Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[PatriotsDynasty09]

/confirm

[PatriotsDynasty09]

On this site I've played 1 F11 setup.
I play on another site where I play more advanced games and on that site I have played 6 games and I am currently playing one.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

vote Kyiv

http://www.random.org/

this website said 8

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Patriots, you claim that your vote was the result of a completely, objectively random proces. If you are speaking the truth, your vote does not actually help the town win this game. If you truly determined your vote completely randomly, it contains no information whatsoever, and therefore does not help with starting discussion.

@Michel:
Do you agree that many games start out with a RVS (Random Voting Stage)?

At this point in the game RV's are there to get people to talk or try to get scum to slip up. It can actually greatly help the town because you never know if Kyiv or whoever gets voted gets really defensive over a random vote. To me that's a scum slip and can help the town win.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

So you feel that a random vote based on the fact that it was the person posting above you is better than voting someone because they were, as you believe, "lurking". Assume for this situation that the lurking is a viable reason. In a situation where someone is truly lurking, they are harming the town by not posting, searching for information and scumtells, or trying to hide from suspicion. So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

But walrus wasn't lurking. It was New Years yesterday and some people can't get on then.

Michel pretty much summed it all up so I don't wanna repeat anything but walrus was just inactive he was not lurking.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I know walrus wasn't lurking. But Magic Trainer stated that he felt like he was. So if he believed that he was lurking, regardless if in actuality walrus was not, isn't that a better vote than a random vote?

I'll let Magic answer that one. Sorry for interrupting.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Or option 3: He read it, but doesn't want to reply to them because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself. I've personally never thought lurking as scummy (just hindering the town), but a reply defending himself would be lovely.

I think lurking is scummy because let's just say player A is scum and 3 or 4 people are going back and forth accusing each other in a game like this. In order to keep the arguing going and so player A doesn't draw suspicion he will stay back which is lurking.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Or option 3: He read it, but doesn't want to reply to them because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself. I've personally never thought lurking as scummy (just hindering the town), but a reply defending himself would be lovely.

I think lurking is scummy because let's just say player A is scum and 3 or 4 people are going back and forth accusing each other in a game like this. In order to keep the arguing going and so player A doesn't draw suspicion he will stay back which is lurking.

That's very true, but I think the fact that a townie could just be trying to avoid being in the spotlight because he's too afraid makes lurking a bit of an unreliable scumtell. I'm not defending Medix though, since I think that my scenario might not be the case for him, and I want to hear what he has to say.

A townie should not be afraid of getting lynched for the good of the town

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Or option 3: He read it, but doesn't want to reply to them because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself. I've personally never thought lurking as scummy (just hindering the town), but a reply defending himself would be lovely.

I think lurking is scummy because let's just say player A is scum and 3 or 4 people are going back and forth accusing each other in a game like this. In order to keep the arguing going and so player A doesn't draw suspicion he will stay back which is lurking.

That's very true, but I think the fact that a townie could just be trying to avoid being in the spotlight because he's too afraid makes lurking a bit of an unreliable scumtell. I'm not defending Medix though, since I think that my scenario might not be the case for him, and I want to hear what he has to say.

A townie should not be afraid of getting lynched for the good of the town

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I basically have the same thoughts as everyone else does on Medix, and Kyiv is fine with me too.

Um, what do you think about me? Looks like some person here has a bad feeling about me.

I know this was directed at Lastsurvivor but I think the thing that's wrong about you is that you are not scumhunting at all. Right now you are just coming in whenever someone mentions your name. As town you

need

to be scumhunting in order to help the town win. Therefore you are lurking which I find as a scumtell.

FOS: Medix

Need to see more content from you.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

You do realize that we have seventeen days until the deadline right? We don't need to lynch Medix yet. We can still get a lot more out of D1.

I understand that, its just that if someone who is already called out for lurking can't come up with a defense in a day and a half, that person deserves to be lynched because even if they are not scum they are not helping the town in any way.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

Was your vote on Medix going to be final? If so, why did you want D1 to end so early?

If he gave NO defense at all then yes,
If he gives a little/average defense then I would question him a little before making my decision

By putting him to L-1 I am not ending D1. I know that random scum or newb could come in and lynch him, but I think of my vote as a little added pressure rather than the vote that "ended D1".

[PatriotsDynasty09]

L-1 is a good technique to put pressure on a

likely

suspect imo. In cases where the entire basis for voting someone is absurd (such as a random vote bandwagon) L-1 is not good.

I think Medix is only at L-2 right now.

He is only at L-2 correct, I only FOS'ed him. But we are not

bandwagoning

him, he has been lurking and nonresponsive the whole game.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments.

Besides even getting to day 2, "waiting to day 2" suggests that you will use the NK as a basis of your arguments. Is this correct?

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I've been prodded sorry, but nothing has really happened besides Medix actually posting something with content in it. I have to go to school but when I get back I'll try to post some more.

@pablito
I didn't even notice that, lol

[PatriotsDynasty09]

From rereading my post where I voted Medix, I think I'm leaning more towards because of lack of content. He has been very weak and basically if he isn't scum then he is not helping the town at all right now, providing the scum with an easy lynch target.

Well, you should really only be voting him because you think he's scum. I'm assuming you think that, right?

This is not always the case. If we leave Medix in this game, do you think that scum will NK him? I don't think so. If a townie is not active they are HELPING the scum and if we don't lynch him and he is still inactive then we will lose this game.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I'm still annoyed at Medix for consistently disappearing and avoiding questions. I believe that if he isn't scum, he can still provide good info from his flip. For now, he is my best choice for a lynch.

I think we are all agreed that Medix is the best choice because he has "given up" but I still think we should talk for 4-7 days more just to get as much info as we can (even though no one is really saying anything). Almightybob said he'll have some stuff tomorrow, but right now I think we need a roleclaim from Medix. You never know if he's the doctor/cop, and his "giving up" style of play will really hurt us if he is one of those roles.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Also, almightybob and PatriotsDynasty09, are you guys still sticking to your votes towards Magic Trainer and Kyiv respectively, and why?

My vote on Kyiv was random as stated but right now I have no reason to unvote so it will stay where it is.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Secondly, there's Patriots

Destiny

Dynasty, who has been eerily quiet this entire game. Most of his posts deal with game theory, and are even very short about that. Once a real bandwagon got started, he expressed that he would be more than happy to hop on, but has yet to do so. He is clearly shown rushing the town and Medix here. Although he wasn't trying to end the day, he was threatening with a self-imposed deadline, which I find very scummy. Once he was called out on it though, he backpedals (also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

Me "saying" that I was going to vote was trying to add pressure on Medix. But you are right in the fact that RM beat me to it. Are we ready to end the day yet? If so I will put the lynch on Medix and end the day.

But I don't get how you say I am "rushing" Medix and "the town". All I was going to do was to put Medix at L-1, which goes back to the pressure thing. Right now he is giving NO defense and the only reason I am keeping my vote off of him is to let town discussion continue.

And how are deadlines scummy? Its one thing if I say "you have 2 minutes to give a response or I will find you scummy" and what I did which was "Medix, you have been giving no defense and I'm sick of it, I will give you another day but if you do not give a defense I will place my vote on you"

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I'm okay with lynching the following people: Flareonage, Kunk, PD. Especially the latter two.

Sorry, but its hard for me to defend myself when you don't even post a reason why you want to lynch me.

But before I start the bulk of my post I would just like to ask if we should take into account of how Medix played or how Magic Trainer played when we are voting for either Gayle or Flareonage?

So voting him for not making attempts to start discussion would be bad, but voting him for not making attempts to start discussion while trying to prompt it from others is good?

QFT

@Michel: Even though Medix has gotten replaced I still find Gayle scum until he can prove to me that he is not scum. Just because someone replaces into a game doesn't mean they get a clean slate.

And you asked me who I thought was Medix's partner if he was scum. I would have to say you and Kunk in that order. Michel, I know that "policy lynches" have a high chance of a mislynch but in post 157 you said that you would be willing to vote Medix if he doesn't give an opinion on the matter. Maybe you're trying to protect your partner from getting lynched...

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Well, I think Kunk and PD are scumbuddies. They rarely acknowledge each others existance, and certainly never question each other.

Just in case you missed it, I said that Kunk is third on my list of scum

Gayle
Michel

Kunk

And inb4 "now he just trying to distance himself away from his partner"

[PatriotsDynasty09]

And you asked me who I thought was Medix's partner if he was scum. I would have to say you and Kunk in that order. Michel, I know that "policy lynches" have a high chance of a mislynch but in post 157 you said that you would be willing to vote Medix if he doesn't give an opinion on the matter. Maybe you're trying to protect your partner from getting lynched...

I am a little pressed for time right now but I wanted to post this to show you guys where I created my order of who I think is scum.

I'll post something later on today

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Also, you still have your random vote on Kyiv, but yet you say that you are suspicious of Gayle, Michel and Kunk? Why are you keeping that random vote, if you are more suspicious of others?

At this point my vote is not necessary on Kyiv anymore so I will

Unvote

I will show you my vote at the end of this post.

Now, I can understand LS's FOS and Gayle's vote. They provided something to explain their suspicion. You are just going with the flow without providing any backing or input of your own. That I don't like.

@Random- I didn't answer your other question because I am going to answer it here.

Kunk, I did not say my reason that I have suspicion on you because its only suspicion. Right now I only have a gut feeling that you could be scum. When you use my words against me I don't think that that's valid because Gayle voted me and didn't give me any reasons why but I only had suspicion against you.

Alrite this will really hurt the chance of victory for we the town, but I have to roleclaim because I want to give time for everyone to rethink their votes so we are not forced into a "no lynch"

My roleclaim is that

I AM THE COP

.

Now for my vote: I am going to

Vote almightybob

These quotes really bug me:

Rereading PD just now, but off the top of my head I can't say he's struck me as hugely Town so I'll probably be OK with his lynch today.

I'm still going back looking for more scum, but I would much rather lynch PD than nobody.

He is saying that he doesn't find me scummy but he okay with my lynch. This is blatantly going with the flow, which scum can easily do without bringing too much attention to themselves.

Now knowing that we have a cop, a no lynch in this situation would not be a bad thing because I can get an investigation and the chances of lynching someone who's town is very high.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

To all Town,

When I am revealed to be the cop watch for Gayle and Kunk. Look how they disregard my claim.

And btw a no lynch is not always bad on Day 1, how does that make me scum? The chances of lynching scum on day 1 is 2/9, which is horrible percentage wise. This will also give me a chance to investigate someone so that we do not mislynch them or if I get lucky I can reveal someone as scum.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Alrite this will really hurt the chance of victory for we the town, but I have to roleclaim because I want to give time for everyone to rethink their votes so we are not forced into a "no lynch"
[...]
Now knowing that we have a cop, a no lynch in this situation would not be a bad thing because I can get an investigation and the chances of lynching someone who's town is very high.

Contradicting yourself.

The first one I said "forced into a NL." The second one I was inferring that we would have a choice in the matter.

He is saying that he doesn't find me scummy but he is okay with my lynch. This is blatantly going with the flow, which scum can easily do without bringing too much attention to themselves.

You essentially did the same think by pushing for a policy lynch. In this, though, bob explained that other players have brought up good points against you and that he wants to avoid a no lynch. Those were his reasons for a vote.

But its still going with the flow, is it not? And with the policy lynch you would do the same thing if you were in any of our situations.

because I can get an investigation

Kunk already explained this

There is a 1/2 percent chance that we have a doctor. I am willing to take that chance.

and the chances of lynching someone who's town is very high.

Not if we lynch

you

.

No because I am town like I said before

[PatriotsDynasty09]

When I am revealed to be the cop watch for Gayle and Kunk. Look how they disregard my claim.

I disregard your claim, because it is a ridiculously obvious lie.

That only way you could know that is if you were the cop and you're not because

I AM

.

And btw a no lynch is not always bad on Day 1, how does that make me scum? The chances of lynching scum on day 1 is 2/9, which is horrible percentage wise.

Except our lynch is not totally random. We vote for the player with the greatest chance to be scum. In this case,

you

. And reading your posts, that chance is 100%. Where is the good in letting possible scum live and therefore guaranteeing the survival of both scum, which in turn guarantees a least one scum on day 3? You say you can find scum with an investigation. What if you are night killed? What if you investigate a townie?

We are letting two scum live if you lynch me. And you ARE guaranteeing that one scum lives to day 3 if you lynch me. If I get NK'd then so be it, at least we didn't lynch the cop on day 1. If I investigate a townie then I'll reveal that and then we won't ever mislynch them.

This will also give me a chance to investigate someone so that we do not mislynch them or if I get lucky I can reveal someone as scum.

In F11, scum can't investigate.

I know that but I am a pro-town sane cop, so I can investigate.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

The first one I said "forced into a NL." The second one I was inferring that we would have a choice in the matter.

In this situation, a no lynch is bad whether we do it by choice or not.

I've said why its not but you said I was contradicting myself and I was proving why I wasn't

But its still going with the flow, is it not? And with the policy lynch you would do the same thing if you were in any of our situations.

Explain how bob's play is worse than your play. Explain why bob is the best lynch for town.

He is the best choice for the lynch because he tried not to bring much attention to himself by voting me and just saying "He is not acting scummy, but I don't want a no lynch". He is just going with the flow.

When I was pushing for the lynch on Medix, I had my own reasons and I didn't just say Player X had good points so I'm voting for Medix.

There is a 1/2 percent chance that we have a doctor. I am willing to take that chance.

If you are scum that means the doctor wasted their night action on mafia.

But I'm not scum so it is not a waste

[PatriotsDynasty09]

@PD:
Imagine this situation: An intensely scummy player claims cop. He advocates a no lynch, which could help scum. He advocates the doctor protect him, which could help scum. He could claim to have investigated a townie on day 2, and it would be hard to prove that he is not the cop without a counterclaim. But a counterclaim only helps scum. Is that player not the best lynch?

1. Your biggest argument against me is that I was pushing a policy in which others were doing so too. What made you single me out?

2. Like I've said 1000 times a no lynch is not always a bad thing, it depends on what happens during the night.

3. Well since I know that I am the cop, a cc would help because then I would know who is scum.

So no I am

NOT

the best lynch

Also, earlier you said 'Townies should not care about being lynched'. If you are town, surely you are willing to be lynched to help town learn of the truth of your claims?

Townies as in Vanilla Townies. Why would power roles not care about being lynched?

[PatriotsDynasty09]

PD, assuming that you are the cop, what was your reason for claiming at L-2, with 4 days until deadline? Also assuming that you are the cop, what is your case on AlmightyBob, other than OMGUS?

I said my reason for claiming when I did. If I claimed at L-1 and 1-2 days left until deadline, it would either 'force' us into a no lynch or we would lynch someone randomly and pray that they were scum.

I really don't see any OMGUS in my case against AB. AB just is going with the flow with no reasons to input, just that he is agreeing with "all" of the reasons against me. He is doing this so that he does not get much attention towards him and he can lay back while I get lynched.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

*No Comment*

Just hope we can win this one Kyiv.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

PD, refusing to answer further questions doesn't help your case any.

There are times when silence has the loudest voice

[PatriotsDynasty09]

There are times when silence has the loudest voice

And in this case it is shouting "I CAN'T COME UP WITH GOOD ANSWERS, SO I'M JUST GONNA STAY QUIET"

We all know that the more I talk, the more it helps you guys reveal who my scumbuddy is. So I took the liberty and did that for you.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

FYI no one is allowed to talk during the twilight phase. Thought I should let you know.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

teehee...yea sorry Kyiv for choosing you but you and me had little contact in the beginning so I thought that you would be the best candidate

But all I can say is congrats town and nothing can stop a Day 1 mob accusation

Sorry that I couldn't help you out Charlie