Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[RachMarie]

LOL Zabriel well that quote of women should be quiet meek lil doormats and let the men be in charge was kinda sexist

[zabriel]

Well, that's what you get from somebody who writes in out-of-context Bible quotes.

[RachMarie]

BTW I messed up I was thinking of another game which is still ongoing. N 1318 where I was IC and scum and got you lynched is over sorry about that Zab.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I obviously won't be reading the 35 pages I have left, but let's see what kind of dent I can make.

Page 10:
Not sure if I said this already, but fuzzy's slot is town.

I REEEAALLLLYYYY don't like Human's quick dismissal of fuzzy's meta town case on mollie. I feel like town would want to consider "oh wait, you've played with this person and caught something in their meta? Let me see if I see what you are seeing". Human is more "No. Meta sucks lol". That's not town thinking.

Wisdom, two things. That's a pretty bad logical fallacy to say that whoever tunnels on you must be town because it's been that way in the past. The other thing is I don't see Human as tunneling on you. He's also pushing Mollie and has expressed some town reads as well.

Page 11:
For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with Human having a read on Disturbed from one post. I also don't have a problem with Fuzzy calling it out. It doesn't really affect my reads, but everyone is arguing over it so there's my two cents.

Human points out why the votes on him are bad. OMGUS, pushing easy lynch, and having a read from one post. Yes, those are bad reasons. But I don't see scum there. I see misguided in at least two, maybe even all three of those things.

Hmm. Human's callout of a scumslip from Wisdom looked bad, but Wisdom's response was even worse. Human has it wrong though. If he slipped anything, it's not that he's scum with Mollie. It's that he knows Mollie is town.

Question for any good players here:

if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?

^Why the fuck would any town aligned player ever say this???

Seriously, the only thing this does is create WIFOM around any connections between Wisdom and Mollie if one of them flips scum. There is literally zero town benefit or reason why town might say this. Wisdom absolutely has to be scum here. I think that has to make Human town though.

*Sigh*. No flips yet and Zab is already giving Wisdom what he wants.

Page 12:
Mollie, not sure if this is scum you trying to look like you are doing something town or if it's town you doing it the wrong way, but in case it's town you... On the whole Prohawk thing. When you are trying to shake out things, as you put it, to determine someone's alignment, it's best not to tell them what you expect from each. I've seen you do this a few times and it really helps scum figure out what mold they want to fit. Luckily, I'll probably be able to catch Prohawk doing this if he's scum once I read his response. But for future reference, try not to help scum stay off your radar.

Human vs Wisdom is ridiculously frustrating to read. I feel like one of them has to be town because I don't think they have it in them to fake this (unless Human does and Wisdom's shit is purely responsive) but both are just reeking of scum. The only thing that puts Wisdom above Human to me is the thing I bolded which I cannot at all see coming from town.

Unfortunately this is another "I have to add my two cents" thing, but I don't feel Human has to read an entire game because Wisdom says there is proof for a meta case there. I personally wouldn't do it and I think it's ridiculous to say that someone else should have to. If it's your case, walk us through it. Don't say "there's a case here. Go find it".

Finally a voice of reason in this game. Thank you Mit.

Page 13:
Zab, why ask 311? Did you expect any different answer than the one you got?

Starting to be pretty sure Mollie is town.

Page 14:
Wisdom, you say Human "can die" because he's staying in his tunnel. What happened to the thing where the person who tunnels you is always town?

Zab, why The Puck as your preferred lurker lynch? Do you have any specific case? Also, why lurker lynch in a game where the actual problem is people who overpost?

I legit laughed at 337 by Human. That's the one where he highlights Wisdom wanting to get off his wagon after he asks the town to lynch Wisdom and Mollie after himself.

Based on Mollie's prodding of Prohawk for his thoughts on the tigerzone thing, I was ready to call Prohawk scum until he requested replacement. He wouldn't go that far to fit a mold because he wouldn't even get a win if he's scum and his team goes on to win. It would defeat the purpose. Now that doesn't mean he's town. It just mean he legitimately doesn't want to play with tigerzone. Unfortunately, that says squat about his alignment. <- Actually, scratch that. I don't think he'd respond to tiger's meme that way if that were the case. And if I remember right, he ended up staying in the game. So depending on how this played out, the whole thing is somewhere between null and scummy.

I don't like Disturbed's attempt to paint Mollie as policy-lynchable. She's not even close to that so I don't see that as a legitimate attack. I think he's just trying to lazily mud the waters and not have to make a case why she's scum in the process. And then I hate the whole policy/scummy combo vote on tigerzone. The policy thing is an excuse and the "he's scummy too" is an attempt not to look bad.

Page 15:
Really don't like Disturbed ignoring the point behind Human's point on Wisdom backing off of his Human-vote. I like his dismissal of the whole argument as "town on town" for no reason even less.

Prohawk stays. Big surprise[/sarcasm]. And the first thing he does is talk about Mollie who questioned his stance on tigerzone to begin with. Hmm. The thing throwing me off is the Wisdom case though. It's a good case and I think Wisdom is scum. Prohawk doesn't seem like someone who would bus like that.

Page 16:
Calling it quits after this page. I want some food before work.

Disturbed's Wisdom vote looks like a bus. He says Wisdom seems to be "the lynch of the day". It's giving up and trying not to look bad after Wisdom's scum flip. Wisdom and Disturbed are scum together. The only question left is who is their buddy. Rach? Prohawk? Meh, we have a while to figure it out. Also lol at Disturbed's "Yes Human, you didn't do it right, but now that Prohawk makes the same case it makes soooo much sense now".

So. I'm confident that Wisdom is scum. I'm less confident about where my vote is and if I recall, it's on someone who is near a lynch. Let me see how close we are to deadline and all that. My second choice for a lynch is Disturbed. After that, I have to work off of associative tells once we have flips. By then, we'll have all kinds of other things to go off of. Right now, I want Wisdom and/or Disturbed lynched.

Deadline is a week away.

Unvote, Vote Wisdom

[Kmd4390]

Oh cool. Three votes on each of Wisdom/Disturbed. This should go smoothly.

[mcqueen]

That's sad, N.

VOTE: RachMarie

It's interesting zabriel decides to totally ignore me, until he calls my vote bad.

Kmd, you need to replace out. You're hurting your slot, and making the game more stressful.

@N - Requesting force-replacement of Kmd, as I honestly feel he is hurting his slot, and the game.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, two things. That's a pretty bad logical fallacy to say that whoever tunnels on you must be town because it's been that way in the past. The other thing is I don't see Human as tunneling on you. He's also pushing Mollie and has expressed some town reads as well.

Sure, that's not the only reason I think HD is town. His thought process had started to seem genuine and more likely to come from town. The fact he was tunneling on me and therefore he could be town was just an observation I made at the moment.
And you're wrong, he was pretty tunneled on both me and Mollie.

Hmm. Human's callout of a scumslip from Wisdom looked bad, but Wisdom's response was even worse. Human has it wrong though. If he slipped anything, it's not that he's scum with Mollie. It's that he knows Mollie is town.

Not a slip. Has been explained.

Question for any good players here:

if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?

^Why the fuck would any town aligned player ever say this???

Seriously, the only thing this does is create WIFOM around any connections between Wisdom and Mollie if one of them flips scum. There is literally zero town benefit or reason why town might say this. Wisdom absolutely has to be scum here. I think that has to make Human town though.

You're wrong. I'll tell you what the benefit is - I wanted to show him that he's wrong thinking I'm scum with mollie in case he's town, since I could also be WKing her, or show the fallacy in his thought process to the rest of the town in case he is scum. In other words, it was just a question to show that his being positive that I'm scum with mollie was wrong, since there was also this possibility.

Human vs Wisdom is ridiculously frustrating to read. I feel like one of them has to be town because I don't think they have it in them to fake this (unless Human does and Wisdom's shit is purely responsive) but both are just reeking of scum. The only thing that puts Wisdom above Human to me is the thing I bolded which I cannot at all see coming from town.

Town vs town doesn't cross your mind, huh?

Page 14:
Wisdom, you say Human "can die" because he's staying in his tunnel. What happened to the thing where the person who tunnels you is always town?

There are limits to tunneling and I get annoyed when people don't realize they're wrong after a while. Still, he's town. That was just me expressing my annoyance at that point.

Disturbed's Wisdom vote looks like a bus. He says Wisdom seems to be "the lynch of the day". It's giving up and trying not to look bad after Wisdom's scum flip. Wisdom and Disturbed are scum together. The only question left is who is their buddy. Rach? Prohawk? Meh, we have a while to figure it out. Also lol at Disturbed's "Yes Human, you didn't do it right, but now that Prohawk makes the same case it makes soooo much sense now".

Disturbed is scum, I am not. In any case, if you're confident we're both scum, you should vote Disturbed.

So. I'm confident that Wisdom is scum. I'm less confident about where my vote is and if I recall, it's on someone who is near a lynch. Let me see how close we are to deadline and all that. My second choice for a lynch is Disturbed. After that, I have to work off of associative tells once we have flips. By then, we'll have all kinds of other things to go off of. Right now, I want Wisdom and/or Disturbed lynched.

You're wrong. In both our previous games you read me wrong and this is no different. I am not scum. You should vote Disturbed.

[Wisdom]

mcqueen if anyone needs to replace out, it's you.

[Mitillos]

My biggest scumread out of these is still Rach. I'm not sure I buy her claim. Looking back at Siv, I think he would be unlikely to play as he played, if he were a D1 PR. Also, I am less sure about HD. I've looked at a few more of his games and I'm not confident in my read on him.

Unvote

Vote: RachMarie

Also, how exactly is Wisdom's "if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?" scummy? It points out that one should keep in mind all possible scenarios, which is actually a rather townie thing to do.

p-edit: Rach is on L-1 now.

[Wisdom]

Given Siv replaced out, nothing about his play looks that scummy anymore. Most likely he was not able to keep up/not interested.

[Wisdom]

Interesting that you backed off HD now. You seemed pretty confident before.

[Disturbed_One]

It's becoming impossible to catch up on this. I have a meat world commitment that is severely limiting my time. I'm sorry, I just don't have enough time to truly give this game enough of my attention. That's not right for any of you, so I'm going to have to be replaced.

@ Mod: Requesting replacement.

Again, my most sincere apologies for this. My free time has been severely limited lately.

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: I was. Now I'm not. I thought his tunneling was a scumtell, but now... And Siv was replaced by Rach. She has the same role PM he had. If she is telling the truth, Siv was a D1 Doc. I don't think he was. I think Rach is lying and if so, she needs to be lynched.

[Wisdom]

Why do you think Siv couldn't have been a N1 Doc?

[Kmd4390]

Mcqueen that's fucked up. I'm not going to replace out of something I'm investing time and energy into.

Wisdom, response another time. Clocking into work in two minutes lol

[CF Riot]

Why is Rach not hammered yet?

[Wisdom]

Because we should lynch D_O instead.

[RachMarie]

Bah Milt have you looked at any of Siv's other games? I would be happy to provide links. I have yet to see Siv get really active in a game no matter what his role is. And he often throws votes down with nothing much to say why he is throwing it down.

Ahh CF good to see you being your townie self but you are barking up the wrong tree here... Please help Wisdom find the real scum seriously after I am gone.

Kmd along with Zab have played many a game with me. One quick question Kmd, have you ever seen me fake claim as scum as being a PR when I did not have a PR?

[RachMarie]

I could support a D.O lynch over a Wisdom lynch for sure. Wisdom is my top town read.

[Wisdom]

Rach
1) Vote D_O, B&B is not getting lynched.
2) Stop saying "I don't fake claim PRs" when there's nothing else to fake claim here. It doesn't help you.

[RachMarie]

VOTE: DO


and done.

[mcqueen]

Lynched.

That's sad, N.

VOTE: RachMarie

It's interesting zabriel decides to totally ignore me, until he calls my vote bad.

Kmd, you need to replace out. You're hurting your slot, and making the game more stressful.

@N - Requesting force-replacement of Kmd, as I honestly feel he is hurting his slot, and the game.

My biggest scumread out of these is still Rach. I'm not sure I buy her claim. Looking back at Siv, I think he would be unlikely to play as he played, if he were a D1 PR. Also, I am less sure about HD. I've looked at a few more of his games and I'm not confident in my read on him.

Unvote

Vote: RachMarie

Also, how exactly is Wisdom's "if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?" scummy? It points out that one should keep in mind all possible scenarios, which is actually a rather townie thing to do.

p-edit: Rach is on L-1 now.

[Wisdom]

She's at L-1.

[Wisdom]

You probably didn't count kmd's unvote.

[mcqueen]

Omg, I can't read. Rach is at L-1.