Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[mcqueen]

/confirm replace.

Just pulled an all-nighter, so I'm tired as fuck, but I'll start reading.

[mcqueen]

How exactly is tiger an easy lynch?

A policy lynch is pretty much by definition an easy lynch. Why? It lynches someone for playing in an anti-town fashion, so people will agree with it. So how is

he

not pushing an easy lynch?

Sigh. Incorrect.

A PL is a lynch based on disliking an aspect of another player's playstyle, not necessarily because they are playing in an "anti-town fashion."

[mcqueen]

Well I didn't, because townies can't slip.

Technically, this is incorrect as well.

[mcqueen]

Yeah but mollie hasn't done anything scummy - while I have "slipped", which should surely be scummier. Shouldn't you vote me?

What the hell is this?

Btw, sorry for multi-posts. I hate using Q+ when I'm reading through for the first time.

[mcqueen]

MY FUCKING GOD YOU AREN'T LISTENING

I DIDN'T MAKE A CLAIM, THEREFORE I HAVE NO REASON TO GO PROVE IT FOR YOU. YOU MADE A CLAIM, SO YOU HAVE EVERY FUCKING REASON TO GO PROVE IT.

SO STOP BEING ALL SELF-RIGHTEOUS WITH YOUR "OMG ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LOOK THROUGH THE GAMES I LINKED MUST BE SCUM" BECAUSE GUESS WHAT: I DON'T REALLY FUCKING CARE.

MOLLIE HAS BEEN ACTING GODDAMN SCUMMY, AND YOU'VE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO DISINTEGRATE IT WITH BULLSHIT META TELLS THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE REAL.

THIS IS A WHOLE CROCK OF BULLSHIT BEING USED BY THE SCUMTEAM TO PAINT ME AS SCUMMY.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, I'M DONE WITH IT.

Please NK yourself.

[mcqueen]

Can't tell if the hydra-replace is a scumtell or a towntell...

Beauty, can I have a link to at least 1 Town and 1 Scum game?

[mcqueen]

wow

[mcqueen]

wow

With contributions like this, who needs a scum-team?

What are you guys contributing? Nothing. You're making pointless arguments about who thinks who was defending who.

[mcqueen]

What are you guys contributing? Nothing. You're making pointless arguments about who thinks who was defending who.

Actually read through HD's arguments and I'm 99.9% sure you will not think they are pointless.

In the case of the 0.1%, what exactly do you find pointless about it?

It's not really at all about the defending, but rather how Wisdom lies and how he reacts to the fact that he is defending players. It's scummy beyond belief.

No shit, Sherlock.

[mcqueen]

mcqueen, stop posting fluff and tell us who is scum.

VOTE: Wisdom

[mcqueen]

That's better. Now give us reasons.

Did you learn to read? If so, go back and ISO yourself.

[mcqueen]

So you don't have reasons then?

I'm taking it you can't read?

[mcqueen]

Read what? Tell me what exactly you find scummy.

lmao

[mcqueen]

Not sufficient.

VOTE: mcqueen

I like how you jump on the first person that refuses to answer your stupid little questions.

[mcqueen]

Ok. So let me get this straight.

Before Wisdom and I had our fair share of exchanged words, Wisdom was being looked at as scummy. This is true, I also found him scummy.
Why should I give my reads and any information I have regarding my role to a scumread?
Furthermore, when this scummy player tries to call me out for not providing reasons/reads to a scumread of mine, everyone follows the already-seen-as-scummy player, yet despite being on the top of a couple peoples' scumlists, only two people have voted me, and one has already changed his/her vote.

Seems legit.

[mcqueen]

Because you have to explain why you find me scummy. The fact 3-4 people found me scummy means nothing, they could easily be the whole scumteam plus one townie.

If you don't explain, you're simply sheeping.

I'm pretty sure I've already said that I've found multiple spots of scumminess in a lot of your posts.

My vote was not a sheep-vote, I just used the other players voting you to support the fact that you were found scummy, even before our little debate.

[mcqueen]

What are those spots? You need to be specific.

I'm not going to quote all of your posts, bold each spot of scumminess I see, then analyze every spot of scumminess I bolded. I have shit to do.

The fact that a lot of your posts seem like scum to me, was enough to earn my vote.

[mcqueen]

It's sad how easy it is to figure out my meta; how easy it is to tell when I'm Scum and when I'm not; how easy it is to figure out that when I'm Town, I always play a pushy and stubborn playstyle, yet when I'm Scum, I usually find a way to lay off after awhile, and instead choose to fakeclaim.

I've made stupid fakeclaims as Town, too, but never when I'm nowhere close to being lynched, or when the game is in Day 1-4. Usually if the game is still going after Day 4, and I'm still alive, I usually claim either way, Town or Scum, but it's DAY FUCKING 1.

[mcqueen]

Then I am sorry but that equals "I have no reasons for finding you scum, I just vote you because 3 other people say you're scum". Which equals sheeping.

Lmao. No it doesn't.

[mcqueen]

I'll let the others determine if it does or it doesn't.

Btw fakeclaim as town? I hope you did that to confuse scum, because otherwise it's retarded.

Yeah, I know, I've learned my lesson.

If you're smart, you'd figure that out, and that my previous post does not mean I'll fakeclaim on Day 5.

[mcqueen]

Mafia have won both games, in which this setup was used before. Why? All they have to do is get 2 mislynches in the first 3 Days, and - although it does take a small amount of luck at Night for them, to kill someone not being protected by a Doctor, and not being investigated by a Cop - just get a kill at Night, as any successful kill takes out a Town PR, and they've pretty much won.

My point - it's important for Town to lynch right, at bare minimum, once on the first 3 Days, and that lynch must come in the first 2. It's very close to being very important for Town to lynch correctly twice on the first 3 Days, but that's not very easy to do.

Just don't lynch someone who's meta is extremely clear, and screams out Town. Not that I'm asking to be given a Free Confirmed Town Card, nor am I asking to be overlooked, but if you're going to lynch me, please do it right. Do not lynch me in a position where you'll just regret it later, and my meta was right about me, and probably always will be, because it's not likely I'll change my playstyle anytime soon.

[mcqueen]

Considering you're voting town, you're already going against your wishes.

Also, cut the IIoA and start scumhunting.

I'm not voting Town.

P-Edit - *sigh*

VOTE: mcqueen

[mcqueen]

Yeah okay.
Can we lynch this?

VOTE: mcqueen

Go ahead. I dare you.

[mcqueen]

What, are you another VI who wants to prove he's right by lynching himself? I'm coming across many lately.

I'm not trying to prove I'm Town or Scum. I'm trying to prove something else. And I honestly feel the only way to do this is by lynching myself. Besides, even if I somehow live until then, I doubt we'll make it to the point where I'll get to use my role, anyway.

I'm a Night 5 Doc.

[mcqueen]

C'mon, 4 more votes pl0x.

[mcqueen]

What are you trying to prove here McQueen?

For one? That I'll always be the VI, and that will never change, and it's practically not a scumtell for me, anymore.

That I make valid points, and no one ever listens to me, because I express them horribly, I'm pushy and stubborn and always the VI, and what the hell do VIs know?

That I'm mcqueen, everything that you learn about Mafia is opposite for [reading] me.

That my meta will never change, and that's the reason I'm using it as a defense. You think if I was going to reconstruct my whole playstyle anytime soon, I'd use my meta as a defense? There's a valid point, that no one listens to/agrees with.

"mcqueen argues a lot [-unquote- and can be dumb, stubborn, and annoying -unquote-], but he makes valid points."

[mcqueen]

I also play Mafia with an internal aspect, that I can't really explain. It's sort of like gut feeling, but it's there's a lot of thought to it, a lot of the thought being, "Can I see him saying this from a Town/Scum point of view?" yet still much more detailed than that.

[mcqueen]

And I thought I had seen everything with slimer...

This is a new whole level of VIdiocy.

Can you claim? I'm getting tired of you altogether, so let's see you what think you are, yeh?

Make up the craziest role you can think of.

P-Edit - And that right there is the reason I can't see you as Town. I know it's terrible to give in to AtE, and I don't like using it and coming to this point when I play, but the way you don't give in to AtE, the way you refuse it entirely, and don't even appear to consider it, before going with the standard 'AtE is bad' thinking, is why I don't see you flipping Town.

Happy now?

[mcqueen]

Why the hell would anyone claim at this point?

Because I want you to. C'mon, there are only 3 possible roles you could have, the only variable is if you do claim Town, what Night number you have to fakeclaim, too.

[mcqueen]

Did this guy really just say Wisdom and I are Scum. LOL, you're kidding right? You've just past me in the Stupidest Person in this Game rankings. Good job.

[mcqueen]

He's fuzzy's replacement though

Exactly, another reason he's stupid.

[mcqueen]

come on bro vote me i need to get lyncheeeeeeeeed

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[mcqueen]

My computer has a virus so I might not be posting as much, sorry.

As for my self-vote... yea I shouldn't have done it, but I hate how every game people attack me as Town, when I always play the same style. It's pointless and gets me pissed off.

Also, if you thought I was joking earlier about the self-vote, you guys could have hammered me for awhile now.
Given it gives Town a pretty big chance to come up big later, with a correct lynch Day 1, I cannot figure out how my refusal to remove my self-vote is scummy, how I can be Scum, when I could have been long lynched by now.

If you still think I'm Scum, lynch me, but that gives Scum a very big advantage, if you do.

--

I'm not liking the hydra. You two are all but the same, you replace in for a side of your hydra, I don't think it should have been allowed.

Wisdom is just a lost needle in a haystack.

D_O is attacking me because he implies from his thoughts I'm scummy. Implies. His thoughts do not make him think I'm scummy, he implies from them. That's terrible.

[mcqueen]

D_O, you're going to have to find the games on your own, I honestly can't until I'm able to use a computer again.

The self-vote as a Town PR argument is invalid here, as the whole Town is PRs.

If you still think I'm Scum, lynch me, I'm beyond caring at this point.

[mcqueen]

D_O seems like Town now.
Wisdom is still shithead Scum.
Mollie seems Town, Majiffy an asshole.
Human Destroyer is annoying as fuck, don't really care what he is.
CF seems Town.
All the other players make no impression on me.

[mcqueen]

D_O seems like Town now.
Wisdom is still shithead Scum.
Mollie seems Town, Majiffy an asshole.
Human Destroyer is annoying as fuck, don't really care what he is.
CF seems Town.
All the other players make no impression on me.

I don't think wisdom is scum, too many of his posts come from a town POV.

town win condition>>>town motivation>>>town POV posts

There are only a few I see that way. The rest are

null at best

,

shithead Scum at worst

.

[mcqueen]

No you don't you annoying fuck

[mcqueen]

Stop responding to he maybe he'll go away

[mcqueen]

*hd

[mcqueen]

@Mtillous or whatever - what a troll.

I'm a neutral survivor. Just let me live pls

wtf???

@rach - hey baby I heard u getting sexy in ur scum qt ... can I cum too??

[mcqueen]

RachMarie I take it it's your first game with slimer? Because I'll vote you if it isn't.

why wud u vote rach if its not her first game with slimer

...

Stop trying to votehop you're bad at it

[mcqueen]

Because anyone who has played with slimer wouldn't take that quote seriously.

On another note;

@rach - hey baby I heard u getting sexy in ur scum qt ... can I cum too??

Rach does not have access to a scum qt, as it's not night yet and she just replaced in. I don't think scum would say something like that since they'd know it doesn't make sense, so after this you can be town.

UNVOTE:

God damn it's about time

unvote

Pedit : woqh there buddy

[mcqueen]

*woah


I ain't no mctard and I think u sir shud check rule 5 or whatever you are offending me sir thx sir

[mcqueen]

So are you gonna scumhunt now, mcqueen?

yes

VOTE: wisdom

[mcqueen]

47? Pffft my grandma is over 70

[mcqueen]

?

[mcqueen]

47? Pffft my grandma is over 70

Ur younger than my mom too O_O

[mcqueen]

Nah I lie so I can act like a whittle kid

[mcqueen]

Aren't you 13 mcqueen? My son would have turned 26 this coming June.

Would have? I'm sorry...

[mcqueen]

Udtjxgvknbibrikh snu'zjzfgnki
Uffjkhvelgidtdtigxglddoydxgitddttltntigino

[mcqueen]

Lets see if anyone can find the breadcrumb in that













































































Jk

[mcqueen]

How about both of you (Rach and mckid) get back to scumhunting? Both of your votes are terrible.

If I reply ill be replaced

[mcqueen]

More wisdom votes plz

[mcqueen]

My first sentence was @mckid

Stfu faggot

[mcqueen]

^i found scum

I scumhunted

[mcqueen]

Ok...

I'm guessing wisdom

[mcqueen]

wooah That seems a bit uncalled for there mcqueen....



LOL B and B....

What are you talking about?

Wisdom literally gives me a fricking headache, everytime I read one of his fricking posts.

[mcqueen]

@Wisdom (Post 1024) - Yet, earlier, I was a perfectly fine lynch for you. Yet, when you saw my wagon slowing down, or not even starting, as I was voting myself at the time, the first little bad usage of words from me, was your chance to call me Town, and move on.

As I said, stop votehopping, trying to cover it up, and trying to cover your scummy self up.

[mcqueen]

I am merely pointing out that I don't like this speed wagon as it's likely scum could have benefited from the momentum and pushed it.
I am not defending Rach, in fact she seems scummy to me and I might actually vote her. But as I said, I'd prefer to lynch D_O today.

D_O's not getting lynched today, forget it. All of your failed wagons and reads aren't getting lynched today.

[mcqueen]

So if I wagon Rach she won't get lynched?

I honestly don't know. Try it.

[mcqueen]

#inb4igetcalledscummybywisdom

[mcqueen]

@Wisdom - Town.

[mcqueen]

Managed to get through this at work

Pirate mollie/B&B pings and notes:

Spoiler:

post 73 (paraphrasing) "Hey doesn't HD look scummy? I'll keep my RSV vote."

post 99
This post explains why Wisdom's defending pings so hard. It is difficult to read someone that is defending you as scum, especially if you end up both attacking the same person.

post 322 This gives me a very good read on this slot. If it was the last interaction or the interactions remained similar, I could see it as two new scums where one suddenly realized that they couldn't be this connected to each other, but a) I don't think either is new & b) there wasn't a continuing distancing. At the time it felt like mollie realizing how close Wisdom was associating himself with her and finding it suspicious. Apparently, that didn't last.

post 553 This confuses me, If you think D_O is scummy here for sucking up to you, why isn't Wisdom for his (ARGH, WoT is going to make that gender hard! Apologies in advance for where I'll get this wrong.) earlier defenses of mollie?

Read: town, but mostly because Wisdom reads scum and I don't see two scum playing this way.

Tigerzone/CF Riot pings and notes:

Spoiler:

Tigerzone was a jerk. Moving on.

post 784 Death threats or not, I liked this post.

post 839 I know you explained it later, but the sudden jump to Mitellos with no explanation was odd. Also, why "about that time?"

Read: town

PetroleumJelly/Disturbed_One pings and notes:

Spoiler:

post 161 The only real post from PJ in the game and it's one of the best in the thread.

post 179 Yep, total town feeling post, I was surprised that so many people where surprised that HD called it that way.

post 181Obvious call, but a good post.

post 382 I'll look for the saying one thing/doing another in my Wisdom reread, the multiple defense posts were what pinged on my first read. The second half of this feels like reading to much into a cut in the quote. Also, I'll make a mental note to never assume D_O is asking a rhetorical question.

post 414 A) I feel your pain. B) I think you were way too hard on mollie, there was content in what she was posting. I agree with you that you can't just gloss over scum tells with "but that's how X plays!" but I think you went overboard on the idea that mollie wasn't posting anything of worth.

post 814 Wishy-washy? How? This sounds like trying to throw every bad thing you can think of at him. You're actually saying "you keep doing X - that's wishy-washy!"

Read: town
fuzzy/mcqueen

Spoiler:

post 35
Ugh. Was Fuzzy new? Because this is classic "I want to look as pro-town as I can so I'll say the most obvious thing ever"

post 53 Again.

post 130 I don't even understand this.

post 243 I don't think I saw this the first time through - why are there so many people jumping up to defend mollie?

post 256 I'm not sure why this one hit me as scummy, but it really did.

post 354 now this post... The first part is great, and I'm relatively convinced that that's happening. The last part, unless that was a total joke it's not only annoying, it's total scum. You tell me where to put my vote so I'm not responsible for it. (I'm going to assume it was a joke, given that it could have been.)

post 499For anyone that didn't understand why mcqueen was voting for Wisdom, here is the explanation. The really sad part is that after a massive scum read on fuzzy, mcqueen started to rehabilitate the slot for me with his initial reads. Well, things he was pointing out.

post 605 And then he blew it all to hell.

Read: definitely leans scum. I don't do meta, I'm not going to go back and look for mcqueen's games, but the read is mostly off of fuzzy's posts anyway as mcqueen seems to be the type of player that I can't read.

KMD:

Spoiler:

post 610

Regarding your take on the policy lynch, the problem isn't just that the town doesn't get information on the lynchee, they get very little information on anyone else in the town. Even if you get lucky and hit a scum target, anyone who's not on the lynch says "Um, policy lynch, of course I didn't jump on" and anyone who might be bussing says "have you seen how that person posts, of course I wanted to get rid of him or her." So, no, it's not that bad for scum to get rid of an anti-town player with a pro-town orientation (in fact, it's probably bad in that sense, because they get rid of someone that the town is going to continually focus on) but the waste of the day is good for them.

Wait - your vote for mollie wasn't a joke? Then what was it?

fuzzy may have already asked, but it's a damn good question all the same.

I agree with ProHawk, that the line about him not looking obvtown like he did elsewhere, is a nasty little insert.

You noted that Siv & ThePuck's tiger votes looked opportunistic, and didn't mention D_O, why is he included in your "one of three is scum" but ProHawk isn't - especially after you just said that ProHawk doesn't look as obvtown as usual?

Read: Null, leaning scum - there's just not a lot there to work with, he made one large post with information where bits of it pinged, as mentioned above but other than that all we're getting is posting enough to stay in the game.

HD

Spoiler:

post 88 I like this post.

post 210 Follows up the last one that I said I liked with an expansion of the reads on Wisdom and mollie, explains his current concern with the tigerzone wagon. Another good post.

post 222 Exactly. I can see "Hey, you're being mean, stop it" defenses of another player. When someone is actually finding things that they find suspicious about another player, it's fine to give an altering read but jumping in to actively defend is a really scum move. Among other things, the player should be the one responding to it so that we can get their reaction to the evidence. (There's probably a side note here that I really hate meta arguments. I don't really care how someone plays in another game. I care what they are doing in this game.) The other problem, of course, is that it really easy for a player to say "Hey, player Y is defending me, he or she can tell that I'm town. He or she must be pro-town as well." There's a reason that buddying is considered a scum tell.

post 233 Another good post.

post 856
I'm not sure I appreciate you calling someone out for not attempting to break up an argument in which you were a full participant. The rest of this is rational.

Read: Town. Seems to be scum hunting. Reverses his reads when something makes it questionable. "Tunnels," yes, but who doesn't? I especially like the mollie reversal when it began to look more and more like Wisdom was buddying up to her.

Mitellos:

Spoiler:

post 123
Liked this post. Normally the @mod things are slightly annoying because it feels like a way to get a word in without actually saying anything, but the rest of the post goes on to make some analysis, so that part's null.

post 195 I agree with you about policy lynches, but you completely misrepresented the tigerzone wagon. Noone wanted to policy lynch tigerzone because of the zab policy lynch. HD & DO wanted to lynch him because they found the PL scummy and the others wanted to policy lynch him because his actions caused someone else to actually quit this game in protest.

post 565
Siv's too quiet to be anything but null.

post 819 Siv's the next highest scum read after HD. B&B's case is mentioned here, so there might be a reason I missed in ISO. (Yep, looking back, B&B did give a response on Siv that pretty much echoes how I've been thinking. Mitellos stopped asking about Siv and then, next time he was mentioned was second most scummy. Seems reasonable.)

post 942 Another good post.

Read: Town


ProHawk:

Spoiler:

post 154A very good explanation of why mollie looked scummy in the early game.

post 369
And the explanation for the Wisdom wagon. Also, I completely agree with the "scum won't work so hard" analysis.

post 696
I completely agree, but kind of love "show me a game where using information from another game was helpful!"

post 989 Meh, I've mentioned somewhere else that I hate @mod posts that don't do anything else because it's a way to look like you're keeping up and contributing without actually adding to the conversation, but Rach was pretty much spamming the thread anyway at that point, so that's not a big deal. Unless you picked up from it that she was claiming day 1, I don't see that it's that much of a issue. It's not like soft claiming a power role in this game means anything. I find the slot scummy as hell, but I'm not sure that's what would have made me flip to vote her.

Read: Well, it was town until the Rach vote with a weak argument. Now I guess it's "leans town."

SIV/Rach:

Spoiler:

post 174 Paraphrasing: "I hate a policy lynch, but we have to do so and tigerzone has more votes"

post 438 Paraphrasing: "tigerzone lynch is dead"

post 515Paraphrasing: "and no one seems to be going with ThePuck."

post 883There are things that are obviously jokes and there are things that are jokes that stomp on your toes and punch you in the nose. When there are actually serious reasons to suspect people, votes for such things are ludicrous. (I could almost see a frustration "quit joking around" vote. I've considered it. But an "I'm going to take this obvious joke seriously" vote?)

post 939
A) Out of all of Mitellos' posts, that offhand comment to mcqueen being, um, mcqueen, was all you saw to comment on and it gave you a town read?
B) Have you READ this thread? A little less of the same argument over and over would be a very good thing.

post 954 WTH? D_O posts an intro that gives distinct reads on everyone when he replaces into the game. And then spends another 32 pages telling us exactly what he thinks and you vote him because he hasn't posted that list updated since then?

post 956 Seriously, you don't have any idea what D_O is thinking? He's been pretty damn bloody clear.

Read: Scum.

Slimer:

Spoiler:

Right. There was something to analyze.

Read: WTFEver.

Wisdom:

Spoiler:

post 55 This post I like. Here Wisdom is looking for things that don't make sense in what other people do.

post 71 As I said to someone above, the problem with a policy lynch isn't so much that it takes away the towns chance to get information from the lynchee, it takes away the ability to get information from the rest of the town.

post 78I can see where Wisdom's coming from in this one. Lynch anyone who wants a policy lynch!!1 is, ah, counterproductive

post 126 Yeah, it's been called out by others, but "that person that I don't have a problem with did the same thing as the person that I do have a problem with. Huh, lynch the guy I already had a problem with, he's obvscum."

post 150 Defends mollie.

post 152 Defends mollie.

post 155Defends mollie.

post 157 I'm not defending mollie. Defends mollie.

post 159 Defends mollie.

post 162 I'm NOT defending mollie, I am defending tigerzone. Defends mollie.

post 182 The infamous "lynching town" comment, which is AWFUL. Also? Defends mollie.

post 229You do realize that there is a difference between, "ok, that read as town to me" and "Why would you think that's scummy, they are always like that." Especially when the first is not in response to someone else calling it scummy, but giving a read. No one has commented on your analysis that slimer looks town. You've made a call and let the town know what you think. That's fine. If HD had started telling everyone that their reads on D_O were off - then you'd have a comparison. (And if tis happened in one of the posts that I admittedly skimmed through because you all were sying the same thing post after post, please point it out to me.)

post 245Laying the groundwork for a backpedal.

post 262 The second such and such is a townie post. (And after saying numerous times that he didn't even have a town read on mollie.

post 264 Defending mollie.

post 286 I hate meta arguments. This is a large part of why - I'm not going to go skimming back through other games of people I'm playing with. If nothing else, I don't have that kind of time.

post 295Why? Is mollie incapable of defending herself? Because it doesn't particularly seem like that is the case.

post 334 It's the backpedal, but it comes with reasoning to move over and some idea of who else he finds suspicious. I'm ok with this.

post 373 Why would HD trying to push your lynch and mollie's make mollie town, even if he is scum? Scum bus each other. Even better, if HDscum has linked you and mollie in people's minds and you come up town... mollie looks pretty good, doesn't she? Also, you were the one that linked mollie and you together, not HD.

post 383 (Not a paraphrase) "It's not even like I defended anyone, I just shot down the accusations on mollie and slimer because they were bullshit - I am not sure either of them is town though."
I'm not defending them, all I did was defend them! Also, it's totally crap to claim that I'm doing things that I don't believe in, I'm just defending people that I don't know are innocent.

post 460 Defending does not have anything to do with the quality of the arguments that are made against a person. Defending is simply speaking up in their defense. Again, this is bad for two reasons:
A) It makes it so that the person that is being called scum does not have to answer the arguments themselves. If the argument was completely invalid, why not let mollie respond to it?
B) It makes a town player more likely to trust you, unless they are being careful. This is why scum like to do it. (And it's the answer to the above question, because it makes mollie more likely to trust you.)

Read: Scum

Zab:

Spoiler:

Before going into a pbpa: I think zab got off a little easy in the policy lynch debacle and find it interesting that people where calling out tigerzone for it but never really noticed that zab was doing the exact same thing.

post 298 So many reasons that that is silly.
A) Depending on the length of a game, telling someone to go read it is hours of commitment. And there's no reason to assume that they will see the same thing that you are thinking of. If people insist on using meta, then they need to point out what the hell they are talking about.
B) Have you seen the massive output that HD has put into this game?

post 335 I like this move.

post 726 Have I mentioned how much I really dislike the @mod posts? And why? Posts that don't contribute to the conversation are the epitome of active lurking. It's less noticeable than someone that pops in right before or after a prod and gives a quick nothing post, but it's just as bad.

post 778 I think this one was at D_O and, again, it's a dig that someone else isn't putting effort into the game - someone that helped fill 40 bloody pages of arguments!

Read: Leans scum. There's one post that I like and the rest appear to be making sure that everyone knows he's around and that he's paying attention.

As a note, I did these all at different times, so they are not all ending at the same spot in the thread. If I'd have gone back and updated to have everyone at the same spot, I'd be at this forever.

I can see the RachMarie vote, but I'm going to VOTE: Wisdom for all the reasons I listed above.

Hmm. You've inspired me to play better again.

P-Edit - I don't see anything very scummy coming from her, except for one post, which I'll try to find in a minute. So I'm calling her Town.

[mcqueen]

It was either 973, 990, or 992, I can't remember.

[mcqueen]

And I find myself scrolling through the Jalyn/Wisdom argument, giving not a single fuck.

VOTE: DO

I'd really rather not risk having no protection tonight. I feel pretty okay about the case on DO. I can do this or Mitillos today.

You finally vote. And you vote this joker. Get your vote off a lynch that will not happen today. It's between RachMarie and Wisdom. Period.

[mcqueen]

Yeah I had claimed and yet they still want to lynch me Kmd.

If there is not scum involvement in that then I will eat my words post game. I even offered to have them lynch me tomorrow if I was not NKed tonight by the scum. I am at a loss here. I thought everyone knew how Siv plays. His lurking and then periodically laying down a vote is a null tell for him cause he does it both as scum and town. Oh well Town can still win. But it bites not getting to protect someone. Meanwhile I still need to do Hawk's ISO.

I missed this.

It would be useless for Scum to NK you tonight. After tonight, you become a mere Townie. If they kill you tonight, you can still use your ability, therefore there is no point in wasting an NK on you, unless they have a better reason to.

[mcqueen]

Anyone voting non-viable lynches for today, needs to remove their vote. It's getting annoying how people who haven't voted for half the time, come in and join a wagon that isn't happening today.

That is heavily directed at zabriel, along with a few others.

Kmd, please finish reading, and stop basing reads off of Siv. He did the thing he felt right, to replace out, due to him losing interest in the game. Stop trying to find clues within him, he's gone, and discussing him now has no purpose or advantage. If you're that far behind, skip to page 30 or so, and read from there. If you're not even to page 30, yet, you should really replace out, and let someone who has time to read replace in.

[mcqueen]

Anyone voting non-viable lynches for today, needs to remove their vote. It's getting annoying how people who haven't voted for half the time, come in and join a wagon that isn't happening today.

That is heavily directed at zabriel, along with a few others.
/quote]

You're not getting to decide what lynches happen and which don't. It's entirely possible that someone with 0 votes at the moment might get lynched, if the town feels like it.

Bullshit.

Look, as much as I see RachMarie as Town, as much as I'm getting tired of this Day. VOTE: RachMarie Someone hammer, particularly zabriel, because for all the posting he's been doing, while on "V/LA," he's done complete shit.

[mcqueen]

Because I'm tired of this Day, and all my reads are very weak, even when I say they aren't. This game is confusing and annoying.

HD is annoying, zabriel's post-style annoys me, it annoys me how my townreads are getting bandwagoned, it annoys me how the scummiest of people slip by, etc.

I'd rather give up one of my own, than continue this Day. That's how annoyed I am.

Now hammer RachMarie, you filthy scumbag. Scared?

[mcqueen]

That's sad, N.

VOTE: RachMarie

It's interesting zabriel decides to totally ignore me, until he calls my vote bad.

Kmd, you need to replace out. You're hurting your slot, and making the game more stressful.

@N - Requesting force-replacement of Kmd, as I honestly feel he is hurting his slot, and the game.

[mcqueen]

Lynched.

That's sad, N.

VOTE: RachMarie

It's interesting zabriel decides to totally ignore me, until he calls my vote bad.

Kmd, you need to replace out. You're hurting your slot, and making the game more stressful.

@N - Requesting force-replacement of Kmd, as I honestly feel he is hurting his slot, and the game.

My biggest scumread out of these is still Rach. I'm not sure I buy her claim. Looking back at Siv, I think he would be unlikely to play as he played, if he were a D1 PR. Also, I am less sure about HD. I've looked at a few more of his games and I'm not confident in my read on him.

Unvote

Vote: RachMarie

Also, how exactly is Wisdom's "if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?" scummy? It points out that one should keep in mind all possible scenarios, which is actually a rather townie thing to do.

p-edit: Rach is on L-1 now.

[mcqueen]

Omg, I can't read. Rach is at L-1.

[mcqueen]

No.

[mcqueen]

Its funny how wisdom sits on ms 24/7

Lmao

[mcqueen]

No?^

[mcqueen]

@chik: Your post right after the hammer makes it seem like you hadn't realised Rach was at L-1, which implies you weren't paying much attention to what had happened. Now, 1232 implies that you at least went over the 48 or so pages before and had a good idea of what was going on. These two positions are contradictory.

You're so wrong, it's not laughable. And I mean on many occasions.

[mcqueen]

@queen: Vague dismissals are invalid and pointless. Do something helpful, for once.
@chk: Me, personally? Nothing. I was on the Rach wagon as well. But others were still discussing their reads, so obviously they wanted more. Why would you cut that short?
Here's another question though. If you didn't bother reading the game, why would you hammer Rach? You couldn't possibly have a scumread on her.

You are dismissed.

[mcqueen]

VOTE: chkflip

Lynched.

[mcqueen]

Way to keep up your title McQueen.

Thanks, I didn't want chkflip taking it away from me.

[mcqueen]

Naice going.

[mcqueen]

VOTE: McQueen

Freaking liability keeping this fearless scum-around. Disguises himself as a dumb-townie.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to stop my lynch, now, it's just one of those times.

VOTE: mcqueen

Good luck, Town.

[mcqueen]

2 MORE VOTES PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mcqueen]

W00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000T IM GETTING LYNCHED BABY

OH YEAAAHH

YEEE

FUCK YEA

[mcqueen]

Kill it with fire. Slimer, this is a good lynch to get rid of your competition.

The hilarious thing is, I'm not Scum.

You are.

VOTE: ProHawk

Stop fucking hiding behind all the people who have screwed up in this game.

[mcqueen]

Says the guy who quick-lynched a townie who asked to be replaced with lotsa time left in the day...

Says the guy who hides behind all the stupid people, such as theslimer3 (no offense) and me, in this game.

Stop hiding, and using all of our screw-ups as a case. Screw-ups are screw-ups, dumbasses will be dumbasses, but Scum is still Scum. And you are Scum.

So... you must be Scum.

[mcqueen]

Speaking of

scum bussing partners

, any cops from night 1 or 2 wanna claim yet? I know we didn't kill them both already

I said nothing about bussing.

Let's go back -

Kill it with fire. Slimer, this is a good lynch to get rid of your competition.

Why do you want him to put me at L-1? So your 3rd partner can hammer me?

Good game. 2 down, 1 to go.

---

Also -

Speaking of scum bussing partners,

any cops from night 1 or 2 wanna claim

yet?

I

know

we didn't kill them both already

Why are you insisting now-Vanilla Townie-like players claim? How do you

know

you haven't killed them already?

[mcqueen]

Cause you are a freaking moron who is going to

lose the game for us if you even are town

(which I doubt). I'm not hiding behind anyone dude. Get over yourself.

Yes, because when I play good, and get going, I

can

lead Town, and have before. I'm not always a weak player, but 90% of the time I am. And if I lead Town now, and got you and theslimer3 lynched, that would nearly cost you the win, wouldn't it?

Because the odds of it is off.
Are you saying

we

ended up killing both day one and day two cops already?

I'm saying that Scum are told which roles (and Night numbers, to my understanding of the OP) are in the game, and you

know

that you haven't killed the Night 1 and Night 2 Cops.

My vote still stands.

[mcqueen]

@queen: chk was getting grilled for his Rach hammer and you hammered him without even asking for a claim? This is not a pro-town action. Why on earth would you end discussion, so unthinkingly?

Vote: Mcqueen

Anyone who voted chk for his hammer and isn't at the very least questioning queen's actions, should take a good hard look at what they're doing.

@CF: I thought we discussed your scumread on me and I countered your point. Do you have a new reason for it, or...?

He had said he wasn't going to claim.

[mcqueen]

I would argue you and Jalyn were called suspect by more people than B&B and ProHawk was roughly equal, but that aside, I don't see why your paranoia of these townish people being alive leads you to vote McQueen since... ya know, he's not on this list.

mcqueen isn't a paranoia vote, the Wisdom kill only makes sense from him and the BATB also makes sense from him.

No. When I'm Scum, I don't kill people because I don't like them.

Of course, Wisdom is characterized differently, so of course I would have Nightkilled him, had I been Scum, though I'm not, and I'm just being badly framed.

But why, of all fucking people, would I kill BATB? I had no real discussion with him/her, no real leads about him/her, I just disliked the hydra side of it. I had no reason to kill BATB, I would have made a much more intelligent Nightkill.

You guys are really retarded. Can we just fucking lynch this scumbag, by the name of "ProHawk?"

[mcqueen]

Ok, Riot. Since you keep saying what I am doing is a policy lynch, you tell me why it's so bad at the moment.

You agree that his play was scummy D2, yet you are sitting here arguing with me because i'm saying its a tactical move in addition to lynching a possible scum-dude?

Kmd, I will get to your post in a bit.

You're so bad at playing Scum, it's laughable.

[mcqueen]

You're a moron McQueen. If you're not scum, you should be ashamed.

No, I shouldn't. You're a fucking scumbag, you're bad at hiding it, all you know how to do is hide behind people's mistakes, jump on them, call them weak, and get the fuck away with it. I'm tired of your fucking kind around here.

Someone please fucking bandwagon this mother fucker.

[mcqueen]

All you can do is beg, so...?

You think I'm actually begging. Are you a dumbass, or what?

I'm not going to lynch myself.

...

God damn it,

SOMEONE FUCKING LYNCH THIS PIECE OF SHIT!!!

[mcqueen]

LOL

so am i supposed to play good now or what

[mcqueen]

like, i was literally about to hammer myself, until unvotes unvotes unvotes

[mcqueen]

Yeah, I kinda figured that.

Mit you can buddy me all day but it isn't going to change anything.

Which is why you don't call me Innocent, I'm a liability, and I'm better off lynched. Just lynch ProHawk tomorrow, and theslimer3's slot the next Day, if ProHawk flips Scum.

Btw, I already claimed awhile back, Night 5 Doctor.

*Why couldn't I have just been lynched?*

[mcqueen]

Human, how many names you gonna throw out as scum today?

As many as I have to.

Just lynch ProHawk.

Yeah, I suck, but as the only

alive

confirmed Town player, I think you should trust me a little more.

[mcqueen]

I'm already voting him silly.

I'm sorry. It's hard to keep track, when you keep changing your reads.

[mcqueen]

hi

[mcqueen]

Great. Then lynch me and lose. Or win in your case.

ok

[mcqueen]

zabriel, what have you done? Vote me, and speculate on a couple other things? You honestly appeal to me as a terrible player.

VOTE: zabriel

[mcqueen]

O the irony.

did i ask you to speak?

no

are you town?

no

am i scum?

no

where you right about me being scum?

no

can you say me calling something else terrible is ironic?

no

btw, ill be voting u again soon prohawk, im just trying to scumhunt, and get zabriel to do something.

people can change, yknow.

[mcqueen]

Can't wait to see the results.

do you ever stfu

VOTE: prohawk

fuck zabriel if im scum like u thot earlier i can always nk him LOL

[mcqueen]

ugh.

UNVOTE:

i still think you're scum, but you seem pissed off, in the way i get sometimes, and it seems genuine. it's something that cant be explained, and im not gonig to explain it, im just going to unvote you until you are your arrogant self again.

[mcqueen]

McQueen hammer Mitillos as a favor to me for saving your life and because you don't really care about this game anyways.

So?

VOTE: Kmd

Scum.

[mcqueen]

Brb and ill explain why

[mcqueen]

ok im back.

kmd, i feel your struggle to keep up day 1 was genuine, although annoying, but, given you joined in 2008, you are probably experienced. and if age doesnt matter, unless he fully did not play for most of that time, 5 years is enough time to gain some experience. so i havent put it past you to fake your struggles to keep up, and barely do anything. because besides commenting on pages long gone, you did nothing on day 1, at least nothing that had anything to do with what we were talking about,

when

we were talking about it, it took you 20+ pages to comment on everything 20 pages ago. thus, you merely sat around all day, and got a free pass to live another day.

i may have acted like i have agreed with kmd for a bit now, or at least not disagreed with him, but ive been watching him, notice how i havent voted, nor hammered mit, his biggest scumread.

and i dont have any intentions of hammering him, although outwardly, my read on him was null-town, he hasnt done anything to make me want to vote him, certainly not hammer. so, thats at least a null read, if not a town read.