Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[cruelty]

another kiwi huh


i'm here

[cruelty]

Nah, I'm a kiwi. Alf Stewart transcends national boundaries.

[cruelty]

Mod: I'll be V/LA over the next four days. Don't replace me, I'll have plenty of time to catch up.

V/LA is noted.

[cruelty]

Am back, will catch up tonight or tomorrow.

Want my RVS though:

vote:Scott Brosius

[cruelty]

Bleh. That was an uninteresting read. I hate the early game.

I find you questionable WJ, I'd vote you but I'm uneasy about pushing a wagon this early. So you just get

FoS

ed. Also your enormous posts with heaps of empty space are very irritating to scroll through for very little content. More conciseness please.

Squirrel your post 146 is strange. Not going to read into it, but noted for future reference.

vote: Haylen

. Bunch of useless posts, no content whatsoever.


I don't feel particularly compelled to comment on anyone else right now, I have a couple ideas cooking but I'll hold off for a bit, not really convinced of their validity yet.

[cruelty]

Umm...the game has barely started.

So?

[cruelty]

Well, there's not really much to post about when the game starts is there?

You have posted literally nothing of note. Out of 28 (24 during the actual game) posts in the thread, there's been literally no game-relevant content from you.

[cruelty]

vote: Haylen. Bunch of useless posts, no content whatsoever.

In that case, we should be suspicious of you too. Shouldn't we?

FoS: cruelty

(for post 156)

You could be, if I hadn't been V/LA for a few days as stated very early in the thread. Skim reading is scummy.

[cruelty]

I've never been scum, but I assume I'd still read the thread as thoroughly as town. The FoS was because I wasn't too impressed with your catch-up post. Don't use your vacation as an excuse for your lack of content. There is nothing stopping you from making a good post. Not even a vacation.

Hahaha.


There's very little being said right now that I feel compelled to comment on. Most of the thread seems to be taken up by your wall posts which are ironically light on content and heavy on the enter key.

[cruelty]

Also, interesting softclaim in the quote above.

[cruelty]

Hahaha.


There's very little being said right now that I feel compelled to comment on. Most of the thread seems to be taken up by your wall posts which are ironically light on content and heavy on the enter key.

Then why are you voting Haylen for her limited content?

Haylen doesn't have limited content. Haylen has

no

content. This is worth a vote.

[cruelty]

Oh.

That softclaim post was meant to be in another game, I try to post in all my games at once and I guess I clicked the wrong tab. My bad.


Moving on.


Haylen, you still haven't contributed. A half-assed answer and some bullshit about spoiler tags is not contribution. My vote stands.


Wicked can you explain why you keep bringing up how experienced you are at mafia? There's no good reason except to imply superiority/establish a leadership role.

Ok. I'll bite and answer these questions, hopefully to prove I am not mafia.

SB quoted this above and basically said what I'm going to say, but I'll reiterate. This makes me a little uneasy (there are a couple more instances within that post where you say something along very similar lines) because it instantly implies a defensive stance. That's fine, but if your entire reason for posting is defence, then your town-status becomes instantly questionable.

[cruelty]

Haylen, you still haven't contributed. A half-assed answer and some bullshit about spoiler tags is not contribution. My vote stands.

Ok. Let's put it this way. I'll give you a riddle. You're in a game on page ten that is nowhere near deadline. You're in another game, you're at L-1 as is another guy, everybody is voting and you have less that 24 hours to convince somebody to change their vote from yourself to the other guy. Where do you concentrate your efforts for those 24 hours?

That's less of a riddle and more a bad excuse in the form of a question. Woe is me I am so overwhelmed.

I'm in 4 games currently, one of which is in lylo and I'm at least making an effort to stay connected here.

I find it hard to believe that you can't find the time to put together a few quick thoughts for this game whilst you're waiting for people to reply in the other thread. I mean really, how hard is it to at least read the thread and put together some quick thoughts?

You've managed to post about 30 times in this game, how come you've offered no opinions on anything game related?




Katniss how much importance do you place on an FoS? It occurs to me that someone that worried about what in reality amounts to basically nothing (FoS is essentially meaningless as anything other than a fairly weak intimidation tool) is probably more likely to be scum than not.

[cruelty]

HAYLEN IS A GIRL.
LOOK AT THE AVATAR.
LOOK AT THE LITTLE PINK SYMBOL.

FEMALE
FEMALE
FEMAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't make that mistake again. Seriously.

My excuses are not inconsistant. I play in quite a few games, they're all in different stages of progress. (I won the game that was in lylo:D). Would you like me to give details of how i was sick, cause i'm not having anybody telling me im lying about that when i felt so fucking rough for 3 days and was slipping in and out of consciousness for one of those days. I never said im in lylo in the game im currently in, I said there are 8 players, votes are split 4|4 and i now have until midnight to convince people not to lynch me. If you dont believe me, go to my wiki and find my current games, go check those games and the time frames and you will see at no point was i lying.

kthanxbai

This is actually ridiculous. You have time to closely analyse a post and find a single spelling error, then you have time to flip out about it, then you have time to defend yourself (badly), then you have time to discuss your illness, then you have time to direct us towards your meta, then you have time to discuss an ongoing game, and you still make a little time to reiterate that you're not lying?

[cruelty]

Look you still haven't commented on anything relevant, your defence is a bunch of crap about how it's too hard for you to post because you have another game going on, and now, regardless of what you say, you're OMGUSing me.

[cruelty]

I found the game that Haylen was talking about. The funny thing is, it is in night time right now. In fact, the night in that game started before she made these posts;

Umm...you do realise that A LOT of players dont post during the weekend? And that I haven't posted in ANY of my games over the past 2 days, including the one I'm modding? hmm...gotta do a few votecounts there.

My first thoughts are that Wicked and Cruelty seem to be finding every little thing they can to cast suspicion on me. Yes, you found that game...did you read it? Did you notice how easy it is to get me lynched? I think that the fact you would know I'm an easy target from that and you're going after me suggests a scumtell.

Cruelty has been misrepping me horribly. How could my defenses me inconsistant? If you checked my games and the dates of what I was telling you, you would see that im telling the truth. I also didn't post in any games during the time that I was off ill. So, I actually have mathematical evidence (*shudder*) to suggest that I am telling the truth.

I needed a break this weekend so I could go and visit my cousin. She's 3 months old, with a hole in her heart. She means the world to me, I've been distraught since I found out, and seeing her on friday was overwhelmingly distressing.

Also, I joined so many games, mainly to help out the mods, but in one I have to prove myself capable of doing something. Don't ask. I don't want to go into it.

I have trouble being organised due to personal reasons, which im also not going into. This includes poor time management and not knowing my limits.

1: Sorry about your cousin.
2: How am I misrepresenting you?
3: Regardless of issues, online or offline, you joined this game and are expected to provide content, which you still haven't.

I am not in anyway trying to mislead people here - I am voting for you because you haven't contributed to the thread. That's it, it's very simple. This is a black and white case; you either have contributed or you haven't, no grey area.



Katniss I don't see a whole lot of conviction from you. My concern is that you're easily lead/pressured, which from a townie perspective is about as bad as it could possibly be (assuming you're town, if you're scum, keep on as you are).

[cruelty]

DN is mostly right about non-contributing. If its being used, its being used. Apply it equally to all unless you are good enough to subtely get away with it. This is not getting away with it.

For the record I don't necessarily want a Haylen lynch, I want less Haylen spam and more Haylen content.

I would like a SJ or cruel wagon.

Is that me or CrueKnight?

[cruelty]

I think voting for someone means you want them lynched. Then again im not really into the 'hip and trendy' lifestyles that are going on now adays. Does 'dont necessarily want' mean 'would like to have' in today groovy slang?

Right so you're not willing to concede the possibility that votes can be used as pressure?


I wasn't actually asking to clarify whether or not you wanted me lynched, I wanted to know why. Subtlety is not my strong suit.

[cruelty]

I don't have a read due to lack of content, hence the vote.

[cruelty]

Ok now we are starting to get somewhere. So Haylen is a neutral read given lack of content. Why her over other neutral reads?

Because I only have one vote, and the others with a lack of content don't have 30+ posts. She has had the opportunity to contribute, but hasn't. Thus, she's #1 on the list.


And I said I don't necessarily want her lynched - if she suddenly came alive and was pro-town, scumhunting all over the place then I'd have no issue with her. I don't think this is going to miraculously happen though, so in that case then I'm happy to see her strung up. All I'm trying to do is push her into getting into the game. I'm not going to let her coast by on a path of smilies and facepalms.

[cruelty]

Faraday has future knowledge, therefore in Faraday I trust.

For the point - Cruelty, removing everything regarding lurking/fluff, what do you think of Haylen? 

Why are we removing these things when they're both scummy?

They are applicable to multiple people. Its worth noting where his vote would be if everyones activity level was the exact same, as these are more core (and reliable) tells. Also if he is putting Haylen-town ahead of scum players primarily due to this, then thats a whole 'nother tell on its own.

Haylen-town?

My vote is where it is, I'm not sure what you want from me? The second-most scummy player on my list? I aint gonna delve into that. I'm not ruling out the possibility that she's town, but I'm happy enough with my vote given 4 things.

1: The lack of content preceding my attack.
2: The lack of content following my attack.
3: The OMGUS vote that she claimed wasn't OMGUS (lol??).
4: Her reaction. Very, very defensive, bad excuses, etc etc.


I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand Furry - this isn't a case of my voting a lurker, this is a case of Haylen active lurking. Not only that, but there's been absolutely no attempt to rectify the situation. This would have made my vote go away - a couple of juicy posts with a bunch of thoughts would have been enough to compel me to move on to someone else, this never happened. I don't understand why, but I don't like it and thus the vote stays.

Also if he is putting Haylen-town ahead of scum players primarily due to this, then thats a whole 'nother tell on its own.

Huh?

I don't know why you're defending her, unless you're privy to some information I don't have. Thus far she's contributed nothing and this somehow isn't worth a vote? This isn't scummy? Are you serious?

the first several pages are messy full of jokes and non-sense.

Tend to agree with this. Tedious to read (although Wicked's walls are worse...) and filled with little to no relevant information. Don't really think revisiting the early game is going to illuminate anything. That doesn't mean you don't have to justify a vote, though.

Katniss's lack of position on everything, pretty much, is worrying, though some of her posts do give me a generally newb town read.

This I also agree on. I am not ruling her out as scum, but I think that her posts thus far seem like someone who is not confident with the game yet.


foilist we meet again...

[cruelty]

cruelty:

I find you questionable WJ, I'd vote you but I'm uneasy about pushing a wagon this early. So you just get FoSed. Also your enormous posts with heaps of empty space are very irritating to scroll through for very little content. More conciseness please.

Why were you uneasy about pushing the WJ wagon so early? Do you believe an FOS has any utility at all?

Still would like an answer to this.

Sorry, didn't see it.

1: I don't like the very early game. I think it's easy to misread the active players as scummy (often there's an early game town vs town battle) so I'm hesitant about voting for outspoken players early on. I saw in Wicked a fairly controversial style of play and the potential for an early wagon, didn't want to push this.

2: FoS... I have mixed thoughts. Mid-game, I don't put much stock in it, end-game I think it can be used to point suspicion at scum pairings (eg: vote: X and FoS: Y) although I think you have to be careful with that. Early game is the only place I'm really comfortable using it, I tend to think of it as a non-aggressive note to a player that they should tread lightly.

Ok see now I get it a bit. 1 and 4 I dont see as tells at all, in fact I would be happy policy lynching anyone who uses "overdefensive" as a tell, worst tell ever. 2 I can see, but I think people acting scummy > not contributing, also I dont think the case is as OMGUS as you think it is. Everyone thinks something against them is more unfounded/OMGUSy then it is.

Eh, I'll just agree to disagree with you re: being defensive.

The OMGUS,

I was fucking defending myself. That's the whole point of the damn game.

vote cruelty

Strawmanning and misrep.

Then:

PS Haylen doesnt do OMGUS.

Yeah I guess you're right, there's no OMGUS there.

[cruelty]

I am going to keep my vote on CrueKnight, but I would prefer to lynch foilist, Furry, or Katniss.

Why are you voting for someone who isn't even in your top three?

If not we need to orginize something. I dont like the CK wagon in the least bit, and the Haylen wagon doesnt look too great either.

Make a case and push it. This looks you putting down a soapbox that you can stand on tomorrow in the event of a mislynch.

[cruelty]

Don't buy the claim. I also note the complete lack of content despite it being asked for and promised numerous times. Coupled with the woe is me whining, I like this lynch.

Mal, elaborate please.

Furry often the point of a pressure vote is to get a read - I personally never had a town read on Haylen, and her reaction hasn't impressed me at all.

[cruelty]

lol @ haylen. grudge kill? bringing in the chuckles. i was wrong about your alignment but you played fucking atrociously.

vote: mal

Basically anonymous yesterday, a few vote changes and most notably hopped onto the Haylen wagon very late and without any real explanation. You got some questions to answer.

[cruelty]

This is how I play, I get a town read and im going to all out defend the town read.

I don't really like people defending others. There's no real reason to do it as town (provided the person in question has an opportunity to defend themselves) and multiple reasons to do it as scum. Don't misunderstand - I have no issue with attacking a case, but you've definitively said that CK is town, and this is an example of a personal defence. To the point where there's been attacks coming in at him, and he hasn't replied at all today.

Hell I know what happens in these scenarios too, if they get lynched I get ran up. If I can stop the lynch though its worth it.

How is it worth it if you (as town) get "ran up" anyway? Surely that'd be a) a massive distraction for town (pro-scum) and b) a mislynch and again, pro-scum.

I don't like this stance in general. Defence won't win the battle for town, we need scumhunting, and regardless of CK's alignment, you're not actually contributing to this. You look busy, but I'm not sure how much actual pro-town content you're firing out.

First off, I wouldnt ever of voted DN for that scenario,

using others to get reads on him is better

.

How would you suggest others get those reads? He has no incentive to post as lurking scum with no pressure on him.

He looks to be the biggest bandwagon that I actually prefer, and we only have three days

You voted for CK.. fine. After that you never even mentioned the Haylen wagon. I find this highly contradictory to your playstyle throughout the game - you've been quoting and replying to basically everything, so how come you had nothing to say about a wagon building on someone who wasn't in your

top 4 suspects

? Not only that, but you're content with voting for your 4th placed suspect purely because it's a bandwagon. I really, really don't like this.

I am going to keep my vote on CrueKnight, but I would prefer to lynch foilist, Furry, or Katniss.

Then

He's number 4 and I'm guessing there's at least 4 scum. Also, I doubt I would be able to convince everybody to change this close to deadline and none of my top three suspects seem to be big bandwagon candidates.

This sort of apathy towards who gets lynched reeks of scum for me. I think I would be a lot less suspicious of you had you at least attacked the Haylen wagon - obviously you must have thought it a mislynch if she wasn't in your top 4 suspects - or actively pushed an alternate case, but you did neither. Explain.

[cruelty]

I would say I find his behaviour the most questionable.

[cruelty]

I gave reasons for my suspicions of my top 3. They were completely ignored. Is that my fault? Also, we were close to deadline, and I didn't want to waste time trying to persuade players to jump on one of my top three bandwagons, because, I doubted my capability of being able to do so in such short time, and if I wasted time doing that, we would have even less time to switch to another bandwagon if somebody claimed a PR.

So basically you were apathetic. Ok.

I don't know that I was correct on all of my main suspects. I think I am right on at least 1 or 2 of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few people I thought were town ended up flipping scum. In fact there are a few players I am going to be watching closely today that weren't in my top 3. Also, think about it. Would you rather I be the only person voting Furry a few days before deadline with only a few other players showing interest? How would that help?


Also, cruelty, what do you mean by:

Attacking the Haylen wagon.
and
Actively pushing an alternative case.

...?

I really don't care too much where your vote is as long as you have decent justification for it.

And are you serious? I am saying, if you didn't like the Haylen lynch (which you obviously didn't, given that you were supporting another wagon) then you should have actively pushed for a lynch that you did support, or at least seriously voiced concerns.

[cruelty]

cruelty, could your suspicion of malpascp be summarized as not contributing much?

vote: mal

Basically anonymous yesterday, a few vote changes and most notably hopped onto the Haylen wagon very late and without any real explanation. You got some questions to answer.

Could your questions be summarised as inane and redundant?

Didn't I give reasons for my vote for CrueKnight? What was wrong with those reasons?

This:

I am going to keep my vote on CrueKnight, but I would prefer to lynch foilist, Furry, or Katniss.

You were on a wagon you knew wouldn't result in a lynch, you were off a wagon that hyposcumWicked knew would result in a mislynch. Being on the CK wagon effectively buddies you a little with the others who were on there, thereby increasing your town cred and puts you in a position to criticise the people who voted for Haylen. Your case on CK in this scenario is really irrelevant, just useless squawking to disguise your actual motivation.

I mean, I can't see any motivation for town to be on a wagon that was obviously going to lose, purely because it was a wagon. Towns concern is, as someone (probably you, that'd be ironic) pointed out, catching scum. Looking innocent is nice and all, but is by far secondary to the overall goal of lynching scum. Therefore I seriously question your presence on CK's wagon.

I also note, and I find this particularly interesting, that once on CK's wagon (and let me quote this):

Unvote Vote: CrueKnight

He looks to be the biggest bandwagon that I actually prefer, and we only have three days.

you never once tried to push CK as a better lynch. Despite posting twice more before deadline. Doesn't add up.

unvote, vote: Wicked

Sir Chris do you know what OMGUS is? Also your arguments are simply useless, and some of them are purely wrong. This is the kind of post that I think its basicaly scum-talk.
I hope someone else understands how obvscum this guy is.

Make an actual case, this is vague accusations backed up by.. nothing. You were useless yesterday, you have a chance to make a contribution now. Please do so, especially if you think you've caught scum.

[cruelty]

Haha, wicked you're bringing out the chuckles today.

I just want some clarification. I wasn't sure if you would correct me for calling it just that. So, can I say that your case is just that he isn't contributing?

You can call it a pressure vote that failed. There is no case, just an observation that he's not contributing.

I didn't jump on the CrueKnight bandwagon purely because it was a bandwagon. That is another misrepresentation and you know it.

lol.

He looks to be the biggest bandwagon that I actually prefer, and we only have three days

Noted.

I knew I wouldn't get enough people to help lynch anybody else, so CK and Haylen were really my only two options. I voted CK, and I decided I'd just let all the other town members vote their preference and let the lynch be the one that the town most preferred.

So you decided against scumhunting until the end and instead just pitched your tent and hoped for the best? This is pro-town how?

Second of all, how were you pushing for the Haylen lynch? Your only post within three days of the deadline was this: (quote snipped)

Haha, really?

I started the Haylen wagon, and my final post before the deadline was confirmation that I was happy with it. That post was 14 hours before the day was closed. Not really sure how this is a valid point, you're attacking me for being happy with my vote on a wagon that I started and continually advocated? I mean, I was wrong about her alignment but this is a ludicrous attempt to incriminate me.

What I find funny is that had I jumped on the Haylen bandwagon, you most likely would have had no problems with it, as I believe there were several other players that did, and you didn't attack any of them.

I would have if you'd said that Haylen was only your fourth suspect.

You voted for your

fourth

suspect. You specifically stated you thought

three players to be more suspicious

and yet you just sat down on the CK wagon and went dark.

1: If I was interested with buddying with the players on a wagon, then I would have been better off voting Haylen.

2: Jumping on a bandwagon hardly increases town credit. If anything, it attracts suspicion. Like now.

3: I never criticised the people who voted for Haylen. This is a misrep.

1: Nope, I'd already questioned why you were voting for your fourth suspect, you couldn't shift to someone who was at best fifth on your list.

2: You jumped on a bandwagon that went nowhere. I suspect you knew it wouldn't amount to anything and used the opportunity to attempt to get onside with the players on it.

3: I never said you did. I said you put yourself in a position to. You're actually misrepping my argument. Amusing.



All of this followed up by what amounts to an OMGUS vote.

[cruelty]

rofl wicked. all post numbers in my iso.

For the record I don't necessarily want a Haylen lynch, I want less Haylen spam and more Haylen content.

I don't have a read due to lack of content, hence the vote.

And I said I don't necessarily want her lynched - if she suddenly came alive and was pro-town, scumhunting all over the place then I'd have no issue with her. I don't think this is going to miraculously happen though, so in that case then I'm happy to see her strung up. All I'm trying to do is push her into getting into the game. I'm not going to let her coast by on a path of smilies and facepalms.

My vote is where it is, I'm not sure what you want from me? The second-most scummy player on my list? I aint gonna delve into that. I'm not ruling out the possibility that she's town, but I'm happy enough with my vote given 4 things (snipped)

Does this, or does this not look like I was becoming more and more convinced of her guilt? Taking my quotes (specifically, the first one) out of context in an attempt to make them look bad is horribly, horribly scummy. Funny, though.

Why would you vote him for not contributing after we lynched a townie for that same reason?

Read him in iso. Tell me he isn't active lurking.

2: I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm saying its not anti-town.

So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

I have already explained this. You don't have to reiterate the point over and over again. I understand why you are attacking me.

Are you?

Also, why the heck would I want to get town credit from Scott Brosius and Torqez? You obviously didn't think this case through. If I am scum, then I just killed one of the two, leaving Torqez who has been the most quiet person in the game. Also, like I said, bandwagoning doesn't give you town credit.

Well, I presume there's more than one scum so it's conceivable that your partner(s) wanted him killed and you went along with it. This is a WIFOM deflection at best.

I didn't say bandwagoning gives you town credit. You were on a wagon that

wasn't a mislynch

. You specifically stated you wanted to be on a wagon despite not really liking CK as a lynch that much. There's absolutely no reason for town to do that.

Why would I want to critisize the people who were bandwagoning on somebody that I had previously been voting?

Seriously?

Let me lay this out for you because you apparently have no conception of what I'm saying.

actually I'm going to start a new post for this.

[cruelty]

When should we expect some content? Also, she has said that she has read the thread, so why hasn't she posted any content? Also, I find it hard to believe that she can't make any time for this game. Why did she even join so many games? VistaSoldier still remains a big suspect of mine, but I would like Haylen to come out and do something and explain the inconsistincies.

Unvote Vote: Haylen

Then your 34 was a bunch of quotes and replies, mostly directed at Haylen. And this:

@DeathNote - The case against Haylen isn't just non contribution.

People I'd Be Willing to Lynch:

Wickedestjr - He is incredibly scummy. I just don't know if others feel the same way.
Furry - SolemnJ's case combined with gut both make be suspicious of Furry.
VistaSoldier - See my reasons for voting him earlier.
Katniss - I don't like his wishy-washiness. Also, there is something else I noticed, but his most recent post in response to me didn't give me enough evidence regarding it. I'm waiting for his next good post.


People That May be Good Lynch Choices:

CrueKnight - My earlier case.
Haylen - See my last few posts in response to Haylen.

Still voting Haylen at this point, no problems yet. Post 36 is entirely directed at CK.

Also, I forgot to Unvote Vote: VistaSoldier. I still find him more suspicious than Furry or Katniss.

Right so this is contradictory - you specifically stated that you had two players who you thought would be better lynches (CK and Haylen, as per the above quote). Why didn't you even mention them?

Also, Haylen posted no content at all between your vote for her and this post, her only post was about her real life dramas and a little bit of moaning that the two of us were attacking her. You didn't get an answer to your questions, so I'm not sure why you unvoted. Moving on.

Unvote Vote: CrueKnight

He looks to be the biggest bandwagon that I actually prefer, and we only have three days. I'm going to start catching up now.
(snip)

I am going to keep my vote on CrueKnight, but I would prefer to lynch foilist, Furry, or Katniss.

Let's examine what just happened and lay it out nicely in chronological order.

1: Wicked votes for Haylen.
2: Wicked notes that the case against Haylen isn't just non-contribution, and states that Haylen is one of two good lynches, the other being CK.
3: Wicked suddenly and without warning votes for Vista, no mention of either Haylen or CK.
4: Wicked gets in a battle with Rhinox (MrSquirrel's replacement) - I didn't quote this because the posts are lengthy. IMO he's squarely on the back foot. He actually specifically states "I'm going to move Rhinox/Mr. Squirrel to the "People That May be Good Lynch Choices" category." So I guess we now have Haylen, CK and Rhinox here?
5: Wicked votes CK. This would be in line with what he stated earlier (CK being a good lynch choice) if it wasn't followed later in the post by the statement that he'd prefer to lynch one of three (three!) other people.
6: Wicked flips out on Sir Chris and doesn't even mention the CK/Haylen wagons. Strange, methinks.
7: Day ends.

I'm not going to post my thoughts on this, it's pretty obvious from previous posts what I think, so I'll leave the analysis up to other people. There are some pretty glaring inconsistencies and downright strange changes of heart in there though.

Please read him in iso.

As for answering this:

Why would I want to critisize the people who were bandwagoning on somebody that I had previously been voting?

Scum would love to be in a position whereby they can attack townies who were on a wagon that resulted in a mislynch.

[cruelty]

Completely destroyed my case? What?

You're quoting me out of context and deliberately misinterpreting me. A lot. This isn't so much destroying as it is deflecting and misrepping. But that's fine.


Examples! I hear you cry.

1: Well, I presume there's more than one scum so it's conceivable that your partner(s) wanted him killed and you went along with it. This is a WIFOM deflection at best.

2: I didn't say bandwagoning gives you town credit. You were on a wagon that wasn't a mislynch. You specifically stated you wanted to be on a wagon despite not really liking CK as a lynch that much. There's absolutely no reason for town to do that.

1: First of all, nobody voted CK after I did. So I don't know what you meant by having my scumbuddies going along with it. Also, how could I have possibly planned this out? Odds are if I am scum, then some of my scumbuddies would have been on the Haylen lynch, so all these points look like grasping at straws now that I've completely destroyed your case.

2: So you are saying it would give me town credit for not being on the mislynch? If so, then this is also a bad point, because if anything, it would be better for me to go with what the majority went if I was really worrying about this.

Ok.

1: Let me lay this out. Hyposcum-wicked knows that the people on the CK wagon are town. Being on that wagon gives him cred with them (it does, people like when other people agree with them). Hyposcum-wicked's partner(s?) don't like something Scott said, and want him lynched. Hyposcum-wicked shrugs, knowing (well, believing) he can't be implicated. Scott dies, cruelty questions Hyposcum-wicked about being on the bandwagon, Hyposcum-wicked points out that Scott died and he therefore must be innocent. Cruelty notes that this isn't a viable defence, Hyposcum-wicked misreps cruelty.

2: WIFOM/misrep. You specifically stated that you wanted to be on a bandwagon, you also specifically stated that you weren't feeling the CK lynch, in the same post you joined his wagon. Why would town do this? There's literally no logical reason.

1: So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? 2: Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

1: Where the heck did I say that? Stop twisting my words scum.
2: This has absolutely nothing to do with my survival. I wasn't even on the chopping block Day 1. Quit imagining.

1: I didn't say you said that. This is again misrepresentation. I was asking if you would agree that occasionally (or even often?) scum will act in a null or pro-town manner in order to survive.

2: As Rhinox said, I was talking hypothetically. The point I was making was that scum doesn't necessarily always act anti-town; they'd be identified fairly quickly and easily. Interesting response, though.

Nope, Haylen and CK were below Furry, VistaSoldier, and Katniss on my scumlist.

I read "people that may be good lynch choices" as more important that "people I'd be willing to lynch". This is interesting though.

Scum would love to be in a position whereby they can attack townies who were on a wagon that resulted in a mislynch.

This is another bad point.

How so? It's maybe slightly WIFOMish but I don't think any rational person would disagree with it.


Also, just noticed this.

However, I think both you and malpascp are town.

mal has nine posts in this entire game. 9 posts in 23 pages. How can you possibly have a read on him? Buddying (with SirChris, probably trying to clear your scumbuddy mal).



This (below) isn't an attack, just a question.

Why would you vote him for not contributing after we lynched a townie for that same reason?

So you're going to allow people to lurk because Haylen didn't contribute, got lynched for it and flipped town? Explain how this is a good policy.

[cruelty]

For the record, I view cruelty's main point against you as more damning than your point against him - that you voted for the ck bandwagon rather than any one of your top 3 suspects. But I also accept your response - that it was nearly deadline and you wanted to put your vote on one of the top 2 wagons. I disagree with cruelty's point that you chose ck somehow knowing that it wouldn't lead to a lynch, or that you wanted to buddy with anyone as a result.

I don't think anyone is really understanding what I'm saying about his presence on the CK wagon. This is my bad, I'll try to explain one more time.

I don't think that it particularly mattered to scumwicked which wagon he was on. CK was probably better because as he stated, he'd made a case against him earlier.

When the Haylen wagon began to veer precariously close to the cliff edge Wicked wasn't trying to push the CK wagon, he'd found a corner and sat down, eyes close and hands over ears. He made absolutely no attempt to get CK lynched, aside from being present on the wagon.

I did say earlier that I thought he chose the wagon because he didn't expect it to amount to anything and it'd give him cred with the other players on it - this was bad logic on my part. Conceded. That said, his presence on that wagon (he made no attempt to either push it or jump off) would absolutely result in gaining some sort of town cred, be that in general, from not being on the mislynch wagon, or amongst the smaller subset of the players on the CK wagon.

I think that this credibility deal was a byproduct of his late day anti-town behaviour. That is to say, his voting for someone way down on his scum list, and his absolute non-contribution to either pushing that wagon, attacking the Haylen wagon or general scumhunting. I think that he may have realised the potential for some town points and decided to go dark to try to reap the benefits in the morning.

[cruelty]

He couldn't have predicted that haylen's would lead to a lynch while ck's would not,

Right, conceded the poor logic on my part. In his initial decision, it's probable that credibility didn't come into it. If you look at his posts following his jump onto the wagon, he said/did nothing about either wagon. This is the point where I think the credibility issue becomes valid.

cruelty: what is the difference between wicked's vote on ck and foilist's vote on haylen "picking a wagon in the interest of the approaching deadline"?

Well I agreed with foilist's reason for voting. I also missed the actual "picking a wagon" part, so I guess it's slightly better but not hugely.


I mean, I probably wouldn't have much of an issue if wicked had just said he was picking a wagon, voted CK and then proceeded to scumhunt/push the wagon/attack the other wagon, but he did none of those and went so far as to say he was voting for his fourth suspect. This is terribly anti-town, and absolutely irrevocable fact.

I feel like there are a few people getting away with lurking here. I'll get on board with a mal lynch if needed.

[cruelty]

sigh @ foilist.

Agreed. But what is there to do if I've already cast my vote? Anyone who has not voted should.

There's more than one scum, use the time to question other players. There is, of course, also the possibility that you're wrong so continuing to seek information is never, ever a bad thing.

[cruelty]

We were few days away from deadline, and I didn't think I could convince anybody to vote anybody other than CK or Haylen since they were the two most popular bandwagons.

This right here is a scumtell. You didn't even try - you were happy with someone you didn't really want lynched (relatively) and you didn't attempt to scumhunt/push the wagon after your vote. A few days is ample opportunity to build a convincing case. The fact that you were apathetic about who was ultimately lynched is hugely scummy.

I had a gut read telling me that Haylen was town

Why didn't you try to stop her lynch then?

cruelty made the comment that he had started the wagon after I had made a comment regarding his stance.

Haylen (7) - cruelty, Faraday, Rhinox, foilist13, Sir Chris, malpascp, The Inquisition

My name is there first. I was first on the wagon. Therefore, I think I can legitimately claim to have started it. I attacked Haylen first, I pressured her, resulting in an OMGUS vote on me, which result in everyone else piling on. I didn't initially want her lynched, I was voting/attacking to try to get her involved in the game - she flipped out and everyone else voted for different reasons to my original vote. How is this hard to understand?

(Stepping out of the game for a sec, I find it sort of weird that I'm under attack for claiming to have started a mislynch wagon, heh).

cruelty has rose to the top of my suspect list, mostly because of today's actions plus a few sudden epiphanies.

The absence of elaboration (specifically regarding these "epiphanies") makes me wonder why you'd even say this - you think I'm suspicious and you've had these mind blowing realisations, yet you aren't sharing them? This isn't the wicked I know.

Lurking/not contributing is a stupid reason to lynch a player for in general anyway. How is that opinion "unbelievably bad"?

1: It sets a precedent for scum; lurk and we won't lynch you.
2: Lack of contribution is pro-town how?

We're now 5 days from deadline

Yeah, wicked you should probably pick a bandwagon now.

Scott Brosius was an odd kill choice btw. Not sure if it makes CrueKnight more likely to be scum, probably slightly does I think. Sure it's WIFOM but meh, doesn't mean it's entirely useless to speculate on.

It kinda is, without a scumflip it's just random speculation with no way to conclusively tie players together. Dislike.

Personally, if we were to go with a lynch for non-contribution/lurking I am looking at cades mostly, possibly dana.

You're probably right. Unfortunately in addition to what was basically active lurking, your slot has behaved pretty oddly all game. I am willing to get onto the mal/kunk wagon if the wicked one comes to nothing. This will be a deadline day thing though.


CrueKnight I've looked through your recent posts and you've contributed basically nothing. Can you please present a case on who you want lynched and why?

I'm still here, just watching, waiting.

You still there? You intend on actually participating or wsup?

[cruelty]

I had a gut read telling me that Haylen was town

Why didn't you try to stop her lynch then?

Maybe you'd know if you hadn't gotten rid of the rest of that sentence:

I had a gut read telling me that Haylen was town, but the evidence pointing to scumHaylen was just too much for me to follow my gut read, so that's why I had her high up on my list of suspects.

Stop taking me out of context scum.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping for. Nice deflection.

You had her high on your list, still not top 4. Why then, despite the presence of a gut read, did you not pursue the possibility that Haylen was town in order to prevent her lynch?

Conversely, given this gut town read on the most popular wagon, why did you not try to push the CK wagon over the last few days? Why did you go into shutdown mode? Limited time is not an excuse here, it's bad, bad play to apathetically let someone you suspect is town get lynched.

If that doesn't work, what's pushing at deadline going to do? It'll only slow things down.

Wouldn't this be a GOOD thing? You just stated you had a gut town-read on the wagon that eventually rolled to the mislynch.

[cruelty]

post, just checking in.

ah fuck it, wicked can wait. This chump is useless.

vote: cades

[cruelty]

Um.

unvote, vote cades

[cruelty]

I have decided (somewhat abruptly) that cades is much, much more detrimental than wicked. Let me quote his entire contribution to the game.

checking in

was Vigilante a townie?

I'm still here, just watching, waiting.

post, just checking in.

If we're going to lynch for lurking/non-contribution, let's shift the kunk/mal wagon onto this guy.

[cruelty]

Ok this is my stance right now.

mal was scummy through his lack of contribution as well as the spartan content he did produce.

wicked I just find scummy, illogical and full of omgus.

cades has produced no content, is actively (and unashamedly) lurking and is a liability.


I am absolutely willing to lynch any of the three. I will move my vote to any of the three if needed for a lynch, I will hammer.

Having said that, I won't do it yet - I want more discussion because I'm not really liking the apathy from the majority here; we definitely need to hear more from Furry (I don't like you letting cades slide because Katniss was ok with you), we need more from kunk (you're under pressure to prove your innocence here, most suspicion directed your way is a result of mal's poor play), mike, solemnj... hell, basically everyone.

Something that recently jumped out at me is this:

I'm going to trust Furry's read on ck here.

What is YOUR read?

What if Furry is scum? Why would you trust someone else's read?

well, it's fine with me, but I'm not switching my vote until a couple others agree. I find CrueKnight scummier, but I'm always willing to lynch for non-contribution.

That's fine.. but sounds a little like a breadcrumb for you to point to when you abruptly change wagons.

[cruelty]

Oh.

Here we go.

Here are my candidates:
Vote: cruelty
Vote: Furry
Vote: mike

His next post:

Alright. This is my last day here, and I didn't have the time to catch up completely, but I'll switch my vote to a place where it serves a good purpose. In this case, I like the cades votes the best, even though cruelty is one of the people voting him

I'm going to change back to wicked. This is opportunism at its finest.

unvote, vote: wicked

[cruelty]

Alright. This is my last day here, and I didn't have the time to catch up completely, but I'll switch my vote to a place where it serves a good purpose. In this case, I like the cades votes the best, even though cruelty is one of the people voting him:

Unvote Vote:cades

When I return it should be day 3, so I will be crossing my fingers that we vote off scum.

I wish I had seen/this was pointed out earlier.

My last post. (42 in iso).

Wicked has been actively contributing to the thread, creating more valid info for finding scum.

You could call some of the things he does scummy, but I don't see any of the logic against him as solid.

Sure the wicked lynch would reveal more, but I feel wicked is a very good player and can help us attain victory.

I don't know whether to call that buddying or defending. Can you quote some specific examples where wicked has been genuinely helpful (as opposed to making massive quote walls and asking inane questions) please?

And I am pretty sure Cades is town. So why should I vote for him?

How can you be sure he's town? He's posted like 4 times.

[cruelty]

vote: cades

Be back later (today, tomorrow, day after..) with more content, happy holidays all.

[cruelty]

CK, I'd have thought it fairly obvious.

I like to think I can figure out a person's role by the way they post, in the categories: Cop, Doc, Vanilla. I've already narrowed down the people I think are Cop.

Right.

Don't really see how this benefits town, or how this is a pro-town mindset.



Heliograph my vote will remain on you until we seem some content. Cades was less than useless so hopefully you can bring some content to the table.

[cruelty]

I'm going to refer you back to the early game pressure vote discussion.

[cruelty]

Hm.

There are quite a few people we need to hear from.


Helio I'd love some reads from you, your predecessor was up to fuck all and you're sorta continuing the trend - who do you think might be guilty and why do you think that?

SolemnJ you made a weird post then went dark - this could be a function of the time of year so I'm not reading hugely into it at this point but I think that you could be deserving of scrutiny. I'm going to hold off until you get back.

Kunk haven't heard much from you all game (well, since you replaced in), so what's the go with you?

[cruelty]

Just wow.

[cruelty]

@Cruelty: What do you make of the wicked lynch? Now knowing he's town, where do you feel that places your judgements? Other than cades being totally nonexistent, do you have any other substantial reasons for voting heilo? Do you believe that a lurker lynch is something we should go for?

I think wicked dug his own grave with weak play. Where does it place my "judgements"? I'm looking with great interest in your direction - the lack of actual content is going unnoticed (a bunch of questions does not a great contribution make).

I didn't have any other great reasons for voting heilo - now I do. I tend to believe that ignorance is a reasonable scumtell (IMO scum are more likely to skimread looking for threads to pull, and are therefore more likely to miss things).

Do I believe a lurker lynch is something we should go for? Not really. Active lurkers? I'm down with that.

[cruelty]

unvote, vote SJ

To be honest I'm not 100% at all, but I figure the game needs a shot in the arm and after that weird post (working out cop, doc, etc) I'll get on board with this.

[cruelty]

don i'd suggest looking at your predecessor in iso (i assume you already have), at furry (look at her stance vs voting for lurkers) and at cades/heilo.

[cruelty]

why is this different than "usually"? i can't help it if my predecessor drew suspicion. you also seem to be creating bias before i have even gone into any sort of analysis. why are you voting me?

I don't think it's unreasonable to be voting for a player whose slot has been scummy thoughout the game. I think it would be more unreasonable to shift votes off that slot purely because it's a different player - it doesn't change the fact that the slot has appeared scummy and it's your job to rescue the situation.

At the end of the day we have to make our mind up based on what you do - if you're not scum (and I'm relatively happy with my vote at the moment) then you have to dissuade us.

[cruelty]

Ok, SolemnJ.

This particular quote I found to be very peculiar:

I like to think I can figure out a person's role by the way they post, in the categories: Cop, Doc, Vanilla.

Just seems like a strange way for town to play - I suspect that most people are looking specifically for scum and not for town power roles. Maybe that's just me though, I haven't delved much into the theory of the game. I don't understand and I don't like the approach though.

To be honest, I didn't think he was particularly scummy, I was concerned that he was fairly easily lead and his opinions seemed to shift quite rapidly without really good reason. I also didn't really like his reasoning for being on the wicked wagon - it was logical but I got an uneasy gut vibe from that post. I'm not 100% sure why, I'll think about it some more (I think it seemed fairly opportunistic and abrupt, but opportunism has plagued this game and I've abruptly changed opinion [see wicked/cades] so I can't condemn him for this.

Mostly, I just wanted a quick wagon to build up some steam and stimulate some discussion - for me this was never about pushing a lynch, just giving the game a shot in the arm. Seems it failed.

unvote

.

Sir Chris

As for Cruelty, he is reminding me of scum me. He is really good with words and seems highly intelligent. Which makes me question why we have not caught scum yet.

I.. what?

thru strict voting analysis i find both yours and chris' slot scummy. i plan on expanding on it with further analysis.

Ok.

I don't really buy into this voting analysis deal, I tend to think that although it's absolute fact (one of the few concrete facts we have), it's also tainted by human error, but whatever, I'll let you do your thing. If it works for you then it's all good.

All I was trying to say in that post was that a replacement isn't automatically free of suspicion.


I did notice this (abruptly changing topic):

unvote
Vote: Wicked

I am agreeing with the arguments against him.

The post prior to this, he was vehemently anti-kunkstar. I'd also note (borrowing a little from dj here) that he wasn't on a wagon at all at the end of day 1.

I can't really be bothered making a big case here, but suffice to say that his presence on the wicked wagon was opportunistic (there's that word again, and I can concede that he'd previously shown some suspicion of wicked, but at the time of the vote his game was going in another direction) and his lack of presence at the end of day 1 is also interesting. He bears looking at, something I'll find time to do once he gets back and can answer my questions.

[cruelty]

This might end up being a bit wall-ish.

1

As for Cruelty, he is reminding me of scum me. He is really good with words and seems highly intelligent. Which makes me question why we have not caught scum yet. As Furry pointed out, this current lynch is not ruffling any feathers, that's not good.

2

So come on cruelty let's have a bit more of a chit chat than a single line of disbelief, I am sure you are good for more than that.

The first quote is your case on me. What do you want to chit chat about? I'm not going to get involved in a meaningless debate about your vague musings.

I'm looking at your posting since your vote on me, and you've yet to give a good reason. You say you're trying to make me account for my actions - what actions? I just get the feeling that you've looked at what dj has been saying and seen an opening you think you can exploit.


Something I just noticed. There was a LOT of chris defending kunkstar (and cades, but I'm looking at chris/kunk right now) during day 2:

Man, I really don't like this wagon on Kunkstar

If you are on cades or kunk I think you are really making a grave mistake or are very, very scummy

Secondly the kunk lynch makes no sense at all. NO SENSE AT ALL.

How about we let cades get replaced, realize kunk is pretty town

So ok, there's some pretty epic defense going on there. But also:

Honestly, wicked has done nothing to deserve to live at this point and the case on both kunk and cades is a complete joke.

Defending plus pushing a wagon onto a now known townie.

How about we let cades get replaced, realize kunk is pretty town, and punch a whole in wicked's scummy heart.

Quoted this before, here's the sentence in its entirety.

Moving onto early today, we get this:

So Kunk and the player before him have combined to vote for two different town players...
I am going to have to go back and look through stuff, hrm.

then

I must apologize, truthfully, I am not getting very good reads at all on anyone looking back.

This was followed by a gut vote on Furry. From nowhere. So no kunkstar (or, admittedly, cruelty) dissection.


So we can extrapolate a couple hard facts from this.

1: Chris REALLY didn't want kunkstar lynched.
2: Chris pushed the wicked wagon hard.

We know that wicked is a confirmed townie. We know that kunkstar's slot was under some fairly serious suspicion which has evaporated somewhat since his arrival into the game. I also note this:

like Sir Chris.

He seems to be the most prolific and influential player in this game

, and if we kill him the game will probably drag. As for whether I think he's scum or not.... no. IIRC, he's made points I agree with, and I think his wagon was run up unnecessarily.

I'm not condemning you for this. I really need to work out how I feel about kunkstar before I can make my mind up on you, because the two of you are completely entwined at this point for me. I think that at least one of you is scum and I think that Chris has been consciously distancing himself from kunk (half-assed vague suspicions [and yeah he's doing the same to me, but he didn't defend me yesterday]) today. This bears further research which I'll endeavour to do over the weekend.

[cruelty]

I'm not pushing for your lynch - I specifically stated that I need to look harder at kunkstar before I make up my mind on you. I'm not even close to painting you as scum.


That post was less about marking you as scum and more about mike's quote. I don't want you to be influential and prolific, because don's probably right when he says one of the three of us is scum. I'm not, therefore one of you must be. To further that, I can't let scum lead town, therefore I have to ensure that you get seriously looked at.


Don't sweat it too much, I have a bit more to say and most of it has nothing to do with you.

[cruelty]

I'm not pushing for your lynch - I specifically stated that I need to look harder at kunkstar before I make up my mind on you. I'm not even close to painting you as scum.


That post was less about marking you as scum and more about mike's quote. I don't want you to be influential and prolific, because don's probably right when he says one of the three of us is scum. I'm not, therefore one of you must be. To further that, I can't let scum lead town, therefore I have to ensure that you get seriously looked at.


Don't sweat it too much, I have a bit more to say and most of it has nothing to do with you.

[cruelty]

I'm not pushing for your lynch - I specifically stated that I need to look harder at kunkstar before I make up my mind on you. I'm not even close to painting you as scum.


That post was less about marking you as scum and more about mike's quote. I don't want you to be influential and prolific, because don's probably right when he says one of the three of us is scum. I'm not, therefore one of you must be. To further that, I can't let scum lead town, therefore I have to ensure that you get seriously looked at.


Don't sweat it too much, I have a bit more to say and most of it has nothing to do with you.

[cruelty]

Heilograph. Content. Post some.

[cruelty]

vote: heilograph

Active lurking.


MY content is irrelevant. This is about you and your lack of participation. This has been a common trend with your playerslot and I have no idea why you'd continue it.


The fact that you're trying to turn this back on me (I've been one of the most active players in this game) is ludicrous. If you don't want to play the game, replace out. Otherwise, bring something to the table.

[cruelty]

Useful insight, thanks.


I don't think you're entirely correct. I think that over-defensiveness isn't exclusively a scumtell but is definitely something that you're likely to find coming from players with something to lose. That is, a PR or scum.

You couldn't lynch for over-defensiveness alone, but I think it's absolutely a decent tell assuming the presence of other compelling evidence.

[cruelty]

I disagree. But then, I disagree with most of what you say so I'm not going to read into it.

[cruelty]

Is this your first game?

Active lurking - posting enough content to be present in the thread without actually contributing to the game in any manner. This is what you're doing.

[cruelty]

Actually y'know what I'm gonna dissect that post a little more.

I view my self as a turtle not really saying my true intent.

How does this help town in identifying and eliminating mafia? If anything, it's mafia who will play like this; they want to appear helpful to town but their true intent is to kill off town and win the game. So explain to me exactly - and I mean lay it out really fucking clearly - what you're trying to achieve by playing like this.

Actually while you're doing it explain to me how that in any way relates to a turtle. I'm not really sure the analogy is appropriate.

a trend is the general
movement over time of a statistically detectable change.

Right. Did you get that from dictionary.com? Look, you know (well I hope you do, I'm not exactly being subtle) exactly what I meant - your playerslot has not contributed significantly at all throughout the entirety of this game. Fix this.

Not only that, but this quote is also a weird semantic deflection. You're not addressing the issue, you're STILL not contributing, you're just quoting some definition and thinking it will get you off the hook here. It won't.

Now I'll go back a little.

Cadres was lurking I will give you credit.
Besides him being a dick by even joining the game, I must say I have provided more content than me previous person.

No, you haven't. You've provided nothing.

Lazy people here, if you didnt want to read the game yourself then why did you replace in?

If you didn't want to play the game why did YOU replace in? Unless you're mafia, in which case your playstyle makes a lot more sense to me.

but what case is against me beside a "trend" and "active lurking" ?

Points against you.

- Continued active lurking.
- Complete lack of contribution.
- This weird 'turtle' playstyle.
- Deflection.
- Not reading the thread (This was evidenced by citing wicked as a suspect the day after wicked got lynched).



What do I want from you?

I want you to build a case against someone. Take your #1 suspect (whoever that is, and protip, wicked was lynched yesterday), find good, solid reasons that that person is scummy, and post them. Your job (assuming you're town) is to help find scum. So far, you haven't done anything. Change this.

[cruelty]

Sorry for the double post.

As for my thoughts... I'm still trying to decide between DJ and Sir Chris.
DJ because I didn't really feel comfortable with SolemnJ. (Have to re-read though)
Sir Chris because cruelty made a few pointers on him that may be valid. (post 948)

Why those two?

Why not me? Given that someone [dj?] brought up the fact that both chris and I were on both mislynch wagons, why do you not find me suspicious?

Why do you find chris to be suspicious because of something I said? Is that the only reason? Has he said anything that set off alarm bells for you, or are you entirely basing your suspicion on things I've said?

[cruelty]

Then you are wrong if you disagree. I can argue this for hours on end, but I will spare you. Purely objective tells are poor though.

Right, because you're infallible. Fuck outta here with that.

Having said my piece, I'll back down. I don't want to get involved in a theory argument. I will say though, that my reads on defensiveness are generally gut-reads as opposed to anything the player in question says. If I think their defensiveness is scummy, it's not usually for a reason I can really articulate. So I know what you're saying, I just find defensiveness at the very least worth looking into.

Moving on.


@Chris, can you please lay out your case against Kirbyoshi concisely and clearly? The reason I ask is that your posts against him have been filled with rage and anger (exaggerating obviously) and I'd just like a list of exactly what is scummy about him.

@Kirbyoshi, same applies to you. You haven't really built a case against Chris, you've just agreed with what other people said. Lay out it, point by point.

Basically what I want is similar to my points against heilo in my 988.


@CK you gotta answer my questions. Post 989, thanks.

@mike you're not helping anyone, more content please.

@Heilo where did you get to, you got some serious ground to make up m'man.

[cruelty]

I dont really much other choice. This is the wagon of choice.

vote kirbyoshi

Jesus. I'm happy with my vote.



Furry I'm getting bad vibes from you. I will be looking into this.

[cruelty]

Man I am having a hard time working out if there's any significance to this Faraday/Chris battle. I feel like you're both talking a lot and saying very little.

I'm pretty happy with my vote right now.

Mod: I will be V/LA (basically no internet access) for about a week starting in about 4 hours.

I'm down with a deadline extension (I think I'll be back before deadline if it's extended by a week).

I'll try to be back before I leave (I'll definitely read the thread, if anything is worth commenting on I'll post but I won't have net access once I'm gone so..).

V/LA is noted.

[cruelty]

So are we massclaiming or what?

I've never been in a game where the possibility of doing so has been seriously brought up so I'm not really sure of what's going on/the logic behind it.

[cruelty]

Right. Can we get a consensus then?


What do people think?

[cruelty]

I am happy enough either way. I've been completely wrong with all my reads so far this game so I'm not entirely confident in my ability to pull a rabbit out of a hat at this point.

That said, we have a bunch of people who need to talk more. Specifically, kirby, mike, kunk, CK.

[cruelty]

vote: no lynch

[cruelty]

claim time i guess.

tracker.

night 1: faraday (nothing)
night 2: SC (nothing)
night 3: furry (SC)
night 4: kirby (nothing)

[cruelty]

Without MME's claim, we are looking at 4 vanilla and 2 PR. I don't know, the way cruelty's results supported Furry's results looks fishy to me. Just vibes basically, as scum trying to make themselves look confirmed by helping confirm another role.

If neither of us are lying, what conclusion can you come to?

[cruelty]

Reasoning?

Night 1, I was pretty happy with Faraday and wanted to check my town read on him (I've been wrong a LOT lately). Initial read was right, bit of a waste unfortunately.

Night 2, tracked Chris after my post 948.

Night 3, been a little uncomfortable with Furry the whole game, decided to see what was up there.

Night 4: A guess. Was going to be kirby or kunk, decided Kirby.

[cruelty]

Incidentally I also thought Furry's claim yesterday was tracker, and was preparing to take her down today.

I didn't breadcrumb my role, didn't really envision a point whereby I'd claim (my bad, I've never had a power role before) so this suspicion on me is understandable I guess.

I'm leaning towards kunk right now.

[cruelty]

Yep.

As I said, never played a power role, wasn't really sure how to approach it. Lesson learned I guess.

[cruelty]

Working ATM, football after work. Hopefully get a chance to post properly later tonight.

Want dj's case on me, can't see a reason to withhold at this point of the game.

[cruelty]

I don't really understand why my claim is hard to believe.


I'm actually a little concerned Furry is a mafia roleblocker. I need to think about this a bit, not gonna blindly follow yet.


Also dj I'm not gonna bother playing stupid games with you. Lay out your case.

[cruelty]

sorry for the inactivity, been very busy. will step up the activity over the next day or two, for now i need my sleep.

[cruelty]

Ok I'm not really feeling a dj lynch, I think I'll vote either kunk or chris, but before I do I'm going to go back to my post 948 and do some re-reads.


In fact, I'm going to withhold my vote until there's some contribution from MME (who incidentally hasn't come through with the promised 'substantial content'). I can't in good conscience let a lynch go through in lylo with no contribution from one slot.

[cruelty]

chris - If kunk is scum then I'm pretty sure you are. I can't see me voting for you first based on that, though.

[cruelty]

I'm finding this very frustrating. I'm actually continually secondguessing myself because my reads have been so poor this game.


mme who do you want to lynch and why?

[cruelty]

bleh

i sort of lost interest after wicked got lynched; i had basically no reads on anyone (constant replacements, sigh) and i have no idea where i'd have voted, if i had voted.

bad game, sorry town. well played scum.

[cruelty]

btw

Anyone know any different languages? I want to tell Cruelty to fuck off in as many different ways as possible.

you wanna tissue??

:[ :[ :[

[cruelty]

lol

why are you still making excuses?

why do you take the game so personally?


the fact is you played badly, which in and of itself isn't an issue; a lot of us did this game, but then you abused people and cried about it.. talking about policy lynches/kills etc. gimme a break, grow the fuck up and keep your self-confidence issues out of the gamethreads. nobody likes a crybaby.


@everyone else, sorry for the thread derailment.