The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Plum]

This will be an very interesting game indeed.

Hmm... everyone has a power huh? Well, I for one am expecting to see some crazy stuff come up so Kise being a martyr sounds reasonable to me. Everyone needs to get out there pens and notebooks cause its time to scum hunt.

Vote: DeathNote

because I have a bad feeling that you might listen to your own advice with

your

notebook.

Kise, joke wasn't actually that amusing. The only interesting bit is that you FOS milkshake on basis of your 'investigation' and don't vote - why not, pray?

[Plum]

Unvote; Vote: Benmage

That last post of his seemed needlessly/falsely paranoid, though frankly I'd need more attention span to reread right now to be sure I was taking it in the right context. Still better than random, I think. +1

[Plum]

You aren't going to spam why? Cuz I called you out on it? You're obvscum and have to be lynched ASAP.

Better yet,

Kill Benmage

Porkens made an early kill in a game once and hit my scumbuddy. Let's see where this gets us.

Win. Benmage's reaction is priceless.

[Plum]

You have just as much chance to be scum coming into a game as anyone else. And I'm pretty sure I just nailed you on a Page 6 kill. This game will give me the ego boost I've been looking for.

Pfft mafia 98 the 40th endgame, flawless win... didn't boost the ego? maybe ur riding that high and the coattails a little much. Its irrelevant hopefully.... i dont think I am of much importance, you outing urself as a daykiller(which i still disbelieve) is a mistake on your part.

Your actions belie your words, scum.

[Plum]

oh for god's sake...

Kmd, why the fake daykill?

Scumtrap results positive, that's why. I think this is a Kmd-town gambit.

[Plum]

Kise - why no love?

Anyone know if Benmage is an idiot or faking it?

[Plum]

hm...so i really do have to think.

I'm not hooking your brain up for you, dude.

[Plum]

Have we slee- *ahem* Have we played together before?

I'm jailbait (and I'm already Lovers with Kmd).

[Plum]

Kise - why no love?

Anyone know if Benmage is an idiot or faking it?

I know he didnt kill me chillax

That wasn't why I was asking. Have some faith in me.

Question is still open - and I could still make good use of an answer - everyone.

[Plum]

That depends.... is council town?

In this post, we see DN is a third party

Unvote
Vote: DeathNote

Incidentally, I don't like third parties.

Unvote; Vote: DeathNote

Not Town, it would seem, and that's enough for me. But seriously folks.

Of course not...


I am playing a game where I am unsure what alignment is town or not.

If you were Town you'd know that whatever your alignment was was Town.

I've Got My Eye On:

Benmage. Don't forget it.

[Plum]

@Benmage

I have brown eyes. Why do you care? Oh, ha-ha, my comment about having my eye on you?

[Plum]

Yes, Sociopath, the hypocrisy runs

very

deep. I would that

I

had a Dayvig kill, I'd shoot the leftover. Powww.

DeathNote, we need some fessing up.

[Plum]

Fessing for what? You act like I did something wrong... :/

Well, not knowing what flavor-group you're aligned with while claiming to be Town-aligned (and thus have said flavor group clearly indicated in your Role PM, theoretically) isn't

wrong

technically, just indicative of scumhood. Let's take this slowly:

I know that everyone is either aligned with Council, Converters, or other. It doesn't say who is mafia and who is town.

Well, what group does your Role PM say you're aligned with, pray tell?

[Plum]

No need to take it slow. Council is town and I am Council. What is the vote count?

Why did you not know Council was Town, then?

That depends.... is council town?

If you were really Town, and really got a Townie Role PM, which, by your acknowledgment, indicates alignment with the Council, why did you ask that?

[Plum]

Entering Active Lurker Mode

Can I take that as an explicit admission of guilt?

[Plum]

What do you think of DeathNote, Sajin? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Plum]

Sajin - I took "say" to colloquially mean "make clear by implication". My Role PM is clearly an uninformed-minority-Town-type Role PM with a clearly marked fact that I am aligned with the Council; thus Council=Town was implied, that is it was said in my Role PM. Granted Starks' explanation of what went on is a little weirder than what you considered his 'slip'.

SpyreX's recent two posts = QFT.

[Plum]

1.) If DeathNote flips an obvious high-power mafia PR (vig, etc) Sajin is getting lynched.

Why does it have to be a high-power mafia PR, as opposed to a mafia PR in general?

That part I'm not getting.

Let us look into it in its proper time.

[Plum]

Entering Active Lurker Mode

Vote: DeathNote

What is that L-2 or 1? Either way... this is looking surprisingly familiar to another game I was in... hmm.....

^^ These still read more like tripped-up or otherwise screwed scum than Town. Logic break that I'm struggling to see or not - oh, I think I get it. Um, okay, maybe. SpyreX, vollkan, DN, if you could just assume I'm slow and help fill in the blanks for SpyreX's logic breakthrough to confirm that I'm seeing, maybe, what they're seeing, 'twould be helpful.

Again, I first read stark's comment "It should say it in your PM, scum" as "It should be the clear implication in your PM, scum" not "It should say it explicitly in your PM, scum". His explanation for his Role PM saying it, however, was this:

1. The game begins with the death of "The Giver"
2. "The Giver", as stated in the introduction, is aligned with the Council
3. "The Giver"'s name has been written in green.
4. Green is the color asigned to all dead player/NPCs aligned with the town.
5. I am aligned with the council

This doesn't even mention his PM saying/implying that Council = Town. Though he later says he did mean that it was implied by the role PM, this deserves suspicion.

BM, you didn't seem to like that I thought some useful reactions (scummy ones) came out of Kmd's fake-dayvig-gambit, or that I was enthusiastic about it; you even voted me apparent;y because of that. Care to expound? I have a huge aversion to those who want to confirm SB up simply because of the Miller claim. Llama's stance is one I've previously adopted, and especially given notorious shenanigans by Kublai in a recent game- which many are aware of - there's too much WIFOM to confirm

anything

about a Day 1 Miller claimer. The Battle Mage, I say: I don't think BN, is, at this point, scummy enough to warrant today's lynch but: WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM, and not the helpful kind, either.

Ah, I'd looked forward to seeing Porkens, but a game with Llama is a good game, so it's nice to see another old face. Anyway.

Jordan's bandwagon jump looks *shudder*.

Vaya, what about BN's wording of the Miller-claim bothered you? It doesn't seem to be policy vote - specifics would be helpful.

Tubby's policy vote is *shudder*. Was he in the game with KK and traumatized? Or is my memory throwing out random suggestions at me as a hint that it wants me to go to sleep now?

Checking up on SB, she did make it clear that her original claim was primarily for the purposes of providing a "safe" investigation for any Cops. Not really worth it, not sure where she got the idea, but it looks like she believes that it is an optimal Miller play and she's not saying something she believes is BS because she's scum. Having said that

@Snow_Bunny

- link to the game you mentioned when you said "In other games with many investigative roles. It helped them clear their sanity. In another game, a miller didn't claim and thus was killed on D2, and the whole town demanded that player to know why didn't he claim early on." I'm especially interested in an example for the first, where the Miller helps confirm a Cop's sanity, but I really need both, thanks.

ok with that post snow needs lynched NOW!

more snow vote please

Unvote; Vote: Tubby

Ugh.. This is fake scum-hunting. Attacking people for perfectly reasonable assumptions.

Disagree. It's a reasonable assumption, but a QT is not the be-all-and-end-all of a scum PM. Though Kise's statement isn't by itself strongly indicative of anything, it was a road worth looking down, not without potential, so SB's scumhunting here doesn't look faked to me (especially considering that she didn't make said relative molehill into a mountain).

KK gives bad vibes, but vibes do not concrete suspicion make.

To reiterate: I disagree that SB is obvtown; current WIFOM currents say that's a stupid assumption. I disagree with Tubby that this requires a policy lynch, no questions asked. Further, I'm starting to doubt how much his call for an SB lynch is policy-based. Llama's approach is closest to Maimonides' golden path.

Any roads, tubby's gameplay seems fishy to me. I'm playing with him in another game, and he's definitively playing different. I'll analyze this thing further.

I'm very interested in the results of your investigations. As soon as you have them, post 'em and let me at 'em.

Plum, I've played 3 games with Benmage. He was town in all three. Borderline VI in the first two. Decent player in the third.

Thanks. Now I need to wade back through the thread to see what I wanted to see from this . Crud, I forgot . Maybe it'll come back to me when I need it most, you know?

Vaya's explained her vibes from SB;s original Miller claim in-thread. Okay, I see where you were coming from.

DN, I'm waiting on SpyreX and/or vollkan and/or you explaining what they seem to think went on behind the post which many, including myself, originally took to be a scumslip, but your reactions to the wagon on you were also scummy (and want further explanation), but I want more substance from you on scumhunting - specific thoughts on Stark, your current vote, please?

I do not... I am always helpful to the town. :/

^^ Do that now please.

Llama asketh good questions like a good llama (I met a great llama in person over the summer, and an alpaca too, but that's a story for another time).

Before I got distracted by a sweet low hanging fruit I went here. I'm going back. He's paying enough attention to this game to, dare I say, be actively avoiding questions. Which I'm cool with nipping in the bud because I think there is an actual non-PM slip there.

Looking into it for myself forthwith.

Kmd, explain the Sajin-meta case with more specifics please?

Dislike Stark's Vaya vote - or it wants more explanation. Vaya said she was inclined to believe SB's claimed flavor, and that she was voting you for the same reason she'd voted SB, and that you were just as voteworthy - what say you to her vote change in the face of that, Stark?

@Stark

I want a sufficient explanation of the stuff I questioned/suspected you about at the beginning of this post; what you've said previously hasn't covered it.

Tubby:

Pact? What's the precedent for that, and what do you mean by it? You push it for two posts, take a break to vote SB with what seems to be an "I policy-lynch Millers" stance, go back to working on this mysterious, ultimately useless 'pact', break from your pure policy-lynch stance to argue that SB is scummier than before without offering useful details.

Snow Bunny is obvtown. You have 1 post in which to remove your vote from her, or you earn mine.

I can't believe you are actually making me link this game. You just wanted to dig up the wounds after they finally healed.

stop being dense get on board and lynch snow NOW!! or you will earn my vote!

Why is having what appears to be a mere difference of opinion on the subject of this sort of policy-lynch scummy? You also say the under-explained 'pact', which you've spent much of your posts blah blah blah. Another exhortation - a pushy, almost bullying one - to get VP Baltar to join the SB wagon without explaining very well

why

. Above all I see no actual scumhunting, just talk of a pact and some kazoo-tooting for what he tries to pass off as a policy lynch - but his actions and tone don't quite match up. Tubby, what do you think of SB's claimed flavor?

Jordan:

Hypocritical/stupid RVS vote he paints as 'semi-valid'. Too much "We're in the RVS! Are we out of the RVS?" "It could have been a better or worse RVS". USELESS much? Then bandwagon vote which seems like possibly he's pretending he has a clue as to what's going on when he jumps a juicy bandwagon. At least I

thought

I knew what was going on.

Kublai Khan:

Up for Kise RVS-era-ish bandwagon because he doesn't like Kise's post. All right. Another policy-lyncher, though I suppose it's slightly more personal here.

Unvote

Vote: Kublai Khan

How many potential bandwagons have you been on? Just wondering...

Well, every person I've voted could have been a potential bandwagon. Lots of rapidly changing game info going on.

Nice attempt to distract from answering Plum's question, though.

Considering that KK's only comment on the DN wagon was that it was a "a great bandwagon", that

he

dodges the brunt of the question ( which was: How many bandwagons getting very hot have you jumped onto? The answer being two or three, depending on how bandwagoned SB got, I'm just not in the mood to open yet another tab to analyze that, so forgive me) and that I didn't ask DN any questions (well, one which he basically answered, and there was one open-ended one about whether Benmage was a player with or without brains) - *shudder*. Get's back onto the SB wagon with relatively little explanation - policy lynch back on, dude?

Can I leave Stark till tomorrow night? It's laaaate. Analysis for the last hour or so has been mostly all I can take in a single concentrated sitting.

Vote's still on Tubby. official

HOS: Kublai Khan, Jordan

both good bets for scum; DN is not my favorite lynch, Stark is shady- these two reads pending confirmation/refutation of my interpretations of their actions/slips via clear explanations from Stark on himself and from DN/vollkan/SpyreX on DN just to make sure what they saw with DN's original question-drawing question. Benmage feels better but still don't like his earlier reaction to Kmd's gambit. I've become somewhat less enchanted by Kmd today.

Sayonara and good night.

[Plum]

SpyreX, yes, that's what I saw when I read your response to vollkan and subsequent unvote of DN; I generally agree with your sentiments there. I have fish to fry besides him, though he doesn't look like he'd make a bad grilled dinner, if you don't think I'm letting this metaphor run away with me.

1st the pact, I believe the first appearance was in Mafia 82, where BM brought it up and it failed there to.But anyway I was always interested in the idea but i cannot get the wording down right to make it more usefull for scum hunting. Basically people will enter the pact and vote and hunt as a group in a sense greating a game within a game.


2nd snow bunny, her post 262 on page 11, just smells really bad of scum setting an investigative trap. Especially in a game this size and this complex. either a) she is scum and will come up guilty and thus being confirmed will cost for the rest of the game. b) she is some type of GF hybrid that cause all investigatives to call their sanity into qquestion. c) the scum group does have a watcher and their watcher will be able see who targets her.
So in that post alone we have, trying to direct pro-town investigative roles, and a giant appeal to emotion. Ever post there after seems like a bigger appeal than the one before it.

I feel that there are far better choices for the investigative roles to look into in i leave it to them to make their choices.

@ lama yes i played a couple games with millers on site and got burrned buy them don't like they should be lynched and lynched early when the town still has the numbers to recover.

@ snowbunny good luck on your meta read, here are some helpful tips. you can ask Vi or Adele they have the best meta reads on me that are currently n ot in this game. Or you could look at. Mafia 82, Mafia 88, Xyl's relative chaos, Mini 806,Vipod mafia,newbie 779,newbie 795,

wich reminds me i need to do a wiki page sometime soon.

Oho, wait just a second. I might have accepted your explanations for why you immediately pushed hard for an SB lynch if you explained them initially - but this, instead, is what I see:

vote: snow_bunny

millers need lynched

@VP i hate letting millers live it always ends up being all WIFOM'y tward the middle or close to end game. I'd rather lynch them now and be done with them.

ok with that post snow needs lynched NOW!

more snow vote please

Snow Bunny is obvtown. You have 1 post in which to remove your vote from her, or you earn mine.

I can't believe you are actually making me link this game. You just wanted to dig up the wounds after they finally healed.

stop being dense get on board and lynch snow NOW!! or you will earn my vote!

You only give the more reasonable explanation for your behavior on the SB vote and bullying for others (in this case, VP Baltar) to join the wagon - that you felt she was setting a scummy trap -

after

I questioned you (and, further, after that basic premise had already been brought up by others). This is in direct contradiction to your general indication that it was a policy lynch, made most explicit in the first two posts of yours I quoted after the one I'm responding to. You say now that it looked like the Miller claim was a scummy trap, but earlier you said that in your opinion Millers simply need to be lynched ASAP to avoid WIFOM sandpits later in the game.

Looks like scum backtracking. You acted weird for what you clearly indicated to be a purely policy-based vote, I called you out on it, and you toss me an explanation for your weirdness which contradicts your earlier statements.

Scum

.

More soon maybe.

Hm. DN seems to have spammed more than stark,

and many posts allow for an easier slip, I believe.

Stark has also spammed, but contributed, and acted purpseful like a town should.

What do you mean by that? Are you only considering the two of them in terms of spam quantity or on their debated slips? Do you think what is termed DN's slip indicated scumhood more than what is termed stark's slip?

[Plum]

Question: if stark hadnt made that post, would DeathNote be dead by now?

Using this argument, who should we lynch today?

1. No.

2. No.

[Plum]

Question: if stark hadnt made that post, would DeathNote be dead by now?

Using this argument, who should we lynch today?

1. No.

2. No.

kk. Explain?

1. No, because many of those who originally voted DN for his 'slip', myself included, eventually came to the conclusion that it in itself was not a quantifiable slip in context.

2. I don't think that using the argument of whether or not DN would have been lynched by now had it not been for Stark's comment is a fruitful way to look at the game. There are other major points the DN/stark wagons don't directly give us info about. What exactly did you mean?

[Plum]

thats exactly what I meant. Thank you.

unvote

DN has been more spammish than stark, which is why Ive chosen him over stark.

You're voting for spammishness over the other arguments and discussion presented? What do you think of SB, Tubby, everyone???

[Plum]

SpyreX, assuming your current vote, Jordan, goes through with his suicidal actions, who would you most like to see him take down and why?

[Plum]

Having said that, DN's post is nonsensical. He "needs" to survive at least one night, but he's not too disturbed (or tries to give off the nonchalant impression that he's not to disturbed) by the prospect that it's up to Jordan whether he survives at least one night or not, even though he's Jordan's current top scum pick.

"I

REEEAAALLLLY

need to survive but, like seriously whatever " he seems to try to say. Scummy, I say.

I can not give reasoning. :/

Just please don't kill me. Consider me V.T.

Lulz, appeals. And has he ever explained why he reacted to the early wagon on him with a step into "Active Lurker Mode" and then a selfvote?

[Plum]

lol i love being a judge. If it turns out that I shoould not kill DN (which I doubt will occur), who's second in line?

Tubby. Also getting bad vibes on Kmd, Kublai Khan, but need a reread. Though as Kise said I don't relish the idea of this drawing out softclaims from multiple players. Keep it simple, then; do a reread of Tubby and my case on him and let your heart guide you.

SpyreX, I was under the impression that Kise was being sarcastic.

[Plum]

actually, my ability is suicide. By definition. The deed is done now.

The most malicious post I've made so far:

Hug: DeathNote

On the one hand, epic post.

On the other hand, Llama sounded like he was working on something potentially useful. Gah.

[Plum]

you deserve it, and it will probably happen. I want answers NAO. I'm sorry llama, but 72 hurs is just too...boring for me.

PLEASE dude have some patience. I'm mostly cool with Llama in this game and I very much want to see where he's going with this. Just hold on as best you can.

@Kise: I get what you were saying (and am confused how Plum thought you were sarcastic).

Because I thought that actually wanting many softclaims + push of info into scum hands, as you said, would obviously not be what an intelligent player would want, and, thinking Kise was intelligent believed he must have been sarcastic. Kise is probably still intelligent overall, but I cannot for the life of me see why he would want that.

[Plum]

or Judas.

In which case the answer is BACKSTAB!

In that case it's kiss, not hug.

[Plum]

BM: I realized in retrospect that my reactions to Kmd's early gambit were considerably too enthusiastic. On the first day when Kmd tried a gambit on a player I already suspected I must have gotten caught up in the heat of the moment. Am I now convinced that Benmage's reactions indicate scumhood %100 - or even constitute a very clear and very string scumtell? Absolutely not. Did I let the excitement of a fast-moving game get to my head for an hour or two? Absolutely, and I shouldn't have.

No, 187 is not a slip; I use "as it seems" a lot because I've learned how stupid Townies can be - and that what seem like incontrovertible scumtells are sometimes committed by Townies - so even when something looks at first to be indicative of like %95 sure scumhood I've come to avoid speaking in absolutes in many (though not all - here we go again with avoiding them) cases. 204 was prompted by what really looked to me like caught scum giving up and fooling around in declaring his intention to commit an almost universally known scumtell. Re: 224: I always believe that looking into scumbuddies is something that should, almost without exception, be left untill at least someone has flipped because I've found in the past that this was detrimental to the Town in general. That is what I meant by "Its proper time".

I've disliked Kmd a fair amount over the last few days when I haven't had the time to put together a comprehensive-enough post - and I plan to make a case on him, or at least a summation of how I see him, tomorrow. Tubby's recent post has done something in strengthening my convictions that I'm on the right path with him but Kmd's actions demand, well, action.

[Plum]

[quote="Kise"]Hmm.. Looks like another one of your endgame-breadcrumbs.[/quote] You must be unfamiliar with an ongoing joke (which involves a reference to a finished Lovers Open setup where Kmd and I were, in fact, Mafia Lovers).

Basically I have come to the conclusion that Kmd's behavior regarding the DeathNote "slip", especially the way he quickly jumps on when he sees it despite the fact that both vollkan and SpyreX mentioned that it was not a slip in context. DN's behavior otherwise is another matter, but all Kmd does is say

[quote="Kmd4390"]What?!? DeathNote slip!

Unvote, Vote DeathNote

[/quote]

Not noting vollkan SpyreX &c. I would be less irritated by this had he said something like "DeathNote's post looks like a slip. I saw that they both came to the conclusion that it was not a slip in context but looked back and thought that the correct interpretation is that it was really a slip". When two fairly intelligent players come to that conclusion it would at least behoove you to look back, see if you can see what prompted them to say that, and if necessary ask for elaboration. Kmd at first ignores it completely, as above. SpyreX made it clear in his unvote post that his reread at the prompting of vollkan came to the conclusion that the slip was not actually a slip and that that fact made him worry about the speed of the wagon:

[quote="SpyreX"]HAHAHA

Lets play a round of:

I'm illiterate, whats your excuses?

Unvote

Ok, that looked bad, but contextually good lord it makes sense and I'm calling semi-shenanigans.

[quote="Kise"]You don't want to welcome an investigation? [/quote]
[quote="DeathNote"]That depends.... is council town? [/quote]

So, good lord, it makes sense.[/quote]

Kmd doesn't even seem to have read that when he asks:

[quote="Kmd4390"]Spy, why so sure you were wrong about DeathNote?[/quote]

The response:

[quote="SpyreX"]I'm not -sure- I'm wrong.

However,

I am positive that the reasons for the lynch were not what I thought

and thus the speed and style of the bandwagon bother me a LOT.[/quote]

Bolding is mine, but you get the picture. It's clear that Spy moved his vote because he thought that the reason for the wagon, the slip, was not in fact a real slip and

following that

, given that fact the speedy wagon on DN because of the slip-that-was-not-a-slip was possibly fishy.

When called out on basically all of the above by vollkan (and voted by vollkan), Kmd responds:

[quote="Kmd4390"]Volkan, I just don't understand why Spy backed off so quickly. You gave an excuse for DeathNote and Spy just bought it without seeming to really think about much aside from the speed of the wagon. Not all speedwagons are on town, which Spy just saw in a game where we were scumbuddies.[/quote]

When it was abundantly clear had he chosen to pay even a MODICUM of attention to the case on DN and wagon HE WAS VOTING at the time with what presumably should have been EXTREMELY STRONG CONVICTIONS that SpyreX thought about THE ACTUAL CASE a heck of a lot more than about the speed of the wagon when he removed his vote from DN.

When SpyreX explains that DN's "slip" was not an actual slip in context (for a second time) what does Kmd do? Does he look back and either agree or disagree, explain why, and change or keep his vote in accordance to that? No. He ignores it (except to ask vollkan to explain why he's wrong about DN, when SpyreX has already done so at least twice). Then he posts this:

[quote="Kmd4390"]I wouldn't complain about any of:
Vaya
DeathNote
Cass
Snow_Bunny
Benmage
SocioPath
Sajin
alvins95
Kise
Rosso Carne
KaleiÐoscøpe

In no particular order. All are either
a)scummy
b)lurkers
c)claimed miller and everyone freaked out about "OMG DO WE POLICY LYNCH?!?"[/quote]

If he truly believed it was such a clear slip that all needed for explanation for his vote was basically "Oh look a scumslip By DN! Vote time" he should at the very least have DN right at the top of his list of players he'd like to see dead instead of sticking him in a list of more than a third of the players in the game with the added disclaimer that he'd be fine with the lynch of any and has no particular ranking of which he'd like dead more (which in and of itself is shady - 11/27 players and he's just about equally happy with the lynch of all of them?Ugh).

Not to mention the fact that SB is on that list because she "claimed miller and everyone freaked out about 'OMG DO WE POLICY LYNCH?!?'" when a post or two of his earlier he wrote:

[quote="Kmd4390"][quote="LlamaFluff"]
So then if a claimed miller looks scummy you lynch them, if not you treat them as town... I believe some really wierd things in this game (for instance I know a few people have seen me pull wagons off people who claimed VT), but this is not that far out there.[/quote]

^This. I tend to usually agree with Llama on theory, and this is one of those times. If Snow is scummy, we'll lynch her. If she's not, we won't. It's really that simple.[/quote]

He doesn't seem to think that SB has done much scummy, but the theory he presses here does not match up - AT ALL - with his willingness to see SB lynched simply for her Miller claim and the fact that some people flipped out because of it.

His Benmage vote after the Jordan, DN deaths and vague insinuation that he suspects Llama and SpyreX are respectively underwhelming and scummy (the last bit is slightly objective - he doesn't even give us an inkling of what makes him think that and a bit subjective - I don't recall either of them acting particularly scummy).

Posts 8 - 10 of vollkan-in-isolation reinforce the point further, with Kmd offering useless bits of stuff like "Volkan, it didn't hurt anything that I was wrong. We didn't lynch him" and "It's not important anymore though" in what looks like a very scummy attempt to blow off vollkan's legitimate points as irrelevant.

I still suspect Tubby and I hope to have the time to take another longer look at him tomorrow night. But Kmd? My vote has been earned, luv.

Unvote; Vote: Kmd

[Plum]

I support the KMD lynch, he has changed stances so many times today. He was on a bandwagon of a now dead town as well (it might of even been both of them). Not to mention he always seems to get scum roles when he plays with me.

unvote; vote: KMD

Hm? I agree that Kmd's changed stances (I didn't have enough time last night to do a thorough analysis of his changing opinions on you, for example) don't make me think any more of him, but being on the bandwagon of a now-dead Townie is not, in and of itself, a scumtell, and the fact that you seem to equate it with a clear scumtell makes me twitch a smidgen.

[Plum]

I understand, intellectually, where you're coming from, DGB, that Kmd's claim being quick was a point in his favor in your mind, but I have a bit of a problem. When Kmd was asked to claim his flavor:

Vaya, my entire childhood was all about music. I started playing at a young age and most people were impressed. All I want is to share my music. I've just recently realized how strong my music really is.

NO.

Where were you/what were you doing when the Giver was killed and why did you not mention it when Vaya asked you to claim your flavor?

[Plum]

Where were you/what were you doing when the Giver was killed and why did you not mention it when Vaya asked you to claim your flavor?

My Role PM actually doesn't say.

Oh, and Zito? I don't get your pic..

Shenanigans. I'm calling lies, but even if my hypothesis is wrong and not everyone has Giver-related goodness in their Role PMs you remain as scummy as before.

[Plum]

To be fair, Plum, my PM doesn't mention that I was in some specific place when The Giver was killed either.

Clarify please: No Giver-related goodness at all? Very well, I suppose; my hypothesis might well be wrong. But it doesn't lessen Kmd's scumminess a whit (he's just not going further up that ladder.

[Plum]

To be fair, Plum, my PM doesn't mention that I was in some specific place when The Giver was killed either.

Clarify please: No Giver-related goodness at all? Very well, I suppose; my hypothesis might well be wrong. But it doesn't lessen Kmd's scumminess a whit (he's just not going further up that ladder.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Giver-related goodness" exactly. My reaction to the death is in there, but a specific place/time/activity isn't mentioned.

Reaction to Giver's death = Giver-related goodness. Kmd, ANYTHING Giver-related or???

[Plum]

Plum, nope.

Thumbs down.

[Plum]

You voted DN after Vollkan and SpyreX looked back and realized it was not a slip in context without commenting on that fact. I'm certain you know that they're both reasonably intelligent, so especially if they were the ones who felt the reason for the bandwagon was severely lacking it would have behooved you to at least take what they were saying seriously, take a second look yourself, and comment on their conclusion and why you did or did not end up agreeing with them. Instead you ignored it. You accused Spy of buying Vollkan's reason for DN's slip not being a slip without thinking about it much aside from considering the speed of the wagon on DN after the perceived "slip", when it was clear that SpyreX had personally read back and thought a fair amount about it and

after

coming to the conclusion that the reason for the bandwagon itself was not actually legit started wondering whether the speed of such a bandwagon might be worrying. Completely misrepping him and accusing him of not thinking much about the reasoning prompted by Vollkan when it was quite clear you were the shamelessly guilty party on that count. When he explains that you continue to ignore the Vollkan/Spy stance on the slip except for asking Vollkan to explain why you're wrong when SpyreX has effectively done so twice already (further proving that you had not been paying a smidgen of attention to the discussion on the slip which was the case you were voting DN on). You also try to blow off Vollkan's analysis of your bahavior on the DN wagon/about the DN slip as irrelevant also strikes me as scum trying to downplay a legitimate case against him.

You then posted a list of eleven players whose bombing you wouldn't complain about. Firstly if you truly believed DN had scumslipped you should certainly have complained at least a bit because in your mind he should have been obvscum. Even if you didn't have such strong convictions (which the tone of the post where you voted him strongly implied) the very fact that there were 11 you wouldn't have complained about is less than comfortimg scumhunting from you. Vague insinuation that Llama and SpyreX are scummy despite not having noted any scumminess about them is icing ion the cake,

Basically I just summarized Post 870 with a few corrections.

Plum, I called it how I saw it. When I read DeathNote's post, it looked like obvslip. I saw Volkan disagree, and figured someone would, so no big deal. Then Spy, who had voted DN, completely changed his stance. So I decided to look into that. Volkan has explained his position, and it doesn't make sense, but he was right, so yeah. Knowing now that DN was town, it's Spy's turnaround that bothers me.

First of all, if I know that Vollkan is a fairly intelligent player, you should too, which should definitely prompt you to look when he disagrees (and I find it scummy that you were willing to blow off the first dissenter without looking into the reason for dissent no matter the dissenter - the fact that it was Vollkan should have only strengthened that). Furthermore, Spy changed his stance

before

you voted DN at all, so had you actually cared you would have looked at his explanation, also posted by SpyreX before your DN vote, and possibly asked if you didn't understand where he was coming from (as I did). Instead you ignored it, accused Spy of acting scummy on the wagon where his behavior was reasonable and generally shown yourself to have completely ignored important discussion on the DN slip which was your entire vote then. DN's points were legitimate whatever DN had flipped. It's the fact that you ignored those points, whatever DN ended up flipping, that I find scummy.

Very well, I misread and thought your "Jordan bomb" list was a "lynch list". I am still unimpressed by the wide range and by the placement of SB on the list, but in context it's less in-your-face scummy. The other points stand firm.

Recent events make me yet more confident.

[Plum]

All of my scumhunting has been genuine and will continue to be if I'm still alive. I just need a certain lynch to happen and if it does, I'm gone without you guys having to use a lynch to kill me. I can almost guarantee that I can bag the SK too based on something in my Role PM.

Spill it all now. All. Now.

Also, what's in it for you?

[Plum]

tall tale

In all likelihood, I admit.

[Plum]

Spill the SK's Rolename, Kmd, and I might let you win. Not live - don't get ideas now - but win.

I think he wins if A) He lynches Sajin or B)Both Sajin and the SK die by other means.

You confirmed that above wincon to be true and confirmed that you don't have to live to win. The SK's rolename could still possibly be instrumental in catching said SK and neither you nor anyone else benefits if you take the info to the grave with you. You're not going to dodge the lynch. So spill; it's in your own best interest because it can help the Town fulfill something that happens to be part of your wincon.

Guys, hold off the hammer for a minute if possible.

Unvote

until Kmd does what both in his and the Town's best benefit.

[Plum]

So you're trying to kill your master Sajin and a guy named the rodent tamer, who arguably fits for a master.

You're saying someone named the rodent tamer can kill people when YOU are the actual rats?

Come on, if you're going to lie be creative about it

Yeah. Pretty odd; shouldn't Sajin, your slavedriver, be the Rodent Tamer? Why should the Rodent Tamer be the SK?

Basically, is that your final answer or if it's not true do you want to do yourself a favor and tell us the truth?

[Plum]

If that's it, then that's it. You can die now by me. VP, KK, shall I leave off my vote so you can poke around with Rosso then? I'm just interested in seeing Kmd hang soon.

[Plum]

Plum, you don't care that I can help the town in ways that are actually confirmable?

Absolutely not. Scum Rolecop, as SpyreX said, sounds plausible. Plus I subscribe to the theory that claimed neutrals ought to be hanged ASAP.

Frankly, I don't trust you to work in the Town's best interests because, guess what, you don't win with the Town. And I'm sure as hell not sure that your claimed wincon is what it says on the package.

@Plum- I think it doesn't hurt anything to test KK's theory. I'm not sure where he is getting it from, but we may as well try it out. Kmd is all but confirmed scum at this point, so there is no better place to test such a theory out.

I'm not entirely sure what benefit I see in publicly outing whether or not Rosso is a doublevoter. Once that's explained fine, now's as good a time as any because Kmd is getting hanged today no question.

[Plum]

Plum, no, I don't win with the town, BUT. The town winning IS in my best interest because it's what would be keeping me alive.

No. Anyway you don't have to survive to win, do you? Or so you claimed previously. Anyway, for the same reason no one leaves a claimed SK around because he says he'll act like a Town-directed Vig. As if.

I'm sorry if you got your hopes up because I unvoted you as an incentive for you to claim info I think the Town could possibly use. Having considered, I see little reason to out whether or not Rosso's a double-voter. If KK comes by and gives me a good explanation we'll see, but for now I'd like to see Kmd hanged ASAP.

Vote: Kmd4390

[Plum]

Plum, I have to be alive when I win. But as soon as I do, I leave the game and a lynch isn't wasted. I agree with you about SKs. I'm not a SK though. I don't kill. There is no harm in me being alive.

I'm not an idiot kthx. I have little reason to believe you're not a member of the Mafia; your behavior with Sajin does little to make me believe he was your lyncher target; quite the opposite (if you listed him as Town how would you justify using a Cop investigation on him anyway?). You're certainly not working in the Town's best interests.

I'm tired of this back-and-forth because it's not going anywhere new.

----------[]

Hammertime plz

[Plum]

[quote="Kmd4390"]Plum, can I see a scumlist? As in who you think is mafia.[/quote]

Tubby is my top suspect besides you. Kublai is an earlier game, partly gut read as scum which bears some serious investigation by me to determine how viable that read is now. The two of them plus probably KaleiÐoscøpe, Sociopath, Cass/Casey, Sajin, are all hopefully going to get rereads from me tonight, because on them I either have no read or other oings in my radar system. This is assuming you flip third-party. You flip Mafia I'm going to do a wagon analysis.

[quote="Kmd4390"]Ok, apparently Plum goes from calling me 3rd party who needs to be lynched to calling me mafia who needs to be lynched.[/quote]

I have little reason to trust you not to be Mafia. Whether you're Mafia or third-party I want you dead.

[Plum]

I think I'm done spamming the thread. Someone hammer. Kmd, the answer to your above and any future questions you pose is "because you are liar liar pants on fire scum".

Lets get this hammer out already, sheesh.

QFT

----------[]

[Plum]

Actually, total truth be told aside from: Llama, Volkan, Plum AND marginally Zito & VP I'd kill any of you if I could.

<3 + agree.

By the way...

I am an Alchemist. Each night I can give someone one of my myriad of potions (and there's alot of them). Of course they're all nice and colored... but not labeled. So I have no idea what my potions can do (but based on colors I can take somewhat of a guess).

Anyone having flashbacks to "I am a Musician?" If you're going to claim, why on earth would you call yourself an Alchemist instead of giving us your real role name? I thought we had already been over this...

Fail. He's obviously giving us a serious Rolename and I don't see why "I am an Alchemist" is bad. What, are you expecting "I am The Alchemist" or something? I do not like this overmuch.

I would be fine with a spyrex lynch.

Vote: SerialClergyman

I don't think Spy's story adds up and I'm suspicious of the death/ghost mechanic. I am in favour of stringing up the poltergeist.

vote Spyrex

milkshake - why can't he be called an Alchemist? He already flagged yesterday that his name didn't end in -ER.

+++ What about Spy's story "didn't add up"? What's suspect about the ghost mechanic. QUANTIFY PLEASE.

When SC quantifies he doesn't do it to my satisfaction. The only thing I find weird about Spy's death is the "natural causes" clause.

There are some scenarios where Spyrex could be scum, now that I think about it. But they are long shots. Most likely, he's telling the truth. He's not the lynch for today.

Besides, we're still waiting for SnowBunny's explanations. With this in mind, milkshake and Clergyman's rush to wagon Spyrex is both scummy and premature. And let me be firm about something. I am not softclaiming anything. It's common sense

I'm a little iffy on Spyrex's claim, honestly. For one, he doesn't have the -er, which thus far (1 3rd party, 1 scum, 3 town flips) has proven a good way to judge claims.

No, because Sculptor was non-Town and non -er. The theory is for now a dark path where trespassers may be eaten by swamp monsters. The logic here is not.

I believe that both SpyreX and Bunny are town.

I thought that they were, basically, mutually exclusive. If you believe that Spy gave SB a potion with intent to kill him, you should at least believe the Spy thought SB was scum, and you probably should also believe that SB quite possibly had an ability that "killed" Spy (or possibly turned his potion back on himself.) So why do you think Bunny is town? What about her inciting people to perform actions on her through her miller claim?

Not mutually exclusive. With everyone having a power there are any number of scenarios which could account for it. Notwithstanding that I'm still waiting to see what, if anything, SB has to day on this. Otherwise I still don't believe SB is a good play today and I certainly don't think Spy is a fruitful lynch.

And yes, I believed Spy to be quite Townie yesterday. Stuff simply has not changed about that today.

3.) In a realm of sheer coincidence, my potion went through, nothing happened to SB that she said and someone else targeted me with something that killed me in such a manner that I appear to have killed myself and yet am still alive (and, of course this would be scum because no one is mentioning DOING this).

Considering that the potion could be an action like, for a simple example, a Doc-type protection, and considering how much power there is out there I'm inclined to believe this in conjunction with my previous read on SB which is mostly, though not totally, reinforced by the KK flip.

Especially as apparently SB claimed something interesting happened to her last night, which I didn't notice previously.

...

Mine does not have that line specifically. However, it does reference the word Special.

*eyebrow raise*

Look, at this point I don't even care if I am the lynch. There could be worse ones.

HOWEVER, I want people to be real clear with why they are on it.

Why does this guve me bad vibes Not very bad vibes, though.

I'm not in a lynching mood yet. No one has given me a good reason why I should lynch Spyrex after he targeted SB last night. If anyone else gave her that ability, now is the time to speak. Doesn't mean I won't lynch you, Spy, because the whole role info/type thing is pretty dodgy, but I'm not feeling the scummy vibes and I'm sticking with gut over setup info for the time being.

Hm. Read back, lines up with your earlier stances considering your claimed ability &c. Ah well,

unvote

.

SB is bit VI. I do not like her attempted application of Occam's Razor (fail). Milkshake's erraticness is also fail, and in this context I mean scummy. I will probably get him in iso and make sure I'm seeing stuff right and pick out stuff of his that looks scummy in this very post, so don't touch that dial.

Uh-oh, I think Vollkan is lying now...

Name: The Mod
Power Type: Active, Passive, Special, or...???
Alignment: With the Council, With the Converters, or….????
Flavor: Blah blah blah, I’m a dirty tramp
Power: Kick Ass
Win Condition: “You win when all who oppose The Council are eliminated.”, “You win when there is no way for the followers of the Council can win.”, or….???

There are 'physical' abilities, which concern material things (example provided was a weapon).
There are 'active' actions, which relate to powers.
And (which is different to the first bit of info I received, but then again the first info wasn't provided as an exclusive list) there is also an 'other' category for different abilities.

He's telling you stuff that he wouldn't tell us? There is both "special" and "other?"

I don't usually believe that scum make obvious mistakes. But this...?

??? is generic "there are other things that can be in this slot" just like for alignment we've seen another wincon &c (with Kmd). Scum fail.

vote: milkshake

There is no reference to The Giver in my PM

What were you doing/where were you/stuff when the Giver died/ the Inner City gates were sealed? ANYTHING? I'm looking into seeing if this theory holds any water or not, okay?

Feel better, Llama.

I have a theory that The Scribe, i.e. scum-Kublai wrote the message that SB-Miller passed on.

Notable stuff about milkshake:

-Random votes Kublai.
-Weird rolefishing/hinting about his own role in response to Kise's joke in the RVS.
-Seems willing or to desire to leave claimed 3rd-party Kmd alive after the claim.
-Accuses SpyreX of fakeclaiming with "I am an Alchemist"

I'm not the hugest fan of flavor arguments, but I can't ignore them when they appear...

Liar liar pants on fire.

Also compare this:

So, what are you suggesting? I'm scum that somehow ghosted myself and am using it to try and kill a miller? Or..?

If you're talking to me, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm pretty happy with your post. The dead-next-night thing seems plausible... it's also very easily testable if we wait.

with this:

Previously, BM and I had said that we could lynch SpyreX tomorow if he didn't dissapear on his own. But I don't think that he's a ghost, and I don't see why he would be fully resurrected for just one day of life.

unvote tubby, vote: SpyreX

Why so flip-floppy? Opportunism? I smell a stench.

- Insinuates that SpyreX/Bunny being town is mutually exclusive when it clearly is not so radical a dichotomy at all - leaving room to push SB if the bandwagons swing?

-Insinuates that SB's suggestions that a Cop can target her to confirm sanity was scummy,

contradicting his earlier positions

on SB (he said her claim sounded legit and discussed the "inciting" incidents quite neutrally). This was done to further the false "either Spy or SB has to be scum" dichotomy he was pressing in the point I mentioned above. remember, HE THOUGHT SB WAS TOWN and the only thing that seem to swing this is his desire to convince Vaya that SpyreX and SB can't both be town.

- Then suggests that SB and Spy might be scumbuddies. HAH. Nice try, no cigar.

-

You stopped me from killing myself, eh?

Is this more of your jester-vigilante-cop antics? Unless your role talks about how you kill yourself because you're totally crazy, then no.

If you believe SpyreX targeted SB with anything, he's probably not scum.

I still doubt SpyreX's claim a little bit. It seems really weird that his role would turn out to be oddly inactive just as a (claimed) tracker targets him, and that his potion, although

meant

to kill Snow_Bunny (a pro-town action), would end up having no effect. However, I can also see how, in the right semi-coincidental circumstances, it could all be true. For example, maybe SB really does do bad things to people who target her. Also, importantly, his most recent posts have been convincing for me with regards to his claim...

Despite the fact that this doesn't address Milkshake's actual flavor reasons for voting SpyreX, that the role-type, diction of rolename claim and such looked scummy.

As I previously mentioned, though, I really can't understand SB's play if she's town. Personally I wouldn't claim miller as scum, but according to people here, it is done fairly often. It would especially make sense if SB interacts with people who target her... although, it wouldn't make sense for her to half-kill those people (like what happened to SpyreX). Maybe SpyreX is secretly NK immune? Maybe he really will die tomorow (I doubt that)? Maybe SB doesn't do the same thing every time someone targets her?

See how he makes a statement - " I really can't understand SB's play if she's town" and completely fails to quantify it. He just says "I've heard that sometimes scum claim Miller. Also maybe she was drawing people to target her which would affect them but that doesn't make sense so random speculation about circumstances". Remember, this AFTER Day 1 stance on SB which was that she was unlikely to flip scum and

Oh, also I was under the definite impression that miller claim was a null-tell or slight town tell because it meant cops had something to test their sanity on.

-

I also agree wholeheartedly with the "witholding a piece of the puzzle is anti-town" thing. I'm also starting to like "SB and SpyreX's scumynesses are mutually exclusive." What I said previously about it being a prearranged scum thing seems unlikely to me now. So I suppose I should switch my vote to the other half of the Spy/SB duality, and

unvote, vote: Snow_Bunny

So, yeah. Let's all lynch Snow_Bunny and see what happens.

What I don't like about this is how Milkshake uses the completely false dichotomy he's set up to help justify the SB lynch. The logic is both BS and scummy.

-

I agree that it's possible everything is fine, the non-ER role and the lack of 'type' is genuine and he's town, but I'm not convinced. What I AM convinced of is SB's reasoning for thinking Spy is scum (and subsequent vote of someone else) is rubbish. More 1-shot ability claiming and SB votes imho.

QFT... My position precisely (put more succintly). I also think SB's behavior regarding her 1-shot ability is scummy. She also has the fact that she was (presumably) targetted by SpyreX, but not harmed working against her, although there are many possible explanations for that.

It's possible I've missed something but I didn't see anything like that from milkshake previously. Scum grabbing onto an actual legit-looking reason and trying to pass it off as his position from before then?

- Says Vollkan is a liar when is obviously not the case. See above the milkshake reread for more details on that.

Just so we got the point:

Vote: milkshake

.

[Plum]

What do you mean by this?

I am not ready to buy milkshake's statement that he is not the hugest fan of flavor arguments - or, I'm not willing to buy both that statement and the premise that he's Town too easily.

[Plum]

People I think need to be lynched in the immediate future:

Benmage
tubby
milkshake

I can deal with this. I think I can also possibly determine whether Tubby is a better lynch than milkshake, my current top suspect.

Tubby, what's your Rolename? Please answer ASAP.

[Plum]

You were a legit suspect yesterday and remain one. Milkshake is scummy, but I'm sticking with this pond.

Unvote; Vote: tubby216

Delay does you no favors. I need to determine if you're a better lynch than Milkshake; please cooperate.

[Plum]

You were a legit suspect yesterday and remain one. Milkshake is scummy, but I'm sticking with this pond.

Unvote; Vote: tubby216

Delay does you no favors. I need to determine if you're a better lynch than Milkshake; please cooperate.

play the game moar, your are using the wrong bait


meh lame

If it's the wrong bait and you won't bite I'll lynch you anyway.

I'll ask you once more:

What is your Role name?

[Plum]

I am The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny
essentially i have the power to entertian children they flock to me in droves, and while they do that it gives me an opurntunity to hide,
I work for thw council in their day care facility

So basically i am a hider i hide at nite last nite i hid behind milkshake who if milkshake were a converter i'd be killed

are we all satisfied now??

Yes, thanks. Any Giver-related goodness there, out of curiosity?

Yay agreement with a milk wagon! Was starting to think that I was insane for thinking he was scum since no one else seemed to show interest there.

You're not insane, I saw it too. But now one of my top suspects has at least told the truth about his Rolename and appears to say he's cleared Milk, my other op suspect. So I need to reread a little, I think.

Unvote

while I think a bit.

[Plum]

Plum, unless you can explain how "happy hoppy fuzzy bunny" is a viable rolename, your unvote is plain antitown.

It's a viable Rolename because the Mod said so.

....

Just so I have this right:

Plum, you KNOW that he is The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny?

I'm dead inside.

Yes. I'm dead serious.

[Plum]

The... mod said so?

Oh, close your shocked gape or you'll end up with flies down your throat.

[Plum]

The... mod said so?

Oh, close your shocked gape or you'll end up with flies down your throat.

or boils...god i'm so sick (on such a strong antibiotic atm one of the warning is "rarely fatal"

Keep breathing, Ben.

[Plum]

*chokes*

When did the mod make such a claim plausible?

My rolename, along with all the outed ones, are much more serious.

Also, happy hoppy fuzzy bunny doesn't end in -xr

Stop fishing kthx. Fact is I know its true. Unless you actively suspect me for this alone I'd rather not say more, okay?

[Plum]

Unvote

Plum. I believe you.

Thus, I'll believe that ridiculous claim for the moment.

Thus, I'll believe milkshake.

WELP

Vote: Benmage

I'm not CERTAIN that Tubby is Town, only that he is telling the truth about his Rolename. That fact, though, has given me much pause. I'll read up Benmage, but can I get a handy summary from someone possibly?

Hate to break it to you, but I'm not the type to trust someone just cuz the say they hold the truth.

Post a case or stop fishing. Right now I'm not interested in saying more than I've already said, and if you don't believe me I have still better things to do than argue with you that I'm right and give up more info than I have.

[Plum]

HAI GUYZ WATS GOIN ON IN DIS THREAD

STUFF

[Plum]

Wait, what kind of passive information could Plum have that would inform her of Tubby's role?

I'm not buying it.

Use your imagination.

I'm not good at waiting. Especially when the answer seems clear and asking for said answer doesn't seem awesome*.

Note: This means if you have MYSTIC INFORMATION (TM) saying Plum is lying in the greatest of scum maneuvers, then go for it. If not, the above post just says simply "I AM TUBBIES SCUM PARTNER THANKS IN ADVANCE"

I'm done with this day. Its time for blood.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

*This is for town-awesome. Scum it would be awesome, but then you would be dead for being scum soo

I'll let Plum tell you.

Tell SpyreX what, pray tell?

[Plum]

So you roleblocked Plum?

OMG ROLE FISHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean, yes.

Oh, now you make some sense. My info comes courtesy of an action taken by someone who was apparently not roleblocked. This info is shared between us. I personally did not attempt an active action last Night.

[Plum]

Plum, m'dear, one more question:

This wasn't in the form of a "note" was it?

Absolutely not.

[Plum]

So you roleblocked Plum?

OMG ROLE FISHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean, yes.

Oh, now you make some sense. My info comes courtesy of an action taken by someone who was apparently not roleblocked. This info is shared between us. I personally did not attempt an active action last Night.

This is the kind of thing I would have loved to hear prior to claiming RBer, and yet you waited, and gleefully share that information now. I guess you had to change your claim a little bit to shy away from anything conveniently active.

I had no idea you blocked me and I wanted to avoid outing more than I already had; when it became clear that you had a reasonably reason to doubt that I could have the info I claimed to have I told you more about how my role worked which explained how I had that info despite being RB'd. There was no "glee" involved. I never felt the need to change my claim and have told only the truth. If I feel necessary this can be confirmed by someone other than myself pretty easily. I don't feel that at this point it is, however.

[Plum]

Llama, I performed no active action last night. Thus any Roleblock on me achieved nothing. The action which gave me the info was taken by someone else and the info made known to me passively.

[Plum]

Oh this game.

@Plum- Is sociopath scum? Why did you not say this before when you attempted to confirm someone else? I want to know your thought process here.

It's possible Sociopath is a non-Town RB. Right now I'm inclined to believe that he's Town and thought he caught scum in a lie. He did not, but with the info that was apparently available to him at the time it makes sense.

My thought process was: I have information about Tubby. Tubby has looked scummy since Day 1, is being considered by some for the lynch, and my info has not revealed his alignment to me. So why don't I test to see whether he lies about the info about him at my disposal? It would also be nice if I avoid giving out info about my abilities and role before that's necessary, so I'll be a bit cryptic. Especially considering the weird Rolename, it's worth testing to see whether Tubby will lie and prove himself scum or not.

Then he claimed his Rolename truthfully and claimed a believable role.

I am so close to tears because of this game.

Plum, please help us connect the dots.

How can you drop this, and expect us all to go on our merry way?

It's fairly simple. Someone else took an action last night which revealed the info about Tubby. This information was automatically shared with me and this player - straight from the Mod's mouth - as a passive function of our roles. Because this player was not roleblocked the action was successul.

[Plum]

I am really pissed at tubby wagon being de-railed.

@

Plum

: Was there something in the information you got that indicated tubby was town?

No. I'm not voting right now and in the near future - this weekend, I hope - I'll do a reread of him and Benmage and possibly KScope. I hesitated because he claimed his true Rolename; this makes me somewhat more inclined to believe he's Town but it's not my final word on his scumminess.

[Plum]

I guess what gets me is, from the way I read it, it really seems like Plum was expecting him to lie. Which doesn't make sense as scum.

Also, with the amazing amount of fragmentation we've had would you say KS is a BAD lynch?

Yes, hope springs eternal. I had a scum read on Tubby yesterday before the Kmd bomb really started to tick, which is why the Rolecop action was on him. When he started to gather some votes, I hoped that if he was scum I could nudge him into lying under pressure and confirming it.

KScope and Benmage are both kinda nice, wagon-wise. I'd like to do more in-depth rereading here at the moment but schoolwork is breathing down my neck like a fiery dragon.

Benmage:

Claimed VT. In this game I could lynch just for that/possibly should.

KScope:

Has done nothing pretty deliberately.

Vote: KScope

- let's go.

[Plum]

Benmage:

Claimed VT. In this game I could lynch just for that/possibly should.

I've answred this. It was absolutely stupid to keep wagoning people only to claim and chase someone else. I said I'll give name and flavor but not PR.

Mmmmf.

[Plum]

Dayum, Plum. Even I caught the fact that Benmage didn't settle for the VT claim.

Call me slow and/or busy and/or eyeballs were falling out of my head last I really had time.

[Plum]

Ok, I appreciate the lynch-lust, and it clearly has done its job... so, yeah, woohoo... but I think that lynching Kaleidoscope without a claim is dumb. (I'm really only stating the obvious here, right? "Oh btw I'm post-restricted auto-confirmed-after-night-2 NK-immune cop." "Oh, lynch anyway.") I think we shouldn't necessarily listen to him, and I think lynching him

with

a claim is totally fine. But lynching him without a claim doesn't make alot of sense to me...?

Question: Can K-Scope even post?

(Plus... if we're random-lynching, we could learn more by lynching someone involved in the tubby/(me)/plum/sociopath thing, although personally I only really doubt the sociopath part of it.)

No. I'm not lying, and, as everyone sane has said, it's unlikely that I could be. Plus I do know someone who can confirm me. My info makes Tubby a less-than-optimal lynch, Town-Tubby implies Town-Milkshake (though if we lynch you and you flip scum it would be useful info, but I doubt that's what you implied and I also think you're a suboptimal lynch). Sociopath almost certainly has RB powers. I could stand his lynch at a stretch but it's really on nothing - he's not involved to that degree because he in no way could have affected me receiving info and I have someone who can prove that. Not a Town-proof but not a case on scum so yeah.

If

Scope is scum I'm looking at you . . . I've

been

scum cleared by a Weak Doc.

I support KScope telling us all his flavor, though, if he's around; it'd be a nice bonus. I was thinking about KK being 'The Scribe' and scum - remember the note SB said in flavor 'Millerized' her when she passed it on? With that info I might have deduced The Scribe = more likely to be scum had KK been the one Rolename-copped (and had he survived the Night). Basically, flavor could be useful.

[Plum]

No. I'm not lying, and, as everyone sane has said, it's unlikely that I could be. Plus I do know someone who can confirm me. My info makes Tubby a less-than-optimal lynch, Town-Tubby implies Town-Milkshake (though if we lynch you and you flip scum it would be useful info, but I doubt that's what you implied and I also think you're a suboptimal lynch). Sociopath almost certainly has RB powers. I could stand his lynch at a stretch but it's really on nothing - he's not involved to that degree because he in no way could have affected me receiving info and I have someone who can prove that. Not a Town-proof but not a case on scum so yeah.

If Scope is scum I'm looking at you . . . I've been scum cleared by a Weak Doc.

Ok... very confused here. I never said you were lying... not sure if you think that I did or not. All I'm saying is that lynching anyone involved in the you/socio/tubby interaction thing would yeild more information than lynching K-scope. I think the interaction is fairly townie, so I'm basically willing to let it sit as "confirmed," but my mention of the matter was just an example to demonstrate that we

could

get real info out of a lynch, and this lynch might gain us absolutely nothing if we do it wrong...

I'd rather lynch someone scummy/absolutely useless than someone likely to be Town. Sure we could get info - but why fairly little info at the expense of a lynch too likely to hit a useful Townie/someone who no one is really arguing is/has done anything lynch-worthy?

The last part of this is what confused me the most, though. Unless I missed something big, I don't have any relation to K-scope...

As a buddy you might try to stall the lynch long enough so he can claim and wiggle out alive - and you also suggest lynching one one the ones involved in Tubby's claim even though you acknowledge the interactions there to be mostly Townie when the KScope wagon has gained a lot of steam in a short amount of time. But I'd rather burn that bridge when I come to it, okay? The only good reason I'm not lynching you is that Tubby's claim, if true, makes you very prob-Town (or very prob-not-Converter, depending on the details of Tubby's role).

[Plum]

SP, who did you block last night?

[Plum]

Well, go figure. I guess this is my death sentence. I investigated DGB last night, with a "no result" (this is, he wasn't a converter). But, as he turned up dead, I guess that investigation is useless.

So, I'm a girl of word, and if you are to lynch me today I will raise no objections.

Why did you investigate DGB? Answer this in your next post to my satisfaction.

[Plum]

SC - is your block a normal-type roleblock or does it have any additional features? Yes there's a reason I'm asking.

[Plum]

SC only BENIFITS from those with active powers. And I have yet to see scum with 'active' powers.

Dunno, KK's note-sending sounded pretty active to me. I'm pretty sure the Converters have Goma powers just the same as Town; they've just turned on the Council, the Giver &c.

You didn't answer my question:

SC - is your block a normal-type roleblock or does it have any additional features? Yes there's a reason I'm asking.

[Plum]

You didn't answer my question:

In my last post I gave you every single bit of information about the roleblock I have. I can't answer it any more thoroughly, I'm sorry.

Was talking to SocioPath. You both have the same initials.

[Plum]

SP vs SC?

But that's cool, no worries.

Whoops. Mental block. It happens .


SC, I'm asking you. Sorry for the confusion.

[Plum]

As far as I know, it blocks anything thats an active choice at night, as said before.

But this would affect only Elmo, yes?

[Plum]

Also:

@Plum: Do you know that your partner is town?

No, I am not certain of that. I'm pretty sure that that's the case, but there is no confirmation. However, there is no possible way that that player's Night 1 results could have been lied about; the info came straight from the Mod.

[Plum]

Did you receive the info or did your partner, Plum?

We both receive the info. Night 1 the other player actually executed the action. There is no possible way for the other player to tamper with the results.

[Plum]

Also:

@Plum: Do you know that your partner is town?

No, I am not certain of that. I'm pretty sure that that's the case, but there is no confirmation. However, there is no possible way that that player's Night 1 results could have been lied about; the info came straight from the Mod.

At least now I don't need to throw 3 scum reads out the window. As I understand it, its your partners ability, but you both get results? Is that correct?

Not quite. Amend that too "it was my partner who used the ability Night 1 and we both got the results" and you have it.

My partner does not know I'm Town. We have compared flavor and it both matches up one to the other and matches up to other flavor revealed in the thread.

Three scum reads? How does this keep you from tossing them out the window, though?

I need Elmo to post ASAP. I have reason to suspect SP may be lying about the nature of his Roleblock ability, but coincidence happens so I'm planning to reserve judgment for a bit.

[Plum]

hi?

Yar. SP blocked you. I'm not sure he's revealing the whole truth. Or maybe the problem is with you. Whaddaya say?

[Plum]

Idea: who was it who kept encouraging Rosso/Elmo to vote Day 1 so we could see whether or not he was a doublevote? Kublai Khan. What was Kublai? Converter. Does doublevote mean auto-Council? Not as far as I know. What could Kublai's motivations have been to do that? Either to rolefish or to try to get Rosso/Elmo confirmed doublevoter, which some might press as auto-town. Who just basically did the same thing? Dramonic. Possible scumbags? Elmo, dramonic. Also worth noting is the fact that VP supported KK's push to test whether Rosso was a doublevoter.

Unrelated bonus: At least one of the following is true:

a) SP is not telling the whole truth about his role and is scum (or outside chance he doesn't know something important about his role)
b) Elmo is not telling the whole truth about his role and is scum
c) There is another RB-sorta thing going around like the flu

I hear SpyreX on Benmage (and Zito) but need to reread before I'm sure that's the best direction to take.

[Plum]

well, personally I believe giving scum a double-vote is extremely balance breaking.

Now where is that damn milkshake?

That's betting that there are no ways around that, which is a bet I'm not necessarily willing to take. KK's interaction there is weird and he was scum.

[Plum]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean until further notice we shouldn't keep a DVer alive. We have nothing showing us the mafia team is particularely weak and would require a double vote to be back in the game, so...

But we do have the weird interaction with Kublai towards Rosso late Day 1. I haven't yet suggested that we lynch Elmo and I'm not voting him right now - but him being a DV is not going to get me to disregard that at all. If anything KK might have tried to use the doublevote proof, had it happened before he died, to push his buddy Rosso as nearly-confirmed Town. That's one thing the interaction might well suggest.

[Plum]

Considering my read of Milk yesterday and the additional gain of scum-Tubby if that is true, please claim the info.

Zito, leaning scummish on Dramonic, but would love the info from him all the same.

[Plum]

During day 1 I noticed no one had been hung, so I decided to jailkeep Plum Night 2 to see if SP had been the one to block the kills.

I can confirm that I was blocked, as can my as-yet-unrevealed-friend. Good observation by dramonic, very good reason to try blocking me, excellent reason to believe that the scumread on Milkshake is not unreliable bleeping of the scumdar. Doesn't change that much about Tubby either way, but anyway.

Unvote; Vote: Milkshake

[Plum]

During day 1 I noticed no one had been hung, so I decided to jailkeep Plum Night 2 to see if SP had been the one to block the kills.

I can confirm that I was blocked, as can my as-yet-unrevealed-friend.

Is that the mystery info that you thought was a part of my role?

It was possible. I was pretty ticked to have been Roleblocked last night. But yes, apologies.

[Plum]

plum says she was informed of her jailkeeping, and since I wasn't, I instantly know they're both lying!

Yeah no, because my ability actually gets an investigation-type result. It is standard to get a "no result/you were blocked" response when a normal response would be "Player X is the XXXX". Remember, I was blocked N1 but I didn't use the active, specific-Mod-told-result action and thus wasn't informed; I'm only informed when I

don't get any results

due to blockage

. You say you don't get specifically-told results like that, so. Furthermore my partner in this can back me up on this, but that won't be necessary; your flailing has only helped convince me that if you're Converter my friend is even less likely to be Converter.

Dramonic, can the player inside the bubble be targeted at all? I realize I took that a bit for granted when I first read your claim. If so, Hider (generally, as far as I know) does not get an official investigation result and probably would not even be informed if blocked.

Re: The Calmer: I would say I had a gut feeling that not everyone mentioned/implicated in the opening flavor posts was Town, but it doesn't matter at this point, scum. It would be funny if you tranquilized people and made Cop-type roles naive, though. If that's true I totally called it.

I vote we out plums partner before lynching milk.

My partner can take his or her sweet time on that, kthx. Remind me why I thought you were Town? I've forgotten. Not claim-wise, I'll reread that soon; I just was suspicious of you yesterday and can't remember exactly what alleviated the suspicion.

[Plum]

Are you getting confirmations that your actions WORKED or just that the mod RECEIVED them? This needs to be answered doubly by the roleblockers.

Night 1, action received by the Mod and worked (this confirmed by the Mod, and that's how I knew Tubby's rolename).
Night 2, action received by the Mod and blocked (this confirmed by the Mod, and that's why I don't have a Rolename result today).

Did you get RB flavor both nights? 1 night?

Only if the action was blocked was Roleblock flavor given, because the Roleblock could only affect the active action. Night 1 my partner officially took the action. Night 2 I did and was blocked, presumably by dramonic. Because the targeter wasn't blocked Night 1 the action was not blocked, hence no declaration by the Mod that I was blocked. Because the targeter

was

blocked Night 2 the action [/i]was[/i] blocked and the Mod told us that I was blocked (as opposed to gave us the result of the investigation).

It may be time for your partner to come out. Are you confirmed town?

My partner coming out will not confirm me to be Town, nor will it confirm my partner. Neither of us has Mod-confirmation on the other's alignment. We are both very much inclined to believe the other is Town, however, and my partner can confirm that I am telling the truth about the role and the interactions I've been claiming.

Is there another rolecop report?

No, because I took the Rolecopping action and I was blocked. That was part of why I was so ticked at the start of today and thought it possible that SP was scum and responsible for the block.

The question we really need answered is: Dramonic, does the bubble you create make the target otherwise untargetable/block

any

actions made on that player that Night?

[Plum]

Dramonic: Excellent, thanks. For full confirmation of my theory about why Tubby's Night 1 hide now doesn't prove anything about Milk's alignment, we need to ask something of Tubby's Night 2 target.

Tubby: did you hide behind Battle Mage or Benmage? Ambitiousness wants clarification.

[Plum]

Yeah no, because my ability actually gets an investigation-type result. It is standard to get a "no result/you were blocked" response when a normal response would be "Player X is the XXXX".

Whhaaaat...? Did you not understand that what I am saying or did you intentionally make an unrelated response? I don't get a result. I wasn't talking about any results. I'm talking about dramonic claiming to jailkeep you, you claiming to be notified, dramonic claiming to jailkeep me, and me not getting notified.

Because you don't get any sort of confirmation that your results actually go through. By the nature of your sanifying role, I suppose you do not get any confirmation on whether your action was blocked, whether it was successful, whether it hit someone who didn't have anything to get sanified, whatever. By the very nature of my/my partner's investigative, Cop-type role, I

do

get a result - we get told the Rolename of the player targeted. So if our action gets blocked the Mod

does

tell us by implication that our action was successful and if we don't get a result tells us what is fairly obvious anyway - the action was blocked and unsuccessful.

It has nothing to do with the nature of Dramonic's

specific

action and everything to do with the nature of

your

action versus the nature of

my/my partner's

action.

Oh, so you're saying that the only reason you were informed of your jailkeeping is because your ability failed. (Weak reason, since my ability doesn't get a response I'm not sure why yours would). Also, if that's the only way in which you were informed, what about your supposed jailkeep buddy or whatever that was about?

MY ABILITY GETS A RESPONSE BECAUSE THE MOD FREAKING TELLS US THE RESULT OF THE INVESTIGATION EVERY NIGHT! THAT'S WHY IT GETS A RESULT! My partner can confirm that and confirm that we received the info about the block in the same way we received the result on Tubby - simultaneously, straight from the mouth of the Mod.

Furthermore, are you really buying the ridiculous reasoning that I was, according to dramonic, jailkept on the one night out of two that someone was not killed via strangulation (which was probably completely unrelated to who killed them) so I must be a serial killer? That's just silly!

With the

only

reason for me not to have a scum read on you - the Tubby action Night 1 - effectively negated at this point (because it's clear that you were made untargetable Night 1), and the fact that there was a Strangulation kill missing Night 1 when you were blocked and present Night 2 when you weren't, I'm sure as hell willing to vote for you. I don't care if you're Converter, SK, or whatever, because you're almost certainly anti-Town scum who can kill and I want lynched; I don't feel the need to get bogged down in the specifics of what sort of scum you are; you're scum O want dead and that's enough. Like dramonic said, it's vaguely possible that the Strangle action targeted you Night 1 and failed due to the jailkeeping, but with my scumread on you from yesterday, I'm more than happy to lynch you.

Stop flailing and go peacefully unless you can be funny at it like Kmd, plz.

plum, if your partner isn't confirmed town, why the secrecy?

Scum now know that they can block me, but if my partner stays secret that player can perform the action instead with less risk of getting blocked (and yes, there was a good reason that even though I was exposed yesterday we decided that I should took the action; but keeping my partner secret may still be beneficial for the reason listed above in the future).

[Plum]

But see... I never got anything like that. So if you're going to stick to that we still have a conflict.

If you'd gotten it you wouldn't see any supposed conflict because there is none.

B)Otherwise, jailkept people are not notified. (Plum says the exact opposite in her last post, unless I "misunderstood" again...)
C)Tubby voted me because he can hide behind serial killers and is 100% positive I'm a Serial Killer (that's just silly).

B) You must have, because I said specifically that I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the RB.

C) You were untargetable Night 1 - that is, any actions on you didn't go through. Tubby, I presume, does not get confirmation on whether he got blocked or not; he just wakes up alive or doesn't (and if he's alive and his action was successful - which he can't know by himself - it means that he must have hidden behind Town/Non-Converter [need clarification here]). But because you were untargetable his action did not go through and thus your alignment did not have any bearing on him surviving Night 1 because he didn't actually successfully hide behind you. Thus he didn't clear you. So.

[Plum]

I said specifically that I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the RB.

My bad, last line should read

I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the action which could be RB'd (and it wasn't).

Sorry about the miswording. We did have a result Night 1 because my partner investigated successfully. Oh, Spy, I see you asked the same question; answered here.

I

had

a result Night 1. The Rolecopping ability is shared; one of us can use it per Night. Night 1 my partner used it; the Roleblock on me did nothing. The result (including a 'blocked' result) is automatically shared straight from the Mod;'s mouth with both of us.

That's quite the coincidental interaction. Even if I was untargetable, does that change my alignment? Does tubby survive if he doesn't hide behind anyone? Does tubby's ability actually need to actively target someone in order to check their alignment?

If the action didn't go through at all he didn't Hide behind you. That means that even if you're scum, because he didn't hide behind you, hiding behind milk-scum would not have killed him because the action was blocked but he wasn't informed because it wasn't an action that normally get's info written directly from the Mod. A Hider needs to successfully Hide in order to determine alignment just like a Cop needs to successfully investigate; the difference is that a Hider's results are implied and he's not informed whether he's successful or not, just wakes up alive {= either successfully targeted Town/Not-scum or didn't successfully Hide} or dies {=was actively killed or Hid successfully behind Not-Town/Scum}. Basically, if he targeted you while you were untargetable the results are as useful as if he hadn't attempted to Hide at all, because the Hide action didn't go through.

[Plum]

I did not execute the ability Night 1 and so a roleblock/jailkeeping could not affect whether or not my partner and I received a result, so we got no notice. But we always get a notice about our actual action: either an investigation result of a "targeter got blocked". I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the RB.

Just explain to me what you're talking about here. Who is executing a roleblock and what exactly was the result of all your various night actions that appear to come from no where, which I must have missed your original explanation of.

And, most importantly, what on earth does it have to do with a jailkeeping supposedly working on you when it didn't work on me?

Relevant Night Actions

Night 1:

*Partner Rolecop-investigates Tubby
*Plum does nothing
*SocioPath Roleblocks Plum ---> No effect because Plum doesn't attempt an active action
*dramonic Jailkeeps milkshake
*Tubby Hides behind milkshake ----> Unsuccessful because milkshake is Jailed

Night 2:

*dramonic Jailkeeps Plum
*Partner does nothing
*Plum Investigates (someone) ---> No result because of dramonic's Jail, Mod tells us that
*Tubby hides behind BM (Battle Mage or Benmage???)

[Plum]

EBWOP:

*Partner Rolecop-investigates Tubby ---> Mod tells us that Tubby is "The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny"

[Plum]

My bad, last line should read I wasn't notified because it didn't affect the action results Night 1 because my partner, not I, executed the action which could be RB'd (and it wasn't). Sorry about the miswording. We did have a result Night 1 because my partner investigated successfully. Oh, Spy, I see you asked the same question; answered here.

I had a result Night 1. The Rolecopping ability is shared; one of us can use it per Night. Night 1 my partner used it; the Roleblock on me did nothing. The result (including a 'blocked' result) is automatically shared straight from the Mod;'s mouth with both of us.

SocioPath Roleblocks Plum ---> No effect because Plum doesn't attempt an active action
Plum Investigates (someone) ---> No result because of dramonic's Jail, Mod tells us that

Thanks for clearing that up (really) but wow that is so handy for you and so mostly invented after it was made apparent that you needed it.

As I think someone already mentioned, there should definitely also be your partner's claim and confirmation, because then if you're scum, it digs you in even deeper, but if you're town there's no big disadvantage.

It actually wasn't made up at all, if you've been reading the last heap of pages.

Oh my partner, if/when you're around use your judgment and claim who you are and that you can verify all my info if you think it best. I doubt it'll be necessary because it's only the lying Milk officially calling for it now and I'd rather not do thus on the demand of an almost-certain scumbag. If we have more official calls for this from people we've discussed that we trust more, I'd say go ahead. If not, it's probably in the best interest of the Town not to do so.

[Plum]

Plus the fact that the only thing that kept me from trying to lynch you yesterday was Tubby's claim to have Hid behind you. It's now clear that he did not successfully hide behind you and the only thing supporting my grudging Town-read on you is negated. Plus your behavior once called out. Lots of misrepping/playing dumb doesn't do much for your case, sugar-beverage. Plus the fact that it's reasonably likely due to claimed actions that you are the guy who kills by Strangulation and yeah, I'm pretty sure you're scum.

String 'em up, y'all.

[Plum]

Yes, Vaya's my neighbor-friend-dude. I basically believe he's Town, though am uncertain. I disagree with many of his reads (Llama, Sajin, milk Benmage reads mostly, also maybe VP pending reread of him) but most of them basically make sense in conjunction with what he's said to me about the game as its progressed. Vaya has answered the other questions in the thread truthfully as well. We also have flavor information that, in conjunction with the Kublai-scum flip, makes us inclined to believe SB's roleclaim. If I recall, you'll see Vaya's opinions change after she notes the flavor of SB's claim.

Scumlist:

Suspect 1: milkshake
Suspects 2-5: stark, Sajin, Benmage, Elmo

Remember, if you suspect Battle Mage, that Tubby claims to have hid behind him successfully last night.

I have reasons to believe that Milk is scum other than Dram's theory that he's the strangler-guy - namely, a strong scum read from yesterday. I initially thought it negated due to Tubby's Hider claim, but if Dram is telling the truth about his role (or at least

enough

truth about his role) the Hide was unsuccessful anyway and tells us nothing about Milk's alignment. I need to do a reread, post a case on Milk later tonight (hopefully). Oh, well, I'll resurrect my Day 2 post on Milk for now:

I believe that both SpyreX and Bunny are town.

I thought that they were, basically, mutually exclusive. If you believe that Spy gave SB a potion with intent to kill him, you should at least believe the Spy thought SB was scum, and you probably should also believe that SB quite possibly had an ability that "killed" Spy (or possibly turned his potion back on himself.) So why do you think Bunny is town? What about her inciting people to perform actions on her through her miller claim?

Not mutually exclusive. With everyone having a power there are any number of scenarios which could account for it. Notwithstanding that I'm still waiting to see what, if anything, SB has to day on this. Otherwise I still don't believe SB is a good play today and I certainly don't think Spy is a fruitful lynch.

Milkshake's erraticness is also fail, and in this context I mean scummy. I will probably get him in iso and make sure I'm seeing stuff right and pick out stuff of his that looks scummy in this very post, so don't touch that dial.

Uh-oh, I think Vollkan is lying now...

Name: The Mod
Power Type: Active, Passive, Special, or...???
Alignment: With the Council, With the Converters, or….????
Flavor: Blah blah blah, I’m a dirty tramp
Power: Kick Ass
Win Condition: “You win when all who oppose The Council are eliminated.”, “You win when there is no way for the followers of the Council can win.”, or….???

There are 'physical' abilities, which concern material things (example provided was a weapon).
There are 'active' actions, which relate to powers.
And (which is different to the first bit of info I received, but then again the first info wasn't provided as an exclusive list) there is also an 'other' category for different abilities.

He's telling you stuff that he wouldn't tell us? There is both "special" and "other?"

I don't usually believe that scum make obvious mistakes. But this...?

??? is generic "there are other things that can be in this slot" just like for alignment we've seen another wincon &c (with Kmd). Scum fail.

vote: milkshake

Notable stuff about milkshake:

-Random votes Kublai.
-Weird rolefishing/hinting about his own role in response to Kise's joke in the RVS.
-Seems willing or to desire to leave claimed 3rd-party Kmd alive after the claim.
-Accuses SpyreX of fakeclaiming with "I am an Alchemist"

I'm not the hugest fan of flavor arguments, but I can't ignore them when they appear...

Liar liar pants on fire.

Also compare this:

So, what are you suggesting? I'm scum that somehow ghosted myself and am using it to try and kill a miller? Or..?

If you're talking to me, I'm not suggesting anything. I'm pretty happy with your post. The dead-next-night thing seems plausible... it's also very easily testable if we wait.

with this:

Previously, BM and I had said that we could lynch SpyreX tomorow if he didn't dissapear on his own. But I don't think that he's a ghost, and I don't see why he would be fully resurrected for just one day of life.

unvote tubby, vote: SpyreX

Why so flip-floppy? Opportunism? I smell a stench.

- Insinuates that SpyreX/Bunny being town is mutually exclusive when it clearly is not so radical a dichotomy at all - leaving room to push SB if the bandwagons swing?

-Insinuates that SB's suggestions that a Cop can target her to confirm sanity was scummy,

contradicting his earlier positions

on SB (he said her claim sounded legit and discussed the "inciting" incidents quite neutrally). This was done to further the false "either Spy or SB has to be scum" dichotomy he was pressing in the point I mentioned above. Remember, HE THOUGHT SB WAS TOWN and the only thing that seemed to swing this is his desire to convince Vaya that SpyreX and SB can't both be town.

- Then suggests that SB and Spy might be scumbuddies. HAH. Nice try, no cigar.

-

You stopped me from killing myself, eh?

Is this more of your jester-vigilante-cop antics? Unless your role talks about how you kill yourself because you're totally crazy, then no.

If you believe SpyreX targeted SB with anything, he's probably not scum.

I still doubt SpyreX's claim a little bit. It seems really weird that his role would turn out to be oddly inactive just as a (claimed) tracker targets him, and that his potion, although

meant

to kill Snow_Bunny (a pro-town action), would end up having no effect. However, I can also see how, in the right semi-coincidental circumstances, it could all be true. For example, maybe SB really does do bad things to people who target her. Also, importantly, his most recent posts have been convincing for me with regards to his claim...

Despite the fact that this doesn't address Milkshake's actual flavor reasons for voting SpyreX, that the role-type, diction of rolename claim and such looked scummy.

As I previously mentioned, though, I really can't understand SB's play if she's town. Personally I wouldn't claim miller as scum, but according to people here, it is done fairly often. It would especially make sense if SB interacts with people who target her... although, it wouldn't make sense for her to half-kill those people (like what happened to SpyreX). Maybe SpyreX is secretly NK immune? Maybe he really will die tomorow (I doubt that)? Maybe SB doesn't do the same thing every time someone targets her?

See how he makes a statement - " I really can't understand SB's play if she's town" and completely fails to quantify it. He just says "I've heard that sometimes scum claim Miller. Also maybe she was drawing people to target her which would affect them but that doesn't make sense so random speculation about circumstances". Remember, this AFTER Day 1 stance on SB which was that she was unlikely to flip scum and

Oh, also I was under the definite impression that miller claim was a null-tell or slight town tell because it meant cops had something to test their sanity on.

-

I also agree wholeheartedly with the "witholding a piece of the puzzle is anti-town" thing. I'm also starting to like "SB and SpyreX's scumynesses are mutually exclusive." What I said previously about it being a prearranged scum thing seems unlikely to me now. So I suppose I should switch my vote to the other half of the Spy/SB duality, and

unvote, vote: Snow_Bunny

So, yeah. Let's all lynch Snow_Bunny and see what happens.

What I don't like about this is how Milkshake uses the completely false dichotomy he's set up to help justify the SB lynch. The logic is both BS and scummy.

-

I agree that it's possible everything is fine, the non-ER role and the lack of 'type' is genuine and he's town, but I'm not convinced. What I AM convinced of is SB's reasoning for thinking Spy is scum (and subsequent vote of someone else) is rubbish. More 1-shot ability claiming and SB votes imho.

QFT... My position precisely (put more succintly). I also think SB's behavior regarding her 1-shot ability is scummy. She also has the fact that she was (presumably) targetted by SpyreX, but not harmed working against her, although there are many possible explanations for that.

It's possible I've missed something but I didn't see anything like that from milkshake previously. Scum grabbing onto an actual legit-looking reason and trying to pass it off as his position from before then?

- Says Vollkan is a liar when is obviously not the case. See above the milkshake reread for more details on that.

Just so we got the point:

Vote: milkshake

.

[Plum]

Ok, based on my LoS, and subsequent flips and comments, i'd say my 3rd suspect is Plum. KK flipping Mafia reflects badly on her, and my case on Sajin is undermined by KMD flipping non-Mafia. That said, her claim could get her out of trouble. If she and Vaya need to be tested, Plum should go first. Then again, meta-wise, im less sure.

Eh, a fullclaim will resolve this either way.

BM

Is that a call for a fullclaim, my friend?

DRAMONIC: Yesterday everyone put Milk in the 'prob Town if Tubby is telling the truth due to the Hider claim' bin. You KNEW that Milk was untargetable Night 1 and thus that Tubby's Hide attempt proved nothing about Milk's alignment. WHY did you not speak up about this???

[Plum]

Ok, based on my LoS, and subsequent flips and comments, i'd say my 3rd suspect is Plum. KK flipping Mafia reflects badly on her, and my case on Sajin is undermined by KMD flipping non-Mafia. That said, her claim could get her out of trouble. If she and Vaya need to be tested, Plum should go first. Then again, meta-wise, im less sure.

Eh, a fullclaim will resolve this either way.

BM

Is that a call for a fullclaim, my friend?

DRAMONIC: Yesterday everyone put Milk in the 'prob Town if Tubby is telling the truth due to the Hider claim' bin. You KNEW that Milk was untargetable Night 1 and thus that Tubby's Hide attempt proved nothing about Milk's alignment. WHY did you not speak up about this???

Because yesterday I was quite suspicious of YOU plum. SO I wasnt really buying the namecop mason daytalk claim.

But why didn't you just say: "By the way, guys, I have info that Tubby's action on Milk couldn't have succeeded and thus the fact of his survival is meaningless"?

[Plum]

Vaya. Live the burn. BUT. Mod clarification neded, because:

“It is true, The Giver has been murdered. Strangled in his very chambers.

I'd noticed it before, but it not being very relevant at the time it slipped my mind.

[Plum]

SpyreX had no clue what his potion did; it may have done something invisible.

Flavor or not, the word of the Mod in the thread vs. Sajin's claimed "clarification" . . .

Unvote; Vote" Sajin

[Plum]

The MOD TOLD ME male and now says he clarified female by PM.

@Mod am I allowed to quote this communication?

I can see him/her typoing. I'm having more trouble seeing mother/father typoing.

[Plum]

Sajin: You realize Tubby claimed he hid behind Battle Mage and survived y/n?

[Plum]

Unvote; Vote: Dramonic

Combined with not speaking up about Milkshake not being confirmed if Tubby was Town, 2733 = whooosh. I'd rather trust to this right now than the assumption that Dram is not lying and Milk is I dunno what due to reason #1.

[Plum]

Tubby: To confirm, you don't get actual Mod PMs about whether your Hide failed - yes or no?

[Plum]

Milkshake: whom did you target last night?

[Plum]

No drugs here.

SB is prob not Converter.

So. We have a scumgroup (that's one group and clearly one separate alignment), probably an SK who strangles, and possibly a cult. Dram's behavior on the Sajin wagon suggests a strong connection which I mislike.

What are good cult RECRUITER tells? I want to know.

Stark, you've suspected Tubby since I don't know when. Why have you not investigated him for drugs, pray tell? I understand the PZ thing. Why me and KScope?

[Plum]

Amend Milk to "not Converter" and my stamp of approval approves.

[Plum]

I'm actually willing to bet that BM is recruited if Tubby is Recruiter.

I find that Plum was wanting to not pressure Battlemage becuase of Tubby most interesting now though considering tubby is likely not really a hider.

I didn't "want not to pressure Battle Mage"; I wanted you to clarify why you were voting someone who the Hider claimed to have targeted without addressing the issue at all. Otherwise I did happen to have better things to do with my vote, namely Milkshake and Dram.

Tomorrow you swing, k?

[Plum]

Time to claim some flava.

I'm the Elder, one of a pair of Twins. I share the ability to speak telepathically with my brother, the Younger (Vaya). He's resented me since we were born. Unlike him (he's a low-level delinquent type, and I'm sad about the choices he's made and we haven't spoken in a good while) I've worked hard to become part of the city brigade which guards the Giver. This morning, flavor says,

I was given an unsigned note

which told me about the whole deal with my brother being in a holding cell about to be shipped off to a work camp. I consulted with my guard-partner and decided to go for a very few minutes to see my brother. While going to the Inner City, the alarm was raised and the gates sealed - my guard-partner and the Giver are dead (it seems implied that I'm the other of the "trusted Guards" mentioned in the opening flavor). Now I need to do my duty to the Council and the City - and maybe try to turn my brother around. But I wonder who gave me the note (so I don't know who it was, obv) and reminded that I don't know my brother's true allegiance.

So: That's the big reason why both Vaya and backed SB as likely Town Day 1 - her story about being Millerized by passing along a note made sense, and even more sense when KK flipped "The Scribe". She gave me the note, almost certainly, and it was probably given to her by the guy whose power seems to have been to send notes. Hah.

Everything Vaya has said in this thread lines up with the claim he made in our QT when we did that very early in our conversations. I'd bet he's Town, though it's possible he's not.

[Plum]

Well, claim it please. Nu?

[Plum]

Did you change any apples yet?

[Plum]

So, I'm assuming the extent of your abilities (at the wonder twins) is the shared rolecop. (as neither of you mentioned anything about that in your claims).

Yeah, plus anytime neighbor goodness.

[Plum]

So, I'm assuming the extent of your abilities (at the wonder twins) is the shared rolecop. (as neither of you mentioned anything about that in your claims).

Yep, we can day and night talk, and have the shared namecop. My flavor doesn't seem to mention how I can investigate people, I guess it comes with my telepathic powers I was born with that allows me to speak with my brother.

Same here.

@SpyreX: You're welcome.

[Plum]

One would hope Culties drink the Cool-aid if their leader goes down. But BM is very likely recruit if Tubby is leader.

[Plum]

I will join SpyreX for a hat barbeque if tubby flips "The Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny." Everyone's invited.

Better ready your sauce, because he will, regardless of alignment.

For the record, I would have voted this lynch had we not been waiting on the Battle Mage claim &c.

[Plum]

I am merely proud of my flavor parsing this game (except for the assumption I had since before the game began that the Influencer was some sort of scum). Also I did manage to push a name-Cop on the scum; should have realized that the hesitation to name-claim was a bigger tell than I said it was.

Good game, y'all.