Open 205 - Medical Mafia - Game Over Too Soon?

[mykonian]

are the rules for quack the same as for CPR when there is a protection?
can those doctors kill?
will the nurse become a normal doctor?

[mykonian]

are the rules for quack the same as for CPR when there is a protection?
can those doctors kill?
will the nurse become a normal doctor?

EBWOP can those doctors kill mafia?

[mykonian]

and will the roles become known after a kill/lynch?

First idea I have is to have the night actions in a "circle", everybody using their action, thereby having 2 random kills, (quack and CPR) and a lynch, giving randomly the chance we win the game night 2:

2/9 * 1/7+2/9 * 6/7 * 1/7 + 7/9 * 2/7 * 1/7 is about: 70/450 = 1/6.5

There is also a small chance we lose, which is much smaller (estimated just below 2%), further the game has to be won with scumhunting and using the strong firepower the town has, together with a nurse claim (don't really know when that has to be).

[mykonian]

probably, it will not. And since we have no way of telling who is going to be protected... We better lynch right today

And thank you mod.

I propose that I am going to make the order of the circle before the lynch, if we go with this plan

[mykonian]

Good luck / Have fun everyone.

Very interesting setup.

Well, it seems like our night strategy will be more important than our day discussion.

And that's why I'm calling Mykonian scum right now. His 'Great Plan' of doing the Night Actions in a circle pattern leads to an easy Mafia win.

We have nine players, player A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I. Let's say A and B are scum. Let's say the random circle will be E -> C -> A -> H -> I -> B -> F-> G -> D -> E.

The mafia know who the mafia and town are, so the doctors who will be 'protected' by the mafia won't be protected at all, so one of them will be killed by the mafia. The mafia now have a sure kill instead of a maybe kill. Additionally, the CPR Doctor and Quack Doctor will certainly kill because there are no other doctors protecting their victims. So, the next day we have three dead doctors. What a great strategy.

It's not flawless though. The CPR Doctor and the Quack Doctor can target the mafia so there's a chance both mafia will be killed by them. How to prevent this? By making sure that one of the mafia 'protects' the other mafia, so at least one of them will live. This requires that the circle is not random though, and this is where Mykonian's last post comes in, he requests in bold that he himself should make the circle. Mykonian wants to claim the circle so he can manipulate it.

Vote: Mykonian

For his mafia plan. Oh, and he's also trying to stop any discussion by suggesting that 'we better lynch right today'. Can he get any more scummy?

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill? And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway? And mykonian already knew that scum have to be next to each other in the circle, and that they should be "forced" to kill another scummy player.

Mykonian would rather have a towny choosing this circle, since then he is certain such a circle gets formed. From Mykonians point of view, there are only 2 people that are confirmed town: he, and the nurse. But mykonian doubts it is a good idea to let the nurse claim.

And what is that last thing? how am I stopping discussion when I'm starting it?

@Looker, I don't vote pregame.

Especially you, XScorpion

Why XScorpion in particular?

I disagree with Mykonian's plan.

There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town

;

it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents

, and it gives the mafia a clean nightkill.

His proposal to set up the circle himself is also suspect.

However, the plan may not be all that great, but I'm not sure that he's scum simply for suggesting it. It's too bold a move, and I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that.

@ all the bolded: why?

And for you people thinking there is a better strategy. There might be one. But I know that one is good for town, and that is not using night-powers. We have the choice, do that, or use "random" actions, since we don't know what we are doing.

The best thing about the circle, is that we will know what will happen next.

Some people said the kills in the circle were random. This is correct. That means they more likely hit a towny then scum. But scumkills never hit scum. This way you have 2 more way's to hit scum.

and why is it suspect to propose to make that circle yourself? Because town wants control so scum won't manipulate it?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

The first I remember was when someone suggested a follow-the-cop strategy, although it didn't go through because there ended up being no cop...it seemed like rolefishing to me anyway.
I guess you could just say I'm wary about the last game where a scum started the game by killing the RVS (I like RVS) and asking a bunch of role-fishing questions.
Obviously rolefishing is kind of pointless here, but I'm still wary of people with those 'innovative' ideas that kill my beloved RVS.

OMG there are people that

think

. Now, why are you excusing yourself for something that seems wrong, but you just can´t help it?

I wished I was a doublevoter

[mykonian]

Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

Because the reasons behind why your plan is horrible have already been given. Mindgamer said it best: assuming you are scum, your plan was to construct the circle yourself, organize it so that scum will be next to each other, then watch as 3 doctors get killed tonight.
If "not using night powers" was such a good strategy, why didn't you suggest it first?

because it isn't...

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

I don't understand what this means:

Now, why are you excusing yourself for something that seems wrong, but you just can´t help it?

In your post, you say you can't help your vote, because you had such a bad experience with scum in a recent game. Why that excuse?

On a side note, I don't think I've heard anything scummier than this yet:

Well, it seems like our night strategy will be more important than our day discussion.

This just screams scum to me.

[/quote]

Sadly, this is mindgamers quote, and even then it is completely out of context, since it was a joke of his. Are you manipulating, dear scorpion?

[/quote]

[mykonian]

That's

irrelevent, he obviously didn't suggest a plan, but we don't have to divert attention to that right now.

yes, well that part annoyed me. Everyone can show bad points. However, it is to be asked if they can be improved. In a few minutes, I'll give that a try, but it is so easy to discredit someone who takes initiative this way.

Well,

we all know that of ourselves. Why you? Scroll down to see a suggestion.

and why is it suspect to propose to make that circle yourself? Because town wants control so scum won't manipulate it?

Because you aren't cleared town in our eyes.

and who tells me you aren't scum? I have the mod telling me I'm town, and I rather don't let scum manipulate this.

The problem with a "townie-vote" is that it makes scum's job easy, and we don't yet know if we are going to protect that person.

[mykonian]

look, i believe that some of myko's strat is relevant, however it is somewhat flawed.

we definitely need a testing strat to test our doctor skills. I'd do the circle strat only if everyone else agrees to it, otherwise we could do a 'better variation of the idea'.

Starting point of my thinking:

we have 2 killing roles (CPR-Quack)
2 protective (JK-Doc)
1 investigative (weak doc)

Blocking is not that usefull to us yet (gets important closer to lylo, or when only 1 scum is left)

ok, myko strat v2:

We pick a group of minimal 3 players, and let them circle. We pick the scummy players for this. In case there is a CPR or Quack among them, one scummy player is gone now. Sadly, the same counts for the weak doc: the investigation is practically wasted. The rest of the players does nothing.

myko strat v3: we pick 3 players who are targets, we pick 3 other players who are going to target: same effect, if one of the targeting (townie) players is a CPR or Quack, we lost a scummy player. Benefit is that the weak doc's investigation (hard to find because of the scums kill, perhaps), is not completely wasted. The JK is not a problem here.


Both strategies limit the nightkills, and focus nightkills on scummy looking townies, making scumhunting easier later. That should fix most of the problems, right?

[mykonian]

Where did I say mafia couldn't kill?

You failed to mention they could kill.

SERIOUSLY?

you didn't even have doubts when you posted this?

And where do you promis that we won't have 3 dead doctor anyway?

Huh? I haven't even suggested a strategy of my own yet. What is this for kind of question?

Why are you not doing anything of yourself?

Why me? Because Lookerscum defeated my town last game
I've seen scum suggest plans like that before and been defended by "I don't think scum would want to go and suggest a plan like that." I'm not buying it again.

Vote: Mykonian

We aren't going to be friends. This is horrible reasoning (he is so towny he must be scum).

vote Xscorpion

. Because you avoid all discussion about why the plan is actually scummy, and just go with general consensus and conspiracy thinking.

And here we have another Strawman argument. XScorpion attacks the 'he is so scummy he must be town' reasoning. This does not mean that he thinks the opposite.
From what I can see, XScorpion seems to favour the 'he is so scummy he must be scum' theory, the only theory based on actual logic.

Lets see this objectively: people sticking their necks out, people proposing things, in stead of following are town. Scorp thinks I do this to manipulate = too towny principle. "He is so obviously sticking his neck out, it must have some purpose"

There is no general consensus. General consensus is the situation where EVERYONE agrees on a certain topic. Please elaborate on your 'conspiracy thinking' statement.

Very simple: I am trying to convince you of something, that must mean I'm scum, right? I must be manipulating you.

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work. You are this way stalling the coming of new ideas, since you consider someone that thinks of a new idea and tries to convince you, scum. Good luck ever trying to become better.

ever seen a 7-2 mountainous game? no, because that is horrible for town, scum wins 90%. So we have to use the powerroles someway.

Eh, yes? It's one of the four setups in Newbie games. According to AGar's analysis, scum wins that setup 64% of the time. Where did you get the 90% number from?

This is because scum is still scared of powerroles: the setups here and there aren't equal.

Though with the nurse, 90% is certainly too much.

Even then 36% is not enough for me. Playing with 1 confirmed vig, and 1 confirmed doc would make me much more happy.

I'm growing sick of these plans. These plans have the EXACT SAME FLAWS your earlier plan had.

1. The scum know who the doctors are going to target, so the scum get a 100% sure kill.

SOLVE IT. THEY HAVE THAT ANYWAY, OR YOUR PROTECTION IS ACCIDENTALLY A QUACK, AND YOU KILL HIM

2. After the night, we still don't know anything about the doctors due to the scum interference. If a doctor dies, do you call him a weak doctor? Who says the scum can't target a doctor-target to further complicate things? At the beginning of the next day, only the scum know every night action, and so only the scum can draw conclusions. The scum now have a few roles confirmed where the town is still in doubt. Yay?

this is why strat 2 is better: the targeting and target players are both scummy, making that any complications (scumkills/weak doc) are on people we want dead anyway.

As a matter of fact I do have an idea: We stop discussing the night and every individual does what they think is best, be it random or a strategy of their own. Here's why:

At this moment we have only one true advantage over the scum: We have so many protective roles that there is a high chance their night kill will fail. A failed scum kill is very valuable for the town. If the scum don't know what we are going to do, they can't act in accordance with it.

we have 2 roles that kill, 3 that save(with one of them the weak doctor) BRILLIANT PLAN. Suddenly a quack "protects" a confirmed towny: what now, GENIUS?

[mykonian]

@ Mykonian:

There is a much better chance of scum winning with this plan than town; it's far more likely that the doctor kills will land on innocents

Think about it. The scum have a guaranteed nightkill with the original circle plan by killing off one of the people they're supposed to be "protecting." The only way town gets a night scumkill is through one of our two killing roles getting lined up one at least one of the scum. The odds of both of our killing roles hitting both scum is nigh impossible. The odds of hitting just one isn't that much likelier. The odds of killing off an innocent are good. Meanwhile, the scum have a guaranteed nightkill. This is why I disagree with your plan.

Does it become better when we put 3 scummy (lurking) people in a circle targeting each other, thereby having the kills among the people we want gone anyway, and minimizing the negative effects?

Meanwhile, there's XScorpion.

Unvote: Looker. Vote: XScorpion.

You first simply call Mykonian's plan scummy without explaining why, and when quizzed about it you give an absolutely horrendous WIFOM reason. Then you misrepresent Mykonian by attributing a quote to him that was actually from Mindgamer. Right now, you're looking very scummy to me.

Yeah, I'm a bit more calm now:

XScorpion

I quoted mindgamer: why did this sentence end up under my name, and why don't you vote mindgamer for this ( I know you won't, I just want to hear from you, why)

[mykonian]

oh, sorry: in post 60, in the end, I posted my text bolded inside the quote, and forgot the later quote tags.

[mykonian]

one thing I don't understand:

How can everyone else going into this game missing one of the two pieces of information you have?

-the setup
-your role

Why did nobody think of how to get an advantage with this information?

[mykonian]

I haven't seen him earlier, so I don't think there was malicious intent, since by attacking me he could easily have posted.

About Xscorpion, I have seen him play, and I see his quote mistake as deliberate. I have read the game you two played in, so I know a bit how he plays, and my vote is on someone who looks scummy anyway.

However, in that game, nowhere he used manipulation to make a case, which he clearly did here by quoting mindgamer and calling it mine.

Since he would have to copy paste, change the name to mykonian, and add it to the case already there, I am pretty sure this was

deliberate

And the above: that is not playstyle, that is intelligence, mostly. You have made that choice conciously, which is ok, but they clearly didn't.

[mykonian]

And in the end, you only lynch the person that stands out, not the scummo's,

who generally don't want to stand out

. Which is why tells as bandwagoning work.

In the end you lynch the scummo's obviously. Are you joking here?
Bandwagons are used for pressure btw.

Are you stupid or are you scum? OBVIOUSLY we lynch scummos. That is why IIRC, scum wins most of the games here.

Why would that be? Because a lot players have no idea what makes someone scum. We have sadly a rather big concentration of people who are policy lynching through the game. So, if you want to try, please, lynch me.

Lets see if you hit scum. Because OBVIOUSLY, you will. Because you are lynching the person that stands out.

[mykonian]

mindgamer, you have to make a better strategy to call mine bad.

Further, a conspiracy is not based on facts, but on the feeling people are fooling you.

The nurse could become a confirmed towny (it would be very ineffective for scum to counterclaim.) But, as long as we don't know who our protective roles are, there is no use in letting the nurse claim. You really haven't read the setup, have you?

[mykonian]

why did this sentence end up under my name, and why don't you vote mindgamer for this ( I know you won't, I just want to hear from you, why)

Because
1) I wasn't paying attention
2) Because coming from him, it's not serious.

Whereas it seems kind of like the thing you would say and mean it.

I still don't like how you are putting so much emphasis on night actions and very little during the day on who is scum and why we should vote them. Do you honestly not suspect anyone other than me? When I die, who are you voting next?

uhm, 2 things people. First, the bolded: if you are going to think I have bad intentions anyway, then there is little reason to wait for what I post, you are going to think anyway that I'm scum for it. The bolded shows tunneling: you expect me to be scum.

Further, Xscorp, you follow kyle nicely on the "mykonian is focussing on night actions, and not scumhunting"

Theory discussion made that we almost completely skipped the RVS, but that doesn't mean I already know by

PAGE 3

who is scum. Seriously, be happy I have one case, that even works on someone who fails anyway.

I could make an argument that Kyle is very wishy-washy about me, the whole game long, fueling the wagon, but staying of it anyway. I could make a case that mindgamer practically doesn't attack anyone but me. Practically nobody (apart from looker and StK) are seriously scumhunting.

But seen from earlier games (kyle xscorp) you aren't the most brilliant players.

@Kyle, theory discussion during the start of the game isn't bad. And you can't say I have only discussed theory

[mykonian]

hey guys. just finished reading (although only briefly skimmed through some) @_@

I don't have a better variation in mind, looker so i can't comment there.

After reading, i conclude that we should all go our separate ways for night 1. this circle thing proves to benefit the scum, and we don't want that do we? myko's 2nd and 3rd revisions aren't great either, there are still significant flaws in it.

do you propose trying to protect the townies, or do you propose to kill the scum?

[mykonian]

StK. Why would town claim mafia. twice. in one post?

they won't. Nor will they use sarcasm when criticized, or even (in case of the theory) ignore it.

unvote vote mindgamer

Further, scum and town differ not in the mistakes they make, they differ in the motives they have. Town wants to find scum, they try to make the game understandable, but on the other hand, not predictable for scum. And they want the truth.

Scum wants to stay alive, wants the game to be orderly, and from this (mostly the first) follows that scum usually have the motive to be not noticed (WIFOM, but with a larger percentage to the scum hiding)

All the tells you have in the wiki come down to those motives becoming visible, but they only work in sometimes. Omgus, for example, is a inaccurate tell since townies who are "unfairly" under attack have the idea their accuser must be scum. Scum misuse it to get their attacker under pressure, but this isn't happening very often, so that tell basically doesn't work.

Bandwagonning, the adding of a vote to a bandwagon while you have given no explanation other then that you want to lynch that guy is a more effective tell, since this could show the motive of scum that they want to stay alive (and to direct the lynch on a towny), starting a wagon, on the other hand, is more risky for scum.

etc etc.

[mykonian]

@the comment on mindgamers scum claim, I played multiple games with him, and it's just part of his playstyle... sarcasm, I guess. but seriously, scumhunting = voting someone who claimed 2x scum? Don't know what to think about that.

@StK. A scumclaim is indeed an overrated tell. But people get lynched for it.

This opposed to sarcasm. Sarcasm is stepping away from criticism, with a joke. It is avoiding the problem. It is actually quite a good tell, but not an accepted one.


Further, I was asked how to find scum. What I said was general, only affected by WIFOM further (scum wanting to look town), which makes that this game isn't easy.

And as you can see, I have my opinions about Kyle and Xscorp already there. That means I have arguments against 3 people now. I think it is because I have a lot of posts that you see a lot of theory.

There is one problem with my arguments. They are all on "weaker" players.

[mykonian]

I don't trust Light mainly because of his agreement with mykonians plan before even really thinking it through. Mykonians plan had several flaws, with one being that

a mafia can influence the circle in such way that he can protect his mafia buddies.

Now the logical procedure would be that his mafia buddy would support him in his plan so he could make the circle profitable for mafia, right?
Besides that he is really trying to stay out of the spotlight a bit too much. Just vibes there though.

The scumtell on the plan is obvious. Mindgamer pointed it out already, the plan is profitable to scum only if the scum itself makes it, and Mykonian immediatly suggests doing it, while not thinking other options through (like my plan (electing somebody)).

Xscrop vs others looks like TvT because I don't really get any scum vibes from either of you guys involved in the argument. Just thinking a bunch of misguided townies right now.

Myko wanted to avoid the bolded.
myko of course thought about a towny vote, but didn't like the consequeses: scum knows who to kill, and still can influence the making of the circle. Further, systems like that are usually doomed because they don't come to a decision.

So ehh, what is the obvious scumtell here? that the plan can be manipulated? Who knows, maybe lynches are manipulated by scum? lets not do them then!

Horrible logic, Disco

[mykonian]

the above post is scummy.

First, he is

consistent

by finding me scum, even accusing people who don't agree of being scum (Looker). He even continues with attacking Looker....

and bandwagons Light. That is just weak.


And Disco, horrible logic is done by both scum and town, please tell me what you think of Kyle.

@StK

if you are scum, how would you be caught (as in, what are your scumtells?)

[mykonian]

and bandwagons Light. That is just weak.

Says the one who wants to bandwagon danny?

and where have I said that. I know looker did. But I didn't. And even if I did, that doesn't mean Mindgamer isn't scummy for it. ad hominem.

And Disco, horrible logic is done by both scum and town, please tell me what you think of Kyle.

Ignoring the first part as it's obviously the most

moronic

thing you can possibly say, I will ask you:
What is there to think about Kyle?
He once denied putting you at L-1, which was the correct course of action, then he suspected a looker+myko scum team (which is oh so coincidentily also suspected by mindgamer atm) theres not much to think except for what he's done seems fine so far.

what do YOU think about kyle?

HOW CAN YOU CALL LOGIC HORRIBLE IF YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WAS ALL ABOUT.

sigh, i got that out of my system.

way of totally not answering the question. My answer is actually in the thread already, I advice you to read it.

[mykonian]

@ Mykonian: Why would I want to disclose that kind of information? Even if I did, would you believe me? If you really want to know, go meta me on my scum games and decide for yourself what my scumtells are.

Town doesn't mind giving this information. Please answer the question, StK.

[mykonian]

@ Mykonian: Why would I want to disclose that kind of information? Even if I did, would you believe me? If you really want to know, go meta me on my scum games and decide for yourself what my scumtells are.

Town doesn't mind giving this information. Please answer the question, StK.

But I'm not always going to be town. It's not in my best interests as a player to disclose my weaknesses. As I stated before, you are free to look up my meta, check my scum games, and see how I play then to determine my scumtells. I will not, however, tell you outright.

It is frowned upon to play suboptimally as town to make you play better as scum. Please don't do that, and answer the question. Why would you as a good towny not tell us?

Or are you scum that is afraid to give this information?

[mykonian]

Mykonian stop bugging Saint, it's getting us nowhere since you started it and it's the prime example of psuedo-scumhunting.

I heard light say 'you know what your role does etc' this is not true. What if you are a killing role and target the same target as the normal doctor, and nothing happens. what do you know now?

unvote

gonna retreat my vote... for now. I want to keep options open.

@Light, what exactly about Mindgamers post makes you think he's one of the townies?

Oh, and why is this pseudo-scumhunting.

No, disco, the point is very simple. There is only one type of player that doesn't want to tell how we can catch him if he is scum.

and that is scum. I actually don't care what the tells would be,

I am much more interested if the person wants to avoid the question

, because that is a hard and definate scumtell.

This with the defensiveness of StK of me, right in the beginning (for looker this is rather normal, seen his meta), but for StK, he has to know something, I think.

But that point is hardly convincing, so I needed more evidence. And here you have it.

unvote vote StK

You are scum.

[mykonian]

After mulling it over for a while, I still think Mykonian is the person to lynch now.

vote: Mykonian

I really think that we're going to win this game by scumhunting. Relying on night-actions could really blow up in our face.

I has the superior argument, LETS DO BOTH.

Please, kyle, since when is it normal to scumhunt, since when have I said I absolutely wouldn't do that? Actually, you are the one who has only debated with yourself to vote or not, and have given very little information.

So, get scumhunting, and stop pretending like I don't want to. This vote sucks.

[mykonian]

How is avoiding your question a "hard and definite" scumtell, Mykonian? I told you multiple times already, if you want to see how I act as scum, go look up my meta. I've told you multiple times why I don't want to just go off and name my scumtells.

and I tell you you do it because you are scum.

[mykonian]

Why are you defending StK, mindgamer? Is he your scumbuddy? In fact, until now, I have had only one player avoiding this question, and that player was scum, while I had some people answer it in an ongoing game. Good luck winning this argument.

and I have played with looker before, dear mindgamer. I think I have a good idea how he plays/thinks. And I see nothing surprising.

[mykonian]

Disco, what did you mean by that?

[mykonian]

Blue is theory.

So you refuse to do a meta-read on SaintKerrigan, but in the mean time you have done a meta-read on Looker?

nice catch. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from searching for how StK plays. Asking for someone's weakness = complete stupidity. Its like saying "Lex: Oh hello there superman, what is your weakness?" "superman: kryptonite, it hurts me when i touch it or near it". No person who is not mentally f*cked in the head would tell you his/her weakness, unless of course you were good friends.

!vote myko

Wait a minute. If I asked someone's weakness as town, that would be insane, and superman is clearly town. If I asked confirmed scum what his weakness was, that would be insane too.

But what if I suspect someone of being scum, and ask for his weakness as scum?

Town has no worries, he can just tell, he is not telling his weaknesses as town.
Scum has worries.

Meaning that the question is a way to deduct who is scum. The answer itself doesn't matter, it is how much that person worries about answering. And StK worried very much.

And I no longer read other games. I just have played quite often with looker, and only one game with StK. So I have quite a good idea how looker plays, and I barely know StK.

Plus that you have a very minimalistic idea of "meta". You see it as what people do when playing as a certain role. Since the way people play changes rapidly, this information is not very usefull. It is easy to get.

But if you know how a person normally thinks, if you know he is a gambler or not, if you know he loves to manipulate, and how good he is at it, if you know how concious he is of his own actions, you can predict much better how someone is going to act. This takes time before you know this, but this "meta" hardly changes over time. This is the "meta" I'm talking about.

Oh, and Looker is concious about what he is doing as scum. You won't catch him this way.

[mykonian]

How many games have you played with Looker, Mykonian? I'm looking for an exact number here.

Also, your theory on your question is flawed. You haven't run it enough times to determine that a majority of the people who refuse to answer the question are scum. Only

once

has a person refused to answer your question (before me), and that one time the person happened to be scum. But once isn't enough to set a precedence. Thus, you can't use it reliably as a scumtell.

Theory predicts, StK. You are directly moving to the practical application, skipping my theory. I assume that means I was correct there, and it

is

scummy not to avoid this question (or any question).

Of course, you could still be town, but that is the same with every tell. Nothing is absolute, and that is what you are saying here.


Further, I am not completely certain how many we played, maybe looker can name one I missed.

A newby game (although it doesn't really count, he got mislynched early, after playing quite playfully, almost role-playing like, liking the idea of the game)
A poly lovers game, as town.
then, I remember a game where I said that the above two had happened, and that I this time wouldn't try to mislynch looker, and seen that I have no good memories of that, I believe I was mislynched pretty quickly.

uhm, I probably forget 1.

And Looker has a playstyle (you can probably confirm that seen the above, and here), that gives a lot of reactions, but makes people also very suspicious of him. Meaning that Looker is often in the defensive. In this, there are similarities between mine and lookers playstyle. Maybe that makes it easier to understand where he is coming from.

[mykonian]

Myko:

Meaning that the question is a way to deduct who is scum. The answer itself doesn't matter, it is how much that person worries about answering. And StK worried very much.

Worrying can't be read over the internet like that.

Oh, and Looker is concious about what he is doing as scum. You won't catch him this way.

How do you know how conscious Looker is executing his actions? The only way to know that is by being his scumbuddy.


Yeah stuff like that.

Uhm, Disco. Read my posts.

First, worrying is expressed in the avoidance of the question. Someone who didn't worry about it, would answer without problem. Someone who worried a bit would maybe wait a post, then be convinced he should answer. Somebody who really doesn't like it, and worries about the consequenses? Doesn't answer.

And that last point plain sucks. You see how looker plays. He makes a vote without reason. Why would he do that, assuming he is a clever guy (he is)?

Because a: he know people will react on it, and based on these reactions he tries to find someone reacting weird
b: he knows the above, is concious about what he does, and is scum doing it.

Being concious about what you are doing = quite able to copy his town meta as scum.

Basically, Disco, you make your theories about who is scum or not too complicated. For example, the looker-concious- point:

What you claim would have happened: pregame looker-scum would have told what he thinks when he posts (very unlikely)
ingame, scum-myko accidentaly spills this information (also unlikely, seen that it is an accident, they don't happen very often).

This makes that the actual argument is very weak, since it is very unlikely. Please check your other points too :/ because one can hardly argue when the theories you base your votes on are this far-fetched

[mykonian]

@ Mykonian: You are incorrect. It is

not

scummy to avoid your question. You're predicting that I am scum because the person before me who refused to answer your question was scum. One time is not enough to be a reliable tell. The only other thing you have to say against me is that my defense of you is suspicious, which you admit yourself is not enough. Thus, both of your reasons for voting me are weak. I strongly urge you to reconsider your vote.

Meanwhile, Kyle's got a point about XScorp.

Unvote: Kyle99. Vote: XScorpion.

I predict it because scum is the only one who has problems with answering that question.

Why do you keep strawmanning me by hammering on that I only used it once before, in stead of arguing the theory?

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ARGUE ABOUT THAT

And I would be happy with a scorp lynch. I hate a disco-Looker-kyle lynch. I don't think any of them should happen today. Light is a neutral, mindgamer is annoying, xscorp always scum, and Danny is ???

[mykonian]

Because a: he know people will react on it, and based on these reactions he tries to find someone reacting weird
b: he knows the above, is concious about what he does, and is scum doing it.

OR
c: he talked his posting behavior and overall game strategy over with his scum buddy who accidently breadcrumbed it.


It's not far-fetched, there is no 'too strange to be true' or 'too ... to be ...'

What information do you have as town to make you choose for a theory that you admit to be unlikely (though not impossible)?

Seriously, you make no sense. I have a gut town read on you, but you act as if you have more information then you can have. And then you tunnel on it, denying all information that contradicts your current read. Please tell, why are you a towny?

[mykonian]

And StK, that is your excuse, I know. It is the only hiding place.

It is also the only thing that doesn't make it an absolute tell.

[mykonian]

And StK, that is your excuse, I know. It is the only hiding place.

It is also the only thing that doesn't make it an absolute tell.

So, you're simply going to deny all my responses as "excuses," eh? Tunneling much?

I have already admitted the tell not to be absolute. I think it counts enough against you to vote you. I show here I know its weaknesses.

But I know them of a lot of tells, and that doesn't mean I won't vote.

[mykonian]

I have never admitted or said to have 'chosen' the theory, I'm simply laying it on the table.

Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell. If you have objections to that, please point em out.

I always act like I have more information than I actually have, at least I hear so from others.

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

Bolded: WOW. What a way to backtrack. Since when do you not have responsibility for what you post?

No disco, if it is too unlikely to be true (and see my post, it is), then you don't post it, because it adds nothing. This way you just add more suspicion around me, looker, or whoever

while it shouldn't be there

.

This is one reason why I very much dislike any "scumbuddy" argument made before we lynched scum. There is often little basis (since you always have a few steps that are unlikely), but they do add suspicion from the group to that player. It doesn't help to hunt scum.

Kyle, xscorp, get here and post.

[mykonian]

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

this is what I mean. You are just trying to scare people.

why is this notable?

If one is scum, what does that make the other?
if one is town, what does that make the other?

This is no scumhunting, Disco. This is manipulating. Now, show me some scumhunting.

[mykonian]

I never denied having responsibility, nice way to twist my words.

There is never anything too unlikely to be true. NEVER. Things can be 'far-fetched' but that doesn't make it less possible.

and about your comment regarding adding suspicion around people, just wow. Just... wow.

This way you just add more suspicion around me, looker, or whoever while it shouldn't be there.

It shouldn't be there? How subjective can it get?
If I can lay it on the table, people can judge for themselves if it should be there or not, that's nothing for you to judge.
Besides, how should it not be there? It's a thought, it really happened, there's no twisting (even if there was it should be there but more as a point against me rather then a point against you), so what's the problem here? Why should it not be open as a suggestion/option?

You want to play, disco? Lets see who can post the most shit about each other... And no, it is

your explanation

not what happened.

Then you prefer to post your explanation, letting the others out (until I posted them), while it is less likely, by far. When I call you on this, you fail to take responsibility for it. You just posted it. You didn't mean anything with it. Lol. In your words: wow, just... wow.

What are you hiding?

[mykonian]

Mindgamer, I know how looker plays. I don't know how those games went.

DiscoRoboto
Also, nobody noticing me might just be because I'm playing this game correctly? I don't know, but people noticing you (because i.e. a danny wagon) is usually a bad thing.

No, no, no. You want people to notice you. A good townie is always on the lookout for scum, and you want other people to notice your finds. What could possibly be wrong with being noticed? That's how a scum thinks. Quite a big slip from you here, DiscoRoboto. Over 9000 scumpoints for you!

here, mindgamer moves from annoying to town.

Disco, first, mindgamer is right. Second, if you are town, this is wrong. This is why scum wins so much, by hiding. Town wants the whole game to be active, talking, not hiding. You prefer hiding, I see.

DiscoRoboto
Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell.

Again you're thinking with the mindset of a scum. A townie is scumhunting, posting quality content et cetera. A townie does not care how he looks like, he cares about finding scum. But you are thinking that not doing scummy things makes you look like town. Huh? Seriously, when I'm playing a game where I'm town, like this game, I'm thinking 'how can I find that darn scum!'. Not: 'Have I been scummy this game?'.

Unvote. Vote: DiscoRoboto

Serious vote. You're thinking like a scum.

and now it is a serious bandwagon:

unvote vote DiscoRoboto

[mykonian]

I have never admitted or said to have 'chosen' the theory, I'm simply laying it on the table.

Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell. If you have objections to that, please point em out.

I always act like I have more information than I actually have, at least I hear so from others.

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

Bolded, you take no responsibility.

Further, you choose to lay only that possibility

on the table

(I am sure this is Dutch, not English), while waiting for others to add the other possibilities.

[mykonian]

I'm personally not sure on wether we should actually do a circle or not, so I would like the people to speak.

Any comments on doing a circle or not? If yes, what do you think about doing a majority vote?

Why are you afraid to tell what you think here? Waiting for what the rest thinks, so you can agree? Obv hiding scum here.

I agree with individual night actions.

On my suspicions, I don't really trust Light but I'm not really going to pressure/commit to him yet.

@the comment on mindgamers scum claim, I played multiple games with him, and it's just part of his playstyle... sarcasm, I guess. but seriously, scumhunting = voting someone who claimed 2x scum?

Don't know what to think about that.

Post edited and more fencesitting bolded. this is becoming a trend.

Mykonian stop bugging Saint, it's getting us nowhere since you started it and it's the prime example of psuedo-scumhunting.

I heard light say 'you know what your role does etc' this is not true. What if you are a killing role and target the same target as the normal doctor, and nothing happens. what do you know now?

unvote

gonna retreat my vote... for now. I want to keep options open.

@Light, what exactly about Mindgamers post makes you think he's one of the townies?

Disco, why are you defending StK. Is this because you

know

him to be town? Or is he your scumbuddy?

[mykonian]

Disco, why are you only suspecting the players that are most in the attention? (looker, me)

Don't they get most attention because they take risks, because they have made 70 of the 178 in this thread, brought by far the most information into this thread?

Are you too stupid to understand, or are you just trying to get a lynch that suits you?

[mykonian]

Disco, why are you only suspecting the players that are most in the attention? (looker, me)

The fact that you guys are in the attention are irrelevant, you are looking scummy to me.

And by pure chance, these two are the largest bandwagons, and with the most scumhunting players. You make a very convincing point, Disco.

[mykonian]

Looker, we have scum here, I would like you to take a look at it.

[mykonian]

it is noted that Disco only gets really active when he is under attack...

[mykonian]

Well obviously I have to defend myself, I could also just keep hiding like Kyle/Danny/Light are doing and stroll into lategame. Besides, I have time, so why would I not take the time to defend myself? I don't think it's that bad to be active, it only increases your chance to get information out of me, right?

uhm, disco, when will you start giving information, in stead of continiously waiting for other people to do something?

[mykonian]

Apparently not now. (Hi-five's Mykonian under the table)

a: I really want to know how high your table is.
b: what are we doing under the table
c: he is sort of excused, it is quite late for him


d:

Kyle

you haven't understood a thing of what has just been posted. What a horrible post.

[mykonian]

Well obviously I have to defend myself,

I could also just keep hiding like Kyle/Danny/Light are doing and stroll into lategame.

Besides, I have time, so why would I not take the time to defend myself? I don't think it's that bad to be active, it only increases your chance to get information out of me, right?

LOL. Seriously, Disco, this is too funny. And you don't even get the joke.

But seriously, just generally pointing at the lurkers when you are under pressure? You are seriously scum looking for a way out.

[mykonian]

I love you too, looker.

I like bio's posts. Feel very towny to me.



Light focuses too much on what the bandwagons are, he should be looking who the scum is, not who can get lynched.

[mykonian]

guys, will you stop it! If you continue this way, I will get the feeling that there are more scum then town in this game.

[mykonian]

and if it is that obvious, why doesn't he vote? I can totally see a light-robot scumteam. Light, bus your buddy!

[mykonian]

I think I leave my vote where it is till the lynch. Because I love Disco's scumhunting in the above post.

[mykonian]

Oh, so now I use my vote even though I doubt it unnecessary and you make a deal out of it?

GEEEEEEZ people make up your mind.

Q: Why is not voting a scumtell?

A: because scum will have to "lie" when voting, has to fake scumhunting. Which is the same reasoning that also shows that voting without a reason is a scumtell.

Q: What is Disco doing here?

A: avoiding any risks, and is not scumhunting

B: what is Disco's role?

[mykonian]

lol @

trying to make this rolefishing.

you clearly see what I mean, and you are purely twisting my words here. Thank you for your scumclaim, scum.

Why have we never heard anything about Mindgamer from you? Is this pure OMGUS? Further, this shit is the game.

Can we lynch this guy?

[mykonian]

yeah, put it out of context, that'll help...

Q: Why is not voting a scumtell?

A: because scum will have to "lie" when voting, has to fake scumhunting. Which is the same reasoning that also shows that voting without a reason is a scumtell.

Q: What is Disco doing here?

A: avoiding any risks, and is not scumhunting

B: what is Disco's role?

Context = win.

it is a rhetorical question... And you know. Because you have read the post, seeing that first I argue why a tell works, then I argue that Disco acts in this way, with the conclusion that Disco is scum.

IF YOU THINK DISCO IS STRAWMANNING HERE, PLEASE VOTE

[mykonian]

yeah, disco is the obvious lynch for today.

[mykonian]

You do realise that because I have stated my defenses I am currently unaware of what you still consider a 'scummy' point against me.

That's why I want you to gather everything that you still consider in your judgement on me.

yeah, same for me. You only want it to say again you don't understand what a rhetorical question is. (if you did, you would have understood why I used it). So I really don't see the use to put that amount of time into the game.

I could Iso myself and quote all the posts that had Disco in it, and you would have a case, but we would also have cluttered the thread.

(so yes, this is a subtle way of saying: "JUST READ MY POSTS")

[mykonian]

Light is beginning to look more new player to me than scum player.

Unvote: Light. Vote: XScorpion.

Saying this basicly makes him clear from you the entire game, right?

'Oh he did something scummy, but he's a new player, so I forgive him.'

I personally don't like the 'newbie' excuse at all. How are you planning on acting if Light keeps being suspicious/questionable?

I would look for another counterwagon. There are way better points on you then on light.

[mykonian]

Have fun, Disco.

Because a: he know people will react on it, and based on these reactions he tries to find someone reacting weird
b: he knows the above, is concious about what he does, and is scum doing it.

OR
c: he talked his posting behavior and overall game strategy over with his scum buddy who accidently breadcrumbed it.


It's not far-fetched, there is no 'too strange to be true' or 'too ... to be ...'

What information do you have as town to make you choose for a theory that you admit to be unlikely (though not impossible)?

Seriously, you make no sense. I have a gut town read on you, but you act as if you have more information then you can have. And then you tunnel on it, denying all information that contradicts your current read. Please tell, why are you a towny?

I have never admitted or said to have 'chosen' the theory, I'm simply laying it on the table.

Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell. If you have objections to that, please point em out.

I always act like I have more information than I actually have, at least I hear so from others.

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

Bolded: WOW. What a way to backtrack. Since when do you not have responsibility for what you post?

No disco, if it is too unlikely to be true (and see my post, it is), then you don't post it, because it adds nothing. This way you just add more suspicion around me, looker, or whoever

while it shouldn't be there

.

This is one reason why I very much dislike any "scumbuddy" argument made before we lynched scum. There is often little basis (since you always have a few steps that are unlikely), but they do add suspicion from the group to that player. It doesn't help to hunt scum.

Kyle, xscorp, get here and post.

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

this is what I mean. You are just trying to scare people.

why is this notable?

If one is scum, what does that make the other?
if one is town, what does that make the other?

This is no scumhunting, Disco. This is manipulating. Now, show me some scumhunting.

Mindgamer, I know how looker plays. I don't know how those games went.

DiscoRoboto
Also, nobody noticing me might just be because I'm playing this game correctly? I don't know, but people noticing you (because i.e. a danny wagon) is usually a bad thing.

No, no, no. You want people to notice you. A good townie is always on the lookout for scum, and you want other people to notice your finds. What could possibly be wrong with being noticed? That's how a scum thinks. Quite a big slip from you here, DiscoRoboto. Over 9000 scumpoints for you!

here, mindgamer moves from annoying to town.

Disco, first, mindgamer is right. Second, if you are town, this is wrong. This is why scum wins so much, by hiding. Town wants the whole game to be active, talking, not hiding. You prefer hiding, I see.

DiscoRoboto
Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell.

Again you're thinking with the mindset of a scum. A townie is scumhunting, posting quality content et cetera. A townie does not care how he looks like, he cares about finding scum. But you are thinking that not doing scummy things makes you look like town. Huh? Seriously, when I'm playing a game where I'm town, like this game, I'm thinking 'how can I find that darn scum!'. Not: 'Have I been scummy this game?'.

Unvote. Vote: DiscoRoboto

Serious vote. You're thinking like a scum.

and now it is a serious bandwagon:

unvote vote DiscoRoboto

I have never admitted or said to have 'chosen' the theory, I'm simply laying it on the table.

Why am I towny? I don't know, because I haven't really been scummy for as far as I can tell. If you have objections to that, please point em out.

I always act like I have more information than I actually have, at least I hear so from others.

The two of you moving in a group is duly noted.

Bolded, you take no responsibility.

Further, you choose to lay only that possibility

on the table

(I am sure this is Dutch, not English), while waiting for others to add the other possibilities.

I'm personally not sure on wether we should actually do a circle or not, so I would like the people to speak.

Any comments on doing a circle or not? If yes, what do you think about doing a majority vote?

Why are you afraid to tell what you think here? Waiting for what the rest thinks, so you can agree? Obv hiding scum here.

I agree with individual night actions.

On my suspicions, I don't really trust Light but I'm not really going to pressure/commit to him yet.

@the comment on mindgamers scum claim, I played multiple games with him, and it's just part of his playstyle... sarcasm, I guess. but seriously, scumhunting = voting someone who claimed 2x scum?

Don't know what to think about that.

Post edited and more fencesitting bolded. this is becoming a trend.

Mykonian stop bugging Saint, it's getting us nowhere since you started it and it's the prime example of psuedo-scumhunting.

I heard light say 'you know what your role does etc' this is not true. What if you are a killing role and target the same target as the normal doctor, and nothing happens. what do you know now?

unvote

gonna retreat my vote... for now. I want to keep options open.

@Light, what exactly about Mindgamers post makes you think he's one of the townies?

Disco, why are you defending StK. Is this because you

know

him to be town? Or is he your scumbuddy?

Disco, why are you only suspecting the players that are most in the attention? (looker, me)

Don't they get most attention because they take risks, because they have made 70 of the 178 in this thread, brought by far the most information into this thread?

Are you too stupid to understand, or are you just trying to get a lynch that suits you?

Disco, why are you only suspecting the players that are most in the attention? (looker, me)

The fact that you guys are in the attention are irrelevant, you are looking scummy to me.

And by pure chance, these two are the largest bandwagons, and with the most scumhunting players. You make a very convincing point, Disco.

Well obviously I have to defend myself, I could also just keep hiding like Kyle/Danny/Light are doing and stroll into lategame. Besides, I have time, so why would I not take the time to defend myself? I don't think it's that bad to be active, it only increases your chance to get information out of me, right?

uhm, disco, when will you start giving information, in stead of continiously waiting for other people to do something?

Well obviously I have to defend myself,

I could also just keep hiding like Kyle/Danny/Light are doing and stroll into lategame.

Besides, I have time, so why would I not take the time to defend myself? I don't think it's that bad to be active, it only increases your chance to get information out of me, right?

LOL. Seriously, Disco, this is too funny. And you don't even get the joke.

But seriously, just generally pointing at the lurkers when you are under pressure? You are seriously scum looking for a way out.

Oh, so now I use my vote even though I doubt it unnecessary and you make a deal out of it?

GEEEEEEZ people make up your mind.

Q: Why is not voting a scumtell?

A: because scum will have to "lie" when voting, has to fake scumhunting. Which is the same reasoning that also shows that voting without a reason is a scumtell.

Q: What is Disco doing here?

A: avoiding any risks, and is not scumhunting

B: what is Disco's role?

lol @

trying to make this rolefishing.

you clearly see what I mean, and you are purely twisting my words here. Thank you for your scumclaim, scum.

Why have we never heard anything about Mindgamer from you? Is this pure OMGUS? Further, this shit is the game.

Can we lynch this guy?

yeah, put it out of context, that'll help...

Q: Why is not voting a scumtell?

A: because scum will have to "lie" when voting, has to fake scumhunting. Which is the same reasoning that also shows that voting without a reason is a scumtell.

Q: What is Disco doing here?

A: avoiding any risks, and is not scumhunting

B: what is Disco's role?

Context = win.

it is a rhetorical question... And you know. Because you have read the post, seeing that first I argue why a tell works, then I argue that Disco acts in this way, with the conclusion that Disco is scum.

IF YOU THINK DISCO IS STRAWMANNING HERE, PLEASE VOTE

[mykonian]

First you say you don't vote often, or only when you think someone scummy, then you come with some nice piece of theory discussion where you promote voting, and for information.

means you don't mean a thing of one, and you are posting theory because you like to, or you used the first as an excuse not to vote.

[mykonian]

guys, townies don't bandwagon. Which means at least one is doing it wrong.

[mykonian]

I have no idea why so many people are saying: "weeeeell, I don't know, but I think looker and myko a bit scummy because everybody thought so in the start, aaand I don't like Disco too because there have been quite a lot of posts about him and that mindguy didn't like him too. But I don't vote yet, because, well, I'm not too certain everybody would like my vote. And seen that the ones that stand out are immediately voted, I better wait for better times"

Which means that on this moment, Kyle, Disco, Xscorpion and Light all behave as scum, looking only at the leading suspects, but afraid to take a real stance. Further, I have the feeling this is mostly because of incapability in stead of scumminess, so I'm not even sure both scum are here.

[mykonian]

What is FoS?
@xscorpion why do you think kyle99 suspected you as one of the scum?
who are your current suspects?
What is your view on disco and stk?

2. Kyle99 suspected me as scum because I've been lurking like crazy and been too busy to scumhunt.
3.

Currently looker is #1, followed by Mykonian, although after I began to write this post, Disco is probably going to replace Mykonian.

4. On Disco:

Although he behaves townish, I dislike how he hasn't voted, which is scummy to me (although probably not to most people.

On StK: Almost certainly town. Post 269 brings up a VERY good point. I don't like how Disco has one way that he plans on playing (only voting when he is sure), and a completely different way for how he wants others to play (vote for pressure).
1. FoS = Finger of suspicion, it's what people use to suggest that they believe people may be scum without voting for them. For example,

FoS: Disco

because only a scum should expect the rest of town to play differently than himself.

Disco's has been commented on a lot by me, don't feel like picking out one post that shows it.

what? my responce to disco's bandwagon?

its now pretty obvious that disco is scum (well 70% sure),

but why is there votes on xscorpion? is he more likely to be a scum than disco?

stk, so you would rather me stay on no vote for the rest of this day? is it bad that i join a bandwagon? i want an explanation on kyle as to why xscorpion lynch is better than a disco lynch. i don't do serious votes until i am absolutely sure that this is right. its up to kyle to tell me if its worth even lynching scorpion in the first place.

and no vote.

Alright, looked over Disco, Light, XScorpion, and Mykonian, and here's my thoughts.

Disco could be scum

, but probably not. His vote on Light is certantly justified (more on that later), and I really doubt he's scum.

I looked again at XScorpion, and he could very well be scum.

He's dodging questions, lurking, and not really voicing any opinion. However, I've played with town-XScorpion a couple times, and this playstyle certaintly matches his meta.

I keep going back and forth on Mykonian

, he will make a post that seems scummy as hell, and then post and appear town. I really would like to see one flip before lynching Mykonian.

I think Light is the person to lynch today. His "i don't do serious votes until i am absolutely sure that this is right" is completely dumb. If no one voted until they were absolutely sure they were right, nobody would bother playing mafia.

I have cut the post.

Oh, that are all already. In the last 3 pages. It happened before then also, seen the way the wagons on both looker and me formed. No new stances, just going with the flow, and a lot wishy washiness.

[mykonian]

Well XScorp, see it as a compliment

Could you add anything to the conversation?

Yes, I could add that I'm actually not as intelligent as I pretend to be and some people are right to call me out on it.

I'd normally join the Mykonian train but

I'm still really suspicious about Looker's actions towards Danny.

Don't test me.

But I have to admit, you have been less wishywashy then the others.

Why were you again suspicious of Disco, except that there has been a lot of talking about him?

[mykonian]

My 12th post

lthough he behaves townish

,

I dislike how he hasn't voted, which is scummy to me

(although probably not to most people.

ok. Thank you. Lets do it again.

yes

but, no

oh, and you probably think it isn't no anyway.

[mykonian]

The way he has used his vote (as in, not very wisely) is my main reason for being suspicious of him, and although he has placed a vote on someone, his vote isn't having a major impact. So yes, Disco has changed, but my opinion of him has not.

I'd say if not for me drawing votes away then Disco would probably be lynched already because he plays so defensively.

Why wouldn't we want to lynch him? what makes you towny for stopping a lynch.

because it is on a towny?

How do you know?

[mykonian]

yeah, ok, overreactive me, sorry.

[mykonian]

Ten days is a lot. Nothing to be hasty about. I fully support rereads though.

I was reading Bio Hazard in ISO and I saw I missed something:

Again you're thinking with the mindset of a scum. A townie is scumhunting, posting quality content et cetera. A townie does not care how he looks like, he cares about finding scum. But you are thinking that not doing scummy things makes you look like town. Huh? Seriously, when I'm playing a game where I'm town, like this game, I'm thinking 'how can I find that darn scum!'. Not: 'Have I been scummy this game?'.

This would be valid if that's ALL disco had been doing this game. He was just defending himself against looker's crappy argument.

Nope, one good flaw is enough for me. It wouldn't matter if DiscoRoboto would have been the most towny person ever in the rest of this game, a flaw is a flaw and I will call you scum for it.

and I have to say that Disco said it in different ways, multiple times, and plays following this strategy. And even claims it to be the best way of playing...

[mykonian]

'Have I been scummy this game' IS A PART OF THE GAME. The moment you get a Town role PM you normally don't want to be lynched as

that is negative for the town.

so very many scummy targets xscorp? Me, you, light all have 3 votes, so who else? Besides, there is nothing concrete on either one of us (in my opinion) and

I

'd rather go for a solid lynch.

1. town has to catch scum to win.
2. lynching anybody just to save yourself = scum.
3. lynching a lurker is seen to be random (as the roles were given randomly, and people lurk anyway).

So in stead of screaming "IDONTWANTTOGETLYNCHED", which is true for town and scum, but only for scum it is the only thing they have to care about, would you please do the thing you have to do as town: search scum?

[mykonian]

You can catch scum and not look scummy at the same time.

it's a shame you aren't doing it. You bandwagon and you want to lynch a lurker. While kyle always lurks (no excuse, but that makes it a random lynch)

[mykonian]

I also find it ironic that Mykonian points out me, Light and StK for "wishywashy" behaviour, but not you. What's the deal with that?

Because Looker takes too many stances. He takes risks. But does so no matter what his role is.

You aren't taking risks. And scum is perfectly happy doing that, so I believe one or two townies playing that way make a perfect hiding place for scum.

Looker is only a target for scum, which is the other side of the spectrum.

[mykonian]

since when is there a case on me?

and this means: I am going to be consistent, but hop onto light when I'm close to a lynch myself?

[mykonian]

The circle is WIFOM. Town would have done it because he/she believed it to be correct. Scum would have risked, and above that tried to manipulate. It is an insane argument.

So basically, lynching me won't happen.

And mislynching is quite bad too, you know

Further, you are still doing no scumhunting, but you are playing a "I don't want to die" tactic. On this moment there are 8 players that don't want to die. If they voted you, they would at least have avoided the lynch. Why aren't they just lynching you to keep themselves save?

[mykonian]

I have the largest example of this game, I think. Lets not quote it, ok?

Why do the other players not lynch you to keep themselves save?

[mykonian]

Because they have no case against me? The objective is still lynching scum

you have no case against me, kyle or light. Why do others have to scumhunt, while you are playing to save yourself?

[mykonian]

will you for once answer the question! you have avoided it multiple times by now.

why is it okay for you to focus on defending yourself and lynching anybody else, while others have to scumhunt?

Vote Count #14

Light (2) - DiscoRoboto, kyle99
DiscoRoboto (2) - Mindgamer, mykonian
XScorpion (1) - Bio Hazard
Looker (1) - XScorpion
Mindgamer (1) - Looker
Bio Hazard (1) - SaintKerrigan

Not Voting (1) - Light

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[mykonian]

why is it okay for you to focus on defending yourself and lynching anybody else, while others have to scumhunt?

Others are scumhunting on me. I can't really scumhunt myself now can I? I can't really find alotta scummy remarks/questionable things around here atm, most are questions aimed at specific persons based on interactions between the two.

seriously. You can't scumhunt because others are finding things on you, and because of that there is little material?

You really don't get it do you. What mafia is about. It is about

generating

info. That is scumhunting. Not waiting for things to happen and acting only to keep yourself from getting lynched.

[mykonian]

why is it okay for you to focus on defending yourself and lynching anybody else, while others have to scumhunt?

Others are scumhunting on me. I can't really scumhunt myself now can I? I can't really find alotta scummy remarks/questionable things around here atm, most are questions aimed at specific persons based on interactions between the two.

seriously. You can't scumhunt because others are finding things on you, and because of that there is little material?

You really don't get it do you. What mafia is about. It is about

generating

info. That is scumhunting. Not waiting for things to happen and acting only to keep yourself from getting lynched.

There's enough to get from your reactions.

Why am I seeing no results?

because you aren't doing anything

[mykonian]

Remember that StK had a gut town read on me (like most people) before I got put into the center of attention, I think he's still clinging on to that.

I think somebody is a little eager to defend.

[mykonian]

I'm not voting Disco right now because there's more people to look at than just him. I've also had a town read on him for most of this game (that's slowly starting to come apart) and generally I don't vote my town reads. You'll notice that I haven't voted for you or Mykonian, either. Does that mean I'm scum with you or Myko? No.

You have FoS'ed him twice. Non of these reasons disappeared. And out of nothing you vote Bio. For tbh, no real reason. Sooooo why aren't you voting for a well reasoned case that you obviously can see, seen the FoS's?

[mykonian]

yeah...

Buuuut wouldn't scumhunting be much more effective if we had the information of a (good) first lynch? You are "scumhunting", which is quite ineffective tbh, and that same time could be used to get a constructive lynch on Disco. With that lynch, we would have a good chance of finding scum, we would have more information to work on later and 1 vote on bio isn't doing anything anyway. Further, I don't see bio getting as scummy as disco before the end of the day.

Can we get some action in this game? Arg, forgot about Phaen. ok, after he has reread etc?

[mykonian]

Why are you so gung-ho on having me vote Disco right this instant, Myko? There's time before the day ends.

Because I'm either going to lurk through the day's towards the deadline, or I'm going to fill the thread with more nonsense towards the deadline. Either way, other players will have more problems with the game because the game starts to become a mess with enough players already confirming that Disco is scummy, but doing nothing because the deadline isn't yet here.

So yeah, there is time before the day ends. And we are going to try to use that time to kill the game. To attack someone who is quite clearly town (bio) because we pretend to be scumhunting.

Or you can say it another way: I'm getting bored.

And for the people who are now going to say: LONGER DAYS = MORE INFORMATION, I would like to see information from you. Otherwise you are just talking about something you have heard, but you have no idea if it is true or not.

Now, phena, where is your catchup post?

[mykonian]

I like your defense!

more scumhunting please.

[mykonian]

Kinda waiting for Phaen to answer my questions.

Meanwhile, why don't you tell me who is scum right now and who is not? What do you think about Phaen? What do you think about lynching lurkers? What's your thought about Mindgamer hitandrun thing he's been running?
Great idea, others can also answer these questions! yeey, information.

I have shown no interest in Phaen's play, and I think mindgamer to be town. I think lynching lurkers is worse then replacing them, and the worst lurker is an active lurker. Hello disco!

Your "case" on mindgamer is more omgus then anything else. You are making it up. Get lynched, please.

[mykonian]

I have no case on mindgamer, and never claimed to have one. Stop twisting words, plz.

Even better! you just say things and they have no value...

what was that word... responsibility?

But then I'll take it you have totally no problems with Mindgamer?

[mykonian]

good, because I'm too. Was this the boy who told us we didn't know how to play?

[mykonian]

Why would I comment on the Danny wagon when everything was already said? It's just a stupid thing to do, do you really need to hear that?

Also, nobody noticing me might just be because I'm playing this game correctly? I don't know, but people noticing you (because i.e. a danny wagon) is usually a bad thing.

hehe.

[mykonian]

ok, guys, where is the information you promised me in stead of lynching Disco, like we should? We are just waiting for the deadline and are letting scum kill the game. Great, isn't it?

[mykonian]

hehehe. I was on one succesful lynch, and had a 50% accuracy in my scumreads in this game.

I should stop now, it'll never get better!


@Disco. Sorry. Till the moment where looker highfived me I was just posting as much stuff against you as possible. At that point I started to believe in it. Mindgamer really caught you though, that was not that well played.

[mykonian]

I would give everything for such percentages. I haven't been scum for ages...