Mini 1148 -- Spare Me Mafia (Game Over)

[Apokalyptika]

/confirm, excited to start

[Apokalyptika]

Even if chess' claim is real, it's too much of a liability to keep him alive. Today it might be fine, but the later it gets, the worse killing unnecessary numbers of people would be.

[Apokalyptika]

that was to test to see fi maybe scum just couldnt spare each other
idfk

Yeah ok night night.

"That was just a test....

to see if I couldnt spare my buddy
<_<

>_>"

Wow, I didn't know I was capable of agreeing with Fate until just then.

Hm...Fishy, are you completely voteless?

[Apokalyptika]

Well, I'm feeling slightly suspicious of Fishy for OTT setup speculation.

Spare: IS

[Apokalyptika]

I don't know what the point of saying you have a FoS and not outing it is; if you have meta-tells on a player, just don't say anything, yes? If you say you have a mysterious FoS, you'd probably just end up putting everyone on guard and reducing the effectiveness of the mysterious tells anyway. Also, chess needs to be dead yesterday, but y'all know that already.

[Apokalyptika]

Why do I need to be dead yesterday? Because I claimed part of my role and for the second game in a row a bunch of setup outguessers decided it had to be a scum fakeclaim/scum role?

Clearly the problem is me.
Clearly

No, actually, because of

I have the power to fuck with your plans, btw.

and

that was to test to see fi maybe scum just couldnt spare each other
idfk

Also, I have been throwing reads out. None of the "oh I have a super secret FoS" stuff either.

[Apokalyptika]

Fate, I will not go along with your plan if you have two spare votes designated for yourself. Nobody gets more than one unless they're willing to stick their neck out there and give a damn good reason. Also, I strongly disagree with me/Duplicity dying, I would prefer The Mask/Tony. I'm not too sure at all about chess's claim, but I suppose it's best to let him live until tomorrow.

P-edit: 17 posts how in the hell.

[Apokalyptika]

Fate, wanna address why you've given yourself two spare votes in your plan or what?

Umbrage, I'm not exactly gleeful at the prospect of chess being a vig, but wanting to preemptively eliminate him d1 is scummy.

[Apokalyptika]

So, Fate, you want two votes for yourself because you don't think I'll go along with the plan?

But I won't go along with the plan if you designate two votes for yourself.

Also, the signal to noise ratio in this thread makes me deeply unhappy.

P-Edit: Freewill, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means, unless I've gravely misunderstood.

P-Edit 2: Good point, Fate. Freewill, who else did you want to pressure?

[Apokalyptika]

Quick thoughts: Klazam's WIFOMy defense of chess really doesn't sit well with me. Umbrage's first post about Fate saying "As if I'm town" was good, but the following one was horrible, especially since Fate said "buddies" in the first post that he was talking about. Fishy--you think that Nacho's complete absence from this game is better than Freewill, me, and Klazam? Really?

[Apokalyptika]

Fishy--you think that Nacho's complete absence from this game is better than Freewill, me, and Klazam? Really?

P-edit: And Duplicity exactly agrees with Fishy. Interesting. How do you reach the conclusion that vezok's town? I find him thoroughly null.

[Apokalyptika]

So I guess vezok's just saying random words that don't make any sense now. Ok then.

That is an excellent point regarding Nacho and Mask. Also, where the hell is Freewill? He needs to justify his vezok vote and give something to the game other than "Chess is scum". Now, I'm gonna dive headfirst into the CAPSLOCK RAGE and get a handle on this game.

[Apokalyptika]

Also, where the hell is Freewill? He needs to justify his vezok vote and give something to the game other than "Chess is scum".

Do I have to post in all caps to be noticed here?

[Apokalyptika]

I would like to draw everyone's attention to The Mask's post 172, in which he says Umbrage and Duplicity should be eliminated for setup speculation, then in the very same post speculates that CK3 and Fishy are on the same team due to balancing votes or some such nonsense. Also, he claims no role related reason to know if chess/fishy are town or scum and has stated no personal opinion as to their alignments. It's the very definition of IIoA, and to make it worse, it's the only post he's made that even vaguely contains content. There is no reason whatsoever that he should live past today. This post slightly inclines me to the belief that chess and Fishy are in fact on different teams, and if I had to pick one to be scum I'd incline towards chess.

Nacho

, when you come back, I'd like you to address your sparing of Mask and your opinion of his sparing you.

In other news, I feel there's something very fishy with Tony's sparing Fishy, but I don't know what.

[Apokalyptika]

...Ok, most unsatisfactory answer ever. So you think Mask is a policy spare even though his one post of substance has been thoroughly scummy? What are your other reads? Again, what do you think of him sparing you?

[Apokalyptika]

Exactly. Also, while we're here, anyone want to give me a quick rundown of why I'm on the chopping block?

[Apokalyptika]

I would be thoroughly satisfied with Mask dying. Also, you for admittedly not scumhunting and arguing about the lynch mechanics without even waiting for RC to answer your questions. In an ideal world, the non-spared list would read Freewill, Tony, and Mask.

Actually, looking at the last vote count, Mask is V/LA until after deadline. That's frustrating.

No, by Tuesday I meant this Tuesday, not next Tuesday. I'll start looking for a replacement if he doesn't post today.

[Apokalyptika]

Nacho's neutral by himself. I'm not a fan of his interactions with Mask, but I'm not particularly inclined to see him die today, and Mask's V/LA ensures that he won't.

Also, Freewill, there is

no point

in having this debate. It contributes nothing to the thread except clutter. You've been confused about the lynch mechanics since the game began; surely you would have thought to ask the mod some questions at some point, instead of blindly hypothesizing?

[Apokalyptika]

In an ideal world, the non-spared list would read Freewill, Tony, and Mask.

This is because I put you in my wishlist, isn't it.

No, you just really haven't contributed. All your posts are one-liners.

Also, I don't see why I shouldn't be saved. I've scumhunted, I've discussed, I've contributed. You can't say the same of some people currently being saved.

[Apokalyptika]

I'm about 99% sure that Freewill is scum now, trying to make me look scummy by association. Also, I'm giddy with excitement waiting for Protoss; he'd better come up with some good stuff.

Klazam, if you want to live, maybe you should bring out that amazing list of reads, no?

[Apokalyptika]

I'm about 99% sure that Freewill is scum now, trying to make me look scummy by association. Also, I'm giddy with excitement waiting for Protoss; he'd better come up with some good stuff.

Klazam, if you want to live, maybe you should bring out that amazing list of reads, no?

99%! That's pretty sure. So you're saying if someone came to you with the following deal, you'd take it:

You put in $100. Bookie puts in $2. If I'm scum, you get the $2. If I'm town, the bookie gets your $100.

If I were a gambling woman? Yes.

[Apokalyptika]

So Nacho and vezok are cross-sparing now. Just FYI.

Glad to see Protoss working to make his slot look better...but will it be enough?

[Apokalyptika]

Oh, IS, you don't have to worry about me.

I want to whore myself out for a spare, but Freewill just won't stop being scum.

Also:

Damn it....

I don't see scum saving me at the last minute when they could justify letting me die.


OR IS THAT WHAT YOU WHAT ME TO THINK

YOU TWO FACED BASTARD

I've been confident in Freewill being town since we got into that little argument.

Buuuuut he should die by policy. Because I would rather winning/losing be decided by Fate.

But anyways, I don't really like the idea of Fate being saved by one of the damned. Because if he unspares right before deadline, then Fate's screwed and there's no loss for scum-Freewill.

Is Freewill scum or town, Nacho? Pick a side.

P-Edit: <3

[Apokalyptika]

chesskid3--Hoo boy. There's a lot of stuff going on here. Basically, all my reads on him devolve into a bunch of WIFOM: Would scum really claim vig needing two votes given how conspicuous it is? Is he fake claiming? Is that his real claim? WOuld it be balanced in this game? At the moment, I'm inclined to believe that he's telling the truth, but I end up going back and forth a lot. That being said, he's obviously not dying today.

Fate--Slightly town, although I admit that I'm bad at reading him.

vezok--Null leaning scum. Admittedly I don't really know how to read him, and I generally find him annoying, but there are juicier targets today.

Tony--Posting has been very lacking in content, also:

spare: vezo

I'm gonna start "sparing" my suspects, and I don't like the questioning of his own town cred

Please don't. It's way too confusing. FoS if you must.

Thought it more of a practical thing. Like if deadline/lynchlevel nears, i can move off them to get them lynched. (if i'm the only one on them)

But this would be selfish, and fuck up vote counts, i guess.

spare: Fate

Very scummy post. I'm quite comfortable with him dying today,

IS--Town. He's been aggressive all game, and his role is the most believable and town out of all the claims.

Umbrage--Null leaning scum; there's a lot of shouting, but not that much content going with it.

Freewill--Scum. He should die today.

Nacho--A bit tricky. He's null by himself, but he keeps getting buddy-buddy with scummy people.

Klazam--I don't think he's scum, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if he posted more often. Also, he's had 3 posts so far asking why he's not being spared, which smacks of desperation.

Mask/Protoss--Mask was thoroughly scummy, Protoss has been null so far, but unfortunately replaced into a bad slot. Unless he pulls something spectacular, he should die today.

Fishy--I'm torn here. His roleclaim, or at least the extent of it that he's revealed to us, is scummy. However, I don't find him scummy outside of that. Obviously worth keeping an eye on.

Duplicity--Townish. There's been fairly good analysis and contributions here. I have a little twinge of complaint with their misrepresentation of my meta, but otherwise good stuff.

Also, Freewill, what on earth are you talking about?

[Apokalyptika]

Um what the hell. Scum unsparing Fate right before deadline? At least he's dying.

[Apokalyptika]

Oh man, I can't wait for nacho to get in here. My read on him is now officially scum, as is my read on vezok. From what I've seen of vezok's play in the past, while his scumhunting isn't alwaysthe best, it's not as atrocious as it is here. I think he's scum trying to slip by, knowing that he'll get called a VI rather than scum.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok, so you're masons now I guess. Hard to believe scum would fakeclaim masons, hard to believe masons would be so scummy.

I don't know what kind of shenanigans may be going on under the surface, but I think it would be counterproductive to rolefish more.

Spare: IS

We definitely need an investigation on one of the "masons".

[Apokalyptika]

Duplicity, what do you think mass-claiming now will tell us that we need to know? Furthermore, how do you think it will do that and not be more informative to scum?

[Apokalyptika]

Ok, maybe I've missed something, but why is there an assumption that there is a singular town role that (somehow) stops scum from cross-sparing?

[blatant unfounded speculation]

Maybe it's some restriction of the mafia. Maybe at least one mafia has to be spared by some non-mafia member. Maybe if they all cross-spare, they get no NK.

[/blatant unfounded speculation]

Something like this would make infinitely more sense than some magical immortal townie that singlehandedly cripples scum.

[Apokalyptika]

If you're attempting to say that you believe outting the doctor is a scum-tell I will just laugh, and if you're attempting to say there's a roleblocker I will laugh harder. If there's a roleblocker you would have been roleblocked last night, therefore we can rule out that possibilty.

If we do indeed have a doctor claim it would have to be one of the following people: Apok, Tony, Umbrage, Me. That's it, so lets consider these as P1, P2, P3, P4 and let P1 be the doctor.

If we lynch P2 and P3 today.
If P1 dies at night, you check either Vezo/Nacho.

This means tommorow the following people would be alive:
IS, P4, Vezo, Nacho, Fishy.

You would either have:
A) A clearance on Vezo/Nacho therefore clearing them both while still having a clearance on Fishy meaning P4 would have to be the last scum to you, win.
B) A guilty on Vezo/Nacho meaning you would know both of the remaining mafia, win.

But you just said

Your plan doesn't take into account the fact that there's likely no doctor in the game and that IS will die tonight leaving you with close to nothing tommorow.

If there is no doctor, your plan utterly fails. You don't think there is a doctor. Therefore, in your own view, your plan should utterly fail.

[Apokalyptika]

Ok. I've thought about it, and I'm willing to go along with Umbrage's plan.

Unspare, Spare: Nacho

This is solely under the condition that we agree on this.

[Apokalyptika]

Fishy's role was the second oddest role behind Chesskid and since CK flipped town, I might as well checkout Fishy and see what we are dealing with.

Are you attempting to say that you checked Fishy becuase CK was dead? CK wasn't dead when you made your check.

Oh hey, what is this now? That is what I would call an EXCEEDINGLY INTERESTING STATEMENT.

[Apokalyptika]

Hey there Nacho; I've stated my suspicions and voted for the plan I believe to be optimal. This is the first new and interesting thing I've seen for a while.

[Apokalyptika]

That plan doesn't take into account a Nacho/vezok scum pair.

Also, it doesn't take into account an IS/Fishy scum pair.

[Apokalyptika]

Sounds good to me.

[Apokalyptika]

I'm not sparing you at the moment because I was going for the plan where I spared Nacho. Actually, I'll go back onto you until vezok and Nacho stop cross-sparing.

Unspare, Spare: IS

[Apokalyptika]

I hadn't thought of a Tony/IS pairing. Still, though, if the vig shot passes to another player upon death, then that should leave us with another clear, in which case we win anyway.

[Apokalyptika]

All right, let's do this.

[Apokalyptika]

...Ok, that was unexpected. Thinking, waiting for Umbrage's clarification.

Spare: vezok

Also: I'm going to be V/LA for a couple days. I should be able to post some.

[Apokalyptika]

Wow, ok. No intention of sparing Tony, for the record. Luckily, I am in the advantageous position of knowing that I'm not scum. Since there is no way that there are only two scum in this game, there's something we're missing.

From my point of view:

Vezok's confirmed town, leaving Tony, IS, Fishy, and Umbrage. I'm figuring 2 scum out of these. IS has confirmed Fishy and Umbrage's role names, so I doubt that he's scum. This leaves Tony, Fishy, and Umbrage. I doubt a Fishy/Umbrage scumteam, so Tony and Fishy/Umbrage. In that case, we come back to the whole mechanism against scum sparing each other thing, meaning that the team is probably Tony and Fishy, assuming I've thought this all through.

[Apokalyptika]

Eh, I'm not too fond of the whole me-dying thing, but I think that we've got this, so I'll go with it.

[Apokalyptika]

Blah. I screwed up. I especially love my last post where I pegged the scum team completely wrong.

I think one of the main parts I screwed up was trying to think through schemes of lynches each day so that we would always win, instead of just scumhunting. That meant that I didn't get nearly as firm a list of suspicions, and I grew less active because I got bored of the debate about the details of all these plans.

Yeah, in retrospect, lynching a mason was bad, but I have never before seen a mason pair that, individually, looked so ridiculously scummy. Sorry guys.

All in all, though, I enjoyed the game. Thanks to everyone playing, and thanks to RC for modding. If there's ever a Spare Me 2, count me in.