Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[MichelSableheart]

I'm still somewhat unsure about whether to vote Medix. You're right, we can't just wait and hope some other people will find evidence as the scum might just lurk.

Huh? Are you considering voting Medix because other players might not scumhunt? Why are you ignoring the possibility of scumhunting yourself there?

If Medix does turn up to be scum I think it's a slight possibility his partner gave up on him and could be voting him out to clear his innocence. Is this something that has happened in other games that could be a scum tell?

Scum can have a myriad of possible motivations for their behaviour. They can defend a partner hoping to prevent his lynch. They can attack a partner to look more town when he flips scum. When looking at interactions, it is not what they did that is important, but why they did it.

I think we are all agreed that Medix is the best choice because he has "given up" but I still think we should talk for 4-7 days more just to get as much info as we can (even though no one is really saying anything). Almightybob said he'll have some stuff tomorrow, but right now I think we need a roleclaim from Medix. You never know if he's the doctor/cop, and his "giving up" style of play will really hurt us if he is one of those roles.

You know, rather then saying we should talk more, you should actually talk. You seem to agree with a Medix lynch. Who is Medix' partner? Why?

[almightybob]

Also, please note that I disagree with you about when exactly you should ask for a claim. Asking for a claim shouldn't happen just because someone is at L-1. Asking for a claim should happen because someone is willing to place the hammer. Putting someone at L-1 is IMO just a step of added pressure over L-2. It shows a certain willingness to lynch, but it does not end the day and therefore doesn't have to be final.

I didn't mean that L-1 -> ask for claim. I meant that the way I see it, you decide who you want to lynch while they're still at L-2, by other people stating their intention to vote. Then you get the claim as a last-minute check once you're happy with that person being the lynch. Then if the claim isn't game-changing you go ahead with the lynch. I guess it's just different playstyles though, and it's not really a fruitful point of discussion anymore, so let's agree to disagree.

We have been asking him to come up with a case for a couple of pages now. When he finally does a bit of attacking, you attack him for attacking someone? Seriously?

I'm not attacking him for attacking someone. Were he to present a semi-impressive case on Magic Trainer, I'd be fine with that. But considering he's avoided my post 148 and instead just thrown out a better-than-random vote, it just seems like he's doing exactly what he accused MT of - desperately trying to shift the focus.

@Medix - please respond to post 148.

Bob, would you rather lynch Magic Trainer over Medix?

No. MT responded well to my questioning, I'm fairly happy with the answers he gave. He is lower on my scumlist than Medix.

If Medix does turn up to be scum I think it's a slight possibility his partner gave up on him and could be voting him out to clear his innocence. Is this something that has happened in other games that could be a scum tell?

Yes, it's a fairly common scum tactic called bussing. Its reliability as a scumtell varies in my eyes, but usually I look at the last few people on a scum wagon, as that's a common time for the scumbuddy to think "My partner's going to die anyway, I need to get on the wagon to look more Town". If someone wagonhops late with poor reasoning, they could well be bussing.

[RandomMaster]

Hey, I'm back.

Are the four people voting Medix voting him because you think he's scum, or because he's not putting forward any content? I'm personally not sure if he's a scared scum or just a useless townie.

I'm voting for him because for me, he doesn't put forward content, he avoids it. He still hasn't answered many questions that many of us and myself have asked him. Nothing prevents him from answering these questions, so why isn't he? When I voted a while back for Magic Trainer to ask him some questions, he answered with a logical defense. With Medix on the other hand, he still hasn't gave one that really holds up. His recent absense does not help his case. For me, I think he is acting scummy.

[RandomMaster]

Also, almightybob and PatriotsDynasty09, are you guys still sticking to your votes towards Magic Trainer and Kyiv respectively, and why?

[Lastsurvivor]

If Medix gets replaced, and his replacement can put forth content, are you going to lynch him/her still?

[almightybob]

Also, almightybob and PatriotsDynasty09, are you guys still sticking to your votes towards Magic Trainer and Kyiv respectively, and why?

Not really. As I said, he's answered my questions satisfactorily. My serious vote right now would be on Medix, but he's at L-1 and I'm not ready for the day to end. I just haven't bothered to unvote MT.

[kunkstar7]

If Medix gets replaced, and his replacement can put forth content, are you going to lynch him/her still?

If Medix gets replaced, we would give the replacement a chance to prove otherwise. If the replacement is unsatisfactory as well, then I believe the lynch should proceed.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Also, almightybob and PatriotsDynasty09, are you guys still sticking to your votes towards Magic Trainer and Kyiv respectively, and why?

My vote on Kyiv was random as stated but right now I have no reason to unvote so it will stay where it is.

[Kyiv]

-.-

Okay, doesn't look like Medix is coming back, and no one else is doing it, so I'll just keep scumhunting:

Post 52 here invokes a bit of WIFOM, and then an unrelated vote. He continues the discussion with more WIFOM, and eventually comes to blows with Lastsurvivor with this post. He blows the misinterpretation out of the water: LS admitted to misinterpreting based on lack of sleep, and I'm almost certain Kunkstar was joking about his being defensive. Note that this was

long after

my RVS stage vote on LS for that exact reason. As he continues his tiff with LS, he stays completely on the fence about Medix, neither pushing his lynch nor rushing to his defense. It's a small thing, but it was worth looking at.

Secondly, there's Patriots

Destiny

Dynasty, who has been eerily quiet this entire game. Most of his posts deal with game theory, and are even very short about that. Once a real bandwagon got started, he expressed that he would be more than happy to hop on, but has yet to do so. He is clearly shown rushing the town and Medix here. Although he wasn't trying to end the day, he was threatening with a self-imposed deadline, which I find very scummy. Once he was called out on it though, he backpedals (also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

I've performed a miracle, and posted something "new" while you guys waited, this isn't going to happen again. So get moving =P

[Lastsurvivor]

Kyiv, a couple pages ago, you put an IGMEOY onto Patriots. What about his behavior do you not like, and do you still think that you need that IGMEOY?

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Secondly, there's Patriots

Destiny

Dynasty, who has been eerily quiet this entire game. Most of his posts deal with game theory, and are even very short about that. Once a real bandwagon got started, he expressed that he would be more than happy to hop on, but has yet to do so. He is clearly shown rushing the town and Medix here. Although he wasn't trying to end the day, he was threatening with a self-imposed deadline, which I find very scummy. Once he was called out on it though, he backpedals (also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

Me "saying" that I was going to vote was trying to add pressure on Medix. But you are right in the fact that RM beat me to it. Are we ready to end the day yet? If so I will put the lynch on Medix and end the day.

But I don't get how you say I am "rushing" Medix and "the town". All I was going to do was to put Medix at L-1, which goes back to the pressure thing. Right now he is giving NO defense and the only reason I am keeping my vote off of him is to let town discussion continue.

And how are deadlines scummy? Its one thing if I say "you have 2 minutes to give a response or I will find you scummy" and what I did which was "Medix, you have been giving no defense and I'm sick of it, I will give you another day but if you do not give a defense I will place my vote on you"

[Lastsurvivor]

Secondly, there's Patriots

Destiny

Dynasty, who has been eerily quiet this entire game. Most of his posts deal with game theory, and are even very short about that. Once a real bandwagon got started, he expressed that he would be more than happy to hop on, but has yet to do so. He is clearly shown rushing the town and Medix here. Although he wasn't trying to end the day, he was threatening with a self-imposed deadline, which I find very scummy. Once he was called out on it though, he backpedals (also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

Me "saying" that I was going to vote was trying to add pressure on Medix. But you are right in the fact that RM beat me to it. Are we ready to end the day yet? If so I will put the lynch on Medix and end the day.

But I don't get how you say I am "rushing" Medix and "the town". All I was going to do was to put Medix at L-1, which goes back to the pressure thing. Right now he is giving NO defense and the only reason I am keeping my vote off of him is to let town discussion continue.

And how are deadlines scummy? Its one thing if I say "you have 2 minutes to give a response or I will find you scummy" and what I did which was "Medix, you have been giving no defense and I'm sick of it, I will give you another day but if you do not give a defense I will place my vote on you"

It's more your eagerness to vote Medix. It isn't that much, but it looks pretty bad.

I'd love to see the day go on longer, but nothing is really happening at the moment. A day 1 end is fine with me as soon as Kyiv answers my question (I'm just one person though, so don't go ending the day because of what I say, obviously).

[MichelSableheart]

Unvote

Vote: PatriotsDynasty09

I've said this before. You have been saying several times now that you wanted discussion to continue. However, you have made no attempt whatsoever to actually discuss anything. Rather, it seems that you have been waiting till you could hammer him without drawing too much suspicion. Especially you asking if we are ready to end the day is suspicious in this context.

Besides that, the feeling of the Medix wagon changed suddenly. Kunkstar's and RandomMasters replies to LastSurvivors questions imply that they want to lynch him not because they believe he is scum, but because they believe he is not helping the town. Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

[kunkstar7]

Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I completely agree with this statement. It is the case of lynching for noncontribution rather than scumminess. Until either Medix shows up or replaced, there shouldn't be a judgment on him.

My suspicion is on LS, as he is being the little voice in the back, egging anything that comes up on.

[RandomMaster]

(also note his lack of a vote, though RM beat him to the L-1 vote.)

I was the L-2 vote, kunkstar was the L-1 vote.

Besides that, the feeling of the Medix wagon changed suddenly. Kunkstar's and RandomMasters replies to LastSurvivors questions imply that they want to lynch him not because they believe he is scum, but because they believe he is not helping the town. Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I might have also implied that I am voting for Medix because he isn't putting new information, but also when he does answer the questions and puts out information, it doesn't hold up any water, and we have called him out for that on several occasions. For example, post 73, 98, 117, 122, 148, 149, 153, end of 157, 160, 161, and 168. His defenses have numerous holes in them. For that, and the fact about not adding any information, that's why I voted for him. I guess it's a little bit of both, my vote is for lack of information and because I think he's scum.

[Lastsurvivor]

Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

I completely agree with this statement. It is the case of lynching for noncontribution rather than scumminess. Until either Medix shows up or replaced, there shouldn't be a judgment on him.

My suspicion is on LS, as he is being the little voice in the back, egging anything that comes up on.

Specifics please.

[pablito]

Magic Trainer has been prodded. Currently in search of replacement for Medix and now Magic Trainer

[Magic Trainer]

Mod: Please replace me out, I'm getting too busy to give as much attention to this game as I'd like to

Flareonage replaces Magic Trainer

[kunkstar7]

That's very true, but I think the fact that a townie could just be trying to avoid being in the spotlight because he's too afraid makes lurking a bit of an unreliable scumtell. I'm not defending Medix though, since I think that my scenario might not be the case for him, and I want to hear what he has to say.

Especially the little addition of "I'm not defending Medix though." Why did you feel the need to add that in?

Kyiv, a couple pages ago, you put an IGMEOY onto Patriots. What about his behavior do you not like, and do you still think that you need that IGMEOY?

It was a IGMEOY. Not a vote. In such case I don't think it has that much weight to it, and you final section of that question seemed like you attributing too much weight to it.

[almightybob]

Unvote

Vote: PatriotsDynasty09

I've said this before. You have been saying several times now that you wanted discussion to continue. However, you have made no attempt whatsoever to actually discuss anything. Rather, it seems that you have been waiting till you could hammer him without drawing too much suspicion. Especially you asking if we are ready to end the day is suspicious in this context.

Besides that, the feeling of the Medix wagon changed suddenly. Kunkstar's and RandomMasters replies to LastSurvivors questions imply that they want to lynch him not because they believe he is scum, but because they believe he is not helping the town. Lynching for that reason is, in my experience, the biggest cause of mislynches.

Correct me with I'm wrong, but in my eyes there's a contradiction here.
In the second paragraph you effectively say that lynching because someone is being unhelpful leads to mislynches - and yet you vote PD09 because he's being unhelpful by not contributing.

[pablito]

Vote Count

Medix (3): Kyiv, RandomMaster, kunkstar7
Magic Trainer (2): almightybob, Medix
Kyiv (1): PatriotsDynasty09
PatriotsDynasty09 (1): MichelSableheart

not voting: Lastsurvivor, Magic Trainer

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

[Lastsurvivor]

That's very true, but I think the fact that a townie could just be trying to avoid being in the spotlight because he's too afraid makes lurking a bit of an unreliable scumtell. I'm not defending Medix though, since I think that my scenario might not be the case for him, and I want to hear what he has to say.

Especially the little addition of "I'm not defending Medix though." Why did you feel the need to add that in?

Er, way to post the quote I was replying to. I was explaining why I don't find lurking 100% scummy. I said I wasn't defending Medix because I didn't want to give the impression that I assumed Medix was town, because I still don't.

How is this "egging everything that comes up"?

Kyiv, a couple pages ago, you put an IGMEOY onto Patriots. What about his behavior do you not like, and do you still think that you need that IGMEOY?

It was a IGMEOY. Not a vote. In such case I don't think it has that much weight to it, and you final section of that question seemed like you attributing too much weight to it.

I feel that Kyiv should elaborate on her IGMEOY:

Can't really say, but his behavior so far has been off-putting. I think he is someone I want to be wary about.

I wanted to know what about his behavior is "off-putting." I didn't want a BS answer, so I was specific about what I wanted to know.

Also don't see how I'm "egging anything that comes up on." here either.

[Lastsurvivor]

Sorry *Way to not post the quote I was replying to

[pablito]

Gayle is replacing Medix and Flareonage is replacing Magic Trainer.

Thanks so much Gayle and Flareonage. Don't forget the deadline is Jan 21st.

[Flareonage]

I'll get caught up later. I'm gonna go eat and then do some other stuff but I'll be back after that