Newbie 1198: Mafia on Holiday (Game Over)

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, fun, I get to read through 34 pages in Cached mode *fake joy*

Anyways, while I slog through all that, anything important you two can tell me would be mighty appreciated.

[Voidedmafia]

First I was like, "Wait a sec, didn't I get this game?" And then I realized I got 89 and 92, not 98. Silly me.

So, you're under fire because of the last statement against you, or you're under fire because you need to make a defense against the last statement? Just trying to understand that last line a little better.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, I would've facepalmed so hard if Brin had actually layed down that "vote just to check if you would" vote. So hard. (and fuck the amished tell if anyone pulls that on me).

Anyways, going off of just page 34 (no time to read through the entire cache tonight), it indeed seems you are in the hot seat. TA, anything else you'd like to add on your end of things?

[Voidedmafia]

Aren't I thankful he didn't, eh?

[Voidedmafia]

You sound rather...defeated. Like you're just putting up a rebuttal just to refute it rather than to try and keep yourself alive.

[Voidedmafia]

The post he in made in response to me doesn't sound like someone who is trying to fight their way out of a lynch (disregarding what the rollback may have done to people in regards to their willingness to play), but like someone who just wants to go through the motions and get it over with. It's understandable, given the rollback, but it's still not exactly the kind of attitude that would make me more inclined to believe his points and such.

[Voidedmafia]

Yoohoo, peeps. Don't be forgetting this game now.

I've had a few more pressing things to deal with IRL that have prevented me from looking over the cache, but I'm working on it, don't worry.

[Voidedmafia]

Up to page 3 now (slow going, I know). So far I like both of you.

(Keep in mind that any reads I give during this should not be taken as a definitive read in the present unless I say otherwise)

[Voidedmafia]

Well, ignoring the overly-long verbiage in that paragraph that didn't need to be there...

You sure you don't have any questions for me at all yet? THis ain't the Zen and Angel show, after all, and I can't imagine that you don't have SOMETHING to ask me.

[Voidedmafia]

...fuck the what?

report this ho, G.

[Voidedmafia]

Haven't seen any guys like that on here Crash must've let them in or something.

Question still stands, Zen, TA.

[Voidedmafia]

I haven't been keeping active track of who suspects who between you two (which is what I've mainly been trying to focus on since you're the only other two alive, not to mention the only two left from the start of the game), but I did notice that post 148 of Zen's is where he places some sort of hard suspicion on TA (as in, he definitively suspects TA, and isn't just poking or prodding him lightly; not necessarily a vote, but essentially he's a scumread). I didn't see any suspicions of him from you prior to that (discounting anything from page 1 or 2 as those were manly RVS), so do you think you can remember why you suspected him then? I understand if it's hard to remember your mindset then, but any little thing for me helps. You both are still town up to page 7 (busy day today), but this is a pretty interesting find, I think.

[Voidedmafia]

post 148, page 6.

[Voidedmafia]

Alright, thank you.

Considering that making a pressure vote and stating it to be pressure defeats its purpose, TA just nullified his own vote (since point #2 in 126 was retracted by himself), so that puts some scumpoints on TA.

[Voidedmafia]

Granted. However, you still nullified your own argument, and pushing it as if it isn't nulled certainly isn't town.

And pressure votes are fine, but as I said, stating them to be pressure effectively nullifies any sort of gain you could get from them (not that you CAN'T, but I doubt you'd get anything), and usually then makes that vote worthless at best and somewhat scummy at worst, depending on context and stuff.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, 156 appeases that part of things, anyways.

160 by Zen is meh-okay, but losing your temper at the end doesn't really help you, and kinda negates the rest of it. Makes it sound more passive-aggresive, kinda. 161 is much better (and not a bad case), and DBK's own little peeves don't detract from that.

Finished with Page 7. Right now PoE would make me vote TA, as 160 and 161 together make me think Zen is townier than TA. Still have 27 more pages left, though, so -_-

Also, Zen, we're still waiting on that rebuttal.

[Voidedmafia]

You sure you don't have any questions for me at all yet? THis ain't the Zen and Angel show, after all, and I can't imagine that you don't have SOMETHING to ask me.

I can not ask you things that brinatoo has stated, I can not ask you things that askesis has stated. You are new, and therefore I have nothing on you. I am waiting for you to ask me questions.

@Voided: Definitely agree with this. That's why I said I want to dig up more info on "your slot" and not "you." Right now the only real questions we can ask are your reads on both of us, but that's still on its way.

As we wait for Zen's reply to my arguments, we should also wait for you/me to read/reread the cache (which is a little clunky to use in my opinion). The deadline has been restarted. Are you maybe trying to rush a mislynch, Voided?

Well, if wanting questions to answer=wanting a mislynch, well, that's, like, your opinion, man. (and yes, that is roughly grammatically correct).

Also, you can ask me my opinions on them. Amished tell kinda applies, but I think that's shit anyways so it doesn't faze me.

Related note: Holy crap, how'd I miss this post?

[Voidedmafia]

Well, yeah, I'm not a mind-jacker/reader who can figure out what they were thinking at such-and-such a time. And okay, you can't ask questions about ask or brin. What about yourselves? Surely you can ask my opinion on a post from TA, and vice-versa, and please don't tell me there aren't posts in the cache that you want me to look at specifically, cuz that's bullshit.

[Voidedmafia]

Brin's basically saying that you're town, but if you're scum then you did a hell of a job convincing him that you're town. Yes, I know it sounds like I'm speaking for someone who left, but it seems pretty clear what he's saying to me.

Also, I assume you mean Brin in regards to "lack of content", because through page 8, at least, askseis (sp) has a good amount of content.

[Voidedmafia]

The askesis / zenatsu arguing still looks like a giant townie vs townie argument. Askesis looks like town that's suffering from tunnel vision (in case you don't know what this is it's when you feel so completely right about a scumread that you focus on that even when your arguments are grasping at straws and not solid, as well as ignoring other possible scum). Zenatsu's posting so far has been consistent to me: what he's focusing on / his thought processes don't look like they come from the "I'm scum needing to mke people think I'm town" perspective.

That does kinda sum up Zen as of Page 11-13, really, and the ask vs. Zen argument as a whole (really, why hadn't he dropped it by then?).

I know you were V/LA during this, TA, but the lack of content only pushes you as the PoE lynch between you two.

Zen: That scum-o-meter sounded like a pain in the ass to update, but I think it might not be a bad idea to do another whirl of it for the two of us now.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: Oh, wait, no, you were V/LA. That just makes it worse, really.

Though, Zen does have a point about the post notifier. There's still benefit of the doubt for you, as you may have just pressed "end" constantly to get to the submit button or something (I've done that before when dealing with Fate-, kiwi-, or hindu-spam <_<), and I can accept that, but as I think you admit, it makes your explanation sound a lot less implausible.

Also, I think Pizza can be that lazy <_<

That's page 14, and it's nearly 6:30. Cya tomorrow.

[Voidedmafia]

Eh, I'll let you use those. They seem to work for ya, so...

Also, as of page 13/14, TA's recent post with a list of reads is good, though NurC brought up a minor point here:

Seems to want to disguise himself by not revealing meta. Could it be that he's a PR? Or just plain scum? I doubt he's vanilla.

I don't think you can deny that, to an outsider, that line does sound like rolefishing (which, if you've forgotten, is trying to overtly or covertly suss out potential PRs through wordings or phrases or such things, which is anti-town at best and incredibly scummy at worst). I see his point (even if he says later that he "might be reading too much into it"), but if I put through my head a few times it reads more like outward musing than rolefishing.

There's also the "Zigg and TA are singing each other's praises" part, but since Zigg is town that point is kinda moot. "Kinda" because you can still be scum, but it doesn't have the same bite as when he originally said it.

[Voidedmafia]

Must not comment about the innuendo in the parenthesis...damn, too late.

RE post notifier: eh, it's okay

RE lack of content: all right.

RE Brin: Eh...not really. I suppose it could be intepreted like that, but I personally don't see it.

[Voidedmafia]

TA's response to Ziggler RE his new doc claim: I don't like (though that's just because that's not what I'd do), but it also reads as townie. It's logical and all, which is why I think it has some townvibes, but I personally don't see how you could believe Ziggler on this thing.

Zen's response is effectively the same as mine would be (LYNCH IT WITH FIRE!), so I can't comment on it as my bias would be too much to really get anything out of it. But I do agree with Ray about how you responded to BB's wishy-washyness and called him out on it.

[Voidedmafia]

Ziggler's death didn't really change my opinions, but BB's sudden declaration of a Rubi/TA team without much buildup to TA-scum beforehand (unless I missed something) makes TA more townie. Even with the hindsight of knowing BB flipped town, this kind of attack doesn't make me think TA was scummy at all.

[Voidedmafia]

I think you mean cross-bus.

Haa...This is the kind of position that I hate to be in (doubly so because I've already had one game like this in Newbie 1067, I think), but I'ma just gonna live with it and work around it.

Re No Lynch: Given the state of the town at the time (Two scum alive, doc is dead, nearing a MyLo/Lylo situation), No Lynch is definitely NOT a good idea. Maybe if one scum was already dead or the doc was still alive, but in that state you want to avoid MyLo or Lylo as much as possible. I won't say it's scummy to suggest it, but it's certainly not worth townpoints.

Re 535: Just because you warn against voting someone shouldn't give townpoints in and of itself; I could warn you away from every town mislynch that happened, but that's no garauntee of lucky town or calculating scum. Wanting to lynch to get more info is a kinda-okay reason, but again, not townie in and of itself. I'll give you the townpoints for one of the two as a culmination, as both of those reasons together do have town sentiments to them, but not for both. Not strong enough for that.

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, I was town, and I can never remember all my Newbie games correctly <_< (Except 1060 and 1155, which were my first game and my best newbie scumgame, respectively). The point was, I've been here before, and I don't like it.

Also, did you forget you lynched your doc D1 in Ziggler?

[Voidedmafia]

*poke*

I never lose the poking game, Equi! muahahaha!

*ahem* anyways, for something contentful, BB v TA in regards to BB's comments about scum being one on/one off is okay, but is overall null because we do know now that at least one scum was on the D1 wagon (RayFrost), and if BB is correct in that regard, then the last scum must be you, TA. However, to allevate that, it could just as well be that Zen and Ray were riding the easy mislynch in Ziggler (thus having both scum on the wagon). Hell, it could even be me/Ray (it's obviously not FMPOV, but you get my point).

Zen's comment (and your agreement, TA) about BB "tripping over his own feet" would make sense if this was his first IC game (I'm not sure about that, though, and I'm too lazy to look, so), if that's not the case it's still rather spot-on in regards to BB's play up to that point.

Also, goddammit, Brin. -_-

[Voidedmafia]

But srs guys, cmon. I know it's LyLo, you both are getting exhausted after the crash, but staying away from the game won't make it end any sooner, so let's go.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, goddammit, Brin. -_-

Elaborate on this?

Didn't like his entry into the game at all.

*sigh* getting to a meaty portion here in D2 with Rubi, TA, and Zen, and my head's just not screwed on right, but I think I can still make something of it.

501 is wrong. Not so much because TA messed up his point, but because I just don't see it as that big a deal. ON THE OTHER HAND, while I do dislike voting off of gut-feels alone mid/late-game, I fail to see why the turnaround is wrong, or at least this particular turnaround, nor why him gut-voting in this instance is necessarily bad. I know that not all quick turnarounds are town, but they aren't all scummy either, and it reads like, "oh crap, I just completely mangled my read on him" rather than, "Oh crap, my attack failed and now I'll look scummy for it!". Also, gut-voting and trying to explain the gut-vote makes it a lot better than just voting off gut.

Dunno why Zen admitted he was doing horrible in 535. Slight scumpoints there.

Finally bit on 535: Hilarious in HIndsight based on the last line in the post.
His bashing of TA's case on Rubi is blunted by the misrepping he does in the next quote (or exaggeration, or w/e). There is a condition on there that hadn't been met at that point (that being that Pizza had to post nothing useful to switch), so if Rubi is his other suspicion (no matter what we think of his case), why is it necessarily a bad thing to vote based on it?

542, 2nd half: Because he's town in his eyes, thus voting him makes no sense from his view?

537: Uh, where were your other posts on Rubiscum again? I think there were some, but I don't have the time right now to go back through 20+ pages to find it (I only have enough time to compile this post, eat, MAYBE take a shower before I have to head to work), so if you could give post numbers or something that'd be helpful.

Zen, your lurking and Pizza's lurking are different because, while you have lurked, you've still been giving good content to work with. Pizza? Not so much. For the most part, lurking can be generally excused so long as you're still making an effort to bring content to the table when you do come to the surface, which you have done. Also, there's this from 540:

> Also, you said that you had a weird week, which I assumed was the reason for your lack of posting *recently*. Oppose this to pizza's lack of posting *in general*, and you will see why you didn't trigger my radar.

Brin's 544 was good stuff, coming from him, anyways.

And finally, good job calling out BB for his waffling again, Zen. This has been giving you townpoints for a bit, and to see that you're still pushing him on this subject is further enforcing those townpoints.

[Voidedmafia]

If I wanted damage control, it'd be better to be more subtle about.. Slightly WIFOM, but it is a lot better than yelling out, "I HATE MY PREDECESSOR!", don't you think?

As for how replacing in feels, it just depends. Sometimes you get to replace into good spots as town or scum where you just have to hope that you don't screw up what your predecessor did (like what Brin's apparantly failed to do for Askesis, or for a self-meta example, my replacing into Marketplace Mafia where my slot stayed pretty townie throughout the game). Sometimes you replace into an okay slot that isn't suspected but isn't lauded, or replacing early enough into a game that your predecessor's play doesn't have much of an effect (Newbie 1097, for example, where I replaced around page 5 and played for the rest of game and my predecessor didn't have much of a prescence; or the aforementioned Newibe 1155 where the person I replaced was roughly null to everyone else but I managed to pull off some excellent scumplay that was only marred by a bad choice to no-kill N2). And sometimes, you get games like this where you replace into spots where it's either nearly impossible or VERY hard to pull yourself out. (two biggest examples of mine are Newbie 1079 and Artemis Fowl Mafia) That's pretty much the range of feelings for replacing in, I'd say. [/rambling]

Also, Zen, could you answer the question I asked in my analysis of post 535? I suppose it's my fault for not making it clear I wanted it answered, but I do want to hear what you think.

Anyways, I guess I have time to bust out a couple more pages.

[Voidedmafia]

If you can point out any subtlety in any of that, I'll concede that was hypocritical.

Also, "reading post by post" is doing something, yknow. I'm building up my thoughts into cases for both of you, though it seems that it's going to boil down to a PoE-based vote than anything overtly scummy. My scumdar may just be broken beyond repair this game, or something, but I've been seeing enough town intent from both of you that any scummy things either of you have done have been relatively snuffed out. And I haven't agreed with everything, yknow.

Though, for wanting us to throw down votes, why not do so yourself?

[Voidedmafia]

Just reached the point in the game where people believed pizza would be most informative, and wow, I cannot believe how much grasping Ray is doing around page 24-26. I can really see why, despite pizza flipping town, his lynch was very prominent in getting Ray.

In other news, I hate being a procrastinator. Completely muddied my thoughts past page 23-ish. Actually, I would've voted by now if I wasn't completely caught up (and I am now). Now that I am, I can see a little sense in 826 of my own. Not that I'm going to spoil what that is specifically just yet, but let's see what happens. If I'm right, I think we can still win this. If I'm wrong, then gg.

Fate is in your hands, gentlemen. Now let's see how you pull the strings.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, Zen, yknow that spoilered stuff in 835? If you could, pretty please show me what's inside. Spoiler tags don't work in the text-only version of the cache (which it seems is what Equi took, the fool!)

[Voidedmafia]

Zen...Explain to me how exclaiming "Goddammit, Brin" is subtle damage control, again? You're making no sense here...

Also 424 doesn't talk about being sure of his townreads. That's talking more about why he believes Ziggler should be lynched.

TA: Did you miss where I said I finished reading?

P-EDIT: First option is of equal risk if the 3rd person has suspicions on both you and the other town, as his/her opinions could just as likely swing to you as to the town. It's safest for you if the 3rd person already suspected the other town already and, if you hadn't pressured the other town beforehand, doesn't suspect your sudden push (you can say that that wouldn't be a factor, but I'd still be wary of out-of-the-blue pushes that aren't a result of necessary re-reads), and obviously it's riskiest if the 3rd person suspects you more.

The 2nd option, as you did kinda say, is more risky. Sure, you can hope that the town argue enough that one votes the other, but they could realize that the other isn't town and then focus on you instead. Since you're almost in no way in control of the conversation, you're just hoping you're town enough of their eyes (or at least one's eyes) that you can get away.

Of course, both options have their places in games, but it would seem that the 2nd would be the option that would've been used earlier in the restart. However, as of now, the 1st option is a better choice. I mean, think about it if I'm not scum: the last scum is hoping that the other of you two doesn't find some towntell or townslip from me that would put me out of the lynch zone and then you'd be next via PoE, whereas if you either stuck with the 1st option or switched to it, even if I'm not the last scum you can still push me as being the last scum and potentially keep the other person from seeing that towntell/slip or whatever to make me town.

That does leave the question of which one is being used by scum nearer the restart and now, of course, which I'm not quite sure of just yet.

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, forgot about this.

> Brin's offensive style at the start of the day can be understood as scummy if we were to accept the premise that scum's best interest is to vote asap. What have you to say to that, Voided?

Actually, it isn't in their best interest to do that, imo. If another vote is already placed, then yes it is for the quickhammer and win, but if there's no votes to quickhammer off of, they're still in danger.

[Voidedmafia]

Ah, okay. Yes, that's very true. Though, that seems to be a null tell here since, as far as I can tell, none of us overly pushed for voting early on, and it's only happening now because the deadline is so close. If you think you can make something of it, more power to you, but I really don't see much use in trying to apply that.

[Voidedmafia]

Zen sees me scummier than you.

I see you scummier than Zen by PoE.

You see me scummier than Zen, last I checked. Shouldn't be that hard a choice -_-.

[Voidedmafia]

*much better player*

Well, I suppose over Brin, but, eh...

He does have a point, though: Having opinions IS content. It's not necessarily GOOD content, yes, but it's still content. I think he also walled up because he might've been thinking that since Zen wasn't even trying to take him seriously he just wasn't going to try, or something like that. It did look like he was going to come back at beginning of D4, but then he flaked after the restart, so who knows what would've happened.

Re 491: Depends on how good or bad the games were. Though, those games I mentioned are pretty much the only Newbie games whose numbers I directly remember (except my completed Newbie I modded and the one i'm doing now, 1194 (lost in the crash) and 1222 (post-crash)). THe rest are non-newbies, though, so I guess that's easier.

re slight scumread: Is is just a culmination of one-liners, or what? Also, Zen never did say how exactly that was in any way subtle.

[Voidedmafia]

Well, nevermind the fact that I think he did according the PM I got, but the point was that Brin didn't do himself any favors with his opening posts, and I quite bluntly stated as such. Yes, it's not as blatant as yelling "I HATE MY PREDECESSOR!" (though that's certainly implied) and obviously a bit more subtle than the latter, but to say that that was in any way a subtle attempt at damage control period feels way too much like mudslinging and misrepping. If I or anyone else wanted to go for subtle damage control, I would probably word my post a lot more tactfully and at least make the hate not be as evident.

That 2nd sentence confuses me a little, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Though, I'd trust Zen would let me argue against anything else he had to say before hammering me. Scumread or no, I should still get to have my say before you make me sway, no? (cwutIdidthar?)

[Voidedmafia]

...Well, fine, I'll just say it anyways.

I HATE MY PREDECESSORS!!

...Actually, that felt pretty good. Who knew?

Though, out of curiousity, let's say I replaced Zen instead of Brin. Assuming my play, reads and posts up to this point were generally the same, and I had still made that comment (though obviously it wouldn't be about something at the beginning since you two are the only two left from the original start), what would you think about me then?

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, I just figured something. Vote zen for now. You can change it later after the VC reflects the vote (though I'd prefer not right after, of course), but I'd just like you to vote Zen for the night.

"But VM, why are you suddenly asking him to change his vote now, of all times? You look so scummy right now!" Yes, yes, I know, I know. But really, assuming Zen stays on for most of today, this game will be over by then, and if TA is town and wants to win, this is his chance.

Besides, if you ARE scum, TA, you can just quickhammer after Zen votes me, so it shoulnd't be any loss to you either way.

[Voidedmafia]

"But Voided, aren't you just trying to save your own neck?!" (and threatening to start spamposting <_<). I don't care about saving my neck right now. That was no longer a goal after my catch-up was finish, and as it stands I'm going to get lynched anyways if I don't try this (or even if I do). My goal now is to win this game for the town, and I think this will work.

What say you, TA?

[Voidedmafia]

And you better not have just gone to bed -_-.

[Voidedmafia]

I understand your worries of a quickhammer, but I do feel this is largely a win-win for you.

A.) You can ignore my plan, revote me, and let Zen hammer me like I imagine he intends to do, and whichever of you is scum can ride away with the victory

OR

B.) You vote him, wait a day-ish (or at least until you know I'm here and I've looked at the thread), and then revote me after that. Again, Zen's still probably gonna vote me when he gets up anyways, and if you're scum you can then just quickhammer me to oblivion, and Zen can't do any shenanigans if he's scum since I'm not voting and your vote's on him.

Pretty clear-cut, but if you want me to prove my towniness, this is a plan that, while risky, will win us the game. 'Course, it all boils down to if you trust me or not, but meh.

In fact, I'm extending this to both of you. Hell, cross-vote if you want to. No matter what, this game ends today, so it just depends on how you want it to go.

So, like I said: Fate is in your hands, Zenatsu, ThursdayAngel.

[Voidedmafia]

I mean, if you can point out where either you-scum or Zen-scum lose outside of the reward I'm expecting from this (because the reward is obviously something that will be the death of scum), then by all means do so while we're both awake and coherent.

[Voidedmafia]

I'd love to tell details, but I don't want to give too much away. Some plans sadly must rest on the willing unknowning of the people carrying it out. (though the voidedtown leap is obviously a factor). I will say it's a very strong towntell that I admittedly learned in two of my scumgames (and unknowningly used in one of them), which is about as much of a hint as I'm willing to give.

And yes, it does require a Zen vote from you (or for him to vote you, either way). It could be any other way (Zen and I cross-voting, you and me cross-voting), but I only know what my alignment is, and this will prove it.

[Voidedmafia]

Thank you.

Now that that's out of the way, now I have to figure out who to vote between the two of you, dammit!

[Voidedmafia]

(PS: You can unvote now)

[Voidedmafia]

Tl;DR I'm conftown now. The drawn-out explanation will come later, don't worry. (though, you can revote Zen if you want since he's now scum by PoE to you)

[Voidedmafia]

Zen better get his ass here and post today, that's for sure.

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, that wasn't anywhere close to WIFOM, Zen. I only said I was because what happened proved it.

Still, I guess I was on the right track with my PoE, huh?

[Voidedmafia]

anywho, explainin' time.

HOKAY, EXPLAININ' TIME! (here's hoping I don't trip over myself)

See, if I was really scum, naturally I would've voted to end the game right then and there because there's no point in dragging the game on any longer than necessary as scum as it increases your risk of being caught in something and thus lynched. Thus, NOT doing so practically confirms that person as town. (I'm aware that there may be games in the past where scum have not quickhammered immediately and have won, but I think that's the exception rather than the norm and doesn't take away from the strength of the tell).

I originally "learned" of the tell here in Newbie 1159, my 2nd scumgame on this site (and 3rd game I'd ever played). I say that in quotes because at the time I didn't know about the tell nor that it was even being applied (and admittedly yabbaguy was seen as town enough already that it may not have been needed), but all the same it did pretty much make him the last conftown in the game

The second place I had it used (where I actually learned what the tell was and thus realized that I had used it before in 1159) was in Double Vote Mafia, which I also replaced into and was scum. Unfortunately, the unveiling of the tell is lost to the data of the restart (though I could probably find the pages if I cared to search for them), but I was berated heavily for saying that I still suspected Christine (one of the townies) after Nobody Special and I cross-voted and she didn't immediately quickhammer either of us to end the game. Basically, the lack of the quckhammer made her conftown.

Like I said, scum COULD pull this ruse to WIFOM the last two town, but unless you're REALLY good scum (or just want to be a dick, which I wouldn't do ever unless I really hated one of you two for some reason) I fail to see why it'd be better than quickhammering and ending the game. Hence why it makes the person effectively conftown.

[Voidedmafia]

You don't know that...:p I've had a perfect scumgame once in a newbie and I'd love to make it two. (still looking for the perfect towngame, though).

Though, as scum you can still pull this ruse to make sure that the person you want to have the deciding vote is conftown.

As for me pulling such a stunt, it was largely desperation more than anything. What I said about not caring about me looking any better was true, so I was focusing on how I and the last town could win this game rather than how I was going to keep you two from voting me.

All in all, though, good scumgame, TA. Just be lucky I didn't vote you in the end, eh?

P-EDIT: You via PoE.

[Voidedmafia]

Like I said throughout my reread, Zen had been making townier posts and less scummier posts than you even though both of you were doing that, so my vote would've fallen on you today when I had the time to think.

Though, I will admit that I was completely terrified that I was throwing in a huge load of confirmation bias toward Zen throughout this, which was threatening to prevent me from voting at ALL. I think, at the end, I could've gone through with the vote, but I guess we'll never know.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah, he is good scum. Incidentally, he was my teammate in that perfect win (though we'll both tell you I didn't exactly enjoy that game; fuckin' town quickhammers <_<).

*the more you know...!*

THough, at the end of things, I'm still not sure if I should've posted that explanation before I went to bed. While I suppose it could've avoided what just happened, I didn't want to clue either of you in to what was going on any more than necessary in case either of you did catch what was going on and were scum. Unnecessary caution, perhaps, but eh...

P-EDIT: Well, aren't you a lucky chap, then?

[Voidedmafia]

Preiew-edit When you see a post via it notifying you that someone posted before you did, and adding stuff to you post to accomdate/address/w/e that post.

And eh, I don't know...it might've stopped him from voting for a couple posts (at least long enough for me to say something in-game).

[Voidedmafia]

Went about as well as I expected, consdidering I've been in this position before. At least this time I still had a sliver of a chance to escape (and am experienced enough to have had the potential to do it). Sucks that my plan pretty much backfired.

[Voidedmafia]

Nah, you did good, Zen.

BB: Yeah, I figured that out near the end of the read-through. Since it seemed that at the end of the day I wasn't going to entirely escape Brin, so I decided to focus instead on winning instead of not getting voted.

Also, totally predicted TA would quickhammer after Zen. Totally

[Voidedmafia]

Arrrr, cursed real life, must ye take us away from the things we love?!

[Voidedmafia]

Basically, it's saying that your predecessor is scummy, something like that.

Hang on a sec.

[Voidedmafia]

For those of you that don't know what's going on; I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum. This is a refinement from what I had it (if you read your replacement at all you were scum); but this seems to cover all the instances where I've seen/remember it. If you're town, you really don't have to worry about your predecessor as you know they're town; but if you think that they're scummy; then you're scum. As town, you know that you're not scummy and don't deserve criticism at all.

Quite frankly it's a shit tell on a general and personal level IMO because A.) town players can and probably will still criticize their predecessors as much as scum, which defeats the purpose of it being a scumtell, and B.)Personally, I don't care if I'm town or scum, if I see something to criticize, I will criticize no matter my role. Obviously it won't be in a way to undermine my wincon for my team, but you get my point.

I don't deny that it's worked before (though it definitely is better than the original where talking about your replacment was the scumtell), but I have very little faith and trust in it's accuracy to view it as a viable scumtell to be used against anyone.

[Voidedmafia]

Already did, BB. *smiles*

Anyways, guys, I did enjoy this, even if I"m still irked that this was a game that we should've. I'd like to play with both of you again, so just keep an eye out for my name on the SE list so we can be in a game together sometime!