Open 329: Mayo Clinic D3: Town WINS!

[izakthegoomba]

VOTE: Thomith

So we meet again, old foe.

[izakthegoomba]

One day you will be at my mery, Thomith. We will see who is laughing then.

BWAHAHAHAHA

[izakthegoomba]

You bet

[izakthegoomba]

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, I'll stop now.

But you may keep my vote as an eternal reminder...

[izakthegoomba]

ok it was Newbie 1102 and i led a lynch on izak day 2 for basically no reason and won the game with Noramp as scum because of town deciding to lynch the IC.

I was scum with Noramp and lived and Izak was town and died day 2.

Scum won the game.

This, plus the fact tht I had Noramp pegged as scum and, if I had lived into the LyLo, I would have made a mega-huge push for a Noramp lynch. However, it wouldn't have mattered, because I had Thomith down as town, and nothing would have changed it. Thomith makes one great scumbag.

So to cut a long story short, I haven't quite got over the way Thomith screwed me over I that game.

[izakthegoomba]

For those questions:

1. I've played in about nine games on-site including ongoing ones, not counting this. I've also played in two F2F games, and modded three of them. Off-site, I've played in one game, but it can't really be counted.

Spoiler: Here's why

This was it's setup.

Tracker
Bulletproof
Mason x2
Doctor
Sensor
Beloved Princess
Inventor
Bodyguard
Unlynchable
Nexus
Judas
Double Voter
Vigilante
Bus Driver
Roleblocker
Cop
Bomb
Gravedigger
Voteless
Lightning Rod
Announcer

Godfather
Mafia Spy
Mafia Muscle
Mafia Hitman
Mafia Janitor
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Deputy

Jester
Cult Leader
Serial Killer
Survivor
Kidnapper

Plus two more the mod didn't bother revealing.

2. It is entirely dependent on the situation, but more often than not, yes. I doubt we are going to find a breaking strategy, but we can at least maximise our chances. Not right away though; the Vigs should claim at what seems like the best time from their point of view, as pro-town players.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, there's this little thing called

balance

.

[izakthegoomba]

Uh... That was a forum game.

[izakthegoomba]

Well I would LOVE to mod that setup, but I played it in a crap section of a crap forum with a bunch of crap players. It may work better here.

@Piggy that's a hard one. I've only played as townie, doctor, and goon, but given the choice, I would want one of the following.

Godfather, especially with a big scumteam. Call me a power-hungry ego-centric maniac but... Oh, wait...

Dayvig. I just want to have a massive, drawn-out argument with someone over their scumminess, shoving them into a corner, and finshing them off with a dayvigging. Even better if they actually

are

scum.

Jester. Sorry, being brutally honest here. As much as all the other players would hate the mod for it, I would take a guilty pleasure in all the trickery and faking involved. Maybe I would like to get this just once...

[izakthegoomba]

<3

[izakthegoomba]

Sure, I've been wanting to hydra for a while now. Let's do it after this game though, I've already got three running. And we should play a large theme - something really crazy.

Anyway, back to the game.

[izakthegoomba]

Announcer can send the mod a message to anonymously forward to a player of the announcer's choice.

Kidnapper is a truly godawful third-party role which the mod seemed to have thought up on the spot. It can kidnap someone each night, and they are barred from posting unless the kidnapper dies. The kidnapper has to kidnap a certain role (in this case, "Goomba" - it was a Nintendo-themed game), of which there is only one out of about 36 players, and the kidnapper is given no clue as to who has it.

Also, there was a role called "Magician". I replaced it with "Bus Driver" for that list, because it seemed the most likely substitute given the night results. But then, in a game like that...

I was the Gravedigger, who can transform into any dead role. The SK got lynched D1, and I transformed into it N1 for the lulz. Then I shot the bomb the next night. Oops.

[izakthegoomba]

As the day went on, many had yet to say even a word. The situation had brought some closer together--two of them even fell in love--but most were too in shock to speak up.

[/color]

im loving this flavor

O yeah, toasty is awesome.

<3 glad to be a part of the lovefest

[izakthegoomba]

Maybe we should hydra without telling anyone, then. See if they notice.

More seriously, yeah, let's go for the vig claim.

[izakthegoomba]

It's a risk. It might pay off. It might not.

[izakthegoomba]

Glowball's reaction is exactly what I would expect from scum faced with this. We need everyone on board for it to work.

Glowball, if you are not with us, you are against us. We will lynch you, catch a scum, then proceed with the vig claims - only with better odds of success than before.

UNVOTE: Thomith
VOTE: Glowball

[izakthegoomba]

glowball, when we were scum together, I knew we were dead about five posts into D1, when everyone was voting in favour of a mass protection-claim. Everything from that point onwards was a desperate struggle to live another phase - especially after I had to bus jilynne to death.

Besides, this isn't sheeping, it's my opinion. We need every player who could possibly be useful on side for this strategy to work. The only good reason for you not to want a vig claim is that you are scum.

[izakthegoomba]

Also, glowball, we don't give a damn about your meta. Regardless of how you have acted in the past, you being against a vig claim is an incredibly anti-town move.

PEdit: whoa, you think all the scum will claim vig? Not a hope in hell. Scum and vigs shooting eachother every night is A VERY GOOD THING - we will kill scum on at least one night, probably two, and receive sufficient info to hunt the rest of them in the day, and do our protection trains every night.

[izakthegoomba]

Sorry, but that's a load of crap. Our vigs shoot at the scum. The scum shoots at our vigs. They end up killing off big chunks of each other - with a little bit of luck, the SK takes out a scum for us, too. Meanwhile, we set up a protection circle of those who didn't claim vig, and use info gained from that to out the last of the scum. That is the best way we can use the protective roles.

PEdit: kinda ninja'd a few times, but I'll post the above anyway. And glowball's latest post? Just giving up like that? It just screams "lynch me".

PEdit again: Toasty's flavour is awesome, I get all the bet bits

[izakthegoomba]

Oh my god, glowball. Did you just illustrate a single path which this game could take, and expect us to take it as divine prophecy? Too much fail.

Confirm vote: glowball

[izakthegoomba]

glowball, we cannot have a concise plan because it all hinges on the vig claims, and later, the NKs. But the planning we have done is more than sufficient for now. Of course there is a way for it to go wrong, but that is meaningless. I challenge you to find a plan that could not possibly go wrong... No? Didn't think so. Pointing out individual flaws in a plan while having no good reason for it to fail is VERY anti-town. I suppose you are trying to instruct your scukbuddies, in case you don't get to talk to them again. And unless you change your mind, you won't.

[izakthegoomba]

We are now talking in circles. I am pretty sure none of us active posters have anything more to do than reiterate our points. glowball won't budge, and neither will we. I guess we wait for the others to check in, then go ahead with the lynch.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't think Piggy's turnaround means much. When the question was first posed, there was little implication of where it was going, and how useful it could be.

Obviously, I will keep an eye on Piggy, but it does nothing to take my attention off of glow.

[izakthegoomba]

GreyICE? Alt of Castle Bravo? Whom I just blacklisted and swore to never play with again?

Oh god.

[izakthegoomba]

I cannot say anything more about my dislike of HreyICE because it involves an ongoing game.

[izakthegoomba]

Why does neil have to go next? I thought he was against a massclaim.

[izakthegoomba]

Who after you?

[izakthegoomba]

I'm a doc

I want glow to go next. Whether she actually will or not is another story.

[izakthegoomba]

It being how she always acts isn't an excuse for going against the best strategy available to us.

[izakthegoomba]

@Maru yeah, I know. It's just... frustrating.

[izakthegoomba]

Nah, she won't do that either.

I see no way that such stubbornness could possibly have pro-town motives. So let's lynch glowball today.

[izakthegoomba]

And for convienience, could people just add their name to the relevant list from the quote box?

Vigs

BBmolla

Doctors

GreyICE
Maruchan
izakthegoomba

Not claiming

glowball
neil1113

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, hilarious. Really witty.

[izakthegoomba]

By neil's own admission, he is endangering our plan.

We lynch glowball. Neil is vig meat.

Problem solved.

[izakthegoomba]

Fine, I'll go look.

I don't expect to be giving out townie points any time soon, though.

[izakthegoomba]

What, you mean the sudden turnabout after being against a massclaim?

[izakthegoomba]

An attempt to stop this plan halfway through is ten times scummier than trying to stop it happening in the first place.

Also, can somebody tell me what Thomith did?

[izakthegoomba]

Quaroath has barely shown up, right?

[izakthegoomba]

So get on with it, Thomith.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: glowball
VOTE: neil1113

[izakthegoomba]

@neil1113 on the grounds that I was voting for glowball because she was against the plan, which was and is anti-town, but she requested replacement. Even if she stays, I agree that your opposition to us is more likely to be scum-motivated.

I still want to see glow vigged tonight.

[izakthegoomba]

When you say "WIFOM it up", what exactly do you mean? Just checking we all mean the same.

[izakthegoomba]

Original Roll String: 2d9

2 9-Sided Dice: (1, 9) = 10

All will become clear in my next post.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, so how about this:

We lynch neil1113.

BBmolla shoots glowball
Quaroath shoots glowball
(in case of Mafia Doc)

As decided by the dice in the above post, docs number one and nine, in the order they appear on the playerlist, each protect a vig.

glowball protects BBmolla
whispersilk protects Quaroath

Mega (just happened to be next on the list) protects BBmolla OR Quaroath (for WIFOM, doesn't tell us until tomorrow)

GreyICE protects PiggyGal15
PiggyGal15 protects izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba protects VitaminR
VitaminR protects Thomith
Thomith protects Maruchan
Maruchan protects GreyICE

[izakthegoomba]

glowball protects BBmolla

I foresee a problem.

Yes, I know. It was random. I spotted that just after I posted. So how about we shuffle glow and Mega's spots one place along the plan, and do this instead:

the plan v1.1

We lynch neil1113.

BBmolla shoots glowball
Quaroath shoots glowball

Mega protects BBmolla
whispersilk protects Quaroath
GreyICE protects BBmolla OR Quaroath (doesn't tell us until tomorrow)
glowball protects PiggyGal15
PiggyGal15 protects izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba protects VitaminR
VitaminR protects Thomith
Thomith protects Maruchan
Maruchan protects glowball

[izakthegoomba]

Ok neil, now you've claimed I'm a lot less inclined to lynch you.

So if you don't like my plan (and I admit it has faults), can you give us an alternative?

[izakthegoomba]

...lynch me and get it over...

Oh, this is CLASSIC.

[izakthegoomba]

Lynch me, and see for yourself

Why thank you, I think we will.

[izakthegoomba]

No doc train then?

[izakthegoomba]

...why would we leave you alive as SK? If you are the SK (I'm not sure if I believe you), doing what we tell you would only hinder you, and would ultimately stop you winning. So no, my vote stays on you.

[izakthegoomba]

I still have a bad feeling about this. What if this is some complex scum ploy?

Neil, if you really are the SK, tell us this: why the fuck would you claim?

[izakthegoomba]

VOTE: ToastyToast

[izakthegoomba]

I STILL want to know why neil would just give up like that. Especially on Day 1.

[izakthegoomba]

UNVOTE: neil1113

I don't want to be part of this wagon. Under other circumstances I might have supported it, but GreyICE's extreme scumminess overrides it. Nothing he's said works how he wants us to think it does, his logic is flawed, his questions are leading, and his random outbursts are causing us massive problems.

VOTE: GreyICE

[izakthegoomba]

If you are to lynch neil, I at least want GreyICE to be the vig target. Two docs protect the vig. Another doc protects EITHER a vig of his/her choice, or a doc of his/her choice, by flipping a coin. The remaining group of docs all protect another member of their group.

Alternaively, the remaining docs could form a doc train.

[izakthegoomba]

GreyICE, the deal is on, so long as the vigs agree.

Just one thing, though. I know it's unlikely, but what if neil is town? We need to account for all possibilities.

[izakthegoomba]

No thoughts on the deal, whisper?

[izakthegoomba]

Ok, I'm formulating plans for the various outcomes.

[izakthegoomba]

Sorry for treading on your toes, whisper, but I had this worked out already.

The protections on vigs are randomly selected, but ensure that the target of the vigging is not protecting a vig. The doc trains are in random order. In the doc train, everyone protects the player below them.

If neil flips SK

BBmolla shoots GreyICE
Quaroath shoots GreyICE

Quilford protects BBmolla
Maruchan protects Quaroath
VitaminR chooses to protect BBmolla OR Quaroath

In the doc train, everyone protects the player below them:

PiggyGal15
GreyICE
glowball
whispersilk
izakthegoomba
Thomith
PiggyGal15

If neil flips Mafia Goon

BBmolla shoots izakthegoomba
Quaroath shoots izakthegoomba

GreyICE protects BBmolla
whispersilk protects Quaroath
Glowball chooses to protect BBmolla OR Quaroath

Doc train:

PiggyGal15
VitaminR
Maruchan
Thomith
Quilford
izakthegoomba
PiggyGal15

If neil flips Mafia Doctor (option 1)

BBmolla shoots izakthegoomba
Quaroath shoots Thomith

PiggyGal15 protects BBmolla
Quilford protects Quaroath
VitaminR chooses to protect BBmolla OR Quaroath

Doc train:


Glowball
Thomith
whispersilk
GreyICE
izakthegoomba
Maruchan
Glowball

If neil flips Mafia Doctor (option 2)

BBmolla shoots izakthegoomba
Quaroath shoots izakthegoomba

PiggyGal15 protects BBmolla
Quilford protects Quaroath
VitaminR chooses to protect BBmolla OR Quaroath

Doc train:


Glowball
Thomith
whispersilk
GreyICE
izakthegoomba
Maruchan
Glowball

Thomith is lynched Day 2

If neil flips town

I piss myself laughing

We need to decide whether we would go with Option 1 or 2 beforehand.

[izakthegoomba]

@whisper fine, the extra vig protectors can be tacked onto the end of the doc trains.

@glow why not write up a plan yourself then?

[izakthegoomba]

@whisper the thing is, GreyICE and I have a deal, which I believe will help the town. A plan needs to be formed aroun that.

[izakthegoomba]

No, whisper. Unless the majority is against it, we should play this night based around the deal. To recap, that is:

neil1113 flips SK --> vig GreyICE

neil1113 flips MG --> vig izakthegoomba

neil1113 flips MD --> vig izakthegoomba, lynch Thomith

neil1113 flips town --> ???

[izakthegoomba]

Too... many... posts...

So anyway, are we not going with GreyICE's 1v1-esqe deal at all?

[izakthegoomba]

That... seems to work perfectly. It's verging onto breaking, actually, if everyone does what they're told.

[izakthegoomba]

@Thomith because if the vig dies when they are vigged, the person assigned to protect them is ConfScum. Of it's N2 or later, they are ConfMafDoc.

PEdit: yeah, whisper ninja'd me.

[izakthegoomba]

The vigs RANDOMLY choose their target.

[izakthegoomba]

Note to self: play simpler setup next time.

I'm still backing whisper's plan. I don't think any of the supposed flaws are really valid, as no other plan offers us a better town-death-to-outed-scum rate.

If there is a better idea, I am more than happy to listen.

PEdit: @whisper, lrn2read

[izakthegoomba]

@whisper yeah, Grey needs to die and I would totally sympathise with any vig shooting him, but does that not stop it being random?

[izakthegoomba]

So, just to clarify, the vigs don't have to use an RNG or anything, they just pick a target from their pool and let the WIFOM do it's work.

I can go for that.

[izakthegoomba]

I don't mean to be a pain in the arse, I really don't, but IS IT TRULY RANDOM, OR ISN'T IT?

[izakthegoomba]

It's just that you keep calling it random. If the vigs are choosing their targets from their pools, it IS NOT random.

I have no problem with that, but the use of the term just confuses things.

[izakthegoomba]

Well duh.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah. Same with Quack Mafia. I was scum there. If the game hadn't been abandoned due to mod error, we would have lost soooooo badly.

A scum RB would make it kinda even in both setups.

[izakthegoomba]

TOASTY, GET OVER HERE

[izakthegoomba]

ToastyToast has been prodded.

[izakthegoomba]

Just kidding around. Stop spoiling my fun.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah, I dislike breaking strategies, whatever side I'm on.

[izakthegoomba]

Uh, Piggy... VitaminR getting vigged twice means you weren't ConfScum...

That has to be the worst scumslip ever.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

And yeah, it's either trolling or prod-dodges for you now.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh, I must have misread...

Yeah, it was Quilford. Sorry.

[izakthegoomba]

Seems fine to me.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh an just to be careful,

UNVOTE: PiggyGal15

[izakthegoomba]

May as well end the day, and see what the night brings, I guess. We could easily have another ConfScum to lynch tomorrow.

[izakthegoomba]

Ok then, let's go to the night.

VOTE: PiggyGal15

[izakthegoomba]

You're not alone.

[izakthegoomba]

That's L-2 if I'm right.

[izakthegoomba]

Why would you lynch me over ConfScum?

[izakthegoomba]

Ah well, we did what we could.

VOTE: izakthegoomba

[izakthegoomba]

I think this is a bit unfair, though. Kinda like Quack Mafia. And I was scum in BOTH OF THEM!

RAGE RAGE RAGE

The scum could do with an RB to even both games out. They work wonders for un-breaking broken games.

[izakthegoomba]

I have been designing an alternative, unbroken setup ever since you guys started to break this one, which I've now posted in the Open Game Discussion thread. Go have a look.

[izakthegoomba]

Yeah I know, but I've admitted that I'm scum and hammered myself, and even if I hadn't, I could still post an improved version of this setup...

[izakthegoomba]

Hey guys, take a look at my suggested solution. It aims to give both scum and SK an better chance at winning.

[izakthegoomba]

@BBmolla I'm prett sure my setup fixes both of those...

[izakthegoomba]

I agree that the breaking strategy isn't perfect, and it could blow up in the town's face, but it can still allows the town to very easily find 2-3 of the scum - especially if the town were to play it better than they did here.

[izakthegoomba]

How about if there was no mafia doc, just two goons and an RB?

[izakthegoomba]

But doesn't hat undermine the vigs just as much as 1 doc, 1 RB, 1 goon, and 1 NK-I SK?

[izakthegoomba]

Docblocker... That could work.

[izakthegoomba]

A broken game is one which can be broken with a certain strategy ("breaking strategy").

A breaking strategy is one which makes one faction considerably more likely to win than the other.

[izakthegoomba]

Oh, and I think Quilfords idea would work too.

But if two regular docs protect someone, one mafia doc protects them, and hey are NK'd, do they survive? Does the mafia doc protection only cancel one town protection?