Mini 332 - Camp Scum Lake - Mod Abandoned

[TBuG]

First off, thanks for actually letting me finish my post.

To finish, PBPAs are viewed, by many experienced players as a way to both bog down the game and as a scum technique to suck up to the town. You wanna attack me for metagaming and keeping good policy? Do it outside the game.

As for the rest, BRob, your post is incredibly beneficial, not really to my opinion of you, but helped nonetheless. Twito, you want a quick day 1? Why is this? day 1 is where you get the most information to be used later when the town actually has some hard information to use.

BRob, the statement I was going to hope you wouldnt take offense to is that you are still not horrible experienced, so if you are scum, you probably wouldnt be ballsy enough to post such a huge post without garnering such suspiscion. The reaction to your posts however, really point to scum bandwagoners.

unvote, vote:twito

You're upset that we posted during the three days that you waited to post? Funny. PBPAs? Wanna spell... Er, word it out for those of who don't know what that stands for?

[Rosso Carne]

point by point analysis

[B Rob]

BRob, the statement I was going to hope you wouldnt take offense to is that you are still not horrible experienced, so if you are scum, you probably wouldnt be ballsy enough to post such a huge post without garnering such suspiscion.

I appreciate the support, but I don't believe it's wise to assume I'm not scum for the reasons you cited. But I'm not scum. Really.

The reaction to your posts however, really point to scum bandwagoners.

I agree 100%.

[Maverick]

Guys I just wanted to let you know that I'm still here, for some reason I was having problems logging into the site for a couple of days and the email i have on here is out of date so I had to remember my pw. I had been reading things, but not like the last 5ish posts, so i'll post asap. Sorry.

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't think the issue about preferred time frames for a game is an issue at all. Of course we'd all prefer a quicker game, but only if we were all online at the same time, which isn't going to happen any time soon.

Thanks yellowbounder for making a bit more of a contribution, although to be honest I wasn't able to draw much from it.

I think it's time for a lurker hunt.

Vote: Warpdragon

[B Rob]

Isn't this the second time Rosso has been bandwagoned? I look forward to seeing who votes for him again.

[Varian]

Yes, this is the second time. The first was when he and I were both pushing eachother's buttons on purpose to pull out reactions. But this time around, I'm not really satisfied with the reasons given for the current bandwagon. So I'm just sitting on the sidelines, waiting for the lurkers to post, while letting our other game totally kill my enjoyment of Mafia >.<

So, yeah, blame that game for my activity in this one dying down a bit. I'll try to pick it up a bit. I'm going to do a re-read of the thread first though.

[serinah80]

When you say something like: "I'm waiting a reaction" meaning that you'll probably have a scum reacting, then you probably will not have a reaction.

Almost every time Rosso Crane writes something I wanna vote him. Now after his voting Twito was gonna vote him.
But then someone said it's a bandwagon. That made me rethink voting. Don't want to look scummy.

But you know what?? I don't think it's a bandwagon anymore. If a guy is acting so agressive all the time, if he's only way of playing is changing votes all the time for crappy reasons, then he is scummy. Yeah, I've had enough. Voting Twito for bloody having an opinion about game speed?!!

Twito thought that we could play faster. Well, so what?? Of course it would be great! I'd love it too. To wish or maybe enven say a little bit impatiently that he's used to 1-2 day lynches is not scummy in my book.
Voting for such behaviour is.

The more I play the more sure I am.

vote: Rosso Crane

[serinah80]

I'm glad that yellowbounder found time to contribute but there's little useful info.

serinah80 = The self claimed "teenage girl" that is suspitious of ChannelDelibird meerly because of his logical and Sherlock Holmes demeanor.

Well not exactly. I felt he was suspicios but I thought that it might be because I don't quite understand everithing.

You saying I clamed to be a teenager is actually correct. I'm 26, I just meant that I often act and think like one. Mentally a cheelleader. lol

As for slow game, then yes I log on only once a day in the evenings. And yesterday I was so bloody tired when I got home that I didn't log at all.
Working and studying does that to you. But somehow I think that when my vacation will begin I won't be spending it in front of my laptop. So, no, I don't think that playing quickley is an option.

[Maverick]

Alright well after reading I don't really have much to add. I agree with a lot of things that have been said, especially when rosso said "I'm a jerk, get over it" I thought that line was really lame, and it was asking to have something said about it. I agree with twito on that one, I don't buy it.

It was nice to see yellowbounder make a post whether it helped or not.. Shows that he's making an effort to be involved in the game.

Other than that I havn't really noticed anything.. i don't think I'm quite ready for a vote yet.. and I don't want to join the bandwagon without good reason.

[TB]

Just posting to letting you guys know that I'm still here, and that I absolutely see no reason to change my vote

[yellowbounder]

Well, I've prepared a summary of Day 1, but I realised as I got to the bit with B Rob's massive post, that it was covering roughly the same thing. But I'll post it anyway, because a new perspective is always good, and it might remove some of the imagery that I never contribute.

Day 1 Summary

Random Voting

People voted a lot. Not much else, since random voting starts the game by providing conflict.

Varian vs. Rosso Carne

This argument started Varian defined what a maverick was, and Rosso Carne complained that this was an insult to his intelligence.

unvote, vote:varian

for thinking im stupid enough not to open freaking wikipedia.

Then various people took the sides of the brawlers. Anti-Varians consisted of Rosso Carne and Channel Delibird, while anti-Rosso Carnes, consited of Varian and serinah80.

Serinah80's Third Vote

Serinah80 recived two votes from ChannelDelibird and Maverick for putting the third vote on Rosso Carne, (the other two being Varian, and yours truly via a random vote).

Rosso Carne also expressed his suspisions about serinah80.

unvote
vote

Rosso Carne

If Varian over reacted, then Rosso started it by being agressive.
Acting like a jerk means acting like a scum in my book. Especially so early in the game...

(note: I didn't say he was a jerk, I said he acted like it.)

8)

Here's one to say: I am, in fact, a jerk. =D

You're argument is so wierd, I don't kno where to begin. Maybe with, like, there are certain people in this world that would always be considered scummy on those grounds. On that note,

unvote

and throw a true and actual

FOS:serinah

for trying to start an early bandwagon on crap data.

Varian, however, pointed out that the third vote when it took seven to lynch, was not terribly important.

And since when is placing the 3rd vote when it takes 7 so horrible? If he placed the 6th, ok. But the 3rd? I'd say you guys are the ones trying to build a bandwagon out of air.

Meanwhile in

Varian vs. Rosso Carne

Erotomachia claimed that Rosso Carne was more agressive than Varian (post 38 ), and pBug voted for Rosso Carne (post 40).

Back On The Ranch in

Serinah80's Third Vote

Serinah80 defended her vote hopping, as a noobish random vote jumping.

Also I don't see how two random votes are suspicious. I'm a noob and I like to jump around with voting here and there. Why is it suspicious on the first day if we don't really know anything anyway? All votings are random in their nature anyway.

In response to this ChannelDelibird unvoted her.

First of all,

unvote: Serinah80

I think you're confusing the word 'impression' with 'argument' here. But anyway, I see the point you're trying to make about the random votes, serinah, but really after you've done one it's a bit pointless and needlessly confusing to do a second. I would normally interpret it as a way to mask not wanting to lynch the person you originally random voted for.

But I agree with B Rob - it's not helping because it's not about anything remotely important. The only way we'll get useful information about behaviour is if it's in reaction to something actually related to the game.

Which leads us into...

Maverick's Jumps

Maverick accused ChannelDelibird of 'agreement without contribution'.

Alright,

Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird

You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

Serinah80 claimed that Maverick was becoming suspitious due to his jumping and pointing at everyone.

I think you're confusing the word 'impression' with 'argument' here. But anyway, I see the point you're trying to make about the random votes, serinah, but really after you've done one it's a bit pointless and needlessly confusing to do a second. I would normally interpret it as a way to mask not wanting to lynch the person you originally random voted for.

ChannelDelibird got my meaning. I forgot that you use the word "impress" with a positive meaning only in English. My apologies.

And thanks for clearing up the reason why continuous random voting can be suspicious. I hadn't thought about it. You mean, that if I and Maverick were a scum, I could easily make him my random vote and then quicly change it to mask a cooperation?
Well, that's not what happened here. I was just being silly.

Alright, Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird
You keep coming in and agreeing with what everyone else is saying, you don't add anything to discussions that is your own opinion to help us get more information. All you have done is make votes for no reason, and then agree with what other people are saying when you unvote. To me it seems like a desperate attemp to get the finger off of yourself.

- Maverick.



I'm not sure that ChannelDelibird hasn't shared his own ideas nor given new helpful information. But even if it is true, it does not show that he's a scum. I don't think I have either. You can hardly say that comment about knives is relevant, can't you?
Another thought. If CB would not post his reflections on the situation, you could accuse him in lurking. And I think you would.

Which brings me to my main thought. Why are you so jumpy and pointing at everyone all the time? Your actions are far more suspecious than ChannelDelibird's.

Unvote Rosso Crane

Fos: Maverick.

Maverick claimed that he was agressive on purpose to start discussion.

Finally some good discussion. I've been overly aggressive the entire game on purpose and nobody, until now has noticed.. or at least said anything about it. All I'm trying to do is to start conversation that will actually lead to something, not trying to make myself suspicious.

As of now, I'm happy with my vote on ChannelDelibird, because I still say that he's trying too hard to cover something. He may not be scum, but from all we have to go by, in my opinion he is the most suspicious.

Oh and Serinah80, just so you know you didn't bold your unvote so the mod won't get it.

BRob then voted Maverick anyway.
ChannelDelibird also became suspisious (see post 63).

Interlude: Twito Arguments

Twito breaks the lurker cycle and comes out with suspisions for ChannelDelibird.

Rosso Carne first completely over reacted and replied something that made no sence since what Varian had said had nothing to do with him. He even votes based on this completely made up evidence. Then Varian pointed this out and (counter?)voted Rosso Carne for acting like moron. Rosso counter confirmvoted after that which is a scum tell to me.

Then ChannelDelibird fosses Varian for over reacting even though Rosso had first agressively over reacted.
serinah80 points out Rossos behavior and votes him.
Maverick votes serinah saying that serinah didn’t give argument againts Rosso when he voted even though he did. Looks like Maverick is trying to re-direct the conversation away from Rosso.
ChannelDelibird hops on serinah wagon.
Rosso unvotes his confirmed vote and fosses serinah for trying to start an early bandwagon on crap data even though there is currently an attempt to start wagon on serinah with worse data. Since when is placing the 3rd vote when it takes 7 so horrible?

B Rob makes his first post. Right away he fosses both Varian and Rosso saying that conversation is useless. Imo that has given some nice info.

ChannelDelibird unvotes Serinah80 as he notices that wagon didn’t catch fire. Doesn’t really give any reason as to why he unvotes.
Then agrees with B Rob hoping that ppl ignore the whole conversation.

Maverick Unvote: Serinah80, Vote:ChannelDelibird. No reason given for Serinah unvote other than the vote on ChannelDelibird which imo has some good points.

Serinah now unvotes Rosso Crane and fosses Maverick.

As interest againts earlier suspects has fallen B Rob now tries to direct the conversation on me with kinda shit reasons since he blames me for only posting 2 times and he himself has only posted 2 times.

Based on that:

Vote ChannelDelibird

and fosses on many others.

Then warpdragon breaks his lurker cycle as well, and argues against ChannelDelibird.

Hello all. Sorry for not posting more, but I was out of town.

I have read the thread and feel that Twito is trying to take up space and make it look like his posts mean anything. He also makes it look like he accidental messed up his unvoting of ChannelDelibird, however, he was never voting him to begin with. In fact, his vote should still be on varian. Interestingly enough, he neither names his fos's nor fos's CDB when he feints the unvote.

Vote: Twito

B Rob looks to be taking the easy way out with the lurker wagon but is in reality not helping the town because he did not even notice I had not said anything. The varian and rosso carne argument was a lot of overreaction but it did lead to some good discussion for dissection. ChannelDelibird also seems kind of suspicious, but maverick does as well. I'll need a little more time to sort that one out.

Back to

Maverick's Jumps

TB agrees that Maverick is agressive and votes him.

B Rob Band

This band started when Maverick accused B Rob of lurking, and taking the easy way out.

Actually I don't recall ever asking to be lynched, all I said is that if you don't believe that I'm town I can't convince you so the only way to find out for sure is to lynch me. I guess that means "Lynch me please", because that's how your taking it.

Also

Unvote: ChannelDelibird, Vote: B Rob

Because BRob is playing one of the weirdest games I've seen.. he starts off saying hardly anything and somewhat lurking as to cover something. Then he votes someone else for the same reason and when someone notices he unvotes and starts talking a lot, and now seems to be taking the easiest bandwagon possible "The guy 'asking' to be lynched". ChannelDelibird quickly follows, not to say they started the wagon but they definately have made it an official wagon. Right now you two are the most suspicious to me.

Varian comes along for the ride as well.

B Rob then analyses Maverick and deems him town, as well as unvoting him.

Maverick, if you weren't seeking your own lynch, then you should be more clear about it. This post is about as clear as mud:

That's not true, if I were to get lynched then people would see that I was town, and it would give them a better idea of who is scum. I'm not saying I should be lynched, nor am I saying that me being lynched would give town scum for sure. But I definately think it would narrow it down a bit.

This is what you say in the following order:
1) Lynch me because then you'll see my alignment.
2) You shouldn't lynch me.
3) Lynching me may not help you find any scum.
4) Lynching me would reduce the number of players, which would help you find scum.

Then you post this:

Actually I'm pretty sure I havn't backed off at all. Right now the fingers of many are pointing at me, which in turn will lead to something else whether I get lynched or not. Something is bound to happen from this, and that's all I wanted. I honestly don't care if people believe me, so if it takes me getting lynched to figure out i'm just town go for it.

It really seems like you want to be lynched.

Hmm... after reading his posts again, I think Maverick is town. As for weather or not he was asking to be lynched, I think it's debatable at best. I'm going to

Unvote: Maverick

However, ChannelDelibird still argues that Maverick's arguments are confusing the town.

He's still doing a very good job of confusing the town with all this though. He's an experienced player, so I'm leaning more towards the idea that he's deliberately doing that rather than the idea that he's just getting tangled up in his own thoughts. Vote stands.

Rosso Carne votes B Rob for unvoting.

Wow, and we find another victim of "Oh fuck, someone suspects me, I better unvote" syndrome. Honestly, this is time and time again classic IE scumtell. Add in the fact that You seem to be backing but not overall connecting to serinah, and BRob definitely has scummy on him.

Vote:BRob

TB votes Rosso Carne for being protective of Maverick

All right, that post is the limit.

Unvote, vote Rosso Carne

.
I'm getting the feeling that Maverick's buddy's are trying to protect him by attacking B Rob, while the arguments they use are extremely poor.
I understand B Rob's reasons for unvoting, and I was tempted to unvote myself, but since Maverick was still the most supicious guy in my book, I didn't. With this post:

I also had other scummy vibes from you, and none from mav.

that completely changed.
I don't think it's possible to get no scummy vibes from Mav. By don't explaining yourself on the "other scummy vibes" you don't have a lot of evidence.

Either Maverick is scum and Rosso Carne is trying to protect him, or Maverick is protown and Rosso Carne is scum trying to convince other people that they shouldn't e making a mislynch, thus gaining the trust of the town.

14 posts later, B Rob votes Varian for being the most scummy.

If someone asks to be lynched, ignore that, and judge them based on other things. For instance, if I was getting attacked from all sides, even if I was town, sooner or later, if my defense kept failing, I would just be like "Fine, lynch me then." Its a sign of frustration, and that is no where near the level of LAL.

That sounds more like an admission of defeat then a sign of frustration. But that's semantics.

Its not that hard to ignore a "Fine, lynch me" comment and make a vote based on everything else aside from it. If they

are

scum, chances are they'll have more scummy indicators than just that.

What are Maverick's other scummy indicators? Remember, you are voting for me because I unvoted Maverick.

Honestly, this is a matter of opinion, and if you want to lynch me over my idea, then you need to rethink your standards.

Unvote: Rosso Carne Vote: Varian

I think either or both of them could be scum. Varian seems the scummiest at this point.

The old serinah80 vs. ChannelDelibird argument shows up for ten posts, before finally being resolved.

ChannelDelibird - logical, thinks through everything he says. I personally find this type of players the most suspicious. maybe it's because I'm the exact opposite by nature. I don't understand sherlocks. so FoS CDB.

You think I'm scum because I play differently to you? WTF?

FoS: serinah

It is not in your best interests to just get rid of everything you 'don't understand'.

Me not geting you might be because my way of thinking is different than yours. "I don't understand you" should be actually read here: "I can't imagine what it's like to be a methodical and logical person." So here I'm basically saying that your actions might not be suspecious but I only see them like that.

That is the point that I recognised you making and was concerned about. I have not been twisting your words but I don't think there's any point pursuing this argument any more, we've both got our points across.

PBug, in post 138, thinks that B Rob is jumpy.

Vote: B Rob

very jumpy. Suspects anyone that votes for him. Hmmmmmm...

TB, wtf.

which means that there is a good chance they are scum trying to get us lynching each other.. [/b]

Have you played mafia before? That would be an extemely bad assumption of three players, two of which are highly experienced.

Then, Twito pushes B Rob for a roleclaim.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

B Rob then puts forward his arugument that Day 1 roleclaimers only benefit scum.

I haven't posted because I'm working on a long analytical post. I should be done by later tonight. If you lynch me before then, then town deserves to lose.

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

No.

Day 1 roleclaims only benefit scum.

Maverick puts foward the possiblity that B Rob could be town.

Pbug, there are many votes on BRob right now, and I can't recall right off hand of more than one person he's suspected that has voted for him. I'm starting to think BRob may be town, but as of now none of us really have anything else to go by. I don't know about pbug either though, he doesn't post much, then when he does his information either doesn't help at all, or doesn't make since. Then calling himself a highly expierenced player, even if it is true I don't like cockiness. Just my opinion though.

And finally, for the last major event in Day 1, B Rob posts his famous post, thrice. This causes a stream of unvoting due generally to "major contribution".

And so that is all I have to offer at this time.
I'm not trying to get in the way of B Rob's post, this is meerly a summary, as I see events. I hope this helps in some respect. I hope this qualifies as a major contribution.

[ChannelDelibird]

That was really all stuff that we already knew/had been pointed out by others. That would have been more helpful if you'd stated what in there you found to be suspicious/scummy and voted after reviewing the day.

Mod

, could we get a

prod

on warpdragon?

[audacesiuvat]

Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (4): TB, PBuG, Twito, serinah80
Twito (2): WarpDragon, Rosso Carne
B Rob (1): Varian
Varian (1): B Rob
WarpDragon (1): ChannelDelibird

Not Voting (3): Maverick, yellowbounder, Erotomachia

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

[Twito]

*points at signature*

[Rosso Carne]

I again feel a reference to "I'm FREE, FREE" coming.

[Maverick]

No offense but I found that summary a pointless waste of time, due to the fact that we've had a very good summary already, and like CDB said that had none of your opinion in it.

[TB]

Although it doesn't contains his opinion, it is more organised that B Rob's, so I think it is of some help. Either way it shows that he isn't lurking as much as he did, so if that was your purpose, you did a good job.

[warpdragon]

I'll try and post some more, its just that finals weeks are here at school, so I've become pretty busy.

I'm not sure if it's semantics, but in yellowbounder's post, his view that I was arguing against ChannelDelibird, where I neither voted nor fosed him, made it clear that I wasn't sure if I felt more strongly toward him or Maverick, and voted for Twito, but only after unvoting CDb. I don't know what angle he's looking from, but it he seems to be pushing something. Care to explain?

[yellowbounder]

In the second part of my summary, I'll put down what I think.

When I went over it once I posted it, I'm actually suspisious of someone.

Vote: Twito

Look at it this way, he pushed B Rob for a roleclaim on day 1, he doesn't say much in his posts, and made a couple of false accusations, such as ChannelDelibird trying to start a bandwagon while I didn't find much evidence to suggest this.

warpdragon: That was actually the wrong name, I checked my original Real(tm) paper notes, and it had Twito, instead of ChannelDelibird. Sorry.

That's all.

[Maverick]

I'll be honest by saying that I do think this day has gone a little too long, and that me should probably be coming to a conclusion.. Not to rush things, but really at this rate we'll be playing until Christmas. Things are slowing down too, not a lot is happening.

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote

Thanks for turning up again warpdragon.

Vote: Twito

I agree we need to get moving and Twito is the player I'm most struggling to get a read on at this point.

[B Rob]

Let's hear some reasons for this Twito wagon.

[ChannelDelibird]

Let's hear some reasons for this Twito wagon.

I'm voting Twito because I'm distrustful of people I can't get a good read on. I have absolutely no idea where I stand in regards to his behaviour and that worries me more than slight suspicions. He also might appreciate dying if the game takes too long for him to continue playing, but that's a lesser concern. It also gets some momentum going in the game.

[yellowbounder]

He

There is absolutely no discussion. I think we should get some.
So..
B Rob, what about a roleclaim?

Unvote: ChannelDelibird

Vote: B Rob

There's that, and his accusations of CD starting a bandwagon, which I didn't see much evidence of when I did my summary, and the fact he's not saying much in his posts, like I've heard it before. Besides, as ChannelDelibird said above, it might start discussion. And as Maverick said, we need some.