Mini #406, Animaniacs! Water Tower Explosion! [Over]

[Thesp]

Vote: BeHappyNewYear

for trying to kill the happiness in the thread.

[Thesp]

I think you've misunderstood the premise of slapstick comedy, BHNY. After all, who's everyone's favorite Stooge? Moe. Why? Because he hurts

other people

, not himself.

People liked the Stooges?

I never really got their comedy. I'll take Steven Wright or Mitch Hedburg instead any day.

[Thesp]

Unvote: HappyNewYear, Vote: SailorJerry

for not removing his vote after accomplishing his goal.

[Thesp]

Yeah, I'm here, I just don't have anything to say. I've played in a game with Sailor Jerry and he can testify to my MO - I'll post when I have something meaningful to say, but not otherwise. There doesn't seem to be much to dissect so far, so I haven't been wading in with the random chat.

Yes. I have indeed seen him do exactly this.

He was mafia.

This is odd.

Unvote: Sailor Jerry, Vote: Blake Judge.

Sailor Jerry, why aren't you voting for Blake Judge?

[Thesp]

It's just really weird... Hanging back and only posting the bare minimum amount is lurking... and it's scummy.

Let's compare this...

Yeah, I'm here, I just don't have anything to say. I've played in a game with Sailor Jerry and he can testify to my MO - I'll post when I have something meaningful to say, but not otherwise. There doesn't seem to be much to dissect so far, so I haven't been wading in with the random chat.

Yes. I have indeed seen him do exactly this.

He was mafia.

Compare that with Blake Judge, who not only is doing you've outright said is scummy,

he has a similar history of acting that way as scum, which you have experienced with him

, and you make no substantive mention of it. That strikes me as extremely odd.

FOS: Sailor Jerry.

I'm liking the Foolster41 wagon less and less.

[Thesp]

Is this an accurate account of what just happened?

(1) Blake Judge doesn't really do anything at all.
(2) Thesp attempts to start a bandwagon because of the apparent 'scumminess' of (1).
(3) Thesp attempts to goad me into jumping onto the bandwagon.
(4) I admit I don't really get why he's voting Blake Judge.
(5) Thesp fingers me for not jumping on a bandwagon that I really don't think has a base.

Thesp sounds desperate to start a wagon, and it doesn't seem like he cares who it's on.

RAWR! IS IT ME AND ALL MY SCUM BUDDIES DESPERATE FOR A WAGON? CLAIM OR DIE!!!

Unvote: Blake Dodge, Vote: Sailor Jerry.

If you out your scum buddies, we might kill you last.

[Thesp]

That Sailor Jerry wagon was awesome.

*hi-fives Thesp*

No kidding. HAWT!

Vote: Blake Judge.

[Thesp]

Yep.

Vote: Blake Judge

RAWR! KEEP THE VOTES COMING! KILL, KILL, KILL!

[Thesp]

Unvote: Blake Judge, Vote: mole.

I may be wrong about a SJ/BJ/JDodge theory, I'm beginning to think mole is SJ's partner with an unknown third.

[Thesp]

Well, it's not me. Sorry to disappoint.

Crud. And here I thought that your last post of yesterday...

Okay, so now chamber and Foolster lurking is scummy, but Blake Judge lurking isn't.

Please explain why I shouldn't vote for you.

...was an attempt to look like you were suspicious of Sailor Jerry, while actually trying to give him an out by explaining himself, and giving him a clear point to work against. Oh well. Do you mind if I leave my vote on you anyway, in case other people got the same impression I did?

[Thesp]

I actually found that to be a sound argument against SJ. Giving players the opportunity to explain themselves, especially on Day One, is just common sense. I don't think that mole was providing Jerry with any particular foothold on which to build a defense, just pointing out that if he had one, everyone would like to hear it.

That's the thing - I agree it was a sound argument (even moreso given SJ's alignment now), and I think mole summed it up in an easy package for SJ to rebut so SJ wouldn't go all over the place. SJ certainly could explain himself without mole's help,

why the prompt from mole

? That's what gets me - it was fairly clear that SJ needed a defense, and mole is giving SJ the opportunity to

not be voted

. I don't think that's a throw-away statement, I think it's very deliberate.

[Thesp]

I intended that statement as a threat, to state that I intended to use

my

vote against him if he did not explain himself.

See, you

say

that, but I think you just wanted it to look that way. You made it clear that he needed to say something other than what he was saying. It looked like cleverly disguised in-thread scumhelp to me.

[Thesp]

Blake Judge is dead anyway if there's a SK out there, as he can singlehandedly out them. Not worth spending time on him.

[Thesp]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Thesp.

I mean that if there's a Serial Killer in the game, that player can't afford to let Blake Judge stay around. If Blake Judge is still around in a couple of days, it will be worth looking at then, but not now.

Die mole die. Kill him, my pretties!

[Thesp]

Still here, still happiest with a mole lynch.

[Thesp]

ok, back.

I intended that statement as a threat, to state that I intended to use my vote against him if he did not explain himself.

See, you say that, but I think you just wanted it to look that way. You made it clear that he needed to say something other than what he was saying. It looked like cleverly disguised in-thread scumhelp to me.

Sounds patenetly paranoid and is very bad logic.

...

Vote: Thesp for being slightly more scummy than VitimanR

I'm not sure you're considering how Sailor Jerry got figured out on D1. I'm also not sure why in the world you're thinking I have bad logic, and am unsure what you mean by paranoid. (I am under the impression that there are at least 2 other scum out there, so in that sense, I am somewhat paranoid, is that a fair assessment?) Please clarify your position before I take you to task for your loose use of the word "logic", which is being thrown out farr too much nowadays, and the definition is being trampled underfoot.

[Thesp]

I guess what I mean is what you said sounded to me like you were saying his statement was "Too town to be town." That is what I meant by bad logic. Was this what you were basically saying about the statement?

Goodness, no. I'm saying he was trying to act as though he was suspicious of Sailor Jerry, but trying to give Sailor Jerry a chance to redeem himself from an intensely scummy action. In and of itself, it's not

that

bad, but now that we know SJ is a confirmed group-baddie, it's pretty condemning that mole tried to give him that out.

[Thesp]

SJ got lynched so quickly that we don't have that much info, really.

Really? I think it gave us plenty.

FOS: VitaminR.

Mod:

Can we get activity prods on anyone who hasn't posted in the last 72 hours? Thanks!

[Thesp]

Thanks, mod!

If we're talking about gut instincts, I've found JDodge's last few posts strange for some reason. I really need to catch up on the rest of the thread, however.

Is it a coincidence that the only person you're suspicious of you is the only person voting for you?

How in the world would he be qualified to answer this question?

[Thesp]

I have to say that I maintain mole's "Please explain why I shouldn't vote you" was an attempt to offer the benefit of the doubt rather than providing SJ with an out.

Why can't they be both? Certainly it could be the former under the benefit of the latter, correct? I'm also highly doubtful Sailor Jerry would have been so blatant as to phrase it in the manner you have suggested would have been obviously scummy.

[Thesp]

It

could

be that mole was doing both, but I don't think that doing the former is inherently scummy or even poor pro-town play, so barring evidence of the latter, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that mole did anything worthy of suspicion.

I agree with the premise, yet the fact that Sailor Jerry was indeed scum makes it more likely mole had ulterior motives. It is an inductive argument rather than a deductive one, but I think it merits consideration that it's more likely mole was doing bad things.

In a large game with multiple scum teams, trying to get scum lynched

could

indicate one scum team trying to gain an advantage over the other, but that shouldn't be the first conclusion you jump to without some evidence above and beyond the simple attempt to lynch scum.

I'm not sure I understand the significance of this part of your post.

[Thesp]

The problem with your line of reasoning is that the "arguably more likely" involved is a tenuous argument and of, in my opinion, little predictive power.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I do, however, contend that in your argument/analogy, the actual likelihood of a person being more likely to be scum because "trying to get scum lynched

could

indicate one scum team trying to gain an advantage over the other" is significantly weaker. I agree my argument isn't slam-dunk by any means, but I think it's worth pursuing, and is somewhat stronger than you're giving credit for. I think you've correctly ascertained the form of the argument, and noted that the clause "Because of circumstance B, a player who exhibits behavior A is arguably more likely to be scum" is where the uncertainty creeps in. It's simply a matter of how arguably more likely that person is to be scum.

[Thesp]

Oh crap. How did I do that? unvote Sorry about that. Vote: Thesp

Why? I really don't understand how you're playing this game.

On the flipside, at least you're

playing

this game, which is a step up form almost everyone else.

[Thesp]

Why am I voting you? Did you bother looking back at my post? I'll repeat the question one more time, but if you avoid this for the THIRD TIME I strongly urge people to vote for Thesp.

I feel Thesp is shoehorning Mole in to a place of suspicion.

You yourself admited that it's not the thing he said in itself, but the timing more or less, yes?

I actually found that to be a sound argument against SJ. Giving players the opportunity to explain themselves, especially on Day One, is just common sense. I don't think that mole was providing Jerry with any particular foothold on which to build a defense, just pointing out that if he had one, everyone would like to hear it.

That's the thing - I agree it was a sound argument (even moreso given SJ's alignment now), and I think mole summed it up in an easy package for SJ to rebut so SJ wouldn't go all over the place. SJ certainly could explain himself without mole's help, why the prompt from mole? That's what gets me - it was fairly clear that SJ needed a defense, and mole is giving SJ the opportunity to not be voted. I don't think that's a throw-away statement, I think it's very deliberate.

You even say the argument is MORESO sound because of SJ's alignment. But later:

It could be that mole was doing both, but I don't think that doing the former is inherently scummy or even poor pro-town play, so barring evidence of the latter, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that mole did anything worthy of suspicion.

I agree with the premise, yet the fact that Sailor Jerry was indeed scum makes it more likely mole had ulterior motives. It is an inductive argument rather than a deductive one, but I think it merits consideration that it's more likely mole was doing bad things.

So you say he is MORE likely because of SJ's revealed alignment. This sounds like a contradiction to me. I like irony, so I'll say it. Tell me why I shouldn't vote for you thesp?

I'm terribly confused. Is the question I'm supposed to answer, "Tell me why I shouldn't vote for you thesp?" Or is it about some perceived contradiction that I'm clearly not seeing? Please help me understand what you're going on about.

[Thesp]

*bangs head against keyboard*

[Thesp]

I was voting SJ because I was going to build a case against him. But of course, I didn't have a chance before Thesp came in and said everything I was going to say and more.

I'm voting BJ because he was/is my best lead at the moment. His recent posts have given me no good reason to change my vote at the moment.

BLAKE JUDGE IS A TERRIBLE LYNCH. INFORMATION ROLES ARE TYPICALLY TERRIBLE LYNCHES EARLY, THIS CASE NOT EXCEPTED. WHY ARE YOU NADERING YOUR VOTE?

(apologies for the caps.)

[Thesp]

Mod: Can chamber and mole be replaced?

I'll leave it to your wisdom what to do with them, but neither have posted since prodding a week ago. Thanks.

[Thesp]

Wow, I thought I was gonna get it for saying I was going to post and not, but it seems this is common place in this game.

Random Vote: Thesp so people will start talking.

We are past the random voting stage, and you should have

something

to say.

FOS: HurriKaty.

Try again.

[Thesp]

Er, I'm afraid I also have lurking tendencies. Until late Friday, in fact, no amount of effort whatsoever will change this: there's a college program I'm going to. Sorry 'bout that.

Have a great time!

Ugh. Fritzler, Thesp, you guys AGAIN? It's like I woke up in MEadows of Sorrow part two. I bet you guys are scum buddies again, too. That's why you're voting me, sure it is.

Welcome! We're hunting scum - please help by voting yourself.

[Thesp]

Thesp - isn't your attack on me that I asked a question of someone who had a major bandwagon?

In a deflecty sort of way, yes. I am pondering your argument re: Fritzler, which is well-thought out.

[Thesp]

When I did it, no one had ANYTHING to say. Thats why I did it. Now that people are talking, I can take the vote off.

Unvote

That's not true. Also, what did your vote do? Did it help?

I want to hear whom you think are scum - name me two.

[Thesp]

Unvote: mole/Skruffs, Vote: hurrikaty.

I'll have to hope Skruffs gets vigged (or do it myself, or lynch him later), and Hurrikaty is repeatedly ignoring requests to contribute and posts bizarre things like:

Well, I'd say you but that would be a blatant OMGUS... You kind of seem to only be doing this because it was you I was voting for.

Why in the world would you think I'm scum? Let me be straight up with you and everyone - I think I'm the most confirmedest innocentest person in this flopping game that seems to be going nowhere despite having an edge right now, so I get aggravated/suspicious when people post utter nonsense like suggestions I might be scum with no backup, and/or don't bother with reading the game. Why in the world do you think I'm scum, HurriKaty? I don't care about OMGUS, you've put it out there. And who else do you think might be scum? You only gave me as a tenative answer, and nothing else.

[Thesp]

Take a few breaths. You've got steam coming out of your ears.

I do.

I get aggravated/suspicious when people post utter nonsense like suggestions I might be scum with no backup, and/or don't bother with reading the game.

I thought you were suspicious of people who ask unknown alignment players to defend themselves before lynching them. Which is it; people willing to go out on a limb or people hesitant to go out on a limb?

This is comparing apples and DVD players. I'm not suspicious of people who ask for defenses

per se

, I am when the manner is unusual. I'm confused as to what you mean with your question.

Unvote: mole/Skruffs, Vote: hurrikaty. I'll have to hope Skruffs gets vigged (or do it myself, or lynch him later)

Blake Judge is dead anyway if there's a SK out there, as he can singlehandedly out them. Not worth spending time on him.

There was only one kill last night. Why do you keep hinting/breadcrumbing that there's another? Why all the paranoia?

I seriously pondered not answering this question, because it looks an awful lot like fishing to me. Let me see if I can respond with minimal revelation. I see no reason to think my statements here are hinting/breadcrumbing.

[Thesp]

Well, I'd say you but that would be a blatant OMGUS... You kind of seem to only be doing this because it was you I was voting for.

Why in the world would you think I'm scum? Let me be straight up with you and everyone - I think I'm the most confirmedest innocentest person in this flopping game that seems to be going nowhere despite having an edge right now, so I get aggravated/suspicious when people post utter nonsense like suggestions I might be scum with no backup, and/or don't bother with reading the game. Why in the world do you think I'm scum, HurriKaty? I don't care about OMGUS, you've put it out there. And who else do you think might be scum? You only gave me as a tenative answer, and nothing else.

Because of outrageous crazy anger like this? You're getting super defensive for someone who's apparently confirmed (I must have missed that, someone point it out to me.)

You're still avoiding the question of who you think is scum. Happy with my vote.

If you think I'm scum, you've got some whacked out theory for scum to scum interaction on day on as it pertains to Sailor Jerry and I. I don't think I'm rock solid mason-confirmed innocent, but I think I'm just a notch below that. I don't think Hurrikaty is paying attention to actually finding scum, she's just looking for people saying weird things. That strikes a cord with me as something odd.

Definitly no more than JDODGE who gave a semi-reasonable claim.

Claims are

not

a defense.

[Thesp]

Did you not see anything you just quoted?

And when the hell were you confirmed, you STILL haven't answered that, and I still haven't found anything that would make you confirmed.

I did read your post, and I saw you taking shots at me without confirming any suspicion of me, and not naming a second person as scum. You're staying vague about your suspicions, and it reeks. Die scum die.

Also, see foolster41's post re: my innocence. It's also more than

my

actions - look at how Sailor Jerry acted towards me, trying to get a bandwagon going on me. It's nothing like I'm outed-mason-with-a-dead-partner-confirmed or anything like that, but from an outside perspective (if one can even be taken), I would think I'm the least likely to be scum, so it catches my attention when people then vote for me. I think you're hunting people to vote for instead of people who might be scum. You know who does that most frequently? Scum.

Mod: Prods requested on all who haven't posted in the last 96 hours.

Thanks!

[Thesp]

Hard to tell when the first 'pot shot' was taken between the two of you.

What "two of you" are you referring to here?

[Thesp]

HurriKaty, you can think Thesp is scum, but you're not going to get a wagon going on him. Your opinion are useless to us if you confine yourself to that.

QFT.


Fuldu, what do you think of HurriKaty?

[Thesp]

Mod: Deadline request.

Thanks.

HurriKaty, what did you think of VitaminR's last comment?

[Thesp]

I guess I was looking for more like, "who else do you think are scum?" You seem to continue to avoid speculation on other players besides me.

[Thesp]

And Thesp, "What do you think of VitaminR's post" and "Who do you think are scum" are two completely different questions.

I wish I was a dayvig.

I supppose I hoped that this would indicate that I wanted you to tell us who you thought were scum besides me. (It's almost certain there's at least two scum left.) I do not believe you failed to observe that, so my suspicion is that you are being deliberately difficult or are stalling like crazy to avoid the question. Happy with my vote.

Why in the world is HurriKaty not dead yet?

[Thesp]

THesp, shush, we're playing a game.
Bicker afterwards.

What do you think about HurriKaty?

[Thesp]

Hush.

No, really.

[Thesp]

Female.

Skruffs?

Speaking of which, I'd WOULD point out who I think is scum if I weren't absolutely horrible at finding people....

I think it's relatively absurd you would sign up to play a game and not participate in it. Don't be afraid to be wrong (goodness knows I've been wrong many a time), just make your best guesses. That's all I'm looking for.

[Thesp]

Thesp, I'll say when we are done. I would rather get through this game before we start another.

I'm confused, and don't understand the context for this. Can you help me understand?

[Thesp]

Mod: Can we get a prod on Ether and request a deadline extension?

Thanks.

[Thesp]

Back, and ready to lynch Hurrikaty.

[Thesp]

I'm sure even if I claimed, Thesp is going to go ahead, not believe me, and get me lynched somehow anyway even though he's already voting me, so I dont even see why I should even bother, cause I'm fucked either way.

This is not a helpful approach. Please claim, and tell us whom you think might be scum (besides me, I presume you think I'm scum). I don't care if you might be wrong, give us your best guesses, in some real sense it's all we have when we play the game.

[Thesp]

RAWR!

I want to hear from Blake Judge today.

[Thesp]

I'm waiting for Blake Judge before I answer anything.

Mod: Prod request on Blake Judge. Thanks!

[Thesp]

I suppose, but if I'd posted to say "Yeah, I think HurriKaty is a reasonable play, but I'd still like to wait until she claims," then you'd just be making a slightly different argument against me.

I am amazed at your ability to divine the theoretical actions of another player. I think this is a poor, poor argument. As I read down further from your post, I admit my distaste for your form is significantly mitigated by VitaminR's assent to your presumption.

[Thesp]

Still waiting on Blake Judge.

[Thesp]

Could we just get your night results, if not your opinions?

QFT.

[Thesp]

Thanks, now a ranger.

Hey Thesp, I know this is going to sound cryptic, but did anything happen to you last night?

I RECEIVED NO UNEXPECTED PMS OR NOTIFICATIONS LAST NIGHT. EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU THINK IT WORTHWHILE. IGNORE IT IF YOU THINK IT NOT.

Sorry for the caps again.

I'd like to hear a Fuldu claim. I'm pondering how worthwhile it would be for a mass claim at this point. I'm also curious to hear if anyone else is supcious of me.

[Thesp]

Should we all do the whole, "Claim human or non-human" bit? I'm in favor of it. If so, I'd recommend Fuldu choose who starts.

[Thesp]

Fuldu should claim his result.

I don't mind starting with Ether or me, but I think there is enough consensus for such a claim.

I'm not sure that there's anyone other than you. I was assuming you'd want it, and the only other vote that was on me, Foolster's, pulled back from that position. I'm willing to give my result, but I'd like someone in addition to VitaminR to ask for it.

That said...

I think we should wait until the mass-claim is over for Fuldu to claim his result.

...this won't work. Either I'm telling the truth, in which case I genuinely have a result, or I'm lying, in which case I'm the remaining scum and everybody else should be expected to tell the truth. So I would just pick someone and agree with their claim. Wouldn't prove anything.

It's more important to scare the scum into telling the truth. Don't claim until everyone else has. We'll evaluate if you're lying on your own merits, but if you do have useful information, we ought to exploit it. I don't want you to give your info until everyone claims human/non-human.

[Thesp]

I'm fine with just claiming first too. Who starts?

Fuldu should pick, IMHAAO.

[Thesp]

Basically, SJ and Thesp both FoS each other back and forth. I find it weird how Thesp doesn’t vote SJ until the 6th vote.

I FOS'd him at first. I thought he was scum buddies with Blake Judge. I looked to elicit his reaction. Notice after I got his reaction, I voted for him...

8 hours after he posted

. I didn't really have the opportunity to vote him 3rd or 4th or really anything but where I was, unless you think I should have voted him right out of the gates (which I would disagree with at the time).

All in all, I have a feeling Thesp is scum. I find it weird how you voted for Blake Judge in the early going when SJ said that BJ acted like that in another game… Each game is different, and BJ probably just plays like that in all his games.

This is beyond bizarre. SJ said BJ in this game acted consistently with how he'd acted in another game where BJ was scum. I'm not sure what else to do with that information.

@Thesp: Also, why did you want to wait on me/Blake Judge before you answer anything? Were you afraid that maybe BJ’s night choice targeted you? It seems you were afraid you might make a mistake in saying what happened to you last night after Foolster asked you, so after I said my night choices, you said that you received no notification of anything that happened to you last night. At the time, I had no idea what was going on as I hadn’t read the entire game.

I wanted to bully you into answering to see if you had useful information first. Foolster41's play was suboptimal anyway, as he already indicated he might have done something to me last night. If he had, the better method for eliciting that information would be to ask you first (a claimed information role) for your info, so as to trap you in a possible lie. I'm also not sure what benefit I would have to lying or not to Foolster41's question - presumably, I'd receive notification of nightactions (if notification is given on nightactions) independent of my alignment. I do not want Foolster41 to speculate or affirm any part of this, as it might be useful info for scum.

Also, I don’t see why you ask and smile to see if anyone else is suspicious of you. You act as if you should be seen as town to everyone else, and if anyone else thinks otherwise, than dunno.

Yes, I do think this. Note who the two outed scum have been suspicious of. Note whom I've railed against throughout the game. There is indeed a line of thought that could go down where I'm scum with SJ and HurriKaty and we planned an elaborate setup of me furiously bussing them to confirm me innocent (or it was unplanned, and I did it on my own accord). Consider that on its own merits.

Nearly confirmed doesn't mean confirmed 100% though.

I agree.

Scum lie all the time when they need to. Thesp might have known that Hurrikaty was female, and be scum, so he claimed female, knowing he would probably be mostly confirmed and unsuspected the next day. Assuming he claimed during Day 2, as I have to go find it.

I did indeed claim female Day 2. If I'm lying, this is a very easy one to catch by Fritzler.

Your arguments are theoretically plausible, though on the whole I think they ignore major common trends for scum interaction, and ignore most-likely-case scenarios.

[Thesp]

1) That's still not a good excuse. Who knows, you could have been lurking at that time. If you were the 6th on the wagon, why did VitaminR vote Fuldu for his position of being 5th on the SJ wagon? Fuldu could have been gone like you said.

2) About that BJ thing, did you even read the game(s) that BJ was scum in? I don't think one behavior in another game should signal scum in another game.

3) I think you were afraid I had information, and that you might say something wrong. Vice versa.

4) Scum tend to distance from their scumbuddies, some even buss and FoS a ton. You seem to be using it to your advantage, as now you are to others "almost confirmed."

5) OK

6) I think nothing is unlikely in the game of mafia, and this applies to scenarios too.


Did you read the other post about HurriKaty?

Yes, I conced I

could

have been lurking for those 8 hours while 5 other people put votes on. I didn't read the other game BJ was scum in, I didn't have the time for it and I wanted to see how SJ responded. I'm also uncertain as to what wrong thing I could have said to the Foolster41 question, that you would have information on*. And if you think "nothing is unlikely in mafia", I'm uncertain of how you would actually

play

mafia. You certainly believe that one situation is more likely than another (hence, your vote).

And I didn't bother responding to your thoughts on HurriKaty and I because I don't find them compelling, and didn't feel like going over them again because there's really not much for me to say about your speculations there except, "Nuh-uh". Why waste everyone's time with that? You've posited rational, theoretical possibilities that I think are far unlikelier than almost any other possiblity out there. There's not much more for me to say on that.

Still waiting on the human/non-human claim.

Mod: can we get a replacement for Ether?

*(extrapolation on the Foolster41 question) - Suppose you claim to have watched me on the prior night, and Foolster41 claims to have visited me or given something to me, and I claim not to have received any notification of anything happen. Am I suspicious for this? Suppose I have received notification last night that I've been visited by something, or received something. What incentive do I have to lie about it? I'm really not sure where you're going here. I think you're finding something which doesn't fit with what you're used to and saying, "Ah, that must be scum!" rather than seeing something and thinking, "Would scum be more likely to act in this way?" I'm not saying that my refusal to answer Foolster41's question right away indicates I'm more likely to be town, but I

am

saying it's not an indicator of scumminess.

[Thesp]

It does seem like you went after Katy and probably knew she was scum, because you pressured her just because she voted for you as a random vote. Possibly, you were not happy that she brought you up as a random vote because you weren’t suspected much at that time.

You say you are apparently confirmed, but you really aren’t.

You also keep acting as if you are almost confirmed, and that it would be “whacked out” like you said or almost impossible for you to be scum with what you’ve done. That’s not a nice way to defend or respond to anything, as you aren't 100% confirmed, and can still easily be scum, which is relevant in this case.

*sigh*

I AM NOT CONFIRMED INNOCENT. I AM, IN MY OPINION, THE CLOSEST THING TO CONFIRMED INNOCENT THERE COULD BE OUTSIDE OF BEING A MASON WITH A DEAD MASON PARTNER. YES, I AGREE I COULD STILL BE SCUM.

But how?

I keep seeing in your post "possibly", "who knows", and "nothing is unlikely". Yes, I agree that "anything's possible", but that

doesn't

mean that anything's

probable

. I think, that if someone outside the game read it over and tried to analyze which player is most likely to be scum, I'd be dead last, and rightly so.

Maybe

I went after Hurrikaty because I knew she was scum. Is it also

possible

I went after her because I thought her vote was odd and out of place? Is it

conceivable

that my vote on Sailor Jerry came at the time I felt it was most reasonable, and had the opportunity for? I'm not saying your thoughts are unreasonable, I'm saying it's unreasonable for you to think this is the most likely scenario. (And if you respond with anything resembling "any scenario is just as likely", I hope you roll dice to determine your next vote to back it up.)

Oh, and I overlooked this:

If you were the 6th on the wagon, why did VitaminR vote Fuldu for his position of being 5th on the SJ wagon? Fuldu could have been gone like you said.

I'm really, really not sure why you're asking me to defend the actions of someone else.

[Thesp]

Of course you think you are the closest thing to confirmed innocent there is outside of that, because you are yourself!

This is not why I think that. I am not sure if you have been paying attention.

Her vote was a random vote because she said so. Since discussion was lagging, she wanted activity.

I find it bizarre that you are defending the actions of a known, dead scum.

You voted Blake Judge also just because Sailor Jerry said he was scummy in another game.

I voted him for a number of reasons, the stated included,

and because Sailor Jerry

didn't

vote for him

. I don't know where you think it was only at Sailor Jerry's direction that I did.

[Thesp]

Welcome, blahgo!

Claim human/not-human. Now. Read thread later.

[Thesp]

Blahgo?

[Thesp]

I think Fritzler needs to investigate Thesp and see if he's really female like claimed earlier.

I hope Fritzler has been investigating the females to check their genders. We'll get him to claim his investigation before the day ends. I'd also recommend we don't go running over the investigation possiblities, etc. until after everyone's claimed. Don't let the scum in on how we'll win.

[Thesp]

Here, waiting for blahgo.

[Thesp]

Woohoo! Welcome!

Let's finish our claiming now.

[Thesp]

Thanks, JDodge!

I'm human.

Now a ranger, you're last. Claim!

[Thesp]

Foolster41 - claim or die.

Let's get it out in the open - no one help him with his claim, even accidentally!

[Thesp]

This was the character I was assuming, as well, but like I said, it doesn't seem like a very strong claim to me. Can you speak to the validity of the Good Idea, Thesp?

I can't, Sweenytodd gets it right in the next post:

@Fuldu: I went back to look at that...

Hey Thesp, I know this is going to sound cryptic, but did anything happen to you last night?

And then Thesp responded:

I RECEIVED NO UNEXPECTED PMS OR NOTIFICATIONS LAST NIGHT. EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU THINK IT WORTHWHILE. IGNORE IT IF YOU THINK IT NOT.

So it would appear that the action did not go through or Thesp denied it at that time...

I am against a mass name-claim. I would not mind if JDodge and VitaminR were pressed into claiming, though. I have lingering suspicions of Fuldu lying here, but I think I'd be happier lynching VitaminR here. I'm uncomfortable with his communication with HurriKaty.

Vote: VitaminR.

[Thesp]

What comunications with Hurrikaty are you talking about? I can;t find it when I look back. I think it has to do with the lack of using names in some places with no postsbefore (I don;t want to look back 24 pages if I don't have to)

He seems to telegraph a lot to Hurrikaty about what to do/guiding her. Much of what he says makes a lot of sense for one scum to say to a fellow scum.

[Thesp]

Thesp, cite some examples, please.

HurriKaty, you can think Thesp is scum, but you're not going to get a wagon going on him. Your opinion are useless to us if you confine yourself to that.

And Thesp, "What do you think of VitaminR's post" and "Who do you think are scum" are two completely different questions.

I wish I was a dayvig.

I supppose I hoped that this would indicate that I wanted you to tell us who you thought were scum besides me. (It's almost certain there's at least two scum left.) I do not believe you failed to observe that, so my suspicion is that you are being deliberately difficult or are stalling like crazy to avoid the question. Happy with my vote.

Why in the world is HurriKaty not dead yet?

I'm starting to agree.

Katy is at -1. She needs to claim.

I'm not following you, Katy.

I don't think Thesp has a vendetta against you. He's been pretty fanatical about his suspicions of you, but that's his style.

I don't see a reason to stop playing the game and I hope you don't.

Foolster, don't. Give her time to claim.

These seemed a bit odd in light of HurriKaty being scum.

I'm leaning towards full name claims now (since so many are out in the open).

[Thesp]

[mrow]Name[col]Gender[col]Human/Not[col]role 2.)NAR[col]Male[col]Non-human[col]Chicken Boo (Watcher) 3.)SweenyTodd[col]Male[col]Human[col]Otto Scratchansniff (Townie) 4.)Foolster41[col]Male[col]"Humanoid"/Non-Human[col]Mr. Skullhead (GI/BI) 5.)Fritzler[col]Female[col]Human[col]Hello Nurse (Gender Cop) 6.)Fuldu[col]Male[col]Human[col]Ralph the Guard (Human Cop) 8.)JDodge[col]Male[col]Non-Human[col]Brain (Townie) 11.)Thesp[col]Not-Male[col]Human[col]? 12.)VitaminR[col]Male[col]Non-Human[col]Pinky (Townie)

I pretty much believe JDodge now.

Why?

Thesp, you never responded to my question about whether Foolster's claim to have sent you a Good Idea is something you can verify.

I had -

This was the character I was assuming, as well, but like I said, it doesn't seem like a very strong claim to me. Can you speak to the validity of the Good Idea, Thesp?

I can't, Sweenytodd gets it right in the next post:

@Fuldu: I went back to look at that...

Hey Thesp, I know this is going to sound cryptic, but did anything happen to you last night?

And then Thesp responded:

I RECEIVED NO UNEXPECTED PMS OR NOTIFICATIONS LAST NIGHT. EXPLAIN THIS IF YOU THINK IT WORTHWHILE. IGNORE IT IF YOU THINK IT NOT.

So it would appear that the action did not go through or Thesp denied it at that time...

Why do you think Foolster41 would lie about something easily verifiable?

I'm pondering whether or not Fuldu is lying, and simply screwed himself with his claim. Despite this, I am pondering a Foolster41 lynch.

now a ranger - I can't remember, have you claimed any of your watches? Have they been useful?

[Thesp]

Leading the charge? What?

I waited for your response. To be honest, I'm pretty torn. There's something very wrong about your account. Your role sounds made up and no one can confirm any of it.

But it seems a bit stupid for you to claim it as scum...

This feels very genuine to me, particularly because I've felt the exact same way.

We have 8 people alive?

Unvote: VitaminR, Vote: No Lynch.

I'd like to see some investigations tonight to see if people are lying.

[Thesp]

Thanks for the prod, Thok.

Still happy with No Lynch.

[Thesp]

We have about 3 days until the town is doomed (On day 7 we will be down to 2 people if we don't no lynch).

If we no lynch, town looses a day.

The bolded part is wrong. If we no-lynch and the mafia night-kill, we still have 3 lynches to work with, as well as an extra day's information. I'm disturbed by Fuldu's attempt to dissuade us from this path, and am becoming increasingly suspicious of him.

The extra information is nice, as is narrowing down the list of suspects. I don't see what's bad about that, moreover I can see plenty of

good

.

Is there anything more to it than that, because while that's fine, so far as it goes, those that have claimed male non-human are presumably telling the truth about that and we won't ever catch them in a lie if they're the remaining scum.

That's true, but what about those

not

claiming male non-human? I sure wouldn't mind clearing them, in case one of them is lying. If someone's claiming to be human, for instance, and they're investigated as non-human, what would you think the best course of action is?

The idea for the extra information isn't to try to gain more info on the three in the spotlight for being male/non-human, it's to further clear (or entrap!) those who haven't claimed that. Since we're at an even number, with no real expectation of a double-nightkill, now is the perfect time to no-lynch, so we can do just that.

[Thesp]

I'm not convinced we're going to get any good information, but fine. I'm not completly my plan is any good either now I take a second look at it.

Does the potential outweigh the risk?

I think it's more likely than not we'll find out one or two people haven't lied (whether it's people we suspected of lying or not). Of course, we could also hit a windfall. What's the downside? The mafia aren't getting an

extra

kill, they're just getting it earlier.

[Thesp]

If we lynch a male non-human today and then Fritz and I investigate our respective questionables, I feel like that accomplishes more than no lynch followed by investigations. Otherwise, we're dealing with the potential scum liars and putting off the potential scum truth-tellers for later.

Given the even number of people alive, why not investigate, then lynch? Why must we lynch, then investigate?

I think this conversation would be entirely different if we had an odd number of people alive in the game, where a no-lynch would reduce the number of lynches we'd get by one, but here a no-lynch doesn't - it gives an extra night without taking away a day. It's essentially

giving

us an extra investiation. (Granted, that's presuming all investigative roles remained alive throughout the rest of the game, which is unlikely, but I hope my point comes across here - it would give us a

forwarded

investigation at the very least.)

It also makes you have to make up an extra investigation if you're a lying scumbag, which I particularly like.

[Thesp]

Time for our info roles to claim their results, and I don't think the order they do it matters.

[Thesp]

Looking over it now, Fritzler's result is likely meaningless.

The way I see it now, SweenyTodd, Fritzler and I are all-but confirmed to

not

have the traits of {being non-human, male}. That leaves 4 people, and 3 lynches to decide between.

I like our odds, even though I'm uncertain which direction to go in.

[Thesp]

sorry, i didn't get a result cuz i forgot a chocie, but like thesp said i doubt it would matter

So who do you think is scum?

[Thesp]

My apologies for my absence here - I just want to get a quick word in saying I'm back after Thespival. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Thesp]

Vote: Foolster41

. I've gotta make a guess sometime, and his actions have been more likely to be from scum, save the manner of his claim, which was pretty slick. I think he's most likely of our remainings to be scum.