TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[David Xanatos]

I'm relatively new to the site and I've seen Shotty's rep even in the MD forum.. hardly a valid argument from mera on that count. Not sure if scumtell but not exactly nice to lie to us..

And isn't F62 just something you clicky the linky to join in the usergroup?

[David Xanatos]

Why do people always get my name wrong when they're not shouting at me..

[David Xanatos]

I don't like the argument that just because the thread is past X pages on day Y that we need to quicklynch someone.. it creates a mentality that can only benefit scum. That said, I do believe Andrew is the scummiest of the three (feasible) wagons.

[David Xanatos]

Who's, in your mind, in need of a lynch more than andrew then?

*posts written during/after this point on cider.. may become steadily more incomprehensebibble*

[David Xanatos]

The above was addressed to rainbow.

[David Xanatos]

I tried to pressurise Pere but not even you switched too add too that.,, why'd you not switch if you wanted to see it?

[David Xanatos]

Right then. Purely for interest, I'd like people to list the top 5 people they think deserve pressure/lynching. Let's not drag vigging etc into this just yet.. purely so we have a handle on where people stand.

[David Xanatos]

Shotty, are you seriously claiming Cop? -_-

[David Xanatos]

I seriously can't believe you've just claimed Cop on day 2.. with only one read.. in a Large..

[David Xanatos]

One for Cop is.

If you had stayed hidden for as long as possible, you'd have been able to confirm people as innocent, as well as finding scum.. -_-

If there's a Doc, don't reveal yourself, unless you hit L-1. Really.. we really don't need more VI PRs...

[David Xanatos]

The worst part is, I'm not sure if this makes him more or less scummy.. I.. can't believe that a Cop would actually claim D2 for no reason, with no goddamn pressure.

I'll need to think on this..

1: Andrew
2: Izak
3: Peregrine
4: Meran
5: Was Silver, now Shotty.

[David Xanatos]

Wait.. how'd you get from a Cop Guilty to MoI being Scum? o_0

[David Xanatos]

Nice catch.

Shotty, care to backpedal wildly?

[David Xanatos]

Users browsing this forum: Blackberry, Castle Bravo, Magua,

Oversoul

, Palisade, Wraith



Lrukgin scum is a bugger! :yarr:

I just don't see MOi as Scum tbh.. why'd he out Ansrew if he was?

MOTION SECONDED!

[David Xanatos]

What the fuck man? Are you taking the piss?

How the hell could you have a guilty read on Andrew, AND an innocent on MoI and Rainbow? That'd mean you scan every phase.. you're talking

utter shite

now..

[David Xanatos]

Day 2 Vote Count 8.1 (unofficial)

Silver 6 - Hipaddict, mysterio, Shotty, Junpei, Mera, MOI
Andrew 11 - THAdmiral, Banshee, Killer, Izak, Rodion, DavidX, Rainbowdash, Jackalope, CHKBallin, Castle, Nero

(L-2)

Izak 4 - ZeL1nk, Pinky, Silver, Pappums
Rodion 1 - Vezok
Oversoul 1 - PeregrineV

Not Voting

Andrew94
Oversoul

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

I'd rather not a lynch before Shotty explains what the hell he's playing at.

[David Xanatos]

Day 2 Vote Count 8.1 (unofficial)

Silver 5 - Hipaddict, mysterio, Junpei, Mera, MOI
Andrew 11 - THAdmiral, Banshee, Killer, Izak, Rodion, DavidX, Rainbowdash, Jackalope, Shotty, CHKBallin, Castle, Nero

(L-1)

Izak 4 - ZeL1nk, Pinky, Silver, Pappums
Rodion 1 - Vezok
Oversoul 1 - PeregrineV

Not Voting

Andrew94
Oversoul

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

Just realised Jason missed Shotty's vote.. noone hammer until Shotty answers.

[David Xanatos]

Goddamnit.. cocked it up

again

..

Day 2 Vote Count 8.1 (unofficial)

Silver 5 - Hipaddict, mysterio, Junpei, Mera, MOI
Andrew 12 - THAdmiral, Banshee, Killer, Izak, Rodion, DavidX, Rainbowdash, Jackalope, Shotty, CHKBallin, Castle, Nero

(L-1)

Izak 4 - ZeL1nk, Pinky, Silver, Pappums
Rodion 1 - Vezok
Oversoul 1 - PeregrineV

Not Voting

Andrew94
Oversoul

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

[David Xanatos]

I'll join you in that.

UNVOTE: Andrew

Shotty. Answers. Now.

[David Xanatos]

You'd smack someone want wanting to lynch a cop fakeclaim?

[David Xanatos]

Junpei, it's not a Cop hardclaim, unless for some bastardmoddery reason we have a cop who can investigate every night AND day. :/

[David Xanatos]

"a little convoluted"?

He's claimed a Guilty on one, and heavily implies an Innocent on two others.

[David Xanatos]

Strike that. He's apparently claiming a Cop/Rolecop spawn of God himself. He claims a

GUILTY

and then that you two are

VTs

..

[David Xanatos]

Which part do you buy?

And do you have any idea why Andrew kept referring to you in the context of determining people's alignments?

[David Xanatos]

Okay. I'm willing to trust your judgement on staying silent.. but whichever side of that claim, if any, is true, he's shot us in the foot by revealing himself for no reason.

[David Xanatos]

How exactly is wanting an explanation of a very suspect claim "fishing"?

[David Xanatos]

On B8 (Contest Board, GameFAQs), we did actually have Day-Roleblockers. So yes, and yes. And frankly, I don't see MoI as Scum. You haven't made a case on him. At all. Hell, you didn't even mention him until 2 and a half hours ago.

[David Xanatos]

Also, we've been through 2 day phases (We're nearing the end of the second, it can pretty much be considered "over") and only one Night phase. Shotty only delivered one read of Guilty/Innocent, and two of apparent Rolecop results. That implies either a night Cop or day Rolecop. He also declared MoI a "VT". So he's either a day Rolecop, and lying about Andrew to push the lynch, Night Cop, and lying about MoI and Rainbow, or he's neither, and is a troll.

[David Xanatos]

1: You're assuming they have a roleblocker.
2: You're assuming they don't have an Assassin or similar role.
3: You're assuming Rodion and MoI are Scum, despite others being rather town on Rodion and solidly Town on MoI.

[David Xanatos]

Pinky, what's your take on Castle's apparent belief in the 3 points listed?

[David Xanatos]

Next time I'm bomb, I'm copying this strategy. Win.

[David Xanatos]

But if Pappums was vengeful.. doesn't that mean the chance of Bomb is low?

[David Xanatos]

For the sake of my sanity.. can you guys tone down the confuzzling thingies? You're at about a 12.. I can handle about a 4 right now..

Seriously.. why did Oversoul claim, why are people believing that he isn't just trolling (Either he's trolling or has the worst fakeclaim ever), and what the hell is going on with CB?

[David Xanatos]

Nope.. not quite sure of that claim myself, I don't have much experience with redirection mechanics personally, but is it normal for the person to be warned that their action was redirected?

[David Xanatos]

VOTE: Oversoul

Just did a little poking around regarding redirection roles, general consensus is that they're never revealed to the person who was meddled with.. so I don't see any reason Oversoul should have gotten told.. coupled with a suspect claim already, I call bull.

Nero > Uuh.. how exactly are me and Silver linked? Or me and Fourseen? Or me and Bravo? Hell, even with Junpei we've only been bouncing ideas around and occasionally off each other... for you to draw lines there for no apparent reason is just .

[David Xanatos]

As far as I make it, Lynch..

Day 3 Vote count 2.0001 (unofficial)

Oversoul 11 - Rainbow, CHKBallin, ThAdmiral, Pinky, Shotty, David Xanatos, Mysterio, Jaka, Mera, Castle, Nero
Shotty 2 - MOI, Oversoul
Castle Bravo 3 - vezokpiraka, Rodion, killerjester
FourseenCircumstance 2 - Junpei, FourseenCircumstance

Not voting

PeregrineV,Banshee,ZeL1nK,izak,silverbullet999

[David Xanatos]

Misread, it's L-1

Day 3 Vote count 2.0001 (unofficial)

Oversoul 11 - Rainbow, CHKBallin, ThAdmiral, Pinky, Shotty, David Xanatos, Mysterio, Jaka, Mera, Castle, Nero
Shotty 2 - MOI, Oversoul
Castle Bravo 3 - vezokpiraka, Rodion, killerjester
FourseenCircumstance 2 - Junpei, FourseenCircumstance

Not voting

PeregrineV,Banshee,ZeL1nK,izak,silverbullet999

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch

With that in mind..

UNVOTE: Oversoul

I want a fullclaim. Now. The real one.

[David Xanatos]

He said he can use each action a maximum of 4 times.

I'm against a full claim until we get MoI's QT results.

Thanks, I had overlooked that!

So, Shotty, can you explain your actions in a simple format, please?

Something like:

"Pre-game - investigate ???
D1 -
N1 -
D2 -
N2 - kill Pappums
D3 -"

I also want explanations on why you decided to kill Pappums.

Pre Game- Rainbow Dash(Cop)
D1- MoI(Cop)
D2- Andrew(Cop)
N2- Pappums(Made Guard)
D3- ZeLinK(Cop)

Also mafia had to have hit me.
Each night I can choose a person to guard me, so if I am NK'd they are NK'd, but the trick is if I choose to use that ability during the night and no one tries to kill me I get majorly fucked. If I use it and I'm not targeted then not only can I not use an ability for the next two days, but I can also never use that ability again.

You did...

[David Xanatos]

You just put him at L-1. I hope you have a reason for that vote.. we want him to claim, we do not want a quick-hammer.
And we also want a claim from Shotty, which if there's a hammer, we won't get.

So yeah. Either give a damned good reason or unvote.

[David Xanatos]

And another amazing contribution from silver amounting to... fuck all.. -_-

[David Xanatos]

Obvious fakeclaim is obvious.

People have already said that the character was that in the show, more or less.. that's someone just looked at flavour and said "I'll fakeclaim X!" -_-

[David Xanatos]

If we have a Vig. I really doubt Zel1nk is, and the fact we've had no apparent Vig kills is making me think we don't..

[David Xanatos]

And why exactly should we leave him be? He's claimed Cop and Rolecop, along with essentially a redirect ability..

[David Xanatos]

I'm content with Rainbow's plan. Little busy at the moment, will post more of my thoughts when I can. I can only offer apologies for the reduced activity at the moment.

VOTE: Castle Bravo

[David Xanatos]

Minor thing before I go off again. Shotty, what're your reads on the field right now? The claim seems rather absurd, but your thoughts in general would be appreciated.

[David Xanatos]

I was going to ask CB but I get the feeling CB would just come back with further trolling.

Junpei > What was your track result?

MoI > What was Chk's N2 read? Assuming he told you. I'm assuming also you're willing to tell us to confirm another one of us, since you've done so for Rodion.

Izak > An SK at this point would have to have been blocked 2 nights in a row at least....

[David Xanatos]

I say Izak. You didn't bother even reading the thread before trying to get Rodion exposed to a potential bomb. So you should be the one to stick your neck out.

[David Xanatos]

Jak, better to have a suspect hammer in case it is a bomb. We might get lucky and have Scum blow themselves up.. better that than even a VT..

[David Xanatos]

Will do. I was thinking since it was L-2 it would be okay though, but granted, we could use Junpei..

UNVOTE:

And ChkBallin's second confirmation, now I think of it. You're basically CT now, due to lack of an apparent SK.. hopefully there's a living second.

[David Xanatos]

I was rather hoping noone else would have been idiotic enough to claim VT...

Jaka claimed VT too -_-

[David Xanatos]

Rodion's CT. Your Scumdar is broken.

[David Xanatos]

SK is unlikely to have been blocked /at least/ two night in a row. Mafia Doctor is unlikely in my eyes.. mainly through the fact we seem to be light on killing roles, which I'm taking from the fact there's only one kill that doesn't fit into either Lynch or Mafia kill.. therefore there's not likely to be a Mafia Doc. Therefore, he's as close to CT as we have right now, and I call a spade a spade.

[David Xanatos]

Even Shotty hasn't confirmed anyone. He's stated roles, not alignments. Vanilla could be Goon for example, since they're functionally the same, just on different sides..

[David Xanatos]

Magna > Did Chk confirm anyone else? If so, don't tell us who, but if it's a guilty, we do rather need to know. If there's an innocent, it's your call whether to tell us.

[David Xanatos]

1: No. I don't completely disbelieve it.. I think it's a failed gambit he's clawing desperately at.
2: To an extent, yes, but I see the merit in getting the Tracker information and potentially a Guilty from Chkballin's role.

[David Xanatos]

I'm still thinking about that.. I have a few thoughts but I want to ISO him again before I put it down. I'd rather take the time than look like an idiot..

[David Xanatos]

Meran just admitted to a gambit I think.. in other words, lying about being a bad thing to visit.. this after the Gunsmith is dead...

[David Xanatos]

ThAd > Do you disbelieve it in it's entirety, or do you think he may have one of the four but is gambitting with the "SuperJack" claim. (I have no idea what to call that, it's sure as hell not inventor.. and SuperJack is the term that springs to mind for something like that..)

[David Xanatos]

What about the rest of the field? Any views on the others who've been mentioned? Mera, CB, Izak?

[David Xanatos]

Are you being serious?

[David Xanatos]

We're talking about the same Izak, right?

The one who completely missed the fact Rodion was CT and kept pushing him as Scum?

And then as SK, which would require no less than two blocks in a row, on N1 and N2? I'd even say N3, as usually SK kills are more graphic than that..

[David Xanatos]

Granted, but if CB is Scum with Izak (A possibility), he'd know whether or not he's a bomb-type role, and therefore would offer purely because of the town-cred he'd get from it.

Edit: Goddamnit.. V/LA.. are we gonna wait for him?

@Mod: Did Junpei submit an action?

[David Xanatos]

Not too suspicious of KJ's claim.. does leave open the possibility of Scum PRs though.. and I've never come across Goon Cop before so.. gut reaction says it's not the sort of thing Scum would throw out on a whim..

I had a rather large post typed up on Izak but given KJ's claim, most of it's null unless Izak happens to be a PR, in which case, I pity the Scum team.

[David Xanatos]

KJ > You have three results still living, that's actually pretty good for us.

And I note that now Izak has dropped KJ, FC and Mysterio 3 points based on KJ's claim.. KJ I can understand, but if you felt someone was scummy before enough to warrant a 5/10, how can you justify dropping them 3 points based on an unconfirmed (Strictly speaking) claim that would only confirm they're non-Scum Goon?

And I love how MoI calling you on skimming is making you call him scummier. I think irony just died...

[David Xanatos]

Note: Especially when you've kept pushing Rodion as 3rd party despite the "No Gun" read.

[David Xanatos]

I suppose we have to answer this then..

Are we going to wait for Junpei to get back from V/LA, or will we go ahead with the CB lynch and get his results when he gets back?

[David Xanatos]

27th..

Goddamnit..

VOTE: Castle Bravo

I don't think it's worth waiting 6 days for him.. :/

[David Xanatos]

So what're we going to do, stare at each other for the next 6 days?

[David Xanatos]

I can't believe Rodion was so goddamn stupid as to break pretty much the cardinal rule of the game.. he was our only fecking CT and he blew himself up. -_- Anyone else planning to do something stupid? Claim Godfather perhaps? Declare themselves a perma-Roleblocked SK?

Izak? Care to declare your love of strange religion to us all?

[David Xanatos]

I just realised, and giggled.. anyone else find it appropriate that Sheldon was the one violating social principles and caused himself to be involved in a really Big Bang?

[David Xanatos]

I have to wonder that as well, and no Rainbow, that wasn't a result.. that was me just taking a light-ish swipe at Izak for his 3rd party Rodion thoughts, which are now, ironically, true.

I don't see this changing anything, I do believe CB is our best option today, unless something directly changes.

The only change from yesterday is we've lost 3 Town, a CT and 2 PRs.. we haven't learned anything new.

[David Xanatos]

That's what she said.

[David Xanatos]

I can't believe this shit.. we've already had to deal with a moronic CT blowing himself up, wasting our lynch, Castle Bravo playing silly buggers with a scum claim out of nowhere, and acting generally idiotic, and now we have to deal with the fact there's a fakeclaim/gambit/whatever the fuck you thought you were doing claiming to have discovered a flavour SK.. does anyone actually buy this claim?

PEdit: Oh my god Izak actually buys this claim.. why did I not see this coming?

[David Xanatos]

Where'd the unholy part come from?

And why's ThAd at 5? I actually find him rather Townish.. I don't see why you're null on him..

[David Xanatos]

I must say I don't like how easily Peregrine's shrugged off the demands for a fullclaim. Not sure who it makes look worse.. those who wanted it and immediately backed off, or him.

[David Xanatos]

If he is Town, how does letting the SK get another shot off help town? You might as well say that's the number of confirmed Townies by Shotty down by one..

[David Xanatos]

ZeL1nK, I can honestly say that I'm as befuddled at that claim as you are.

[David Xanatos]

Just to interject.. what're we going to do with Peregrine? Standard policy of if Shotty flips Role Cop as he claims, drop on Pere like the proverbial ton of bricks, or does anyone have a more subtle idea?

[David Xanatos]

Depends entirely on what you're dealing with. I favour the direct approach here myself but I'm open to a whimsical plan of action from Rainbow on the matter.

[David Xanatos]

Looks like we're in agreement then.

VOTE: Castle Bravo

[David Xanatos]

Unofficial Day 5 Vote Count

Castle 7 - Vezok, FourseenCircumstance, MagnaofIllusion, Banshee, Jakalope, Mysterio, David Xanatos
Shotty 3 - Rainbow, Peregrine, Izak
Peregrine 3 - Shotty, Castle Bravo, ZeL1nK

Spoiler: Vote History:

Izak - Castle Bravo, Peregrine, Shotty
Vezok - Castle Bravo
Jakalope - Castle Bravo, Shotty, Castle Bravo
Rainbow - Shotty
Banshee - Shotty, Castle Bravo
Peregrine - Shotty
Shotty - Peregrine
Castle Bravo - Peregrine
FourseenCircumstance - Castle Bravo
MagnaofIllusion - Castle Bravo
ZeL1nK - Peregrine
Mysterio - Castle Bravo
David Xanatos - Castle Bravo

[David Xanatos]

Because I get the feeling he's a counterattack role, and he can't counterattack himself..

[David Xanatos]

Well, that and the logistical problem of hammering yourself when you're not at L-1..

[David Xanatos]

Look at it this way.

If you move, we can make a non-useful, scummy player hammer. Then when CB flips Cultist, you can mock MoI, and we're lynching Shotty tomorrow.

Moving only makes your point get proven faster, no?

[David Xanatos]

That's your cue I guess Rainbow.

[David Xanatos]

Suit yourself I suppose.

On the vague offchance Shotty is what he says he is, who're we having him target, if he's still around tonight?

Jaka, you should revote Bravo. You're not really one of the higher scumreads, there's no gain in having you hit a bomb, even if you are VT as you claim.

ZeL1nK, why do you want to be the hammer?

[David Xanatos]

We're already lynching Shotty tomorrow. That's why I'm concerned with Rainbow's hesitation of this wagon, despite admitting that (In fact, being certain of it seems, given the wording), CB is going to flip non-Town.

And Jaka, that's the point. They're caught between a rock and a hard place.. if they refuse, they're a lynchee, if they do it, they risk going kaboom.

[David Xanatos]

Come to think of it, didn't Rainbow say something like "The cult was only able to recruit for two nights"?

[David Xanatos]

Hmm.. I'll grant you that it could be an SK, but why do you say specifically the first two nights? I mean, unless the Cult started with multiple members (which is my experience doesn't happen with a Recruiter), that would mean they have maximum 3 members. Why would they choose to start killing rather than continuing to recruit?

[David Xanatos]

Something just occurred to me.

Could it be a number cap as opposed to a time-cap?

Like.. must have so many "cultists" to gain the ability, and if they lose one they need to recruit to refill?

I'm barely awake right now but it crossed my mind, so I thought I'd mention it, since it runs in a similar vein to what you're saying..

All of this depends on there being a cult to begin with though, so there's a fair degree of Wine to get through to get to this point, but it's worth considering.

Is it normal for Cults to instantly change the alignment, or would a cultist flip what they were prior to recruitment? As in, does it become a secondary wincon or overwrite the primary?

[David Xanatos]

Also, if they're limited by time in recruitment, would it be likely for them to all die upon the recruiter's death? I can see it being one or the other, but not both really. It would essentially cripple the faction if they're caught coming and going..

[David Xanatos]

ThAd > What's your opinion of Shotty tomorrow? Or do you think it should go Pere-> Shotty?

[David Xanatos]

No, no it's not. Frankly, at this point I couldn't give a damn who hammers as long as it isn't MoI, ThAd or, to an extent, Rainbow. Those are my three strongest Town reads, so meh.

I'm going to bed. I've just met 7am from the wrong direction. >.>

[David Xanatos]

Where does it explicitly say cult is not forbidden? o_0

[David Xanatos]

Uhm.. does your role let you shoot at someone who wasn't on your wagon? I thought Vengefuls were only able to pick from those who voted for them?

[David Xanatos]

Ah, wait. No, just looked it up. Never came across that before.. my mistake.

[David Xanatos]

Is he sitting at L-1 now then, or was that a hammer?

Got contacts in, hurting my eyes to watch the screen but been trying to follow. Not sure what to make of Shotty's claim that Silver's a JK, play doesn't fit, JK wouldn't offer himself as known Town JK for someone who was claiming 3rd party JK. Doesn't make sense.

Willing to hammer if there's nothing else we need today. Won't be around for next half hour, taking these blasted things out.

[David Xanatos]

So you've done no analysis, admit to not reading, and yet hammered.. depriving us of more information, reads and opinions..

Smart. -_-

[David Xanatos]

Oh? 111 pages of people's stances/thoughtsreads now that CB's exploded and Shotty's degraded into vague babble of about forty gambits imploding?

Preventing people from giving reads only helps Scum. Hell, Shotty's claimed JK on Silver, which I'd like to see his reaction to. I personally don't believe it, but a reaction would have been useful as an indicator of Silver's stance.

[David Xanatos]

Who's "Frozen Mirror"? o_0

[David Xanatos]

Eh, I feel useful claiming here. My name is Michael Guerin and I am the town's Goon Cop.

Izak, Mysterio, and fourseen are

not

vanilla goons, respectively investigated on nights 1, 2, and 3. That's all I know.

4] Do not quote any private mod/player communications. Do not pretend to quote private mod/player communications. Doing so will result in a modkill. Be careful how you word your claim, coming too close to role PM will result in a Mod Kill.

Lastly, I think that's how shotty should die btw.

From there.

At the time though I did consider that Fourseen could have been trying to draw a Cop investigation, which might imply GF, but frankly I can't see him picking up on a potential tactic like that.. so I'm forced to conclude VI. If he was trying to draw the NK, I don't think he'd be so obvious why "Why aren't I dead yet" and similar. :/

[David Xanatos]

I just.. from what I've seen of him, do you think he'd be likely to work out a strategy like that? :/

Why were you suggesting Peregrine over Shotty yesterday by the way? It seemed rather out of place..

[David Xanatos]

Either of the two as in Pere?

Hmm.. from your wording it implies you're wanting Peregrine lynched.. as though you think he's better than Shotty as a target..

[David Xanatos]

Well.. there is one mitigating factor here.

Silver, are you actually JK? If you are, fullclaim. If you've blocked Pere on the nights there was no religious kill, then we'll lynch him today.

[David Xanatos]

The Shotty part was implied really.

And I thought not. Had to cover that base, just in case you were actually blocking an SK.

I'd be inclined to think Mysterio if we're going by that VCA, or Peregrine. Shotty could easily have been pulling that so we'd ignore Pere as an option later, because he was attacked by someone who turned out Scum..

[David Xanatos]

Zelink wasn't tracker. He claimed Vig.

[David Xanatos]

Why?

[David Xanatos]

I believe he refers to the top tier of Fourseen and Mysterio..

[David Xanatos]

I think we may have to look at Shotty's "clears" too. I honestly can't believe that there's no ulterior motive for that.. and there may be a wolf among the sheep.

[David Xanatos]

Strike that. Most of Shotty's "clears" are dead, only ZeL1nK and Silver remain.. Not sure how to take that personally but I honestly can't say they're high on my suspicions list..

[David Xanatos]

Top Tier (aka most scummy) of 1.925 –

Mysterio

,

Fourseen

,

Shotty

Second Tier (in the 1.8s) –

Vezok

,

David

,

Jakalope

,

Nero

,

Meran

,

Peregrine

,

Silver

Low Tier (below 1.8) –

Izak

,

Zel1nk

Colour coded for your convenience.

Blue = Not a Goon.
Purple = Non-confirmed VT claim with no other factor.
Green = MoI had down as clear.
Red = Shotty.

Looking at that, going by Silver's suggestion, the logical pool should be Vezok, Jakalope, Peregrine and Silver himself.

I'm going to ISO them again.. as it stands now, if I had to pick one immediately, it would be Peregrine. Next would likely be Jaka, then Vezok, then Silver. Silver's gave me a better feeling as the game has progressed.. and he's moved somewhat away from being a VI..

[David Xanatos]

Top Tier (aka most scummy) of 1.925 –

Mysterio

,

Fourseen

,

Shotty

Second Tier (in the 1.8s) –

Vezok

,

David

,

Jakalope

,

Nero

,

Meran

,

Peregrine

,

Silver

Low Tier (below 1.8) –

Izak

,

Zel1nk

,

Banshee

Colour coded for your convenience.

Blue = Not a Goon.
Purple = Non-confirmed VT claim with no other factor.
Green = MoI had down as clear.
Red = Shotty.

Fixed. I think.

[David Xanatos]

Having looked back, I'm moderately content with pressure on Peregrine to explain his actions around the SK claim.. Shotty seems the type to accuse a partner of being anti-Town for the sake of them being overlooked on his flip.

[David Xanatos]

With that said..

VOTE: Peregrine

[David Xanatos]

Oh, and for the record. Jaka, the reason you're above Vezok on my suspicions is that you've seemed very.. neutral in this game. From what I've seen, you've went along with the crowd for the most part.. that may be partly because of your being a replacement, but it makes you stand out somewhat to me.

Vezok was.. strange earlier, and appears rather stubborn now, but makes the occasional good point and doesn't seem bothered about "stirring the pot", as it were. I'm still mulling over the comment about the Mafia not losing anything by outing an SK..

While I'm thinking about it. Is anyone bulletproof? I'm just considering the possibility that the SK's found a Bulletproof player to attack repeatedly to lay low.

[David Xanatos]

I'd like to know that too..

If Fourseen wasn't confirmed as non-Goon, I'd lynch him like a shot.. I don't think he's contributed to the game more than Vifam did before replacing out..

[David Xanatos]

7 times actually, by my count.

And when he has voted, he's backed it up with reasoning.

Care to explain your reasoning behind attacking him for a low total number of votes?

[David Xanatos]

On what basis?

[David Xanatos]

Headcount here:

How many people would, despite the initial lynch pool, be willing to lynch Fourseen, despite him being a confirmed non-Goon? If so, say "Aye" in thread, or just directly vote for him. If we consider him a viable lynch for today, it may be worth it purely for his actions. His lurking and trying to coast through may actually mean he's a Scum PR and laying low.

Seriously Fourseen. Give your reasoning, or else. This is beyond a joke now.

[David Xanatos]

Then why the hell did you vote to begin with?

How can you not have anything to say about any of the possible candidates? Are you even vaguely paying attention to this game?

[David Xanatos]

Presumably, providing people with information they may otherwise have missed so they can draw their own conclusions... better having it than not.

[David Xanatos]

Silver, I fail to see your point here.. are you seriously suggesting that the fact Banshee went off and checked Fourseen's meta is a

bad

thing?

That said, Banshee, you say he'd be more lurky.. he was, right up until the point he was directly called on it. Which was around the time the Scum were exposing themselves en-masse... could have been a knee-jerk reaction to look more pro-town, but he's fallen (mostly) back into lurking since there, with useless comments and actions..

[David Xanatos]

To be fair, meta's rarely directly provided unless asked for, as there are many who don't trust it. (For good reason. Very easy to throw off meta by purposefully playing a certain way in certain games.)

[David Xanatos]

I'm rather curious, as this is the second time you've posted reads citing me as Scum without expanding on why you're thinking this.. any particular reason or is this simply a case of "I'll repeat it often so people believe there's an argument behind it"?

[David Xanatos]

I just ISOed you.. you haven't mentioned me in over a month, and you were marking me down as Town there, and a "soft target". Any particular reason for the apparent 180 that you've taken?

And you make an interesting case on Mysterio, but he was confirmed non-Goon by KJ.. do you believe he's Scum PR?

[David Xanatos]

L-3 by my count.. why are you announcing intent to hammer so early? o_0

[David Xanatos]

For what, pray? Calling you on being absolutely useless and jumping on bandwagons with literally no reason, and admitting to same? You've been trying to coast this entire time, without giving any input, and accusing others of slacking. Hypocrisy at it's highest.

And as an amusing little fact, myself and Jakalope aren't even on your wagon right now. I still felt, up to this point, that Pere would be the wiser lynch. Your continued non-contributions have changed that somewhat.

UNVOTE: Peregrine
VOTE: Fourseen

[David Xanatos]

I still want an answer from Izak about his hammer comment by the way..

[David Xanatos]

Fourseen's gone into Castle Bravo mode, basically.

[David Xanatos]

ZeL1nK - Shotty mostly. The way I see it, there are three scenarios.

1: Shotty found an SK. This would explain the strange kills.. and typically SKs are immune to Night-Kills (At least, in other games I've played. Never seen much SK action on this site, so don't know if this holds true here). This could have been reflected in the role Shotty saw as Mafia. If this is true, the only way to eliminate the SK would be by lynch, which would also benefit the Town. (So far, the SK would have hit our Tracker and Gunsmith, which doesn't suggest trying to be pro-Town in the slightest.)

2: Shotty was covering for a Scum Buddy by using his last flail to attack him. This could easily lead Town to ignoring him as an unlikely possibility, precisely because it was Shotty who declared it.

3: Shotty's trying to frame Town. This would be an outside chance, as it would require him to expect Town to believe him after his flip.

I personally feel 1 or 2 is more likely, due to Peregrine's reaction to it. Mocking acceptance strikes me more as something done to brush it off with a smirk.. dismiss the claim offhand and try to get people to focus elsewhere. I don't see Town Peregrine being so.. I can't really think of the word.. aloof?

I'm finding it hard to express my thoughts here, not feeling great. If you don't understand what I mean, I'll take another shot with different words, but I hope I've got that point across.

As for Silver.. I originally thought VI rather than Scum, now that he's calmed down a little, I'm reading him a mild Town. I still have misgivings, but in honesty, his play's better than others I could mention.

And Fourseen appears to be channeling Shotty. He's refusing to explain his votes, then saying he doesn't have an explanation, and now he's self-voting, with a vague attempt at misdirection to myself and Jakalope for... calling him on his actions? I find myself wondering why he's appears to be loathe to explain himself and his reads.. it's certainly not pro-town, and it's not even pro-Fourseen at this point. If one of the non-Goons is Scum, I can see Fourseen being much more likely than Mysterio, personally.

[David Xanatos]

Also, Izak, fair enough.. it did stand out to me though, just thought I'd ask.

[David Xanatos]

Anything else you're willing to share?

Of the lynch pool (Silver, Jaka, Peregrine, Fourseen, Vezok) right now, how would you order them 1-5, 1 being scummiest?

[David Xanatos]

Yeah, second tier, unconfirmed either way. Personally my own pool would be Fourseen or Peregrine. I honestly don't see any of the others as having even close to the potential to be Scum as those two.

[David Xanatos]

Please.. on the outskirts of a chance that you are Town, I'd be thrilled about having you in endgame as Scum. You're either Scum, or Town that's idiot enough to cast a vote without thinking in 3 man LyLo.

[David Xanatos]

For you to sit here and whine about Scum being on your wagon is ridiculous when you're the least goddamn useful player in this game, no matter what your alignment. The only possible excuse for lurking at this point is being Scum, and PR at that. In which case, I fucking feel sorry for the Scum-Team, having Oversoul, Andrew, Shotty and YOU as allies.

[David Xanatos]

Vezok > Why only those two?

[David Xanatos]

I agree. I fail to see why we're waiting for a /third/ VCA. There's only so many ways you can rearrange the names. -_-

Anyone following the game has likely drawn their own conclusions from the two so far.

[David Xanatos]

It's possible, but it requires something special in terms of balance. I do remember seeing a game that ran on "Insanity", normal PRs gained Insanity when they used their abilities, the SK gained it when he didn't.. if you hit certain levels, you had negative effects.. slightly irrelevant here but I have seen it..

[David Xanatos]

I'd support that, although I doubt there's much left.. :/

When you say tomorrow, do you mean day 9 or literally tomorrow?

[David Xanatos]

Not that I'm aware of, but there's no sense 2 or 3 of us doing it before the others check in.

Popcorn I assume? If so, I'd put down Peregrine as my vote for the first claim.

[David Xanatos]

I've seen a list agreed on prior to the claims, and just running down that list. Thought I'd ask on the offchance I'd have to prepare my own list for it.

[David Xanatos]

I agree, but I'm simply saying that's an alternative method I've used before in a game. Far better to clarify it at the beginning than give anyone a potential "out" by claiming they didn't understand, no?

[David Xanatos]

Of course, but that wasn't posted before I asked.

Regardless..

VOTE: Peregrine

Still don't like. Also dislike the request to use all 20 days, discussion takes as long as it needs to, dragging out days for the sake of dragging out the days causes apathy and flaking, that's not pro-town in the slightest.

[David Xanatos]

Exactly. I don't understand why, unless there's something specific in mind, you'd ask to use the entire time. Perhaps early-on, when there's a lot of discussion and information, but at this point we're basically boiling down to a mass-claim.

[David Xanatos]

Yup.. lazy bastards.

[David Xanatos]

Tried searching for Jason's name?

I have a seperate folder for all my role PMs..

[David Xanatos]

Father Ted Crilly, Vanilla Town.

There was no mention in my flavour of Dougal being here, not sure if Silver's faking or if Jason just really liked Father Ted. (Can't blame him, I have all of them on my laptop. :wub:)

[David Xanatos]

Hmm.. Silver claims not to know who Dougal is.. not sure if serious.. in my flavour it actually explains a little bit about Ted's backstory (About being the lead priest, entering the Eurovision that was rigged to stop Ireland winning et cetera), if Silver's claiming not to know him, that would mean there was no flavour.. :/

Oh, and Mysterio next.

[David Xanatos]

I was suspicious since they were so closely linked but I just realised that Rodion and CB's characters were both from the same show too.. completely missed that at the time.. guess we have to wait on Mysterio now.

[David Xanatos]

It appeared relevant at the time, and realistically we're waiting on Mysterio who has sporadic posting..

[David Xanatos]

Well, we're guarenteed an answer in ~48h at least, because either he'll answer the prod or be replaced..

[David Xanatos]

Okay.. never seen LOST but isn't Desmond a character from that too?

Yeah, my thoughts that Silver was fakeclaiming are gone now.

@Mod: Can you pause the prod timer while the mass-claims are happening, within reason? A mass-prod to those who haven't replied yet would be nice though.

[David Xanatos]

I'd personally prefer waiting in honesty, due to the fact it's a popcorn..

[David Xanatos]

Why would a Scum PR claim? It would draw focus onto them because of the number of Town PRs already flipped, no?

[David Xanatos]

Or we could continue until then, and force a claim out of the replacement as soon as they arrive?

Better use of time, less twiddling our thumbs.

[David Xanatos]

I believe it rather comes down to Pere or Silver too.. I can't see all of Shotty's reveals to us being accurate and honest, and those two were the ones liable to actually be covers.. I'd wager Peregrine over Silver though, due to the circumstances. Claim an SK hit that's so unbelievable that Town write off the person you tried to "frame"..

[David Xanatos]

My vote's already on Peregrine.

[David Xanatos]

Well you're looking at 2 votes more minimum to get a Silver lynch. Assuming Mera votes for Silver next time he checks in. I wouldn't mind a Silver lynch, but while there's a chance of a Pere lynch, I'm keeping my vote steady. I don't like his "What Scum role am I?" question. Comes off as trying to deflect by causing someone to make a specific allegation so he can attack it as a strawman.

[David Xanatos]

In my mind, one of the two is Scum. I can see Shotty using the SK thing as a way of protecting a teammate, as the WIFOM surrounding him trying to get him lynched as an SK would cause a lot of people to dismiss the possibility.

[David Xanatos]

Why specifically the hammer?

[David Xanatos]

So you're saying you're not going to place a vote unless it's a hammer? o_0

That seems rather silly actually..

[David Xanatos]

That's true.

Primarily through the double negative.

And I've already said that until the other few have checked in, I'm keeping my vote on Peregrine. I think he's more likely to be our Scum.

[David Xanatos]

VOTE: Silver

Yeah. That crossed the line.

[David Xanatos]

And frankly, I don't see what more we gain from a third VCA. Each of us has undoubtedly taken our own look at the VCA from MoI, and drawn our own conclusions based on the VCs. Waiting for each and every person to compile a list is redundant.. especially when, in this case, Peregrine was actually advocating stalling out for 20 days just to "use" the deadline. -_-

[David Xanatos]

He's already had 2 weeks minus the 48 hours spent on the Night phase.. saying that another day should be plenty is letting him continue to coast, essentially, and achieve his aim of delaying the game even further.

I lost patience with him after he hadn't finished it in ~5 days, then used the Night as an excuse for same..

[David Xanatos]

Yeah..

*throws up the Mera signal in the clouds*

[David Xanatos]

This is Silver's meta.. he flips out under pressure.. this seems to be par for the course for him no matter what alignment.

[David Xanatos]

I think Mera just softclaimed Dodgy as All Hell.

Wanting to, specifically, be the hammer, then admitting backing out just in case Silver's Town and is listened to.. that's far too dodgy in my eyes. :/

[David Xanatos]

VOTE: Meransiel

I really, really do not like the "Let me hammer, let me hammer!" and then as soon as Silver puts a bit of suspicion on him, backing away as far as possible. Screams of focus on nothing but self preservation there..

[David Xanatos]

I'd love to say Pere but in complete honesty, that almost looney-tunes-like skidding stop by Meransiel made him rocket up my suspicion list.. :/

[David Xanatos]

Are you saying that there's nothing whatsoever about Meransiel's complete grind to a halt and backpedal over Silver when Silver put focus on him?

[David Xanatos]

How exactly is the Meran vote "unsubstantiated"?

He left a bigger skid mark than Wile E. Coyote when Silver put a spotlight on him. There's no reason for Town to react like that in the slightest.

[David Xanatos]

Because we've had two Vengefuls, and Silver's record for martyrdom would make me think twice about bomb possibilities. Also, at this late stage, fears of Silver being taken seriously could factor into it.

[David Xanatos]

The question is, why did you make such a skidding halt as a VT then? That action doesn't fit with having no power beyond the vote.

PEdit: And for that matter, a complete reversal in stance between wanting to hammer then declaring the person is Scum is quite dodgy in itself.

[David Xanatos]

Sorry, 6am from the wrong side sleeping on and off..

You thought Silver was Scum, you wanted to hammer, then you completely flipped your stance and started professing him to be Town, with barely a nod of explanation beyond saying "I don't think what he did would be something Scum would do.".

I could, given a short time, likely find Scum playing any way.. hell, I've seen Scum continue to profess innocence and declaring who the "real" scum are for pages past their lynch into twilight..

[David Xanatos]

And on that note, I think I should go back to bed..

[David Xanatos]

Care to justify that opinion? Or is this just you trying to sheep your buddy at MyLo?

[David Xanatos]

As I said, I'd be happy with Peregrine or Meransiel, but Meran would be my preference after yesterday. I want to hear Vezok's justification for the sheeping, but it set off warning bells about a Mera-Vezok partnership. Gonna have to re-read, see how they acted towards each other.

[David Xanatos]

We then need to decide who. You're out, as is Nero in my mind. That leaves Banshee, Jaka, Vezok, Peregrine and Meran. Listed as Town-Scum as I read them..

Wouldn't mind seeing other's reads, so we can identify where we stand.

[David Xanatos]

Silver has meta for pulling the martyr card, and he did it on D1 too. That plays well for a Vengeful.

And believe me, when Fourseen went into a nosedive, for a time I was entertaining the notion of another vengeful.

[David Xanatos]

Care to back that up with examples?

Are you trying to say that trying to get more information, like when Shotty first threw out that idiotic claim, or wanting a real claim from Oversoul, is somehow a bad thing? o_0

[David Xanatos]

So unvoting Oversoul to get more information from Shotty about his dodgy as all hell claim is somehow irrelevant? Are you advocating ignoring elephants in rooms just because you're identified one scum for the day? The more information we get at any given time, the better we can react to things the following day, and the better we can place any relevant PRs.

[David Xanatos]

By the way. This is not mylo, because we have 2 anti-town factions.

Slip from Mera? I can't see Town making such a direct statement with such apparent certainty.. I can see Scum all over it though.

1: Throws Town off due to trying to reignite the Cult paranoia, which in my mind is now solidly negated.
2: Is basically saying to Town "Oh don't worry you can mislynch again and be fine"...

I'd say this was a softclaim if we all hadn't claimed VT. As it stands, I see no reasonable explanation for that from a Townie..

[David Xanatos]

I'm wondering where the hell the X-Shot SK idea came from. That's a Vig. A Serial Killer is a Compulsive Vig with his own wincon.. making it X-Shot stops it being Serial...

With that in mind, how the hell can Meransiel be A: Sure that Shotty was being truthful about Pere and B: That the SK has no shots remaining.

If you believe Mera is Scum, this opens two possibilities..

1: Both Mera and Peregrine are Scum, Shotty called Pere an SK as a gambit, knowing he wouldn't be believed and therefore making Pere look good, Meransiel would be continuing this by jumping on the advantageous X-Shot theory..

2: Meran's putting himself in a friendly position with the SK to avoid Pere's kill(s) if he has any remaining. I recall Mera saying he didn't want a Doc to visit him earlier in the game, which at the time made me think either PGO or Bulletproof.. if he happens to be Scum BP, that could mean Pere's been using him to soak up the kills at Night to stay under the radar.. note than Meransiel actually said that Kills were okay to send at him, as were investigations.. if this is the case, I think he was gambling on either the Cop not targetting him, or claiming Miller BP..

In addition, if Meran thinks Peregrine is X-Shot, why is he against lynching him?

If he's X-Shot non-compulsive, I think it'd be likely he'd hold back a shot for endgame, to avoid a 1-1 loss situation if it's him and one Scum left, and salvage a dual win or draw, depending on how Jason decided.

Anyway. First day back at Uni tomorrow.. going to bed for now.

[David Xanatos]

Can someone define what's wrong with my logic?

I don't see it, but that may be just my view. If someone can explain (preferably Izak if possible) then I'll take on board what they say and argue the point if needed.

[David Xanatos]

By the way. This is not mylo, because we have 2 anti-town factions.

This is where the Cult paranoia comment came from.
There hasn't been 2 shots every night, so 2 mafia/werewolf factions are out. That leaves a Cult, as it's the only other possible anti-town Faction.

[David Xanatos]

Oh, and note how the person who's saying there are two Scum groups (despite no evidence of it), and therefore it not being MyLo(Which if there aren't two Scum groups, it is most likely) is the person advocating lynching me, because when I flip Town, he's guarenteed scum. And if he's lying about there being two scum groups (Which I'd put money on), then he wins by mislynching me.

[David Xanatos]

Mafia Vig makes much more sense to me than an X-Shot SK. I have

never

come across an X-Shot SK. It would defy the point. I'm not sure where that leaves us with regard to Peregrine though.. would Shotty throw an SK accusation on his Vig buddy?

And you, very specifically, said, "It is not MyLo because there are two anti-Town factions."

The only other anti-Town Faction would be either Werewolves (No Werewolf theme kill, no Seers, nothing to suggest them.), a second Mafia Family (No second kills apart from those two), or a Cult of some variety (At this point, with no Cultist kills, we'd have lost if this was the case).

In other words, it's

you

who is wildly speculating on setup with "There are two anti-Town factions", and trying to lead us into another mislynch.

[David Xanatos]

I can see it, personally, but the Meransiel stuff has me convinced Meransiel is Scum..

Peregrine is 90% likely to be Scum in my eyes. As buddies I'd have to say Mera and possibly Vezok. I'm not sure about Vezok, but the sheeped vote just rubbed me the wrong way.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

[David Xanatos]

UNVOTE:

Just realised Jason got the last VC wrong. Nero's voting for him.. don't want to put him at L-2 until I check a few things.

Jason: Yea, Sorry. Missed the vote.

[David Xanatos]

Meh.. I suppose I am being a little over-paranoid about a quicklynch.

VOTE: Peregrine

I need to do a bit of Uni work now, if the Lynch happens before I get on again, and I'm NKed, Meransiel is my #1 for tomorrow.

[David Xanatos]

Okay. Show me an SK with X-Shots.

I've never seen one and there's nil about it on the wiki. So provide precedent and I

may

entertain the notion.

[David Xanatos]

Are you serious?

Shotty would want to out an SK instantly, because they tend to be BP.

However, by claiming someone's an SK, and if those kills stopped, he then looks like he was trying to cause a mislynch, giving that person some Town-Cred.

Therefore, a Mafia Vig would be covered because of the kills stopping, and the supposition that Shotty was lying.

[David Xanatos]

Jaka > All we're doing here is going around in circles.. more time isn't likely to solve that.

Mera > Shotty was already dead. It's not unreasonable to assume that his last actions would be an attempt at sowing discord and protecting a buddy in doing so.

[David Xanatos]

Wait.

You say he's the SK.

And then say that lynching him means we lose.

After asserting that it isn't MyLo because there are "two anti-town factions".

Make your goddamn mind up which bullshit story you're attempting to feed us before trying it.. -_-

[David Xanatos]

And if Peregrine's an SK...

Town lynch Town, 2/1/4 remaining.

SK has a shot held back. Hits Town. 2/1/3

Mafia shoots Town. 2/1/2

Town Lose basically by default at that point.

[David Xanatos]

By the way. This is not mylo, because we have 2 anti-town factions.

This is where the Cult paranoia comment came from.

There hasn't been 2 shots every night, so 2 mafia/werewolf factions are out. That leaves a Cult, as it's the only other possible anti-town Faction.

I see nothing about a cult. Not sure if a mafia HAS to kill each night so I wouldn't rule them out.

How do you go from "Meran scum sliped"/"O NOES, she's bringing the cult parinioa back" to "Yeah there

IS

a cult"?

I've explained this. Meran very specifically said there were two scum factions. The only **factions** could be Mafia, Werewolf or Cult. Unless a Mafia group had decided to no-kill or has been blocked somehow 6 times, there's little chance of it.

Also, two scum groups would mean the kills would be differentiated most likely. It's very rare for groups to have the same flavour.

Oh, and note how the person who's saying there are two Scum groups (despite no evidence of it)

I disagree that there's no evidence. The only evidence is that there are 2 unclaimed kills. An weren't you the oe that was yelling about Pere being an SK earlier?

By this point, there's only been 2 kills over 8 nights.. I really doubt the SK-ness by this point unless there's a BP, and since everyone claimed VT, must be a Scum BP if at all possible.

[David Xanatos]

Pere's at the top of his list.. and I don't see a vote.

Still don't consider an SK a "Faction" by any means. They're self-aligned, there is no "faction" there..

</rant?>

[David Xanatos]

You're forgetting something Izak.

I think I played rather well in honesty xD

Oh, and Andrew was useless. As was Oversoul..

Shotty at least injected a little confusion, but that wouldn't have been needed if he hadn't buggered it up in the first place..

Seriously.

Scum could have had Daytalk if it wasn't for Andrew neighbourising the most pro-Town player in the game.. and then a Town PR..

[David Xanatos]

You're still forgetting something!