NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1750 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:41 am

Mastin wrote:The confirmed town player is showing suspicions of me.

Only fair considering you are the one who pinned yourself as townvscum against ludi.
But Zepher does mark the crucial distinction, and I agree with that.

Critical LLD interactions:
ISO #4: Mentions slight possible suspicion of Spyrex but overrides it with another reason. This to me shows that she is avoiding bring full out suspicion to her teammates.
ISO #40: Mentions that Spyrex (Mafia Goon) is missing from Oversoul's list.
ISO #50: Once again reiterates OVersoul forgetting Spyrex.
ISO #19: Noncomittal scumpings on both Mastin and Ludi. Increases the chance that Mastin is town.
ISO #23: Prefers a Kanye lynch to Zepher lynch. This is a scumpoint against Zepher in association with her soft suspicion yet avoidance of Spyrex.
ISO #58: Once again prefers a different lynch over a Zepher lynch. Ludi in this case.
ISO #56: Claims that the scumteam consists of everyone currently alive with votes. Not helpful.
Quick to attack myself when I continue suspicion of her. This ties in with the Spyrex deal from above, showing how she reacts to town players attacking her.

Her votes are:
T-bone (claimed, but T-Bone was already dead.)
Kanyeknowsbest
Oversoul
Magister Ludi

My conclusion:
MrZepher is the last scum. We're going to have to make a decision at some point, so I'm going to stop dragging it out and choose. I would like Mastin to vote MrZepher. IF Oversoul is truly town, he

WILL NOT HAMMER

. If he is scum, well good play. If OVersoul is town, then Mastin will unvote, and Oversoul will then proceed to vote MrZepher. IF Mastin is town at this point, he

WILL NOT HAMMER

. If we make it this far without a hammer, good game town wins, Zepher is the last scum.

tl;dr:

Mastin votes MrZepher. Town oversoul posts

BUT DOES NOT VOTE

.
Mastin unvotes.
Oversoul votes MrZepher. Town Mastin posts

BUT DOES NOT VOTE

( or hammers for the win I guess).

Oversoul · Post Post #1751 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:37 am

Kunk, the scum at that point would just follow your plan and there wouldn't be any suspicion on them.

I think that Zepher is scum. One little tidbit that I think supports ZePher scum is Spyrex's "I would he surprise if scum" list. Combine that with his stupid reasoning for suspicion on me and LLD's nonexistent comments on him.

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1752 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:46 am

@Oversoul: Obviously you aren't understanding. Mastin votes Zepher. If you are scum, you hammer for a scumwin. If you aren't you post to confirm yourself at town. Mastin unvotes, then the deal gets repeated for Mastin.

The plan pretty much hinges on MrZepher being scum. If you really think Zepher is scum then you woud agree to do the plan.

Oversoul · Post Post #1753 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:39 pm

I do agree with it. However, Mastin's play toDay had been... Weird as fuck. His posts so far feel totally insincere.

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1754 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:13 pm

Oversoul wrote:However, Mastin's play toDay had been... Weird as fuck. His posts so far feel totally insincere.

This is what I was getting from his posts too, but Zepher pointed out the distinction that he isn't trying to push an alternative lynch, which doesn't fit with a scum survival mode. So I'm willing to take the risk on Mastin. Can we at least get the Mastin votes MrZepher part so we can nail down the scum to one of those two? By Mastin being the one to vote he can't turn on us if we are wrong on him just yet.

Oversoul · Post Post #1755 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:38 pm

Mastin's slot has been the most antitown by far... It doesn't make sense for Mastin to not be scum. He outted the masons and got you to stump early, which due to my stupidity for not checking, prematurely lynched Ludi. He has an air of defeatist around him and his play is noticeably different from the previous days. The only good thing about today is that Zepher already set foot down the path of trying to convince everyone that I am scum and it would look plenty scummy if he were to retract his opinion on me and my slot.

Also, let it be known that this is my first LyLo scenario so....

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1756 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:49 pm

Um, wrong. My stumping reset the votes, so it required everyone to revote, which nullifies that point. Also, you can't reasonably call out both Zepher AND Mastin (unless I'm misunderstanding your Zepher comments).

What do you think about Empking's, Spyrex's, and reads on Mastin? Recap: Empking and Spyrex had Mastin pegged as obvtown, while LLD did not.

Oversoul · Post Post #1757 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:31 pm

kunkstar7 wrote:Um, wrong. My stumping reset the votes, so it required everyone to revote, which nullifies that point. Also, you can't reasonably call out both Zepher AND Mastin (unless I'm misunderstanding your Zepher comments).

What do you think about Empking's, Spyrex's, and reads on Mastin? Recap: Empking and Spyrex had Mastin pegged as obvtown, while LLD did not.

Ya. That part doesn't sit well with me either. I am inclined to believe Spyrex/Empking that Mastin is town especially that it was Ythan they were pegging as town. Ythan doesn't seem like a player you want suspicious of you. Then again, the same goes for Mastin. :/ this game had a couple of heavy hitters in my opinion. Anyway, Spyrex had literally all town on his "surprised if scum" list. The list included himself and Ythan. I can see adding himself, who wouldn't, and it be weird to have a random scum player (Ythan) on that list. Personally, LLD was probably pushing a mislynch on both Ludi as Mastin with having that slot as her number 1 scum pick. Remember, she made it before you stumped, and before both she and Spyrex were owned. It would be weird if she had both scum (Spyrex was not on her list, and Zepher) at such low levels, but that would probably be so that the scum don't accidentally hit her during the night. I am curious to see how Mastin's VCA goes, And I don't think they would be much help given the traitor role. But I am interested nonetheless.

Oversoul · Post Post #1758 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:32 pm

kunkstar7 wrote:Um, wrong. My stumping reset the votes, so it required everyone to revote, which nullifies that point. Also, you can't reasonably call out both Zepher AND Mastin (unless I'm misunderstanding your Zepher comments).

What do you think about Empking's, Spyrex's, and reads on Mastin? Recap: Empking and Spyrex had Mastin pegged as obvtown, while LLD did not.

Ya. That part doesn't sit well with me either. I am inclined to believe Spyrex/Empking that Mastin is town especially that it was Ythan they were pegging as town. Ythan doesn't seem like a player you want suspicious of you. Then again, the same goes for Mastin. :/ this game had a couple of heavy hitters in my opinion. Anyway, Spyrex had literally all town on his "surprised if scum" list. The list included himself and Ythan. I can see adding himself, who wouldn't, and it be weird to have a random scum player (Ythan) on that list. Personally, LLD was probably pushing a mislynch on both Ludi as Mastin with having that slot as her number 1 scum pick. Remember, she made it before you stumped, and before both she and Spyrex were owned. It would be weird if she had both scum (Spyrex was not on her list, and Zepher) at such low levels, but that would probably be so that the scum don't accidentally hit her during the night. I am curious to see how Mastin's VCA goes, And I don't think they would be much help given the traitor role. But I am interested nonetheless.

Oversoul · Post Post #1759 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:33 pm

Ugh. Can you delete the second Post, Reckoner?

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1760 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Oversoul [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3333852#p3333852]in Post #1755[/url] wrote:Mastin's slot has been the most antitown by far... It doesn't make sense for Mastin to not be scum.

Oversoul [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3334052#p3334052]in Post #1758[/url] wrote:I am inclined to believe Spyrex/Empking that Mastin is town especially that it was Ythan they were pegging as town.

<snip>

Personally, LLD was probably pushing a mislynch on both Ludi as Mastin with having that slot as her number 1 scum pick.

So now we have a contradiction in your Mastin read. Way to ruin my confidence in you. >_>
First quote calls Mastin certain scum, and the following quoted post points out how Mastin should be town.

Oversoul · Post Post #1761 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:55 pm

Those were general musings/stream of consciousness. My gut says that Mastin is scum and certain actions the (masonry outage and such), but the way the other scum have treated him makes me doubt that.

Did any of the conf scum say Mastin vs Ethos/Para was town v town?

mastin2 · Post Post #1762 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:26 pm

Make up your dang minds, already. Am I scum or aren't I? >_<

Oh, and for the record, I will not be voting Zepher. Not until I've finished my work at a minimum. (And maybe not even then. The 51 is Oversoul, not Zepher. And even with that, 51 is far too low. Hence, my need to finish.) I've gotten to Day Two.

I've read (well, skimmed--was so tired I had to take a nap after it) one of my inspirations and have some ideas to take from there in scumhunting. (Some of my ideas then are the polar opposite of what they are now, so obviously won't be using those.

But there are some gems* which I have lost to my old age, so to speak.

)

Spoiler: *rambling

mastin2 · Post Post #1763 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:50 pm

Oh, and I'm sure

someone

will ask, be it dead QT, alive currently, or post-game, about what I see my play in this game as, overall. It really depends on the outcome.

Spoiler: this is another long ramble

-If I nail the last scum through my hard work, but am lynched, I'd call it a Bittersweet Defeat. On the one hand, I managed to nail three of the scum and was exactly where I needed to be on the fourth (AKA, not on the wagon). I did what needed to be done, overall, and in the end I got my reads correct. That still isn't quite enough to counter-balance the failures, though. I only got so many successes after the chain of failures I had. Yosarian2, UT, Empking-as-town, Chair, and--of course--Magister Ludi. With lingering suspicions of Kayne as well. There's no way I could call my successes equal to the failures, especially since my greatest one in this scenario costs the town their win.

-If I got the scum correct, and somehow managed to lynch them, then I'd call it even. Yes, I realize after all the above is said and done, you'd think I'd still call this game an overall failure. But the logic behind here is, that when all is said and done, I got the job accomplished and won the game for the town, in the end.

This is, of course, a rather poor justification. But, come on, let me have *some* dignity left!

(I thought it through when I reviewed my previous 3p lylo game as my alt. At the time, I was honored--I had managed to survive to my first-ever endgame instead of being killed before then! I was humble after the game, and pointed out how--while I did inevitably win the game--it was more through the effort of all the dead players than through me. But thinking it through, it should've been the greatest disgrace ever. Living to 3P lylo isn't the honor I thought it was. Yes, it gives you the chance to hammer the scum. Yes, it leaves the game in the palms of your hand. Yes, it means that ultimately, you could theoretically claim responsibility for the town's victory.

But, come on. To get to 3P lylo means you need to have dodged the NKs. As a Power Role, sure, that's gamebreaking. As a VT, it means you've essentially earned a seal of approval from the scum labelling you "one of the two scummiest townies in the whole game". [You know the saying. "Scum bring who they want to lylo"...] Who would want to take honor in that?)

...Of course, there is a third option. I tend not to think of that one, since it's...well...quite unpleasant. I get my scum guess wrong. Regardless of whether my guess or me is lynched, it means that when it came down to the correct time, I missed. Any, ANY way of saying, "Mastin didn't cost the town the game" instantly vanishes. Theoretically (see the massive ramble above on the subject), you can say my play wasn't that bad up to this point. (I say it is, pretty much the whole dead QT probably agrees, and I'm sure the scum were thinking it.

But still, THEORETICALLY...) Yet if I guess incorrectly? Yeah, there's no theory left. The loss is purely on me. No doubt, no ways out. No excuse for hammering wrong.

If it happened, then I WOULD have completely and utterly, totally failed. All the good is washed out the window in the end if you inevitably have a bad ending.

That's why I really want to find the last scum. My pride doesn't want to be further injured. If I guess wrong, I have to accept that this is my first ever complete failure as town. (Pride damaged. Not beyond repair, but certainly will haunt me for a very long time.) If I guess right but am still lynched, I'm personally content, but obviously still bitter at the same time and not to amused at how much people will rant at me for not fighting harder, or for making a gambit in the first place (I have a one-gambit-per-game limit in place. No more [ends badly, ends very, VERY badly!], but also no less.

) , or some other miscellaneous complaint. (If this happens, I'd say it's...well, pride has been slightly wounded, but will heal. Very close to neutral, but still negative.) The only way I can keep my pride unscathed (or if I were in an arrogant mood [oh, HECK no!

], actually increase it

) is to get it right and somehow lynch them.

I am not optimistic, but I have to try. Personal victory, and all that. I. just. can't. fail. that. badly.

Oversoul · Post Post #1764 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:36 pm

What. The. Fuck. Mastin.

Not helping my damn read on you. >_>

mastin2 · Post Post #1765 (ISO) » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:41 pm

Oversoul wrote:What. The. Fuck. Mastin.

Not helping my damn read on you. >_>

What are you saying WTF to?

Also, (probably related) if you can, would you mind stating the second paragraph a little more explicitly?

(I'll explain when I get to the current posts in my elaborate process. VCA comes first, readthrough second [probably at the end of here], and then a whole lotta ISOs to finish off third.

I need to be more thorough than I've ever been before.)

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1766 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:55 am

Mastin, stop with the self analyzing. Its pointless in game terms and does nothing to advance the situation. Finish your game review then post the finding of that.

@Oversoul: why do you ask about the townvtown thing? I can't recall if they did, but believe Spyrex and Empking didn't.

Oversoul · Post Post #1767 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:30 am

If anyone was conf scum and said their interaction was TvT. That in addition to Spyrex's list basically confirms that Mastin is town.

mastin2 · Post Post #1768 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:53 am

As veterans of Mastin know, I keep my notes in a Quicktopic for convenience. Unfortunately, quicktopics have this annoying four-link-per-post-limit.

So, I'm going to write up a post in here containing links to every single votecount in this game. (Why? Just advice I'm copying from my past-alt-self. It helped me when I was playing back then, to have a convenient link to a specific votecount I could come back to at any time without searching for it.)

It's of course part of my incoming VCA. (So, blatant IioA. The extra work will be worth it, though, in the long-run.)

votecount 1 (isolation #7, post 73).

votecount 2 (isolation #8, 145).

votecount 3 (isolation #9, 199).

VC 4 (isolation #10, 328).

VC 5 (isolation #11, 403).

VC 6 (isolation #14, 443).

VC 7 (isolation #18, 494).

VC 8 (isolation #20, 610).

VC 9 (isolation #23, 744).

VC 10 (isolation #25, 772). (It was annoying that Swag was still listed instead of Zepher so I still had to edit Swag's name into Zepher.)

VC 11 (isolation #26, 775).

VC 12, LYNCH (isolation #27, 815).

Votecount 2-1 (13) (isolation #30, 882).

VC 2-2 (14) (isolation #31, 904).

VC 2-3 (15), LYNCH (isolation #32, 917).

VC 3-1 (16) (isolation #36, 933).

VC 3-2 (17) (isolation #37, 964).

VC 3-3 (18) (isolation #38, 984).

VC 3-4 (19) (isolation #40, 1000).

VC 3-5 (20) (isolation #42, 1027).

VC 3-6 (21) (isolation #43, 1096).

VC 3-7 (22) (isolation #44, 1107).

VC 3-8 (23) (isolation #45, 1139).

VC 3-9 (24) (isolation #46, 1179).

VC 3-10 (25) (isolation #50, 1251).

VC 3-11 (26) (isolation #51, 1305).

VC 3-12 (27) (isolation #52, 1355).

VC 3-13 (28), LYNCH (isolation #53, 1365).

VC 4-1 (29) (isolation #56, 1384).

VC 4-2 (30) (isolation #57, 1413).

VC 4-3 (31) (isolation #58, 1429).

VC 4-4 (32) (isolation #59, 1468).

VC 4-5 (33) (isolation #60, 1476).

VC 4-6 (34) (isolation #61, 1529).

VC 4-7 (35) (isolation #62, 1620).

VC 4-8 (36), LYNCH (isolation #63, 1642).

Those are the last official votecounts under Reck. But we have a backup mod.

VC 5-1 (37), LYNCH (isolation #1 [Faraday], 1730).

And one more important bookmark.

1490, isolation #91 (kanyeknowsbest).

This is about as thorough as I can get, short of including the page number.

MrZepher · Post Post #1769 (ISO) » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:55 pm

I'm alive and reading what I missed

Oversoul, you can't be like

Mastin isn't town, OH [this] is helping my TOWN READ on you
OH, well Mastin COULD be confirmed town.

uhhhhhhhhhh....
I'm heavily exaggerating here, but the way you're choosing to broadcast your Mastin read (without any sort of explanations other than just blatantly saying it) comes off as kind of scummy to me.

kunkstar7 · Post Post #1770 (ISO) » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:09 am

V/la till Sunday.

xRECKONERx · Post Post #1771 (ISO) » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:27 am

I'm going to install a one-week deadline to make sure this doesn't drag on for too long.

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-08-19 11:30:00).

Oversoul · Post Post #1772 (ISO) » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:01 am

So are we going to go with Kunk's plan or what?

MrZepher · Post Post #1773 (ISO) » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:58 pm

Doesn't look like it.

Mastin wants to do his thing, which is fine.

mastin2 · Post Post #1774 (ISO) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:35 am

Spoiler: Every Votecount We've Had

Of course, as I said before, the only way I'll be able to analyze this all is to post it and work from there.