Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[Wisdom]

Why is mcqueen town, mollie?

[Wisdom]

I don't see that as town flailing. It looks like an act.

[Wisdom]

And your hydra partner who agrees with me is also scum?

[Wisdom]

WTF with the replacements? This is not fucking kindergarten, learn to be tolerant of others.

[Wisdom]

inb4 people want to policy lynch Majiffy because he insults

[Wisdom]

I don't see why you can't address the accusations if they are in different posts.

[Wisdom]

Moving to the next thing = my vote on D_O, or my vote on mcqueen?
If the first, D_O was hardly a big thing.
If the second, mcqueen was acting scummy enough to make me confident in voting him, while I was still unsure about D_O and unsure if I had done well that I voted him.

[Wisdom]

Is there any reason I am scum other than this? Because this is really bad.

Also, who else is scum? What are your reads?

[Wisdom]

Where did he say you're scum because you believe in your poor logic? What I remember is that he said HD is

town

because of that.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, "unintentional". Thing is, it's not the first time you do this.

[Wisdom]

Even if it was "unintentional" that time too, you did.

[Wisdom]

Happy with my mcqueen vote.

[Wisdom]

It wasn't "unintentional", I simply did not misrepresent you.

Either you're stupid like Majiffy says, or you're scum. Choose which.
I have explained why what you did was a misrep. You choose not to understand and keep saying bullshit.
I even give you the doubt that it could be unintentional and yet you still refuse to accept that you were wrong.
At this point I'm really starting to believe you're stupid, unable to read and comprehend, or both.
Or maybe just scum.

[Wisdom]

Oh HD agreed? It must be true then.

There might be some sarcasm in the above.

[Wisdom]

I don't care if you give a damn or not. The fact is you misrepped me, whether you realize it or not.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom - it's not misrepping if he didn't feel that that WAS the essence of his questions and you didn't answer them.

Acceptable, but it's another thing to accuse me of lying and arguing that's a scumtell.

[Wisdom]

RachMarie I take it it's your first game with slimer? Because I'll vote you if it isn't.

[Wisdom]

Because anyone who has played with slimer wouldn't take that quote seriously.

On another note;

@rach - hey baby I heard u getting sexy in ur scum qt ... can I cum too??

Rach does not have access to a scum qt, as it's not night yet and she just replaced in. I don't think scum would say something like that since they'd know it doesn't make sense, so after this you can be town.

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

Yeah, that's what I meant. The way mcqueen said it was like implying she was daytalking with others.

[Wisdom]

So are you gonna scumhunt now, mcqueen?

[Wisdom]

Haha, deja vu.
Gonna explain this time, mcqueen?

[Wisdom]

How about both of you (Rach and mckid) get back to scumhunting? Both of your votes are terrible.

[Wisdom]

Blah I'm really inclined to vote you again.

Anyway,
VOTE: Disturbed_One

I could maybe vote RachMarie or Mitillos depending on future posts.

[Wisdom]

My first sentence was @mckid

[Wisdom]

Are headache-inducing posts scumreads?

[Wisdom]

scumtells*

[Wisdom]

Aaand you're back to fluffposting.

[Wisdom]

Why now?

You're hardly find me not voting someone for a long time. I decided mcqueen is town so I picked my next suspect. Out of all the others, I have slight suspicions on RachMarie (mainly due to predecessor, but not only), and I agree with some of the points against Mitillos, so I brought up that I might consider voting one of them. But D_O is a better vote for now.

[Wisdom]

You'll*

[Wisdom]

Have you played on other sites besides this one Wisdom or are you an Alt?

No to both.

[Wisdom]

As long as she votes D_O, you shouldn't have any problem with that.

[Wisdom]

So your reason for voting him is "He doesn't express reads"? Do you have other reasons?

[Wisdom]

@Beast
Yeah, probably.

[Wisdom]

I don't like the speed of this wagon too much. Looks like a good chance for scum to hop on a lynch most people support.

I think it'd be better to lynch D_O and leave Rach for tomorrow or something.

[Wisdom]

And if I'm town?

[Wisdom]

Also, what is your read on Rach?

[Wisdom]

Meanwhile I got reads out there just in case either I get lynched or NKed, so ya all have some idea where to look for the scum.

I don't get why you feel the need to make such obvious statements.

[Wisdom]

Right.
Do you usually do that?

[Wisdom]

"that" refers to you making obvious statements like "Hey you guys, I gave reads so that if I die you can all find the scum and win". It goes without saying that we will do it so you saying that only looks like an attempt to appear town.

[Wisdom]

Nacho doesn't play here, wtf is the bonus about

[Wisdom]

Yeah why did you give us this meta? Did you understand what I asked you?

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom - wasn't a good part of the case on McQueen that he was faking VI? Why did him implying daytalk make him seem less scummy with that in mind.

I can't see scum saying that, dunno. Maybe I'll change my mind about him later, I am not 100% confident he's town. But not the lynch I'll push for now.

[Wisdom]

To answer your question Wisdom yes there is more besides the everyone is in the middle somewhere with no solid reads so I can call anyone I want scum, that I have on DO

1. Not only has he not updated his reads since page 8, he has moved around going for the wagon that seems most likely to go through.

2. ? 3. ?
Do you have any more reasons D_O is scum or is that all?

[Wisdom]

Beauty did you skip a page or something? HD and Prohawk also joined the wagon.

[Wisdom]

I don't know who, I know I don't like the fast accumulation.

[Wisdom]

Except I don't defend her.

[Wisdom]

I am merely pointing out that I don't like this speed wagon as it's likely scum could have benefited from the momentum and pushed it.
I am not defending Rach, in fact she seems scummy to me and I might actually vote her. But as I said, I'd prefer to lynch D_O today.

[Wisdom]

So if I wagon Rach she won't get lynched?

[Wisdom]

What is your read on Rach?

[Wisdom]

Any specific reason that you think she is town?

[Wisdom]

post 182 The infamous "lynching town" comment, which is AWFUL. Also? Defends mollie.

Why is it awful? I had a townread on tiger and I felt scum were taking advantage of the situation to excuse a town lynch and call it PL because "tiger was rude" which I completely disagreed with. Also why do you call it "infamous"? Nobody has referred to it before or called it scummy.

post 229You do realize that there is a difference between, "ok, that read as town to me" and "Why would you think that's scummy, they are always like that." Especially when the first is not in response to someone else calling it scummy, but giving a read. No one has commented on your analysis that slimer looks town. You've made a call and let the town know what you think. That's fine. If HD had started telling everyone that their reads on D_O were off - then you'd have a comparison. (And if tis happened in one of the posts that I admittedly skimmed through because you all were sying the same thing post after post, please point it out to me.)

HD had called D_O town/ defended D_O/ call it whatever you want because of meta. But at the same time found my " meta defense" of tiger/slimer/mollie to be scummy, which seemed hypocritical.

post 245Laying the groundwork for a backpedal.

No. The way HD insisted made me believe he might be actually town tunneling on me, which happens to me a lot. I expressed this thought.

post 262 The second such and such is a townie post. (And after saying numerous times that he didn't even have a town read on mollie.

And indeed I didn't, but as I have already said the way HD pushed it made me believe he's probably scum pushing two fake scumreads, and that's what I expressed.

post 286 I hate meta arguments. This is a large part of why - I'm not going to go skimming back through other games of people I'm playing with. If nothing else, I don't have that kind of time.

If you rely on a single game, you'll find more scummy-looking things than you would if you knew that they are normal for that person, and it's way more likely you'll be misled and accuse the wrong people.

post 295Why? Is mollie incapable of defending herself? Because it doesn't particularly seem like that is the case.

mollie is perfectly capable of defending herself, but I see no reason to let what I consider bullshit arguments to float around. If I have something to post, I'll post it. I am not gonna wait for mollie to come and post.

post 373 Why would HD trying to push your lynch and mollie's make mollie town, even if he is scum? Scum bus each other. Even better, if HDscum has linked you and mollie in people's minds and you come up town... mollie looks pretty good, doesn't she? Also, you were the one that linked mollie and you together, not HD.

It doesn't. That's what I felt at that moment, that HD-scum was pushing two townies. That's what I expressed. Sure he wouldn't be able to keep linking us in the long term, but that's irrelevant.

post 383 (Not a paraphrase) "It's not even like I defended anyone, I just shot down the accusations on mollie and slimer because they were bullshit - I am not sure either of them is town though."
I'm not defending them, all I did was defend them! Also, it's totally crap to claim that I'm doing things that I don't believe in, I'm just defending people that I don't know are innocent.

Only that's no defending. As I have said many times, if I read bullshit, I'll respond to it. That doesn't equal townreads on the ones the bullshit were about.

post 460 Defending does not have anything to do with the quality of the arguments that are made against a person. Defending is simply speaking up in their defense. Again, this is bad for two reasons:
A) It makes it so that the person that is being called scum does not have to answer the arguments themselves. If the argument was completely invalid, why not let mollie respond to it?
B) It makes a town player more likely to trust you, unless they are being careful. This is why scum like to do it. (And it's the answer to the above question, because it makes mollie more likely to trust you.)

I agree, defending is bad. What I did was not defending.

The rest of your accusations are "defending, defending, defending", and once again I don't consider what I did defending. So bad accusations.

I have not read your reads on others, but you're not beginning too good and I didn't like The Puck either. Gonna read now.

[Wisdom]

Yeah. Once again, here it's how it happened:

mollie accusor: mollie does x action, she's scum.
Wisdom: Not necessarily, mollie does x action as town too.

Analysis that happened:
Wisdom implies that she does not do that as scum.
Wisdom implies that she's town.
Wisdom defends her.
Wisdom is scum with her or Wisdom is scum WKing her.
Wisdom is scum, let's vote Wisdom.

Truth:
Wisdom says that mollie does x action as town too, therefore x action is not anything to go by. It does not mean she doesn't do it as scum, and it does not mean she's town or scum.
Wisdom attacked the accusation and called it bad.
Wisdom did not defend mollie.

Clear?

[Wisdom]

Huh. After a quick check back, I guess I meant infamous in my head because I can't find anyone else mentioning it. And it's awful because, at the very worst, as town you would know that people were setting up a lynch you disagreed with, by definition, if you are town, you don't know when you're lynching town. Basically, it implies knowledge that you wouldn't have unless you're scum - classic slip.

Except I had a townread on tiger and I was seeing the PL as opportunism. Therefore considered tiger town and voiced that thought. And believe me, I wouldn't slip like that if I was scum.

It wasn't the "meta" part that was scummy, it was the defending part.

My point is he defended D_O and called him town because of meta, yet he had issues when I was calling people town or null because of meta. Which meant that it was okay when he did it, but not when I did it.

But then we lose what mollie had to say on the issue. She no longer has to come up with an original reason for something that another player found scummy. Especially when you were clear that you didn't have a town read on her, why not let her answer what the player has to say? Maybe she'll slip. Maybe she'll notice something scummy about the attack that you missed. That's why I keep saying that there are two issues with it.

It's not like I prevented her from answering. She still had to come up with her own reasons - if she just copied mine it would be obvious.

Except, it's not irrelevant. You're claiming that HD was linking you to set up two mislynches, if it's impossible that he could keep up the link to achieve this, his purpose becomes void.

No, I didn't say he was setting up two mislynches. I just said he was pushing both of us so he can lynch one of us on D1. There was no talk about setting up another mislynch or any long-term goal he could have. So yeah, it is irrelavant.

Your argument has ALWAYS been clear. I'm trying to make clear to you why I completely disagree with it. If you were attacking the argument and saying that arguer was scum for the argument (which isn't how it started) then you would have a point. Does that make my viewpoint clear?

I did not argue that the accusor was scum, I argued that the argument was bad. Townies CAN and DO make bad arguments, especially on D1 with nothing to go by. And it was perfectly normal for someone who had not played with mollie (although that wasnt the case for HD) to not know what mollie does and what mollie doesn't, and since I knew that those actions were perfectly normal for mollie, I knew the argument is bad. Did it come from town or scum? I didn't know at the time. So no, I accused nobody and defended nobody. I saw a bad argument and explained that it's bad. That's all there was to it.

[Wisdom]

Oh sweet god, that damn game is finally over.

Micro 118 for anybody interested in the history between tiger and myself.

Also, for those that whined I only had one completed scum game - the game zabriel says here is my second completed scumgame.

[Wisdom]

[quote="In post 1074, mcqueen"]Anyone voting non-viable lynches for today, needs to remove their vote. It's getting annoying how people who haven't voted for half the time, come in and join a wagon that isn't happening today.

That is heavily directed at zabriel, along with a few others.
/quote]

You're not getting to decide what lynches happen and which don't. It's entirely possible that someone with 0 votes at the moment might get lynched, if the town feels like it.

[Wisdom]

@BeautyAndTheBeast
You're forgetting there might be doubles of any power/night combo. Meaning we might have two N1 doctors. Which means that Rach is not guaranteed to die if she's actually town and her protection is valuable.

[Wisdom]

Didn't you say you found her town? Why are you voting your townread?

[Wisdom]

Also zabriel is not on V/LA, he just doesn't have his laptop.

[Wisdom]

mcqueen if you are frustrated/annoyed by the game, you should replace out. There is no reason to lose a possible doctor just because you're bored with the day. The more the day lasts, the more info we can possibly get.

[Wisdom]

zabriel that was a quick change of heart; I thought that the claim had troubled you, but now you found a way to call it scummy?

[Wisdom]

@zabriel
Interesting - RachMarie has done a couple of scummy things yet those you mention are not among them. Fluff mean nothing as they can be posted by town too and the vote on slimer was not a scumtell. It was a typical reaction for someone who doesn't know how slimer acts. Although if she insisted on it, it would be. She didn't.

It makes me believe you don't actually believe she is scum.

[Wisdom]

Rach what do you think about mcqueen L-1ing you while still thinking you're town?

[Wisdom]

Can you prove she does not fluff as town?

[Wisdom]

@mod

mcqueen is voting RachMarie

[Wisdom]

So Rach can you sum up what your scum reads are at the moment?

[Wisdom]

Oh, okay.

[Wisdom]

Why is B and B scum?

[Wisdom]

Can't he just be tunneled town? I have seen Majiffy tunneling (on me) as town.
Weird that you put him as your top scumread just for that.

[Wisdom]

So what would you claim if you were scum?

[Wisdom]

There's no VT here though

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, two things. That's a pretty bad logical fallacy to say that whoever tunnels on you must be town because it's been that way in the past. The other thing is I don't see Human as tunneling on you. He's also pushing Mollie and has expressed some town reads as well.

Sure, that's not the only reason I think HD is town. His thought process had started to seem genuine and more likely to come from town. The fact he was tunneling on me and therefore he could be town was just an observation I made at the moment.
And you're wrong, he was pretty tunneled on both me and Mollie.

Hmm. Human's callout of a scumslip from Wisdom looked bad, but Wisdom's response was even worse. Human has it wrong though. If he slipped anything, it's not that he's scum with Mollie. It's that he knows Mollie is town.

Not a slip. Has been explained.

Question for any good players here:

if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?

^Why the fuck would any town aligned player ever say this???

Seriously, the only thing this does is create WIFOM around any connections between Wisdom and Mollie if one of them flips scum. There is literally zero town benefit or reason why town might say this. Wisdom absolutely has to be scum here. I think that has to make Human town though.

You're wrong. I'll tell you what the benefit is - I wanted to show him that he's wrong thinking I'm scum with mollie in case he's town, since I could also be WKing her, or show the fallacy in his thought process to the rest of the town in case he is scum. In other words, it was just a question to show that his being positive that I'm scum with mollie was wrong, since there was also this possibility.

Human vs Wisdom is ridiculously frustrating to read. I feel like one of them has to be town because I don't think they have it in them to fake this (unless Human does and Wisdom's shit is purely responsive) but both are just reeking of scum. The only thing that puts Wisdom above Human to me is the thing I bolded which I cannot at all see coming from town.

Town vs town doesn't cross your mind, huh?

Page 14:
Wisdom, you say Human "can die" because he's staying in his tunnel. What happened to the thing where the person who tunnels you is always town?

There are limits to tunneling and I get annoyed when people don't realize they're wrong after a while. Still, he's town. That was just me expressing my annoyance at that point.

Disturbed's Wisdom vote looks like a bus. He says Wisdom seems to be "the lynch of the day". It's giving up and trying not to look bad after Wisdom's scum flip. Wisdom and Disturbed are scum together. The only question left is who is their buddy. Rach? Prohawk? Meh, we have a while to figure it out. Also lol at Disturbed's "Yes Human, you didn't do it right, but now that Prohawk makes the same case it makes soooo much sense now".

Disturbed is scum, I am not. In any case, if you're confident we're both scum, you should vote Disturbed.

So. I'm confident that Wisdom is scum. I'm less confident about where my vote is and if I recall, it's on someone who is near a lynch. Let me see how close we are to deadline and all that. My second choice for a lynch is Disturbed. After that, I have to work off of associative tells once we have flips. By then, we'll have all kinds of other things to go off of. Right now, I want Wisdom and/or Disturbed lynched.

You're wrong. In both our previous games you read me wrong and this is no different. I am not scum. You should vote Disturbed.

[Wisdom]

mcqueen if anyone needs to replace out, it's you.

[Wisdom]

Given Siv replaced out, nothing about his play looks that scummy anymore. Most likely he was not able to keep up/not interested.

[Wisdom]

Interesting that you backed off HD now. You seemed pretty confident before.

[Wisdom]

Why do you think Siv couldn't have been a N1 Doc?

[Wisdom]

Because we should lynch D_O instead.

[Wisdom]

Rach
1) Vote D_O, B&B is not getting lynched.
2) Stop saying "I don't fake claim PRs" when there's nothing else to fake claim here. It doesn't help you.

[Wisdom]

She's at L-1.

[Wisdom]

You probably didn't count kmd's unvote.

[Wisdom]

Good. And now you should unvote her too so she goes at L-2. And vote D_O while you're at it.

[Wisdom]

So you still want to lynch a N1 doctor?

[Wisdom]

Dodging the question?

[Wisdom]

Then answer it ^^

[Wisdom]

The problem is, mcqueen finds her town. This means he believes her claim. This means he's fine lynching a N1 doctor.
Get it?

[Wisdom]

You dodged what I asked you though. Why do you think Siv couldn't have been a N1 doc?

[Wisdom]

Oh, nevermind, misread that.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, his general lack of participation means nothing. As I said, the fact that he replaced out means he wasn't interested or he wasn't able to catch up. Those posts you talk about also show this. They in no way indicate that he couldn't be a doc.

[Wisdom]

@Mitillos
Misreps, excessive tunneling beyond what I consider limits, which notably started after HD already was going after me, so it was easy for scum to get behind it, insistence on silly points such as "mollie is unreadable" only to withdraw from them once more people started calling bullshit on them, and generally he is the scummiest right now for me.

[Wisdom]

@B&B
Like with the slimer vote, Rach couldn't possibly expect the town to suddenly agree to form a B&B wagon. The only scum motivation I can see with it is to prove she's town because scum wouldn't do that, otherwise it's a townie action. Don't forget she unvoted D_O in order to do that, her main counterwagon.

[Wisdom]

Exactly what more defense do you expect than what she already has given? Why is it WIFOM?

[Wisdom]

The defence - why is WIFOM?

[Wisdom]

is it*

[Wisdom]

I don't see any WIFOM there.

[Wisdom]

Yup, the same one.

[Wisdom]

My brain cells are fine, I'm just determining who I will lynch after Rach flips town.

[Wisdom]

Because that's the most likely case with such fast wagons on D1. More so when half the people on it have stupid reasons they can't explain.

[Wisdom]

Yay, gz.
I was right about Jalyn

[Wisdom]

There is one acceptable NK: Wisdom

Three reasons:
1) he has twice as many posts as anybody. I can't play a strong game with all these posts. His death will help my play a ton.
2) he won't be protected by a doc. This is very important because we won't waste our NK.
3) I just don't like playing with him. For the /invitationals, he was on my don't want list.

[Wisdom]

RachMarie ( 7 ) CF Riot , BeautyAndTheBeast , Human Destroyer , ProHawk , mcqueen , Mitillos , chkflip

7 town.

[Wisdom]

Nope, zab was on D_O and kmd on me.

[Wisdom]

I have had the whole scumteam on my wagon all 3 times I have been lynched as town :p