Open 183 - Polygamist Mafia (Game Over!)

[SensFan]

Chaco 11-10-2009 08:43 PM ET (US)
Sup Sens?

Sens 11-10-2009 08:43 PM ET (US)
Not much. You?

Chaco 11-11-2009 06:58 AM ET (US)
Just sick. So anything you want to know, need me to know before we start?

Sens 11-11-2009 12:30 PM ET (US)
Don't post until I do when the thread opens. Trust me, I have a plan.

Chaco 11-11-2009 08:59 PM ET (US)
Care to enlighten or are we going about this blindly?

Chaco 11-12-2009 04:59 PM ET (US)
So you're essentially saying we can quote you and auto clear ourself? Not cool.

I already cleared this plan with the Mod. Above, I quoted (timestamps included) everything in the QT between Chaco and I, with the mod's posts removed. I expect everyone to do this in their next post.

With love,

Sens

[SensFan]

@Adel:

Do the numbers 76 604 20 mean anything to you? Yes or no only, please. This will be explained after all QTs have been quoted.

[SensFan]

Stop voting my lover!!!

Adel and yabba are the only two to have posted at this point.

[Adel claims Spyrex-lover]

Saber's my lover

----

Does anyone see a way that at least one Scum isn't in the Adel-Death-yabba triangle? And if Death isn't Scum, he's a lover with one of the others, leaving us the third to lynch.

Vote: DeathNote

[SensFan]

Stop voting my lover!!!

Adel and yabba are the only two to have

posted

been voted at this point.

[Adel claims Spyrex-lover]

Saber's my lover

----

Does anyone see a way that at least one Scum isn't in the Adel-Death-yabba triangle? And if Death isn't Scum, he's a lover with one of the others, leaving us the third to lynch.

Vote: DeathNote

[SensFan]

This is what it looks like if you actually copy-paste:

Chaco #
11-10-2009 08:43 PM ET (US)

Sup Sens?
Sens #
11-11-2009 01:13 AM ET (US)

Not much. You?
Chaco #
11-11-2009 06:58 AM ET (US)

Just sick. So anything you want to know, need me to know before we start?
Sens #
11-11-2009 12:30 PM ET (US)

Don't post until I do when the thread opens. Trust me, I have a plan.
Chaco #
11-11-2009 08:59 PM ET (US)

Care to enlighten or are we going about this blindly?

Chaco #
11-12-2009 04:59 PM ET (US)

So you're essentially saying we can quote you and auto clear ourself? Not cool.

Yours does not look like that, at all.

*Note that where ever there is a pound sign, I edited out the post-number associated with the post, to avoid showing where and how often the Mod posted, based on the gaps in numbers.

[SensFan]

How, specifically, did you copy-paste it?

Did you actually just click and drag to highlight the diaglogue, because that might explain the fact yours doesn't have names?

(Please, dear God, no one else so much as comment on this post until he does.)

[SensFan]

Yeah, bullshit. Highlighting the whole QT will highlight the names of the people as well, and you don't mention deleting them. And there's no way that "deleted the post count" can even begin to mean "deleted the post count, and the names since they were on the name line"

[SensFan]

For my sake:

Yankee, copy-paste the QT conversation you had with Death in any way you like. Make sure to include all dialogue, timestamps, and names of people posting.

[SensFan]

DeathNote, either you are Scum, or you have blatantly lied.
Repeatedly.
Even when given chances to correct yourself.

[SensFan]

You have lied, DeathNote.

There is literally no way to (without splicing up the post, which you claim you didn't do) to highlight every part of all those posts, and not get the names of the people who posted them.

[SensFan]

Then why the fuck are you doing it?

Seriously, Death. What you claim to have done is

literally IMPOSSIBLE

.

[SensFan]

Then why the fuck are you doing it?

Seriously, Death. What you claim to have done is

literally IMPOSSIBLE

.

I can't tell if your actually angry of just pressuring me for answers. I sure hope this isn't getting the better of you. I can assure you that I am not lying. I stated what I did and do not know why I am missing names. Let me know when your satisfied with my answers.

You don't seem to get it. What you claim to do is literally impossible. Not unlikely, or really hard. Impossible.

But yeah, do it again.

[SensFan]

Whoops, my bad, Darklight.

In case it wasn't obvious, to avoid the messy formatting of a straight copy-paste, I did that first one in bits, one by one.

Mind giving me a reason why I would purposefully change a timestamp to respond to a QT instantaneously?

[SensFan]

I did it in bits. As in "write Chaco's name. Copy copy his timestamp, paste it. Go copy the post, paste it. Write Sens' name. Copy his timestamp, paste it. Go copy his post, paste it. etc..."

So clearly I copied the same timestamp twice.

---

As for your 'point' in post 50, please read the bit you bolded. Yes, actually read it. I know you don't like going into details like that, but quite clearly the second quote by Chaco is not addressed to me.

---

If you bothered to read my reasons for voting in Lovers, you wouldn't be asking me why I don't do the same here.

[SensFan]

Because the formatting when you do that looks terrible, and makes it hard to read at a glance, or skim. You'll notice I formatted it in a much more linear way.

But again, I did copy-paste the whole thing later.

---

The fact you are after me about this, when there's someone alive who has lied about his claimed lover, and lied about doctoring his QT makes me very uneasy.

[SensFan]

Ehh, it might just be me, but it doesn't come out bad from my computer.

Sure there are two suspicious claims, but you're the only one that looks really edited.

I know your meta, you get very easily irritated at people, remember, an unvote is possible

Look at when I actually copy-pasted, it's all jumbled and very hard to quickly read.

And why would I unvote someone who has obviously lied twice, the more damning of which he refuses to admit to?

[SensFan]

I'm not talking about you unvoting..

--

He already explained the 3 person thing.. But both of you are suspicious.

unvote

HoS: Sens & DN

until further notice

I know he explained his lie about his Lover.
I'm talking about the fact he doctored his QT and refuses to admit it.

Call it WIFOM if you want, but if I was Scum who went out of my way to bring a breaking strategy into the game, I'd have made a fake QT well ahead of time, and wouldn't have inserted 2 posts in the same minute.

[SensFan]

I'm not sure any Town player could actually read the set-up and think its 3-3-6. I suspect that may have been added as a "what the hell would Town people be talking about?" thing.

[SensFan]

Game 76, (over before 604, as per the thread title), post 20 by Adel in iso. The game is the first running of this set-up, I believe.

I did spend a bit of time trying to figure out the best way to explain the scumtell I have against zombie slayer and biochomp. I could've just said "they admitted to talking pregame" but I don't think that would've made much sense to most of you.

I intended it to partially clear a few couples, starting with dcorbe and Panzerjager.


When I designed this game I intended for each lover group to be able to daytalk, since there is no night phase. I forgot to explain that, so only pregame conversation happened. That got me thinking about what kind of difference that would make. Each group of lovers was assigned a quicktopic thread. Scum have more motivation to plan and analyse the setup before the game start -- they had to get their story straight. A group of four people given a quicktopic thread will usually have a couple of people who are active, and a couple who isn't. When I am scum I like to talk and talk and plan as much as I can. When I am in a scum group of three there is almost always one player who doesn't bother to talk much at all, and that is when we use the mafiascum PM system with its default email notification. Quicktopic's email notification is not on by default. Out of the four scum, probably two turned up and were active, and they partnered up.

That's the relevant bit, anyways. Basically, I agree with the theory that Scum have mroe reason to talk pregame than Town do, and so will probably talk more.

---

You said earlier that the numbers made sense to you, Adel. Had you caught that, or were you just trying to give people (ie: Scum) the impression that you had?

[SensFan]

I was just bringing up the theory you had, since I agree with it. I figured it was easier to do it like that, than be accused of only bringing it up if it served my goals after the QTs had been posted.

Adel, did you at any time in the pre-game ask the Mod if you could:
*Quote your dialogue in your QT?
*Quote the title of your QT?
*Post a screenshot of your QT?
*Ask about the legality of any other attempts to 'solve' the game that I haven't mentioned?

[SensFan]

I know screenshots are illegal, and I know quoting the team number is illegal.

I'm asking if you asked about quoting of any of the above, including just straight dialogue from the QT.

[SensFan]

sorry, "yes" was supposed to cover everything, except for the title.

Alright.

And don't think I'm tunelling on you, or focussing on you, or even that I think you're scummy, necessarily. I'm just trying to get some hunts into your alignment, since I have vastly more meta on you than anyone else, and I also think you will be the most helpful player, if Town.

[SensFan]

I want DarkLightA to answer first, and for him to name who answers next. The order of listing the scumminess of the claims will proceed in popcorn fashion from there.

Reading is tech.

[SensFan]

What do people think of the possibility that Cuetlachtli (who was apparently VERY active pre-game) has requested replacement because Zazie 'made' him say something he doesn't appreciate?

[SensFan]

What other reason could there be?

He's been active around the site, posting in other games, never posted in this thread, and replaced out soon after Zazie posted a dialogue he has (that makes him look like he didn't read the first post).

[SensFan]

It's not an assumption, its an educated guess.
Without Cops in this set-up, the best we can do is make an educated guess.

[SensFan]

hmmm...

Are you purposefully playing against your meta?

[SensFan]

Before we start, SensFan, care to share your plan?

What plan?
Why is my QT suspicious?

[SensFan]

The plan was to quote the QTs. Was that not obvious?
Why is my QT suspicious?

[SensFan]

If they're thinking I said anything in the QT that I didn't post into the thread, they're morons. It's more than obvious that you were talking to Dramonic in that last post.

For reference, Dramonic, in between the two Chaco posts, told us (presumably in response to the question I asked him by PM) that we could quote the dialogue in the QT, but not him. Chaco misinterpretted that, and thought Dramonic had said we COULD quote him, thus "we can quote you and auto clear ourself", and then Dramonic clarified that no, we couldn't quote him.

[SensFan]

Take three.

Why is my QT suspicious?

[SensFan]

Ah.

Yeah. Trust me. If I was Scum and had come up with the plan to quote QTs, I would have done one hell of a better editing job than the crude editing some of you seem to think I would do.

[SensFan]

DarkLight, you still have yet to explain why I would doctor a QT to have someone respond to a question in the same minute. Something that's basically impossible.

Especially given the reason for the error I've given is more than realistic.

[SensFan]

Ha Ha.... Ohh No!!! Yabba caught me! I claimed the wrong lover! Ok even if I was being serious in that first post, how is that scummy at all?

Scum have more than 1 Lover.

Mod: Are you absolutely positively certain that you did not give DeathNote a Jester PM, by accident?

[SensFan]

What the fuck? Since when can I not paraphrase what the Mod tells me? Oops, guess you might as well modkill everyone that said they were a Lover, or who their Lover is.

Oh, and you can also modkill Adel for telling me you said we couldn't screenshot, and that you said we could quote the QTs.

Oh look, you just modkilled the entire game.

[SensFan]

Oh, and I just checked the QuickTopic, Mod. You don't mention anything about paraphrasing.

[SensFan]

Either modkill me and Adel and end the game, or don't modkill anyone.

If ridiculously dumb modding practices are going to be used, at least use them fairly.

[SensFan]

Adel was obvscum in this one.

As for the modkill thing, I think discussing it is rather pointless, I'm pretty certain that the only reason I was modkilled and Adel wasn't is that he was Scum and I was Town. (Nothing against Adel on that note, that was bad modding.)

And nothing against the Scum, you played well, but I don't think you would have won if the mod hadn't handed it to you.

[SensFan]

There are hard feelings at this point, I'm not going to lie. I felt a few things in this game involved poor modding. In the interest of turning this into a learning experience, I'll list off the ones I can remember:

*Allowing QT-quoting. That was a fairly big mistake, and in all honesty, if it had been an experienced mod running this, I wouldn't have even bothered asking. Adel being Scum is probably one of the only things that salvaged this, since I have no doubts he is probably the best at MS at faking such communication.

*Modkilling me. Your rules never actually include that I couldn't paraphrase things you said in the QT, for reference, but that's largely beside the point. That rule in general is absolutely terrible, since any form of claiming breaks it, as does trivial things like I did, which really only serve to expedite what would happen if, instead, everyone PM'd you asking about quoting QTs, for instance. The fact you didn't modkill the one person that actually quoted you in his QT compounds this problem.

*Mod bias. Tied to the previous one, but I feel this merits a topic of its own. There is no way you can look at Adel's explanation of your PM responses to him (whether fabricated or not) and look at my explanation of your response to my question, and modkill for one and not the other. As I said in my last post, I feel strongly that (perhaps subconsciously) you only held back form modkilling Adel because it seemed a harsh way to end the game. Really, so did your modkill. The Town didn't really have a chance in this game with only one lynch.

Maybe more later.

[SensFan]

Sens,did you really talk our mod into allowing Qt quoting? Fantastic irony. You know, just once I would like to be able to defeat you without reading long complaints from you in the post game.

Not in the slighest.

"Can we quote our QTs?"
"Sure. Not my posts in the QT, though."

And you still have yet to answer to the point that there is no rule against paraphrasing what Dramonic said in the QT. None.

And don't try and imply that I think your wins aren't deserved, you know I think you're one of the best players on-site. It just so happens that both games you've beat me as Scum in featured a mod-controlled game due to modkills.

I don't feel I "brought the mod into the game" at all. I asked a question, and got a straight answer. I spent several PMs clarifying exactly what I could and could not do. Never was a rule about paraphrasing the QTs brought to my attention, either in-thread, by PM, or in my QT.

[SensFan]

Adel, that talks of PMs.

[SensFan]

Your right.... that is probably why I am lynched early every game. However, I am not the type of person to be able to come up with clever defenses to accusations such as "You lied!" or "You altered your QT!"

I maintain that its not possible to higlight the entire QT, and not get the names.

[SensFan]

and I do not like how you brought a ListMod (EmpTyger) into this. I think that you are better than that.

Don't go around throwing random accusations without backing. I had nothing to do with EmpTyger getting involved, he contacted me.