Mini #1081 - SitMOA Mafia (Endgame... Congrats, winners!)

[Narsis]

/confirmatory

[Narsis]

Dayvig: chesskid

for trying to tell me what to do.

[Narsis]

no it's actually in the rules. try reading them.

VOTE: malthusis

for not reading the rules. an obvscum thing to do.

[Narsis]

no it's actually in the rules. try reading them.

VOTE: malthusis

for not reading the rules. an obvscum thing to do.

That's weak, even for an RVS vote. I was thinking he was being sarcastic for calling the mod scum.

And by the way, how is asking for clarification on that point scummy?

asking for clarification isnt scummy. not reading the rules is.

also i thought you were referring to andrew's post as being sarcastic as it's the one you quoted.

[Narsis]

Unvote

RVS? over? already? but the game hasn't even officially started!

not that i'm complaining...

[Narsis]

@chesskid:

reason for vote?

well i was planning on doing some sort of wagon analysis of some type but due to unvotes being needed etc it seems we dont even have an official wagon...

[Narsis]

RVS is not over. Tsk tsk.

I was voting Narsis for a reaction. Didn't really get the one I was looking for, but his suggestion that he was going to do a VC analysis on page 4 of d1 is so ridiculously towncred fishing that I am happy with where my vote is.

ok then why a reaction from me instead of say...malthusis or andrew or gandalf or anyone else?

also, my "analysis" would be more along the lines of: "this guy's reason for voting him seems scummy/opportunistic" and is something i would have mentioned regardless of your vote on me or not. the statement isn't connected to your vote on me at all.

not to mention that there's nothing wrong with looking at votes early in the game. in fact that's essentially the only way you ever get out of the RVS.

[Narsis]

why me? really? did you really just do that?

i have nothing wrong with you choosing me, but i want to know why you chose me as opposed to someone else.

[Narsis]

Things Narsis has done:
Offer to do a wagon analysis but then not actually do it because, you know, everybody unvoted. (Towncred without doing any of the work required to actually earn said towncred? ithinkso)

it's not because everyone unvoted. it's because people weren't properly unvoting/voting when making their votes.

Say why me? when chosen as a target for a vote.

it's a legitimate question. i dont see the huge scum motivation behind asking it.

Lurk after being asked a question.

busy with things(play mafia isn't the only thing i do with my life)

i gotta say, wagon on chess looks oppurtunistic

i agree yet disagree. Dark Horse vote on chess is the only one that feels opportunistic imo, but it's borderline opportunistic. (as in there's still a good chance imo that it's not)

Chess is town.. He doesn't act like that as scum.
Let him live. Let's wagon a scum like malthusis.

vote matlhusis

two things:

1) people can change their meta
2) why is malthusis scum?

Name two people you have suspicions of, and explain them, please. Small suspicions are even fine, if that's all you have.

vezokpiraka: for not doing anything but actually being around and posting.
andrew94: for similar reasons

[Narsis]

So Vezok and Andrew are larger scum suspects to you than me,doom,darkhorse,mathusis all are?

at this point i believe so yes.

[Narsis]

Mmkay not sure I like that, but at least you're attempting.
Place a vote on your top suspect, please.

How do you feel about Vren and RBT, both of whom have yet to post besides confirming? (and in RBT's case one other post in which he votes for a player who is not in the game)
While you have a point about Andrew and Vezok both not providing both content, Andrew and Vezok recently both expressed opinions on recent events, and Vezok hopped on the Malthus wagon.

Thoughts?

VOTE: Vezokpiraka

meant to do that in my last post.

Vren and RBT just havent contributed period. which although i dont like i find less scummy then Vezok and andrew who have been posting and obviously following the game but haven't really put in a worthwhile contribution of any kind.

[Narsis]

leaning town:
Katsuki (good contribution, good questions, seems town so far)

i'm not quite seeing how Katsuki's contribution has been particularly good so far.

[Narsis]

Why Vezok over Andrew?

i see Vezok's active lurking as worse then andrew's.

[Narsis]

how am i active lurking, i said v/la. its lucky i am posting now instead of studying exam which is in 2 days

perhaps i should have used quotation marks on active lurking...

basically you are both posting and are showing that you are up to date with things but the posts have had very little worthwhile contributions. i find what you have been posting to be more worthwhile/being an attempt at something more worthwhile then Vezok's, hence my vote on Vezok.

[Narsis]

Gandalf, you went 0/2. As I have clearly indicated, Narsis is my highest suspect as of now (suspecting none of the current 5 people is ridiculous, there's probably one scum in there (most likely in Dark/Doom), and being suspicious of the least active non-flaking people is a cop out, imo).

PEDIT: RBT, who is VP then?

that's because at this point in the game i think that most likely most of the scum will be in the group of lurkers/less active people. it's far easier to not have to contribute at all then to actually do something where you might get caught.

[Narsis]

leaning town:
Katsuki (good contribution, good questions, seems town so far)

i'm not quite seeing how Katsuki's contribution has been particularly good so far.

Question, why?

because his ISO's #11 and #15 are the only posts with any real content that isnt essentially a re-statment of things already said.

[Narsis]

I'm not getting lynched....ever.....so ok boss.

over confident much?

[Narsis]

Also @ anyone voting for Vezok:
How do you feel about RBT, then? Since the case on vezok is that he hasn't provided content, why are your votes not on RBT?

you make a point. i dont like either.

[Narsis]

er, wouldnt vezo get nked?

maybe. maybe not. scum might keep him alive to put suspicion on him as being scum. or maybe he really is scum. i can easily see having a scum governor, or similar, in a game.

So, if you have decided you aren't going to participate in this game, why don't just you replace out, and not waste a vig shot? Kthxbie.

i agree with this.

[Narsis]

Forgot to throw in "and usually as town".

anyone who plays many games will be town in most of them as most games have more town then mafia. so on average they will be town more often. so if one does something in pretty much any, or most of their games, then it can't be used as a marker of their alignment. (at least not in this way)

[Narsis]

Okay, what I mean is that I've never seen him do it as scum. How's that?

much better.

although i still wont use it to call him town personally. the only reason i use meta is to take things that are more scummy or townie and move them towards the null side.

[Narsis]

been sorta dragging my feet with my vote...

Unvote

VOTE: RBT

why the switch?

1. A governor shot is an easily confirmed ability. Furthermore a scum fakeclaim make more sense going for doctor or cop or some other role like that that makes more flavour sense. (yeah WIFOM...fun stuff!)
2. It could be a useful ability later.
3. We can lynch him later if he doesnt continue contributing/does more scummy things.
4. RBT wagon looks good.

[Narsis]

Well this is a pressure wagon, and RBT knows it >_<. Lynching someone who hasn't contributed at all isn't very helpful, that's what vigs are for. The point of a pressure wagon is to pressure the person upon threat of being lynched to provide content. *sigh*

if you say a wagon is a pressure wagon...then where did the pressure go? now he knows he's not a lynch target so why even bother to do anything more then he already has been?

I didn't fullclaim, so how is me saying I have a no lynch shot bad?

because there was no reason to say so except to throw in WIFOM and try to draw suspicion off of you?

A no lynch is better than a guaranteed town lynch. You know that's exactly what I meant, so why did you feel the need to mention this?

except if you go as far as the town wanting to lynch you...then to the town it's not a guaranteed town lynch. and it's not like you using the ability would take suspicion off of you or put it on someone else.

For example, I won't be using my no lynch shot on anyone other than myself, since a no lynch is incredibly anti-town.

So you're saying that you're going to be anti-town and use an anti-town ability, but only when it saves your own skin, denying the town information?

this.

@vezok: since you claimed a one-shot governor power...care to share the flavour behind said shot?

same could be asked of chesskid...care to share the flavour behind the no lynch shot?

[Narsis]

- Not particularly, no. I feel no need to assist you with your fakeclaims, scum.

- When someone has made only 8 posts in the game and are being wagoned, unless they are Alzheimer's patients, they know it's pressure. Reasonable human beings will respond with content, but apparently we aren't dealing with one of those here.

Narsis, of all the things that have happened since your last post, surely something said by someone other than me has stuck out to you? How do you feel about a vezok/andrew scumteam? Still viable?

PEDIT: Vezok why did you answer him?

oh i'm quite knowledgable on the flavour. it's why i'm asking the question. i dont quite see how a gov shot or no lynch shot fit into the flavour. (well i have some suspicions...)

they may know it's pressure, or figure as much, but at least they are going to respond with content. unless of course you actually plan on lynching RBT come deadline...if not then why even have a vote on him? for pressure? but how is it pressure if he knows you arent actually planning on trying to get him lynched?

and no nothing else really stuck out to me.

a vezok/andrew scum team looks less viable then earlier.

[Narsis]

A site where I can refer to everything would be nice.

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/Dn ... yClass.pdf

start at page 6 and go to page 20...

[Narsis]

dude, but from where and what context.
i can only currently find a bit of them.
i would prefer if u said post 'number' or at least explained the context.

just saying X is scummy for doing Y is not enough and it confuses other ppl who just skim through the thread


cough

you say you are only skimming through the thread? additionally, it's really not that hard to follow where quotes are coming from if you are reading.

[Narsis]

@thadmiral i dont think there is. a few days is enough to forget

You're nitpicking.

Alright so just lists in general are bad? What if I had just written it out in a paragraph?

Ok, so I didn't explain myself very clearly. That is my fault. I shall try again as clearly as possible:
It has less to do with the fact that it is a list than it is a bunch of fairly weak tells. By combining the tells you made it seem like you had a solid case, as there were 5 of them, even though you didn't.
My line of reasoning is this:
- you were doing that to justify placing your vote while also trying to manipulate others in to believing your case was stronger than it was,
- town would have no reason to behave like this,
- therefore you are not town.

town do have a reason to behave like this though in some sense. if you can't convince anyone of your case against scum, then no matter how good a scumhunter you are, you aren't going to get them lynched.

[Narsis]

At this point, I feel it is safe to say Chess is definitely scum. As a general whole, you are guilty of a very solid tell of mine.

Claiming an extremely anti-town ability, and then failing to answer any questions or responses I've made to you only adds to this list.

Unvote; Vote:Chess

care to share the tell?

[Narsis]

I promise a post is incoming tonight.

Meanwhile...

OHOHOHO, THAT'S A NICE RICH CHAINSAW COMING FROM MALTHUSIS.

What's even better, he says he has a gut feeling about me, yet votes for my suspect? I THINK NOT!

Unvote, Vote RBT

if you are suspecting Malthusis so much why vote RBT?

[Narsis]

I'm just going to stop listening to andrew. However I promise if you use a watch action on me you won't regret it. I OFFER DELICIOUS MAGIC.

That being said, why is my RBT wagon falling apart. Fuck you people we're lynching him

O.o i thought it was just a pressure wagon. when you'd change your mind to making it a lynching wagon?

[Narsis]

oh i have no problem with it being a lynch wagon. was just wondering where your change of mind came in.

[Narsis]

I'm not sure whether I've said this already, but: CK is no longer one of my major suspects. Not just because of the claim. In fact, the claim proves nothing to me, because he has the perfect excuse to never actually prove it. He just isn't playing scummily anymore.

Andy and RBT are most likely to be scum at this point, with Doombunny and Adumbro each possibly taking up the last spot(if there is a third spot, which in a game like this, with this much town power, there probably is).

how do you know how much town power there is? at best so far there is a one shot gov and one shot no lynch.

[Narsis]

Correction: No matter what his role is, he's 100% anti-town, but his role is also almost definitely anti-town

how can you be 100% sure? unless you have some knowledge that the town doesn't then i dont see how it could possibly be a 100% guarantee.

[Narsis]

also i doubt that the game is breakable via flavour...in fact i'm pretty sure it isn't. (i asked the mod pre-game)

[Narsis]

i'm sorry but could you actually outline a case for why what i've done is scummy rather then just keep saying i am? i hate it when players do that.

[Narsis]

0 scumhunting, lots of sheeping. Only scum suspects are lurkers, don't give any information unless pressed to do so.
I feel like you're playing to survive, and don't care about lynching scum. Hence, you're scum.

try checking my meta. i'm like that day 1 in pretty much every game.


anyway i'd say hold off on the hammer a bit longer. i would like to hear more from RBT and we still have a few days before deadline.

Because him being town and me being town, with those abilities, just doesn't fit.

if i understand what you are saying correctly, then i also agree with this statement.

[Narsis]

Well yeah his didn't stack up with mine, hence the questions I asked as well.
The problem is I'm a specialist, so I didn't know if that was why. Anyone want to volunteer as Generalist who thinks his claim is bogus?

i think it may be better to wait until at least tomorrow before we out another potential PR...

[Narsis]

Narsis, this is my wagon, so it's my hammer. DONT YOU DARE STEAL MY HAMMER.

He gets to make some posts and stuff before I hammers though.

umm...i'm already on the wagon?

[Narsis]

i still want to see if he has anything else to say.

PEDIT: thanks for waiting chess.

[Narsis]

As scum, why would he come back? He's already served his purpose. All he'd be doing at this point is providing connections. The only reason he would come back if he was town, or thought he could convince us he was town by coming back.

that's exactly the reason why i want to wait. i doubt he could convince us he was town, but at the same time if he is town it gives him a chance to get any last thoughts out. and if he's scum, it's more information we can use(although it could bring in a whole whack of WIFOM).

[Narsis]

Absolute BS. I asked the mod the same question about triggered abilities and they said that they are passive free abilities. You can use 1 active ability at night and any triggered abilities will still activate.

I just want to let something clear: don't use my out-of-thread communication with you to confirm anything. You have been warned.

I want to clear things up regarding abilities: Most triggered abilities will activate themselves when the triggering condition is met. However, that may not be the case with all abilities.

O.o i would have expected you as a mod to expect the players to eventually bring up what you've talked with them about outside the thread. if you dont want people using it to try to confirm something, then don't tell them in the first place.

also what you said implies that malthusis did confirm that RBT was lying...

[Narsis]

Dude we can get both Dark Horse AND Narsis if you use it SCREAM

except i'm town?

also Dark Horse isn't a VT. 100% guaranteed.

[Narsis]

Dude we can get both Dark Horse AND Narsis if you use it SCREAM

except i'm town?

also Dark Horse isn't a VT. 100% guaranteed.

Is this role related info? Tell me or I'll shoot you.

it's related to the role i have plus what happened last night.

[Narsis]

Dude we can get both Dark Horse AND Narsis if you use it SCREAM

except i'm town?

also Dark Horse isn't a VT. 100% guaranteed.

Is this role related info? Tell me or I'll shoot you.

it's related to the role i have plus what happened last night.

Okay. Apparently you ARENT stupid enough that you forgot that there was a mass roleblock last night. However, at MC, I will be wanting to know EXACTLY how you have this info.

oh it's because of the mass roleblock that i know.

[Narsis]

He said "exactly how you know", not "please be more cryptic with your response".

Also I really think the mass block was a bad idea. Why did you decide to use it when you did chess?

he said at mass claim he wants to know exactly. ain't at the point yet.

[Narsis]

Oh basically Narsis just softclaimed VT. Whee.

Moving along, Katsuki owes me a nice protown post to get his townread back.

how astute of you.

tbh this game is starting to feel like a game of follow the cop.

[Narsis]

Vezok's town, dude.

He just got caught lying to keep himself from being nightkilled. Obv third party.

wouldn't town power roles also act in a similar fashion though?

[Narsis]

Vezok's town, dude.

He just got caught lying to keep himself from being nightkilled. Obv third party.

wouldn't town power roles also act in a similar fashion though?

Honestly there are like at least 4 softclaimed/claimed TPRs so far so self-preservation is a no-go.

true. he probably wouldn't be the mafia's top pick for a kill anyway even if he was a town power role.

[Narsis]

/me waves.

hi. this is the town in your scumlist speaking.

[Narsis]

Yup.

PEDIT: Make a case on somebody. Scumhunt. Do something to prove it.

scum hunt how? there has been next to no scum hunting by anyone this game. a bunch of players are lurking or V/LA, and almost all the discussion has been about who has what power roles and waiting for the night to come along so people can use them. hence the similarity to a follow the cop game...

PEDIT: yeah like there's going to be 3 third party roles in a 12 player game...

and for the record i didnt expect it to change his mind.

[Narsis]

Let's not even think about 3rd parties until there's like evidence that they exist. And no, Vezok is town.
Narsis and DarkHorse are the scummiest two players in the game, they need to be showing town they deserve to live right about now.

New Rule: If you kill someone at night, you take credit for it in your first post at the start of the next day.

Claiming it later = Policy Lynch.
That way, once we actually have a night, if there are a lot of unclaimed kills, we've got problems.

PEDIT: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

oh yay another of your posts with no scum hunting and setting things up in the future for an easy scum fakeclaim on a kill that confirms them as town(ier).

PEDIT: oh misread your post.

[Narsis]

Example of an acceptable vig:
I shot andrew94 because he's lurking, not providing content, and a distraction that needed to die before endgame.
Example of an unacceptable vig:
I shot chesskid because he was leading the town and that's bad for me.

except if andrew is town it's quite likely that scum made that acceptable vig to look more town.

[Narsis]

The point of this rule would be to stop like 6 people from all vigging each other. Also, it should give an idea of the number of anti-town killing roles out there.

PEDIT: Sure, but it forces scum to kill andrew then, which is a victory anyway.

which is a victory for scum if: there are 3 scum, we mislynch today, andrew is town, and no scum die during the night.

[Narsis]

EBWOP: correction: there needs to be at least one more town player killed on top of andrew.

[Narsis]

Narsis how many games have you played on-site?

if you are interested go take a look. (this is my 4th recent game but i played a few a couple years ago. i've also played for a few years offsite and in RL)

[Narsis]

Do you think I would make an obvious bus like that? (if it was a bus)

Sigh.

Narsis wagon is moving too fast. That's L-2 with Adumbro's replacement still owing a nice catchup post, and Katsuki owing a lot of posts.

wonder what that says about the wagon...

[Narsis]

i cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not

neither can i.

Unvote

VOTE: Doombunny

gogogo doombunny wagon!

[Narsis]

Narsis, you might as well just claim now

i thought i claimed townie?

but yeah i'm a vanilla townie. a Universalist.

[Narsis]

This is not rvs, you morons

i know.

and it's not a random vote either.

[Narsis]

Unvote

yeah was kinda a bit of a joke vote.

[Narsis]

Oh right, forgot about that shit. Malthusis does need to claim though.

If Narsis survives my dayvig(I have this weird suspicion that he will, he's just way too confident), someone vig him tonight.

it's not confidence. it's: i really dont care what happens in this game anymore.

[Narsis]

Adumbro has 24 hours to post or I'll keep my search for replacement.

@Narsis: Either you replace out or you play to your win condition. I hate whiners as you, so make your call. If you don't want to play, that's fine, but there's no way in hell I'm going to let you ruin the game experience for the other players.

can't quite see how i'm ruining it for them. they are going to do what they are going to do regardless of what i do. hence the defeated/whining attitude.

[Narsis]

Sorry, been busy.

I don't believe malt's claim. "Shield"? Seriously?

copying gandalf's case exactly doesn't really mean much you know.

[Narsis]

Yeah, DH is your buddy, don't worry. We already have that down. You don't need to make lame attempts at bussing for us to figure it out. Is malth your scumbuddy too? Or is he TP? If you answer, I'll give you a cookie.

he's not my buddy. dont know if he is TP or not though.

[Narsis]

Lolol. You actually answered. Do you like eCookies? Or do you want to rent a PO box so I can send you some?

just send me a picture of a nice cookie.

[Narsis]

Narsis reads as scum that's essentially giving up right now.

or just a player that has given up?

[Narsis]

Note: I really need to read the thread better...

Narsis reads as scum that's essentially giving up right now.

or just a player that has given up?

Narsis, it doesn't matter if you're going to get shot tonight. Assuming your town, you can still try to help us find scum, or at least give a list of who you think are scum so we can note it if you flip town. Giving up doesn't help the town one bit.

most people wouldn't really care about my list of scum/town anyway even after i flip town.

but yes point taken.

if it's worth anything, i'm finding it strange that this is the second day in a row where someone has claimed abilities and gandalf has called them obvscum for the claim because it doesn't mesh with the abilities he has. in the first case he was wrong. so i dont see why we should trust him so much about malthusis.

[Narsis]

I'm hesitant for one reason........ We've forced two claims already.

And by the way, I wasn't saying that malt was scum because shield was too obvious. I was simply saying that his claim didn't prove that he was town at all. The part that actually supported him being scum was the part about JK vs. doc.

tbh i view the JK as a weakened RB. so it does have it's uses. and besides, what you are questioning isn't whether he has the JK ability, but rather that the mod wouldn't give a JK ability to a protown player with unlimited doc protects. and that is modWIFOM and something we can't really know.

[Narsis]

Gandalf, I find it funny that you say I'm scum, but your point how "I couldve been so shocked that my scumbuddie was a lyncher target , so I decided not to comment on it", it's valid, as RBT wasn't scum.

Just pointing it out.

So maybe you're the third party, and you were surprised that there was another one? I don't really know, I just know that your play thus far has not been pro-town. ESPECIALLY bringing this up again, like 5 pages after we moved on.

or maybe you are the third party and are trying to keep suspicion off of you.

just because it's possible doesn't make it true. furthermore i really haven't seen much evidence pointing towards a lot of the accusations you have been making.

[Narsis]

enough with that chess and Katsuki. it's not helping.

[Narsis]

Malthusius should get lynched.

Like today.

:O a post from vezok!

[Narsis]

gah!!!!!!!!

i totally called gandalf scum!!!!!!

meh whatever.

[Narsis]

why claim a vengeful kill
if you do not have a vengeful kill

this as well.

[Narsis]

who had which roles?

also i'm sad being the one and only VT in the game.

[Narsis]

heh... i'd pre in for the next one but with my luck i'd get the townie role again.

[Narsis]

fun for you maybe...scum and having all those nice abilities...

[Narsis]

/pre-in, btw. Loved this game, even if we lost.
Great modding and flavor btw

again...fun for you. not so much for me.

[Narsis]

VT is a good role to have too though. Be agressive, attract a nightkill, or do a better job than people with power roles.

So uh we didn't do too badly, btw.
D1 scum lynch
D2 misslynch, but the slot was going to be hell in LYLO anyway
D3 SK lynch
D4 misslynch and then we lose by 1 :/


Pedit Yeah I knew Narsis was the VT, not sure why I said Doom had been it. W/e.

well i'm not aggressive. it's just not my style.

[Narsis]

err mod, how come the vengeful shot didnt happen.

did you really just ask that...?

the anti-magic amulet...

[Narsis]

he claimed pyromancer before Kat died though i believe. and he only needs to know the rolename to block him.

[Narsis]

any kind of death miller or anti-death miller has no place in a game unless it is a bastard mod game.

you did give fair warning about the amulet though.

[Narsis]

There's other ways to work with flavor that aren't so heavy handed and I'll hold to that. Doubly so since the amulet didn't stop the scum NK (If you're going to make it the death knell make it across the board).

And fake flips in a mini are bad news. A large I could swing behind but a mini has too little 'give' to allow a bounceback.

Not to take anything away it was a fun game and I'd pre-in but I'm still a little surprised at why some things happened the way they did.

also the fact that scum are likely to lie about their abilities (to an extent) meaning that the amulet isn't as effective against them that way either.

i think the reason the amulet didnt stop the one scum NK is so if everyone claimed, the game would essentially become mountainous.

[Narsis]

I think the pre-in slots are probably gone, but PM me when it enters signups?

drop me a pm as well.