Mini #893 - Dollhouse Mafia (Game Over!)

[TheButtonmen]

If the scum don't have a NK until we give one to them I don't think we can hand out powers democraticly. My reasoning is this fully 33% of the game is scum, thus any vote we do to determine who gets imprinted is largely in their favour due to having a 4 person voting block. So if / when we are handing out powers I think it needs to be done via dice roll for at least the first day or two.

[TheButtonmen]

How is a dice roll any better? If people vote for an imprint, that's information and discussion we get out of it. If people vote to imprint someone who's later found out as scum, we can take a closer look at the people in favour of imprinting that person, which is essentially a gold mine of information we would not have if we determined an imprint by dice roll.

Problem with that is the town-scum ratio, with 8-4 if we mislynch today then give the scum a NK we start day two with 6 town and 4 scum. Now the problem with imprinting everyone is that the we don't know which people to lynch is people start dying as we don't have enough spare towns people to last the days it would take to lynch until we found the scum with the NK ability.

Basically theres a whole lot a scum and not that many town, thus voting is tilted in scum favour, so by randomizing we remove that. Now if we randomly chose a player day 1 and repeatedly imprint them and vote NL until they find scum we have a 66% of winning right now and honestly with a 2-1 town to scum ratio that's a hell of a lot better win % then playing the game straight up.

[TheButtonmen]

This is wrong. And scummy.

There are 4 scum and 8 town. You're making it sound like town is in the minority. We are twice as strong at the scum right now.

No we aren't, they have a 4 man group that can vote in concert, we have 8 individuals. 4 man informed minority votes much stronger then 8 uninformed majority.

[TheButtonmen]

We need to play this game like normal and decide who we think is scum, lynch them, and in the process, decide who we think is town, and vote for the imprint based on that.

We can't play this game like normal if we want to win IMO, 8-4 is unwinnable by town in regular mafia, thus playing this like a regular game of mafia seems a terrible call.

[TheButtonmen]

So you're saying we should elect randomly?

That's like saying we should also lynch randomly because otherwise scum have too much control.

I''d be down with imprinting 1 person over and over agian while voting NL over and over agian then once that person has found the scum, spend 4 days lynching them all. That gives us a straight up 66% chance of winning if we do it D1, do you think in a 8-4 game if we play regularly we have a >66% chance of winning?

[TheButtonmen]

we will be playing with scum not having a night kill so far. So if lynch is the only cause of death, then the odds are decent for town.

Ah but if we hand out powers by vote how long do you think it will take the mafia to end up empowered?

[TheButtonmen]

What I want is that we give powers to a few (or maybe 1) person that we think is town.

I completly agree with empowering only 1 person, but how would we decide who?

If you don't like dice rolls (and please enough with the ad hominem monkey comments) then what do you think is the best method for determining who we empower?

[TheButtonmen]

Yes it would take quite a while but a win for town on D25 is as much a win as a win on D4.
The dice a player and continually empower them while voting NL means we can't lose if we random a townsfolk (66%). Now if it takes thirty days, well we can't lose during them so why does it matter how long it takes?

[TheButtonmen]

Meh, I PM'd iam about this thinking it might be boringly breaking the game, but if you vote nl and imprint one person say 100 times, till they hve a cop result on everyone, then you lynch them. If they are scum, rinse and repeat with a different townie, if they are town follow the cop.

I think that breaks it, theoretically even with naive/paranoid cops if you did it enough.

But yeah, it would be boring as batshit.

lol, last 2 pages have been a discussion over that very idea.

[TheButtonmen]

Oh I fully agree it will be boring as hell. But hey blame the set up not me, the player distrabution makes it pretty much impossible to try to win this via voting.

The dice up a superman plan provides town the best chance to win thus I support it, hell maybe after we establish the the empower player X vote no NL thing and run it through a couple times the mod will let us call the game done.

[TheButtonmen]

Err so explaining the method that has the best win %'age for own is a scum tell?

[TheButtonmen]

And I don't think you have considered naive or paranoid results.

I did, we just get a large enough sample size to determine what results were fraudulent.Only time that wouldn't work was if every cop role is paranoid/naive which I don't see happening in a game where the town is as weak as this one.

[TheButtonmen]

I don't your vote is scummy, I do however think it's lazy and not helpful to town at all.

Also I'm not breaking the spirit of the game at all, it's the towns job to try their best to win, you who voted for someone not because you think they are scum or want to pressure them but out of boredom are are much more agianst the spirit of the game then I am.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Pug89

I'm working under the assumption that the scum is competent thus won't vote for the same person as a group enough so that we can form a pattern. Also agreed about Deathnotes post.

@ Elvis_knits,

The one cop result even is paranoid/naive/insane we simply get a large enough sample size of results to make the few fraudulent results obvious.

My main problem with playing this as a regular game is once the scum gets a NK at any point in the game, we lose if we have made 2 mislynchs. Making only 1 mislynchs during the course of the game when the scum get 4 votes seems nigh impossible.

[TheButtonmen]

This is my entire point. I think having fun with the game is far, far more important than winning. If playing for fun decreases our chances of winning, then so be it.

You make yourself sound very dangerous to town when its in a game with a very very small margin of error. Also does this mean you will lurk / leave the game the moment you stop having fun?

[TheButtonmen]

@Deathnote

, Empowering everyone is a terrible terrible terribad idea.

[TheButtonmen]

Agian large enough sample size of results (Let's say 2+ results for each player) allows us to compare them and see any discrepincies, any player whos results conflict we examine twice more. Thus negating sanity as a factor.

[TheButtonmen]

Buttonman

why

are you assuming that a Town-imprintee is going to get 1-shot Cop four times, or even at all?
.....
Buttonman, why do you comment that DN's plan is bad on page four when he's been pushing it since like page 1?
......
Buttonman, you also make my gutdar click.

My suggestion includes imprinting so many times get every what we need repeatedly. I commented when I did because thats when I caught up, if you will notice the time stamps those posts were going up at a rate that meant by the time I posted and checked back there was more to respond to.

In closing I must ask is gutdar good or bad?

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP:

It may just be reverse halo effect because she's arguing sanely against players who've been acting like DN and Buttonman.

Ow!

Anyways yes my suggested solution is even less fun then paint drying and I can only hope that if we do implement it succesfully the mod will call the game or something rather then force us to run through it a few dozen times.

[TheButtonmen]

Imprinting all is much much worse then a null, all you have 1 night where town's actions will throw up so much confusion that we will gain very little (Imagine if you get tracker as town that night...) and leave us facing a team full of power.

[TheButtonmen]

Hmm... no I am pretty sure I am right. The only role that benefits would be a cop role. Unless you have proof otherwise, perhaps an example of what role could possibly help beside cop?

If I am understanding correctly are you saying only the cop power role helps town? Cause I'm kinda thinking Docs,Trackers and roleblocker will come in really handy in this set up.

[TheButtonmen]

Nope, I don't think so. At least they wont help if we only pick one or two people a day. If the person we pick gets a tracker role, who the hell is he going to track? No one has powers. Docs have no one to protect and roleblockers have no one to block. N2 might be different if we give a scum player a power role, but other then that... no other roles help.

Your reasoning seems terribad, roleblockers can block the person who got imprinted the previous round (doing nothing if they were town but locking them down if they are mafia), Docs can protect confirmed townies (who in this set up are worth their weight in gold), Trackers can see if a previously imprinted person is still active (Thus if they are town or scum).

[TheButtonmen]

Ugh not too fond of the this added rule.

If three consecutive days and nights go by with no deaths, I'll declare the game a draw. Standard Happily Ever After clause.

As without it town can win 100% of the time, but the mod has spoken. So then with the easy town win off the table I guess it's time to get down to business and apparently by business I mean a discussion on imprinting.

So

@Everyone

where do you stand on it, what level do you think is best (Imprint all, most, few, one or none) and

why

?

[TheButtonmen]

Heh with the new rule it's 8-4 nightless if we don't imprint and even if we mislynch 3 times in a row we can just force a draw. I like it!

[TheButtonmen]

In that case town wins 100% of the time,

Step 1: Select someone at random for imprinting.
Step 2: Vote No Lynch
Step 3: Following day vote the same person for imprinting.

Rinse and repeat a few dozen times until that player claims to have confirmed investigations on each player. By confirmed I mean investigate each player twice and see if the results match, if they don't reinvestigate.

Step 4: The inprinted player gives us the mafia.
Step 5: We lynch the player who gave us the list.
Step 6: If they are town we hang everyone on said list, if they are scum we start agian at Step 1.

Town literally can't lose.

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP:

Town always wins rather if you remove the new rule, however with the new rule in place, Town can't lose as they can always force a draw before then.

[TheButtonmen]

Sorry its just whenever I'm faced by a system I don't haven't used before (like this imprinting thing) I try to break it down and see how it can be used best, which lead to me playing a rousing game of theory rather then mafia.

Now I'd like to point out the one problem with my Step by Step Guide to World Domination, while flawless it requires town to go along with it. Thus if town says no to whole no lynch thing over and over again it falls apart.

Now this seems to be a interesting if slightly problematic game design that I'd be interested in seeing play out. So while it is anti town to say so, if the general consensuses is lets play it out. I'm prepared to say;

No lynches? Sounds boring, Fuck that noise.

[TheButtonmen]

imprint elvis_knits

imprint SerialClergyman

Imprint: SerialClergyman
Imprint: elvis_knits

@SerialClergyman

Why did you inprint elvis_knits in your very first post? Especially since you have then said that you feel it's best to lynch without imprinting.

[TheButtonmen]

At the time I voted to imprint us, I really didn't care that it looked odd since I thought my conclusion that we were both town was pretty obvious. But I do understand why it might make people a little paranoid.

Please note I directed the question at him not you, you already laid out your reasons for the imprinting. Though I disagree with them I can at least understand it.

Serial on the other hand first post voted to inprint you two, then went on to say multiple times how he thought the best play was to inprint nobody. Hence me asking the question.

[TheButtonmen]

Why do you disagree with my reasons for imprinting SC and me? Do you think we could be faking or do you think scum are dumb enough not to understand their own kill mechanic?

I disagree with it because several people made that mistake of assuming scum started with NK but of them you only cleared yourself and Serial, who had in the past voted to also inprint you and himself.

[TheButtonmen]

Up until I learned that scum can not night kill, I was still for my plan.

I was down for the 'imprint everyone' idea until I heard the fact that Rogues don't have a night kill ability, unless imprinted with it.

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Because remembering to attach the actual message is beyond me.

What I'm getting it at is clearing people based on them not understanding the game set up seems odd and easily fakeable. Then you only clearing one of the people who had assumed wrong stood out tome.

[TheButtonmen]

The best part of all this is that your plan wouldn't even work, because I did actually consider potential game-breaking strategies when designing the set up, because I'm

not an idiot

. But I didn't want to say so, because I thought it might reveal setup info that I didn't want to reveal

If a infinite number of town uses of imprinting with no scum kills wouldn't win we can tell somethings about imprinting. Possibilities include;

A) There is no investigative imprints.
B) Imprinting has a chance to kill you.
C) Imprinting may change your alignment.
D) Scum can get imprinted by some method other then the vote.
E) Some imprints effect multiple people.

If anyone else think of other ways that a infinite number of town imprints wouldn't win please add them.

[TheButtonmen]

Since then, I sorta gave up on my idea as it would mean giving scum their night kills which I thought they all ready had.

Sorta? Also if you given up on that plan, what are your thoughts now?

[TheButtonmen]

Lynching gives us information where as imprinting probably won't, also the mafia wouldn't NK tonight even if they got a power that allows NK'ing they would just claim to been a doctor or some such.

[TheButtonmen]

Why unimprint Elvis, or rather why just Elvis seening as your still imprinting the 11 other players?

[TheButtonmen]

Wait, do you think everyone other than ek is town?

No. I think that everyone else is more town at the moment.

Uh? We have had 2 people just post V/La or will read later and I not post at all.....

[TheButtonmen]

So I should ignore that completely scummy thing he did because he took it back?

You voted for him because of his plan of imprinting everyone, yet he claimed that plan was because he didn't know the scum had NK's. Now you voted to imprint yourself and serial because both of you posted in manners that suggested that you didn't know the scum had NK's.

Am I misunderstanding your reason for voting for him?

[TheButtonmen]

Why didn't elvis choose a scum mate who hadn't imprinted her in his first post of the day? When was the plan hatched? Why didn't I imprint more than just one of my scumbuddies? Why didn't I answer her question the first time?

Those questions require an astounding amount of speculation, meaning that even if she did answer them it would be both quite easy to find flaws in the explanation and also it would be completely useless to town.

Here's some questions I'd rather answered, do you have any town tells on Elvis you want to share (seeing as your defending her and imprinting her)?, Why are so confident that Starbuck is scum and could you explain what the Starbuck&Deathnote connection is?

[TheButtonmen]

He also paid me the favor of voting to imprint me, so I figured I'd return it.

Ugh, Not a fan of that logic at all. People voting to imprint you shouldn't change your thoughts on them at all, what you basically said there was that you can be bribed.

[TheButtonmen]

@ SerialClergyman

, in that wall o'text you mention several times that Starbuck kept pushing the problem was Deathnotes idea not that he was scummy, yet the reason you think he's scummy is because of his idea. So I'm not seeing what your trying to get at here? Also all my previous questions to you (Post 212) still stand.

[TheButtonmen]

Heh I saw the future and answered your question before you could post!

Post 221 contains my current thoughts on it, I'm not quite understand your argument.

[TheButtonmen]

Also - what questions still stand? Could you grab them for me and I'll answer them?

Odd that you knew I said I still had some questions for you outstanding but you didn't know where/what they are.

Also all my previous questions to you (Post 212) still stand.

As when I said they still stood I made sure to give you the post number, but anyways.

Here's some questions I'd rather answered, do you have any town tells on Elvis you want to share (seeing as your defending her and imprinting her)?, Why are so confident that Starbuck is scum and could you explain what the Starbuck&Deathnote connection is?

Right now your saying Starbuck is scummy because of her obsessive defense on Death Note but I read the post you quoted as more Elvis-centric hence I didn;t really find it obsessive. You say you think Elvis is town and I'm wondering why, you explained why she would be a good imprint target earlier and that you support her plan for imprinting but not never why you think she's town and why do you think Deathnote is scum and what's his connection to Starbuck(You already explained why you think 'Buck is scum and her connection to DN.)

[TheButtonmen]

Oh, I totally answered the 212 questions already. Zzz.

A) No you didn't and B)

Vote: SerialClergyman

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP:

Hmm intresting somehow I compeltly skipped Post 234 and only saw Post 235, downgrading that vote to a FoS

Unvote, FoS SerialClergyman

[TheButtonmen]

Far too much of it seems to be that you think she is "obsessed with" and "defends" DN, but I don't see the huge scumtell there. The only way that her defense of DN could be scummy in my eyes is if DN was scum, but you say that you only think DN is scum in the first place because starbuck defended him. It just doesn't add up.(If you feel that it's unfair to say that most of your case is based around the way she talks about DN then we should discuss that, as it would change the way I view the case considerably.)

Pretty much in agreement with Messiah here.

[TheButtonmen]

@Button - what about my play makes you think I am scum? ?

As I said in my EBYOP: (Post 238) I somehow managed to completely miss post 234. Which made me read post 235 as super scummy.

[TheButtonmen]

Look at it this way - why would town defend someone she thinks is at BEST null? Why would she do it so often?

See your throwing around words like "Obsessive" and "Often" allot yet Starbuck defended Deathnote as far as I can tell in all of 2 posts, you on the other hand have defended Elvis in 6-7 times. So if your read on Starbuck is due to her defending Deathnote "Obsessively" then I'd love to know why your so confident in your Elvis read that you defending her three times more often then a "Obsessive" amount

[TheButtonmen]

I just feel, with scum 100% not having a kill as of this very moment, tomorrow is just sort of an extension of today. If we imprint and don't lynch, today+tomorrow is basically one long day in my eyes, only with the added information that comes from knowing what sort of imprints are out there, and anything else we might learn from what is revealed during the night phase.

I get what your saying but its a two edged sword, if we NL and imprint we know more about the imprinting process / effects and can make better decisions tomorrow based on what we learn about imprinting and what the imprinted person learns. But if we lynch today the imprinted person can A) use their powers better (due to having voting information) and and let's us vote / hand out power(s) better tomorrow by having allot more to go on due to flip and voting.

[TheButtonmen]

lynching is less dangerous to the town than imprinting. If we were to lynch without imprinting, the worst that happens is we're down to 7 townies and 4 scum and have a wagon's worth of information.
If we imprint without lynching, we get all sorts of random bits of information that will be genuinely hard to piece together, and worse case scenario is that we permanently give scum abilities.

Thus I'm in favour of a lynch and very few if any at all imprints.

This about perfectly sums up my thoughts on how to proceed at this point in the game.

@Vala

the constant posting of scum / town lists seem odd to me as well however given the nature of imprinting I guess they aren't as odd as they would be in a regular set up, as for the Lewis thing, I don;t really read it as a scumtell as it was his first / only post thus far. It would have pinged my scumdar more if he hadn't posted a postion on anything as then I would have suspected him of active lurking, so while his vote did seem a bit out of place I don't see it as a scumtell.

[TheButtonmen]

If I unimprint someone, its because i don't get a town vibe from them. Lew's post seem off.

He lacks as opinion on the issues of the game which everyone should have an opinion on at the moment.

@ DeathNote

I'd appreciate it if no one else answered it for him, What issues are those?

[TheButtonmen]

If I unimprint someone, its because i don't get a town vibe from them. Lew's post seem off.

He lacks as opinion on the issues of the game which everyone should have an opinion on at the moment.

Why do you find the need to call me out like that? Has someone been answering questions for me and making it seem like I am not fit to give responses for myself?

Issues discussed this game:

1. The controversy over the various plans people have suggested, my plan of imprinting everyone being one such topic.

2. The issues of Starbuck seemingly defending me against Elvis for coming up with said plan above.

3. SerialClergyman attacking Starbuck for defending me, and inadvertently defending Elvis in the process.

See it strikes me if you had even read his posts he touched on two of them and placed a vote based on the third. So instead I have to assume you removed him from your list of canadites because he was taking flak from people, then when questioned as to why you removed it you made up a reason without checking. If I'm wrong I'd love to know what i missed as going with whatever is popular at the moment is not exactly the best scum hunting technique.

[TheButtonmen]

Once finals are over (Oh blessed day) I need to go back and meta some people. Also the following keeps coming up and makes me kinda nervous as to what I'll find.

And on that note, if I didn't already know DN's meta is to post very curtly and anti-townly like this, I would have buried him ages ago.

[TheButtonmen]

One of the things I look at when determining who's on what side in an argument I'm not particularly a part of (if somebody's implicating me as scum, I will inevitably have bias against that person and can't think so objectively) is how many are lurking, particularly how many people have started lurking since an argument started. If a valuable scum is on the line, there are sure to be very few inactives. (If an invaluable or overtly scummy scum is on the line, people might lurk anyway in order to not implicate themselves)

There are exactly four people who I feel are not posting enough: lewarcher, Jason, DN, and Plum. That's enough to make up a scumteam of people lazing around drinking margaritas while town beats up town.

Since you brought it up I would point out Plum has been active in her other games, yet hasn't posted in this one in over 3.5 days.

[TheButtonmen]

Once finals are over (Oh blessed day) I need to go back and meta some people. Also the following keeps coming up and makes me kinda nervous as to what I'll find.

And on that note, if I didn't already know DN's meta is to post very curtly and anti-townly like this, I would have buried him ages ago.

Why are you nervous about what you'll find?

I find with meta's like Death Notes I find it allot harder to find connections / scumtells due to second guessing and not knowing how much to read into their reactions to pressure.

[TheButtonmen]

Why should my meta not be consistent? People are too use to conformity on this site and policy lynch any suggestions that are different from what they are used too. I am one who believes and fresh ideas and radical thinking so try to take that into consideration before kill me off. (goes for every game)

Who suggested a policy lynch? You have 2 votes on you....

[TheButtonmen]

How is that a policy lynch?

Because I know how this will turn out. My tactic right now is called, appeal to emotion.

If we lynched you and your really not helping your case with comments like that. It would be because you did / said things that were felt to be scummy. That's not a policy lynch....

[TheButtonmen]

Before I am policy lynched, make sure the town has figured out who they want to imprint today. You might as well start scumhunting for tomorrow too. No sense and not getting ahead of the game.

Awsome so two people voted for you, so your going to stop playing and take your ball home. Boo Fudgin Hoo You don't want to be voted, how about you play the game and scumhunt rather then complain.

[TheButtonmen]

You wouldn't agree to imprint me knowing I'd only have the chance to use it once if dn is town, even if I was scum?

Not quite sure what your trying to say here? WHy would you only get to use it once?

[TheButtonmen]

I have a suggestion. Lynch DN, imprint me. If I'm wrong, and he's town, I'll be the next lynch, and I'll tell you all what my power was and where I used it and what I found. If I'm right, we lynch Starbuck and imprint me and elvis.

Thoughts?

Yes I have thoughts;

Vote: SerialClergyman

Your trying to order lynch's in advance, your creating dichotomies and your still trying to get us to imprint elvis even though theres no reason to belive shes town.

[TheButtonmen]

There's so many things wrong with that plan, infact with DN"s sudden push for his own policy lynch then you presenting this "plan" it seems to me your planning a bussing that gives your a free mislynch, gives mafia 2 power roles.

[TheButtonmen]

Also presuming you aren't mafia bussing DN, how would the "Plan" be a town tell on elvis at all?
WHy do you think we should (Presuming we went along with this) imprint her?

[TheButtonmen]

*dies a little inside*

If you think the whole me + elvis vs SB + DN thing is an elaborate bus, you are so skeptical that you will never be able to come to a decision on anything, in my opinion. This automatic distrust of anyone who suggests anythign to advance the game

A) It isn't elabrate at all, bussing Death note isn't that hard do and you scum have a day time quick topic.
B) I seem to have come to a decsion on something quite fine.

[TheButtonmen]

fine i'll cave to peer pressure have a darn cheat sheet grumble grumble

Thank you.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Plum,

Heh if it makes it easier I'm sure you would be forgiven one nontextwall post.

[TheButtonmen]

@Plum: how many imprints would you give between 1-5, and who are your imprint candidates at the moment?

Actually, let's make that question @EVERYONE.

2 Imprints 1 Lynch is what I'd be most supportive of at the moment.

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Note I didn't list the people who I'd chose as until I get a feel for the new replacments (never played with either) my list is quite fluid and I'm not fond of town / scum lists.

[TheButtonmen]

Two confirmed town

wut

Serial and Elvis keep making fail plans that they say magically confirms them being town due to a mixture of bad logic and reading incomprension as far as I can tell.

[TheButtonmen]

Elvis - not one person feeling out whether any of my lynch DN then me type plans is a good idea and all of them being rejected out of hand suggests to me that DN is scum for the same reason you just came to your elvis and sc are town conclusion.

That other players are literate and can use basic logic? Like what are you trying to say here.

[TheButtonmen]

Hmm, on second thought...

Unimprint: VMD

What changed in your mind about VMD?

[TheButtonmen]

How does lynching DN make us anymore sure who town is? Also imprinting people we think are town is the opposite of random.

[TheButtonmen]

lynching is less dangerous to the town than imprinting. If we were to lynch without imprinting, the worst that happens is we're down to 7 townies and 4 scum and have a wagon's worth of information.
If we imprint without lynching, we get all sorts of random bits of information that will be genuinely hard to piece together, and worse case scenario is that we permanently give scum abilities.

Thus I'm in favour of a lynch and very few if any at all imprints.

This about perfectly sums up my thoughts on how to proceed at this point in the game.

Interesting. Why the complete turnaround since the above post?

@Plum: how many imprints would you give between 1-5, and who are your imprint candidates at the moment?

Actually, let's make that question @EVERYONE.

2 Imprints 1 Lynch is what I'd be most supportive of at the moment.

What complete turnabout? I'm still suggesting a lynch and very few imprints.

[TheButtonmen]

It does this because although it is POSSIBLE we are both scum bussing our partner, it is statistically and motivationally MORE LIKELY that we are town pushing a case on scum.

You and Elvis keep falling back on this assumption that both of you share an aligment, whats stopping just one of you being scum?

[TheButtonmen]

I'm opposed to a DN lynch at the moment. Partially because right now it would mean

0

imprints getting handed out today/tonight.

So anyone hammering DN before we can figure out what the plan is in regard to imprints I will assume your scum.

[TheButtonmen]

DN is starting to get on even my nerves -- I'm just flat-out running out of patience for him and if he's going to be like this all game it might be better to just get rid of him and if he

is

scum, then hey, icing on the cake.

What's he done recently that's ticked you off since your last post?

[TheButtonmen]

EBWOP: And since everyone else is,

Imprint: TheButtonmen

I see no reason to not self imprint as well.

[TheButtonmen]

If I'm counting correctly at the moment TheButtonmen (Me), VMD and Messiah are all sitting at 5 Imprint votes.

Thoughts? How many people to we want imprinted?

[TheButtonmen]

How many scum if any do you think are imprinting you?

Why?

[TheButtonmen]

I want to get a feel for your understanding of the game.

If your trying to ask me who I think is scum, I would point out that I'm currently voting you. As for my other thoughts on town / scum well call me old fashioned, I know scum / town lists are popular in this game but somethings I like keeping close to the chest D1.

[TheButtonmen]

How many scum if any do you think are imprinting you?

Why?

[TheButtonmen]

I concur that Buttonmen should answer SC's question.

I want to get a feel for your understanding of the game.

If your trying to ask me who I think is scum, I would point out that I'm currently voting you. As for my other thoughts on town / scum well call me old fashioned, I know scum / town lists are popular in this game but somethings I like keeping close to the chest D1.

As I said I'd rather not post a town / scum list. Now when I asked him why he asked me that, he responded he wanted to get a feel for my understanding of the game. I belive I've made my thoughts clear already and it's not as though I've been lurking.

[TheButtonmen]

I don't think he's asking you to make a scum/town list, I think he's asking you to venture a guess to how many scumbags are supporting your imprinting, not who, specifically. At least, that's the impression I got.

In that case 0-1 and I'm curious as to why he directed it at me in particular.

[TheButtonmen]

@ buttonman ....

----

Also, DeathNote is imprinting all of you. This is surely somewhat suspicious given apparantly everyone now seems in the mood to lynch him.

Why did you think 0 scum on your imprint list was an option when your biggest suspect was on there?

Are you reasonably happy thinking that if he's scum the other 4 are town?

Uh?

Vote:SerialClergyman

Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[TheButtonmen]

My biggest suspect =/= DeathNote

[TheButtonmen]

So of the people who found and started pushing the wagon that we all now think is scummy and have all jumped on

Again you don't speak for everyone. If we had all jumped on the wagon there would be a man up a tree by now.

[TheButtonmen]

I especially like these points by SC:
1) DN (The guy we are agreeing to hang by his neck), is voting all the people who look like they'll get imprinted.

2) The people who started the wagon on DN: plum, elvis, pug, are nowhere on the wagons to imprint the top vote getters.

3)And Plum, elvis, pug all have like nobody voting to imprint them.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

In response;

1) DN is imprinting pretty much everybody so I have no idea what your trying to get at here.

2) Again not getting the thrust of this.

3) Plum's been lurkin, You are super suspcious looking and VMD is imprinting pug.

So what's so Hmmmmmm?

[TheButtonmen]

Ugh this is why I didn't want to answer his question, this new line of "logic" that Elvis and SC are throwing at us isn't helpful at all. As it's so full of WIFOM / Bad logic to be compeletly useless.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm opposed to a DN lynch at the moment. Partially because right now it would mean

0

imprints getting handed out today/tonight.

So anyone hammering DN before we can figure out what the plan is in regard to imprints I will assume your scum.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on you be scum, I only regret that I can't vote you more.

[TheButtonmen]

And SC if DN is scum don't even try to pull the bullshit logic "oh look he's scum so that means I'm / Elvis is town"

[TheButtonmen]

SuperMegaDuperUltraConfirmVote: SerialClergyman

So then with that out of the way, we do need to finish the imprinting discussion.

[TheButtonmen]

And SC if DN is scum don't even try to pull the bullshit logic "oh look he's scum so that means I'm / Elvis is town"

[TheButtonmen]

And SC if DN is scum don't even try to pull the bullshit logic "oh look he's scum so that means I'm / Elvis is town"

[TheButtonmen]

Farside, could you be talked into moving that vote to SC?

[TheButtonmen]

It would appear Imprints were reset.

Imprint: TheButtonmen

[TheButtonmen]

Self Imprinting is a null tell;

A townie knows only one confirmed town, themselves thus they vote to imprint themselves.
A scum wants a power role, thus they imprint themselves.

[TheButtonmen]

Huh;

FoS: Plum

, I'll just throw this out there, post to follow when I have a chance.

[TheButtonmen]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Is anyone else pretty much unable to use the site? I can't use the quote button and posts aren't appearing.

[TheButtonmen]

@ SC

Could you quote three (3) posts where you feel Starbuck is defending DN?

I can do this and placed in bold those defense's from starbuck about DN

Awsome now SC has two mouth pieces as you and elvis answer questions for him....

[TheButtonmen]

But please keep ignoring my point about what I asked SC about not imprinting and how town is more likely to get imprinted over scum since you're so fond of being a mouthpiece for him

Oh the irony...

[TheButtonmen]

On TheButtonmen

I'm opposed to a DN lynch at the moment. Partially because right now it would mean 0 imprints getting handed out today/tonight.

So anyone hammering DN before we can figure out what the plan is in regard to imprints I will assume your scum.

Until this post, I have felt pro-town about TheButtonmen, but this just seems like he was trying to stall the lynch.

FOS: TheButtonmen

Err thats exactly what I was trying to do? Notice I said it quite bluntly....

[TheButtonmen]

unvote, vote deathnote

executive decision. Let's continue this after a flip.

Executive decision?

Way to cut off the discussion that everyone seemed pretty heavily involved in.

Really odd that you would call me on it, when you yourself pointed out the reason in the same post

[TheButtonmen]

*dusts off Messiah's place on the wagon*

Sir, your seat is ready and waiting.

Why Messiah?

[TheButtonmen]

So obviously defending DN and his plan is the scummiest move there. We have:

Starbuck

She never defended his plan, you and SC have a really bad habit of adding details, not a particularly attractive habit really.

[TheButtonmen]

Also I feel the need to point out in big bold letters that

Starbuck is at L-1

.

I don't really care what you do with said information but I want to make it obvious so no one hammers and then acts confused.

[TheButtonmen]

Using meta to not want to vote.

VWD is far from along in that, I would point out D1 EK and SC as prime examples.

SC, post 184 wrote:
<--- is calling right now Starbuck scum with Deathnote. Write that down, keep it safe, check it on reveal.

...Really? When she's only made one post (not counting her "I'll post later" post)? I had a firmly neutral read on 183.

Now that DN is scum what happens if starbuck is scum with this note VMD?

What are you saying here? That because DN was scum we follow SC?

[TheButtonmen]

In closing to my ever so truncated batch of posts:

If the hammer falls, no one is getting imprinted again. I'm well aware some of you think thats a feature, I personally would regard it as a bug. I don't want our first experiance with imprints to be when we are close to the wire numbers wise.

[TheButtonmen]

Starbuck imprinting farside is totally weird.

post 580 she says nothing about farside except welcome and states her at the end of the post as the person she most wants to imprint. Reason?

Her other posts have a little QFT over farside's SC-hatred. Starbuck says she doesn't like farside's 565.

Then she imprints farside.

It doesn't seem like enough of a reason to imprint someone, especially when she doesn't only have positive things to say about farside.

-Points up at post 597 by Starbuck addressing that exact issue-

[TheButtonmen]

So?

Her defense is she feels farside is pro-town.

Still no compelling reason.

Her imprinting someone she feels is pro-town is weird?

[TheButtonmen]

buttonmen, answer my 601

It's a statement of your opinon not a question, what do you want answered?

[TheButtonmen]

unvote, vote: Starbuck

Her "I don't see where I defended him" defense isn't very persuasive.

...Did you read her posts yourself or just what SC / Elvis said about them?

[TheButtonmen]

I'd love to hear your thoughts on what she did to defended him that no one else did.

[TheButtonmen]

She did quite a few things to defend him that no one else did, such as referring to ek's original DN vote as opportunistic, calling SC's reaction overaggressive or stating "I could see where deathnote was coming from".(The former two being chainsaw defense as opposed to simply defending him)

A) ek's original DN vote as opportunistic - Not exactly a ringing defense.

B) calling SC's reaction overaggressive - ...Did you read his reaction? I also called it overagressive.

C) Do you know what's cool? Quoting entire the whole sentence rather then just a chunk of it. Also quoting things she actually said would be nice. If they didn't say it don't put it in quote marks, that's again misrepresentation.

I can see where DeathNote was coming from, especially prior to mod clarifications, but there is just too much that we don't know. Also, with all 4 of the rogues receiving an imprint, it's like we'd be setting ourselves up for failure

[TheButtonmen]

he was making it so that there was imprints this time rather then sudden hammer no imprint

[TheButtonmen]

Also I'm fairly certain either SC or EK is scum, I'm leaning towards SC Thoughts?

[TheButtonmen]

People I might vote to imprint are:

Plum
Messiah
Buttons
VMD
Pug

The rest I would probably not vote to imprint.

Why Plum? What has she done other then lurk then posts wall's of texts that don;t related to the current game, rather are a summary of what happned several pages ago. Anyone could seem town if they did that.

[TheButtonmen]

Starbuck - you seem to really take this hard and to be honest, I thought a lot of your catchup post was AtE from someone desperate.

AtE meaning?

[TheButtonmen]

To be honest, Starbuck, I'll learn that we were right about one scum and wrong about another and that's better than random chance.

You need to allow people to be wrong.

You need to allow people to have other opinions then your own.

[TheButtonmen]

It's not you getting it wrong or that it's personal, your play style is just abrasive and annoying as all hell. If both you and EK are town I'm pretty sure I avoid games with both of you in them in the future.

[TheButtonmen]

Starbuck, if you're town you should be trying to tell us who you think is scum before the lynch scene is posted.

-points at Starbucks giant wall's of text in Post #638 AND Post #644-

She did?

[TheButtonmen]

So I'm fairly certain one or two of the following three are scum; EK, SC and Messiah. Thoughts?

Also I'm wondering is Plum fell down a hole or is just active lurking like a champ.

Now for clerical work

Imprint: TheButtonmen

[TheButtonmen]

Also really unhappy about the railroaded lynch on Starbuck yesterday, scum just took advantage of her VL/A to lynch a towny. This time could we at least get the day to last long enough for everyone to post before putting someone up a tree.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm fully aware that buttonmen tried that breaking strategy stuff, but the rest of his play is scummy to me. I don't like the way he voted SC the first part of yesterday, arguing SC's hammer was bad because it prevented imprints.

....I want you to show me a single quote where I argue against lynching SC, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I've been pushing for his lynch the hardest.

Also he didn't seem very present during the starbuck lynch or fighting it very hard, but now he's quick to call the lynch a railroad.

Wow, Even more misrepresentation this time it's easy to address though, the Starbuck wagon got going page 24, since then I've posted multiple times on each page. Quite a few of them were pointing out flaws in your "case" and defending Starbuck. So I'm going to have to call bullshit on that statment.

[TheButtonmen]

The other red flag for VMD is when she asked what happens if Starbuck flips town. It's one of those questions that looks like planning her position in advance and felt weird at the time.

Or it may have been because you were trying to plan out the towns actions like 3 steps in advance all working with the assumption that 'Buck was scum.

I think Limerickx's spot is the most suspicious. Second last on the Deathnote wagon and not voting on D2.

I see not voting D2 is a nulltell, you may have noticed it ended super fast due to several people railraoding a lynch through. Also if Limrick is suspicous for that why isn't Plum even more suspicous for adding no content and voting for 'Buck.

[TheButtonmen]

messiah: One last question. Why did you hammer starbuck when no imprints had occurred?

Imprints had slipped my mind, again. Just as they did when I put DN at L-1 on D1 before Reck reminded me.

In closing to my ever so truncated batch of posts:

If the hammer falls, no one is getting imprinted again. I'm well aware some of you think thats a feature, I personally would regard it as a bug. I don't want our first experiance with imprints to be when we are close to the wire numbers wise.

Agian your making me doubt you actually read the thread. I made a stand alone post reminding people of that fact.

That stand alone post got a response from Elvis about it and mentioned in other posts.

[TheButtonmen]

Also he didn't seem very present during the starbuck lynch or fighting it very hard, but now he's quick to call the lynch a railroad.

Wow, Even more misrepresentation this time it's easy to address though, the Starbuck wagon got going page 24, since then I've posted multiple times on each page. Quite a few of them were pointing out flaws in your "case" and defending Starbuck. So I'm going to have to call bullshit on that statment.

You already tried to push this I called it a railroad and didn't try to oppose it angle.

It would be great if you stop ignoring posts that don't support what your pushing.

[TheButtonmen]

...elvis is town, if you ask me.

We need to imprint people, otherwise we're just playing a nightless vanilla game.

I'll ask, why do you feel she is town and do what do you think about the connection to SC?

[TheButtonmen]

So you think both her and SC are town then?

[TheButtonmen]

Mod: When someone is imprinted do they receive notification about their ability during the day or at night?

Imprints will be received at the end of the day, when the lynch scene is posted.

@Mod

- Do you mean to say that imprints are given out publicly or that it is announced who gets them publicaly and they get them via PM?

[TheButtonmen]

You are only voting to imprint yourself. Can you talk about why you aren't voting to imprint anyone else?

I had been waiting until I could read everyones thoughts / interactions before voting to imprint.

Can you talk about anyone you suspect besides SC (and I guess, me)?

As I said at the start of the day, I'm fairly certain one of Messiah, SC or Elvis are scum, maybe two of them. I'm suspcious of plum and am curious as to why people keep putting her on their town lists.

Can you talk about what sort of strategy you want to follow? Because you're the only one close to getting an imprint. Do you think you should be the only one with an imprint? Should we make more?

I still think 2 imprint / 1 lynch is best. However I don't think we should ever have more then 2-3 people imprinted as it gives us too big a possible pool of scum if NK's start.

[TheButtonmen]

EBWOP: By "However I don't think we should ever have more then 2-3 people imprinted as it gives us too big a possible pool of scum if NK's start. " I mean in total, like at most over the course of the game we imprint 2-3 people.

[TheButtonmen]

@Everyone - Do you think that plum posting in her other games but not here is a null or scum tell?

[TheButtonmen]

Yo, I'm still alive Christmas related activites is pretty much eating all my spare time, will resume posting late boxing day(ish)

[TheButtonmen]

Unvote

Vote: No lynch

Rereading to figure out who I feel best about imprinting

:Grumbles:

@ all the wall o' text posts

[TheButtonmen]

Before I place my imprint vote I'm wondering is

Knight of Cydonia

has any questions / theories or comment they want to share?

[TheButtonmen]

I can't really answer your question at the moment due to the two replacements this game day, until I see how they play / people interact with them.

[TheButtonmen]

Mcslixacwfepvbatlpalau.

For future reference.

Explain, Now.

[TheButtonmen]

Unvote, Vote: Serial Clergyman

Until I get a very clear and definitive explanation for that.

[TheButtonmen]

Oh Buttonman.. your threat didn't stop me from hamering DN, it didn't stop me from pushing Starbuck, what makes you think that your threat of leaving your vote on me (where it has resided almost all game) would make me explain that?

It'll come in due time.

No, see your going to claim it's some secret magical bullshit code in the future that some how when interpreted says whatever you want it to say and somehow clears you and Elvis, you pulled the shit logic / plans before.

I hope so very very much I get Vig powers tonight.

[TheButtonmen]

I'd barely accept that in a game with PR's; in one with none? Hell No.

[TheButtonmen]

Buttonman - your level of abject horror at my play continues to amuse. Could you explain for me exactly what dsatardly plan I've cooked up?

No, see your going to claim it's some secret magical bullshit code in the future that some how when interpreted says whatever you want it to say and somehow clears you and Elvis, you pulled the shit logic / plans before.

I hope so very very much I get Vig powers tonight.

[TheButtonmen]

Yes, I did read that. What I'm asking is which magical bullshit codes have I pulled before?

You'll also note that elvis moved to clear me, not vice versa.

No, see your going to claim it's some secret magical bullshit code in the future that some how when interpreted says whatever you want it to say and somehow clears you and Elvis,

you pulled the shit logic / plans before.

[TheButtonmen]

OK, if you're going to be irritating

Conciseness is protown.

[TheButtonmen]

...You want me to explain to you why blatant buddying D1 is bad?

[TheButtonmen]

I am struggling my way through this game. You fuckers love to theory-bullshit your way into walls of text. Page 16 right now. There will be a post happening soon. I want to do it all in one shot.

I'm prepared to beg that you break it down, there's already enough wall o'texts we don't need more.

[TheButtonmen]

if you're torn on me, why vote for DN, who I was pushing, Starbuck, who I was pushing, and now Reck, who I've been pushing?

Are you claiming to be formed the DN wagon and are you claiming to be the one forming a Reck wagon?

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Claiming to have formed the DN wagon and are you also claiming to be the one forming a Reck wagon?

[TheButtonmen]

Unvote; Vote: No Lynch

Now that Serial has put a meaning to the code.

[TheButtonmen]

And how do you feel about xRECKONERx imprint-hammering TheButtonmen?

I personally feel concerned..........it gives me pause.


As for trying to get a read on my and how I play good luck with that SC I am a random, emotionally, crazy, scum hunting female. I'm starting to think only I see obvious things, point them out and just get ignored.
*sigh*

Prexisting concerns about me or concerns that were raised when someone you find scummy hammered me?

[TheButtonmen]

And even then - we all know who button man would use any ability on. It's not really a risk to the scum team because when button gets his ability it'll be me he targets.

We do?

[TheButtonmen]

@ Farside

; Ask me a question.

[TheButtonmen]

In no particular order;

Serial or Elvis, their interactions right from the very start were off and when pressured they have doubled down and full out super buddied. I find both misrepresent / exagerate a fair amount and have some kind of expectation that town is/should be following them. However at the moment I think only 1 of them is scum.

Plum was high on my list for lurking, dropping a summery then lurking and rinse and repeat. This allowed her to get by without interacting with the rest of the town. She was actually my planned target tonight if I got an investigative role. However her requesting a replacment has scrubbed that, her replacment will be recieving some carried over suspcioun though.

XReckonerX is someone I'm finding that while I don't fully agree with all the points being made agianst him. I'm becoming more curious as to his responses as time goes on.

As for the investigative role (though that's 2 questions not 1); As i previously mentioned the target I was planning to investiagte should I get that ability was Plum who is being replaced; at this point (and its fluid at the moment) I would probably investiagte Pug89 as I'm finding I can't get a read on him or Elvis because I'm 50 / 50 on if she is scum or not.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Serial,

Yes I'd vig you but there's a lot more power roles then vig.

@ Farside

; How do you feel this being nightless is affecting your ability to scumhunt and who do you feel the least sure on at the moment (As in can't decide if they are town or scum)?

[TheButtonmen]

@ Serial

the fact that you put the effort into removing the name from quotes both perplexes and annoys me.

[TheButtonmen]

Has anybody gotten back to me with why they think 'buddying' with someone you view to be town is problematic? I'm still awaiting any form of answer..

Short Form: It's scummy.

Slightly Longer Form: There's no advantage to doing it as town, while there is an advantage to doing it as scum.

Long Form: We aren't here to teach you to play mafia, if your so curious at to why people dislike blatant buddying D1 I'd direct you to MD Forum or the Wiki.

[TheButtonmen]

You might want to check your sample size there. I know many, many excellent players who have no problem with this at all.

Links or it didn't happen.

[TheButtonmen]

Shooting is investigating.

[TheButtonmen]

So here we have buttonmen still saying DN is not his top suspect. Being really wishy-washy about DN, not encouraging DN's lynch at all. Yet after DN is hammerer, and BEFORE the flip is revealed, buttonmen is quick to make sure that if DN flips scum we not give SC in credit.

Why would SC get credit for that hammer? Do you consider hammering scum a towntell?

[TheButtonmen]

When did I say I didn't want DN lynched? I did want to finish the discussion regrading imprints so that it didn't interfer with the proceeding days. The quote clearly shows that so I'm curious as to what your tyring to say with it?

[TheButtonmen]

You use a night action to determine their alignment at the start of the next day. How is that not investigating?

[TheButtonmen]

Disagree at this time. How do you prove who killed and why would you want to lynch a player that the majority of players thinks is town for policy reasons? Think they are scum and make a case / reexamine interactions, yes. Policy lynch, no.

[TheButtonmen]

You have a fair amount of interaction with DN day1, but it's all pretty nice to him and trying to draw him out and explain himself

Yes I drew him out and made him explain himself, that’s scummy how? I question the pretty nice to him part though considering I badgered him, censoreswore at him. Insulted his plan and implied he was playing badly.

you never talk about him as scum until you say that SC is bussing DN. Isn't that a little backwards? If you think SC is scum bussing DN scum, you should be all for that, and all in favor of lynching DN, but you wanted SC dead first. DN only became scum to you when you could connect him to SC by shouting buss.

Shocking, Elvis saying things that a simple ISO can disprove.
First of all I didn’t start saying Serial was scummy when he bus’ed DN, secondly I called DN play scummy, his plan antitown and called him on his “Oh woe is me it’s a policy lynch act” so this assertion you keep making that I found DN to be town is flawed.

[TheButtonmen]

Elvis your attacking over something that never happened again. Please point out where I claimed to have said that DN was scum?

I called DN play scummy, his plan antitown and called him on his “Oh woe is me it’s a policy lynch act” so this assertion you keep making that I found DN to be town is flawed.

Is what i said, Now your claiming that I flat out said DN was scum and demanding I back it up. Well considering I didn't claim to have said that, once again I'm thinking your purposfully misrepping people.

[TheButtonmen]

Okay, wut? I'm attacking "over something that never actually happened"?? "AGAIN"?? Back that shit up, yo.

You back it up, where did I claim to have said DN was scum?

[TheButtonmen]

WHEN YOU SAID SC WAS BUSSING DN, THAT MEANS YOU ARE CALLING BOTH OF THEM SCUM.

Err except that never happend?

And SC if DN is scum don't even try to pull the bullshit logic "oh look he's scum so that means I'm / Elvis is town"

Is what I said.

[TheButtonmen]

I personally would like to do a second imprint, if only because I would feel a lot more at ease about not possibly being manipulated in some way. I also think that the extra risk of a second imprint is worth the reward, as many roles relate to other PRs (tracker being the most relevant.)

Thoughts?

Agreed.

[TheButtonmen]

All of thoses (Please note their sequencial order):

Were directed at Serial after he posted this,

I have a suggestion. Lynch DN, imprint me. If I'm wrong, and he's town, I'll be the next lynch, and I'll tell you all what my power was and where I used it and what I found. If I'm right, we lynch Starbuck and imprint me and elvis.

Thoughts?

If you can't see how that made me suspcious then I can't really help you.

Now I direct you to the post you already quoted half of;

WHEN YOU SAID SC WAS BUSSING DN, THAT MEANS YOU ARE CALLING BOTH OF THEM SCUM.

Err except that never happend?

And SC if DN is scum don't even try to pull the bullshit logic "oh look he's scum so that means I'm / Elvis is town"

Is what I said.

Please note what I said after he hammered. Now if your accusing me of not being 100% sure that DN was scum, then your correct. However I don't see why that's a point against me.

[TheButtonmen]

@Reck

; when you get back, any theories, comments, question? Recently your posts have been more reactionary in nature and I'm curious as to if theres something you feel we are missing?

[TheButtonmen]

@Serial

; What are your top scum suspects (with a brief blurb as to why if you wouldnt mind) and who would you want investigated?

[TheButtonmen]

BTW, do you really think buttonmen is town? Reading his MD contributions and such he does strike me as quite sure of himself for a relative newbie. Do you think it is just his arrogance making him say "shooting is investigating" and sticking to it like he knows what he's talking about?

My experiance with mafia is in the offline variety, please note what the MD topics are about, the purely online parts of MS.

As for my thoughts on the buddying, I agree with supporting your town reads but you two did it far to early and agressivly for my comfort and you responded to pressure on it by seemingly doubling down.

@ Socrates

; I'm almost positive that negative effects can be attached to imprinting process.

[TheButtonmen]

Seven.

[TheButtonmen]

Elvis who would you investistigate?

[TheButtonmen]

And why?

[TheButtonmen]

@ Socrates; Have you finished your read through?

[TheButtonmen]

I'm thinking we should possibly look to no lynch sooner rather than later. I'm worried knowing we won't lynch today is messing our information up.

Is there some deadline I'm unaware of? Are you in a hurry for some reason?

Someone needs to answers socrates questions 1075. I would but I feel like under crap these past few days and all I want to do is go back to sleep.

Pressure is cranked way back due to knowing no-ones going up a rope which means we get less information from today, is how I read that.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm thinking we should possibly look to no lynch sooner rather than later. I'm worried knowing we won't lynch today is messing our information up.

Is there some deadline I'm unaware of? Are you in a hurry for some reason?

Someone needs to answers socrates questions 1075. I would but I feel like under crap these past few days and all I want to do is go back to sleep.

Pressure is cranked way back due to knowing no-ones going up a rope which means we get less information from today, is how I read that.

I find myself agreeing with this, there's not enough pressure on people today however I also don't want to be the only one imprinted. Doing a re-read of certian exchanges and a ISO; will probably do something crazy tommorow.

[TheButtonmen]

*places a call*

Hello hell?
Yay this is Heather I was wondering........Well did hell freeze today?

(pause)

okay just had to check.

Sorry I'm think thats a lingering freeze from the previous few days when I agreed with SC on a couple of points.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Serial

; The logic your suggesting makes no sense; Questioning people your unsure of isn't a bad thing, it forces them to publicly state things and the more scum lies the better as it helps you catch them.

[TheButtonmen]

I find myself agreeing with this, there's not enough pressure on people today however I also don't want to be the only one imprinted. Doing a re-read of certian exchanges and a ISO; will probably do something crazy tommorow.

Where was the craziness?!?!?

Button, are you planning on casting any more imprint votes? Seeing as you've been imprinted, I think people would be especially interested as to who you choose to vote a second imprint on.

We had three replacements today; I've been sitting back and seeing what they are bringing to the table and what they bring up along with how they interact with the town as that many replacments really disturbs my read on certian people.

[TheButtonmen]

The last replacement joined almost a week ago! Certainly you've seen SOMETHING from SOMEONE during this time.

I'm inclined to agree with E_K on this. I voted you for an imprint, but the lack of content since then is uncomforting.

I've seen many somethings, however I'm currently waiting for socreates to catch up in his read and this weekend as classes started this week.

[TheButtonmen]

The last replacement joined almost a week ago! Certainly you've seen SOMETHING from SOMEONE during this time.

I'm inclined to agree with E_K on this. I voted you for an imprint, but the lack of content since then is uncomforting.

I've seen many somethings, however I'm currently waiting for socreates to catch up in his read and this weekend as classes started this week.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
An opinion at this point about each of the players is not unheard of and should not be like pulling teeth.

16 hours of workshops, 4 hours of orientation + classes. I don't have the time to put together a summary post at the moment, this week has had other concerns.

[TheButtonmen]

For those clamoring for a brief summary of my thoughts; if you want longer then this you’re going to have to wait 24-36 hours.

Serial Clergyman; It should be clear I’m not his biggest fan by this point. Every time I try to give him the benefit of the doubt he breaks out more terrible terribly insane and inane logic and acts in ways that seem consistently scummy to me. However I’m no longer as convinced he is scum.

CrashTextDummie; I like the cut of his jib, he's posted quality and quantity, hope to see more from him; however he is working under the burden of my read on Messiah. Though he is quickly reversing it.

Limerickx; I’m going imprint hammer at the end of this post.

Socrates; No comment at this time.

xRECKONERx; Don’t want to see him get an imprint at the moment, I find
my read of him constantly getting adjusted downwards as time goes on.

farside22; I have nothing strikingly bad to say about farside22. Leaning town on her.

Pug89; I have nothing strikingly bad to say about Pug89. However I’d love to hear more from him, to me he’s really sitting back.

Knight of Cydonia; I don’t think he’s scum at this moment, but I'd also prefer him not to get an imprint at this time.

elvis_knits; She’s the reason I keep giving Serial a second chance as she set’s off my scummdar like no one else in this game and I’m fairly certain only one of the super buddies is scum. I think she’s scum and don’t want her to get an imprint.

Imprint: Limerickx

[TheButtonmen]

So we just had two player imprint limerick in two posts with no reasoning greater than "I get a town read" and "I'm going to imprint hammer him."

For those clamoring for a brief summary of my thoughts; if you want longer then this you’re going to have to wait 24-36 hours

You were the one who wanted a brief blurb, agian more detailed thoughts in 24-36 hour, right now I'm about half way through best practise guidelines for postpartum assessments and the assessment of the pediatric client.

[TheButtonmen]

Well, I've never liked buttonmen the entire game but was thinking he was town for the breaking strategy. A number of the scummy things about him have happend since he was imprinted, like him stringing us along has gotten more tiresome. Him saying that "nobody is getting pressured today this is bad" while he doesn't pressure anyone. Which is like saying "hey guys why don't you keep fighting with each other."

I'm thinking we should possibly look to no lynch sooner rather than later. I'm worried knowing we won't lynch today is messing our information up.

Is there some deadline I'm unaware of? Are you in a hurry for some reason?

Pressure is cranked way back due to knowing no-ones going up a rope which means we get less information from today, is how I read that.

Queston; If it's scummy when you thought I put the idea out there; is it still scummy when your boy Serial is the one who put it out there?

[TheButtonmen]

I’m against it not because of any suspicion of Farside or distrust of SC but because I feel three is too many imprints. With two there is the threat of a tracker to keep people honest with three even if there is a tracker there’s only a 50/50 chance of being tracked. Also with three imprinties you run the risk of scum getting a NK and; 7-3 (now) NK down to 6-3, mislynch (5-3) and NK down to (4-3) at which point it’s LyLo with 2 possible suspects.

[TheButtonmen]

I got a gun, which I holstered.

[TheButtonmen]

If we had imprinted two I would have shot Elvis, with three imprints vigging was too much of a risk.

[TheButtonmen]

7-3 -> NK from scum + Misvig -> 5-3 -> Mislynch + NK -> 3-3 = Town loses

If Scum got a NK and I misvigged it was LyLo with 3 suspects. As such due to the 3 imprints I wasn't willing to risk taking the shot as my scum read on Elvis is about 65-75%.

With 2 imprints, if there's a NK I didn't do I knew who was scum, three removed that certainty. Without that certainty risking putting it at Lylo wasn't something I was comfortable with.

[TheButtonmen]

If we had imprinted two I would have shot Elvis, with three imprints vigging was too much of a risk.

Also why would you have shot at EK when all your post during day 3 was about shooting SC.

Except they weren't?

elvis_knits; She’s the reason I keep giving Serial a second chance as she set’s off my scummdar like no one else in this game and I’m fairly certain only one of the super buddies is scum. I think she’s scum

[TheButtonmen]

Also please explain how you can hold a gun with this in the mod rules:

- At the end of each day,

all imprints received on the previous day by ordinary actives will be erased

. However, due to their resistance to the mindwiping procedure, rogue actives will retain all imprints indefinitely.

I'm calling BS

Error in communication here; When I said:

I got a gun, which I holstered.

What I meant was I got imprinted with the vig ability (given a gun) which I chose not to use (put the gun in the holster rather then fire).

[TheButtonmen]

So you're saying that you were worried that one or both of he other imprintees are scum AND would roll a killing role AND would use it.

No I'm saying the risk that one of the imprintees was scum and got a NK which would lose to a probable town loss vs the rewards of shooting (65-75% read of scum on Elvis) wasn't a profitable trade off in these circumstances.

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: Which would

Lead

to a probable town loss.

[TheButtonmen]

Farside's keeping her imprint a secret just got a lot more intresting, as she A)Has tracker/watcher data that proves someone just lied or she B) had no reason to want to go last. (See her comment about catching one of us lying.)

[TheButtonmen]

I was imprinted with Mcpaltp from Mafia 71

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6490

(Aside: How do you do that cool make a word a link thing?)

[TheButtonmen]

For me, the value in lynching buttonman has just gotten significantly higher, because I don't like his flavour and the fact he didn't vig despite saying he would

You think I'm scummy because of how I said I didn't shoot? Also I said i would vig back when it was two imprints (see my above post for explination) and I quite clearly that Elvis was my top scum choice, why would I shoot anyone other then my possible scum choice?

[TheButtonmen]

EBYOP: for epic spell checking error.

You think I'm scummy because of how I said I didn't shoot? Also I said i would vig back when it was two imprints (see my above post for explanation) and I said quite clearly that Elvis was my top scum choice, why would I shoot anyone other then my top possible scum choice?

[TheButtonmen]

This is a fair point, unless he just shot me and is now lying about target.

Why would I lie about having shot you? You read the previous days, did I at anytime try to disguise my intentions?

[TheButtonmen]

Her whole "I wanna claim last to make sure people claim the correct flavor" thing was pro-town. Not sure I buy Button's whole "I got a vig" but forgetting to claim what game he was from till later.

Her waiting to claim thing I actually see as slighty scummy as what she says is;

I wanted to see if someone would fake claim their imprint and how far that lie would go.

Yet she claimed Doc, How would she know if someone fake claimed? I see her going last as giving her the chance to see the other two claims and then claim something that she can't be called on. As both other imprints were for Vig I'm wondering if everyone who got imprinted last night got the same imprint.

As for the second part I wanted to keep what game/person I was a secret until other people had claimed as I was curious to see if there was a pattern in the names / games / game results / fate of the imprinting player and so on.

[TheButtonmen]

Anyone have any bright ideas?

Lynch Elvis or Farside?

[TheButtonmen]

lynching elvis or farside is on the opposite of the spectrum from where bright ideas lay.

I've had my scum view of reck faded for some reason. Maybe I'm falling for his disaffected style but I'm not really sure of him being scum. KoC is a decent choice but for me it'd essentially be a policy lynch. One of the vigs is a safe lynch given if they're townies it's like lynching a townie but if they're scum it's like lynching killer scum.

Ah but the Vigs were honest about their roles. The way Farside handled her claim makes me wonder if she also got a vig role and is hiding it.