890: Cults of Darkness and Shadow - Game over!

[Faraday]

/confirm.

[Faraday]

Incant Snow Bunny

[Faraday]

Random votes are a bad idea. And people should stop them. The fact that you can't "Unincant" means that it's dangerous to get a large amount of ingenuine votes going.

Not really. With the number of unincant's @ anywhere above 7 there's no real problem with it. And when it goes below this number like 21 days have passed so we should be deciding on a lynch by that time anyway.

My next thought is that we should all be careful to avoid interpreting "pro-town" behaviour as actually town, since all the scum are scum hunting genuinely as well.

No. Scum even in multi scum set-ups are still scum. having played multi-scum it's slightly easier to scum-hunt alright but you're still trying to push a scum agenda wherever possible so tells are still dropped. It does mean that pushing a lynch on scum doesn't mean town, but town tells shouldn't be dismissed.

I'm not FoSing Faraday or Dis because I believe that they were just trying the usual RVS.

My vote really wasn't random at all. I thought Snow_Bunny's fos was a load of BS.

So Datadanne, are you just somebody who reads everything or was that link in your inbox? Tempted to incant you right now...

What is this. Reading the first post isn't scummy.

[Faraday]

it might eventually create a double or even triple lynch.

Say what? My reading of the rules are that the point at which someone is lynched decreases every 3 days. So you need 12 incants for the first 3 days, 11 for the next 3 etc etc. So I don't know how you can get multiple lynches out of it?

If there was 2 people on 5 votes each at the end of that period where 6 incants are needed they'd both be lynched come the next period as far as I understand it.

If that makes sense.

[Faraday]

That seems possible, actually. Though I can see a problem or 2 in practise, I think.

[Faraday]

Oh and yeah, 4/4 scum groups are stupidly unbalanced.

3/3 is possible I *guess* but less likely, and hella swingy. We're very likely looking @ 2/2. Seems the most balanced to me.

[Faraday]

My vote really wasn't random at all. I thought Snow_Bunny's fos was a load of BS.

Then explain yourself when you vote. Voting without explanation is scummy.

Why?

[Faraday]

Yeah, it's definitely dangerous to have a good hard think about how this game might be different to a standard mafia game.
It's poisonous indeed to clearly state my views so that if I then change my behaviour it's clear that I'm acting out of character.

Oh, I'm certainly scummy.

Don't like this.

[Faraday]

Why?

Because it's important for town to understand your motivations so you can be held to account by them, rather than enable you to ascribe motivations to them later. Scum are revealed by their reasoning, so we need to see yours.

What about if I wanted to see how Sno_bunny reacted to my unexplained votes? Do you also not think it's possible to discenr if someone is making up stuff after their vote, as I certaintly do. Looking at unexplained votes being automatically scummy is bad. Everything has a use.

And what don't you like about my statement? Transparency of opinion is the crux of a good town game.

I don't like the way you brushed off the attack w/ sarcasm.

[Faraday]

Well I've already explained my thoughts on each of his points, but fine, I'll do it again.

Yeh and I'd have liked to have seen that the first time.

Chaco why would possibly ever want to NL the first day? I read the rules, and since a NL is a bad idea today, then obviously I had no real need to hold my vote.

[Faraday]

I do not think that was a good move in the slightest, and a No Lynch may not occur since you have done so

Huh? I assumed you were reffering to the day, doesn't matter anyway, since you clarified I guess.

[Faraday]

I'm also against people just voting without saying anything else, I don't care what your secret plan is Fara, it still looks scummy. Anybody, scum or town, will ask you the same question "why did you vote for me" it reveals nothing, but makes us harder to hold you to account.

Tells can be given off in response to pressure. When someone votes for someone without a reason the accused may wonder why, they may panic or may continue to act in a scummy way. The fact you believe all unexplained votes to be scummy is a tad naive, and there very very useful as far as I'm concerned. I'm not however interested in arguing mafia theory, but suffice to say I'll use my vote as I feel is best.

[Faraday]

Also, Fara, I would like to hear, do you agree/disagree with my thoughts on

Random bandwagons being bad
Power roles being evident of being "pro town" and thus less trustworthy
Pro town tells being significantly less helpful compared to scum tells in this game as opposed to normal games.

In fact, I would like to hear from other people on these points as well.

In general? No. here? probably but there's only been 1 random vote to my knowledge so far, so that's a moot point.
Power roles aren't an indication of being pro-town neccessarily. Obviously I won't take a claim at face value anyway.
Disagree with this, I don't think they'll be 'significantly' less helpful, maybe slightly less but I'll probably still trust town reads.

[Faraday]

Nice strawman.

[Faraday]

I don't believe you couldn't understand what he said the first time, phrasing it in the form of a question may look nicer and all but it's still a lot of word twisting to even arrive at that question.

[Faraday]

I'm also against people just voting without saying anything else, I don't care what your secret plan is Fara, it still looks scummy. Anybody, scum or town, will ask you the same question "why did you vote for me" it reveals nothing, but makes us harder to hold you to account.

Tells can be given off in response to pressure. When someone votes for someone without a reason the accused may wonder why, they may panic or may continue to act in a scummy way. The fact you believe all unexplained votes to be scummy is a tad naive, and there very very useful as far as I'm concerned. I'm not however interested in arguing mafia theory, but suffice to say I'll use my vote as I feel is best.

So you are still claiming that your vote within an hour of the game going live was not a mistaken random vote, but actually had a reason? I'm not buying this. It was a random vote and there is no way you could have expected it to elicit a reaction with meaning. If you think it did, explain it to us, otherwise admit it was a random vote.

Yes it had a reason.
I don't care if you buy it or not.
How the fuck could you possibly know what I was expecting? You a mind reader.
Obviously it didn't, but that didn't mean it couldn't have elicited a reaction.

Please state why I would pretend a random vote was not random.
Then since you're questioning me on it tell me why it's scummy.

[Faraday]

hey datadanne, who do you think is scum?

[Faraday]

same question to pretty much everyone who isn't incanting/hasn't made their position clear.

[Faraday]

Seems I certainly got a reaction from you, and I didn't even have to incant you!

Yeah I hate people asking me retarded questions, SORRY!

Please state why I would pretend a random vote was not random.
Then since you're questioning me on it tell me why it's scummy.

Uhh, your first question is exactly what I am asking you. I'll answer your second question when you answer mine[/quote]
l2read.

[Faraday]

Seems I certainly got a reaction from you, and I didn't even have to incant you!

Yeah I hate people asking me retarded questions, SORRY!

Please state why I would pretend a random vote was not random.
Then since you're questioning me on it tell me why it's scummy.

Uhh, your first question is exactly what I am asking you. I'll answer your second question when you answer mine

l2read


fix'd the tags

[Faraday]

to elaborate on you needing to l2read, I answered the question already by saying it wasn't a random vote.

[Faraday]

I didn't call you any names, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.
Perhaps you could quote them.


--------

You've yet to explain my motivation for pretending a random vote wasn't random. Answer my question.

[Faraday]

to elaborate on you needing to l2read, I answered the question already by saying it wasn't a random vote.

Yeah, I know you said that. I asked you how in the fuck you could claim that a vote in a game that was LESS THAN AN HOUR OLD could be anything but random, dipshit.

(cursing and name-calling added in an attempt to converse at your level)

Why does the length the game has been going on matter? Seriously are you saying I can't have a non random reason for a vote after an hour? Why? That's absolutely laughable.


3rd time asking, explain what I would gain by doing this.

[Faraday]

Also; I've already given my reason as to why my vote wasn't random, so I'm not sure why you're asking HOW IT COULD BE NON RANDOM AFTER AN HOUR, when I've explained.


Perhaps you need to explain why I'd pretend a random vote is non-random though.

[Faraday]

Ok, Faraday, I owe you an apology. I apparently do need to learn to read because I was looking at DisCode's first post in ISO when I thought I was looking at yours. That's what I get for having 4 tabs open in the same game.

What? I'll use 'Fuck' and stuff like that, but I wasn't insulting you at all. No need to apoloigise really, I don't mind.

I find your line of questioning odd though. I still want an answer to my question, eventually.

[Faraday]

Okay, so it looks like I'm going to be the first lynch. Which is a shame.

It sure is. But seriously what's the point of saying this?

3)

My Vig - Mafia comment

- This has been taken massively out of context by DisCode. I was saying that as far as each cult is concerned, the other cult is basically a Vig who doesn't care if they miss.

You said:"

Each scum team is effectively a vigilantee who doesn't care if they miss.

" You don't mention the as far as the other cult is concerned, and it's also not really implied here either.

Serial Clergyman things that I'm doing this to remove votes and thus remove pressure. I think the same thing can be achieved with FOSing, and , as I've said above, as the deadlines trickle by, having 12 votes lying around starts to become a serious issue, because after someone has responded well (i.e. as town) to the pressure, the vote needs to go somewhere.

Yeah. I don't think the same thing can be achieved by FOS'ing, if I think someone is scum I'll Incant them for the most part. If they respond well I should always have a second suspect to incant, I don't like not voting anyway, especially lately, so imo it's not a problem with my vote going somewhere.

5)

Controlling future lynches

- <snip>

Yeh, there's no need to discuss this now though. Imo there should be no 'set play' everything is situational.

Since then I have been trying to explain my concerns, but I've also been making a few comments here and there on others. So that's a slight straw man by SC there. He's claiming that I'm not doing anything that is hurtful to scum, I disagree, I think my strategies hurt scum quite a lot, but thats the overall argument, not just one for this point. I've also been generating lots of discussion, if I'm lynched,

and when I come up as town,

I'll have generated pages of people disagreeing with certain points of my ideas. Hopefully that will help.

Bolded is again re-emphasising your townieness, I dislike statements like this, in general.

7)

My dislike of using town tells

- <snip>

Seems partially a playstyle difference in someways, but it feels the way you went about this is wrong/scummy, it's like you're trying to shut down the use of people's town-tells, and town-tells are something I think are as effective, and more-so sometimes, as scum-tells.

8)

My question the GM as to whether there were 4 cult on each team

- <snip>

Meh, not really scummy to me, too much. Just seems a silly thing to ask.

Basically four people keep showing up to really argue against my points. DisCode, Starttransmission, Fara and SerialClergyman. Other people have agreed with them, but they're the main three of have answered my posts in length.

Why are you focusing your analysis on the people who have interacted negatively with you? Seems like you're ignoring everyone else.

Discode is looking very scummy.

Disagreed here.

Fara, I just don't like his play style, he doesn't give as much information as he does, claiming it's to "fake out" people. I think town should be transparent at all times, thus anybody who isn't transparent is scum. Fara seems to be posting a lot, but not really engaging in much, just defending his initial vote and disagreeing with me, less analysis than the other three.

I don't know what you mean by 'fake out'.
You seem to play in a very black and white way, I personally don't think it's right, or even good play to automatically say stuff like you've been saying. 'Unexplained votes = scummy' and 'anyone who isn't transparent is scum' are just generally false imo.

[Faraday]

Still very happy w/ my vote on Snow_Bunny btw.

[Faraday]

* Deathsauce needs to answer my question as to why I'd pass a random vote off as series.

*Seacore, how come you haven't asked for his reasons? I thought saying things w/o explanation was IYO, scummy? Yet you haven't questioned him on it at all and find him townish?

*Mipe's Mod vote is very odd. I don't even know what to think of it, it's a semi-open game, there's not gonne be a mod-player.

*Also you say I provide as little reasoning as possible, to my knowledge I've only done that once. You seem (and iirc Mipe too) seem to have taken it as a recurring theme in my posts, when it doesn't seem to be there.

*what is the flavour text comment talking about? I've legit no idea what you mean here, so clarify, please.

*Snow_Bunny, Data and Mipe need to provide more.

[Faraday]

series = serious.

[Faraday]

The flavour text is where you point out that you don't like how I say it's a shame that I'm going to be lynched and that if I'm lynched, when I flip town, etc. It seems a pointless thing to have a go at somebody about. I was thinking through a long post and I didn't stop and triple analyse each phrase, I just wrote it as I thought it. I can kind of see your point when people try to subtley put in suggestions that they are town, but I was too lime light for that to ever work. I half wrote that post from the point of view that I was going to be lynched and I wanted to contribute something before I died.

Okay to me flavour text = the text the mod provides to set the scene for the game, so that's why I was confused.

And the reason I point them out is that they're appeals to emotion, which I find scummy. It's also softly asserting your town for no real reason, as it doesn't help anyone,
And defeatism, obviously doesn't help anyone.

---

Post 132 is generally very horrible for a number of reasons.

He's obviously no commenting as he wants to keep as little information to hiomself as possible, plus there not really answer I'd expect him to answer, as it doesn't generally happen in any mafia game.

I've also no idea as to why you would possibly think the mod is a cultist. I don't even know if I find that scummy, it's just really, really weird.

----

Fair enough @ Deathsauce I'd misunderstood and thought you were mid-reading the insult, that makes more sense though actually.

136 by semioldguy is all quite correct, good catch by SC on noticing his lack of Mipe but I also kinda like his answer, so it's forgivable.

Chaco why is that a flimsy stance? It's pretty much my position, if it happens it happens, I think if we have 2 good candiates and can agree fair enough, and if not meh it's not a massive deal.

And yeah, 18n days is more than enough time to find a lynch. I abhor long days anyway.

----

Snow_Bunny's 146...

Magua -> town. Few posts, but they are good so far. His vote on mipe is noted.
star -> neutral, leaning town. A few good reading in general, though there's something in this post I don't like. Maybe is telling Seacore what to do in case of suspicious.
chaco -> scummy. Putting the idea no-lynch for future days in the table; his appeal of shrugging off the buddying just don't make it to me.
Seacore -> scummy. Among others, discrediting budding; his long post tries to say things but in the end nothing. However, his comments on the incants in play seem rather townish.
Faraday -> neutral, leaning scummy; the whole vote with reason no stated at the beginning of the game is scummy. Though something tells me he's town.
mipe -> scummy; question to the mod about last words of the cultist just stroke me as scum (apart from his general lack of comment, but well, I can say much either)
DisCode -> neutral, leaning town. Gut tells me is town, but I'm not sure.
DS -> neutral, not enough to get a read; though I didn't like his reaction towards DisCode's request. Too aggressive.
Semi -> Neutral, leaning towards scummy. Didn't like his last big post, we differ in many things, and I find scummy many of those.
Data -> Neutral, not enough to get a read.

Well, I guess that's all for now.

Mipe is looking quite scummy now, gut + that odd question. So, for now Incant: mipe. I'd also be happy with a Seacore lynch.

Too many neutrals here for me, basically takes very few definitive stances. Lots of neutrals.
Seacore is a second lynch choice despite having some townie points. Chaco has none of these and isn't her 2nd lynch choice. odd.

basically she doesn't seem to be sure on a lot. Her stance on me is perfect to show that. Neutral leaning scummy? Yet something tells her I'm town. Wow @ that whole bunch of nothing. I've no idea why there's any point to this if you've got so little positions, though I appreicate the contribution.

Seacore is fairly scummy, but I think Snow_Bunny's is at this point more likley to be scum.

[Faraday]

l/a (hopefully) the next few days, as I have an essay to do. So if I'm hear it means I'm procrastinating, which I shouldn't be doing

[Faraday]

Just a quick post.

I'd like to more information on what Mipe is talking about, as at the moment I don't really believe him, it seems very bastardly for a mod to have a semi-open set-up and not have all possible roles listed.

Snow_bunny needs MOAR.

[Faraday]

Should be back in full swing for the next few days, although my exams do start

Incant Chaco

, 181 is horribly scummy.

Snow: Do you think data is town or scum atm? Asking for clarity as I'm not 100% sure from your post.

I'd like for you to explain the scum++ point against me, and why it's scummy. I really don't understand why you're calling that scummy.

I still want Mipe to explain wtf he's doing. If he has information he should share it as far as I'm concerned, it'd certainly make his actions slightly more reasonable. At the moment all this set-up questions at the expense of scum-hunting is scummy.


Also note everyone is now incant, and remember you can't unincant at all, so bear this in mind.


SC your 186 is rather weak. If we were playing by normal rules it obviously wouldn't have happened. I see what you mean, but I don't understand why it's worrying, we're not playing by normal mechanics so it will obviously affect our behaviour.

I'll second Magua's questions as to what you mean by 'a lot' too. I'd imagine there are scum both on and off the wagon, but I can certaintly see why people would want to Incant Mipe.

Data still needs to post content, I'm not intending to let him skate by a whole day with absolutely nothing.

Here's a good question actually: Who do you think are NOT on the same team. Either one scum, one town, or two different scum. (You don't need to guess which)

There's no one I'd be happy to eliminate from being scum-buddies at the moment actually. I'm also not sure how helpful this question is, it's not really scummy but eh, I don't see the point of it.

[Faraday]

In fact I'd like data's thoughts on each player in the game so far, please.

Just a sentence or 2 on what you think of them.

[Faraday]

I love that idea.

It has all the advantages of a policy lynch but we don't waste a lynch soley on him.

[Faraday]

@mipe
What is your role name?
Don't partially reveal information to the town. That is scummy. It allows you to make stuff up later so that it fits your claim rather than having your actions fit your claim as the game goes on.

To be fair, that's just what he's done.

And second the role name question.

There are no secret mechanics.

I'm having a hard time getting past this.

QFT.

I'm in no rush to end the day, yet. I'm still hoping from something from Datadanne soon.

[Faraday]

It sounds like Mipe's scum partner is a Guardian, from reading between the lines.

I say that as I don't buy that claim at

all

.


The fact the the mod says no comment means he's not going to comment, jesus, it doesn't mean that's he hiding something.

And hidden roles in a semi-open game? IDK, as far as I'm concerned those are hidden mechanics.

[Faraday]

Because you've backed yourself into a corner with all these questions on the mechanics, and are trying to come up with a reason for them.

[Faraday]

Exams atm. Have a break after tomorrow to get something up hopefully.

Mod can you prod data

(think it's been a while)I still want a scum list before anything happens but a double lynch still seems like a v good idea to me.

[Faraday]

Mod: Please replace me.

Or, Im going to die anyway, So why bother?

Maybe if you contributed to the fucking game it wouldn't happen.


Also here, gonna catch up now but that post stood out.

[Faraday]

I don't like startransmission's 228. Why are you in a hurry to lynch someone? This gave me a bad vibe.

Why? What's really scummy about him wanting to lynch someone everyone has decided is obvscum.

I don't think he will be entirely useless nor do I think he will be impossible to read. .

Eh, in my experience both of these are actually the case. The only reason he wasn't lynched in SC's bastard game was b/c he claimed a confirmable role. He also played awesome with it, but his day game was ridiculously bad.

Because you are scum, probably teamed with start and possibly DisCode.

Seems likely, at this current venture. Tho' I'm unsure about her buddies. I thought you were possible earlier, but how and ever.

It's not holy when I know that atleast 5 non-holy persons are going to kill me.

So, your scum partners are on the wagon? Thanks for the info.

Nope. Also, what do you mean with 'partners'? I have no partners, or atleast, I'm not informed that I have any.

Such a useful exchange.

Ah sorry, I missed the "start" in your post as well.
Yeah, I really don't think she's with start, given she took a loud stance against him, and if they were on the same team, they'd either both be for the data lynch or both against it.

Yes, she took a loud stance that could also be seen as daytime coaching, and has labeled him "Neutral" in two different analyses. I like to look at players that other players consistently claim as being "neutral' or 'unreadable'.

Yeah, in general it's a good point. It's even better if someone's been providing content and there's been enough to get a read on them.

Also Discode hasn't posted for a while, has he?


Okay basically a double lynch isn't going to work atm. Also another flaw is that if either data/mipe are scum (and mipe is obviously) then they're gonna fuck this up for us, more than likely. It's probably not feasible so ..bleh. Still disagree that it's a policy vote, he's been scummy in this game too and is unlikely to improve, plus he's been scummy.

1) I'm trying to establish whether you are willing to go with what the majority have said (which is pro-town, even if you disagree with it).

False assumption. There are only 12 players in this game, and it is entirely possible that the combined scum cults are the majority. Going along with the majority could in fact be pro-scum

The scum won't be the majority. I guess they could equal it at best, but there's no way we've 7 scum in a game this size.

Semi's 277 was something I've realised too, I think at this stage a double lynch even if it could be a good idea won't work, unfortunately.

Okay so mostly caught up.

Ftr I think people are not understanding Magua's point at all, it's pretty clear to me he's not saying that but I guess I can let him answer for himself.

If he is, by some chance, saying that then's it a horrible idea.

Might be my last question for this game, use this information as much as you want to:

Mod: Is it possible that there are more than 4 on one cult? So is it possible that one cult could have, say, 5 members?

Lol'd @ this post. He's trying to sow doubt in the town's mind here, obviously. Yeh let's hang this guy.
W

Will hold a vote untill magua clarifies.

[Faraday]

In my view, it seems likely that the scum have one guardian. That was why mipe could claim those powers. The investigation was going to be faked and the other stuff came from guardian protection.

Originally thought that about his claim, and I still agree with it.

So that means there is a darkness guardian out there, and possibly a darkness goon. If that's the case, I imagine one is on the mipe wagon and one isn't. If we have 2 members in the cult, there is a guardian by himself looking hopeless. If we have 3 members, there's one NK-immune and investigation immune goon around.

IDK, I think pretty much everyone *eventually* wanted a Mipe Lynch It's seeing what people thought of his play before his bad claim that's the key point, I think. I'll read back over the game to see who's a possible scum buddy later. I still dunno if 3 are likely. Think about it w/ 3 people and a guardian the amount of crosskills are reduced (or chances of them) so I think that's unfair on the town.

[Faraday]

/will post tomorrow. Had a busy day.

Sorry :/ studying is killing me.

[Faraday]

DisCord has flaked the site. Last Post was Dec 3rd.

[Faraday]

I think Chaco is town. I find the points that semi and dramonic are using against him are weak. Chaco has done well with pointing out why. And I also see a buddying between Semi and Dramonic.

Incant: Dramonic

Hmm I agree. I don't find the points expressed against Chaco to be very good. I find him quite scummy still, but when I look at it there doesn't seem to be an awful lot there, really.

That's a little weak, to be honest. One of the better scum tells I've found in multi-scum setups is selective scumhunting, so going after the group that is already weakened for no particular reason is not
particularly the best.

Yeah Selective scum-hunting is a very good tell, although I think it's reasonable early in the game at the same time. I mean we've little enough info so using what we do have seems reasonable enough at the same time.

[Faraday]

To that end, I thought your point about Seacore was excellent, but unlike you I'm going to vote discode because he wasn't on the mipe wagon, was on the Seacore wagon and was scummy throughout D1.

Vote DisCode

Ya know it might help if you said why he was scummy day 1. It also might be useful if you'd mentioned Discode day 1,

at all

. Ctrl + F reveals no mention of Discode in your day 1 posts at all. You had seacore down as scummy, who was in direct opposition to most of DisCode's points, so what gives here?

[Faraday]

@Magua
I don't think starttransmission to likely be scum buddies with mipe. If you are voting him because of a scum partner read with mipe, I don't think you should. He was one of the few players yesterday pushing more strongly for a mipe lynch by not dragging the day out and allowing for the travesty of a coordinated double lynch which could have let mipe save himself. Mipe's partner would most likely be for the double lynch in my opinion rather that actively seeking to avoid it.

Disagree here. I think mipe's partner would have wanted a double lynch as it would have at least got him something out of the day, i.e. at least he loses a scum-buddy but someone else dies too. This is assuming 2 scum of course. I can see it working either way, but I think I'd lean to him being on the double lynch group if it was a tell either way.

[Faraday]

wait read that wrong ^

[Faraday]

Lmao I'm a retard.

Anyway

Incant SerialClergyman

Wanna re-read Snow_Bunny too.

[Faraday]

Hmm I agree. I don't find the points expressed against Chaco to be very good. I find him quite scummy still, but when I look at it there doesn't seem to be an awful lot there, really.

You were incanting Chaco yesterday. What do you see as the case against Chaco, or your own case against Chaco that led you to incant him yesterday, and why is that not enough to earn an incantation from you today but was enough yesterday?

I thought his post where he popped in to lay down a vote and then popped out was horribly scummy, so I voted him for it. This was when I was waiting for Mipe to come back w/ his explanation for all the stupid questions.

And it should be obvious why. Different days, we've had 2 flips of dead people now, so it changes how I look @ the game. I didn't like Sc's last post, and want to hear what he has to say about it.

[Faraday]

Um. So you're voting for someone you don't/didn't find scummy in Discode. What? Also Data was prety much a non-entity day 1 so talking about hs wagon patterns are pretty useless to look at.

Faraday - do you think there's an element of self-interest in your discouraging people looking off mipe's wagon given you're one of the 4 people who weren't on it? What do you think of Magua encouraging voting people off the wagon when he was one of those four as well?

No. I made it pretty clear I was gonna vote Mipe, but there was things to be sorted out before hand. Just because I didn't incant him doesn't mean my intentions weren't clear.

Magua had also made it clear he was suspicious of Mipe so I think just looking @ who was on it at the end of the day gives an unfair impression of my levels of suspicioun of Mipe.

[Faraday]

I'm not questioning whether or not there were intentions to vote him, I'm asking whether the specific practise of discouraging looking there is because you think it's likely to be an innaccurate assumption or if you are discouraging it for some other reason?

I don't think it'll help looking off the wagon.

I think every player in the game was willing to vote Mipe, apart from DataDanne (and maybe DisCode who's been AWOL). So I don't see what information can be gleaned from analysing who was and who wasn't on the wagon.

Also Discode hasn't posted on site since December 3rd. I find it unlikely he'd be able to send in a kill. He could be active and not posting, but errr fairly unlikely.

[Faraday]

So yeah, I don't think Discode is Darkness scum.

[Faraday]

I think it relevant to look at the Data counter/double-wagon rather than the people not on the mipe wagon. It is very likely for scum of either alignment to be there. If dramonic flips scum at some point it may change the read on that wagon, but as of now I do not find dramonic to be scummy.

I think calling it a counter-wagon is a bit unfair. it was a double lynch, definitely or an attempt at one.

Did you find Data scummy?

[Faraday]

Is it that hard to grasp that deeming someone not scummy requires a read?

This But apparently it is.

I dunno though if this is a big deal or not, it seems to be a pointless semantical argument that's clogging up the thread.

Semi do you have any examples off hand where you stated no read means not scummy before?

[Faraday]

^ I think Snow_Bunny should be incanting Sc.

jesus christ @ this stupid fucking debate between semi and chaco.


clogging up the thread w/ shit is giving me a headache. I agreed with chaco initially but it just seems that Semi has a different way of saying things or w/e, now that he's explained it debating it to death won't change anything, he's not going to go 'oops i was lying all along'.

Snow you said you misread what SC posted, yet you're still incanting him, why?

[Faraday]

jesus christ @ this stupid fucking debate between semi and chaco.

QFT. Phony distancing?

I have thoughts, and I'll share them sooner than later. Lurking is too much fun.

Ehhhh, I don't know. Chaco seemed to het quite worked up. Possible I guess.

Don't be a-lurkan, please.

[Faraday]

I find Chaco's responses in the ongoing grammar lesson to be scummier than semioldguy's. semioldguy seems to be trying to explain himself, and even says, "Oh, look, see, it's this miscommunication", while Chaco continues to paint it as "You slipped, let's lynch", which seems all out of proportion to what's being discussed.

Disagree here. i don't think either come out as particularly scummy, but chaco looks to be at least thinking he's found scum, it's the most agressive he's been all game. of course he could act like this as scum w/ the 2 scum-groups either but idk I get the feeling he's pressing something he believes in.

I don't buy Snow Bunny's line of argument for incanting SerialClergyman.

It seems a weird stretch, especially since there are better reasons.

[Faraday]

In fact, fuck it, I'm still happy with my vote because he still was on the Seacore wagon and off the mipe wagon.

Irony here, because Serial himself was heavy on the Seacore wagon and extremely wishy-washy on the mipe wagon, in fact tried to derail it twice by my count. Once it was clear mipe was not save-able, SC bussed him.

This is a better reason than the supposed slip, in all honesty. Not that I care *atm* as long as it looks like snow is trying to scum-hunt.

[Faraday]

This is a better reason than the supposed slip, in all honesty. Not that I care *atm* as long as it looks like snow is trying to scum-hunt.

Not to start another huge in-game argument, but it seems to me that scum hunting in this game is not a reliable town tell, since we have competing scum factions that are trying to wipe each other out.

WTF UR WRONG DUDE.

Nah I see what you mean, it's just that I wasn't comfortable w/ her lack of scumhunting earlier. I'm not a big fan of PBPA's, tbh as I think they can make pretty much anyone look scummy, plus some of the things she assigned scum +'s for were slightly nonsensical.

[Faraday]

Faraday, if I wasn't scum, who is?

Snow_Bunny, I think. I don't like her earlier play day 1, also I think the push on the "slip" is weird, as I don't see what she's seeing and it confuses me as she's making it bigger than it is.

My case was originally that your vote was horribad. It then looked like a clumsy backpedal as you changed your reasons for voting discord despite not finding him scummy. Also I think the clumsy effort around the mipe wagon is a point against you. You can say 'if we could daytalk' etc but you'd obviously not want to lose your scumpartner day 1 if it could be helped.

What do you think of my point that he'd be unlikely to have sent in a night kill for his team if he was the last person remaining, btw? I think it's quite reasonable to assume it, although I guess he could have managed to get one in but it seems unlikely. Thus I think he's not scum w/ Mipe.

Starktransmission could easily be scum, I guess I should re-read him. he's been just ...there for most of the game for me, nothing really either way.

Chaco looks more town after the recent thing w/ Semioldguy actually.

Hey dramonic thoughts on snow_bunny and magua?

[Faraday]

I might of missed something but why Faraday, would you pick SC over snowbunny?

At the moment yes I think I would.


Semi is probably town and I have a neutral read on Stark. I'd not actively object to his lynch but there's a couple of people I'd lynch before him.

Snow could you explain one more time how it's a slip on SC's part. Assume I'm mentally incompetent and explain it slowly and clearly for me please.

Faraday, my vote was horribad, nothing much I can do about it now. Got two players with similar names mixed up. Mind you - I still voted the one that made them ore sense according to wagon analysis

Wagon analysis is unreliable at best, if you'd found him scummy I could see it being another reason to vote for someone but voting them for purely that is rather silly.

Having said all that, it's sort of like Snow Bunny's criticism, there's not much I can say to it other than shrugging if I get lynched for it, so unless you think there's something I've left unturned I'm just going to press on and look for a scum lynch.

That's fair enough I don't see the point and arguing back over the same thing a lot, so yeah feel free to keep looking even if you're scum.

Snow Bunny is aggressive that I would expect her to get nightkilled. I don't expect aggressive play from mafia in this game until one of the cults is eliminated.

This I disagree with entirely, actually. I don't think it's indicative of alignment, especially since it seems mipe had a guardian that could protect him. Also I'm not sure she's been much more agressive than a lot of the players in the game, at least she was quite passive day 1 to me.

Also

probably V/la

over the christmas period etc etc. I'll be on and off now and then, depends on wtf is happening.

[Faraday]

Okay, I get it. DON'T SIGH AT ME MAKES ME ANGRY j/k.

Um that actually makes more sense now I guess. I think I disagree though, if he's assuming 2 man scum teams (and I think *Most* people agree it's the greatest likelyhood) then surely the Guardian has to be town, unless you think it's possible scum protected a town player (possible? idk I see not motive for it).

[Faraday]

Hmm gonna need to mull over this, I believe we have a town dreamwalker so if no one says anything I'll assume Stark is legit. Also it makes little sense as scum unless he's a scum dreamwalker but even then it'd be a risk to claim and risk counterclaim.

I think if a town dreamwalker protected Semi then they should claim, sure it outs the PR but it also gives us 3 likely town, I think which is certaintly worth it.

On the other hand if no one claims he's probably scum.

[Faraday]

Pretty much what I said in the rest of the post, it was just sort of my thoughts. I think I pretty much agree with you that if we don't get a claim from someone who protected semi then he's scum and should be lynched.

[Faraday]

Just seems odd to say that you believe the claim, you think he's scum but you don't see a vote.

Out of curiosity, Snow Bunny, did you happen to miss recent events?

Believing stark's claim is something I definitely believe but I think it's possible semi had a town guardian used on him and I'd like to make sure before anything else happens.

And like I said, I can't imagine town protecting semi, because that would mean scum protected town last night, and I can't wrap my head around that.

Why does that have to be the case couldn't Semi be the one that someone tried to kill?

I'd still prefer a town Guardian to claim if they protected Semi though before voting.



Snow_Bunny have you anything to say on the claim...at all?

[Faraday]

Oops I missed that.

[Faraday]

I am 99.99% that startransmission is a dreamwalker. At this point, I'm willing to say I'm 95% that he's even town. So, time to move my vote:

Unincant: startransmission, Incant: Heilograph

I still think Snow Bunny's argument on SC is bollocks. But I am persuaded by deathsauce's and Faraday's arguments as to SC being the most likely (besides perhaps Discode/Heilograph) to be mipe's partner.

But reading SC's iso post #35, he points out that the scum can daytalk, and rereading the OP, I see this is true. In light of this, mipe's claim absolutely boggles the mind, unless he is partnered with a complete newbie (not seeing one around), or his partner was flaking and not responding to communication. That would fix it onto Discode or datadanne/dramonic. Since datadanne seemed to have little trouble jumping onto the mipe wagon, Discode/Heilograph it is.

Ya know this is actually a really, really good point. I want to go back and check the time between Mipe saying about being a different role and then claiming but I think this point definitely may be good. BRB CHECKING.

[Faraday]

Incant Heliograph

Admittedly I didn't find Discode very scummy but I think any competent player (and everyone in this game is competent) would have told Mipe to shut up w/ all the questions and since Discode wasn't around to stop him this seems the most logical conclusion.

I think Night could do a lot to tell us whether we have a town guardian or not, magua makes a good point there thus I'm inclined to see if this will sort itself out for another night (this being the Semi situation)

[Faraday]

I prefer a Heliograph or Serial lynch over Semi, in all honesty.

I still think it's as likely it was a town guardian, since he looked reasonably pro-town day 1 iirc.

[Faraday]

Also i want to hear more from dram, he's been quiet lately.

[Faraday]

Semi-open game guys. C'mon. Mipe was lynched, remember.

[Faraday]

OK, I'm in the obvious minority here, but I don't believe the claim.

It was made for basically no reason, he instantly gets all "let's double lynch" as soon as a few people begin believing the claim, there are too many other possible scenarios as to why there was only on N1 kill. I'm saying the claim was BS.

More Serial votes please. Or Start, I'm OK with that too.

Eh, IDK. Why don't you believe it? I guess if his scumbuddy was going to be lynched it *might* be possible but that's very ballsy and definitely puts him out there for a probably counterclaim.

Then finally Faraday beleives the claim but is unprepared to do anythign about it, and was definitely hesitant when the claim first came out, which I called him on. He's now settled for attacking a player using essentially the same reasoning I used at the start of the day, and not being prepared to vote for semi.

The claim doesn't change ANYTHING really. It's as likely he was protected by a town guardian as he was a scum guardian, and I think stuff like this will sort itself out during the nightphase anyway.

The reasons for voting semi are actually really bad. Why is he not likely to have gotten protection? Did you not think he looked fairly pro-town day 1?

[Faraday]

Yeah, I definitely don't want semi lynched and don't understand the reason there's a wagon on him.

For some reason people seem to think the claim makes him more likely to be scum, but well I don't see how that's the case at all.

Ftr despite the oddities around stark's claim that people have brought up I believe it.

[Faraday]

yeh she def does and stuff. new years even atm and i'm not 10% sober so i'll give this game attention tomorrow night when i wake up

[Faraday]

Yeah still against the SOG lynch.

Heliograph needs to show up.

I'll be around at deadline I think if a switch is needed though.

[Faraday]

Switch to SC obviously.

[Faraday]

Dram hasn't provided much recently at all. This is worrying me. (Not just talking about the New Year time either). Needs to post more, or at least I'd like to know where he stands on a few issues..

- Why his vote is still on Chaco when it's clear he's not being lynched.

- Opinions on the other vote getters.

- Who he wants lynched.


Chaco your unvote confuses me, are you saying you don't find semi particularly scummy anymore? Why do you think you did before, or what changed in your re-read specifically?

[Faraday]

Okay, I think this helps me understand your stance more.

You're not the most likely to be lynched at this stage, so I think you claiming makes little sense at this time as scum, especially with 2 scumgroups still out there and the posibillity of cross kills.

I don't really understand the breadcrumb at all, lol but that's not a big thing. So you protected dramonic b/c you thought he was pretty much confirmed as not being part of one of the scum factions, yeh?
I can buy that, alright.

[Faraday]

I think this does make semi more likely scum, in that I don't think there's much chance of us having 2 town guardians *and* a town dreamwalker in the same game, seems a little overpowered for the town to me.

In that way I can understand why he's wanting Semi lynched because of it and it certaintly makes me think semi is more likely to be scum.


Mague SC lives if there's 2 town guardians? Well obviously, yeah he does if the other Guardian chooses to protect him.

Also 2 doctors cross protecting in this set-up seems really, really powerful if they everr come out. So yeah.

Is deadline passed now anyway?

[Faraday]

Apologies for spelling errors, kinda tired.

[Faraday]

Okay, so Serial flipping scum was a slight surprise for me. Especially after his claim.

I want to go back and read the day. I'm going to tentatively assume that the Darkness cult have been eliminated, although Sc's play is *even* weirder then, it's effectively claiming doc as the last member of a scum group, and putting a nk target on yourself but with the lack of night kill I think it's more likely.

That means the other cult likely have a power role too, for balance, or they've got 3 members (for uneven scum groups see Emerald City Mafia) although I don't know how that'd work in a mini game.

If there *are* 3 though that would make this probable lylo, so just a word of warning to that.
If they've 2 men they've either got a Guardian or Dreamwalker, I can see use for both.

Heliograph and Dramonic are both in severe need of content first off, Heliograph just completely ignored everything @ the end of yesterday which is off and dram hasn't been around for a while.

[Faraday]

Well, it appears we were correct in assuming scum teams of two. So, I guess that's it for darkness, and there are still two shadow running around.

I'm sorry SOG, my shame is almost too great to bear. Flawed logic sinks ships.

I don't have any suspects at the moment, with the exception of Dramonic. My investigation last night resulted in me finding someone innocent, so I don't have any good leads.

I'd reccomend you give us this innocent before the end of the day, I'd say wait a bit to see how things pan out.

Yeah and there's probably 2 of each, but better to be safe than sorry.

[Faraday]

Yo gonna be busy w/ moving back to uni for the next day or 2. Try not to miss me.

xoxo.

[Faraday]

I prefer a Pom lynch than a Phate lynch still. Waiting on Phate's response to the mass claim thing but it honestly doesn't look like Pom cares who's lynched, as long as it's not her, she doesn't seem interested in finding scum to me; at all.

[Faraday]

I prefer a Pom lynch than a Phate lynch still. Waiting on Phate's response to the mass claim thing but it honestly doesn't look like Pom cares who's lynched, as long as it's not her, she doesn't seem interested in finding scum to me; at all.

This was obviously posted in the wrong game It's a good point though

But yeah.

3 man scumgroup w/ a power role would mean the other scum group would also need 3 and a power role, and I don't see that being the case at all.

Incant Heliograph

I want to see some content or you can die.

Asking the cop who his innocent is, isn't content.
I'm not 100% convinced about start but I believe town would at least need a cop in this set-up, unless they had another doc, but that's got the posibillity to break the game.

Snow_bunny why do you think stark is the most likely mafia?

[Faraday]

Mod: Heliograph replaced DisCode

[Faraday]

There are parts of snow's case I like but I don't think it's enough to convince me.

Snow, quickly. Why is using probabillites a scum-tell? Why wouldn't he survive the night? The other scum faction would have no way of knowing if there was a Guardian or not.

Snow do you think he's completely faking or that he's a shadow/darkness dreamwalker? I could see the scum teams getting different power roles, but I don't really see them as being > 2 at this moment in time. Bear in mind if they are > 2 we're almost fucking definitely in Lylo.

Hmm I'm going to have to think here a little bit on the set-up analysis, I found stark's claim odd but I definitely trusted it as I had no reason not to, I found his reasoning flawed but not scummy, really.


I don't know if town guardian + nilla is enough to combat a scum team of 2/3 w/ a guardian versus another scum team of maybe 2/3? it seems unlikely to me. I think I've reviewed/designed enough set-ups to know what seems balanced and I know Percy is a competent moderator.

I think basically the chances of him being scum despite the odd play are fairly slim at the moment knowing what we do.

Chaco/Ds/Dramonic care to weigh in on Snow's case? Agree or disagree?

[Faraday]

Stuff on probabillites is OKAY. I kinda understand where you're coming from there I guess.

*sigh* Do you know exactly what roles town got? How can you be so sure that town doesn't have 2 guardians? 3? A dreamwalker? You can't talk about balance until the setup is known.

If there's another dreamwalker out there then they'd have counterclaimed by now as far as I'm concerned. 2/3 guardians could result in a very broken game for previously stated reasons ( Possibilty for cross protects would give the town a chance to auto-win).

So, you are acknowledging my case and his scumminess, but you aren't going to vote on him based on probabilities!?

I see your frustration but his claim has to be taken into account, to not do that would just be stupid.

To all you whinies that like to theorize on the setup instead of scumhunting (I'm talking to you, dramonic), 7 towns with 2 ~ 4 PR/ 3 Darkness with 1 PR / 2 Shadows with 2 PR. Is it too unbalanced?

Hey knowing how to speculate on a set-up can be an effective scum-hunting technique. Now I'm not Tar or Kinetic and don't claim to be able to break games but I do have a fairly good sense of game balance and I'm not going to throw it out the window.

The way I see it at the moment is this, we've either got 2 or 3 scum left at most. I'd say it's likely that Serial/Mipe were the only members of their cult as we didn't have a night kill last night. Now if the other scum group is 2 they have a power role but if they're 3 they're probably all regular mafia as I can't see a 3/3 mafia split being balanced without the like of 2 investigators on the innocents side or something. Also if the split was 3/3 we're probably pretty much fucked anyway, although I sincerely doubt that's the case as scum would be piling on quicker, I think.

Ugh, yeah you probably hated all that set-up specualtion, didn't you
Basically I think in either of the above scenario's a single town Guardian isn't enough power to balance the game and an investigative role would be probably needed.

I'd not be adverse to stark revealing his claimed innocent soon. I think it'd be helpful at this point as I'd be willing to assume them innocent too for the moment thus narrowing the lynch pool. It might also help those that think he's mafia decide if he's legit or not.

[Faraday]

Jesus, are my frackin' posts invisible?

Start may be scum (I'd bet on it) but Chaco is SC and mipe's scumbuddy.

For the setup whiners, one thing to consider is this is a game of cults. What if they are able to recruit?

Man...seriously? There are no Elder Dreamwalkers. There are no Double Voters. There are no Nk immune miller vig's. There are no cult mechanics. Repeat it untill everyone realises it


I honestly don't think Chaco CAN be Sc/Mipe's scumbuddy. I don't think the game can be possible balanced if he is.

At this stage I'm thinking Stark is our only remaining power role, and I think a cop/doc in this game isn't such a bad combo that's breakable. I guess doc/doc could work too (if doc/cop works so does this, kinda) but since no one has claimed that I'm ruling it out.

That's pretty much why I think stark and by virtue deathsauce is innocent. I'm not saying 100% confirmed yet but I think it'll be easily sorted out anyway.

[Faraday]

Then please explain why SC said repeatedly that Darkness had three members plus a power role

Uh? He's scum? He's not going to be 100% honest with everything he says in the thread? I mean that's a pretty poor reason to think there's a 3rd scum.

What do you think happened to the night kill last night then?

[Faraday]

Faraday, have you heard the word "gambit"?

It's more than possible that the last Darkness member (I'm 99.9% sure there's a last member, named star) decided to forego the kill in order to appear dead to everyone.

no please explain the word to me.

1)that's a really bad idea for a couple of reasons 1) they then have to No kill 2)for the rest of the game and risk being hit by the opposing scum team.
it lengthens the game out and makes it far more likely to be lynched
3) depending on the person they could be individually scummy and lynched for being other scum group anyway, kinda linked to 2 tho.

why do you think star can't be the opposing scum-group? I mean that argument would make a lot more sense to me at least, he's a dreamwalker from there who tried a gambit to get a townie/opposing scum lynched.

[Faraday]

^^ obviously I know what a gambit is, not being legit retarded and all that >__> but the point still stands

[Faraday]

Just replaced into another game and spent today catching on that, I'll get to this tomorrow.

[Faraday]

@Faraday: It's not that I don't think Star can't be Shadow. It's that his early D1 play shows a connection with Darkness.

Well, I also have another idea, and I want you to weigh in. Let's star survive another day. If he isn't NK, then we lynch him tomorrow after he says another "result". Scum can't risk to have a cop out there, and if he survives two nights in a row then there's something fishy there. If he's scum, then we lynched scum and we can work out from his investigation claims. If he's town, then we have confirmed results.

To be honest, I rather lynch him today, but sometimes you have to take some risk in order to catch scum.

This seems mostly agreeable and makes you more likely to be town, imo. I mean tunelling seems to be something you do, and it's not neccessarily a bad thing either I guess so I think the fact you've taken the time to take a look at it speaks well.

Moar heliograph incants plz. Deathsauce sums it up rather perfectly about why it's such a useless post.

[Faraday]

So... POE is it? It's obvious by your post that you don't believe my claim. That would make me a liar, so why not use that as an excuse to vote me?

POE? Is this directed to me? Well i guess you can indeed read that by my posts i dont believe your claim. "why not to use it as an a excuse to vote me" well i did vote you.

I agree with the point helio makes here ftr, but moving on.

to answer number 2, i find chaco to be on the fence, he could be scum, but than again he could be not scum.

This is exactly why my vote is on you, you don't seem to have a concrete opinion on anyone.

What makes faraday confusing, simple a lot of info = hard to decide what catagory to place him in.

See I don't get this. I think I've been as active as anyone, scumhunted (to a reasonable degree might I add, though I won't take any credit for being on a Mipe lynch lmao) and had enough that I shouldn't be confusing. Surely witht the data you have it should well be..

easier

to get a read on me.

[Faraday]

A majority lynch is good, we didn't want the fiasco that happened yesterday to happen again (admittedly it worked well yesterday but yeah).

Hammer is fine.

[Faraday]

Chaco
dramonic
Snow_Bunny
startransmission

Okay, it's LYLO so no quick voting.

Now two of the above names are scum and I aim to find out which. We don't have that much time due to the voting mechanics so everyone needs to be active.


Stark what was your result last night?

I'm going to go back and read over the 4 remaining players to see what I can take from their play so far, so yeah. I'll do this when less hungover though.

[Faraday]

I was thinking... We can try to kill all of us in a single blow, you know. That would end in a town win.

Explain how this would work. We all put a vote on someone and wait for deadline? Um scum could just vote together and hammer. Unless you've got another way of doing this then it's a bad idea.

[Faraday]

I don't want a lynch now, we have plenty of time. But I don't like the mass suicide tactic, and I certainly don't want a no lynch. Fuck a draw, town can win this today.

+ The fact neither of these plans will work and are horrible. How exactly can we no lynch and get a draw? If someone can explain this then I'd be all ears of course, or at least open to it, but um, I don't think it's possible.

Actually if we even TRY to no lynch one of the scum can just vote and it'll be game over. If we did manage to NL then they'd kill someone overnight and we'd be left in a 2/2 situation which would result in a scum victory.

Suicide plan is very flawed and I don't find the arguments for it very convincing at all.

Also, why are you not dead yet?

Why do you think Start would be able to answer this question? I mean, what exactly are you hoping to achieve with it dram?

[Faraday]

Against mass suicide as it just.won't.work.

Well I'm less sure of start than yesterday, admittedly. But if he's legit then chaco and dramonic are the last 2 scum. So them two.

[Faraday]

Well, it seems it falls down between start being legit, and Chaco or Dram. Hmm...

There are more options than this, well at least from your point of view. You didn't even consider I was scum here, that's very odd. Also obviously it could be start + someone else too if he's pretending to have an innocent.

We are supposedly on mylo, right? If we assume two Shadow members left (if there's 1 it wouldn't be a team but a SK, if there's 3 then town already lost) then we must lynch scum or we'll lost.

Yer this is true. I guess 1 member could be possible? IDUNNO. Best to assume two though for obvious reasons.

However, there's another option. Actually, there were two options left, one of them being a no-lynch. With a no-lynch we would have be in a better position, imo. (Which, btw, gives Start scummy points, as he voted fast, maybe trying to prevent this). But as there's already a vote on play, we can't no-lynch now. :/

No lynch = mafia kill + force NL/double lynch and they win, no?

Then, the other option is putting up a double lynch. Dram and Chaco.

You've already pointed out why a double lynch probably won't work and if these 2 are scum there's no need to double lynch them as opposed to singly lynching them, although i'd give us near guaranteed odds of hitting scum I guess.

@Faraday: Care to elaborate why are you less sure of Start than yesterday?

Most certainly. Okay given the fact he's a COP the mafia/cult would be very stupid to let him live over night. He could obtain a guilty on them, right? This'd bring it down to a 1 versus 1 which I don't think the mafia would want, then of course a double lynch is possible so idk.

I'm not going to throw the game away and want to asses carefull stark's claim once again when I have more time and his reasons for doing so.

Snow what exactly was your mass suicide strategy, how did you see it working?

[Faraday]

No lynch = mafia kill + force NL/double lynch and they win, no?

No because... No, wait, you're right. I missed something. Yes, you're right. We need to lynch good or die.
[/quote]

Okay explain what you were thinking with no lynch, please.

[Faraday]

^ tags are fucked but the meaning is clear imo.

[Faraday]

Yeah I'm not hammering here or anything like that. Gonna have a read-through now to check up on some things.

[Faraday]

@Faraday: It's not that I don't think Star can't be Shadow. It's that his early D1 play shows a connection with Darkness.

Well, I also have another idea, and I want you to weigh in. Let's star survive another day. If he isn't NK, then we lynch him tomorrow after he says another "result". Scum can't risk to have a cop out there, and if he survives two nights in a row then there's something fishy there. If he's scum, then we lynched scum and we can work out from his investigation claims. If he's town, then we have confirmed results.

To be honest, I rather lynch him today, but sometimes you have to take some risk in order to catch scum.

Okay what changed here? You said you'd like to lynch him today after his result, is it the fact you now believe him despite not believing him and seeming to gun for his lynch yesterday.

It seems quite a change of opinion. Was there anything in particular that made you not want to lynch start yesterday? Or did you just see the arguments for him being town as strong enough?

[Faraday]

Honestly, who do you think most likely as scum? A claimed cop (who has survived quite a few nights, but that's wifom), or the active lurker that almost everybody think is scum?

This feels like bating me in to vote. Um, it's not that simple though, and simplifying it down to that isn't fair.

Anyway I have a few questions for dram/chaco now, so I'll ask them before doing anything.

[Faraday]

dram you pushed chaco for a while the day 2 it seemed but yesterday you didn't seem to push his lynch very much, any reason for that? I mean you were suspicious of him earlier but that seems ages ago.

You don't really seem to say much about your suspects apart from that...at all. You didn't even try to get a wagon on him day 3. Why?

[Faraday]

Using the fact you didn't post isn't exactly a convincing argument IMO.

If Chaco is scum who's his scum buddy?

[Faraday]

well, under the precept Start isnt lying, it would be you.
Otherwise it would be Start.

I don't see a Start/Chaco scum group tbh

[Faraday]

Eh, fuck it.

Incant Dramonic

Percy?

[Faraday]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Faraday]

So, my biggest question..Mipe..what the heck?

Good game all. I had fun being partnered with Chaco. (I'm sure the qt will be linked, i've no problem w/ it being linked, btw) and I think we were fairly solid without being exceptional.

Now obviously leaving Stark alive was a big risk, but I explain why I thought it was a better idea in the qt.

I'll stick around for endgame for a while as I love post game discussion too.

Stark what made you claim when you did?

[Faraday]

The best thing that happened us was surprisingly the night 1 kill being blocked.

I figured if Chaco was lynched I'd be next, halfhearted vote on him day 1 looked really, really bad. I'm surprised start didn't look back for connections before voting, phew!

I was lurking when Sc/Semi went down, the smile on my face @ the double lynch was pretty big, tbh. Serial why did you claim? It seemed a really bad strategy, especially for the last scum in his group.

[Faraday]

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/GS4bs8ZRwEHm <--- our qt. Idk what we said, doubt there's anything bad about anyone but yeah. Daytalk is a great tool for scum, and in general it's nice to be able to talk to someone during the day imo. Loved the set-up and I *love* the incantation idea (I see another set-up using it too, atm) it's certainly a good idea.

Also good modding Percy (and thanks to The Tracker for doing a great job while he was here) and I'd play in your games in the future, definitely.

[Faraday]

Eh, I've got nothing but good things to say about the set-up. I'd obviously thought it was possible the other team had a dreamwalker to mix things up but mipe's claim made it obvious that wasn't the case.

Also then I knew that they'd not have 3 members. The double lynch was great btw, good call by semi, not sure I'd have had the guts for that as town.

As for Mipe, well I think he was a little out of his depth. He seems a newer player and the mechanics seemed to overwhelm him, however I'd still play with everyone in the game again, so yeah, nothing but good things to come from it.

As for Magua, that was a good spot. As you can see we were unsure of the kill, and I was pretty sure the game hinged on it, really. (turned out it didn't as we didn't kill the cop anyway)I think his reaction to Sc's claim + start's gave him away, but there wasn't a whole lot else he could do.

[Faraday]

^ I agree. We weren't too worried about the other scum group, I don't think. Their early fuck up helped us a lot.

And I don't think you played your pr badly. 1 successful protect and being fairly obv town aren't bad, it was just it was either you or dram that was the Guardian from the reaction and we guessed right picking you.

[Faraday]

Hey don't worry Sc I didn't mind. I'd see why Mipe going down would be morale busting.