Newbie 1428 Game Over

[Grimgroove]

Highlighting certain parts works with the normal quote button, but not the multi-quote.

Wow! I never knew

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.03

BigTerp - 3 - Cheery Dog, Ravenpaw, Dyslexicon
Banksys Flareon - 1 - pieguyn
Cheery Dog - 1 - Banksys Flareon
Michael_Wolf - 1 - BigTerp

Not Voting: Michael_Wolf, Grimgroove, Cat Clancer

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-09-11 03:15:51)

[BigTerp]

What are the trivial matters that he sounds nervous over?
And you didn’t actually give a stance on Bigterp in the above response, so what do you read him as?

His read on Cheery Dog, his stance on early L-1 and L-2's.

You asked me for my thoughts and I gave them. You didn't ask for a "stance". My only stance is that I think he sounds nervous, which is possibly a scumtell, but not necessarily. I've seen people before who considered themselves easy targets, and people with that mindset tend to get nervous more easily, regardless of alignment. Remember Candillan? I'm sure you do.

How does my read on Cheery Dog look nervous to you? And I don't get what you mean by my stance on early L-1 and L-2. I will agree that I've been defensive though.

[Michael_Wolf]

Unfortunately this is just a quick prod dodge. I'll be away the rest of today and Saturday but promise to catch up and join the hunt Sunday and Monday.

If anything has been addressed to me so far I'll get back to you on Sunday.

[pieguyn]

You're misrepping Bigterp here, his last 3 posts aren't just agreeing with people.
Pie, who do you think is scum?

oops, I remembered it wrong
but there were 2 posts right before that that were pretty much agreeing with people:

I have Cheery as a null to town read right now. I think his focus on the silly voting early on could be a way for a townie to get some discussion going on, which is always a good thing. But I have to agree with Grimgrooves post 48 about how Cheery has "already picked out his dogs". But I have to lean towards Cheery is just trying to poke at a few and see what responses he gets.

I have to somewhat agree with this. It seems as if Cheery is grasping for straws to try and get some suspicion going for, IMO, weak reasons.

ok it ended up being 2 out of 3. Still suspicious IMO
probably my top scumread right now is BigTerp, for that reason. second at this point is Banksys cause she's not posting like at all and just letting all this happen

What does this mean?

we'll see :>

[Cheery Dog]

EBWOP: sorry, forgot this
IMO BigTerp just seems to be sitting and agreeing with everyone instead of coming up with stuff individually. maybe I missed something but afaik the last 2 or 3 posts he was just agreeing with people, seems suspicious IMO

The only thing I currently see him agreeing with is Grim's post on me, but then again they both have different reads there.
Can you show where the agreeances are happening for future posts you make like this? (just so we can get a better understanding of where you're coming from. It also lessens the pertectual of having misreps occur accidentally.)

Could be interperted as either of you being mobbed up with Michael_Wolf.

Do you personally interpret those movements in that way?

[Banksys Flareon]

First of all, SORRY FOR NOT POSTING.

I got the FBI virus (for those of you who don't know what it is, it was a thing like a year ago and is scary as fuck, you should look it up). So I've spent the last couple days trying to save my dying baby, but lo and behold, success!! I have returned it to life, so now I will take an active role in this game.

unvote

Ravenpaw is scum.

VOTE: Ravenpaw

(Yes, I am entirely serious).

[Banksys Flareon]

@CheeryDog: I would love to hear your most recent opinions on Ravenpaw and Dyslexicon

[pieguyn]

ohi

unvote

Can you show where the agreeances are happening for future posts you make like this? (just so we can get a better understanding of where you're coming from. It also lessens the pertectual of having misreps occur accidentally.)

I can't guarantee I'll be 100% successful but I'll try

oh I just noticed something

Regarding the bolded: if you're okay with that, why haven't you done that here?

being OK with something != doing it every time. I'm really not sure what to make of that.

[Banksys Flareon]

Ohio goizaimas! Demo, jyu ji desu... gogo.

Anatahadare o utagau nodesu ka?

[Cat Clancer]

Sorry for my absence, everyone. Friday is a busy day, I will catch up the reading tomorrow.

[Nobody Special]

Ohio goizaimas! Demo, jyu ji desu... gogo.

Anatahadare o utagau nodesu ka?

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1.

Bold, blue

text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.

Please do not post in any language other than English. Foreign languages fall under the category of cryptography.

[Ravenpaw]

This feels like you're now trying to distance yourself from your previous stance.

Not at all. I made a general statement that I'm ok with an early L-2 or even L-1. My post was nit picked to hell and back, so I had to explain it in further detail.

Fair enough, but given it's forum mafia you gotta be prepared to have what you write be torn apart.

You sound nervous here. Why do you see yourself as an easy target?
Also you are misrepping the situation badly here because as soon as the vote count was posted to show Michael at L-2 Grim suddenly unvoted him (which you have ignored in you retelling of the situation), I then voted you a few posts after this, as did Dyslexi. So yeah, Michael was not even at L-2 long enough for it to be argued as scum trying to create a desperate counter-wagon.
Big, what are the poor reasons you've been voted for?

I see myself as an easy target because, again, for whatever reason my posts were getting questioned pretty heavily. A vote or 2 moved my way, and now I'm at L-2. Seems like mafia working a wagon in my direction.

Could be, but Cheery, myself and Dyslexi were all pushing you for answers, and that discussion has been good for creating more information and getting us away from RVS. If you are town I’d say that Grim’s and Pie’s reaction to you were the most scum like. Both gave general blanket statements about why you’re suspicious, yet made no move to vote you or try to scumhunt you to extrapolate more information. That is pretty scummy from my pov and it should be from yours too if you’re town.

Your right, I didn't realize Michael was no longer at L-2. Grims posts were a bit confusing though. In 48 I thought he was voting Cheery, but he didn't highlight it. I saw he unvoted, but didn't realize it took his vote off of Michael. The poor/weak reasoning for votes on me involve me saying I'm ok with an early L-2 or L-1. That all of a sudden became the focus for alot of people and reasons to vote me.

I found a contradiction in your posts, and I find contradictions scummy, that’s how I roll.

I know I've been a bit defensive, but you guys are barking up the wrong tree. I got a bit frustrated with having to explain, in great detail, this post 31. Instead of me being able to do some scumhunting and working on discussions with other players, I've been forced to continue to have to explain what, IMO, was a pretty general post.

Hmm I like this, it sounds genuine. I'm gonna move you to my town pile now.

[Ravenpaw]

What are the trivial matters that he sounds nervous over?
And you didn’t actually give a stance on Bigterp in the above response, so what do you read him as?

His read on Cheery Dog, his stance on early L-1 and L-2's.

How is Big giving his read on Cheery a trivial matter?
And can you quote exactly the nervous parts of those posts please.

You asked me for my thoughts and I gave them. You didn't ask for a "stance".

Oh come on, really? It should've been obvious when asking for thoughts that it implied what your position was on them.

My only stance is that I think he sounds nervous, which is possibly a scumtell, but not necessarily. I've seen people before who considered themselves easy targets, and people with that mindset tend to get nervous more easily, regardless of alignment.

So he's null to you?

Remember Candillan? I'm sure you do.

Lol, the guy that voted me in lylo giving the obv.scum the win? How could I forget

Oh, missed that:
@Ravenpaw:
And the reason I asked about Dyslexicon is 1. to pull you out of your unilateral questioning-status

This is a weird reason.

and 2. because I think he made the most memorable action of the first two pages and should be worth everyone's consideration.
His vote showed a certain carelessness that I'd associate with a town-mindset rather than a scummy one, but his reaction to when he finds out he put someone at L-1 sounded a bit too off-hand.

Hmm I guess I can see that, but his other posts have been good, you agree/disagree?

Also Grim, why aren’t you voting?

[Ravenpaw]

What does this mean?

we'll see :>

Huh? Why did you say Cheery was town then?

First of all, SORRY FOR NOT POSTING.

I got the FBI virus (for those of you who don't know what it is, it was a thing like a year ago and is scary as fuck, you should look it up). So I've spent the last couple days trying to save my dying baby, but lo and behold, success!! I have returned it to life, so now I will take an active role in this game.

unvote

Ravenpaw is scum.

VOTE: Ravenpaw

(Yes, I am entirely serious).

Why?

[Ravenpaw]

One more...

I don't see anything wrong with L - 1 so soon as long as no one hammers (which shouldn't happen if people read the thread), so imo that seems like he's just trying to blend in and seem town

Pie said this earlier and has said that Bigterp is his number 1 suspect yet did not vote him, and instead voted someone else.
Anyone see the town motivation in this? Because I don't.

Unvote: Bigterp
Vote: Pieguy

@Cheery- what are your thoughts on Big's recent posts?

[Grimgroove]

Could be, but Cheery, myself and Dyslexi were all pushing you for answers, and that discussion has been good for creating more information and getting us away from RVS. If you are town I’d say that Grim’s and Pie’s reaction to you were the most scum like. Both gave general blanket statements about why you’re suspicious, yet made no move to vote you or try to scumhunt you to extrapolate more information. That is pretty scummy from my pov and it should be from yours too if you’re town.

Don't give yourself too much towncred. Like I said before, you have assumed a position of unilateral questioning where you ask a barrage of questions to everyone in a seemingly, and I'd say obviously, random way. While the effort is applaudable, juxtaposting your inquisitive behavior with my observational one as one being town and one being scum is too easy. Anyone can ask questions, what is truly important is the leap from those questions to an actual case. Suffice to say I do not like your leap.

Tell me, what three questions that asked were by you of the most help to you, and should be of particular help to all of us, and why?

I see for instance you asked me for "my thoughts" on BigTerp, a question that I answered with an observation of his nervousness. You skillfully (and from my PoV I'd say: maliciously) skew this into me making "blanket statements", but tell me, is there anything disagreeable with my statement that BigTerp is acting nervous? And that nervousness is a nulltell?

[pieguyn]

BigTerp already had a lot of votes so I figured it was better to vote someone with no votes to get more discussion going. incidentally my read ended up being completely useless

Huh? Why did you say Cheery was town then?

cause he is

btw, IMO mine was a good read and no one had brought it up yet. for something like that which is based off objective stuff that already happened, there's no need to ask about it cause it's all there already

[Grimgroove]

His read on Cheery Dog, his stance on early L-1 and L-2's.

How is Big giving his read on Cheery a trivial matter?
And can you quote exactly the nervous parts of those posts please.[/quote]

Reads in the beginning of the game are trivial because they per definition rely on gut, and it is very easy to backpedal out of them if you need to because of that.

"Nervousness" can't really be quoted, and certainly not exactly and in parts. It's an atmosphere created by the totality of words. His post 58 starts with an apologetic acquiescence, which shows a feeling of inferiority, in turn showing a feeling of nervousness. This is followed by an unnatural dissertation on the difference between L-2 and L-1. First he insists on the two being very different, then he reverts a bit by saying he doesn't mind either of them, but then after the comma exclaims more fondness for L-2, distancing himself yet again from L-1. I see no need for this distancing, yet he does, meaning it's an emotional response. Why give an emotional response over something so trivial? Nervousness.
In 59 with his read on Cheery Dog, there's just too many "but"'s. This transparent second-guessing does not give an air of calmness.

You asked me for my thoughts and I gave them. You didn't ask for a "stance".

Oh come on, really? It should've been obvious when asking for thoughts that it implied what your position was on them.

My position was the he seemed nervous. This wasn't good enough for you, but it is what I was thinking, so I answered your question right from the start as far as I'm concerned.

My only stance is that I think he sounds nervous, which is possibly a scumtell, but not necessarily. I've seen people before who considered themselves easy targets, and people with that mindset tend to get nervous more easily, regardless of alignment.

So he's null to you?

Yes.

Oh, missed that:
@Ravenpaw:
And the reason I asked about Dyslexicon is 1. to pull you out of your unilateral questioning-status

This is a weird reason.

I disagree. I would like to avoid a situation where someone positions themselves as a townleader through questioning rather than through answering.

and 2. because I think he made the most memorable action of the first two pages and should be worth everyone's consideration.
His vote showed a certain carelessness that I'd associate with a town-mindset rather than a scummy one, but his reaction to when he finds out he put someone at L-1 sounded a bit too off-hand.

Hmm I guess I can see that, but his other posts have been good, you agree/disagree?

I disagree. You're going to ask "Why?" now, aren't you? In post 32 he succesfully switched from the defensive stance to the attacking one, but the latter still feels more like a first line of defense rather than a true scumhunt.

Also Grim, why aren’t you voting?

I haven't got a clear preference right now, I was considering voting Cheery Dog after my "sticks and dogs"-post, but I didn't feel it warranted an L-1.
I will apply pressure as soon as I do have a preference.

[Cheery Dog]

@CheeryDog: I would love to hear your most recent opinions on Ravenpaw and Dyslexicon

I haven't had any really, which is fail on my part, but nothing has triggered me either way (which is how they've mostly be ignored so far)

@Cheery- what are your thoughts on Big's recent posts?

Post 71 had some town feeling towards it, otherwise I'm still leaning scum.

Fixed tag. ~~NS

[Dyslexicon]

Weither you announce a pressure vote or not, the point is pressure is being applied. If it's put on the right spot movement will start to occur, no matter how obvious the pressure vote it. And it seems like that is happening right now. It's rather convienient that yourself and Ravenpaw moved your votes to me to get me to L-2 after I took Michael_Wolf to L-2. Could be interperted as either of you being mobbed up with Michael_Wolf.

This is the wrong time frame as already pointed out. And the Wolfie wagon wasn't very serious anyway if you ask me. I moved my vote to one of my scummier read.

Oh, missed that:
@Ravenpaw:
And the reason I asked about Dyslexicon is 1. to pull you out of your unilateral questioning-status and 2. because I think he made the most memorable action of the first two pages and should be worth everyone's consideration.
His vote showed a certain carelessness that I'd associate with a town-mindset rather than a scummy one, but his reaction to when he finds out he put someone at L-1 sounded a bit too off-hand.

If I'm so memorable (*struts down runway*), why haven't you interacted with me or asked me anything yet?
What does this "off-hand" response tell you?

First of all, SORRY FOR NOT POSTING.

I got the FBI virus (for those of you who don't know what it is, it was a thing like a year ago and is scary as fuck, you should look it up). So I've spent the last couple days trying to save my dying baby, but lo and behold, success!! I have returned it to life, so now I will take an active role in this game.

/That sounds serious. I really hope you're ok.

Don't give yourself too much towncred. Like I said before, you have assumed a position of unilateral questioning where you ask a barrage of questions to everyone in a seemingly, and I'd say obviously, random way. While the effort is applaudable, juxtaposting your inquisitive behavior with my observational one as one being town and one being scum is too easy. Anyone can ask questions, what is truly important is the leap from those questions to an actual case. Suffice to say I do not like your leap.

Am I reading this wrong, or are you implying that Rawen's questions are random? Cause I will have to disagree with that. Reading through I find her often asking the same questions I've been thinking to ask myself, which again reads town to me. While I agree that both scum and town can ask questions, I see it as useful either way, especially this early in the game. What leaps specifically don't you like?

cause he is

btw, IMO mine was a good read and no one had brought it up yet. for something like that which is based off objective stuff that already happened, there's no need to ask about it cause it's all there already

What's this objective stuff? I still don't get your reasoning.

I disagree.

You're going to ask "Why?" now, aren't you?

In post 32 he succesfully switched from the defensive stance to the attacking one, but the latter still feels more like a first line of defense rather than a true scumhunt.

Bolded, what was the point of including this?
You're still talking about my first posts on the L-1 thing here though. And I was surprised and a bit embarrassed that I've put someone on L-1 without realizing it and calling it. I found BigTerps response to this as possibly wanting to have the opportunity to jump on it if it would fly, but not pushing hard himself. So I wanted him to give more of a clear stance, which he didn't.

[Grimgroove]

The bolded thing was a tongue-in-cheeck reference to the question-stream-style Ravenpaw adopts.

I will get back to you later on your other questions.

[Cat Clancer]

I've done some ISO, I'm going to post mine on pieguyn's for the following reason:
VOTE: pieguyn.

Post 1: Standard confirm, nothing to read into.
Post 2: RV stage to get the ball rolling, standard.
Post 3: Coming to the defense of another player, also seeing a quick hammer as not a bad move for various reasons. Slightly suspicious. -1
Post 4: fluff
Post 5: Questioning another player, good, but then gives no reasoning why Cherry Dog is town (no real evidence). -1 +1, so 0.
Post 6: When questioned, didn't go into much detail, dodging the question. -1
Post 7: BigTerp wagon either starting to affirming here. 0.
Post 8: Still more on Bigterp, really set on this guy. -1. Also failed to once again answer a question, suspicious. -1
Post 9: Has yet to follow up on question, will have to see if answers.
Post 10: Again, no reasoning why Cheery is town, "just is". Scum partners, maybe? Also, upset no one has followed up on his wagon. -1.

Total of -4. This is my top scum read atm.

[Cat Clancer]

Ooops, forgot to bold.

VOTE: pieguyn

[pieguyn]

What's this objective stuff? I still don't get your reasoning.

maybe I chose the wrong word orz
What I meant was, instead of asking questions to figure out why he did something, he did something where the reason behind it seems pretty obvious already.

Also, upset no one has followed up on his wagon.

where? I was never upset, nor was there a need to be, cause my idea was completely wrong in the first place. nice misrep there

okay

vote: Dyslexicon

okay, seems my idea didn't work out exactly the way I wanted. I wanted to see how everyone would react to me saying someone was town and not saying what the reason was. Dyslexicon and Ravenpaw seemed to point it out almost immediately, but then Banksys did the same thing here

Ravenpaw is scum.

VOTE: Ravenpaw

(Yes, I am entirely serious).

Neither of them pointed it out even though it's practically the same thing with a vote attached. Ravenpaw is the one who got accused so seems he can be excused for that for now. Dyslexicon, what's your opinion on this?