Open 203: C/9 Mafia Wins!

[Gheb]

vote scott

[Gheb]

FoS Gayle

Don't like how you encourage people to get back into the RVS when serious attempts to get us out are being made.

@Wdjat

Only players I played with before are Gayle and JacobSavage (in an ongoing game). I assume you're asking for metagame purposes? Do you expect to find any connections? Do you think not answering the question is noteworthy?

Can't see this being too useful though. I think it's better to look at the early wagon and people's reactions on it - I have my own opinion on it but I'd like to hear other people's opinion first to see whose opinions maches my own.

[Gheb]

You shouldn't need to make serious attempts to get out of RVS.

In the same hand you shouldn't need to discourage it either.

[Gheb]

Do people enjoy answering questions not pointed at them? 1fifi, just because a question

about

you has been asked doesn't mean you should answer it before the asked player did. There might be a reason as to why Max asked me in particular. At the very least you could've waited for my response.

Gheb: The1fifi has made an error already, would you consider this to be a scumtell?

Only if he continues to make such errors. By itself it's too little to base a wagon on but it's still something worthwhile to talk about and something to keep in mind for later.

This sounds really weak to me. I can't believe that this post has you actually worried.

Can't see what's wrong with it. It's not like Gayle was just voting randomly but he explicitly said "Fuck serious, more RVS". That might've been a joke but I think people should be held to what they said / did in the RVS. You can't just brush everything off as a "joke" when it happens to be convenient.

Unvote Vote Kyle

One thing I'm looking for scum to do is to bully "morons". That's the easy way for scum to look pro-town without actually hunting scum. You want to lynch scum not "morons".

[Gheb]

Yeah, the post that reeks scum to me right now is post 7.

Elaborate

@Wdjat

"Worried" isn't exactly the word for it. No, I'm not actually "worried" about it but it bothers me still. To me a FoS means more like "hey, people should keep that in mind for later" than "hey that's flat-out scummy". If Gayle continues to be suspicious I will be able to refer back to that point which can be helpful later on. All by itself I don't consider it a scumtell yet either.

[Gheb]

Prods?

[Gheb]

Unvote Vote Jacob Savage

Pressure vote.

[Gheb]

What reaction do I expect from a pressure vote? How about a player actually starting to post? Big surprise, huh?

Wdjat's request for further elaboration are totally legitimate imo. Taking a wishy-washy stance by posting extremely vague stuff is noteworthy, especially if said player refuses to elaborate. I think 108 is a good response. If you claim that me pressure voting somebody is scummy you

should

elaborate.

Also, I'm totally down for a dana train!

Unvote vote Dana

[Gheb]

Don't think it's smart to lynch one of the more vocal / helpful players - yeah, I consider Wdjat pretty helpful at this point. Would rather get rid of blatantly unhelpful people.

Only problem with that imo is that many ppl have been fairly unhelpful. I don't remember decent input from a lot of people and I think it wouldn't be the worst idea to pressure people relucant to give info.

Can also deal with a Lowell wagon for feigning activity though I think other ppl are guilty of this themselves.

[Gheb]

Unvote Vote Kunkstar

for pseudo-scumhunting in 219. Too convenient a way to hop the Lowell wagon.

[Gheb]

I'm here too, already on the kunk wagon, so hop it!

[Gheb]

Votecount is wrong. I'm voting kunk right now and I'm fairly happy with that. Dana's OMGUS vote from 156 is duly noted.

FoS

for that.

[Gheb]

It's still OMGUS on your part.

[Gheb]

It was OMGUS because you literally said "his pressure against you is ridiculous" and vote him right afterward. That's textbook OMGUS.

[Gheb]

Kunkstar, Kyle and Dana are my prefered lynches for toDay though I'd like to hear a lot more from inactives. I don't think I can remember anything from gameplayah.

[Gheb]

Can you buddy him a little less obvious, please?

[Gheb]

Uhm, did you earnestly just put Lowell at L-1, dana? I mean it's OK if you think he's scum but that's a bit drastic. Deadline's only on Saturday - no need to rush things.

Vote Count-Sho
Lowell-Hewitt, kunkstar7, kyle99, danakillsu
Jacob Savage-danakillsu
danakillsu-Lowell, wdjat
Kunkstar-Gayle, Gheb
Wdjat-Tatetothetot, the1fifi
Kyle99-Max

[Gheb]

Just wanted to point out the fact that he's L-1. Votecounts are easy to miss in this game and votes've been pounded on him one after another. Somebody might've actually dropped the hammah.

[Gheb]

Unvote Vote Kyle

[Gheb]

I explained my suspicions on Kyle long ago. And what's wrong with a wagon anyways.

[Gheb]

You don't say anything about his behavior in this game, or how he hasn't done anything to change your mind. Rather you say that Lowell should be lynched because of his behavior in past games.

And your last post isn't any better. It is still advocating a policy lynch based on meta. You are still saying that your main reason for wanting to lynch Lowell is because of his behavior in past games.

It's not advocating a policy lynch based on meta, I believe he's the weakest player in this game and I know from past experiences that he doesn't change after D1. So after the showing he's made this game, cracking under pressure, I know that he's going to continue being a weak player. And again, based on this game, he's not somebody I'd want to travel far in the game unless he is in fact a cop.

FoS Hewitt

This logic is exactly what made me extremely suspicious of Kyle and has me consider him a good lynch candidate. Pushing a lynch on player X because he's "weak" is a very easyploy for scum to play. It's doesn't require you to actually take a stance and you can sweep it under the rug in case of a mislynch. Win/Win to play from a scum POV

[Gheb]

@Dana

All those "ifs" you use in these hypothetical situations are what makes it WIFOM. It's not necessarily a bad thing. In this case at least it isn't imo.

[Gheb]

And by using the word "if" you introduce exactly such a situation.

[Gheb]

Deadline's today but my vote's OK where it is. Also down for lynching inactives if there's no replacement.

[Gheb]

Well threatening that "because this is what made me suspicious of Kyle, you better watch your back" isn't exactly going to make me change my mind on why I wouldn't want Lowell to travel far in the game.

To me, getting rid of players like that on D1 is win/win for me, because I know that there's no chance scum would night kill him later

(especially if he is scum...obviously).

It's win / win for you if you're scum. If you're town it's still a (statistically) likely mislynch and you get no information if people follow you because the lynch is not based on suspicions. That's not win / win for town.

I admit that it's not the worst idea I ever heard but it's rather something to consider if we're close to a deadline and we have no viable lynch candidate.

[Gheb]

No, I didn't ignore it, hewitt. Which is why I don't vote you or push for your lynch.
Kyle on the other hand literally said like 2 days into the game that we should just lynch Max. The logic is the same - but the circumstances are not.

[Gheb]

Yeah, it's actually the same logic if you think about it.

[Gheb]

Then you're not thinking straight. Look at the implications of either post - both lead to the same conclusion.

[Gheb]

I think we should just lynch Kyle -_-

[Gheb]

He's L-1.

[Gheb]

I'm not only on the Kyle wagon because of his inactivity - I explained it before.

[Gheb]

@Wdjat

The next best lynch target for me would be kunkstar. He has been playing overly comformistic all game - he followed people on bandwagons (especially the easy ones against kyle and lowell), never actually took a stance himself, posted lots of wishy-wash and feigned activity more than just once. I can easily see him being timid scum trying to stay under the radar.

[Gheb]

This is a long twilight.

We might wanna take our time to discuss what to do toMorrow after the flip? My biggest suspect after Kyle is still Kunkstart and I wouldn't mind a little wagon on him to force him to take a stance for once.

[Gheb]

Didn't see D2 already started will post something later today.

[Gheb]

Hey kunk who do you think is scum? Part of the reason why you're on the top of my scumlist is because you hopped only very easy wagons on D1 and you never seemed to have genuine opinions on whom's scum. Care to share something with us for a change?

[Gheb]

If I'm cop I investigated kunkstar.

[Gheb]

Also, I don't like this "If I am a cop I investigated X" plan. It potentially outs non-cops to the scum.

How?

[Gheb]

Scratch that question. Just realized that we're better off if scum doesn't now.

[Gheb]

Kunk, I asked you a question.

[Gheb]

Gayle, I agree with you that Kunk is scummy (need to look at Jacob harder) but I don't think the fact they argued similarly on the Kyle lynch makes them scummbuddies.

While it's WIFOM I simply can't believe that scum would follow each other around like that.

[Gheb]

Who cares? It's not like anybody except like 3 people are actually playing -_-

[Gheb]

He's L-2 now.

@mod

Do you modkill players? If so how do you handle them? Does modkilling a townie end a day or not? Does modkilling a scumbag end the day or not?

[Gheb]

Hope this bring some new life into this game. Suggest unvoting to give replacement time to read.

Vote Kunkstar

[Gheb]

*cough*

[Gheb]

unvote

how many cop claims do we already have?

[Gheb]

Wdjat, who's the play?

[Gheb]

No, I'm asking a player who's been pretty vocal and helpful on D1 on what he thinks who the play is.

[Gheb]

The hell are you talking about? I asked him who he thinks the play is not who I should lynch.

[Gheb]

The hell are you talking about? I asked him

who he thinks

the play is not who I should lynch.

Reemphasizing for Azelf

[Gheb]

w/e

[Gheb]

I don't think a scumbag would play that awully in such an obvious manner. I know it's WIFOM but it's a huge reason why I think dana's town. If he's scum it'll flush out sooner or later anyway I think.

[Gheb]

Explain, please. If you're waiting for obvious scumtells, you have plenty.

That's what irks me so much. I can't see a scumbag playing that awfully...

[Gheb]

Yeah I agree that town is better off with dana dead. When deadline comes around and there's no other play I guess I'm down.

[Gheb]

People on the dana wagon look a lot more credible than people one the Jacob wagon...

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Gheb]

When the hell have I been lurking? I've been pretty voca about my suspects all game.

[Gheb]

I already explained my reasoning for being agains JS lynch. I don't think the people on his wagon have been playing pro-town. By now I've played some games with Jacob and I know that he plays like that as town.

[Gheb]

Wdjat are you even playing this game anymore?

unvote vote lobstermania

[Gheb]

Was that hammer?

[Gheb]

We should totally modkill the mod.

[Gheb]

Curious to hear reports as well.

[Gheb]

Well I think that Wdjat has been inactive for so long that there simply might've been no NK at all if him and some other inactive player is mafia.

Though metagaming like that can work out pretty badly for town.

[Gheb]

Well I think that Wdjat has been inactive for so long that there simply might've been no NK at all if him and some other inactive player is mafia.

Though metagaming like that can work out pretty badly for town.

[Gheb]

I don't see the benefit for a townie to not reveal results either.

But then again I also fail to see why scum would do it.

[Gheb]

I guess waiting to reveal results can be considered stalling. Especially at this point of the game...

[Gheb]

I think massclaim at this point would be a horrible idea

[Gheb]

Vote Wdjat

[Gheb]

No it's not we lynch inactives first.

[Gheb]

We've been trying to do that like two weeks ago already. I even question the mods activity at this point. Might as well endgame here.

[Gheb]

Option 3 is garbage. That's way too much WIFOM and too risky for scum to play. Option 2 is the only one that's somewhat realistic.

[Gheb]

Which explains why we still don't have a votecount on this page even though it's at least 8 days -____-

[Gheb]

But I'm not lurking. Before this game stagnated I've been all vocal about my prefered lynches.

[Gheb]

Do you want to keep him around?

My main suspect is still kunkstar jfyi

[Gheb]

Convince you of what?

[Gheb]

I've been pretty vocal on Kunkstar all game. I've been acusing him of many stuff but mainly fence-sitting and sheeping which I still hold him responsible for. Wdjat? As you admitted yourself we don't want to keep him around.

As for Lowell I've never been against his lynch. At least I'm not now.

[Gheb]

I don't approve of the early hammer. We still had time until 8th June and lots of people haven't talked a lot toDay =/
At least after farside took over

[Gheb]

Sorry been out all weekend. Not getting the case on me.

Being fine with somebody's lynch =/= OK with somebody being lynched here and now. It's not a contradiction. Stop pseudo-hunting.

[Gheb]

It's kind of hard to "prod a game along" when half of the people aren't just lurking but flat out inactive. And if I like push for a lynch against these people I'm suddenly suspect like me trying to get Wdjat lynched. It's lose / lose for me no matter what I do.

[Gheb]

Azelf, I have no idea what you try to say. I said "I'm OK if he's lynched". That's something way different than "OK let's lynch him now".

Seriously, it's not THAT hard to understand

[Gheb]

Why should it be the same thing Azelf? If I say I'm OK with X being lynched then I say that it's OK if he's lynched on this particular day (in game day) but not right now.

I mean if you want to misconstrue it to make me look like scum then go ahead.

[Gheb]

OK I let you keep tunneling your retarded idea.

[Gheb]

lylo

[Gheb]

Game over =/