Left 4 Dead Mafia - Day 6?

[Socrates]

I am seriously pissed at deathnote. What part of "if an item appears, wait and let's discuss this?" is so hard to understand?

Right now I think we should just let deathnote have the item. To those that are getting all hot and bothered about scum killing the "power role", I don't think shooting deathnote is too big of an issue. If scum want to take the liberty of killing the town's easiest mislynch target, thats fine with me.

The item is probably not a killing ability nor an info ability, so I don't really care what it does.

Amished, I agree with your analysis, thought I think possibility two is most likely (1 large scum group, Nelly playing wait and see), and I am willing to consider the possibility that Nelly is town and genuinely not paying attention.

How does this compare to DocPotter, who has been more active than Nelly and has consistently talked AROUND the Ifrinn issue, and has yet to give a stance on it, despite me directly asking him?

[Socrates]

Grab: Boomer Bile

Boomer Bile in the game draws the horde, so I'd assume this is a one-shot vig weapon.

Sorry if this isn't following the plan, but I'd rather get it before scum does.

Grab: Boomer Bile

Mod, does that mean that if we get to the point of 6 players left in the game items will be first grab gets?

I hate you all. >.<

[bv310]

I think he has this game's enemies and a certain other ongoing zombie-themed game mixed up.

[Socrates]

If Deathnote, Bv, and Doc are all town I shall eat my hat and be very depressed at the same time.

[DeathNote]

I don't want to sit around and discuss it. You can out discuss me any day just like you could get me lynched in any game, despite my role. If we sit around and discuss it, then someone whom is Mafia and good at lying will run the discussion and practically get to choose whom gets the item. I like the, "first come, first serve" approach as it seems more random.

[Anon]

I don't want to sit around and discuss it. You can out discuss me any day just like you could get me lynched in any game, despite my role. If we sit around and discuss it, then someone whom is Mafia and good at lying will run the discussion and practically get to choose whom gets the item. I like the, "first come, first serve" approach as it seems more random.

Which is stupid because we could potentially clear someone we are about to lynch with this.

Why dont you think before doing things?

Rereading what I missed.

[bv310]

Anon, it's not revealed who had the item. Even if the scum grabbed it and destroyed it, they could say they have it and probably get away with it for a while.

[DocPotter]

Why do people keep saying that they'll eat their hat if I flip town? You're like the third or fourth.

Soc, if you haven't worked it out, I think your idea is for town to decide publically who gets an item, for the person who gets the item to announce themselves and what it does. I can't decide if this is stupidity, brilliance, or scummy. But I think it's not in the towns best interests. Or I'm completely missing something.

Ifrinn however seems to be advocating a more reasonble approach that is more in line with regular PR use/claiming.

But overall I think this item theory is confusing/hiding issues that we should be more concerned with.

[bv310]

EBWOP: Okay, that post makes very little sense. Let me try again.

Say we choose person A to grab a Flashlight. Assuming the flashlight acts as an investigation (the Infected in the game are set off by light, so I'm assuming that's what it does). If Player A is scum, they can say that they investigated Player B and that Player B is scum when they are town. We're down one townie and then A gets the opportunity to talk their way out. I think the only items that would be completely safe bets would be the Defibrillator and the Shotgun.

[almightybob]

Well if the planning thing is out the window,

Grab: Boomer Bile

.
So it's me, DeathNote, bv310 and Doc Potter.

[Socrates]

EBWOP: Okay, that post makes very little sense. Let me try again.

Say we choose person A to grab a Flashlight. Assuming the flashlight acts as an investigation (the Infected in the game are set off by light, so I'm assuming that's what it does). If Player A is scum, they can say that they investigated Player B and that Player B is scum when they are town. We're down one townie and then A gets the opportunity to talk their way out. I think the only items that would be completely safe bets would be the Defibrillator and the Shotgun.

If player A tries to pull that we have a caught scum on our hands. There is NO WAY player A should be allowed to talk his way out of a fake guilty result.

Giving an item to a scummy player is really the best thing to do. If they are scum, they have to consistantly lie and we can trap them if the ability is at all provable.

If they are town, we either force the scum to shoot a potential mislynch target (a GOOD thing) or we end up with a confirmed townie.

Win Win.

Doc, I have been very clear in the fact that my suspicion of Ifrinn has absolutely nothing to do with item theory and everything to do with his interactions with Charlie.

[Nelly632]

Charlie's a dumdum. If you are town, Charlie, don't say stuff like that in the future.

unvote, vote:Infrin

Im preeeety confident about this vote. I want to sit on why for now. Everyone should look at the way he responded to Charlie very closely.

Re: People's critisism towards my plan:

I think Bob has the right interpretation on how item grabbing works. Lets just say this for now, do NOT just impulsively attempt to grab the item if one appears. Wait and lets all talk about it first.

Re: Deathnote,

5.

ROLES:

You are allowed to directly quote your role PM.

I provided a sample role PM that the majority of the players have received, so you scum better not come crying to me about not having a safeclaim.

If you wish to claim your ability, targets, or other information you may have gathered, that is allowed. If you have a question about your role, I prefer you PM me about it so I don't reveal much to influence the others' gameplay. I will allow you to ask me a question in thread, but I may feel the need to answer via PM rather than publicly. If I PM you any such information,

do not

directly quote or paraphrase my message. It was PM'd for a reason.

Don't scum have a sample PM anyway? Or does this mean the mod was going to post a sample PM but forgot?

Ok so this is your first comment about Infrin and you ask us to refer to the post he made in response to Charlie... Which I have quoted below...

*Dr. Cyanide. Blatant OMGUS? How can you dignify that vote when it was only one half of me that voted you?

Socrates. While you are giving me the pro town buzz with your suggestions, as Pomegranite pointed out your plan could be flawed.
What with only 25% of the playerfield being able to grab the items it presents itself with an issue.
And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.

Charlie im not sure on what you are saying here.

Coz I get the feeling that items are there to give a powerless town some leverage.

How can you ponder this when we have seen nothing in the way of a flip? Refreshing from memory each boss has some kind of ability. Agreed it is up for debate but i'd be at loathe to say i think town is powerless considering that we would need some defence from them even minimally.

are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Both statements just rubbed me up the wrong way. If town receives an item tonight and then is killed off by scum the same night. In the scenario in your mind does this mean we'll have to wait another whole day for the item?
Charlie what is your experience with either part of the AI director? Ive checked your wiki but there is no love there.

4 Votes in what could be considered a single page? Not good. But nothing to get your knickers in a twist about AlmightyBob.

Re: a plan. I think that maybe after day2/3 people should debate on who they find most likely to be innocent and decide in order who should attempt to make the grab. Think of mass claiming. If one person is seen as most likely to be town they will make the grab and decide on who should go next etc.? Does that work for everyone? It should always be pre-empted so as not to have everyone scrabbling over each other like rats and fight among each other because they were beaten to the punch.

Pming is a very very bad idea. At least in the above scenario we still can see, structure and limit the potential of scum damage.
*

I've read this and personally do not see what you are talking about...

Unvote
Vote: Ifrinn

I'm pretty sure I know what Socrates is talking about and that's better than my reaction vote.

Ok he sees it but I do not...

lol Ifrinn's 69.

Unvote Vote: Iffrin.

Almightybob is also scum.

And people we are out of random stage, there are already two good places where to put your votes.

He must get it...

*Highly against all out chaos with the item grabbing but Ive given my thoughts on the matter.

However it would be splendid to know what it is i have apparently done. When people care to provide reasons to their votes i will answer to it then.

DeathNote. Why do you seem to intentionally land yourself in hot water in regard to pm's and such?
*

Ok well he does not get it but hell he is the one accused so why would he get it...

Did I say I wanted a lynch within 20 pages? How about 10 Pages.

vote: DeathNote

I think you made a typo. It goes I F R I N N. Happy to help.

For the record, Ifrinn's attitude towards deathnote makes me think scum as well, but that might be confirmation bias right thar.

Ok well you say his attitude toward DN is like a side note to the real reason so lets see...

unvote, vote:Infrin
Im preeeety confident about this vote. I want to sit on why for now. Everyone should look at the way he responded to Charlie very closely.

I looked again, not sure what I'm meant to be seeing though.

Here, let me put everything he said about charlie all together for you.

And if one person openly claims to have received a power role you can safely assume they would be chow food if Charlie is right in saying town have no set power roles.

Charlie im not sure on what you are saying here.

Coz I get the feeling that items are there to give a powerless town some leverage.

How can you ponder this when we have seen nothing in the way of a flip? Refreshing from memory each boss has some kind of ability. Agreed it is up for debate but i'd be at loathe to say i think town is powerless considering that we would need some defence from them even minimally.

are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Both statements just rubbed me up the wrong way. If town receives an item tonight and then is killed off by scum the same night. In the scenario in your mind does this mean we'll have to wait another whole day for the item?
Charlie what is your experience with either part of the AI director? Ive checked your wiki but there is no love there.

Are we certain that they ARE any town PRs in this zombie infested wasteland?

Sorry. I forgot to mention this sounded like rolefishing. Minus town points.

It should be pretty easy to see. And by "it" I mean "they".

Incidentally, Bob, why do you think Ifrinn bothered to tell you to chill about the wagon on you? How does it make you feel about him?

Its clearly not in my opinion...

*@Socrates: I like hearing people out. Addressing DeathNote is forbidden now? Im also awaiting for my other halves opinion on the matter as im currrently undecided.

DeathNote (4): DizzyIzzyB13, Ifrinn, almightybob, bv310

Bandwagoning a person you are "undecided" about and want to "hear out"?

Thatguy: Thats not quite what I was looking for but I like your style.

Bob: *sigh*

Charlie: Thoughts on Ifrin?

Doc: Is that a fishing pole I see in 92? Thoughts on Ifrin?

Fongoid: Bv is not scummy to me.

Bv: Ifrin is a better wagon. Come on over!

I like how Bob says he does not see it and instead of helping him out you just sigh at him...

Bob: *sigh*

Helpful.
So what has to happen before you actually say what you think is scummy? And what are you hoping to gain from keeping it a secret while still encouraging people to join the wagon?
More importantly, how are we going to get Amished and Anon to prove that they actually thought something was scummy about Ifrinn? As opposed to just going "Oh yeah that's what I meant" when you eventually do post?

If you present an actual case, I'm more than happy to look at it. But just saying "He's scummy just because, and if you can't see why tough" and then still encouraging people to vote... that's not good Town play.

Bob, what do YOU think my intentions are by being obtuse about this?

What do you think about my alignment?

@Socrates. Your scummying me because an ex told me that the main antagonists of L4D are the bosses? LMFAO. Oh well then i partially understand the suspicion. But from what i understood from him, the bosses were his main foes.

BZZZT. Try again.

Hey, Anon, Amished. I want to ask you guys a question. Nelly is ignoring the clamoring I am making about Ifrinn. Do you think this is at all significant?

Then this is the post you make about me ignoring your shit...



I hate to bethe one to say this but what ever happen to making a case about a person... You simply say that you see something and fail to explain it to us... Then whoever doesnt get it is a moron and you have yet to actually tell us what you see...

I dont see it... MY GOD I must be a moron is the way I feel you are thinking in your head...

If you want someone to see what you are saying then explain it and bare in mind that it is possible people do not look at comments the way you do...

I am seriously pissed at deathnote. What part of "if an item appears, wait and let's discuss this?" is so hard to understand?

Right now I think we should just let deathnote have the item. To those that are getting all hot and bothered about scum killing the "power role", I don't think shooting deathnote is too big of an issue. If scum want to take the liberty of killing the town's easiest mislynch target, thats fine with me.

The item is probably not a killing ability nor an info ability, so I don't really care what it does.

Amished, I agree with your analysis, thought I think possibility two is most likely (1 large scum group, Nelly playing wait and see), and I am willing to consider the possibility that Nelly is town and genuinely not paying attention.

How does this compare to DocPotter, who has been more active than Nelly and has consistently talked AROUND the Ifrinn issue, and has yet to give a stance on it, despite me directly asking him?

While I am not a fan of him right now I have to say that I am in agreement that we should have waited for a gameplan before jumping at this item...

BTW at your last little bit here I have to say that your failure to read my post is upsetting... I clearly said I was at work and would do my thing when arriving home and thus here you are above...

You have no point until you explain it and cannot expect people to jump with you...

Unvote

[almightybob]

Anyway, other stuff:

@Nelly's 109: That's why I consider it a scumslip - a mistake made by scum which exposes them as scum.
I certainly can't see any reason for a Townie to request a sample Town PM, not phrased the way he did. It wasn't "Mod, you forgot to post the sample PM", it was "Mod can I see a Town PM".

Bob, what do YOU think my intentions are by being obtuse about this?

What do you think about my alignment?

I will answer your questions after you answer mine.
I did you the courtesy of taking the time to outline my thoughts before. The least you can do is show me the same courtesy, by answering my questions when I ask you instead of just replying with the same questions back at me.

Bob: Well, he could just be pointing out a mod error, being a mod himself. Or tweeky Reck/Kise's nose a little. Or just being DN. He has something of a rep

It's not phrased like a mod correction, it's phrased like a request. Second is possible. Third is not an excuse I'm prepared to accept. I play Mafia by the Inverse Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice.

By the way, I am still intrigued by this post. What is everyone else's thoughts on this?

Clearly Dr Cyanide has assumed, as I and apparently Ifrinn also did, that the scum in this game will be given roles of the Special Infected from Left 4 Dead and/or Left 4 Dead 2.
Really, to anyone who's ever played the game, this is not a dramatic logical step. In the game, the Special Infected/Boss Infected/Zombie Lords/Whatever-the-fuck-you-want to-call-them are the only playable bad guys, so it makes sense that they will be the bad guys in a L4D-themed Mafia game.

Seriously, am I the only one who signed up to this game because they actually

play

L4D? I would have thought anyone who's played either game would instantly make the connection that the scum's roles will almost definitely be those of the Special Infected.




*preview edit* Jesus Christ Nelly. Don't quote the entire post just for a one-line response, quote the relevant part and say what post it's from. Bloody hell.

[DocPotter]

Socrates, what are you getting at re Charlie? That he says we have no power roles?

Amished, can you explain it?

If it's the "We have no power roles", well I asked Charlie about that and was happy with the answer. I can also show quite easily why I also think there are few to no power roles.

[Nelly632]

The purpose of quoting the entire post was so that no one could indicate I was minipulating the post or quoting what I want to be shown from it...

Sorry you are upset about it but clearly Socrates is trying his best to make everyone who is not on board with him as scum so I need everything to be on the up and up...

[almightybob]

The purpose of quoting the entire post was so that no one could indicate I was minipulating the post or quoting what I want to be shown from it...

Sorry you are upset about it but clearly Socrates is trying his best to make everyone who is not on board with him as scum so I need everything to be on the up and up...

If someone accuses you of quote-snipping, you can link to the post in question and show you weren't. Now I've got a wall to wade through to find probably 9 or 10 lines that are actually written by you.

[Nelly632]

The purpose of quoting the entire post was so that no one could indicate I was minipulating the post or quoting what I want to be shown from it...

Sorry you are upset about it but clearly Socrates is trying his best to make everyone who is not on board with him as scum so I need everything to be on the up and up...

If someone accuses you of quote-snipping, you can link to the post in question and show you weren't. Now I've got a wall to wade through to find probably 9 or 10 lines that are actually written by you.

My bad it wont happen again...

[Anon]

Always helps to have a reason for a position rather than just stating your opinion. Gives me something I can respond to. All I can really say to what you wrote is "NO U".

I find it hard that a townie posts stuff like this about his potential lynch.

Ooh yay, random wagon on me. Fun fun.

Smells like a scum maneuver to pretend you are being cool about it while you are in realness, worried about it. Not townieworried. Scumworried.

Hey, Anon, Amished. I want to ask you guys a question. Nelly is ignoring the clamoring I am making about Ifrinn. Do you think this is at all significant?

I think its null, could not be clear to him as it seems in 112. 109 is actually good posting if deathnote is town which I suspect.

Also stop wallotexting. People, one-two lines, Im pretty sure you can say all you want in those, lets make this game fun, not a pain to (re)read.

[Anon]

I might be missing something but my take on the Deathnote lynch is because he requested a sample PM...

My thinking is that if he infact was scum why not PM the MOD and simply ask for it in private? Instead he asks for it where everyone can see...

Deathnote voters, what do you think of this?

[Nelly632]

I might be missing something but my take on the Deathnote lynch is because he requested a sample PM...

My thinking is that if he infact was scum why not PM the MOD and simply ask for it in private? Instead he asks for it where everyone can see...

Deathnote voters, what do you think of this?

Players in general...

What do you think of the fact that this player is attempting to get people to backlash at me for not agreeing with there votes...

He clearly is pointing this out in a attempt to make me look like the bad guy for questioning Socrates lynch which he has yet to explain...

FOS ANON

[Anon]

Where did you get the impression I am attempting to get people to backlash at you for not agreeing with the votes?

[bv310]

I think that if he was absent-minded enough to request a role PM as scum, then he wouldn't think enough to PM.

[Nelly632]

I think that if he was absent-minded enough to request a role PM as scum, then he wouldn't think enough to PM.

True I can understand that point of view but we are basically assumigng he is dumb then?

[Anon]

Bv, so you think the scenario where he is dumb town is discarded?

Nelly, please

Where did you get the impression I am attempting to get people to backlash at you for not agreeing with the votes?

[Nelly632]

Bv, so you think the scenario where he is dumb town is discarded?

Nelly, please

Where did you get the impression I am attempting to get people to backlash at you for not agreeing with the votes?

Oh sorry didn't see that one...

My impression is based on the fact that it appears you, Socrates and the other fellow who are voting for Ifrinn are the only ones who see this so called scum move he has made in his post...

It feels as if you 3 are sticking together and attempting to make other players appear to be scummy with no evidence what so ever.

After my response to Socrates all of a sudden my post prior to situation where Socrates thinks I am scum is being pointed out in what must be a effort to make the 6 people voting for DN turn toward me and attack me...

This is my belief...

But please do tell exactly why you quoted that if not to attempt to get them to attack me?