NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[kunkstar7]

/confirmado.

[kunkstar7]

kanyeknowsbest is town.

Vote: Swag.

Scum is there.

[kunkstar7]

Likes Spyrex's townblock list. Good stuff. Guessing most of the scum is in the not posting much section this game.

Also Hiraki and The Mask make good scum. Post 395 by Hiraki is such a weak jab at Ethos and TheMask's "lol spyrex is chainsawing" implying that spyrex is scum just for questioning his vote and no other reasoning whatsoever is sad.

Vote: The Mask.

[kunkstar7]

@ Idher, whats wrong with a KoC townread?

@Chair: On reread it felt like I was hitting a lot of townreads from 3/4 of the main posters. Never said I was prolific myself.
Also, Spyrex answered why he made the comment, and from what was going on I could see it too, I was waiting to see if we were going to get a flip from para because I didn't count the wagon right either. Did you miss his answer or was it not sufficient for you?
You seem pretty determined to break down that voting block of townreads when you appear to agree with most of them. They don't all have to be "OBVTOWN TO THE END OF THE EARTH" reads to make it there ya' know.
Also would like an explanation of why you view Ethos town.

[kunkstar7]

I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?

So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".

Ignores the fact that he earlier stated he had a town-read on Oversoul, doesn't state any reasoning behind it but states disagreement with the reasoning behind our town-read.

spyrex already touched on it but because he disagrees with your reasoning for a town read does not mean he can't think the dude is town.

True but there doesn't seem to be any town motive to try and dissuade someone from a shared town read.

[kunkstar7]

Did you not read further than that?

Is there a reason you're making me play guessing games, and are so reluctant to actually explain the reason for your vote?

If you have an actual case on me, make it. If you don't, go find scum.

I have been poking holes in his play. This is clear. You replaced into a horrible slot and are doing the best you can with a bad situation.

Getting tired of this "obviously my play is perfect why cant you see it my way without me having to explain it at all". If you legitimately have been poking holes in his play it shouldn't be too hard to quote a few places to answer the question.

As for the voting block, me only being averse to the town reads that I disagree with is to an extent a fair point. I dislike your calling my reaction to the voting block "itchy feet," and even more than that "tentative prodding." I'm not being tentative at all; I explained in detail what's wrong with the block.

The thing is you weren't averse to only town reads you disagreed with. See your ISO #6 compared to where you called out the voting block in your subsequent ISO #7. Clearly states town read on KoC. Yet you mention having an issue with KoC in the voting block. Also your wording seems more out to kill the whole block on the basis of a few, rather than suggesting to limit it to lesser players.

[kunkstar7]

Not enthralled with the mason claim, but ultimately read it coming from Ethos as town. This also implies a town connection on Para, not because of masonage, but because Ethos reasoning on Para's frustration making him look town is a bit more valid in this sense. Also Yos makes the slot look better. This does nothing for Spyrex and Ythan town reads though, more or less making my gut of town on town tearing itself apart look better in my eyes.

Vote: Empking.

[kunkstar7]

KoC and UT why are you voting Yos? I'm saying you are wasting your votes on that wagon.

[kunkstar7]

Unvote;Vote:Untrod Tripod.

[kunkstar7]

Oh crap. Reading up. Need to take a look at what all went down with Empking on Day 1.

[kunkstar7]

Wait, sapo pushing Empking's lynch after he claimed vig Day 1? Obvious bus there, there was no way that lynch was going to go through after that confirmable claim.

Vote: saporovirus

.

[kunkstar7]

I could swing for a Chair lynch mainly for the whole "shutdown the townbloc" deal way back when, but sapo is obvious at this point with empking flipped.

Sapo's ISO Post #6 is so passive, "I don't agree with their logic, and they make a lot of plain wrong statements but that's not scummy." Notches Ythan as town and leads into a Yostownread too.
And oh damn this is good:

I don't agree with UT being the #1 lynch. EMPKING GO GO GO.

UT is flipped town. Sapo is asking for an alternative lynch on Empking know that a)it wasn't going to happen, which leads to b)free "towncred" for arguing against a townflip when UT flips without necessarily needing to push an alternative wagon, which is win all around for scum considering UT still got lynched.

Oh cool, found Empkings List-O'-Reads, lets take a look:

Really, really town:
04. Ythan
09. SpyreX

Bet you both here are actually town.

Town:

12. Untrod Tripod

07. Îdher (Amrun + Ether hydra) x
05. Knight of Cydonia


Null:
01. saporovirus
02. Swag136 x|x

03. dramonic

06. kanyeknowsbest
13. Chair (implosion + Misder)

14. T-Bone x

15. Oversoul

Scum:
16. kunkstar7
17. Yosarian2

08. Hiraki

Really, really scum:

10. Ethos (Slaxx + Regfan hydra)

Looking at the way Empking did this makes me lean to him placing all scum in the null category, and possibly one in the regular town category. Sapo and Chair both fit here. Yos is likely town too from this.

[kunkstar7]

@Mastin: while that is a general theory, I'm disregarding that and doing the analysis based on my reads and the flips in the game specifically. I'm sure Empking was aware that his reads would be analyzed on his flip as well and of the general theory. Empking's really town category is all townreads, and all his scum have either flipped or is myself. (yos is an exception, but once again another townread). So final verdict is what I stated earlier.

[kunkstar7]

UT is flipped town. Sapo is asking for an alternative lynch on Empking know that a)it wasn't going to happen, which leads to b)free "towncred" for arguing against a townflip when UT flips without necessarily needing to push an alternative wagon, which is win all around for scum considering UT still got lynched.

You do remember that SpyreX and I were also trying to deflect that wagon off of UT, right?

The key here is that Sapo was deflecting back to Empking, a claimed vig, rather than away to some other wagon. Since we know Empking is scum, and UT was town, the scum motivation for what Sapo did is pretty clear.

[kunkstar7]

(Lynching your third scumread, your tertiary suspect, is far inferior to lynching your primary or secondary suspect. I think Sapo's scum, sure--but I'm less sure of it than my other two scumreads, especially with one of them supporting the lynch. If any of my reads are to be wrong, Sapo's the one most likely to be it.

That's not a good lynch to me. Not yet, anyway.)

While it is inferior for yourself, it doesn't help if there isn't a wagon on the alternatives (mostly directed at the Ludi suspicion from you, Chair could happen). With Chair V/LA, I see that wagon stalling due to responses, so hammering sapo is optimal in this case. Plus if you agree sapo is scum why stall on the lynch just because you have other scum suspects?

[kunkstar7]

Somebody hammer.

There is no way anyone besides Sapo or Chair is going to get lynched. So Yos and Ludi, pick one of the two that you think is more scummier and move there. Hopefully its to hammer Sapo, but I won't begrudge you a Chair hammer if you can put him there. At least one here is scum, with the other being a real strong contender, if both are not. So I'm willing to lynch either.

[kunkstar7]

Because they are the two best candidates for scum right now, with any third option being so far behind that its wasting your time to try pushing it, so stop stalling. Sapo is obvious from Empking interactions and Chair, well Spy can elaborate on that. I think Spy's point about Chair jumping on Sapo's wagon could be a lot better when we have sapo's flip, so another reason to hammer sapo.

[kunkstar7]

Come on guys what happened...this game makes me sad (Although LLD not voting Chair is really offsetting, not in a scummy way but confusing). But since I already said I'd swing Chair if needed,

Unvote;Vote:Chair.

[kunkstar7]

Its weird because the easiest move if you were scum would be simply to jump onto the Chair wagon when you replaced in, especially with someone announcing intent to hammer. So its confusing from the standpoint of you being scum.

[kunkstar7]

No, you are still scum, sorry but sapo sunk you. Today isn't your day it seems though.

[kunkstar7]

One thing that doesn't make sense doesn't automatically overrule everything else. Since it would be easy for scum to do either action, that point is a nulltell.

[kunkstar7]

Do tell.

[kunkstar7]

I said it would be the easy thing for scum to do, that doesn't mean scum can't do it, hence the nulltell.

[kunkstar7]

I think you're a scumbag who was hoping to gain some town cred from showing a small amount of doubt about my wagon, but doesn't want to lose his potential mislynch.

Why wouldn't I just have sat on your wagon then? I'm sure that there are enough people to swing the Chair lynch without my vote.

[kunkstar7]

Seriously.
No.
Bookie.
Talk.

It dies. NOW.

QFT.

In any case, Mastin's move on Ludi is blown wayyy out of proportion. Why the hell would you just claim straight away without getting any input on the MC from the town? Ludi's comments there seem in line. LLD needs to go now.

Vote: LLD.

The fact that she got to L-1 yesterday and the wagon died in favor of the Chair wagon only fits further with the previous Empking interactions which made her slot obvscum to begin with.

[kunkstar7]

Claim treestump.
Popcorn to spyrex, idher if spy already claimed.

[kunkstar7]

@Mastin: If only one of myself and LLD can be scum, and you seem to believe my treestump claim, are you finally willing to act on your suspicion of LLD and get on her wagon?

@Oversoul and Idher, both of you have LLD down as scum. What makes Ludi a better alternative than LLD? If you can't answer that sufficiently, you should be voting LLD.

[kunkstar7]

Zepher's post with reads was way too passive, putting both Mastin and Ludi in scum, not taking a hard stance on my claim, and slotting two more people under "maybe scum?", it reads like someone testing waters, which right now is scummy.

KKB needs to start putting some conclusions together as well because you are asking a lot of "questions", but not really going anywhere with them. Decide Ludi or Mastin, then decide former or LLD.

To be honest, I don't see the Mastin or Ludi ONLY deal. Explain Mastin(succinctly, one or two sentences preferably), why you two apparently have to be of opposing alignments. I can read the rest of your arguments with this summary in mind.

[kunkstar7]

18 players, mafia of 4? Sounds reasonable. Don't think I need to stump, but I can if requested. I think Spyrex flip makes Mastin even more town if that's possible due to Empking reads..
We are safe still even if we mislynch today, so no qualms about the Ludi wagon right now.

5:1 today, 3:1 tomorrow, My stump would obviously make it 4:1 and 2:1 respectively.

[kunkstar7]

Willing to hammer now. Noticed the call for stump, hammer or stump?

[kunkstar7]

Alright.

STUMP ME.

Also pm'ing mod the request because the Role PM is kind of vague about this.

(Haha it'll be cool if that causes the lynch as well.)

[kunkstar7]

More comments later but no one vote just yet. Maatin's posts are giving me fake vibes, but before today i was sure mastinvludi was townvtown. I also dont think empking would fill the towntown cat. With only scum, but thats questionable as well.

[kunkstar7]

The confirmed town player is showing suspicions of me.

Only fair considering you are the one who pinned yourself as townvscum against ludi.
But Zepher does mark the crucial distinction, and I agree with that.


Critical LLD interactions:
ISO #4: Mentions slight possible suspicion of Spyrex but overrides it with another reason. This to me shows that she is avoiding bring full out suspicion to her teammates.
ISO #40: Mentions that Spyrex (Mafia Goon) is missing from Oversoul's list.
ISO #50: Once again reiterates OVersoul forgetting Spyrex.
ISO #19: Noncomittal scumpings on both Mastin and Ludi. Increases the chance that Mastin is town.
ISO #23: Prefers a Kanye lynch to Zepher lynch. This is a scumpoint against Zepher in association with her soft suspicion yet avoidance of Spyrex.
ISO #58: Once again prefers a different lynch over a Zepher lynch. Ludi in this case.
ISO #56: Claims that the scumteam consists of everyone currently alive with votes. Not helpful.
Quick to attack myself when I continue suspicion of her. This ties in with the Spyrex deal from above, showing how she reacts to town players attacking her.

Her votes are:
T-bone (claimed, but T-Bone was already dead.)
Kanyeknowsbest
Oversoul
Magister Ludi

My conclusion:
MrZepher is the last scum. We're going to have to make a decision at some point, so I'm going to stop dragging it out and choose. I would like Mastin to vote MrZepher. IF Oversoul is truly town, he

WILL NOT HAMMER

. If he is scum, well good play. If OVersoul is town, then Mastin will unvote, and Oversoul will then proceed to vote MrZepher. IF Mastin is town at this point, he

WILL NOT HAMMER

. If we make it this far without a hammer, good game town wins, Zepher is the last scum.

tl;dr:

Mastin votes MrZepher. Town oversoul posts

BUT DOES NOT VOTE

.
Mastin unvotes.
Oversoul votes MrZepher. Town Mastin posts

BUT DOES NOT VOTE

( or hammers for the win I guess).

[kunkstar7]

@Oversoul: Obviously you aren't understanding. Mastin votes Zepher. If you are scum, you hammer for a scumwin. If you aren't you post to confirm yourself at town. Mastin unvotes, then the deal gets repeated for Mastin.

The plan pretty much hinges on MrZepher being scum. If you really think Zepher is scum then you woud agree to do the plan.

[kunkstar7]

However, Mastin's play toDay had been... Weird as fuck. His posts so far feel totally insincere.

This is what I was getting from his posts too, but Zepher pointed out the distinction that he isn't trying to push an alternative lynch, which doesn't fit with a scum survival mode. So I'm willing to take the risk on Mastin. Can we at least get the Mastin votes MrZepher part so we can nail down the scum to one of those two? By Mastin being the one to vote he can't turn on us if we are wrong on him just yet.

[kunkstar7]

Um, wrong. My stumping reset the votes, so it required everyone to revote, which nullifies that point. Also, you can't reasonably call out both Zepher AND Mastin (unless I'm misunderstanding your Zepher comments).

What do you think about Empking's, Spyrex's, and reads on Mastin? Recap: Empking and Spyrex had Mastin pegged as obvtown, while LLD did not.

[kunkstar7]

Mastin's slot has been the most antitown by far... It doesn't make sense for Mastin to not be scum.

I am inclined to believe Spyrex/Empking that Mastin is town especially that it was Ythan they were pegging as town.

<snip>

Personally, LLD was probably pushing a mislynch on both Ludi as Mastin with having that slot as her number 1 scum pick.

So now we have a contradiction in your Mastin read. Way to ruin my confidence in you. >_>
First quote calls Mastin certain scum, and the following quoted post points out how Mastin should be town.

[kunkstar7]

Mastin, stop with the self analyzing. Its pointless in game terms and does nothing to advance the situation. Finish your game review then post the finding of that.

@Oversoul: why do you ask about the townvtown thing? I can't recall if they did, but believe Spyrex and Empking didn't.

[kunkstar7]

V/la till Sunday.

[kunkstar7]

Zepher, vote Oversoul.

[kunkstar7]

I have a reason for asking that of Zepher. It would be appreciated if he complied asap.

[kunkstar7]

Good, glad to be right about Mastin. Wish you guys had gotten that out of the way sooner.

Now, to finish this out, seeing as we have a crossvote. (Mastin, you are overthinking this.)

Then it is Zepher. Good game scum.

Not understanding this from Oversoul. Why congratulate scum if you aren't getting hammered?

Honestly, my conclusions of this game go against what you are getting Mastin. LLD didn't seem like a busser and actively voted town people, so not distancing or bussing. This would put Oversoul as town and Zepher as scum, but you seem to have it backwards (hence why I don't seem as helpful, besides inactivity). That said, Oversoul's post about Mastin winning either way doesn't read right, reading as an underhand way of getting Mastin's approval for a Zephervote. I don't have the vote so its up to you Mastin, but I still say you are overthinking this and if your read is even as slight 51/49, hammer the 51.

Review of Empking and Quilford make Oversoul the better option here. Reviewed them in light of your quoting of the swagVoversould comment from Quilford.

[kunkstar7]

Great job. Sorry for doubting you there at the end Oversoul, should have stuck with my original read. Glad you made the right choice Mastin!