Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

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hi guys

- f

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svenskt why no entrance gif?

- f

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Orc is town.

yep

- f

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svenskt why no entrance gif?

- f

Too preoccupied with fabricating the fakeclaim.

Gut read on sven?

Pedit: Oh. >.>

Pedit: let me post

no, I'm leaning a little townish on svenskt.

- f

[²]

svenskt why no entrance gif?

- f

Too preoccupied with fabricating the fakeclaim.

Gut read on sven?

Pedit: Oh. >.>

Pedit: let me post

no, I'm leaning a little townish on svenskt.

- f

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Fery always townreads me and avoids RVS so I'm not getting anything out of her. However, if Sven ever does flip scum on a town-read from Fery, I'm looking at a lynch going that direction. I respect you too much as a town-player.

If he's scum, I doubt my town read will last. If he's town it may not last. I helped get him lynched in a recent game after townreading him earlier. worst town game I've played in a long time.

- f

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is this scum buddying up to the great svenskt?

calibration.

- f

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Nacho your recent actions are weird why'd you vote sven

Cabd's town as fuck, GiF is town as fuck, you're town as fuck, I can't lynch buldey on Day 1 because he is so great but ffery's posts will tell me their alignment.
MS is a boring vote.
Sven isn't towning hard enough for me yet.

Reminds me. Why no negotiation with buldermar this game?

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Nacho, I was going to ask buldermar if he knows, but he's not around. Why is MS an easy lynch?

- f

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and i know ffer well enough to not go inst town and disrespecting her scum game.

Now I'm not sure if you were disrespecting my town game or my scum game in Donner Party. Would feel pretty insulted if I hadn't earned it.

- f

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svenskt, my read on you is slipping.

- f

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svenskt, my read on you is slipping.

- f

awesome

post a gif about it.

- f

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

Can you link me to borkgame, please?

Link to the start of day 2 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4872611

Selkies = orcinus + fferyllt

do you want cliff notes?

- f

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

you went back on me before that, why was that?

you are scummy.

dummy. your "cracking" is reminding me of town-svenskt in that game.

- f

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do you want cliff notes?

Yes please!
I'm still going to read it, though.

Majiffy sledged the hell out of svenskt on day 2. I had a town read on svenskt, and didn't back him up strongly through most of that. I thought him refuting Majiffy's interpretation of some of his posts would be a hell of a lot more powerful than it going through the filter of my interpretation. He role claimed kinda early and replaced out.

the parallels aren't strong, but I'm getting a similar vibe.

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

you went back on me before that, why was that?

you are scummy.

dummy. your "cracking" is reminding me of town-svenskt in that game.

- f

i know that. i am saying that you are scummy anyway and i want to know why you went back on your town read on me.

Had to do with how you were replying to Nacho at that point in the thread. Tone, mostly. Also that you're claiming to scum-read me, when you townread me in our last game with very few fferyllt-town-like posts to base that judgment on. Usually I tend to take scum-reads as a sign of healthy town paranoia. My current calibration suggested that something is off here.

Now I'm waffling.

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

you went back on me before that, why was that?

you are scummy.

dummy. your "cracking" is reminding me of town-svenskt in that game.

- f

i know that. i am saying that you are scummy anyway and i want to know why you went back on your town read on me.

Had to do with how you were replying to Nacho at that point in the thread. Tone, mostly. Also that you're claiming to scum-read me, when you townread me in our last game with very few fferyllt-town-like posts to base that judgment on. Usually I tend to take scum-reads as a sign of healthy town paranoia. My current calibration suggested that something is off here.

Now I'm waffling.

yeah you are, wtf is this shit

this shit is probably your own damn mixed signals.

- f

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hi guys!

reading the thread now. I had forgotten that majiffy even signed us up for this game.

Why would a miller ever be killed?

Why the actual fuck would scum NK a miller?

nacho and orc are town

that was my reaction

yep.

- f

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Did you read my commentary on the bork game?

I did. I'm still thinking about it. I can see your points, but the experiental meta - living that game in real time - left some strong impressions. orcinus and I spent the entire game up until svenskt's replace-out with an extremely conflicted, impossible to reconcile read on him.

I was right. <insert smug smilie here>

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fery can you?

I've never seen scum get to endgame with a miller fake claim. there's a Romanian bicyclist we both know who I've seen gambit with a miller claim as scum. But we were so onto his gambiting that any non-pressured day 1 claim led to summary lynches back then.

- f

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It's offsite. That's still allowed to link to right?

yes

- f

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-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------

MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF POSTS INCOMING

-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------

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yeah i aint kidding. i am miller.

which also makes it impossible for me to be scum since i would have to explain down the road why i am not dead.

so... my scum plan must then involve the following

1. claim miller, hope people buy it
2. if people buy it, hope they dont question why i dont get nk´ed.

2

What the fuck is 2 even supposed to mean? Do you think you're likely to be nk'ed now that you've claimed to be a Miller? Why?

- b

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Vote 2

I can't actually type your name, too small X_X.

What's the point of this?

- b

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sit down and take it slowly, i dont like being pushed against a wall.

You don't like being pushed against a wall? You claimed miller and then claimed that you would never fakeclaim miller because then you would have to explain why you were alive or some shit. You shouldn't be surprised at this at all.

now your are planting words.

i never said i wouldnt, but its true, i would not.

your reactions are kinda expected but if you look objectively why would i do this as scum? in my eyes i have then limited myself in terms of "lifespan".

But i get what you are saying, all my logic can be used as scum as well.

How would you limit yourself in terms of "lifespan" by fake-claiming miller as scum?

- b

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I also see Sven as town at this moment.

Why did you see him as town at this moment?

- b

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Let's talk about Metal Sonic. He hasn't replied to or even acknowledged my RVS push. Wonder why?

Maybe because RVS push is the dumbest self-contradictory shit in this game?

- b

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If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Is that what you're doing?

He's obviously doing the opposite. Who would have guessed.

- b

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Although I have to admit, if Sven is scum he's playing this beautifully with the thought narration and inner monologue and stuff.

see now i wish i was scum.

how would you have played it thou? wouldnt you have hated if you started getting attached to the game and someone investigates you and you will try to explain? i really did not want that. would you have been quiet?

This looks town to me.

- b

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If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Is that what you're doing?

Oh wow, Nacho, you've got me. I''m sitting back and taking no sides on this, I definitely didn't already vote for sven and voice an opinion.

Hey lookz... bingo, jackpot, I nailed it. Now what do I win?

- b

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Nacho and orc, how do you read Cabd?

- b

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And mollie/Majiffy too.

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Metalsonic also seemed to deflect any RVS pressure, so I'd peg him as scum if sven was town.

You guys are retarded for putting RVS and pressure in the same sentence.

- b

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Huh, interesting.

unvote

Kindly elaborate on this.

- b

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Huh, interesting.

Elaborate on this plz.

^^ prolly town.

- b

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fery and I are probably going to fight

I generally don't fight when I'm hydraing. my partners do plenty of fighting without me adding to it.

if I'm following your trajectory, I don't think my svenskt read is too far off yours atm, though it's not been a straight line from there to here for me.

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^^ f

(I'll stop replying until b is done.

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i wanna vote cabd

no meeting ended

This is pretty much how I feel currently - will read the remainder of this thread first, though.

- b

(You don't need to stop replying until I'm done because it may be a while)

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Oh okay. So sort of like Buld hating on people who use "I have a life" as a dodge-reason.

I hate it not because it's dodging but because it's extremely insulting to tell other people that they don't have a life just because they post more frequently or dedicate more time to the game.

- b

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no its not. you weither buy that i am a miller, a cop cant prove it, so you cant really confirm my claim. and you are not getting what i am saying, if town , for some reason, decides to correctly clear player x, player x should be killed by scum,,, even if towns reasoning is wrong.

Nothing else really worth replying to in your post.

There's the absolute that you're forcing us into. You're making this a dichotomy in

A). All of town reads Sven scum. Sven lynched.
B). All of town reads Sven town. Sven making it to endgame is scummy.

Why are you not considering maybe

C). Town have differing reads on Sven. Sven is not lynched nor is investigated at night.
^^^HELLO SCUM SUCCESS^^^


Also I find using meta to justify the likelihood of a miller fakeclaim frankly stupid.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Forcing it into Black or White is really bad when Gray exists. I've also seen plenty of wolves claim miller and make it to a win in endgame, sooo...

VOTE: sven

here it is.

i dont like it because he is rewording orc´s thoughts just because, or so it feels to me. and i never said gray didnt exist, i just assumed that i would either be lynched or nk and not live to long.

If sven is town,

mafia would be staying far away

from this entire thing, IMO.

Let us whip ourselves

into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

This is odd aswell and just feels like he is getting a chance to "put himself" inside town and distancing from threat.
it lacks natural flow... cant precise it more then that

VOTE: cabd

I'm pretty sure steel is town. Firstly, this perfectly lines up with my thought. Secondly, if he was a scum making a miller gambit, I'd think he'd be more preoccupied contemplating what to do next and tunnel on self-meta stuff.

- b

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Nacho your recent actions are weird why'd you vote sven

Cabd's town as fuck, GiF is town as fuck, you're town as fuck, I can't lynch buldey

on Day 1

because he is so great but ffery's posts will tell me their alignment.
MS is a boring vote.
Sven isn't towning hard enough for me yet.

How is Cabd town as fuck?

Also fixed your post.

- b

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Nacho your recent actions are weird why'd you vote sven

Cabd's town as fuck, GiF is town as fuck, you're town as fuck, I can't lynch buldey on Day 1 because he is so great but ffery's posts will tell me their alignment.
MS is a boring vote.
Sven isn't towning hard enough for me yet.

Reminds me. Why no negotiation with buldermar this game?

I was sorting hoping you two would roll scum this game and I could get you lynched D1.
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.

When was the last time you got me lynched on day 1?

In fact, when was the last time you got me lynched? You like me as town and you know it.

- b

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You see obvtown on him?

(Just in case it wasn't clear I sort of want you to explain this)

Hell yeah. He just came off a game where I was his IC and we cleaned house pretty harshly, and his first instinct was to latch onto me a bit, figure out why I'm thinking what I'm thinking. I'd guess that he would be far more afraid of me as scum, maybe try to avoid me a bit; the way that he called us both town was also pretty genuine, with the "the aggression doesn't make them town but I think that the way things went down was pretty town" and all. He also has three townreads, which is more of a stance than most.

Was this the game with a perfect town win? I've heard stories and songs about it.

Btw, orc is probably town because f's usually right about him. We also agree that Nacho is likely town.

- b

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Can somebody just claim scum already this is getting ridiculous

How does one claim scum? I've tried several times unsuccesful.

- b

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So

Nacho is town
Cabd is town
GiF is probably town
Fery is probably town, meaning Sven is also probably town
BRO is probably town

This is the second most depressing type of list there is, right behind all scum.

Maybe we should go policy rach or something.

What the fuck why am I not sleepy

Why is Cabd town?

- b

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You see obvtown on him?

(Just in case it wasn't clear I sort of want you to explain this)

Hell yeah. He just came off a game where I was his IC and we cleaned house pretty harshly, and his first instinct was to latch onto me a bit, figure out why I'm thinking what I'm thinking. I'd guess that he would be far more afraid of me as scum, maybe try to avoid me a bit; the way that he called us both town was also pretty genuine, with the "the aggression doesn't make them town but I think that the way things went down was pretty town" and all. He also has three townreads, which is more of a stance than most.

Was this the game with a perfect town win? I've heard stories and songs about it.

Btw, orc is probably town because f's usually right about him. We also agree that Nacho is likely town.

- b

yep. that game. We will have words if you think BRO is scum.

- f

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ffer is right on me, that dont make her town.

she is just sucking up to the great svenskt until i decide that she isnt.

nacho wtf are you talking about

i get the "fucking with town reads" but i am just saying that i dont get the ffer=town after so few posts and so early.

For someone who doesn't understand how fake-claiming miller as scum can be viable you surely have high thoughts of yourself.

- b

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But I think if Fery's read is truly in development she doesn't like to voice them at all.

I mean, after calibration, "seems townish" is at least to me a decently solidified read

Unless someone in 2 wants to correct me

This is true.

- b

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Also, when you guys make references to plays not in the game by their nicknames it makes it hard to follow. Can somebody give me a cheat sheet of who is who here?

I am buldermar - one of the two heads of this hydra. I will try to sign all of my posts like this:

- b

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kid, you crack quick.

i just cant stand how bad you are.

So you decided to be worse?

- b

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orcinus, re svenskt I'm reminded of borkgame day 2 pretty forcefully. your thoughts?

- f

you went back on me before that, why was that?

you are scummy.

This was the first post in this thread I didn't hate.

thats kinda objectively bad on your part... alomst all of the shit i have posted is kind of towny for me.

You'd be a pretty awful scum if it wasn't, don't you think?

- b

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My thought process here is pretty simple guys, I voted nacho because he felt opportunistic springing on something I'd never seen happen before, but have seen scum try to get a lynch out of. He proved me wrong, so I unvoted. Now I am going to revote because of the wifom shitstorm that sven has created.

vote sven

I've been close to comment on literally every single post you've made because they have all been awful, but this probably beats the rest of them. I'm fine with a Tiphaine lynch as long as f doesn't oppose it.

- b

[²]

Nacho your recent actions are weird why'd you vote sven

Cabd's town as fuck, GiF is town as fuck, you're town as fuck, I can't lynch buldey on Day 1 because he is so great but ffery's posts will tell me their alignment.
MS is a boring vote.
Sven isn't towning hard enough for me yet.

I don't understand your cabd town read

Good, I'm not the only one.

- b

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I don't understand your cabd town read

I think I explained it earlier.
If I didn't, you can explain that Sven townread first!

Fairly sure you didn't or I would have noticed.

- b

[²]

NO BULDERMAR JUST MAKE ONE WALL
JUST ONCE

I did do it once. It was a long time ago, and I swore never to do it again.

- b

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fery and I are probably going to fight

Please no.

- b

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@b

Can you explain this

Gut.

Gut is not an explanation - it's lack thereof.

- b

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i think i have done awesomely

i am almost lock clear

You're also an outed power role for no good reason. I'm pretty sure you couldn't do much worse even if you tried.

- b

[²]

kid, you crack quick.

i just cant stand how bad you are.

So you decided to be worse?

- b

Um, no not really. It looks like a buncha townies arguing to me. Are D1 lynches typical here? I rarely get anything solid off of D1.

Because scum almost always have a nk available and because the game is designed such that there are usually limited protective and investigative roles it's almost always best to lynch someone.

- b

[²]

Yeah, because heaven forbid I agree with anyone that makes a good point. I voted for sven because I'm calling bullshit on the miller claim. Orc typed up the logic behind it pretty well, so why the hell would I need to re-invent the wheel when it's right there to quote?

Usually scum that feels the need to sheep someone else to take a stance aren't this aggressive when someone calls them out for sheeping. I purposely had a bit of a reaching attack, so the emotional response is pretty unwarranted at all. GiF's a little harder to explain, but his bias of MS isn't necessarily in a scum mindset. I'll be a little suspicious of him if MS turns out to be scum (since the claim of bias could actually just be covering up him being uncomfortable putting forward a read on his scumbuddy), but otherwise there's not really a scum advantage in having trouble reading what might be an easy lynch.

I don't think I can agree with that premise, but I guess I'll try to keep it in mind.

- b

[²]

@mollie

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4903999

look at 718 and 719. With svenskt it's a term of endearment.

In that game we were both town.

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^^ f

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Yes, they are and this seems like a weak excuse to not get involved. Like Nacho says, it's the only time you can be guaranteed to get your point across and heard for all to see.

I suppose you could see it that way. I've played with absolutely none of you before though. Also the largest game I've been a part of.

I don't know how anyone here plays. I'm more active after D1. You can call it scummy, I'll call it a learning curve.

Would it be possible for you to get a profile picture of some sort? It helps a lot when something concrete (such as a picture) is associated with posts rather than something abstract (such as a name).

- b

[²]

I don't think I can agree with that premise, but I guess I'll try to keep it in mind.

Why do you think he's scum?

Didn't like how he threw a RVS-vote in the middle of that miller-incident and then subsequently voted you instead - once again for no good reason and without the prior random vote having triggered anything what-so-ever.

Also didn't like the lack of explanation for unvoting you. It seems like he pretends to have had a reason to vote you in the first place, which I think he didn't. If he did I'd think he would have explained it since he felt the urge to explain his opinion of the miller-incident in the same post in which he voted you, which couldn't have been more important to town-him.

Makes sense?

Also, I know you say he's "obv town", but you don't seem as convinced about him as you usually are with your very strong town reads. For instance, you usually don't ask me why I think someone is scum if you're already very convinced that he's not.

- b

[²]

Strictly speaking the 2nd paragraph should be "Also don't like".

[²]

Oh yeah and I didn't like Andrius' entrance

Discuss

I have wallphobia, so I had to skip it.

- b

[²]

[4] Svenskt Stål (Cabd, Nachomamma8, GuyInFreezer, TiphaineDeath)

Shouldn't we at least postpone lynching him? If he's town (which I still think he is), we essentially have a tracker that can't be nk'ed (and if he is we saved ourself a lynch).

- b

[²]

miller AND tracker??? that just seems odd combo together.....

Actually I'd say it's quite common. I don't want to go into details because it hurts town, though.

- b

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congrats Rach and NS!

- fferyllt

[²]

Oh news NS and I are now engaged ♥

Congratulations =) Best of luck to the two of you!

- b

[²]

Id like majiffy to post soon

Me too. I miss trashtalking.

- b

[²]

Also, I know you say he's "obv town", but you don't seem as convinced about him as you usually are with your very strong town reads. For instance, you usually don't ask me why I think someone is scum if you're already very convinced that he's not.

I'm pretty convinced on him.
I think you're confused on who he is because he's never voted me this game.

Sorry, I think you're right. I was talking to f about Tip looking scummy and for some reason got the two of them mixed when you asked me.

- b

[²]

If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Nacho, this is the post. I also commented on it previously, I'll find the posts.

- b

[²]

If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Is that what you're doing?

He's obviously doing the opposite. Who would have guessed.

- b

If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Is that what you're doing?

Oh wow, Nacho, you've got me. I''m sitting back and taking no sides on this, I definitely didn't already vote for sven and voice an opinion.

Hey lookz... bingo, jackpot, I nailed it. Now what do I win?

- b

Nacho and orc, how do you read Cabd?

- b

And mollie/Majiffy too.

i wanna vote cabd

no meeting ended

This is pretty much how I feel currently - will read the remainder of this thread first, though.

- b

(You don't need to stop replying until I'm done because it may be a while)

[²]

fery and I are probably going to fight

Please no.

- b

well I am liking some of what you are posting so far. her play

is

different in this game but she said in pj that she had already noticed that it was different so I was warned and I am not going to jump all over her for it. between the 2 hydras, nacho and orc, I think we can all sort each other out. my only thing with you is that I haven't actually gone up against you as scum before but I am tired of fighting with you too so I am only going to go there is nacho and majiffy scumread you.

if we are all town then this is like a dream come true

eta: congratulations rach!

I'm going to make you crazy in this game. I've wound up being the diplomatic one in all three of my hydra accounts.

- f

[²]

Congratulations Rach!

[4] Svenskt Stål (Cabd, Nachomamma8, GuyInFreezer, TiphaineDeath)

Shouldn't we at least postpone lynching him? If he's town (which I still think he is), we essentially have a tracker that can't be nk'ed (and if he is we saved ourself a lynch).

- b

Why can't he be NK'd? I would've agreed if he'd just claimed miller but now he's added his other role too which makes him powerful if town.

@orc if he is a scum PR, he will be lynched eventually due to the miller claim no/

The point is that if he is NK'd then we saved ourself a lynch by not lynching him.

- b

[²]

If sven is town, mafia would be staying far away from this entire thing, IMO. Let us whip ourselves into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

Nacho, this is the post. I also commented on it previously, I'll find the posts.

- b

svenskt pointed up that post, too. iirc he thought it was awkward.

- f

[²]

Id like majiffy to post soon

Me too. I miss trashtalking.

- b

You know your two hydras mesh perfectly

Mollie and fery, you and majiffy...

Yes. It's like a dream come true.

- b

[²]

huh I thought Miller just returned a Guilty to a cop investigation? I did not think it made them NK immune?

I doesn't make them nk immune. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, or maybe you misread, idk which.

- b

[²]

Buldermar, is there a reason you think he is town if is the read ffery's?

Yes, but it's not that significant. I'll find the post.

- b

[²]

Although I have to admit, if Sven is scum he's playing this beautifully with the thought narration and inner monologue and stuff.

see now i wish i was scum.

how would you have played it thou? wouldnt you have hated if you started getting attached to the game and someone investigates you and you will try to explain? i really did not want that. would you have been quiet?

This looks town to me.

- b

i wanna vote cabd

no meeting ended

This is pretty much how I feel currently - will read the remainder of this thread first, though.

- b

(You don't need to stop replying until I'm done because it may be a while)

no its not. you weither buy that i am a miller, a cop cant prove it, so you cant really confirm my claim. and you are not getting what i am saying, if town , for some reason, decides to correctly clear player x, player x should be killed by scum,,, even if towns reasoning is wrong.

Nothing else really worth replying to in your post.

There's the absolute that you're forcing us into. You're making this a dichotomy in

A). All of town reads Sven scum. Sven lynched.
B). All of town reads Sven town. Sven making it to endgame is scummy.

Why are you not considering maybe

C). Town have differing reads on Sven. Sven is not lynched nor is investigated at night.
^^^HELLO SCUM SUCCESS^^^


Also I find using meta to justify the likelihood of a miller fakeclaim frankly stupid.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Forcing it into Black or White is really bad when Gray exists. I've also seen plenty of wolves claim miller and make it to a win in endgame, sooo...

VOTE: sven

here it is.

i dont like it because he is rewording orc´s thoughts just because, or so it feels to me. and i never said gray didnt exist, i just assumed that i would either be lynched or nk and not live to long.

If sven is town,

mafia would be staying far away

from this entire thing, IMO.

Let us whip ourselves

into a frenzy while they sit back and pop popcorn.

This is odd aswell and just feels like he is getting a chance to "put himself" inside town and distancing from threat.
it lacks natural flow... cant precise it more then that

VOTE: cabd

I'm pretty sure steel is town. Firstly, this perfectly lines up with my thought. Secondly, if he was a scum making a miller gambit, I'd think he'd be more preoccupied contemplating what to do next and tunnel on self-meta stuff.

- b

I subsequently realized that I'm maybe not giving him enough credit, because you mentioned having played with him before where he was much better or something in the lines of that IIRC.

- b

[²]

Okay Cabd is getting a lot of flak for 76 and I feel bad for it because 76 was a REPLY to my question on the previous page. He didnt pop that line out of nowhere

I actually missed this the first time around.

- b

[²]

Wait do why is Cabd scum

I really liked his interaction with me and I felt like his willingness to answer questions was townie

He wasn't taking a sit back from the Sven ordeal?

Okay Cabd is getting a lot of flak for 76 and I feel bad for it because 76 was a REPLY to my question on the previous page. He didnt pop that line out of nowhere

I don't think we're decided on cabd being scum. I'm not, anyway. I think I trust Nacho's impression over svenskt's.

- f

[²]

[4] Svenskt Stål (Cabd, Nachomamma8, GuyInFreezer, TiphaineDeath)

Shouldn't we at least postpone lynching him? If he's town (which I still think he is), we essentially have

a tracker that can't be nk'ed

(and if he is we saved ourself a lynch).

- b

Here this sounded like you were saying NK immune.

If I misunderstood that please clarify thanks

I realize that I could have been more specific, but the word "essentially" is supposed to mean something different than "literally".

- b

[²]

Why would any sane scum NK sven

Pedit: what's your read on Sven exactly

This is exactly why I used the word "essentially" - any sane scum wouldn't.

- b

[²]

Wait do why is Cabd scum

I really liked his interaction with me and I felt like his willingness to answer questions was townie

He wasn't taking a sit back from the Sven ordeal?

Okay Cabd is getting a lot of flak for 76 and I feel bad for it because 76 was a REPLY to my question on the previous page. He didnt pop that line out of nowhere

I don't think we're decided on cabd being scum. I'm not, anyway. I think I trust Nacho's impression over svenskt's.

- f

WHAT ABOUT MY IMPRESSION

I trust your impression too! And I'm kinda used to you and buldermar not agreeing on stuff after the poetic justice game.

We really need to play a game with that 3 headed hydra soon.

- f

[²]

So uh... Where the hell did sven go even?

It's 2 am his time I think.

He'll probably be back online in a couple of hours.

- f

[²]

So uh... Where the hell did sven go even?

It's 2 am his time I think.

He'll probably be back online in a couple of hours.

- f

This is correct, as Sweden and Denmark share timezone.

- b

[²]

VOTE: sven

nacho with that exchange with sven and fery is when I lost my town read on fery. up until then she was doing pretty good I think she made it to p8, lol. buldey has said a couple of things that I like but he has said some things that I don't like too.

you're talking about me. not to me. not liking this.

- f

[²]

also, if you had a genuine scum read on me you'd be screeching from the rafters right now, not voting someone else.

- f

[²]

VOTE: Mollie

change this if you disagree, buldermar.

- f

[²]

not necessarily.
mollie's the quietest around me when she has me pegged as scum.

That's how she is with you, then. Not me.

-f

[²]

change this if you disagree, buldermar? you would leave buldermar to read mollie?

If he disagrees I want to discuss it with him. It's not unheard of for me to misread her.

[²]

Pedit: Nacho, what do you make of this

I can read mollie better than I can read ffery.

This sure as hell isn't mollie's scum play

.

Then what is it when she scumreads me and votes someone else?

If she's done that before I cant remember it.

[²]

fery is scum?

Okay I haven't been reading close enough

I thought you resolved your issues over sven/fery interaction

I said fery is playing differently but said in pj that she thought her playstyle was different on here and I said that I would have to keep that in mind, remember? majiffy and nacho will be able to sort out buldey I think maybe I can too. I said I thought hers and sven's exchanges smelled like scum theatre and that nacho picked up on it too is a huge sign that we need to pay attention IMO. I am going to probably follow nacho's and majiffy's lead in this. does this make sense?

etaL thank you nacho! and fery should know this!

ok...so what the fuck was that if not a scum read?

[²]

fery is scum?

Okay I haven't been reading close enough

I thought you resolved your issues over sven/fery interaction

I said fery is playing differently but said in pj that she thought her playstyle was different on here and I said that I would have to keep that in mind, remember? majiffy and nacho will be able to sort out buldey I think maybe I can too. I said I thought hers and sven's exchanges smelled like scum theatre and that nacho picked up on it too is a huge sign that we need to pay attention IMO. I am going to probably follow nacho's and majiffy's lead in this. does this make sense?

etaL thank you nacho! and fery should know this!

ok...so what the fuck was that if not a scum read?

Have you missed mollie and I bouncing around a scumread on you?

I saw her working up to one, but then she posted something about liking buldermar for town. From my perspective there's no connect the dots between that post and the one where she votes svenskt.

[²]

Pedit: Nacho, what do you make of this

I can read mollie better than I can read ffery.

This sure as hell isn't mollie's scum play

.

Then what is it when she scumreads me and votes someone else?

If she's done that before I cant remember it.

I don't know where she said that you were scum, only that she was suspicious of you. As scum, how does she usually interact with you?

Last time she was scum, she decided to try getting me lynched on day 1. That was the game where I spotted the whole scum team on day 1.

[²]

the exchanges between her and sven for a moment smelled like scum theatre and reminded me a bit of her and sparkle in the homestuck game. sven reminds me a bit of me and I am surprised feri never mentioned that. especially with the "wtf is this shit" comment lol. I think it is super risk <little reward for scum to claim miller on d1 cos if there is a vig with half a brain they will make it nowhere near to endgame. miller/tracker on the other hand is a brilliant scum gambit cos it leaves a kernel of possible usefulness that would at least get him to midgame I mean sajin is already like "hey let him live til d3!" and he has a good point, but leaving a scum tracker in the game is REALLY dangerous cos increases scum's potential to find specials. scum would have to be really confident that they could convince town that they were town for realz and would require a lot of skill. I don't know sven so I do not know if he has that skill level or confidence or not.

well I am liking some of what you are posting so far. her play is different in this game but she said in pj that she had already noticed that it was different so I was warned and I am not going to jump all over her for it. between the 2 hydras, nacho and orc, I think we can all sort each other out. my only thing with you is that I haven't actually gone up against you as scum before but I am tired of fighting with you too so I am only going to go there is nacho and majiffy scumread you.

that is how read to me too fwiw. that is meant by what I that it looked like scum theatre. but I am not kidding I am not fighting with either of them.

so I am not crazy that is what it looked like then.

VOTE: sven

nacho with that exchange with sven and fery is when I lost my town read on fery. up until then she was doing pretty good I think she made it to p8, lol. buldey has said a couple of things that I like but he has said some things that I don't like too.

What in this progression is off?

I didn't see 395. Last unread post skips around due to both buldermar and me logged in and reading. And I think there was another post.

Ok. I still don't feel good about this. Going to talk to buldermar.

[²]

Last time she was scum, she decided to try getting me lynched on day 1. That was the game where I spotted the whole scum team on day 1.

That's not the question I asked...

Then I don't understand the question.

[²]

Last time she was scum, she decided to try getting me lynched on day 1. That was the game where I spotted the whole scum team on day 1.

That's not the question I asked...

Then I don't understand the question.

Does she usually try to lynch you?
Does she avoid you?
Does she townread you early?

You have no idea how few games we're talking about here. She used to avoid me. I can only think of one game we've played where she was scum in the last year. In that game she tried to get me lynched on day 1.

[²]

I didn't see 395. Last unread post skips around due to both buldermar and me logged in and reading. And I think there was another post.

You're aware of this skipping around, but you didn't check to see if you missed anything wrt mollie before you voted her?

I've been scrolling up every time I read the thread. thought I was caught up until I saw it in your quote.

buldermar's not around to talk to so how about you? You think this looks like town Mollie. Did you read her correctly as scum in that offsite game where she was scum a couple weeks ago?

[²]

You have no idea how few games we're talking about here. She used to avoid me. I can only think of one game we've played where she was scum in the last year. In that game she tried to get me lynched on day 1.

She still avoids me while scum. Last time she was scum in a completed game with me, her only interactions were why I was scumreading her partners. She hasn't really fooled either of us as scum specifically, but right now she has Majiffy who is a hell of a lot better than fooling both of us. Majiffy is busy at the moment, but she is taking POINT where is she but she is working with a scumread on you. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Yeah I actually penciled them in as town based on Mollie jumping in. I still can't get past her voting svenskt while pointing at me. She's quite proud of having spotted me as scum in several games, so if she thinks that I'm scum I'd totally expect her to come at me full bore, not vote someone else.

[²]

VOTE: sven

nacho with that exchange with sven and fery is when I lost my town read on fery. up until then she was doing pretty good I think she made it to p8, lol. buldey has said a couple of things that I like but he has said some things that I don't like too.

you're talking about me. not to me. not liking this.

- f

you this to me all of the time at tr. it is central to one of the main reasons as to why fight.

I said I would give you room and I am giving it. it is right there in poetic justice.

I have told you in gchat that I was going to give you more room in games cos I like to play with you.

why do you suddenly have amnesia and have forgotten all of this.

you are doing scummy things like not giving a lot of reads, hedging, not following up on those reads. you were indie in that game. I don't have a baseline for your town game on THIS site.

we covered this shit in poetic justice.

I swear to god you people don't actually read my posts you just do whatever and draw your own conclusions.

I also told you last week that I was in too many games.

orc I am not going anywhere lol, don't panic

I am clinging to you and nacho like a barnacle you will need an axe to pry me off

Yeah I remember all that. So, I'm going to have to put up with shit like this until you do have a baseline? Joy.

[²]

You have no idea how few games we're talking about here. She used to avoid me. I can only think of one game we've played where she was scum in the last year. In that game she tried to get me lynched on day 1.

She still avoids me while scum. Last time she was scum in a completed game with me, her only interactions were why I was scumreading her partners. She hasn't really fooled either of us as scum specifically, but right now she has Majiffy who is a hell of a lot better than fooling both of us. Majiffy is busy at the moment, but she is taking POINT where is she but she is working with a scumread on you. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Yeah I actually penciled them in as town based on Mollie jumping in. I still can't get past her voting svenskt while pointing at me. She's quite proud of having spotted me as scum in several games, so if she thinks that I'm scum I'd totally expect her to come at me full bore, not vote someone else.

Do you think that she was lying about this?

This hasn't felt like "room". It's going to take me some time to process, tbh. I'm not sure I am interested in playing a game this size for baseline building. Could be painful for all involved.

[²]

UNVOTE: Mollie

I'm not voting svenskt today.

- f

[²]

ffery, I don't understood why you lashed out at mollie and not at me.

I'm reading your posts through the filter of a pretty solid town read. But I think if you had voted someone and then written a paragraph about me looking scummy in the same post you would have gotten a wtf reaction too.

[²]

Fery why are you so sure that Sven is town?

I'm not "so" sure. But, I felt like the proximate cause of his posting that he was a tracker as well as miller, and I had the same feeling of being the proximate cause when he claimed in the borkgame. That's subjective, but I have processed subjective stuff with him in every game we've played and been right about his alignment, even our first game before I had any experiential meta. I had the sense that he and another player had talked about me outside the game thread. Turned out they were both scum.

So, I won't vote him today.

[²]

jesus. the last however pages have all been fferyllt posts.

[²]

ffery, I don't understood why you lashed out at mollie and not at me.

I'm reading your posts through the filter of a pretty solid town read. But I think if you had voted someone and then written a paragraph about me looking scummy in the same post you would have gotten a wtf reaction too.

it was nebulous and I have been explaining why but it seems like you are not reading my posts cos I keep having to say the same things over and over again

this does not clear the path to giving you room and not scumreading you for it do you understand why?

Did you read my 510? I don't think I can make it clearer than that.

Nacho asked why I didn't react to him the way I reacted to you. And that's based on how I originally processed your catch up posts, and in particular your vote post.

[²]

That one exception was from the chatmafia game that I modded once, but I don't think she snapped this hard.

You thought I snapped in that game?

[²]

I'm reading your posts through the filter of a pretty solid town read. But I think if you had voted someone and then written a paragraph about me looking scummy in the same post you would have gotten a wtf reaction too.

But she explained it later, and you were frustrated with her explanation. Why?

I said it didn't feel like "room". With Mollie, hard resets aren't easy. I'm working on it.

[²]

ffery, I don't understood why you lashed out at mollie and not at me.

I'm reading your posts through the filter of a pretty solid town read. But I think if you had voted someone and then written a paragraph about me looking scummy in the same post you would have gotten a wtf reaction too.

it was nebulous and I have been explaining why but it seems like you are not reading my posts cos I keep having to say the same things over and over again

this does not clear the path to giving you room and not scumreading you for it do you understand why?

Did you read my 510? I don't think I can make it clearer than that.

Nacho asked why I didn't react to him the way I reacted to you. And that's based on how I originally processed your catch up posts, and in particular your vote post.

catch up posts are processed differently than IRT posts

aren't you the one who taught me this

and you are being dodgy with some of things that I have been posting like don't you usually just post the post instead of tossing a post number there is a question I asked you earlier why have you not answered it

No, I've gotten into the MS habit of post numbers, though if I'm taking my time I make them links.

I will have to look for your question. And that's going to happen after I get home. I might even have the reset thing done by then.

[²]

when is the last time you read me as scum in game where I wasn't? you usually swat me aside with no worry cos you read me as town and I am the one who is trying to push for a solid town read.

on this site you have said that your playstyle is different and I have been trying to give you room

what part of that do you not understand. <----- do you see what I had to do right then I had to repeat myself AGAIN and I swear I think that I would not have to repeat myself THIS MUCH if you were town.

I don't know what you expect as an answer. I am what I am. My reactions are what they are.

I think you expect me to be playing here at MS at the level I was playing when I essentially stopped playing elsewhere. Given the environment here - the fact that players I have some meta on (and in many cases a ton of meta) are playing against a backdrop of unknown players moving in patterns I don't know yet - I am not playing at that level. In my first game with Nacho, I had an erroneous town read on him. I've adjusted. Majiffy nearly got past me in the borkgame. I dunno if I've adjusted. I think so. buldermar turned me into a freakin project in the BSG game. I won't know if I've adjusted until I play in a game where he is scum. I haven't played a game with you as town here so neither of us have a MS baseline.

You're pushing me for a town read on you. I still have a ton of adrenaline to get out of my system. You're not going to get one until and unless I'm comfortable you are town. Or not. In the meanwhile, I'm backing off until I am comfortable. Maybe we both need a little space.

[²]

And that's it from me on this shit for now.

- f

[²]

Do you wanna post on everything else?

Yes. I'm going back however many pages and reading what was happening around this crap.

[²]

I like where mac's head is at

You still feel this way? I remember thinking that Mac was asking peripheral questions.

[²]

1+1=sven

This is my kind of math.

Miller-tracker in non-bastard game? Eh... I really don't like it at all. One part is always mafia (red investigation) and the other is mafia-capable (tracker). But, at the same time, I really think this is the better vote.


VOTE: TiphaineDeath

Too many bad posts. Voting Nacho immediately because no scum would ever miller claim? Bad. If you don't think scum would do it, they'll try it. Unvoting with "Huh, interesting". Also bad. Bad scum must die, and I wish I could do math with that name but I can't.

I can hardly do math anyways.

Too many? More than two?

Why are we still on the Miller/tracker thing and not lynching scum TD? I am very mildly put off that we have yet to focus the minute attention needed to lynch that motherfucker.

Let's face it, TD is scum. If you want Sven to be scum in your happy world, that's fine, too. But confirmed scum die first.

Maybe you could make a bit more of a case.

[²]

Somebody had Andrius down as scum. Who was it?

[²]

Orc.

I disagree with orcinus.

[²]

Yes, they are and this seems like a weak excuse to not get involved. Like Nacho says, it's the only time you can be guaranteed to get your point across and heard for all to see.

I suppose you could see it that way. I've played with absolutely none of you before though. Also the largest game I've been a part of.

I don't know how anyone here plays. I'm more active after D1. You can call it scummy, I'll call it a learning curve.

Would it be possible for you to get a profile picture of some sort? It helps a lot when something concrete (such as a picture) is associated with posts rather than something abstract (such as a name).

- b

Sure. But only because you asked so nicely

Excellent avatar choice.

- f

[²]

Tiphane is also reading as town in his own weird way.

explain?

[²]

In other news, we can lynch TMTOLBTWNTOF whenever you guys are ready to.

Out of all the posts to focus on up to that point, it was an interesting one.

[²]

Hi GiF.

- f

[²]

In other news, we can lynch TMTOLBTWNTOF whenever you guys are ready to.

Out of all the posts to focus on up to that point, it was an interesting one.

It's a very easy post to talk about.

True. And an easy wagon to telegraph joining, at the time anyway.

[²]

In other news, we can lynch TMTOLBTWNTOF whenever you guys are ready to.

Out of all the posts to focus on up to that point, it was an interesting one.

It's a very easy post to talk about.

True. And an easy wagon to telegraph joining, at the time anyway.

if it is an easy post to talk about then why not talk about it instead of providing hedge

I'm not sure if you mean TMTwhatev or me.

I've made it pretty clear what I think of a svenskt wagon.

[²]

That one exception was from the chatmafia game that I modded once, but I don't think she snapped this hard.

You thought I snapped in that game?

GiF you never answered this.

[²]

at first blush I don't know what to make of Ghostlin's posts.

- f

[²]

Nacho, could you elaborate on your Tiphaine read?

[²]

[quote="In post 644, BeautyAndTheBeast"if it is an easy post to talk about then why not talk about it instead of providing hedge[/quote]
I'm not sure if you mean TMTwhatev or me.

I've made it pretty clear what I think of a svenskt wagon.[/quote]

well my post was directed towards you so I was talking

to

you, that thing you said that I was not doing earlier but now seem to be confused about

who has mentioned sven recently

why would I be talking about him

isn't he in bed

you said "it was a very easy post to talk about" but it seems like you do not want to talk about tmt cos you didn't talk about him[/quote]
Are you backing off or not?


Nacho said it was an easy post to talk about.

That was page 18. He's made 2 posts. I don't like the vibe from that second post. If I didn't want to talk about him why would I have replied to Nacho?

[²]

gah quote fail

[²]

then what else do you have to say about tmt?

That he's in my scum pile. Where do you have him?

and I had to NOT BACK OFF when you started your hard push on me and have had to slowly work up to a maybe a null read. you haven't said recently what you think about us.

No I haven't. I have confidence you can figure it out for yourself.

[²]

you guys suck at this forum

I'm going to assume that you don't want to answer my question, so I won't ask it a 3rd time.

dammit

[²]

orcinus, you have a town read on TMT?

- f

[²]

I want to understand Nacho's read and talk with buldermar about TD. I think buldermar was considering voting him.

[²]

That one exception was from the chatmafia game that I modded once, but I don't think she snapped this hard.

You thought I snapped in that game?

GiF you never answered this.

You know the answer already.
Just in case you're not clear, yes.

I'm not sure why you thought that, but ok.

I was town.

- f

[²]

Sorry, Sven. Your wagons tend to have an unbearable amount of friction and irrelevancy. If Ghostlin was here, I'd keep my vote there and make a case or something. Ghostlin, however, is not here.

also what the fuck does relevancy have to do with a wagon.

How many other players have weighed in on Ghostlin?
It's an irrelevant wagon.
How many other players have said something about Sven?
It's a relevant wagon.

One flip will tell us more about the rest of the players than the other.

Hope this makes sense. Sometimes I'm far too in my head.

I think I get this. But I don't understand why you said Svenskt's wagon was irrelevant in the first quote.

- f

[²]

Fery. Vote varsoon with me?

Hi metal sonic nice to meet you. Are you going to vote someone?

I still need to talk with buldermar.

[²]

Fery. Vote varsoon with me?

Hi metal sonic nice to meet you. Are you going to vote someone?

I still need to talk with buldermar.

You seem to be a lot more guarded with your reads and thought processes this game

I do? I've put down a ton of reads since the game started. As of last night there are a few people who haven't participated enough for me to have a read yet. And a couple reads are pretty soft based on a handful posts.

I'm not going to srsvote again without catching up with buldermar.

re varsoon, compared to the borkgame he seems a lot more way out there. he tunnele us/selkies pretty hard on day 1 of that game. His "case" (hesitate to use the term) on you is bizarre, but reading through it, I don't think he's taking himself seriously so I'm not sure what the point is.

[²]

Right now, I can't see the scum motivation in going after orcinus. IMO it was doomed to fall on deaf ears and IMO varsoom knows that. So, I think it was mostly about getting reactions (not just from orcinus).

- f

[²]

What reactions were worth gathering?

I mean, come on. Everything that happened was very much expected. I slammed Varsoon and voted him and built a case, people reinforced their townreads on me, what the hell was /supposed/ to happen?

Just like his disguise of the Aj sheep, the case on me is a failed act by scum that Varsoon is trying to disguise as a reaction test.

And you know my policy on reaction tests. If it's past RVS and you don't know what you're looking for or can't state what you found, you're scum for it.

Pedit: Not really no he isn't

Which wagon push do you think would yield more results?

Pedit: Hi

When did we play a game together, Aj? Because I don't remember you

Taking it under advisement.

[²]

Really? I feel like several of my reads have gone against the grain so far.

I'm in 3 hydras right now. The working arrangement is different in all three, in terms of how independently we act. All of my games with buldermar are still in progress so I can't point to them as indicative of how things work with us, but I tend to play a quieter game when we're playing together. In part because other players get pissed off about the number of posts we make. In this game, at least we're not far and away the most prolific.

I'm also finding when I play using my main account that I'm posting less and being a little less aggressive.

Really? I feel like some of my reads have gone against the grain so far.

I'm in 3 hydras right now. The working arrangement is different in all three, in terms of how independently we act. All of my games with buldermar are still in progress so I can't point to them as indicative of how things work with us, but I tend to play a quieter game when we're playing together. In part it's because other players get pissed off about the number of posts we make. In this game, at least we're not far and away the most prolific.

[²]

that's weird.

That highlight quote thing?

[²]

@Mollie what are your thoughts re Varsoon?

[²]

Really? I feel like some of my reads have gone against the grain so far.

I'm in 3 hydras right now. The working arrangement is different in all three, in terms of how independently we act. All of my games with buldermar are still in progress so I can't point to them as indicative of how things work with us,

but I tend to play a quieter game when we're playing together. In part it's because other players get pissed off about the number of posts we make. In this game, at least we're not far and away the most prolific.

wrt the bold: what does playing a quieter game have to do with you giving out your reads. you are deflecting what I am saying by making my point about volume rather than content.

Then I misinterpreted what you were asking. You said my reads were followy. I don't think they are. But, they are sometimes time-delayed because I want buldermar's thoughts. Even so, I've mostly been giving out my reads as I've solidified them. There are some players that haven't even hit my radar and I'm working on them this morning. I'll post a reads list sometime this morning and I'll indicate if it's a consensus or solely my thoughts. Not sure when buldermar and I will connect.

[²]

f told me you fucktards think we're scum. Now I feel like I have to read through this thread to figure out why you're being idiots when I should be working on my exam.

[²]

Is there something I need to respond to before I start reading?

[²]

VOTE: sven

nacho with that exchange with sven and fery is when I lost my town read on fery. up until then she was doing pretty good I think she made it to p8, lol. buldey has said a couple of things that I like but he has said some things that I don't like too.

you're talking about me. not to me. not liking this.

- f

fwiw I briefly talked to f about this before going to bed. I was mostly concerned with how mollie didn't have any clear read on our slot. First she simultanously read me as town and f as scum. Then she simultanously read me as town and scum. Usually she has a clear read, even when she's wrong.

- b

[²]

-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------

MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF POSTS INCOMING

-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------
-------- WARNING --------

Exactly.

[²]

Pedit: Nacho, what do you make of this

I can read mollie better than I can read ffery. This sure as hell isn't mollie's scum play.

If you didn't already, please clarify.

- b

[²]

"anything I need to respond to before reading"
hell no that's stupid as shit

cos he is in a hydra and can just ask fery what the tl;dr version is

I think they are scum

Which I did. She told me that the two of you had a run in, that Nacho decided we're scum and that orc wants us to vote varsoom, who went on a wall-posting spree overnight with utterly bizarre stuff. I then told her I'd be reading and she told me she'd not be posting for a while.

- b

[²]

The biggest ping is her leaving pulling the "unvote if you disagree with this, buldermar".

We live in different timezones. I had gone to bed by the time she voted, and I was likely going to wake up prior to her, which she is aware of.

- b

[²]

I've been waiting for buldermar to roll scum D1 this whole fucking time.

As opposed to rolling scum on any other day? I don't follow.

- b

[²]

Buld initiated and was scum. Fery got so frustrated she self-hammered.

Way to undermine my expertise as scum by stripping away the fact that I manipulated her into self-hammering -_-

- b

[²]

I am too tired and still feeling bad to really fight so I prefer to let majiffy do it if he scumreads buldey cos I don't think he can really read you

I'll almost guarantee that he will scum read me even if the two of you are town - that's sort of what he does.

- b

[²]

UNVOTE: Mollie

I'm not voting svenskt today.

- f

fwiw I support this.

- b

[²]

[4] Svenskt Stål (Cabd, GuyInFreezer, TiphaineDeath, BeautyAndTheBeast)

Going by my new hypothesis of noobness tendencies, there probably was a scum jumping on this wagon while stating a silly reason for doing so. It's reassuring that I'm already leaning scum on Tip and Cabd. Will look into this later.

- b

[²]

I don't like how buldermar responded to my Cabd town read. I don't like his vote on TD.

I think didn't actually get around to putting down the vote, but what do you dislike about these two things?

- b

[²]

you are the one who will have to deal with buldey

You are probably going to regret this.

- b

[²]

i am gonna deal with buldey.
i have been waiting for him to draw scum D1 for years and for years.
he can take me no matter how aggressive i get.

lol, I <3 you

but tbf he was scum in the game where you were sole survivor SK

Oh right - the game in which I correctly identified Nacho as a SK, got him lynched, and secured a perfect victory. Hur hur hur

- b

[²]

this game doesn't count, but it will be good for a scum buldey baseline

What can I do to help you stop being an idiot?

- b

[²]

mollie/Majiffy are probably town because of Majiffy.

- b

[²]

I prefer to let majiffy do it if he scumreads buldey cos I don't think he can really read you. you had EVERYONE fooled in homestuck EVERYONE fooled and in SWotOR.

I wasn't in either of those games...?

Hey Majiffy you're finally town.

Right? Finally broke out of that like 7-game-scum-rolling streak. It was awful. I think I even had a town performance suffer because I thought I was scum in it.

Is the fence leaving an imprint on your butt yet

I loved this line the first time, thank you for reminding me.

How do you read rach?

Incredibly easily. She flounders more than a fish out of water as scum, it's painful to watch.

----
Town
{

Nacho

, 2,

GIF

,

Orci

, Sven, dfc,

AJ, Rach

,

Ghostlin

}

Scum
{Cabd, Tiphane,

Mac

}

VOTE: TiphaneDeath

Ya mollie/Majiffy are town.

- b

[²]

Alright I'm off to sleep. Someone make sure Buldermar doesn't have access to a keyboard tomorrow so I don't come back to another 25 pages.

[²]

27 pages...
1 day...
Everyone hates me...
Don't you people have lives?
I'm sorry but I really don't have time to read all this tonight, I'll figure it out tomorrow.

Nacho, how the fuck can you be town reading this?

- b

[²]

27 pages...
1 day...
Everyone hates me...
Don't you people have lives?
I'm sorry but I really don't have time to read all this tonight, I'll figure it out tomorrow.

VOTE: TD

Nacho you're like. Wrong.

Good. We'll be voting TD as well unless f has a good reason not to.

- b

[²]

This is TD's response to orc asking him to vote Sven. While he could have sheeped, could have said "ok, cool", he looked through the thread again, found a better vote. Yeah, it's strange that he's voting for me and not for orc, but I like that he at least made an attempt on independent thought.

What independent thought?

- b

[²]

That being said, I don't really mind votes on him; he just seems like a slow start player in general, so I'll be much more interested in things once he posts his catchup.

You don't really mind votes on him? How is that compatible with town reading him? Why don't you just explicitly admit that you're wrong with your read on him?

- b

[²]

and buldey left out a huge response to the middle of his catch up yesterday, things I would think that he would respond to

I did leave it out, and I was going to respond to it, but f said she already pressured you on gchat so I figured I'd leave it be. I already pointed out what stood out to me.

- b

[²]

I am too tired and still feeling bad to really fight so I prefer to let majiffy do it if he scumreads buldey cos I don't think he can really read you

I'll almost guarantee that he will scum read me even if the two of you are town - that's sort of what he does.

- b

no it isn't

he prefers to work with you

and you work with him when you get a town read

Maybe I was biased because he has been scum the last trillion games we have played together, and he has been trying to get me lynched in all of them. Either way, I'm convinced that the two of you are town because he's not being a lazy fuck, and his reads are in accordance with mine.

- b

[²]

I don't like how buldermar responded to my Cabd town read. I don't like his vote on TD.

I think didn't actually get around to putting down the vote, but what do you dislike about these two things?

- b

You asked me about my Cabd read. I quoted some old reasoning about it, asked why you disagreed. You told me my read on him wasn't that strong, and made a case on TD. Do you see the problem with that?

I thought I already explained why I mixed up the two at the time. What is it that you think the problem is exactly?

- b

[²]

Oh right, 2 is scum reading TD too

Hmm

I wonder...

You wonder what? You do realize that I identified him as scum long before you guys were even ready to entertain that idea?

- b

[²]

whoops
But if you want me to stop being an idiot, actually post something with any semblance of being town.

I'm just going to trust that you'll eventually quit being an idiot.

- b

[²]

buldey would understand

I don't understand it. She didn't even participate in that game.

- b

[²]

buldey was mentored in that game, so his catching me as SK wasn't clean.

What the fuck? No I fucking wasn't. I identified you on my own, which I'm positive she can confirm.

Also fuck you for trying to discredit me in this manner.

[²]

That being said, I don't really mind votes on him; he just seems like a slow start player in general, so I'll be much more interested in things once he posts his catchup.

You don't really mind votes on him? How is that compatible with town reading him? Why don't you just explicitly admit that you're wrong with your read on him?

- b

You are really trying my patience, buldey.

Likewise, but I'll return the favor of love and deal with it. If you were Majiffy I would be applying caps lock by now.

- b

[²]

Er, felice.

Go reread the fucking game then. You're just being butthurt because your SK game was so transparent. Only after the game finished when I talked to raven did she claim to have also identified you as SK because you supposedly dropped your "killer-role-tells". Nothing that Felice said or did influenced my read on you, which should be evident from the scum quick topic.

[²]

I'm going to eat and then do something useful in this game to satisfy Nacho's needs.

[²]

Go reread the fucking game then. You're just being butthurt because your SK game was so transparent. Only after the game finished when I talked to raven did she claim to have also identified you as SK because you supposedly dropped your "killer-role-tells". Nothing that Felice said or did influenced my read on you, which should be evident from the scum quick topic.

sorry, unfair.
but I don't really think that it's relevant to this game.
are you caught up?

Not fully, but sorta. Still have some things to do.

- b

[²]

Back-ish.

buldermar tried to talk me into a TD vote. I'm not feeling it. Nacho, your reasons for thinking he's town made sense.

Buldermar and I had a chance to talk about varsoon, too. He agrees with me that the overnight walls don't look scum-motivated.

I'm still pretty pissed off at Mollie. Any "room" she was supposedly giving me in this game IMO was mythical. In post 283 she'd already started in on me with the 3rd person shit. But, I think she's town so I'm going to suck it up, despite holding back massive quantities of snark.

[²]

@Sajin you put down an early vote on varsoon based on his fencesitting(?) re the svenskt role claim stuff. What are your current thoughts?

- f

[²]

Shit I didn't even see page 28

It's k, this game is moving at a mile a minute.

Yeah, no kidding. There's so many posts I had to read through. It's hard to comb out scum with so many players (this is by far the largest, and most active game I've ever played in). I'm running out of breath just trying to catch up with everything.

I can understand the Varsoon wagon. I don't feel strongly about it so I'm not jumping on board. I don't like the town claim at all though.

I don't understand the TD wagon, though. Seems to just be reaction fishing?

Sorry for not being as active as everyone else. I'm going to try to step up the activity. I'm hoping the game slows down a bit so I can do so more easily. Hard to keep up when I go offline and come back to 10 more pages of posts to comb through.

I like this post, but there's a hell of a lot more going on in the game thread than those wagons. What are your thoughts about AJ? (bulder/me)? Svenskt?

[²]

The guy I mentored in that game you guys were talking about would appreciate it if his name doesn't get posted here again btw.

- f

[²]

I had to go back five pages to find where I last posted. Wow.

Then I misinterpreted what you were asking. You said my reads were followy. I don't think they are. But, they are sometimes time-delayed because I want buldermar's thoughts. Even so, I've mostly been giving out my reads as I've solidified them. There are some players that haven't even hit my radar and I'm working on them this morning. I'll post a reads list sometime this morning and I'll indicate if it's a consensus or solely my thoughts. Not sure when buldermar and I will connect.

I'm still waiting for you because your reads aren't what I'm looking for. I have a general feel how your hydra works, I know how it is to be the passive partner. But this isn't you being the passive partner, this is you playing off. I'm only willing to cut you a certain amount of slack because of mollie frying your wires.

Ok...

I also don't understand why ffery stopped posting. Taking a step back? Cool. Completely vanishing before she gives out her complete read set? Bad.

duty called. I should be moderately here for the next few hours. bulder and I didn't have time to talk about all our reads, so what I'll post in a bit may not agree completely with him.

[²]

Nacho, re your AJ read. Are there some meta reasons or is it based entirely on his in-thread posts? I picked up the idea that there is meta somehow.

[²]

Nacho, re your AJ read. Are there some meta reasons or is it based entirely on his in-thread posts? I picked up the idea that there is meta somehow.

Part meta, mostly in thread. I'd like to keep the meta part to myself.

Reading his posts takes about a minute and a half. He looked like he was setting up to tunnel TD, but branched out to questioning others in his last couple of posts. He disagreed with you about TD and didn't back down. And there's that t v t thing that you didn't like.

Aside from feeling that he's a little more aggressive than I'd expect for a really low-volume poster he's not standing out.

[²]

Town: orcinus, nacho, B&B, BRO

Leaning town:
svenskt (for today - pretty sure this is my view only , not buldermar's)
Andreius
GiF (that was a weird thing about the chat game, though)
Cabd (in part based on nacho and to a lesser extent Rach)

Null/Town:
Rach (always and forever I swear)
Varsoon
Ghostlin (this read could slide)
Mac

Leaning Scum:
TD (buldermar's read mostly)
TMTwhatev
Maybe AJ

Not enough info to go on: Sajin, dntfkingcare, Metal Sonic, jon_h61

This is not a consensus list (yet anyway), but some of my views are influenced by buldermar's opinions.

[²]

F, same question to you as I asked buldey. Are you reading the mollie head as town?

Pretty sure I already answered this. Yes.

[²]

@2: Thanks for the list. Could you articulate why you think these more active players are town and these less active ones are scum?

With the exception of BRO, I have a lot of experiential meta to go on. With BRO, we just finished playing a newbie game together so his town game is quite fresh in my mind. I also have a lot of experiential meta with Svenskt, but I've tended to null/slightly town read him early on. This game's not really different in that respect. The first game I played with him, he was scum, so I think I have a scum baseline to work from.

TD and TMP both clanged pretty hard early on. I like Nacho's narrative about TD's posts and that's swayed me townward. I don't think buldermar and I could reach an agreement on lynching him given the current game landscape. With AJ, for now I'm following Nacho. I have him down for a meta dive when I have time.

[²]

First of all, your read was oriented completely around TD-me-mollie-orc, things like that. You ignored the Varsoon situation completely, and you found nothing to comment on from anyone else. What do you think of everyone else?

I was mostly concerned with how mollie didn't have any clear read on our slot. First she simultanously read me as town and f as scum. Then she simultanously read me as town and scum. Usually she has a clear read, even when she's wrong.

Why did this concern you? Was there a game you played with mollie-scum where she didn't have a clear read on you?

If you didn't already, please clarify.

- b

I asked you what you thought of her, saw nothing. What do you think of her and her specifically?

Which I did. She told me that the two of you had a run in, that Nacho decided we're scum and that orc wants us to vote varsoom, who went on a wall-posting spree overnight with utterly bizarre stuff. I then told her I'd be reading and she told me she'd not be posting for a while.

And you not commenting on Varsoon at all but commenting on us, commenting on me. That was suspicious. It shows you're more concerned about fixing your rep than looking for the scum you're supposed to be finding.

I'll almost guarantee that he will scum read me even if the two of you are town - that's sort of what he does.

This seemed strange, considering your immediate townread on Majiffy after. I felt like you were preemptively defending against the Majiffy scumread, especially since I don't remember him ever calling you scum except when he was scum and being an idiot.

What can I do to help you stop being an idiot?

You usually know when I'm empty shit-talking.
You know that I'm not sure of a scumread on you two or I wouldn't be afraid to tunnel the shit out of you.

Nacho, how the fuck can you be town reading this?

This question is very, very late. You never followed up when you mixed him and Cabd up before.

What independent thought?

Read his most recent post that's not "town rage".

You don't really mind votes on him? How is that compatible with town reading him? Why don't you just explicitly admit that you're wrong with your read on him?

My townread on him until recently had to make a lot of inferences. Since he's not as bleedingly town as others, I would rather people like orc put on TD votes instead of Varsoon votes, for example.

I thought I already explained why I mixed up the two at the time. What is it that you think the problem is exactly?

Lack of followup. You were like "whoops, wrong one". And the fact that you didn't notice you mixed them up until I pointed out you did showed me that you sure as hell didn't read my reasoning for him being town. But mostly, it was the lack of followup.

What the fuck? No I fucking wasn't. I identified you on my own, which I'm positive she can confirm.

Also fuck you for trying to discredit me in this manner.

Sorry, I fucked up. But did you really think that I was trying to discredit your town game?

1) I read it rather selectively. I don't have much time due to an exam so I skipped a lot of the longer posts. For instance, I didn't read the content of the long posts Varsoon and Majiffy made. I just noticed what kind of reads they had and made my read based on that. Varsoon voted someone who was unlikely to get lynched (I don't even remember who) after an asburdly long entrance post, so I asserted that he is probably town based on that. Majiffy is active and seems to care, so he's town. I still think TD is scum. I also don't like Cabd. I havn't found a reason to think orc or you are scum, so I'm just going to trust f's town read on the two of you. I'm not certain that Sven is town, but lynching him today is dumb. I have no idea how to read Rach - I've reached the conclusion that her posts just always seem anti-town to me regardless of her alignment. I want to have a look at the Sven wagon as I've already mentioned, but havn't had time yet. I havn't really read the rest of the players posts careful enough to make any read.

2) You're essentially pointing it out yourself. Usually she does have a clear read on me (it being town or scum), even if that read is wrong. I felt like she didn't have any clear read on first our slot and then me this game, which is what I would expect from scum-mollie. As it turns out, I was probably wrong, because I don't see Majiffy making all these posts as scum.

3) See above.

4) I can see why you're thinking this, but turn the table for a moment. What would your reaction be if I ignored all of your questions and instead continued with finding scum? I'm pretty sure you'd assert that I would be trying to direct attention away from me. I trust that f and I will be able to find something if you'll just calm yourself and at least entertain the possibility that you're wrong with your current read.

5) He has called me scum both as scum and town and more so than any other player I can think of - and I don't think it's a close call. I'm rather surprised that he's not doing it this game, but that's unrelated to me read on him. He's town because he's not faking reads, he's dedicating time, he seems to care and his reads are very much in accordance with mine.

6) Obviously. If I thought you were locked into a scum read I wouldn't be spending time responding to your posts and attempt to meet your wishes.

7) I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that being very very late? Anyway, I didn't want to figure out exactly what I misunderstood, but I think I swapped TD and Cabd and one point, which caused the confusion. If you absolutely insist, I'll try to find it for you, but I do think it's a waste of time.

8) His most recent post that wasn't "town rage" happened subsequent to the post in which you claimed that he possessed "independent thought".

9) Alright, but I thought you had him as "obv town". Again, I may be thinking that you said something about TP which was really about Cabd, and vice versa.

10) Alright, I can see that this is really bothering you. Here is how I remember it, but I might mix up details because I really didn't consider it that important. I was talking to f about reads on gchat. I read both of TP and Cabd as scum. I read a post in which you said one or both of them was obv town and I asked you about one of them. When I asked you about your reasoning for thinking that person was town, I thought we were talking about the other person, so when I went to ISO the person I was actually ISO'ing the other person. This should all be confirmable if you reread. It's better that you do it yourself because a) I don't want to and b) if I'm doing it, you're just going to think I selectively quote certain posts or something similar.

11) It's np. No, I don't think you'd do that even if you were scum. I was just annoyed with you and I have a big ego.

- b

[²]

I also don't understand why ffery stopped posting. Taking a step back? Cool. Completely vanishing before she gives out her complete read set? Bad.

I'm pretty sure she wanted to talk to me on gchat after I had read the thread prior to posting reads.

- b

[²]

Last one, slight scum-lean.
Top three, that was because you guys brought up an outside game and talked shit about it, i'd be pissed too.

This does look like a town response to that question, given the situation.

- b

[²]

@Mac it was his second post. Of all the posts related to svenskt's role claims he picked one where svenskt said Cabd sounded awkward, and pushed it further - to the effect that Cabd was trying to say "I'm town" without actually saying it. Out of everything in the thread to that point, he picked a way to subtly support the claimed miller and undermine a player talking about how scum might react to the claimed miller.

[²]

Your vote should always be founded on your own logic, if your own logic agrees with someone elses, is their logic makes you change yours, fine. But sheeping as pure sheeping IMO has always been and will always be wrong.

If I replace into a game in which the best player I know participates and that player is an innocent child (confirmed town by mod) and there is an hour left and my vote is the deciding vote between two players, should I listen to that player and follow his logic or should I arbitrarily place my vote based on my own logic from reading the 1/100th part of the game that I have time to read prior to deadline?

- b

[²]

We are a hydra. we use gchat to discuss what we're doing in the game. Mollie, buldermar means that I talked to HIM on gchat. Not you. I did a double take when I first read that, too.

- f

[²]

eta: also **** isn't even his real name and it isn't even his entire username wtf was that about

classy

- f

[²]

In case I wasn't clear enough, I'm asking player-wise.
You know. Like "who did what so he's suspicious." Kind of stuff.

Ok. Let's go.

²: If it's ok, I'm going to read ² as one person and not two separate people. Same goes for Beast. ² is scum to me because he reads TD as scum with little to no base and seems to be ignoring TD's more towny posts.
Aj The Epic: Null-Scum. I perceive AtE in #945 but that's pretty much it.
Andrius: Null, lack of posts.
BeautyAndTheBeast: Town. Reading well and catching things and no scumreads as of yet.
BROseidon: No reads as of yet.
Cabd: Null-Scum, mainly for not specifying reads in #931.
dntfkingcare: Null, lack of posts.
Ghostlin: After an ISO after Varsoon's read, scummy.
GuyInFreezer: Town. No scumreads. I like you asking questions.
jon_h61: no posts.
Mac: Town for the most part, but look at his #811, #821, and #831. Detailed analysis AJ is scummy, waits for nacho to vote, then says he's "considering" voting as well?!?!?
Metal Sonic: Null (no posts)
orcinus_theoriginal: Town. No scumreads, and acts and reads town.
RachMarie: Agree with Mac's #1010. Seems to be ignoring large portions of the game.
Sajin: Null.
Svenskt Stål: Active lurking, seemingly. Active early on but quieter now. Lingering scumreads from the claim and such.
Nachomamma8: Null. Towny early in game, but I feel a little less so about that.
TiphaineDeath: Town, scummy early in game, but did a 180
TMTOLBTWNTOF: No comment
Varsoon: Null, I'm finding it hard to read him.

P EDIT

Gif- I did not "disappear," I was reading all 42 pages and typing this read post the whole goddamn time.

good to see you posting.

TD is a player that buldermar and I aren't agreeing on atm. Something would have to change my mind before we'd vote him today.

[²]

GiF have you reached conclusions?

- f

[²]

Fery

I was wrong the first time

I will not disappoint you again

This is too cryptic for me.

- f

sorry.

too many browsers.

[²]

Your hypothetical is compelling, in almost all situations then, absolutes do tend to have a habit of biting one in the ass XD.

I only made it hypothetical to get my point across; I've encountered many situations in which I found it much better trusting someone elses read than my own. Usually it's a matter of someone knowing a player much better than I do, or me not having adequate time to establish a clear read.

- b