Kingmaker II-Game Over

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Hello everyone, i'm replacing bird1111. Busy reading the thread, where I just finished reading Day 1. here's what i wrote down so far:

Suspicions
Carboardbox: mainly for his behaviour of day 1, giving up so early so he shouldn't give a reasonable defense for his actions. Later, when people say it might be a newbie mistake, he's acting like a proud player.
PJ: trying to convince everyone that he's town during his first day, when he was the king (also executing a townie, but that cannot really be blamed on him all alone. Still, Rosso believed PJ was scum when he came in, which is worth noticing. Then he again, Rosso made no sense, at all. I'm leaving this in the middle).

Worth noting:
Pablito --> Glork
MoS early showing who he trusts, which could be handy at some day.
What the hell is IGMEOY?

Which made me LOL:

Scum are 67% more likely to apologize for their inactivity.

82% of all statistics are made up.

I know it's not much, but i'm usually not that lengthy and... my head hurts

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I've Got My Eye On You.

Ah, right

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well,

readed everything now

Scratch that, i've started to skim after 2 hours of reading... I've been busy 3 hours total, just for this game. I can say Bird1111 didn't leave me with a very good replacement spot, considering his sudden switch at the start at day 2. I can seriously say that I even would suspect myself if I didn't knew I was town.

Suspicion list²:
Pablito (mainly because he's agreeing more and more with Glork, which I find a very uncomfortable way of play (not that I suspect Glork, but the play itself)
Cardboardbox (For reasons stated in my previous post)
Pooky (for his actions on early day 2, then continue to lurk to sway off suspicion again. He returned with a reasonable post, but he has to convince me just yet)

To a lesser extent:
Fritzler (For his really odd play. I don't know if he usually does so, but it annoys me quite a bit)
Phoebus (Everytime he pops up, he makes me feel he's scum, but when others reply to it and he replys back, he looks more like town to me)
PJ (His D1 play still doesn't sit me well, especially since he moreover executed Rosso over suspects he had longer in mind. Although it could've been more a pressured paranoia victem)
Lurkers

For the record: i'm not really pro for a Yosarain2 execution, but that's mainly on gut feelings. I'm leaving the decision in the hands of our King.

That's all for now. Going to take a break now. If anyone has any questions towards me, just let me know.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote=PJ]1.) What do you think of LuckayLuck?[/quote]Undecided at the moment. I'm getting the feeling when i'm reading his posts that he's also trying to look good in front of the town, although most of his posts make sense. He has yet to convince me of his townieship, but I'm not having the feeling his plain scum just yet.[quote=PJ]2.) What do you think of Glork?[/quote]I think his play is a bit off, especially during day 1. The way he presented his way as king during day 2 doesn't make me complain just yet, but i'm curious how he will act after he isn't king anymore and after he executed someone. For now, undecided.[quote=PJ]3.) What do you think of MrBuddyLee?[/quote]Although I don't like his play that much, i'm leaning towards town. I've got no real evidence for this, it's mainly a gut feeling.[quote=PJ]4.) What do you think of Zindaras?[/quote]Town for now. He hasn't made my scumdetector go wild just yet. he hasn't been overagressive and has just been calling out opinions of others.

Hope that pleases you just yet

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Apparantly, I suck at quote tags...

:: mumbles something about the " tags ::

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I know... i've been used to do otherwise on other boards

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I don't know what you were trying to link zindie, but I arrived on page

I forgot i was able to vote, so I might as well make it easier for people to read who I suspect if I vote them so they show up in the voting updates

vote: Pablito, Cardboardbox, Pooky

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Aha, OK.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Also, Kaleidoscope is very clearly town.

Elaborate? I notice you didn't say anything about bird in your first post. Also, he's voting you.

I didn't even know bird was in the game when I read through. I guess he had stopped posting from where I picked up, and didn't realize he was voting me.

I think i'm voting someone you replaced then... if that's the case, tell me who you replaced so I can unvote again. I don't think it's quite fair to vote because the player who you replaced acted scummy.

I just get the impression Kalidoscope is town from the way he's jumped in feet first. He's being very vocal when, frankly, were he scum, there would be no reason to be right now (given what Glork has said about his lynch targets). I think a scum, regardless of what they were trying to present their "image" as, would lay low at least until Glork makes a decision.

That depends. I think if you're replacing someone and the king, in this case, Glork, has not made a final decision yet, you should at least share your thoughts about it. It seems normal play for a player to do.

Also, I <3 Glork

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Ah, right

Unvote Cardboardbox/Lowell

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

The funny part is that both had criticized Glork at some point, while the “I love Glork” gang is safe.

Although it is funny, it's quite logical at the same time. If you agree with Glork's suspicions a.k.a. "love Glork", it's not likely he thinks your scum then someone who has a completly other view of it, no?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

lolliar.

Seriously though, when is day ending?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm curious to see your reasons there SV, especially after Glork hammered an assassin.

And what's with the "dead king"? Does that mean MBL was going to be crowned if he didn't die? (it seems the most logical reason).

In the meantime,

Vote: Pablito

.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Do'h, of course

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Still following everything. Although i'm not totally convinced that MoS is scum because of what Glork stated, i'm interested in MoS' comments on where's he attack on. Also curious what Dead has to say so far.

Ill try to keep up with the thread and respond occasionally, but don't expect big posting from me these days, as i'm having personaly problems at home at the moment.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

As i'm at school at the moment and readed everything so far, a short comment on what happened so far.

I'm really not convinced that MoS is scum due to his actions. The fact that he doesn't vote doesn't mean that he has suspicions. I think pushing more votes then necessary is more likely scummy then not doing it, bassicly because the king (yes, generalisation here) looks at voting updates, and scum don't have influence by not voting. I don't consider his behaviour being "under the radar" either, because he's has accussed people of scum, and accussing calls out reactions. The fact that he doesn't reply to people asking for reasoning could be considered both scummy or flawed activity, so i'm leaving that in the middle. It could be that I missed something, please correct me if I did.

About Yos: I could get into the fact that he thinks the assassins try to "frame" him (a bit), but his last couple of posts convinces me more and more that he might be scum (as for throwing with WIFOM as a defensive stance). I got to read back more about what he did during day 1 and 2 again, just to verify if my "gut" feeling leads me to the right way.

That's it for now. Back to work...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Currently only Pablito, for the reason of continues agreeing with others (mainly Glork). For the rest I really don't have any suspicions yet, but I didn't do a reread just yet.

I wouldn't mind if a lurker would get lynched if I need to make a T3 (Current lurkers are (correct me if i'm wrong, I just looked over the list and noted those who I don't seem to remember posting) CTD, Der Hammer, Mert, Nightfall, Nightson, Phoebus, Samus)

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Still here... Can't say I've seen anything I feel necessary to reply too. I'm still not convinced of the scumness of MoS. He more looks like an idle citizen then a blatant scummy person. My only vote is on Pablito and it will stay that way for now.

Oh, and if people want me to reply to stuff or give my opinion on something, i'd like it if they'll let me know so... I'll try to be active in the games I am in but sometimes i've got a hard time of keeping up in that.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

FYI: I'm not very happy that alot of people are really pusing for a MoS lynch with the information Glork provided. I

do

think his behaviour lately was very pro town and, as I said, don't sense that much scumness in the points Glork provided. I'm also thinking that people aren't voting for him for the actual points anymore, but more because of his "late" reactions lately.

I'm getting the feeling the scum were all to happy with the evidence Glork provided about MoS.

I'm still placing my bets on pablito...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]FYI: I'm not very happy that alot of people are really pusing for a MoS lynch with the information Glork provided. I

do

think his behaviour lately was very pro town and, as I said, don't sense that much scumness in the points Glork provided. [/quote]

The way he was defending Pooky yesterday dosn't bother you at all?[/quote]It doesn't raise more suspicion then those who tried to stay blank on both possible glork targets (as in, those who didn't care or didn't want neither dead). The fact that he didn't want Pooky dead and did want you dead doesn't mean he is scum. It could be that you're scum as well and those who would've rather seen you dead then Pooky are still town.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

T3:
Pablito, for his odd behaviour day 1 and continues following of Glork.
Der Hammer, lurker and possibly scum.
Phoebus, lurker and possibly scum.

So yeah, I bassicly want to get Pablito executed. I've listed the other two because I think there aren't any convincing scumplayers and rather see lurkers dead at the moment then active players.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

KaleiDoscope (Replacing Bird):

Day 2 -
- Suspicious of CDB and PJ, notes Pab/Glork connection and MoS trusting people early
- Suspicious of Pablito, CDB, and Pooky (and votes them), also somewhat suspicious of Fritz, Phoebus, and PJ (Gives reasoning)
- Undecided about LuckayLuck, thinks Glork's play is a little off, thinks MBL is town, also thinks Zindaras is town
- Unvotes CDB when Lowell replaces him
Day 3 -
- Votes Pablito
- Not convinced that MoS is scum yet, interested in MoS's replies
- Suspicious of Yos
- Not happy about MoS bandwagon
- Top 3: Pablito, Der Hammer, Phoebus

Result: I'm not seeing Kscope as particularly town or scum right now (OMG he placed him in his neutral category, scumbuddies LOLOLOL!). He has come a long way from Bird's behavior, but I would like to know what he thinks of Fritzler and PJ still. He named them on his suspicions list yesterday but hasn't touched them since, contenting with ONLY a Pablito vote until asked to give 3 suspects.

OMG HE'S ONTO ME >___>

I'm not quite convinced of their townness of both of them. PJ hasn't made a move today that made me convinced that he is scum just yet. I found his day 1 behaviour very unpleasant, as I noted, but further play of him doesn't made me convinced that he's the right play for today. This doesn't mean i'm not suspecting him anymore though, just less.

I can't really say anything about Fritz... I find his behaviour odd but I heard he usually plays this way. I can say I've got a tough read on him, but his actions haven't shown obvious "I wan't to lead the town the wrong way". I guess Fritz is just being Fritz... =/

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I think dead should pull the hammer now.. on pablito

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Can't say I'm all too happy with our kings performances so far.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Can we get a prod on Dead?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Still here. Dead should hammer someone.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Vote: Rikku

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

It's already happening.

FoS: Brian

for stalling

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Just saying I´m still here... Don´t expect much more posting from me soon...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I was already on my way...

Vote: Smashy

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I've actually been lurking last day, because it didn't interest me anymore... The day was dragging because of King Scum, so king scum needs to die now.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Smashy is first... Oh, and I still need to

vote: Fritzler

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Scared yet?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

MOS: Hammer possibility
Vitiman R: Don't hammer
SV: Hammer possibility
Smashy: Hammer him

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I wasn't satisfied with the way Phoebus was posting... when he went into lurking I actually forgot about him. However, when VitaminR replaced him, I'm getting pro-town vibes from him. Over the others, I wouldn't like to see him dead.

MoS and SV are people that I could live with being lynched. Both have acted scummy over the past days. They aren't the main people I would hammer if I had the chance, but I can see the reasons of others on why they would want either of them hammered.

So yeah, out of those 4 people, I'd like to see Smashy hammered, with SV and MoS as runner ups.

I hope that answers your question

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

To respond to your suspicion: I've voted pooky because it was almost the end of the day and there were two prime suspects at that moment (IIRC) and Glork was about to "Glork" someone. I choose the person I would rather see dead at that point: the one who advocated a quick hammer on my previous alignment card which I know to be town.

- "I would vote myself if I didn't know I was town"
Thought this was a scummy thing to say.

This was also a logical thing to say, considering bird lurked whole day one and suddenly popped up after the night... It would seem like scum could've prodded him to post more. Even I would've gone suspicious about it if I was around at that time already.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You should've noted that was bird saying that... 'cause I can't explain birds actions, only those from myself -_-''

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Still here. Hammer BM

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

No. You replaced Rikku. His kingship + behaviour reek scum. This has nothing to do with other games. If you read back, you'll notice I wanted rikku dead before you entered this game.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

ô_0

Ok, didn't really expect zindie to be king, but hey, we'll see how truthfull he can rule his sovereign

Vote: Mnowax, Vote: Fritzler

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Sorry for the lurking. Still here, supporting a Mnowax lynch. Also happy with a Fritz lynch.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Kscope: My suspicions of him were mostly based on the actions of Mert. Kscope himself hasn't done much to rattle my scumdar

Who's Mert?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yes. Have you been paying attention yesterday? I was taunting to kill Rikku, who is now Mnowax

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Hammer Fritz or Mnowax, now.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

FoS: Zindie

Hammer anyone, preferably Fritz

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Zindie is pulling a Rikku.

Vote: Zindie

Hammer someone.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, executions make discussion points. Besides, kings should be the ones waving with their scepters and should stir up discussion against the people he/she suspects. I'm not seeing the king do that at the moment.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, you're not going to lynch someone for information, you're going to lynch someone because you think they are scum. I don't think someone is more lynchworthy because they may or may not connected themselves to other players.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Why are you completely ignoring the point?

Because I'm selfish that way?

Seriously though, I find lynching someone over someone else because of the information we get because of it a bad idea. In all cases, this would prevent lynches of players who do not post very frequently, while the chance of someone being scum is equal against that of someone else.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Nobody said lynch

only

for information. I don't understand why you seem to think that how much information is derived from a lynch should not be part of the consideration. As I said, it's not the only factor, but it's not an invalid one, either.

I don't think it should be the deciding factor about whether or not you lynch X above Y.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

If there is more evidence against Y, but X gives more leads towards other players if turning up scum, then I still think it's a bad idea.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]If there is more evidence against Y, but X gives more leads towards other players if turning up scum, then I still think it's a bad idea.[/quote]If there is approximately the same evidence against Y and X, but X gives more leads towards finding scum in the future, which would you prefer to execute first?[/quote]I think that the chance that the evidence against X and Y would be almost the same is nihil, so the comparisation is really irrelevant there.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Aye Zindie, I owe you one now

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, Mnowax is obvious scum though... don't know about Yos.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

6.) Post 2276 by K-Scope shows another person inexplicably preferring Fritzler over SV. Further noted in post [2294], when Fritzler was taken off the list, K-Scope switches to "hammer someone" without giving a preference. Explain.

Ehm, without Fritz on the list, there was only SV on the list, so there's no real reason to give a preference then, eh? I'm still positive in hammering both Mnowax and Fritz. I still rather see Mnowax then Fritz dead though, but as our king yesterday didn't had Mnowax on his list, I promoted a Fritz hammer.

And yes, I just asked to hammer "someone" yesterday, because I was really getting impatient again, especially after we experienced how a day like Rikku's kingship had can kill a game.

Before I forget again:

Vote: Mnowax Vote: Fritzler

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, you may all find me scummy now. Just wait 'till Fritzscum and Mnowaxscum are dead.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You've got to be kidding me... Like my time is unlimited...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Is there a way to search the thread by poster?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yosarian2

D1
- Early vote on MoS for saying he won't vote people. I agree with this
- Follow FoS on pabs for licking in towards Glork.
- Vote for Phoebus, preferation above pabs, bird and CDB. Saying he doesn't have strong scumfeelings towards anyone right now.
- There's no word heard about Rosso from Yos. I don't know if he just missed it or he just lurked there, but I'm going to assume he was not around at that point.

So far: Neutral. It's the usual D1 play

D2
- The first part of D2 is lost and since I was not around, I don't know what happened back then.
- Vote for Twomz
- Discussion with Glork after Glork attacked him. Reasons were mainly about giving preferations about the LoE yesterday, where Yos prefered phoebus, but not eleborated a little more on this. Although it is a little odd not do eleborate more on it, it does not strike me as a scumtell immediatly.
- Vote for Pabs for Glork licking.
- FoS for Phoebus for bandwagonning. This is the second time he states his suspicions towards Phoebus, but it doesn't turn anything near a vote. Scumbuddy?
- Discussion with Pabs and Bird. The problem is I can't reread about the part that has been deleted during the early D2, but he's continuely stating his defense for Bird. I'm buying it because I think enough people would knew if he would lie.
- Says he thinks Pabs is likely town, after he previously find him scummy. Scummy
- guesses he thinks PJ is town. Reasons seem a bit odd. Read below

After that, it gets harder. If I had to guess, I'd guess PJ was town based on his actions and the style of his posts; it doesn’t seem to me that scum would act the way he did at the end of the day on day one, but that's a very WIFOM argument and I'm not putting a lot of faith in it, especially as he did end up killing a townie and giving us next to no information from day 1 in the process.

- This post is very confusing to me:

..boy, this is rather embarassing. I had forgotten most of the details about this game in the 10 days the site was down, and when I did a re-read to answer Glork's question, I seem to have come to a completly different opinion then what I had thought before the crash, and I didn't re-read my own posts so I didn't even notice. I just went back to see who I was voting for, and it turns out I'm voting for one of the people I just said I thought was innocent.

unvote:pablito

I'm most suspicious of Twomz and Phoebus at this point.

- Defense against Zindaras. Doesn't ring a scumbell.
- States his suspicions towards Glork for not doing his homework assignment.
- Discussion with Phoebus. I think his posts here were actually quite good.
- States Pooky as neutral.

So Far: He had to catch alot of flack today, and I must admit that i've picked up several scumvibes from him, but also some good ones. Currently leaning towards slightly scummy, especially since he stated Pooky neutral.

D3
- Vote for Phoebus and Samus
- Says he could believe Glork bussing Pooky. This sounds odd, especially since it would be noted if Glork lived long after he would've bussed a partner. I don't think that people wouldn't suspect him if he lived until this day.
- Defense against Glork for his votes on Phoebus and Twomz. He stick to stone to it, which seems normal to me if you vote someone. Nothing alarming here.
- Vote for MoS for defending Pooky.
- Eleboration on his votes, on request. Phoebus: contentless lurkerscum. Twomz: birdwagon. MoS: Defense Pooky
- Pushing for Phoebus hammer.
- Defense against RafK.
- States he prefers a LL execution above SV.
- Supports DoS execution

So far: My sense of scum towards his increased dramaticly. His vote against MoS while not being a fan of a Pooky execution himself at that point, suspicions towards Glork bussing, prefering LL (town) above SV (scum) all don't strike me as positive. My guts say he's scum now, but I'll see where it ends up after I totally readed the thread.

D4: Kingship of Yos
- LoE: Mos, Vitty, SV, Smashy
- Asks everyone for comments on people on list above
- Adds Mnowax to list
- Eleboration on LoE: MoS (not so scummy anymore), SV (because other people...), Vitty (rep. Phoebus), Smashy (because Rikku was a bad king yesterday), Mnowax (defense Pooky). Seriously, I find this post alarmingly scummy.
- says he's leaning towards Mnowax lynch, although he states before that he always finds Mnowax scummy.
- says he's sharing thoughts with PJ.
- Hammer Mnowax

so far: still leaning towards scum. His Kingship didn't really give me any good vibes. He was trying to go with the flow of the rest of the town is the impression I got, but this could be good or bad either way.

D5
- Defense against RafK. Nothing suspicious IMO
- Lowell follows Rafk, so Yos rereads Lowell and then votes him. OMGUS?
- Supports both Fritz and Vitty execution.

So far: not so much more alarming on D5. My suspicions has decreased a little, but not much. My guts still think he is scum.

Overall: Leaning towards scum

I'll do PJ later.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Alright. I suppose that makes a bit sense then. The fact that a part was deleted is a bit frustrating though, as it involved alot pookyscum activities.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Lol, you're so scum.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Errrr... I'll try to complete my analysis before the deadline... if I have the time to do so.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Ugh... I still need to do my PJ analysis, but he, just as Yos, are just so damn large posters... Hate them and love them at the same time...

I'll hope I'll manage to take some time for it, probably monday.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Petroleumjelly

Day 1:

- Votes MrBuddylee (act scummy so he doesn't get NK'd), Vaughn (random voting/buddyglork) and Bird1111 (protecting Glork). Casts suspicion on Pabs (proglork)
- Unvotes MBL after defense of him, then votes CBB
- Unvotes CBB for "giving up", unvotes Vaughn for misinterpetation
- FoSes Glork for trying to make PJ care to much about the original game (??)
- Votes Phoebus for joining the big bandwagons
- States he has town feelings against Mos/Yos2. Also against Pabs.
- LOE: Bird, Phoebus, CDB (under the radar), Pabs (only because there are 8 votes on him)
- States preferation about Bird/Phoebus execution.
- Rosso suddenly pops up in the "suspicious" list for no specific reason given by PJ, later states the reason "attacking him for PJ being PJ"
- PJ executes Rosso.

Thoughts so far: I'm really not happy with his sudden switch on thoughts. He stated only once what he found suspicious about Rosso and he immediatly executed him. Bad play or scum... leaning to scum atm.

Day 2

- Deleted stuff. Unable to read that part.
- Votes Pooky for "continues sarcastic remarks" and twomz attack.
- Revotes Bird, Votes Ubertimmy for lurking
- States Bird suspicions in a weird way. It almost seems like he's trying to back off.
- Defense against MBL
- Flashbacks alot towards the original game
- Thoughts on LOE: No: MBL, Mert, Yos2. Maybe: Pooky
- Votes SV. Reasons are quite unclear to me (gut).
- Defense against CTD.

Thoughts so far: I find it

very

convenient PJ suspected SV on gut, just when he turned up scum later. I don't like this at all. Overall play of the rest of the day seems ok. Still leaning towards scum.

Day 3

- Votes SV.
- Votes Phoebus, same reason as before. Votes Samus for Twomz's "pushing for LoE"
- Unvotes Samus after Glorks defense for Samus.
- Analysis of Pooky. Conclusion: Pabs and MBL town.
- Mixed feelings on Glork.
- Votes Der Hammer for lurking.
- Votes LL for weak voting, buddying up with Glork.
- FoS MoS for weak logic
- Votes Rikku. Reason seems obvious
- Unvotes LL for good vibes.

Thoughts so far: So far, PJ has bassicly casted suspicion on anyone who has been trying to "buddy up" with Glork, which I find pretty remarkable. I'm still leaning towards scum, only slightly less.

Day 4

- Thoughts on LoE: No: MoS. Yes: VitaminR, SV. Neutral: Smashy
- Reads MoS: still leaning towards town.
- Reads VitaminR: Decent execution
- Reads Spectrumvoid: Scummy
- Reads Battle Mage: Could be scum.
- Reads Mnowax: Decent execution.

Thoughts so far: I'm getting better vibes now. He finally explains a little better on his SV thoughts, and his analysis are ok, although I think alot of them come out as "could be executed". Currently neutral with slight scumfeelings.

Day 5

- Votes SV, Mnowax, VitaminR
- Reads Zindaras: probably town.
- Discussion with Vitty because of analysis on him

Thoughts so far: short day, same feelings: Neutral.

Day 6

- Comes up with the reading idea.
- Reads Thesp: probably town.
- Reads Lowell: probably town.
- Wait.... that's it? I'm done? Yarrrr!!!

Thoughts in general: I've had and still have mixed feelings about PJ. PJ has been on SV in a weird way whole game. I'm still torn if it was luck or bussing. All in all, I don't think he would be the play today (not that he's capable of getting hammered )

Soo.... if I had to choose between Yos2 and PJ, Yos2 would die.

That's all, Kthxbai

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

When is the deadline?

Also, I'd really like it if you, PJ, eleborated on your choices by now. We're really left in the dark so far.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

PJ, if you got the time for it, could you eleborate a little more of your sudden hunch on SV. Because, for me, it quite looked you pulled it out of thin air with reason 'gut'.

Also, a more eleborated thoughts on LoE would be nice, PJ.

FYI: I'm still preffering a Fritz execution. Mnowax and Yos2 are good executions as well.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Deadline is today, PJ. Who's getting the hammer?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Interesting how you leave Mnowax out of that list. I'm quite dissappointed with the kingmakers choice at this stage of the game.

Vote: Fritzler, Mnowax, Yosarian2, petroleumjelly

I've added PJ because of his horrible performance yesterday, even though he claims he truelly hated to be king yesterday.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Interesting how you leave Mnowax out of that list. I'm quite dissappointed with the kingmakers choice at this stage of the game.

Vote: Fritzler, Mnowax, Yosarian2, petroleumjelly

I've added PJ because of his horrible performance yesterday, even though he claims he truelly hated to be king yesterday.[/quote]

Interesting list there. Care to give reasons for any those choices?

You too, Fritzer. Especally you, as you seem to be near the top of almost everyone's list right now, including mine. Why TS, exactally?[/quote]I think I've eleborated quite alot on these people already, but I might as well do it again:

Mnowax is on the list mainly for Rikku's horrible performance, as well as his lack in bassicly anything this game is terribly scummy in my eyes. Fritz is on the list for being Fritz, and because he has yet to contribute anything positive in my eyes. You and PJ are on the list because of my rereads, and because of your kingships.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I've stated numerous reasons on why I'm not comfortable with your play so far. Your neutral stance on Pooky, preferation of a LL lynch (townie) over a SV lynch (scum), your attack on MoS for defending Pooky while being an anti-pooky-lynch yourself. And yes, your kingship was really horrible. Your reasons for the players in the list were very scummy (MoS was on the list, but wasn't so scummy to you anymore, but people still suspected him, so you left him on. SV because of other people [very convenient to mention him but avoid him at the same time]. The rest of the list was OK, although not really solid IMO).

As for PJ: He continues to use the tactic "last-second-hammer", which allows him to switch his opinion during the last minute so everything turns out the wrong way. Rosso was hammered because of a last thought change. Vitty died, when PJ very little eleborated on his thoughts on his LoE. He could've picked anyone to his liking. Both have turned up town. Also, his sudden 'connection' with SV is something that doesn't sit comfortable with me as well.

So no, it's not only the kingship, it is more.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

So you're saying you were bassicly going with the flow, correct?

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You fail to convince me. If there was one person on your list you were not really suspicious of, it was SV. And now you're claiming you were right? I find that a bit hypocrit, to be honest. Also, focusing on 5 players only is a good scumtactic: if the majority of the people on that list is town, the chances are low people prefer the scum one. So I'm not really buying that either.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I was right in demanding everyone give info on everyone on that list, even the ones I wasn't suspicious of, yes. SV is actually the perfect example; I was not suspicious of her personally, but there had been a lot of attention on her, and so I wanted everyone to comment on her because I thought that info would be useful once we did find out her alignment. And yes, that stratagy turned out to be a good one.

You make it sound that you were the one executing her. The way I see it is that avoiding SV was no longer possible, as alot of people were alread onto her. It's more a logical step to do then an actual good strategy as you speak about it.

Did you actually read that day? I started out trying to get people to comment more generally, and everyone freaking lurked. Almost no one was willing to contribute UNTIL I posted my LOE and demanded that people comment on those specific people. If I hadn't "focused on 5 people", nothing would have freaking happened at all.

I checked, and people didn't lurk. There were enough people posting. You were actually one of the people that should have been posting more, while you didn't. If you mean that

certain

people are lurking, you are correct, but saying everyone is lurking is far from reality.

FoS: Yosarian2

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

There were 17 people alive at the time. From the point when I became king on march 13'th, until the point when I announced my LOE on march 21'st, we has useful relevent content from, what, 5 or 6 people? After a day when nothing at all had happened, I did NOT consider that "enough people posting", Kalei. Now stop being annoying.

Oh, so now i'm annoying!

I'm sorry I proved our king to be wrong. Difficult eh?, when your web of lies start to break down?

Seriously though, I'd consider 5-6 relevant content in 7 days normal. Especially if you categorize the votes as not relevant, while they in fact are the primary line of catching the scum.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You consider it ok if only a third of the town is actually participating? After no one had really contributed anything in the past month when we'd had the last king?

There will always be lurkers and always be active players. I don't see that to change quickly, even if you push for it. If people refuse to participate, it's a task for the MOD. Besides, lurkers leave tracks as well. I consider Fritz's Semi-lurk a typical scumtactic.

And you really can't compare the last month with any other kingship. There was Thespival and Vacation time for alot of players. Although it's not good for the game, it's normal stuff. It's the month of July baby

And, other then Fritzers silly "vote everyone" votes, I was considering the votes to be content.

Alright then.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

In a normal game, this seems quite normal, as you seem to forget there is always a crapload of spam between the good points. Also, people have different opinions about whether something is useful or not, so I'm leaving that in the middle.

The whole point is though, that Yos2 claimed that that everyone was lurking while it wasn't. Even if there were only 5-6 useful things, it's nothing near a classic lurkinggame.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yos2 asked me for my reasons of the players of my list. I eleborated on them. Yos2 can give me numerous reasons on why my thoughts might be wrong, but I'm not going to let go my gut, as I know from my past experiences my guts are good. I think it is likely that in my list, at least one of them is scum, if not two.

You may say that my points might be reaching, and you may be right as well, as I'm not the master in explaining my scummy feelings against someone. However, I'm not here to convince Yos2 of my suspicions. I've mainly eleborated on them. I don't think my opinion has any value this day, considering the king is one of my prime suspects.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

PJ, let me state now that your sudden gut-feeling towards SV, combined with your 2 mislynches is the reason you received my vote. I'll agree with you when you say you've been shouting whole game that Phoebus/Vitty should die, so that in essence, your last day was less scummy then the first one. However, the fact that Vitty is a townie and that your so called "gut about vitty playing like in space monkeys" can be thrown towards the bin directly. Oh, and PJ, FYI:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 477#477477
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 940#479940

Those were the posts that let my scumdar go off. You attack him for following you (at least, that is what I

think

, because I can't really figure out your further reasons), which I find a very weak reason to vote with, which later switches to gut. I find this a very convienent thing to do, as it might come in handy if he turned up dead scum that you were onto him as well.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

In post 860 I was commenting on Glork's list, and found that I couldn't recall very much about either spectrumvoid or Mert at the time. After the "view all posts" function returned, I made Post 948, which you have linked to. I feel like I've explained this a billion times - I couldn't think of why a townsperson would throw in a comment like "I really need to start learning from PJ" - it's so blatantly fawning that I am confident she did it simply to flatter me so I wouldn't consider executing her D1. People didn't seem to

understand

this reasoning, so in frustration I used the explanation of "gut" because that's what seemingly half the town was using to describe their suspicions at the time, and I don't see why everybody else should be able to use that as a divining rod for suspicion and not myself. Reading my posts in context ought to make the wording of those posts clearer, instead of in isolation.

Thanks for the eleboration, although I'm still not buying this load of bull.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Way to post nothing, Cavane. :rolleyes:

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Ts' was more clear then yours. You took the spiritual path, I suppose

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Which will give us more information if either one of them turns up scum.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Amazingly, I agree with Thesp. Hence I pointed it out.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Interesting how alot of people are witholding themselves from voting, like people are scared to speak it out formally.

Also, still in favour of a Fritz lynch

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

the PJ+Yos2 scumpair gets more obvious by the minute. Let's hammer them.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Heh...I agree with PJ, so therefore I'm scum with him?

Agreeing with someone is a scumtell. I think you and PJ are both scummy, and the way you two continuesly agree with each other confirm my suspicions by the minute.

DOes that mean you and RAfK are scum together?

I'm not scum. I don't know about RafK, but I'd say no to him as well.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Nice to hear I made your day then

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I already got 4 scumplayers... I think it's unlikely there are more then 4, if there even are 4.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Does insane count?

Seriously though, if you the only thing you could say about PJ's analysis is "I agree with most of it", you're doing your job just as bad as Cavane's "not taking a stance" post.

The third paragraph is WIFOM.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]
Seriously though, if you the only thing you could say about PJ's analysis is "I agree with most of it", you're doing your job just as bad as Cavane's "not taking a stance" post.[/quote]

But that's not the only thing I said about PJ's analysis.[/quote]You only eleborated a

little

after PJ

asked

you too. That's quite the same.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]You only eleborated a

little

after PJ

asked

you too. That's quite the same.[/quote]

So...how does that make me scum with PJ? Connect the dots for me here.[/quote]Oh, it doesn't necessarilly make you scum together, but from my point of view, it is likely. I'm not planning to convince you of a scumpair of yourself and PJ, because that's a waste of time. I do think, however, that other people should be aware of your and PJ's scumplay so far. I don't think I need to repeat myself on why I think you and PJ are scummy right? I can tell you thought, that If I'm becoming king, one of you is going down, most likely you.

With that being said, when are you planning to actually do your job as king? IIRC, you said this was going to be a short day, but I've yet to hear any direct suspicions on your LoE. Yes, you've been busy defending yourself against me, but as town, you should be busy to hunt down the assassins, but the last part certainly lacks in your play so far. Not that I expected different from a scumking...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yos asked for eleboration, so I gave it to him. I don't think further eleboration is useful now, since the current king won't listen to it anyway.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

And what if you die tonight, Kscope? Do you not feel that Yos2 is scum strongly enough to tell us why, on the offchance that you turn up dead? Your death would not condemn Yos2, because if you didn't give us any reasoning, scum could kill you to set him up. I'd rather you explain yourself now, than give scum a chance to fuck us over.

I've made an analysis of PJ and Yos2 in where I think they are scummy. In my future posts, I've further eleborated on this. So no, there's no rush.

And to be honest, I don't think I would die the upcoming night, since there are about 2 people the majority of the people think they are town. I'm not going to name those, as I would be suggesting the assassins then, but I honestly don't think i would get murdered.

I'm more worried of the possibility of a scum KScope talking up his anti-Yosness to become king when Yos executes a townie than a town KScope being "silenced" before he can make his case on Yos tbh.

On that note: what do you think of Yos2?

KScope is refusing to explain himself on the grounds that it won't convince the current king, but the king isn't the only one that matters.

I'm not refusing, I simply have other priority's. I'm not going to waste an hour of my time when it has no use yet. There's plenty of time tomorrow to do so.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm amused by the fact that Yos2 keeps confirming himself to me as scum. This time he simply ignored the part where RafK asked why you didn't eleborate any further on your "half-players of the game" LoE. Seriously, start doing your job. You're making yourself look terrible for the small amount who is actually buying into your act.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Lol, do that. I hope it actually puts yourself to same action.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Besides, Yos2, I have been longer on you then today. You might have noticed that if you readed the thread.

And yes, I wouldn't waste an opportunity to take notes of people I think are scummy.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Of course you have. However, your posts today have been especally scummy and illogical, and I'm having more and more trouble seeing you as town. Your entire goal here seems to just be to annoy and frustrate me, to undermine me and make me look bad so your scum team can get me executed later, and you seem uninterested in actually helping me to find scum today or to do anything useful. You also seem to not be taking my suspicion of your seriously, which I suggest is a GRAVE error on your part.

Helping you to find scum? I've immediatly stated whom I have found suspicious. I have eleborated on it when you asked. We actually had to pull out of you who you actually found suspicious, and still you haven't eleborated on your LoE yet. You continuesly seem to want to avoid it without giving reasons for it. It suprises me you actually consider your posts so far to be kingworthy, while they actually contain really nothing concerning the upcoming execution.

So yeah, I'm frustrating you, I admit. That's because, to me you seem, you're actually clueless on what to do. It's something I find terribly scummy.

Let me put it this way. In your next post, you need to do the following exercise. Assume for the moment that I am pro-town, and attempt to convince me using evidence from the thread either that you are pro-town or that there is someone else who is a better execution then you are today, using some kind of actual logical argument. If you fail to do this within the next, say, 48 hours or so, expect consequences. Possibly irrevrocable ones. Let's just say you're playing russian roulatte with your life here.

Now don't start to turn the tables. You state to me directly how I am an assassin and I will respond to it in how I'm not. You promised me a reread on me, now give it. The way I see it now is that you have rereaded the thread, couldn't find anything to execute me on, and you're trying to find an alternate route to make me look suspicious.

You just convinced me once more of your scummyness, congrats.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You should shoot yourself, obviously. I've stated numerous times on the why. I also think PJ, Mnowax and Fritz are hammerworthy persons. I've stated the why on PJ. There's simply not much more to say then a oneliner about Fritz because it's Fritz. I could eleborate the why on Mnowax if you'd like.

But FYI, I'm not going to convince someone on the why you should not execute me. A large part of self-analysis on the "why not" would turn out to be WIFOM and be baised. You're not going to reread someone to see if they're town, but to see if they're scum.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Oh, but I'm not refusing to defend myself, there's simply nothing to defend against. If you think I'm scum, make your case against me and I will properly respond to the accusations, which either confirms your suspicions or confirms the opposite . Instead, you are asking me to defend myself against thin air. The only reason to me on why you would ask that is to make me build something which involves more baised and WIFOM arguments, just to create reasons to execute me on that. If you're already planning on executing me, quit this act and just pull the hammer, because I'm not planning on playing the puppet.

The case against Mnowax will come later.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Mnowax (Dead Rikku/Smashy/Battle Mage)

Day 1
- He mostly lurks, saying he's coming back asap.
- Reacts only to Glork/Pabs pairing. Thinks Pabs is suspicious by his trust for Glork.

Day 2
- Lurks some more
- He responds on Glork's LoE. He prefers Pooky over a Yos2 execution. To me, this says really nothing and it looks more like driving the safe route.

Day 3
- He becomes king.
- Some more lurking
- He asks everyone to post their T3 suspects.
- He asks lurkers to be prodded.
- He continues to focus to get the lurkers talking. Pretty OMGUS to me.
- Again, focus on lurkers
- Excuses for his lurking .
- States he is against an all-player analysis. Reason is the nightkill.
- States he will post his suspicions after everyone posted his T3. Rolling the safe route again.
- Defense against Olio
- Lurks some more
- Posts an all-player analysis, something he stated he was clearly against earlier this day. Even though the analysis doesn't involve opinions, it's pretty OMGUS to me.
- Lurks some more
<--------- Rikku gets replaced here, by Smashy -------------->
- Posts opinions about everyone after a reread. States he think SV is not so scummy.
- Majority of the players wants either LL or SV dead. He goes for the townie over scum.

Day 4
<--------- Smashy gets replaced by Battle Mage -------------->
- Starts to read. States he finds Ubbertimmy ubberscummy
- States he disagrees with alot of smashy's suspicions. Safe route again.
- Stating he doesn't find SV particullary scummy.
- States he likes a Mos over an Mnowax execution
- Asks for replacery

Day 5
<--------- Battle Mage gets replaced by Mnowax -------------->
- States: Fritz > Vitr > SV for execution
- 2 posts later, he states he's up for an SV. OMGUS
- votes Vitr, Fritz and Yos2. Forgot about SV already.
- Votes for MoS. Clearly not caring about anything.
- States a Yos over Scope execution.

That's it.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

An information lynch? At this point of the game? Dear god, that's a really bad argument to lynch someone for...

But to be honest, I am willing to get executed if it's going to confirm Yosscum then. I don't know if there is a chance that we are going to be outnumbered though...

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Oh, Yos, please. If you are insinuating that I was unwilling to contribute, you were wrong. I have answered questions directly asked from you before you started with your russian roulette. It was you who was lacking any sign of attempting to gather information concerning the execution. I've answered what was directed at me and have eleborated my suspicions if people would like to hear so (aside from yours and PJ, because you two getting executed today are, as you stated, nihil).

So far, you still have simply refused to eleborate on your LoE, even when asked numerous times. I'm sorry to say, but I see no reason for a townie not to do so.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I said I was suspicious of you and asked you to either defend yourself or lay out a detailed case against someone else or both. I hardly think that's an unusual request, but you refused to do either of those things until after I started playing Russian Roulette. So, frankly, that's BS.

You didn't ask me to defend myself, you asked me to convince you of me being town. That's quite a difference. Second, you didn't state to make a case against someone else after you played your russian roulette show. Thirdly: I still stand by the fact that I can't defend myself against thin air. I've asked you to make your case against me so I can respond to it properly. You refused to do so. My reply had nothing to do with not cooperating. Your request was just absurd.

And, excuses for not noticing your eleboration on the LoE. I honestly missed that because it was not immediatly directed to me.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Lie #2 here. I have given some reasons why I thought you were suspicious, and you simply ignored them. For example, here was one of the problems I have with you here.

I asked you direct quotes on facts you disagreed with so I could reply to them. You didn't.

By the end of that, you had more or less admitted that your entire argument, that me and PJ were scum together because I had agreed with him, was craplogic and that it basically didn't prove anything at all. You even say that you weren't trying to prove anything today, you just "wanted to make other people aware of your and PJ's scumplay so far". I think you knowingly used craplogic here, and that you didn't care that you were, because you weren't trying to find scum, you were trying to make me look bad and to prepare an excuse for killing me and/or PJ in advance in case you ever did become king. Your play all feels more like a scum trying to manipulate and push the town then it feels like a townie who's honestly trying to find scum here. Over and over again, you just keep repeating "Yos is scum" "PJ is scum", no matter what the context is or how little sense it makes, and that's not a pro-town way to act.

Oh, I won't deny that I've been pushing it with barely nothing. I will admit that I was purposely was trying to annoy you to let you make a slip-up to either confirm it for me that you're scum, or confirm me that you are not. I was actually hoping you would convince me of your towness by your reactions, because frankly, at that point I was still more suspicious of Fritz and Mnowax then of you and PJ, but the fact you and PJ are the more vocal ones, I went after you two, hoping to get confirmation for myself. Both failed so far at that point, so yeah, I'm stubborn on that. I'm now starting to feel slightly better of you, but I still think a scumpair of you and PJ is likely if either of you would come up scum at any point.

What? "Absurd"? It was the simplest and most basic and rational request I possible could make, I thought.

If someone is about to be lynched in a normal game, they need to either convince the town that they are more likely to be pro-town/less likely to be scum then is generally thought, or they need to convince the town that someone else is a better lynch target then they are that day. That was all I was asking you to do, was to either convince me you were less scummy then I thought, or convince me someone else was scummier then you, because unless something happened to convince me of one of those two things I was going to lynch you, and I wanted to give you a chance to say your peace first. The "assume I'm pro-town" thing was just because we clearly weren't going to get anywhere if you just kept saying pointless things like "you should execute X beceause he's your scumbuddy".

Very well. I'd still like you to make an analysis of me where you explain your in-debth thoughts about me being scum. Not only for me, but so everyone can hear what you think about it.

Right. You're apparently not even reading my posts at all anymore. I'm not sure if it's because you've stupidly just decided I was scum beyond the shadow of a doubt, or because you're a scum who's decided that it's easier to get me lynched then to manipulate me and so dosn't care what I think anymore. I'm leaning towards the second possibility at the moment.

I stopped reading after you said I should defend myself, while I had barely anything to defend myself against. I wanted to reply as soon as possible, so yeah, you are correct that I didn't read it totally, but that's not because I don't care what you have to say.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

The difference is that I was going for the impulsive "more saying" reactions then the standard reaction, which I think were RafK's post intentions. Your russian roulette is a result of it. I'm convinced that the standard reactions say much less then ones made under special circumstances.

You now claim you were just pushing me to get a reaction, but that also dosn't fit with your play; if you were pushing me to get a reaction, I would expect you to be reading over all of my posts very carefully, while you've admitted you were not doing that.

I've admitted that I skip stuff when I'm to eager to reply to something, and then forget to read the rest of it. I'm chaotic that way . Doesn't change the fact that things posted cannot be reviewed, which I did.

With that being said, I think the focus is really to much one sided now. I've got the reactions I wanted now, so unless you are seriously considering to execute me, I suggest some input from other players now concerning the assassins. The vote count still has some empty holes of suspicions to be filled.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, asking confirmation is never wrong .

FYI: I'm not backing off, I simply think rechewing everything isn't necesarry. I think I know where you stand. You know where I stand.

For commenting on your LoE: You know who I'd like to see dead. Two of them are on your LoE.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You said you were starting to feel "slightly better" of me, and then stopped attacking me, so it does feel like you've backed off. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, pro-town people should always be willing to change their minds, but the timing of it makes me feel like you might be trying to back off for the moment just to save your own skin. So, could you elaborate at all when and why you started to feel better about me?

I worded it wrong. It's more in the way of: if I'd have the choice between a death of you or Mnowax/Fritz, those two would get the preference now. I still think you are scum though, even if it is slightly less.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yos2 should be totally hammering me right now.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Such days can be arranged

Fritz has a death wish as well. He's just in denial.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Heh... Sorry Yos2, I had fun poking you since I knew scum technicly won the game already.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

[quote="Yosarian2"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Heh... Sorry Yos2, I had fun poking you since I knew scum technicly won the game already. [/quote]

Heh...actually , after I caught you, we had one last chance to come back. It wasn't likely with that many scum, though.

Anyway, well played, PJ. You had me totally fooled.[/quote]True. There was to many scum. I also think that because I died, I gave mnowax2 an extra chance.

GG, especially PJ

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

BTW, if Skruffs read this: Might explain why you decided Rikku needed to be king. I was amazed.