Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

[Socrates]

GAME-SPECIFIC RULES:

1.

ITEM-GRABBING:

At varying times throughout the game, a number of items will be up for grabs. If you want to go for the item, type

Grab: ITEMNAME

. 25% of the player-list can do this, and they will be eligible to receive the item. Those names will be randomized on random.org, and one of the people on the list will receive the item.

2.

SCUM ITEM-GRABBING:

If scum are to grab the item in question, they will secretly destroy the item and remove it from play. Town will NOT be notified that the item has been destroyed, they will only be notified that it is up for grabs.

3.

ITEM USE:

Items grant night actions to the town recipients. A player who receives an item will keep that ability for the remainder of the game. Should that player die before using their ability, the item will re-enter the game up for grabs again. If the player uses that item even once before dying, the item will expire upon their death.

4.

LIST OF ITEMS:

These are the items that could potentially come into play during the game: flashlight, medkit, pipe bomb, shotgun, boomer bile, and defibrillator. All of these items have pro-town benefits.

Mod:

Will you publicly announce who gets which item?

Will a power role be able to both use an item and their power at night?

[Socrates]

Addendum:

If a scum wins the item, since they destroy it rather than gain control of it, will they be told what the item does?

[Socrates]

Oooh, one more:

Is it possible for multiple items to have the same effect?

[Socrates]

If this game takes more than 20 pages to reach a lynch, I shall consider it a failure.

vote:Almightybob

wagon wagon.

Anyone who gets an item should immediately claim and then use it at the next available opportunity. I shall take a failure to claim as proof that scum got it. Assuming that the effect of the item is at all provable, using the item will get us a confirmed townie.

[Socrates]

Vote: Socrates

.

For lynching me in PYP II totally unfairly. (I don't remember if it was you who lead the lynch, but you were scum, which is good enough.)

I think a fakeclaim of cop with a guilty on you qualifies as leading the lynch.

[Socrates]

Anyone who gets an item should immediately claim and then use it at the next available opportunity. I shall take a failure to claim as proof that scum got it. Assuming that the effect of the item is at all provable, using the item will get us a confirmed townie.

Actually, anyone think we should do something more sophisticated than just scrambling to see who gets the item?

If we all agree on one player to get the item (say, someone who is a big question mark to the town) then we get a useful tool for determining that persons alignment.

Say we give someone a gun and then tell them to shoot someone else. We can confirm a townie and get a bonus lynch from that, and if they can't, we have a likely scum on our hands. (yea yea, watch out for a role blocker, I know.)

Incidentally, I expect a powerful scum team. Just putting that out there.

[Socrates]

Charlie's a dumdum. If you are town, Charlie, don't say stuff like that in the future.

unvote, vote:Infrin

Im preeeety confident about this vote. I want to sit on why for now. Everyone should look at the way he responded to Charlie very closely.

Re: People's critisism towards my plan:

I think Bob has the right interpretation on how item grabbing works. Lets just say this for now, do NOT just impulsively attempt to grab the item if one appears. Wait and lets all talk about it first.

Re: Deathnote,

5.

ROLES:

You are allowed to directly quote your role PM.

I provided a sample role PM that the majority of the players have received, so you scum better not come crying to me about not having a safeclaim.

If you wish to claim your ability, targets, or other information you may have gathered, that is allowed. If you have a question about your role, I prefer you PM me about it so I don't reveal much to influence the others' gameplay. I will allow you to ask me a question in thread, but I may feel the need to answer via PM rather than publicly. If I PM you any such information,

do not

directly quote or paraphrase my message. It was PM'd for a reason.

Don't scum have a sample PM anyway? Or does this mean the mod was going to post a sample PM but forgot?

[Socrates]

Did I say I wanted a lynch within 20 pages? How about 10 Pages.

vote: DeathNote

I think you made a typo. It goes I F R I N N. Happy to help.

For the record, Ifrinn's attitude towards deathnote makes me think scum as well, but that might be confirmation bias right thar.

[Socrates]

unvote, vote:Infrin
Im preeeety confident about this vote. I want to sit on why for now. Everyone should look at the way he responded to Charlie very closely.

I looked again, not sure what I'm meant to be seeing though.

Here, let me put everything he said about charlie all together for you.

And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.

Charlie im not sure on what you are saying here.

Coz I get the feeling that items are there to give a powerless town some leverage.

How can you ponder this when we have seen nothing in the way of a flip? Refreshing from memory each boss has some kind of ability. Agreed it is up for debate but i'd be at loathe to say i think town is powerless considering that we would need some defence from them even minimally.

are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Both statements just rubbed me up the wrong way. If town receives an item tonight and then is killed off by scum the same night. In the scenario in your mind does this mean we'll have to wait another whole day for the item?
Charlie what is your experience with either part of the AI director? Ive checked your wiki but there is no love there.

Are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Sorry. I forgot to mention this sounded like rolefishing. Minus town points.

It should be pretty easy to see. And by "it" I mean "they".

Incidentally, Bob, why do you think Ifrinn bothered to tell you to chill about the wagon on you? How does it make you feel about him?

[Socrates]

*@Socrates: I like hearing people out. Addressing DeathNote is forbidden now? Im also awaiting for my other halves opinion on the matter as im currrently undecided.

DeathNote (4): DizzyIzzyB13, Ifrinn, almightybob, bv310

Bandwagoning a person you are "undecided" about and want to "hear out"?

Thatguy: Thats not quite what I was looking for but I like your style.

Bob: *sigh*

Charlie: Thoughts on Ifrin?

Doc: Is that a fishing pole I see in 92? Thoughts on Ifrin?

Fongoid: Bv is not scummy to me.

Bv: Ifrin is a better wagon. Come on over!

[Socrates]

Bob: *sigh*

Helpful.
So what has to happen before you actually say what you think is scummy? And what are you hoping to gain from keeping it a secret while still encouraging people to join the wagon?
More importantly, how are we going to get Amished and Anon to prove that they actually thought something was scummy about Ifrinn? As opposed to just going "Oh yeah that's what I meant" when you eventually do post?

If you present an actual case, I'm more than happy to look at it. But just saying "He's scummy just because, and if you can't see why tough" and then still encouraging people to vote... that's not good Town play.

Bob, what do YOU think my intentions are by being obtuse about this?

What do you think about my alignment?

@Socrates. Your scummying me because an ex told me that the main antagonists of L4D are the bosses? LMFAO. Oh well then i partially understand the suspicion. But from what i understood from him, the bosses were his main foes.

BZZZT. Try again.

Hey, Anon, Amished. I want to ask you guys a question. Nelly is ignoring the clamoring I am making about Ifrinn. Do you think this is at all significant?

[Socrates]

I am seriously pissed at deathnote. What part of "if an item appears, wait and let's discuss this?" is so hard to understand?

Right now I think we should just let deathnote have the item. To those that are getting all hot and bothered about scum killing the "power role", I don't think shooting deathnote is too big of an issue. If scum want to take the liberty of killing the town's easiest mislynch target, thats fine with me.

The item is probably not a killing ability nor an info ability, so I don't really care what it does.

Amished, I agree with your analysis, thought I think possibility two is most likely (1 large scum group, Nelly playing wait and see), and I am willing to consider the possibility that Nelly is town and genuinely not paying attention.

How does this compare to DocPotter, who has been more active than Nelly and has consistently talked AROUND the Ifrinn issue, and has yet to give a stance on it, despite me directly asking him?

[Socrates]

Grab: Boomer Bile

Boomer Bile in the game draws the horde, so I'd assume this is a one-shot vig weapon.

Sorry if this isn't following the plan, but I'd rather get it before scum does.

Grab: Boomer Bile

Mod, does that mean that if we get to the point of 6 players left in the game items will be first grab gets?

I hate you all. >.<

[Socrates]

If Deathnote, Bv, and Doc are all town I shall eat my hat and be very depressed at the same time.

[Socrates]

EBWOP: Okay, that post makes very little sense. Let me try again.

Say we choose person A to grab a Flashlight. Assuming the flashlight acts as an investigation (the Infected in the game are set off by light, so I'm assuming that's what it does). If Player A is scum, they can say that they investigated Player B and that Player B is scum when they are town. We're down one townie and then A gets the opportunity to talk their way out. I think the only items that would be completely safe bets would be the Defibrillator and the Shotgun.

If player A tries to pull that we have a caught scum on our hands. There is NO WAY player A should be allowed to talk his way out of a fake guilty result.

Giving an item to a scummy player is really the best thing to do. If they are scum, they have to consistantly lie and we can trap them if the ability is at all provable.

If they are town, we either force the scum to shoot a potential mislynch target (a GOOD thing) or we end up with a confirmed townie.

Win Win.

Doc, I have been very clear in the fact that my suspicion of Ifrinn has absolutely nothing to do with item theory and everything to do with his interactions with Charlie.

[Socrates]

Nelly, thats quite the blowback. I never said you were scummy because you didn't see what I see, I said you were scummy for ignoring something that I was trying to get everyone to comment on, and I even said that I wasn't dead set on you being scum.

I will have a very long and detailed post explaining myself after we get a few more people to comment on Ifrinn.

By far the most important person that I want to hear from right now is Dr. Cyanide, seeing as how his vote is currently resting on Ifrinn.

[Socrates]

I have a logical explanation for asking for a town sample PM. I am surprised that it got me as many votes as it did, especially since it was me who asked for it.

My role said "survivor" in it so naturally I was curious as if that meant I was a survivor who's goal was to make it to the end of the game alive or if that was the mods way of saying V.T. So I asked for a town sample PM to see how my role compared. Sure enough, the role says survivor thus confirming that I am indeed town.

This is exactly what I expected what deathnote to say, by the way. I asked a similar question to the mod.

This death note wagon is stupid.

[Socrates]

DONT MEGAPOST PEOPLE. Two-three lines is enough!

Also deathnote is town. We should all be voting Inhim now.

Soc, I think we just should spill the beans. Either people dont want to see it or something. I think the posterior debate after it should be more helpful than where we are right now.

Yea, sure. I'm cool with that. I mostly got what I was looking for.

Doc's last second jump on the wagon gave me the shivers too.

[Socrates]

This is going to be a mega post. Sorry Anon. I'll have a tl;dr at the bottom of my post.

For the record, I honestly have no idea whether Amished and Anon see the same thing I see. I suspect Doc doesn't, but thats a discussion for another time.

here's what I see:

And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.

Charlie im not sure on what you are saying here.

Sorry. I forgot to mention this sounded like rolefishing. Minus town points.

Condensed for people on the go:

What if Charlie is right!?

I don't get what you are talking about, Charlie. Please, tell me more!

Charlie's suggestion is scummy!

Talk about dissonance. He simultaneously tries to discredit my suggestion by using Charlies posit about power roles while calling Charlie scum for making said suggestion,

all while fishing for more information from Charlie.

How can you ponder this when we have seen nothing in the way of a flip? Refreshing from memory each boss has some kind of ability. Agreed it is up for debate but i'd be at loathe to say i think town is powerless considering that we would need some defense from them even minimally.

are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Both statements just rubbed me up the wrong way. If town receives an item tonight and then is killed off by scum the same night. In the scenario in your mind does this mean we'll have to wait another whole day for the item?Charlie what is your experience with either part of the AI director? Ive checked your wiki but there is no love there.

Ifrinn has a greater focus on trying to figure out the power of the town than hunting for scumbags, and here Ifrinn is fishing for whether or not Charlie has significant reasoning to believe there are no power roles, which is something that scum would be very concerned about. The questions Ifrinn asks have absolutely no weight on Charlie's alignment and serve to only fish for more information about what Charlie knows about the setup.

Speculation about the presence of power roles only helps the scum team find said power roles (For instance, Charlie is very obviously a vanilla townie, so the scum know to look elsewhere.) at this time and it is in the town's interest to stamp out such lines of questioning. Deliberately perpetuating this is absurdly pro-scum.

And just why is Charlie suggestion scummy? It rubbed him the wrong way. The only even vaguely concrete reason he gives for his suspicion is that it "sounded like role fishing". L. O. L.

Condemning an idea while simultaneously using it as fuel elsewhere, fishing for information about the setup, with contrived reasons for suspicion. What does this all add up to? Scum.

He is also riding the easy mislynch wagon while maintaining a facade of indecision, which is hilariously scummy.

---

I played coy about the reasoning involved because I wanted to use this as an opportunity to work on reads for the other players in the game. I have a couple town reads I am pretty sure about and I have a good idea who Ifrinn's buddies would be.

tl;dr: Ifrinn is AWFULLY curious about why Charlie might doubt the existance of power roles. Also, He calls the suggestion scummy while using it to push his agenda elsewhere.

[Socrates]

Oh. Hey. I almost forgot.

I still want the person who got the item to claim.

mod:

I know you won't announce who got the item, but will you announce when that person is decided upon?

[Socrates]

Hi Tar.

There were four going right away. Soc, how could it possibly be helpful to claim right away? Scum is going to go for that player for the NK, especially since no Survivors in the game had medical training, meaning no doctor unless someone has a medkit.

Will people stop with the freaking speculation about power roles?

Items drop back in to play if the person who has it is night killed, so I am not worried about losing the power, plus I think confirming a townie or catching a scum has more potential utility then whatever effect the item has, especially if we are confirming players that are scummy and potential lynch targets.

Bv, are you still happy with your deathnote vote? What do you think of Deathnote's explanation? Who is your second suspect?

thatguy, who is scum?

[Socrates]

V/LA for the next week. I'll try posting from my phone but it will be limited unless I find an alternative Internet connection.

[Socrates]

posting from my phone. I will have more to say once I have better access, but right now I would just like to ask if everyone on the deathnote wagon still feels that deathnote is the best lynch for today.

Also, the people not voting should throw out a vote.

[Socrates]

re: Ifrinn's response

Restating a series of events and then saying LOL doesn't qualify as a defense, I'm afraid I must inform you.

Also, I find it ridiculous that you are still hiding behind a need to consult with your other head in order to get out of contributing. Pray tell, where is the glorious insight from this other mystery head that you keep needing to talk to? At what point can we actually expect you to take a firm stance on anything?

Anon. In reference to why my vote is still on DN. I consider there to be a difference between chaotic evil and lawful incompetant evil. Be he town or be he scum, why would he have asked for a sample town pm? When rationally as town or scum you know your going to get into trouble for asking that question. So to me its WIFOMesque and only drawback for me is whether scumDN would be brave enough to pull off such a bold move. And this i have little doubt over if you reference X's - 100 mafia.

When something doesn't make sense for someone to do as any alignment, guess what that makes it? NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE. You are explicity voting for someone for a nulltell. The scummyness, It astounds me.

(By the way, is this Farside?)

[Socrates]

Charlie's "scumslip' does not excite me. I wonder whether or not the town might take my thoughts the wrong way quite often.

The pressure on TG is interesting, but he dropped one of the secret town tells I was looking for earlier, though it was admittedly a weak one. He also seems like the type that doesn't know how to handle pressure regardless of alignment.

And Scorates has been consistently opposed to Ifrinn, in his own jerkish, anti-town kinda way.

You see, this is the pot calling the white china black. In what way are the shenanigans I pulled earlier anti-town, Mrs. Active lurker?

Are you still happy with your deathnote vote, Dizzy? How do you feel about his response? What do YOU think if Ifrinn? Who is your biggest scum read outside of those two? Why?

[Socrates]

The pressure on TG is interesting, but he dropped one of the secret town tells I was looking for earlier, though it was admittedly a weak one.

What is it with you and expecting Town to trust you about things you won't tell us?

What do you think of the point I brought up in post 257? Thatguy claims he is voting Ifrinn for lining up people to grab items, when in fact it was you that did that, back in post 51. So he's voting Ifrinn for a reason that's incorrect. Is that on your secret Town tell list?

Is being wrong a scumtell?

(.oN :rewsnA)

[Socrates]

Is being wrong a scumtell?

(.oN :rewsnA)

Is trying to pass incorrect information off as the truth a scumtell?

(.seY :rewsnA)

What makes you think Thatguy was being disingenuous about his reasoning, instead of simply wrong?

[Socrates]

You see Bob, If I thought for even a second that you were being serious about that, I would be totally cool with that, but I don't think that. I think you don't have a good response to my question and are resorting to a snarky response in lieu of an answer, which I am not cool with at all.

[Socrates]

Uh, you proposed a plan that offered no benefit to the town whilst giving scum the identities of everyone who picked up an item (and thus, probably the only pro-town powers we get) and potentially allowing the scum to know what each item does in order that they better plan their future killing strategy. Oh yes, what a wonderfully not-anti-town-at-all plan THAT was.

Keep up. I unvoted DeathNote. I'm not voting for anyone right now. I unvoted when I was V/LA because hanging votes like that can be troublesome when you're not around to remove them, and his response to the pressure applied to him produced a reasonable answer that did not merit a revote.

Ifrinn is producing useful content, opposes anti-town play, is involved and is at the very least appearing to hunt scum. Town read.

My biggest scum read is the most anti-town player so far. Meaning you. Hi.

I have already explained what the pro-town benefit of my plan is and people have largely ignored it. I would keep arguing about it, but that horse is out of the stall and nothing productive will come from it.*

Frickin A, your response to my plan when I first suggested it was essentially "That plan is too powerful, so there must be a flaw, and thus we shouldn't do it." What happened to THAT reasoning, Dizzy?

I find it absolutely fascinating that I am your biggest scum read when this is word one that I have heard about it. I mean, I made that suggestion on what, page 3? Why did you wait until after Amished started pressuring Thatguy about it to suddenly pipe up about me being scummy, instead using your time to get all pissy with Glork? This is especially ridiculous because you aren't even voting me. You have yet to to push anything pro-actively and this post from you is purely reactive to my questioning.

I also call bullshit on your line that Ifrinn is hunting scum.

I could totally go for a Dizzy lynch if I can't get my Ifrinn lynch.

*Side note: One of these days I need to make a big post in MD about how a lot of players fundamentally misuse power roles.

[Socrates]

How dare you question the authority of my secret list! Just obey and think whatever my secret list tells you to think!

OK no, you're right. It's not on my secret list. I said that to illustrate how straight-up retarded the "secret list" line is.

Bleh. I already explained what I was doing with the Ifrinn case, and I see no need to explain the town tell I saw Thatguy drop at this time, especially as even I am not a great believer in it.

To your case on Thatguy, fair enough, I will accept that, though I don't agree with it. (I feel you have consistently misunderstood what my intentions were regarding Ifrinn, should I apply your reverse Hanlon's razor to you and assume that you are scum? I don't think so.)

[Socrates]

I'll have access to my primary computer again tomorrow, so I will start posting more regularly then.

Until then, can I have prod on: Dr. Cyanide (Hasn't posted in 13 days) and Tar (hasn't posted in 8 days) as well as a vote count?

People I want to hear from, but can't ask for a prod: Anon, Starbuck, Deathnote, and Jmj.

People need to start voting. Deadline is in a week. Its page 13. There is no excuse not to have some kind of suspect.

[Socrates]

FOS: Jmj

for going the whole day so far without voting even once, even though he is apparently following the game enough to correct Cry about being able to bold on his Android.

I want your top three scum suspects.

[Socrates]

I would still appreciate a vote count and a prod/replacement for Dr.Cyanide and/or Tarhalindur, Mod.

I agree I should have someone to suspect but when your so busy trying to defend yourself and just waiting for the next person to vote you, it is hard to get reads. I would say AlmightyBob kinda worries me, partially an OMGUS but mostly because he reasoning just doesn't make sense to me. Like he thinks he can get away with pushing for an easy lynch.

CMAR's last two posts do not appeal to me. He says he has "points of interest" to make it sound like he has something to contribute but the posts only contains questions that have been answered several times about the item picking up thing.

How do you feel about every person that has voted you? Is Bob is the only one who you feel is being disingenuous about riding your wagon? How about those that are riding the wagon but not pushing it?

Have you read my post 177? How about Bob's 280? Pom's 217? How do you feel about those cases and the people that they are on?

How do you feel about Dizzy, Amished, Jmj, Doc, Starbuck and Charlie?

[Socrates]

It seems that I am functionally alone on Ifrinn with the other two voters having flaked.

unvote, Vote: jmj3000

I'll be back, but in the meantime, I officially endorse this wagon.

[Socrates]

Furry, in your experience, how much does unwillingness to vote correlate to a players alignment (if at all)?

--

I think being purely passive and not doing anything to hunt scum like jmj is very anti-town and bad strategy, but if he actually believes what he is saying then I have a hard time calling him scum for it, regardless about how I feel about that playstyle.

Part of the reason that I thought it was scummy though is 1) that he wasn't doing anything in absence of the vote. He just wasn't posting at all, really. I can accept not voting so long as you still find a way to be an active participant, but he didn't. And 2) When I asked him for his three suspects, his answers for those suspects were the definition of "safe". His suspicion of me (I felt) was completely cribbed from izzy's post directly before his, Deathnote (god, that wagon needed to die a long time ago), and Izzy (for literally no reason, but she had received some flack from other posters).

I could potentially interpret this as scum not willing to commit anywhere and doesn't have a clear strategy on how he was going to get through the day and just BS'ed some weak reads to keep his options open.

But I could also interpret it as a townie this just hasn't put much thought in the game and is easily influence by other posters.

Hrm...

I need moar data.

[Socrates]

Where can I look to get a thorough look at the BV case? It seemed a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is lurking and acknowledged that?

I've seen him in multiple games while looking around the site and the impression I got of him as a player is that of a self conscious lurker who is aware of his low posting rate and doesn't like that. His play this game has sorta fit in with that so I never really had a problem with him so far, though I don't like that he still isn't doing anything is still sitting on the DN wagon (I think?).

Of course, I am shooting purely from the hip and its possible that that interpretation of BV wouldn't actually pan out on a thorough meta.

[Socrates]

Regarding my "setup speculation". What was my pro-scum intentions by asking the mod those questions? Why would I do it in the thread as scum, rather than through PM? I asked those questions because they affected the viability of my plan.

Regarding "I think there is a powerful scum team", I posted that with a very specific intention in mind. Right now I am second guessing myself about whether or not I should have said that, but I am going to just have to live with that for now.

The reason I said that people should stop setup speculation is because multiple people were being very transparent about what their roles are. Seriously, some people might have well have posted "I AM VANILLA" in big letters in their posts.

[Socrates]

Mod: I second the request for a deadline extension.

I don't quite understand Furry. What, in your eyes, is the distinction between Jmj and Bv that makes one significantly better than the other? Both have lurked and deigned not to scumhunt at all, with the only significant difference in their play so far that I have seen is that Bv shamelessly bandwagoned at the beginning of the game under the pre-text of pressure, which is something that townies do all the time.

Hrmph. I am kind of mellow on both of these wagons right now and if deadline wasn't looming I would try a second go at the Ifrinn wagon.

[Socrates]

I don't quite understand Furry. What, in your eyes, is the distinction between Jmj and Bv that makes one significantly better than the other? Both have lurked and deigned not to scumhunt at all, with the only significant difference in their play so far that I have seen is that Bv shamelessly bandwagoned at the beginning of the game under the pre-text of pressure, which is something that townies do all the time.

Actually if you read them both in iso, jmj has done more to explain his thoughts and suspicions then bv has, even if he refused to vote untill just now. While jmj isnt the epitome of town, he is way behind bv (and at least a handful others) on the list of who I want lynched.

Jmj only started being more verbose about his thoughts as a reflex to the pressure that he was receiving. If a wagon hadn't been building on him, I am confident that he would have kept on behaving as he was before. And changing one's behavior in response to pressure isn't overtly indicative of being town in any way because any scum with half a brain would know to do it.

This is the second time that I have seen jmj post something that contains thoughts that are taken from the post directly before his.

[Socrates]

My god, I wish we had more regular vote counts.

I'll try to get an Ifrinn case up tonight, but I don't know if further fracturing the town with less than three days until deadline is good strategy.

I don't really want to lynch either of Bv or jmj right now, though if push comes to shove I would vote to lynch jmj.

I would be willing to do a Dizzy lynch, as I have said before. I'll probably move my vote there if I decide to wait on Ifrinn.

I haven't gotten a chance to really think about Glork's case on Amished.

[Socrates]

5. ROLES:

You are allowed to directly quote your role PM.

I provided a sample role PM that the majority of the players have received, so you scum better not come crying to me about not having a safeclaim. If you wish to claim your ability, targets, or other information you may have gathered, that is allowed. If you have a question about your role, I prefer you PM me about it so I don't reveal much to influence the others' gameplay. I will allow you to ask me a question in thread, but I may feel the need to answer via PM rather than publicly. If I PM you any such information, do not directly quote or paraphrase my message. It was PM'd for a reason.

Quote your role PM, Jmj.

[Socrates]

5. ROLES: You are allowed to directly quote your role PM.

I provided a sample role PM that the majority of the players have received, so you scum better not come crying to me about not having a safeclaim.

If you wish to claim your ability, targets, or other information you may have gathered, that is allowed. If you have a question about your role, I prefer you PM me about it so I don't reveal much to influence the others' gameplay. I will allow you to ask me a question in thread, but I may feel the need to answer via PM rather than publicly. If I PM you any such information, do not directly quote or paraphrase my message. It was PM'd for a reason.

Quote your role PM, Jmj.

...?

I need to think.

[Socrates]

I am curious who would object to it and why.

[Socrates]

Hmm.

unvote, vote:izzy

This is probably the most viable lynch that I am willing to be a part of at this time.

[Socrates]

I am curious who would object to it and why.

There are legitimate reasons to object, not all of which are scummy. Those reasons aren't necessarily appropriate to this game, though.

EBWOP.

Never said there wasn't. I just wanted to hear if anyone was against it and what their justification would be.

[Socrates]

God dammit. Getting people to vote in this game is worse than pulling teeth. We wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for people like Jmj who refuse to vote unless they are "100% sure" (do you see now why that is a terrible, terrible playstyle, Jmj?) plus all the fricken lurkers in this game. Charlie, Doc, Bv, deathnote, and any other lurkers I am forgetting deserve a swift kick to the nads regardless of their alignment.

Right now I am going to blindly wagon the person with the most votes who's name is not on this list:

Bv
jmj
Charlie
deathnote
Tar
Glork
Socrates

Tomorrow I shall do away with the list and just vote for the person with the most votes, even if that person is myself.

I believe Bob has the most votes right now so:

unvote, vote:Bob

[Socrates]

What is frustrating right now is that if the town somehow miraculously picks a scumbag to make a deadline wagon on, all the scum have to do is lurk for 24 hours to avoid them getting lynched and they could get away with it since I am pretty sure there are a bunch of fairly inactive pro-town slots right now.

I want to hear some kind of vote related stance from: Ifrinn, Doc, Thatguy, Amished, Pom, and Bv

now

.

Glork, what do you plan to do if you don't get your Amished wagon in the next ~18 hours?

[Socrates]

Those were all people who have not said or done anything relevant since the jmj claim. Dramonic was on record of prefering a jmj lynch to others, even with the claim.

I forgot DeathNote. That's how many lurkers we have in this game that I can name 6 people off the top of my head and still forget one. The way the wagon's have born out makes me think he is town at this time anyway.

(Incidentally, after Dram's last post, the chances that Bob and Dram are scum together are near zero.)

Now let me fire that question back at you:

Hey guys, I've been kind of reading over, and I'll get something up tomorrow, just letting you all know, been busy last couple of days. I'm still around, and I'll be active tomorrow.

Any chance of this actually appearing before deadline?

Why draw attention of Thatguy specifically? Why not Doc or Ifrinn, who have also made similar promises but haven't done anything?

[Socrates]

Glork, what do you plan to do if you don't get your Amished wagon in the next ~18 hours?

I guess it depends on how other things shake down. But I can tell you're fishing for a wagon that you don't think I buy into, and that gives you bigtime minus points.

I see an active player clinging to a wagon that I don't think will go through and I don't want a no lynch. I am going to poke and prod and try to get a wagon going.

Why would I bother to provoke you as scum?

[Socrates]

Why would I bother to provoke you as scum?

Theoretically, if you are scum and Bob is town, you're trying to push me towards his wagon because you'd rather see a mislynch than a town lynch.

Personally, I'd rather see a scum lynch than either.

What exactly is your opinion of Amished to this point? I want every positive and negative you can think of.

If I would rather see a mislynch than no lynch, why did I not stick to the jmj lynch? It would be much easier for me as scum to start to badger people to vote for him on grounds of avoiding a no lynch than it would be bob.

Regarding Amished, I haven't really thought about him. I think I liked him early on, but I think that was colored by the fact that I really really wanted support for the Ifrinn wagon.

As I reflect on his play off of the top of my head:

Minus:
- I feel that he has been lurking.
-more specifically, he hasn't posted since the Jmj claim, which fits the profile of scum hoping that the inertia of the wagon plus the threat of deadline will be able to carry it through to a lynch without him having to push it more.
- I think his play around the Ifrinn wagon reeks of scum buddy. He rides it at the beginning when I was playing coy about it and it was unlikely to get much steam, but then later when it DOES start to gain steam, he jumps off and starts to attack a person who was on the wagon. But this isn't relevant until I see Ifrinn's alignment.
- I HATE his attack on thatguy in general. Its a classic beating up on a weak player who doesn't have his thoughts very organized.

I haven't really seen anything in the way of specific town tells from Amished.

So yea, I would be perfectly fine with an Amished lynch. I have been considering for the past 15 minutes whether or not I should move though. Amished is more likely scum than Bob, but I don't really have a town read on Bob and would prefer his lynch to a no-lynch. I am worried that moving my vote would further fracture the votes among the town and drastically increase the chance of a no-lynch occuring.

Bleh...

Fuck it.

unvote, vote: Amished

I'll be around at deadline to move it back if I have to.

[Socrates]

By the by, Glrok, nice work in getting Socrates to make your case against Amished for you. Real smooth.

That would actually make sense if I hadn't already made multiple valid points against Amished.

I'll admit that, rereading your posts, my initial impression that you had barely put forward a case was not entirely accurate. I still find Socrates' last post more convincing than what you've said though.

How about you move over then?

If you, Bob, Izzy, Jmj, and Pom all move now we can get a lynch.

[Socrates]

Starbuck, pop quiz. Which of these is true?

A) Amished lynch > no lynch
B) Amished lynch < no lynch
C) Amished lynch = no lynch

Correct answers are worth 1 point. Incorrect answers are worth 0 points. Not answering the question is accrues a -1 point penalty, so guessing is encouraged.

[Socrates]

Starbuck, pop quiz. Which of these is true?

A) Amished lynch > no lynch
B) Amished lynch < no lynch
C) Amished lynch = no lynch

Correct answers are worth 1 point. Incorrect answers are worth 0 points. Not answering the question is accrues a -1 point penalty, so guessing is encouraged.

Being a dick when you've helpd derail a wagon with less than 12 hours to go to deadline is highly questionable behaviour.

You know, for someone who doesn't hesitate to show attitude towards other people, you sure do offend quite easily.

If you are seriously upset because I asked her a question in a non-standard fashion, you really need to chill out.

[Socrates]

I'm so terrible at mafia.

Thats about all I have to say about this game.

[Socrates]

I had that question before I even got my role.