Mini 403: 101 MPH Mafia - Game Over

[Ectomancer]

vote Jack:

Because I dont know Jack

[Ectomancer]

Oddly enough, Im both for and against Adele's "keep it even" plan.
I like the idea that with a few people on the ropes instead of 1 bandwagon you get more jockeying around and more actions to interpret. Advantage town.
However, one of the primary reasons Adele gave for supporting her idea was that we could react quickly to information. Well in my head, scum already has the advantage of information and can not only react quickly, but make an informed reaction to circumstances. Advantage scum.
Having thought it out though, I think this plan would benefit scum more than town.
So, to avoid a plan that seems to benefit scum more to me, and in the same stroke put a vote on the creator of that plan:

unvote Jack, Vote Adele

[Ectomancer]

Hmm, I still don't agree with Adele's plan. There tends to naturally be a split wagon, and if one person is way ahead it's because they are more suspicious. I see no reason to alter that.

Not convinced supporting that plan is scummy though so I'll

unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

I got a scummy vibe from that post. A lot of justification, but he mostly seems to be echoing what has been said before. The thing is, Adele has explained herself now and the scummy plan = scummy planner connection is much weaker.

Yes the connection is much weaker. I guess I didnt relate the irony of the situation well enough to you. In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

[Ectomancer]

Hmm, I still don't agree with Adele's plan. There tends to naturally be a split wagon, and if one person is way ahead it's because they are more suspicious. I see no reason to alter that.

Not convinced supporting that plan is scummy though so I'll

unvote

Vote:Ectomancer

I got a scummy vibe from that post. A lot of justification, but he mostly seems to be echoing what has been said before. The thing is, Adele has explained herself now and the scummy plan = scummy planner connection is much weaker.

Yes the connection is much weaker. I guess I didnt relate the irony of the situation well enough to you. In order to create a front runner in the voting and oppose Adele's plan, I had to vote for the person with the most votes (but not too many). It happened to be Adele. Hence, my final statement.

Why did you want to arbitrarily create a front runner? That has the same problems as Adele's plan. Scum can vote for someone who's tied with their partner with part of the justification being "we need a front runner".

I think that question equates with someone asking "why random bandwagons?" And no, it doesnt have the same problems as Adele's plan. The random end of the day leaves too much in the air when it comes down to determining whether peoples actions were malicious, or bad luck and timing when there are several people tied for the lynch. It's not a good situation for the town. We want the most suspicious person in front.
I also reject your "arbitrary" labeling of my vote. Adele was already the front leader when I added my vote. Her plan was scummy to me, leading me to feel she is the most suspicious. If she had not been, then I would have needed to look for the most suspicious of the top votes.

[/quote]I really think Ectomancer should have the most votes, not Adele.[/player]

You really seem to be inserting yourself in a protector role for Adele dont you?

[Ectomancer]

If this were fencing, which of course verbally it is, I would say that Jack has certainly scored more points. I doubt that I am as skilled or experienced.
I dont know that I can do a quote by quote rebuttal that would satisfy. A chain of events from my perspective would do better.

It's early in a game that we need to be fast. I dont see much suspicious until Adele posts a plan of action. She is bashed for it enough that she becomes front runner by 1, with 2 tied 1 vote behind. I look at the plan and agree that it would benefit scum more than town. The plan itself called for an even number across a few players making it easier to move in a short time span. As I pointed out, scum have more information on players and are not making blind adjustments, giving them an advantage.
So I take a look at the votes and it "so happened" that Adele was the leader by 1, with my vote putting her ahead and out of the virtual tie with the other 2 players. Done deal, plan benefits scum and she gets put out in front to break it up.
No further thought on the matter. I dont need to figure out what I would have done had she not been front runner.
Jack, you wanted to know what I would have done had Adele not been front runner. But then you use my responses to what I

did

do when she

is

the front runner to claim I contradict myself.

[Ectomancer]

It seems I was able to relay my thought process in a more coherent manner, but events since then have me wondering about motivations.
I can understand omg's reasoning for putting a vote on Adele. Jack I dont quite understand, unless he was still always suspicious of Adele and was finally convinced his original hunch was correct.
@Pablito What was this about? Vote trading? I dont understand why you are trying to make a deal of some kind with omg. I get this vibe from you that you are content if any of the 3 front runners gets lynched, doesnt matter to you which one. It makes me wonder if Im sitting here on the line with 2 other townies with scum chuckling into their sleeves over it.

If omg wants to vote trade at the moment, I'd be willing. He doesn't want ecto to be the top vote getter, so I'd be willing to put Adele at three votes, and then omg can move his vote to riverwind. Or I could vote riverwind as proxy or something.

Or I should actually just vote Adele if I want.

Or I could just wait as I said I would. I think I'll do that.

[Ectomancer]

Kenji was indeed taking your comments out of context. However, it looks more like sloppy work than a deliberate misrepresentation. That said, I still think some of your argument against Kenji has merit.

[Ectomancer]

I really was about to vote omg, just because I think he only has his well being in mind. Maybe its just a gut feeling, but I'm don't entirely trust him at this point.
So,

FoS: omg

However, I do agree with omg with Riverwind. He has made only one vote, and that was for Pablito. After that, he just seemed to fade away. I don't trust him either.

Vote: Riverwind

I was trying to figure out why Riverwind had a 2nd vote and ended up going back 3 pages to find this as the last input from Scotmany12 that I could find.
I'd like to hear from Scot, either explaining whether he still feels the same and why, or I'd like to see an unvote. Depending upon when the day ends, a 2 vote could easily put someone in a tie when the lynch happens.

[Ectomancer]

Vote Count Baby!

omg_im_innocent_wtf: 3 (Riverwind, pablito, Yamahoko)
pablito: 2 (Kenji, omg_im_innocent_wtf)

Adele: 1 (Ectomancer)
Riverwind: 1 (scotmany)
Ectomancer: 1 (Patrick)
HemisphereDancer : 1 (Jack)

See ya in the morning......Or will you?

Im a little confused, when I saw this I thought the day had come to an end? The "see ya in the morning" line led me to think it is now night. But then I dont see a lynch scene.
What's going exactly?

[Ectomancer]

I dont get the feeling omg is bluffing his claim, but if he is actually vanilla trying to protect our doctor by misleading scum, that still makes him not scum (added to other reasons I dont think he is scum). I guess it goes back to that hypothetical question asked earlier about would you sacrifice yourself to save the doctor.

Yamahako, that vote looked very opportunistic to me, especially since we know the day has to be getting short. Until I was assured otherwise, I thought it had actually ended with Arafax's 9:30 post. It especially didnt look good when your focus has been on Kenji, and then the omg seemed to come from out of the blue from you.

unvote Adele, Vote Yamahako

[Ectomancer]

Well, Adele is voting for me because of our conflict over her plan and whether putting that plan out makes her scummy.
I guess Patrick is voting for me because I secretly read his writings as the voice of Patrick from Spongebob.
Yamahako voted for me out of survival. I cant blame him there.
Pablito....who knows what Pablito's game is. He has constantly bounced his vote around, jumping on wagons instead of putting out his own suspicions, and engaging in vote swapping. My biggest suspect right now, despite my tiff with Adele (Her plan was scummy, but she doent feel that way, so putting it out may not be scummy) is Pablito.
My vote on Yamahako was more of a wrist slap for what looked like an opportunistic vote, though Im still not conviced he is scum. As far as that goes, in the Kenji vs Yamahako argument, I dont think Kenji has explained himself well.

I would like to move my vote to Pablito, but Im stuck because of the way votes are right now. I would be giving myself up as a sacrifice to save someone who has stated they are not doc.

[Ectomancer]

unvote, vote Pablito

Your jumping around so much, plus the vote swapping and behavior I listed in my last post is what is motivating this vote.

[Ectomancer]

What the hell, what's with all this selfishness. I don't get it.

Nonetheless, I still like my vote. Ecto just seems to be very opportunistic, doesn't seem to be consistent and he's not really reacting well to being the top vote getter.

I think that's a very poor assessment. I spent I dont know how many posts debating Adele and her plan. No consistency? As for the topic, the horse was beaten to death. There was little point continuing that line of discussion when all opinions had been weighed.
Yamahoko, in retrospect, I should have given an FOS instead of a vote, I still get more of a town vibe from him, but his jump on to omg was ill advised IMO.
I still feel fine with my vote for you. However, I'll consider Patrick's assertion that you are always a spaz. I also find your statement that

Im

not reacting well to being the top vote getter

fricken hilarious

after the exhibition just put on by omg. I dont think you could find a better example of "not reacting well".

[Ectomancer]

Great. So we have this wagon to lynch Ecto as an "experiment" so we know which way to vote next.....

Scotmany, Im baffled by how you think that lynching omg to see if he is really the doc or not would be a good call. With Yama claiming deputy, thereby covering a cop role another day, why would the real doc not claim and reveal omg as scum?

FOS:Scotmany

So we have two people claiming cops. This is big. As much as we need to focus on that, I think we are forgetting that omg claimed doc, and he was not killed. In my eyes, he is either doctor or scum. As I see it, there are three possible lynches for tonight. We can lynch one of the two "cops" or omg and see if he really is the doc.

I forgot votes clear after a night has passed, so of course

vote Pablito

. His claim of an investigation on me makes him undeniably scum #1, since he couldnt have and come back with a scum result.
2nd, if I were scum, why would I not have just killed Pablito last night? I see no evidence that omg thought Pablito might be cop.(I suspect that omg tried to protect me last night.)

Pabito is just scrambling after getting caught. He had no choice but to counterclaim cop, a lynch will prove him scum.

[Ectomancer]

So we have two people claiming cops. This is big. As much as we need to focus on that, I think we are forgetting that omg claimed doc, and he was not killed. In my eyes, he is either doctor or scum. As I see it, there are three possible lynches for tonight. We can lynch one of the two "cops" or omg and see if he really is the doc.

We should lynch either Ectomancer or Pablito - and here is why:

Pablito got a guilty on Ectomancer - if he's scum, so is Patrick - we've got 2 scum without having to take out Patrick in case he really is the cop - meaning if we believe Pablito ectomancer is the safer play (than Jack) in either case.

Jack got a Guilty on Pablito, meaning if we believe Jack, we take out Pablito.

I personally don't think we should get rid of jack at this point. In the case of two good players like pablito and jack, I'm not sure who to trust - meaning we should vote for Pablito or Ectomancer :-/ Obviously if Ectomancer is Scum so is Jack - and we can hit him tomorrow.

Patrick is dead...and he was townie...so you've tied me to town and still want to lynch me? /boggle

[Ectomancer]

vote Adele

[Ectomancer]

I can't believe it would be that easy.

But whatever you say.

Vote:Adele

Heheh me either. But that's cool. It will be my first win

[Ectomancer]

Hmmm, if we do have a Nurse out there, unless we are certain there is no Godfather, I would not claim. Godfather would have no fear of investigation, but could be annoyed by the nightkills having a chance of being blocked, and claiming would tell him right where the blocker was.
That vote put scotmany up by 2 Jack, not sure if you meant that or not. As he was highest on my scumdar anyhow, Im ok with it. Im not sure about the vote on Mayhem. Just because there may be a Godfather, and Mayhem turned up innocent, doesnt mean that Mayhem is it.

[Ectomancer]

Hot water on a griddle.
Scotmany, you wanted to lynch our doctor, you sided with scum on the cop issue, jumped on Mayhem, didnt explain it other than "after examining Mayhem's post I have come to a decision", then you say that you have no defense for voting Mayhem. Now you're trying to vote me for opposing first the scummy plan, and then for opposing Pablito. Why do I think Pablito tried to have me lynched? 1: I was going after his scumbuddy pretty hard. 2: I think he might have thought omg had me pegged for a power role because of the vote swapping they were engaging in over me. I refuse to confirm or deny it, as if there is a Godfather, either he would get a confirm by direct claim, or be able to make an educated guess by process of elimination.

Posting the quote in case you forgot where you advocated killing our Doc in the middle of a 2 cop claim.

So we have two people claiming cops. This is big. As much as we need to focus on that, I think we are forgetting that omg claimed doc, and he was not killed. In my eyes, he is either doctor or scum. As I see it, there are three possible lynches for tonight. We can lynch one of the two "cops" or omg and see if he really is the doc.

[Ectomancer]

You know, I dont buy the convenient role claim of Nurse when our entire view of the role layout has been speculation. Honestly, I completely expected a claim of Nurse from Scotmany after the pressure. What Im not hearing is anything from M4yhem. Are you not going to defend yourself? No offense Jack, your scumdar was on 2/2, but to get 3/3 and the Godfather on 3rd investigate? We've been seriously lucky, but like I said, an innocent result when we suspect Godfather does not mean guilt.
M4yhem, I think it's time for a claim.

[Ectomancer]

Is there anyone who can confirm Kenji's claim that a certain word is in bold in the townie pm?

lollll you just admitted you weren't townie.

[Ectomancer]

vote Jack

He's crazy!!

[Ectomancer]

Forgive me for not trying to pull off a line of BS, I suppose I should go down fighting but really what could I say?
A few things went wrong, (or right if you're town).
First, I really wanted to be lynched instead of Pablito. That would have led to a Jack lynch most likely and taken out the cop. Pablito would have been revealed at that point as scum since Jack really was the cop, but that would have been 2 night kills later, plus a 3rd that night too. Still it would have turned out fine most likely except.....
Jack got Adele on investigation the very next night. I must say that was a stroke of skill/luck and hats off to Jack.
I thought perhaps I could still pull it off until the nurse showed up and blocked the kill on Jack.
Even then, if Jack had investigated HD last night, my play would have been on Kenji's bogus "confirmed by Townie PM capitol word", pointing out that clearly Mayhem, who was lynched townie didnt get the word capitolized in his PM and we've been letting Kenji lurk and get by on a bad assumption.

Forgive me if Im breaking some mafiascum protocol by claiming scum and ending the game, but I saw no way out once I was investigated.

Good game to all, and excellent scumdar Jack. I look forward to playing with you all again.

[Ectomancer]

Actually I tried to play as if I didnt know who the scum were, and Adele's plan was one I would have attacked anyhow, so it was real.
Patrick was the killed on the toss of a coin. OMG could have been the play that night, but we felt we had a good chance at getting the town to lynch him.

I'm looking forward to hearing from others about the game (once it offically ends). This will be my 2nd finished game and I'm still learning every day that goes by.

[Ectomancer]

I thought from the role names of the scum, it was fairly clear there wasn't a GF. As far as I know, if scum have perks or abilities, they would come up as MAFIA GOON or MAFIA GODFATHER not just mafia scum. But it didn't matter in the end.

Where did you see role names before game end?

I personally like the fast style of this game and would definitely like to participate in another. Im not certain it was unbalanced, just some bad luck, or good reads by Jack

Thanks as well for modding Arafax

[Ectomancer]

That would be a rather weak game mechanic dont you think? According to comments in another game by Seol, information "telling" in the setup is avoided as much as possible on mafiascum. Otherwise, I would have fully expected to see OMG killed as the "Head Doctor" or something to equally tip off another role. I had no indication from his kill that a nurse might be out there, so why would the town get a tip off that a Godfather exists?

[Ectomancer]

Dont forget, if your day was shortened to find mafia, so was our opportunity to flush out power roles like the nurse. That would have made a big difference I think.