of fun.