Mini 332 - Camp Scum Lake - Mod Abandoned

[B Rob]

Random

Vote: TB

[B Rob]

The mindless bickering between Varian and Rosso Carne isn't helping.

FOS

both of you.

[B Rob]

Unvote Vote: Twito

who has posted twice the entire game. (Well, it should be considered one post, since one is right after the other.)

[B Rob]

Unvote Vote: Twito

who has posted twice the entire game. (Well, it should be considered one post, since one is right after the other.)

Pot, meet Kettle.

You've only posted 3 times, including that one.

I don't mind being accused of being inactive when I am, but I don't want others who are inactive to go unnoticed.

Unvote

as the purpose was served.

Right now my biggest suspect is Maverick. I'll have some time to post more detail later, but I honestly can't right now.

[B Rob]

Alright,

Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird

You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

You said it yourself, it's day one and there isn't much to go on. I don't see this from ChannelDelibird, and even if I did I wouldn't call this behavior scummy so early in the game.

Finally some good discussion. I've been overly aggressive the entire game on purpose and nobody, until now has noticed.. or at least said anything about it. All I'm trying to do is to start conversation that will actually lead to something, not trying to make myself suspicious.

As of now, I'm happy with my vote on ChannelDelibird, because I still say that he's trying too hard to cover something. He may not be scum, but from all we have to go by, in my opinion he is the most suspicious.

This is the post that makes Maverick suspicious to me. Overly aggressive? I think you're trying to paint yourself as something you aren't in order to get away with a little more then you ordinarily would.

Vote: Maverick

[B Rob]

As for t3h actual content. Serinah's actions through the game have been odd to me. I have some suspiscions as to who her partner may be if she turns out scum.

2 or 3 people have illustrated scummy behavior while trying to distance themselves from Serinah.

Who are these two or three people?

[B Rob]

I think it are Maverick, Channelbird and maybe Rosso Carne as well, just look back in the thread, it's all in page 2..

Thank you, but I want Rosso Carne's answer.

[B Rob]

B Rob makes his first post. Right away he fosses both Varian and Rosso saying that conversation is useless. Imo that has given some nice info.

ChannelDelibird unvotes Serinah80 as he notices that wagon didn’t catch fire. Doesn’t really give any reason as to why he unvotes.
Then agrees with B Rob hoping that ppl ignore the whole conversation.

The fight between Varian and Rosso Carne could have resulted in a miss lynch if it was allowed to continue, which would be bad for the town. Fights like these occur because sometimes players don't get along, not because they are scum. I'd rather not give scum an easy lynch, thankyouverymuch.

As interest againts earlier suspects has fallen B Rob now tries to direct the conversation on me with kinda shit reasons since he blames me for only posting 2 times and he himself has only posted 2 times.

Both of my posts had content (a random vote, and an attempt to prevent a day one miss lynch). Your posts consisted of a random vote and this:

Hehe.. I actually got Varian by random and he is already voting me
This has to mean something

I voted for Twito because I'm tired of scum sitting out of the game while the town votes for itself. Yes, I'll lurk sometimes, but I make a sincere effort to help the town when I post. Up until his summary of the game, Twito had done very little. Eh, maybe it was a little early to vote for that reason, but I'll stand by it just the same.

First of all, @ BRob, I feel its better kept for now, and if you're going to hold it against me, just know that (assuming a supposed setup of 3 scum) the other pairs (assuming serinah turns up scum) are different dependent on later information. So with all these dependent variables, giving scum an out like that is a bad idea.

If you are referring to the two or three players you mentioned without giving their names, then here is my reasoning: if you are protown, I would think you would give those names right away rather then putting out a nebulous "two or three people." I think you would only do that if you wanted a townie to prompt you with that information without coming up with an original answer. You could then just agree with said townie, allowing you and your scum buddies to lynch someone that the townie mentions.

B Rob, your logic makes no since. You are throwing around your opinion in the most random ways.. it seems that you are just going by the quickest thing you can find. You were first a hypocrit and voted twito for the same thing you had done, then later basically said "Oh the point was served, just wanted him to post" and found the first other option you saw and said oh I think I'll vote maverick. So random. That's a little scummy in my opinion, but my votes stays because the more ChannelDelibird talks the more I find him suspicious.

No, I've been very clear with my opinion, actually. I voted Twito because I believed he was lurking. I then voted you because you said you were being overly aggressive on purpose, but I don't believe you were being very aggressive at all but said you were in order to give yourself a little breathing room whenever you actually did start being aggressive.

B Rob looks to be taking the easy way out with the lurker wagon but is in reality not helping the town because he did not even notice I had not said anything.

Up until now, you hadn't posted at all, and I didn't notice you. I fingered Twito because I noticed him while I was reading the thread, went back to read it again, and realized that he had posted very little in terms of content.

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

I say we give Maverick what he wants and lynch him.

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

And your right Erotomachia, random arguements arn't helpful, that's why I wanted to change the subject from arguing over the meaning of a name to everyone having something to talk about. Right now all we are doing is gathering information, most of you are focusing on me, but at the same time your reading everyone else's opinions and gathering information on other people whether you realize it or not.

Right now, I'd say we're doing very well for Day 1 as far as information goes.

I agree, this has been a good Day 1. Actually, this post makes you sound very protown to me, but I still think we should lynch someone when they are literally asking for it. Otherwise, we could have scum say the same thing and get away with it.

After proofreading this post, I realized that early on I tried to prevent a miss lynch, and may now be advocating a miss lynch. I just don't think we should let someone go when they ask to be lynched.

[B Rob]

Maverick, if you weren't seeking your own lynch, then you should be more clear about it. This post is about as clear as mud:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

This is what you say in the following order:
1) Lynch me because then you'll see my alignment.
2) You shouldn't lynch me.
3) Lynching me may not help you find any scum.
4) Lynching me would reduce the number of players, which would help you find scum.

Then you post this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

It really seems like you want to be lynched.

Hmm... after reading his posts again, I think Maverick is town. As for weather or not he was asking to be lynched, I think it's debatable at best. I'm going to

Unvote: Maverick

[B Rob]

Wow, and we find another victim of "Oh fuck, someone suspects me, I better unvote" syndrome. Honestly, this is time and time again classic IE scumtell. Add in the fact that You seem to be backing but not overall connecting to serinah, and BRob definitely has scummy on him.

Vote:BRob

Rip him appart? Come on, you make is sound like there's that much to go on! I had a little more time to think over it, and I've decided that he's probably protown. He really wasn't asking to be lynched, that was a misinterpretation on my part. Note: Channel Delibird seemed to buy into my misinterpretation. I unvoted him because I think he is protown. Shouldn't we lynch scum?

And how am I linked to serinah? I haven't mentioned her at all, nor has she mentioned me. It sounds like you are trying to establish a potential scum pair that you can point to.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Varian, you believed that Maverick was protown. Proof:

Well, I've just got to say that this sure is a change - usually I'm the one whose labelled as being too aggressive.

However, because of this, I think it would be a bad idea to lynch Maverick.

I've never seen aggressiveness to be scummy, and I actually agree with him about B Rob. Though its somewhat metagaming in that I'm in another game with him, and that point-by-point post seems out of character for him.

So, I'm going to:

Unvote: Rosso Carne

Vote: B Rob

Am I not allowed to unvote and change my mind after further reflection, or damned to lynch him? Since you initially voted me for suspecting Maverick and using sound reason to support my actions, but now that I've changed my stance, I am equally scummy. This is a trap set by scum.

FOS: Varian

[B Rob]

So you give us a thorough analysis of how Maverick contradicts himself, and then you proceed to unvote? That doesn't make any sense. If you think he's scummy, keep your vote on him.

FOS: B Rob

I didn't vote Maverick because I thought he was scummy. I voted him because I wrongly believed that he was asking to be lynched. Proof:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

I say we give Maverick what he wants and lynch him.

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

And your right Erotomachia, random arguements arn't helpful, that's why I wanted to change the subject from arguing over the meaning of a name to everyone having something to talk about. Right now all we are doing is gathering information, most of you are focusing on me, but at the same time your reading everyone else's opinions and gathering information on other people whether you realize it or not.

Right now, I'd say we're doing very well for Day 1 as far as information goes.

I agree, this has been a good Day 1.

Actually, this post makes you sound very protown to me, but I still think we should lynch someone when they are literally asking for it. Otherwise, we could have scum say the same thing and get away with it.

After proofreading this post, I realized that early on I tried to prevent a miss lynch, and may now be advocating a miss lynch. I just don't think we should let someone go when they ask to be lynched.

Turns out, he was never actually asking to be lynched. Shouldn't we be trying to lynch scum rather then lynch a townie who's words were misinterpreted?

[B Rob]

And how am I linked to serinah? I haven't mentioned her at all, nor has she mentioned me. It sounds like you are trying to establish a potential scum pair that you can point to.

Vote: Rosso Carne

I say youre actions are linked as it seems that you're voting/suspiscion record are practically the same, as well as your "oh fuck..." behaviors (guess I'll be writing that a lot this game).

If I was scum, I would pay closer attention to what others were finding scummy and would avoid duplicating that behavior.

on top of this, I feel your vote is slightly OMGUS.

So? Maverick did the same thing to me, and you said nothing.

[B Rob]

How many votes did I have on me when I unvoted Maverick? Two? Perhaps three? That's not even half way to a lynch, so why on earth would I freak out and unvote so people would back off when I wasn't even close to being lynched?

I origionally voted Maverick because I thought he was asking to be lynched, but I misinterpreted what he said. After a reread, I realized I made a mistake and unvoted. How exactly is that scummy?

[B Rob]

Even if he

did

ask to be lynch, how is it any manner of productive to actually do it if you don't think he's scum?

You're digging yourself a bigger hole.

I'm a bit too tired to say much more, so I'll post it tomorrow.

I don't know why I didn't respond to this before, but I will now.

If someone asks to be lynched, I think we should just lynch them. Why? Because scum could use such a tactic to make them seem protown. Townies don't have a good reason to want to be lynched, since we would be one step closer to loosing, and I don't see why any player would want to be lynched since they couldn't play anymore if they were dead.

It's a metagame policy similar to Lynch All Liars that is intended to discourage bad play. So far, I've only seen newbies ask to be lynched, and it never works out.

[B Rob]

If someone asks to be lynched, ignore that, and judge them based on other things. For instance, if I was getting attacked from all sides, even if I was town, sooner or later, if my defense kept failing, I would just be like "Fine, lynch me then." Its a sign of frustration, and that is no where near the level of LAL.

That sounds more like an admission of defeat then a sign of frustration. But that's semantics.

Its not that hard to ignore a "Fine, lynch me" comment and make a vote based on everything else aside from it. If they

are

scum, chances are they'll have more scummy indicators than just that.

What are Maverick's other scummy indicators? Remember, you are voting for me because I unvoted Maverick.

Honestly, this is a matter of opinion, and if you want to lynch me over my idea, then you need to rethink your standards.

Unvote: Rosso Carne Vote: Varian

I think either or both of them could be scum. Varian seems the scummiest at this point.

[B Rob]

I haven't posted because I'm working on a long analytical post. I should be done by later tonight. If you lynch me before then, then town deserves to lose.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

No.

Day 1 roleclaims only benefit scum.

[B Rob]

I'm at 6.

Seriously, gimme until tomorrow to post before you hammer me, please.

[B Rob]

Since there is so much to go over, I'm going to post a summary of day 1, then an analysis of each player. (Well, most of them. Some have lurked so much, there isn't anything to talk about.)

Day 1 Summary

(so far)

First, Rosso Carne and Varian get into an argument.

unvote, vote:varian

for thinking im stupid enough not to open freaking wikipedia.

unvote, vote:varian

for thinking im stupid enough not to open freaking wikipedia.

Um... huh?

That wasn't even directed at you, Mr Brilliance.

You weren't even involved in the conversation about maverick having to do with knives. Not even mentioning the fact that a usually denotes a joke.

Unless you've got 2 accounts in the same game?

Unvote, Vote: Rosso Carne

for being incredibly and wrongly touchy.

confirm vote: varian

Yeah, I think explosions in the face of a vote, esp against an obvious jerk is a definite scum tell.

This results in a three vote bandwagon, consisting of Yellowbounder's random vote, Varian's reaction vote, and serinah80's vote:

unvote
vote

Rosso Carne

If Varian over reacted, then Rosso started it by being agressive.
Acting like a jerk means acting like a scum in my book. Especially so early in the game...

(note: I didn't say he was a jerk, I said he acted like it.)

8)

I didn't notice this before, (boy, I'm gonna get crucified for saying that) but Maverick then voted for serinah80 for curious reasons:

This is such a weird arguement, but I guess it is only Day 1, we don't have much to go by except explosions about name definitions.

Vote:Serinah80

for adding the third vote on Rosso without good reason, and for voting me earlier.

Channel Delibird votes serinah80 for the same reason:

Anyway, there was no need to put three on Rosso Carne yet.

Vote: Serinah80

I don't see why Rosso Carne should have any votes yet anyway.

This bandwagon didn't go anywhere because Varian ensured he and Rosso Carne were the center of attention:

heh, I like how

I'm

the one who over reacted.

By calling him Mr. Brilliance (because, you know, he said he wasn't stupid), when he basically jumped into a conversation he wasn't a part of and acted like a jerk.

I didn't explode, I was amused that someone could so easily find something not even directed in their vicinity as offensive.

Rosso attempted to explain himself, but Varain tried to egg him on:

with all due respect, it is page 2.

And yes you overreacted. I'm a part of this conversation based on the fact that I'm a part of this game. If you can't take random voting without exploding, whats the point of it.

with all due respect, it is page 2.

And yes you overreacted. I'm a part of this conversation based on the fact that I'm a part of this game. If you can't take random voting without exploding, whats the point of it.

That is the most retarded thing i've ever heard.

That's like saying little children should be involved in all discussions their parents have, because hey, they're part of the family.

Two people had made comments about the word maverick, you were not one of them. Why on earth would my comment be directed, in any way, at you?

I still find it funny; this is one of the most amusing start-games i've been a part of.

Oh, and I like how you called it "random voting", except, it was after you had cast a random vote... and you attached a reason to it... me thinks that makes it defy the definition of random.

Do we need another vocabulary lesson? This time it

can

be directed at you.

They were both being jerks, but Varain has been worse in my opinion.

Since I'm rereading now, I can't help but notice this:

Alright,

Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird

You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

I never really found Serinah suspicious, just the fact that there was an arguement about nothing and she voted because of it.

As for Rosso Carne, I don't feel any need to vote him due to two random votes because that is weird but not lynch worthy..

On the contrary, I had a reason to vote for Serinah, but I realised it was a bad one and unvoted.

It's also a little difficult to add more into the discussion while there is so little to go on. All we have is a pointless argument about something that has no relevance, and I have already said that I don't feel we can draw anything from that. Also, I don't understand your point about 'a desperate attempt to get the finger off of myself'. As far as I could tell there was nobody pointing the finger of suspicion at me.

Isn't there another player who did the same thing, gave a similar explination, and was bandwagoned for it? (For those of you who can't figure it out, I'm talking about myself here.)

Moving on, I voted Twito for lurking. This wasn't a bad idea, but there were about five players (including myself) who deserved this vote at the time, and maybe it was too early. However, 16 minutes after I posted, Twito responded.

Well I'm here. Just hadn't had time to read through topic so I haven't posted. I wanna have base on my votes or I just stick with random.

My testweek is ending so I should have time to go through everything soon enough.

That's pretty miraculous, since he hadn't had time to read through a two and a half page thread, yet he's paying close attention whenever his name is mentioned.

Rosso Carne returns with this post:

Sorry I havent been on in a bit.

Just to end this, I like getting into an argument and be a jerk D1, as its the only way to get any information out of anyone. I didnt want to start a major bicker contest, but explosions on D1 have always helped in later days. And no one take any true offense to this, but if you think I'm bad, don't even think about playing with some others *cough*BJ*cough*AniX*cough*

As for t3h actual content. Serinah's actions through the game have been odd to me. I have some suspiscions as to who her partner may be if she turns out scum. 2 or 3 people have illustrated scummy behavior while trying to distance themselves from Serinah.

and btw

!list

and

aud: can we get a prod on warpdragon

as he hasnt checked in.

I brought it up before, but I think it's worth repeating: Rosso Carne mentions two or three people who distanced themselves from serinah80, but doesn't mention who they are. This is scummy because he doesn't have to provide his own information, he can just wait for a townie to prompt him with the answers. TB did it for him.

I agree with ChannelDelibird's post here:

Finally some good discussion. I've been overly aggressive the entire game on purpose and nobody, until now has noticed.. or at least said anything about it. All I'm trying to do is to start conversation that will actually lead to something, not trying to make myself suspicious.

I'm not sure I buy that. Just as people seem to be a little suspicious you've quickly tried to make your earlier approach to the game seem like a clever ploy.

FoS: Maverick

As of now, I'm happy with my vote on ChannelDelibird, because I still say that he's trying too hard to cover something.

He may not be scum,

but from all we have to go by, in my opinion he is the most suspicious.

Oh and Serinah80, just so you know you didn't bold your unvote so the mod won't get it.

Bolding mine.

Surely this is a contradiction. You think I'm trying to cover something up but you think I might not be scum - either it's one or the other, as a pro-town player has no need to cover-up. I really think you're trying to make something out of nothing here. And you certainly shouldn't be voting for me if you don't think I'm scum. I'm not going to vote yet though.

This is Maverick's scummiest behavior so far. It might have just been misinterpreted, I'm not sure. Since I've been rereading, I'm starting to think Maverick is scummy again.

Rosso Carne first completely over reacted and replied something that made no sence since what Varian had said had nothing to do with him. He even votes based on this completely made up evidence. Then Varian pointed this out and (counter?)voted Rosso Carne for acting like moron.

Rosso counter confirmvoted after that which is a scum tell to me.

Then ChannelDelibird fosses Varian for over reacting even though Rosso had first agressively over reacted.

serinah80 points out Rossos behavior and votes him.
Maverick votes serinah saying that serinah didn’t give argument againts Rosso when he voted even though he did.

Looks like Maverick is trying to re-direct the conversation away from Rosso.

ChannelDelibird hops on serinah wagon.

Rosso unvotes his confirmed vote and fosses serinah for trying to start an early bandwagon on crap data even though there is currently an attempt to start wagon on serinah with worse data. Since when is placing the 3rd vote when it takes 7 so horrible?

B Rob makes his first post. Right away he fosses both Varian and Rosso saying that conversation is useless. Imo that has given some nice info.

(Second post, actually. And how is that nice info?)

ChannelDelibird unvotes Serinah80 as he notices that wagon didn’t catch fire. Doesn’t really give any reason as to why he unvotes.

Then agrees with B Rob hoping that ppl ignore the whole conversation.

(This implies a relationship that doesn't exist.)

Maverick Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird. No reason given for Serinah unvote other than the vote on ChannelDelibird

which imo has some good points.

(What? Being terribly vague here.)

Serinah now unvotes Rosso Crane and fosses Maverick.

As interest againts earlier suspects has fallen

B Rob now tries to direct the conversation on me with kinda shit reasons since he blames me for only posting 2 times and he himself has only posted 2 times.

(Fair enough.)

Based on that:

Vote ChannelDelibird

and fosses on many others.

This is a good summary posted by Twito. I agree with many things said here (bolded), but I disagree with other things (italic). Overall, I would say Twito is protown, but I can't say for certain since Twito has given so little content.

I put a little suspicion on Maverick and Erotomachia agrees, so Maverick responds:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

The Maverick wagon develops:

first of all,

unvote

as we're pretty much done with the random voting.

Now that i've had some more time to look through the thread, i came to the following conclusion:

Finally some good discussion. I've been overly aggressive the entire game on purpose and nobody, until now has noticed.. or at least said anything about it. All I'm trying to do is to start conversation that will actually lead to something, not trying to make myself suspicious.

This could also be worded as: "Oh dear, perhaps i've been a bit too aggresive early game, I better come up with a poor explanation so my scummy ass won't be lynched today" 8)

Maverick has been acting aggresive, and as soon as he gets a FOS from someone he backs off, that is very suspicious in my opinion, so I think a

vote: Maverick

is justified.

Rewording is a distortive tactic, btw.

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

No, it wouldn't, because it would seem entirely reasonable to

everyone

to lynch you.

The point is that you're being overly aggressive against everyone "just to encourage discussion." That's not a good thing: random arguments aren't helpful at all.

FOS: Maverick

Let me just add: in my first newbie game I did the same thing as Maverick. I made up arguments against a random person just to have something to say. And boy did I get punished--I got lynched day 1!

Incidently, I was scum that game...

Maverick fuels his own wagon with this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

And your right Erotomachia, random arguements arn't helpful, that's why I wanted to change the subject from arguing over the meaning of a name to everyone having something to talk about. Right now all we are doing is gathering information, most of you are focusing on me, but at the same time your reading everyone else's opinions and gathering information on other people whether you realize it or not.

Right now, I'd say we're doing very well for Day 1 as far as information goes.

This is hardly a defense. I'm not sure if it's scummy or not, since he's not going out on a limb to defend himself (protown), yet he is focusing on himself and not presenting any analysis or opinion (antitown). Just for the record, I agree that this has been a very good Day 1.

Then I make my first long post. Varian has attempted to distort what I said here several times, so I'm going to post my comentary on what I posted.

B Rob makes his first post. Right away he fosses both Varian and Rosso saying that conversation is useless. Imo that has given some nice info.

ChannelDelibird unvotes Serinah80 as he notices that wagon didn’t catch fire. Doesn’t really give any reason as to why he unvotes.
Then agrees with B Rob hoping that ppl ignore the whole conversation.

The fight between Varian and Rosso Carne could have resulted in a miss lynch if it was allowed to continue, which would be bad for the town. Fights like these occur because sometimes players don't get along, not because they are scum. I'd rather not give scum an easy lynch, thankyouverymuch.

Sometimes scum players don't get along either.

As interest againts earlier suspects has fallen B Rob now tries to direct the conversation on me with kinda shit reasons since he blames me for only posting 2 times and he himself has only posted 2 times.

Both of my posts had content (a random vote, and an attempt to prevent a day one miss lynch). Your posts consisted of a random vote and this:

Hehe.. I actually got Varian by random and he is already voting me
This has to mean something

I voted for Twito because I'm tired of scum sitting out of the game while the town votes for itself. Yes, I'll lurk sometimes, but I make a sincere effort to help the town when I post. Up until his summary of the game, Twito had done very little. Eh, maybe it was a little early to vote for that reason, but I'll stand by it just the same.

First of all, @ BRob, I feel its better kept for now, and if you're going to hold it against me, just know that (assuming a supposed setup of 3 scum) the other pairs (assuming serinah turns up scum) are different dependent on later information. So with all these dependent variables, giving scum an out like that is a bad idea.

If you are referring to the two or three players you mentioned without giving their names, then here is my reasoning: if you are protown, I would think you would give those names right away rather then putting out a nebulous "two or three people." I think you would only do that if you wanted a townie to prompt you with that information without coming up with an original answer. You could then just agree with said townie, allowing you and your scum buddies to lynch someone that the townie mentions.

Also, if these players were distancing themselves from serinah80, then that implies a relationship between them. Telling us who those people are tells us what relationships you think are possible. Withholding this information is scummy!

B Rob, your logic makes no since. You are throwing around your opinion in the most random ways.. it seems that you are just going by the quickest thing you can find. You were first a hypocrit and voted twito for the same thing you had done, then later basically said "Oh the point was served, just wanted him to post" and found the first other option you saw and said oh I think I'll vote maverick. So random. That's a little scummy in my opinion, but my votes stays because the more ChannelDelibird talks the more I find him suspicious.

No, I've been very clear with my opinion, actually. I voted Twito because I believed he was lurking. I then voted you because you said you were being overly aggressive on purpose, but I don't believe you were being very aggressive at all but said you were in order to give yourself a little breathing room whenever you actually did start being aggressive.

B Rob looks to be taking the easy way out with the lurker wagon but is in reality not helping the town because he did not even notice I had not said anything.

Up until now, you hadn't posted at all, and I didn't notice you. I fingered Twito because I noticed him while I was reading the thread, went back to read it again, and realized that he had posted very little in terms of content.

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

I say we give Maverick what he wants and lynch him.

Mistake.

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

And your right Erotomachia, random arguements arn't helpful, that's why I wanted to change the subject from arguing over the meaning of a name to everyone having something to talk about. Right now all we are doing is gathering information, most of you are focusing on me, but at the same time your reading everyone else's opinions and gathering information on other people whether you realize it or not.

Right now, I'd say we're doing very well for Day 1 as far as information goes.

I agree, this has been a good Day 1. Actually, this post makes you sound very protown to me, but I still think we should lynch someone when they are literally asking for it. Otherwise, we could have scum say the same thing and get away with it.

This was the truth at the time, but was conviniently forgotten by those on my bandwagon. I voted Maverick thinking that if he was as scummy as I thought he was, other townies would notice and vote. This was a bad idea, obviously.

After proofreading this post, I realized that early on I tried to prevent a miss lynch, and may now be advocating a miss lynch. I just don't think we should let someone go when they ask to be lynched.

Varain has stated twice that I "shredded" Maverick in this post, when I only mentioned Maverick half the time and clearly stated that I thought Maverick might have been protown.

Also, I'm not the only player who thought Maverick was asking to be lynched:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

And your right Erotomachia, random arguements arn't helpful, that's why I wanted to change the subject from arguing over the meaning of a name to everyone having something to talk about. Right now all we are doing is gathering information, most of you are focusing on me, but at the same time your reading everyone else's opinions and gathering information on other people whether you realize it or not.

Right now, I'd say we're doing very well for Day 1 as far as information goes.

This post is seriously worrying me. If you were pro-town, and you thought your arguments were helping the town to find scum, then

why would you advocate us lynching you?

I would only expect a pro-town player who didn't feel they were helping so much to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. You're certainly not in this category because you think you're doing good things for the town - as evidenced by your statement that this has been a good Day 1. I think you're trying to make us think you're too valuable to lynch. I've seen enough to

vote: Maverick

If you are town, Maverick, it's not helpful that you ask to get lynched. I happens too damn often that newbie townies ask to get lynched town does what they ask for and wastes a townie.
If you feel like you don't have time to defend yourself rather ask to be replaced.
Oh yeah and just coz you are talking all this sacraficing bullshit doesn't mean I'm not suspicious of you anymore since I am.

Then Maverick posts this OMGUS vote:

Actually I don't recall ever asking to be lynched, all I said is that if you don't believe that I'm town I can't convince you so the only way to find out for sure is to lynch me. I guess that means "Lynch me please", because that's how your taking it.

Also

Unvote: ChannelDelibird, Vote: B Rob

Because BRob is playing one of the weirdest games I've seen.. he starts off saying hardly anything and somewhat lurking as to cover something. Then he votes someone else for the same reason and when someone notices he unvotes and starts talking a lot, and now seems to be taking the easiest bandwagon possible "The guy 'asking' to be lynched". ChannelDelibird quickly follows, not to say they started the wagon but they definately have made it an official wagon. Right now you two are the most suspicious to me.

Looking back, I do not believe that Maverick was ever asking to be lynched.

Then Varian votes me for providing analysis, a protown act:

Well, I've just got to say that this sure is a change - usually I'm the one whose labelled as being too aggressive.

However, because of this, I think it would be a bad idea to lynch Maverick. I've never seen aggressiveness to be scummy, and I actually agree with him about B Rob. Though its somewhat metagaming in that I'm in another game with him, and that point-by-point post seems out of character for him.

So, I'm going to:

Unvote: Rosso Carne

Vote: B Rob

This was Varian's second mistake (the first being the argument with Rosso). Providing analysis is protown, yet he votes me for it. Second, he defends Maverick, but later he accuses me of jumping off Maverick's bandwagon.

I realize that voting Maverick was a mistake, so I unvote:

Maverick, if you weren't seeking your own lynch, then you should be more clear about it. This post is about as clear as mud:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

This is what you say in the following order:
1) Lynch me because then you'll see my alignment.
2) You shouldn't lynch me.
3) Lynching me may not help you find any scum.
4) Lynching me would reduce the number of players, which would help you find scum.

Then you post this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

It really seems like you want to be lynched.

Hmm... after reading his posts again, I think Maverick is town. As for weather or not he was asking to be lynched, I think it's debatable at best. I'm going to

Unvote: Maverick

I would agree that unvoting Maverick appeared scummy at the time, but I provided a good reason.

ChannelDelibird makes a good post:

He's still doing a very good job of confusing the town with all this though. He's an experienced player, so I'm leaning more towards the idea that he's deliberately doing that rather than the idea that he's just getting tangled up in his own thoughts. Vote stands.

That may be true. To let Maverick off completely would be a mistake. However, I believe he is protown, so I won't vote for him unless I see a good reason.

Then I get bandwagoned for unvoting. Maverick still doesn't trust me (he has a good reason), but I'm more concerned with Rosso and Varian.

Wow, and we find another victim of "Oh fuck, someone suspects me, I better unvote" syndrome. Honestly, this is time and time again classic IE scumtell. Add in the fact that You seem to be backing but not overall connecting to serinah, and BRob definitely has scummy on him.

Vote:BRob

Distortion via rewording. You make it sound like I didn't have a protown reason for unvoting.

Again, I've got to agree.

The backpedalling is just incredibly odd. Especially when you take the time to do a point-by-point post trying to rip him apart.. and when it dissolves in your hands..well, I think Rosso hit the nail on the head with his little quote.

My vote definitely stands.

You believe Maverick is protown, correct? Do you want me to vote for Maverick regardless? If you want to defend Maverick, you can't accuse me for unvoting him! Take a stance, either Maverick should be voted or not, you can't have it both ways. Further more, my post by post could hardly be considered "shredding" Maverick.

My bandwagon continues to build:

Maverick, if you weren't seeking your own lynch, then you should be more clear about it. This post is about as clear as mud:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

This is what you say in the following order:
1) Lynch me because then you'll see my alignment.
2) You shouldn't lynch me.
3) Lynching me may not help you find any scum.
4) Lynching me would reduce the number of players, which would help you find scum.

Then you post this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

It really seems like you want to be lynched.

Hmm... after reading his posts again, I think Maverick is town. As for weather or not he was asking to be lynched, I think it's debatable at best. I'm going to

Unvote: Maverick

So you give us a thorough analysis of how Maverick contradicts himself, and then you proceed to unvote? That doesn't make any sense. If you think he's scummy, keep your vote on him.

FOS: B Rob

I attempt to defend myself. Rosso responds:

Wow, and we find another victim of "Oh fuck, someone suspects me, I better unvote" syndrome. Honestly, this is time and time again classic IE scumtell. Add in the fact that You seem to be backing but not overall connecting to serinah, and BRob definitely has scummy on him.

Vote:BRob

Rip him appart? Come on, you make is sound like there's that much to go on! I had a little more time to think over it, and I've decided that he's probably protown. He really wasn't asking to be lynched, that was a misinterpretation on my part. Note: Channel Delibird seemed to buy into my misinterpretation. I unvoted him because I think he is protown. Shouldn't we lynch scum?

And how am I linked to serinah? I haven't mentioned her at all, nor has she mentioned me. It sounds like you are trying to establish a potential scum pair that you can point to.

Vote: Rosso Carne

Slightly WIFOM here, but why would scum mention one another during the day, especially day 1. Just seems like that would put a target on scums heads right off the bat.

I say youre actions are linked as it seems that you're voting/suspiscion record are practically the same, as well as your "oh fuck..." behaviors (guess I'll be writing that a lot this game). on top of this, I feel your vote is slightly OMGUS.

Pure WIFOM, scum either will mention each other or not. Also, I'm working on my own. If I have time before I'm lynched, I'll compare my record to serianah's. Maybe they are similar, but I don't see how that makes me scum unless you can

prove

that serianah is.

Even if he

did

ask to be lynch, how is it any manner of productive to actually do it if you don't think he's scum?

You're digging yourself a bigger hole.

I'm a bit too tired to say much more, so I'll post it tomorrow.

Varian didn't care about this at all until this post. Previously, he voted me for unvoting Maverick. Varian's reasons for voting me seem to keep changing.

TB defends me:

All right, that post is the limit.

Unvote, vote Rosso Carne

.
I'm getting the feeling that Maverick's buddy's are trying to protect him by attacking B Rob, while the arguments they use are extremely poor.
I understand B Rob's reasons for unvoting, and I was tempted to unvote myself, but since Maverick was still the most supicious guy in my book, I didn't. With this post:

I also had other scummy vibes from you, and none from mav.

that completely changed.
I don't think it's possible to get no scummy vibes from Mav. By don't explaining yourself on the "other scummy vibes" you don't have a lot of evidence.

Either Maverick is scum and Rosso Carne is trying to protect him, or Maverick is protown and Rosso Carne is scum trying to convince other people that they shouldn't e making a mislynch, thus gaining the trust of the town.

Replace Rosso Carne with Varian and I agree 100%.

Also:

or, i honestly got nothing but a little aggression from mav. He never really asked to be lynched, that was fabricated/misread/whatever, and how are you sposed to get any information without a little aggression. I thought his bandwagon was extremely unreasonable mostly scum taking advantage of a mob mentality.

Once again, since everyone that votes for me refuses to answer this question,

if Maverick is a bad lynch, why is it scummy that I unvoted him???

Then there is some discussion regarding the value of lynching someone who asks to be lynched. I feel this is irrelevant, so I won't bring it up at this time.

Twito then expresses solidarity with Varian and suspicion towards me:

My primary suspects atm are:
ChannelDelibird
B Rob
Rosso
Maverick

And it's pretty hard to make decision between them. Lately B Rob has been posting pretty weak defence and I'm really considering on voting him.

It's scum that benefits from lynching everyone who asks to get lynched. I agree with Varian here.
B Robs defence, "misread", doesn't look right to me. Also he keeps saying that if someone askes to get lynched we should lynch him and I completely disagree with that. It's like suggesting massroleclaim on day1.

I haven't yet decided whether to keep my vote where it is or move it to someone else on that list.. almost feel like moving to B Rob but I think I will wait and see if those wibes change.

This exchange follows:

The more we get into this I find Twito more suspicious as well. Not enough for a vote, or even a FOS necisarily but he seems to not post much, and then we he does post he posts just enough to make it look like he's helping, but at the same time doesn't really add anything to discussion. He pretty much agrees with what has been said and it's weird.

I don't see need for me to post more.
I give my opinion and analyzes on things I feel are somehow important. If there is something that requires my attention let me know.. however I'm following the thread and answering guestions when someone doesn't do it quicker than me.

I decide to vote for Varian, since he has attempted the most distortion, and he respons with:

Hm.. how interesting.. I go after you, and suddenly I become the scummiest. You're really not helping your case

at all

.

I already stated that I don't think Maverick is scummy, and it wasn't that you unvoted

him

persay, but how you went about it.

You took the time for a point-by-point post, where you adamantly spouted that he should be lynched, and then, an entire point-by-point argument falls apart because "Oops, I misread" If your entire vote was based off of that single little bit, it was pretty damn weak in the first place.

Also, if the person is a townie, then its not "an admission of defeat" its frustration.

And, if you are willing to lynch anyone who asks for it... why should

I

have to rethink my idea? At least with my idea, I'm lynching someone who has set off a few people's scumdar.

Very distortive. My long post had more to do with other players then Varian implies, and my vote for Maverick was tenative at best. Remember, ChannelDelibird did something similar and Varian said nothing.

serinah80 posts some quality analysis:

ok here goes.
firstly, I'm a woman and emotional one. I won't be giving much proof because I believe there is no sufficient proof on anything yet. but I'll give you my opinions.

Maverick - is acting like a townie. agressiveness is coming from his character. but he is trying to cover it up. (I wanted to start a discussion, etc).

BRob - hopping around, contradicting himself, changing his mind. very human, can be scum, can be teenager. (no offence, I'm one myself) somehow I still think he's town.

ChannelDelibird - logical, thinks through everything he says. I personally find this type of players the most suspicious. maybe it's because I'm the exact opposite by nature. I don't understand sherlocks. so FoS CDB.

Varian, TB, Erotomachia - I have no idea, too hard to crack. Can be town, can be scum. They act like experienced players and they play like they don't really care if the'll be lynched or not. It's just a game, right? They probably play at least 3 more right now and it shows here.

Twito - plays a hundred games at the same time and is mildly passionate about it. Somehow I think he would pay more attention to the game from the start if he was a scum.

Rosso Crane - my favourite scum. Well, I think he is. Agressive and sharp. His goal of game seems to be lynching someone. It might be town that likes action but I think it's a scum that wants to win. I'll be quite surprised if he turns up dead tomorrow. or any other day for that matter.

yellowbounder, PBuG, WarpDragon - it's impossible to have an opinion on anyone that are hardly playing.

Well, I have shared my thought, lets see who of you will mark me as scum and why

BTW, I don't remember if I already said that but just in case.
I'm not voting because I don't believe we have much evidence yet. Maybe I will vote at the end of the day, maybe not. I hope you won't find that scummy.

I like this post a lot. serinah might have been somewhat erratic earlier, but this post seems protown to me. There's hardly anything here I disagree with. (I think Varian is the scummiest by far, and I trust ChannelDelibird more then she does.)

Then there is some disagreement between serinah and CD:

ChannelDelibird - logical, thinks through everything he says. I personally find this type of players the most suspicious. maybe it's because I'm the exact opposite by nature. I don't understand sherlocks. so FoS CDB.

You think I'm scum because I play differently to you? WTF?

FoS: serinah

It is not in your best interests to just get rid of everything you 'don't understand'.

no need to get to get agressive again. I'm not even voting. just giving MHO.

and you what, FoS me cause I don't understand things?? my theory about you being logical fly out of the window it seems...

Not understanding things, can be scummy, as an excuse of ignorance.
"Oh, I didn't know he was going to do that," in defence of your actions.

Not that it IS scummy, but it could be a possible tactic, and it is best for the town to stay up to date with what is happening.

I didn't understand a word of that.

And I didn't FoS you, serinah, because you didn't understand things, I FoSsed you because you said I was most suspicious because my playstyle was different to yours. You gave me a FoS for that, which was craplogic.

PBug continues my bandwagon:

Vote: B Rob

very jumpy. Suspects anyone that votes for him. Hmmmmmm...

And Twito votes me and asks for a role claim. Very scummy:

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

(There was plenty of discussion before he voted...)

There. This was kind of rushed towards the end, but I hope this helps the town. I tried to defend myself somewhat, but I was more concerned with giving the town my opinion.

I will try to post analysis of individual players, but I can't give an ETA since class started today and I'm actually posting this between classes.

[B Rob]

Shit. That figures. Sorry

[B Rob]

I haven't posted because I'm working on a long analytical post. I should be done by later tonight. If you lynch me before then, then town deserves to lose.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

No.

Day 1 roleclaims only benefit scum.

I strongly disagree on that one. I absolutely hate the way games are played around here. On other forums where I play ppl atleast understand the benefit of roleclaims to the town. I think every townie should roleclaim before they die. It's absolutely ridicilous to say roleclaims only benefit scum, more like only scum benefits from not roleclaiming thing.

But I'm gonna wait for that long analytical post and to make sure you don't get quicklynched coz of my vote

Unvote: B Rob

Lets see what you got for us. So far not so good but we'll see about this upcoming post.

Day 1 Roleclaims

Town Benefits

-Town doesn't lynch a potential powerrole
-Doc can protect the claimer

Scum Benefits

-Scum can nightkill the claimer
-Scum can

not

kill the claimer, casting suspicion on his claim
-Scum can counterclaim, causing confusion
-No nightchoice trail exists

Also, scum can fake a claim on Day 1 and it would have just as much "proof" as a true claim, since there is no way to verify a claim on Day 1.

If we're talking about claims after Day 1, everything changes.

Mod

, can you remove the extra posts, please?

[B Rob]

In the interest of helping the town (and to compare my record to serinah's)...

Voting Records

Here is a summary of how each player has voted today. After the first vote, each vote change has a number representing the number of posts that player made between changes, including the actual vote post. Unvotes that are coupled with a new vote are not recorded. FoS's are not counted. This was done totally non-scientifically, so it's not guaranteed accurate.

warpdragon:

Twito (no change after 3 posts)

Rosso Carne:

PBuG, Varian(3), Unvote(2), B Rob(4) (no change after 5 posts)

ChannelDelibird:

yellowbounder, serinah80(2), unvote(1), Maverick(4), unvote(2), (no change after 5 posts)

yellowbounder:

Rosso Carne (no change after 4 posts)

Erotomachia:

No starting vote, B Rob(5), (no change after 2 posts)

serinah80:

Maverick, Rosso Carne(2), Unvote(6), (no change after 5 posts)

B Rob:

TB, Twito(2), Maverick(2), Unvote(4), Rosso Carne(1), Varian(5), (no change after 5 posts, counting the triple post as one post)

Varian:

Twito, Rosso Carne(3), B Rob(4), (no change after 6 posts)

Twito:

Varian, ChannelDelibird(5), B Rob(7), Unvote(1), (no change after 2 posts)

Maverick:

No starting vote, serinah80(2), ChannelDelibird(3), B Rob(5), Unvote(8)

TB:

PBuG, Maverick(3), Rosso Carne(2), (no change after 1 post)

PBuG:

ChannelDelibird, Rosso Carne(3), Unvote(1), B Rob(1), (no change after 1 post)

[B Rob]

Frankly, the other game sucks. I'm trying to get back into it. If you want to vote me for that reason, that's your perrogative.

[B Rob]

BTW, thanks to the mod for removing the extra posts.

[B Rob]

BRob, the statement I was going to hope you wouldnt take offense to is that you are still not horrible experienced, so if you are scum, you probably wouldnt be ballsy enough to post such a huge post without garnering such suspiscion.

I appreciate the support, but I don't believe it's wise to assume I'm not scum for the reasons you cited. But I'm not scum. Really.

The reaction to your posts however, really point to scum bandwagoners.

I agree 100%.

[B Rob]

Isn't this the second time Rosso has been bandwagoned? I look forward to seeing who votes for him again.

[B Rob]

Let's hear some reasons for this Twito wagon.

[B Rob]

Let's not forget this:

Unvote Vote: Twito

who has posted twice the entire game. (Well, it should be considered one post, since one is right after the other.)

16 minutes later:

Well I'm here. Just hadn't had time to read through topic so I haven't posted. I wanna have base on my votes or I just stick with random.

My testweek is ending so I should have time to go through everything soon enough.

13 minutes later:

Unvote Vote: Twito

who has posted twice the entire game. (Well, it should be considered one post, since one is right after the other.)

Pot, meet Kettle.

You've only posted 3 times, including that one.

Two minutes

later:

Unvote Vote: Twito

who has posted twice the entire game. (Well, it should be considered one post, since one is right after the other.)

Pot, meet Kettle.

You've only posted 3 times, including that one.

:D So I just went past him with this post?
Well I'm really gonna try to find time to read through thread tomorrow but now I need some sleep.

Call me crazy, but it just seems miraculous to me that someone who isn't able to read a two-and-a-half page game is able to play close enough attention to notice when he is voted and post about it so soon.

I also don't like how he put me and 6 and

pushed for a role claim at the same time

.

I'll put my money where my mouth is:

Unvote Vote: Twito

[B Rob]

There are a number of problems with Day 1 roleclaims. First, they are impossible to substantiate as (commonly) no night choices have been made yet.

Second, anyone who claims a power role should be nightkilled. Leaving them alive creates an unnecessary liability for the mafia, IMO. Sometimes mafia will leave the claimer alive as an attempt to paint him as a fraud. In either case, the town gains very little. The scum can simply bandwagon someone else and decide how to deal with the claimer later.

Third, any player (town or scum) can claim on day one with little liability. Scum have a big incentive to do this, as they want to preserve their secrecy for as long as possible.

And finally, what value does a Day 1 claim actually have? Early claims provide little if any information.

This is a matter of opinion, so I suggest we move on to discussing something else. Twito's explanations are good, and I'm not seeing enough good reasons for this wagon, so I will

Unvote

.

[B Rob]

B Rob Wrote:

This is a matter of opinion, so I suggest we move on to discussing something else. Twito's explanations are good, and I'm not seeing enough good reasons for this wagon, so I will Unvote.

Although I do agree that Twito made good points, I think the fact that you unvoting after basically being the one who started the Twito wagon is suspcious. You have done this before in this game, changed your opinion so spontainously.. so maybe it's just how you play.. I'm not sure.

What??? Where the hell are you getting that from??? I was the 5th vote on him, and I didn't even consider lynching him until this wagon started developing!

FOS Maverick

[B Rob]

Off topic, but

Mod

, Varian dropped out of another game, and he hasn't posted here in quite a while.

This Twito wagon smells scummy... I'm exhausted right now, but I'd love to take a good look at it tomorrow.

[B Rob]

We need to hear from Erotomachia, TB, yellowbounder, and Varian or his replacement.

Also, I keep getting accused of poor timing. People tend to agree with my actions and my reasons for those actions, but I get voted or FOS'd because... well, I just don't know! How long should I have waited before I unvoted Twito? My vote put him at five. PBuG's recent vote puts him at six. When would it have been acceptable for me to unvote? After he was lynched?

Somebody give me a freakin' clue here! CBD does the same thing and gets a free pass. Hell, he did it just now by unvoting Twito! He didn't even give any reason for his unvote!

Some responses to recent posts:

I do agree with the point that Maverick was trying to make (apart, obviously, from the first vote part), about you building what looked like a substantial case against Twito and suddenly saying 'I'm not seeing good enough reasons for this wagon'. If you didn't see good reasons for a wagon why did you hop onto it?

FoS: B Rob

Also,

unvote Twito

.

This is the only post of yours that would make me think you're scum. Do you honestly think what I said about Twito was such a good case? I was meerly pointing out how his post timing was questionable. That doesn't make him scummy by itslef. You take the time to accuse me, but you don't give a reson for your unvote!

B Rob Wrote:

This is a matter of opinion, so I suggest we move on to discussing something else. Twito's explanations are good, and I'm not seeing enough good reasons for this wagon, so I will Unvote.

Although I do agree that Twito made good points, I think the fact that you unvoting after basically being the one who started the Twito wagon is suspcious. You have done this before in this game, changed your opinion so spontainously.. so maybe it's just how you play.. I'm not sure.

So you think Twito is town, but I'm scum because of poor timing. Right.

What??? Where the hell are you getting that from??? I was the 5th vote on him, and I didn't even consider lynching him until this wagon started developing!

FOS Maverick

oh, come on, quit jumping around like this, BRob! You can't fos someone because they made some stupid mistake or thinking you did something you really didn't...

This accusation doesn't make sense.

#1, I've given reasons for my actions. Is there something in Twito's defense that you disagree with? Yes, I change my mind rather quickly sometimes,

but I give reasons for those changes

. Do you disagree with those reasons? You seem to think Twito is town. I agree. I see some of the mistakes he has made, and I find that I would make similar mistakes in his position.

#2, your reasons for accusing me all come from Maverick's defense. Maverick clearly stated that he thought I started the wagon, then totally retracted what he said. I'm not sure if I can explain it, but you're basing your suspicion on me off of what Maverick said.

And a scummy Twito wagon, Mr. BRob, you jump around more than some particular mexican beanz.

I'd be more willing to believe this accusation if you would take the time to respond to Twito's defense. If you think he's so scummy, then put your money where your mouth is.

[B Rob]

pretty sure I have

I'm not so sure, but since I think you're town anyway, maybe I should drop it. I think you've been honest with us so far, even if I don't agree with you often.

[B Rob]

Damn. I liked playing with Varian.

[B Rob]

Oh sorry, welcome, chef! I'm sure a fresh perspective would be helpful.

[B Rob]

I would agree that it's time to lynch someone. We have a lot of great posts, but they're not going to be all that useful until we have some nightchoices to examine. I think it's time to move forward and do something with what we have.

Well, let's see... we basically have three options: lynch Twito, lynch Rosso Carne, or build another bandwagon on someone else. TB should be replaced, not lynched.

Do we have enough information to lynch Twito or Rosso Carne, or is there someone else you'd rather lynch? Let's start by voicing some opinions on these ideas, and move from there.

[B Rob]

I agree with Smashy, but I'd rather give chef more time to contribute to the game first. If chef is scum, he'll slip up later. I'd be more comfortable lynching someone that I'm more familiar with.

[B Rob]

Well, Twito is one from lynch, so the real question is, who's going to hammer him? I think he's town, so I won't vote him, especially now.

[B Rob]

Whoa, Rosso is about to be speedlynched! This is rather ridiculous! I'd like to hear some reasons why you're all so sure so suddenly that Rosso is scum? Let's set aside PBuG's claim for a moment before we're so quick to test it.

[B Rob]

I agree, Rosso is the lynch for today. At least one of Rosso, PBuG, and serinah is lying. If Rosso turns up town, we may very well be catching both of the other two in lies.

Vote: Rosso Carne

[B Rob]

I think at this point, any scum would be desperate to end the day as quick as possible, so let's open discussion before the last vote. I propose that no one changes their vote until we've all posted at least twice, if not more, after this post. (I'll post twice more as well.) That way, everyone is required to contribute before the day ends.

[B Rob]

Just so we're all clear on this, PBuG's claim makes him a sane cop or scum. There's no way the flavor he gave could be interpreted as an insane or paranoid cop. That's the main reason why I believe him, since it would be much easier for him if he gave himself some kind of out.

[B Rob]

I don't think it makes you scummy.

[B Rob]

PBuG, I protected you last night. After Twito died, I gained the ability to protect someone with a 50% chance of success. In addition, in my initial role information, I was told that the camp councelors were charged with finding the bad guys, so I believe your claim and serinah's. The two of you are 100% confirmed innocent in my mind.

If I'm lynched, it would reveal a lot of information to the town, but I'd rather we work together rather then against each other. For one, I'm having a very hard time believing this Maverick/chef mason pair, as I suspect both of them, especially chef. (I suspect chef mainly because he replaced varian, but I'm still not believing this claim.)

I like chef's claim as much as you guys do (aka not very much), but if Maverick does confirm it, my next target is B Rob. He makes note that Rosso's about to be speedlynched, then promptly doesn't post throughout the entire confusion about Rosso's and serinah's roles. When he does come back, it's after we've determined that Rosso was the lynch. His post when Rosso was on the verge could have been a delaying tactic to try to save Rosso through a potential slip-up.

I think at this point, any scum would be desperate to end the day as quick as possible, so let's open discussion before the last vote. I propose that no one changes their vote until we've all posted at least twice, if not more, after this post. (I'll post twice more as well.) That way, everyone is required to contribute before the day ends.

Yeah, because we all know how scum LOVE to hammer their own

Vote: B Rob

This attack makes zero sense. I'm scum because I didn't comment on a situation that didn't last very long and is immaterial anyway. Right.

As for scum lynching thier own, read my post again. Any scum in their right mind would want to end the day immediately. I wanted to make that into a serious risk by drawing attention to it.

chef dropped the hammer, btw, and his only two contributions to the discussion were this:

Wow... I leave to go to a waterpark for one day.... Sheesh that was a lot to digest. However it does seem that Rosso is probably scum. I WILL NOT vote yet, as I believe more disscussion is neccessary as B Rob said. In my last newbie game, the day was ended too quickly and people still were not sure if they were a good vote or not, and we ended up lynching a townie. So more discussion please! But just to let you all know, in case this game is still going when I leave, I will be gone the weekend of July 14th (it means July 14, 15 and 16). I will be at a conference and the hotel has wi-fi, but I don't believe its free... Oh well... So instead of voting I will just put a fos: Rosso on and call it a morning!

...and requesting a vote count. tsk-tsk, chef. Contribute to discussion if you're going to request it.

Unvote Vote: chef

I think we should test this mason claim right away. If chef is a mason, we've got another confirmed innocent with Maverick. Otherwise, we've got another scum and could win the game tomorrow.

[B Rob]

The course of action was obvious. The discussion that lead to it was relatively immaterial since the correct action was found quickly. At least, that's what I think, especially considering what I know.

[B Rob]

I don't know why you're all believing this mason claim. It's missing a key quality that the other validated claims do have. I'd give you all a hint, but I want to give chef and Maverick more time before I tell you what it is.

[B Rob]

Gotcha.

[B Rob]

There is a chance the cop will be dead tomorrow. I can protect him, but that only has a 50% chance of success.

[B Rob]

This is ridiculous! chef and mav haven't posted any flavor for their roles, not to mention that we're in a game with a doc, vig, cop, roleblocker, and 50% doc against one killing group. We get masons, too?

We should be trying to validate this mason claim, not lynching someone with very little to go on. If we lynch chef, and we find out he's telling the truth, then we get a confirmed innocent (mav), but if we lynch yellowbounder and he's town, we get very little.

Come on, guys, think this through. If the mafia target's PBuG (and they will), and my protection fails, then this plan gets us nowhere.

[B Rob]

This is ridiculous! chef and mav haven't posted any flavor for their roles

Want to make B Rob a happy camper?

I guess not.

[B Rob]

Nothing is going to convince me of the mav/chef mason claim now. Is there anybody who still believes them?

[B Rob]

That's a pretty safe argument, yellowbounder. When are you going to take some risks?

[B Rob]

Also, where is everybody? Can we get some prods, please?

[B Rob]

So how is BRob innocent again?

I wasn't aware anyone was assuming I was innocent. I think you're resorting to aggression under pressure, which is kind of surprising. After you stated you were being purposely aggressive on day 1, I thought you would be attacking me long before now.


auda seems to have disappeared. Anybody know where he is?

[B Rob]

auda might be replaced in another game we are in. How long do we want to wait before we seeks someone to take over the game?

FOS yellowbounder

I would be voting for you if I didn't have such strong beliefs about maverick and chef.

[B Rob]

Vote: B Rob

because I know that chef and I are innocent and he won't let go, which is rediculous since he won't even consider the fact that we're telling the truth, when we are. B Rob seems like a good lynch to me.

I'd like to know why you aren't lynched already.

[B Rob]

You can't investigate him if you're dead. I'm thinking about changing to the alternate plan, but it's pointless to make a decision now when half the players are MIA including the mod.

[B Rob]

oh, come on, why is the game stopped again?!?!

*jumping around, waveing hands*

do I

have

to do something stupid to get ppl talking?!?

*thinking what to do*

unvote. vote PBug

*smirks*

That was a very silly thing to do.

[B Rob]

TY.

[B Rob]

You're kidding me.

You are an Overacheiving Camper. You were very excited to come to camp to learn all sorts of new and exciting skills, like woodworking, archery and first aid. You'd offer your services to help catch these evil campers, but that's the job of the counselors. I'm sure your skills will come in handy soon.

- You have no abilities right now, but given your keen eye and quick wits, you can fill in for an indisposed camp counselor. I will give you more details when that happens.
- You win when only good campers remain.

Doesn't that just stink - your camp is now without its medic. But wait - you've been studying your first aid, right? You may not have as much experience as the former medic, but you're certainly willing to pitch in and help. And it looks like you can use all the help you can get.

You are now the Camp Medic. Each night, you may prepare the medic cabin for the special needs of one camper. If that camper is attacked, you will have a 50% chance to save them.

Town was overpowered, for sure.