Newbie 113 - Game Over

[LoudmouthLee]

/confirm... This is ground control to major Tom..

[LoudmouthLee]

MIRC lingo. In order to be in a game in mirc (since all comands normally have a slash), it was /in.

[LoudmouthLee]

Random Vote: Senor Flay

I wouldnt give him any more info than any other cop! (Direct quote from the last game we were in together)

[LoudmouthLee]

FoS: Kain

Normally, a second vote in a gsme this tiny is bad news.. why did you cast that vote like that?

[LoudmouthLee]

Sorry I havent been around. Been very busy lately.

I'm not quite sure of the "charges" against me. Was there someone else with 2 votes at that time? If so, I just missed it, and I apologize. Otherwise, I just haven't been around too much lately. I hope that's not why I have a zillion FOSes

[LoudmouthLee]

Everyone has a biased opinion of me as scummy. It's part of my persona You love me for it, Flay.

I just reread the thread, and I apologize for missing the double vote earlier. I was not paying much attention. I'm a good natured guy, and I always remember that this is still a game.

As for scumminess and the such, I'm going to give minor (note the term, minor)

FoS: Flay and Stam

You both seem to be on the FoS train right now. IMHO, it seems taht you guys have nearly FOSed everyone so far, so, as of right now, my vote is staying on Flay.

It seems to be rather funny, Flay, because of this...

LoudmouthLee, any particular reason you don't want us to get to a 2nd vote on anyone just yet? Right now, I'm probably most suspicious of yourself and Tamuz. Kain seems to just be a newbie with a lot of thoughts, as does EnterYourNameHere...

I just feel that it is very difficult, for a game such as a newbie game, to be piling on votes is a bad idea. More discussion, less second voting.

As for missing on of the double voters... there isn't much I can say. But, let's not forget Occam's razor, people...

The simplest answer is the best. I missed it with a quick skim of random votes. However, my vote was ALREADY on Flay, and that would be a competent reason on why it didnt quite matter whether I made notice to flay or not.

I hope this answers many questions.

[LoudmouthLee]

Everyone has a biased opinion of me as scummy. It's part of my persona You love me for it, Flay.

I just reread the thread, and I apologize for missing the double vote earlier. I was not paying much attention. I'm a good natured guy, and I always remember that this is still a game.

As for scumminess and the such, I'm going to give minor (note the term, minor)

FoS: Flay and Stam

You both seem to be on the FoS train right now. IMHO, it seems taht you guys have nearly FOSed everyone so far, so, as of right now, my vote is staying on Flay.

It seems to be rather funny, Flay, because of this...

LoudmouthLee, any particular reason you don't want us to get to a 2nd vote on anyone just yet? Right now, I'm probably most suspicious of yourself and Tamuz. Kain seems to just be a newbie with a lot of thoughts, as does EnterYourNameHere...

I just feel that it is very difficult, for a game such as a newbie game, to be piling on votes is a bad idea. More discussion, less second voting.

As for missing on of the double voters... there isn't much I can say. But, let's not forget Occam's razor, people...

The simplest answer is the best. I missed it with a quick skim of random votes. However, my vote was ALREADY on Flay, and that would be a competent reason on why it didnt quite matter whether I made notice to flay or not.

I hope this answers many questions.

[LoudmouthLee]

Everything?

First, Stam:

WOW!
There is only one thing to say:


unvote: Tamuz
Vote: LoudmouthLee

Your post is awful. Sheep.

Next, to answer more articulate things:

Please elaborate on what's "funny" about that comment (and I assume you don't mean ha-ha). I don't happen to feel that second votes are as dangerous in newbie games as people think they are, partially because games move much slower here than (say) GL.

Yeah, in a game like this, putting a second vote on someone is dangerous BECAUSE of the fast moving of teh games here.

Next point:

I'd be ready to accept that if my vote hadn't been RIGHT before your FOS in the thread. Post 24 was the last thing on Page 1, and your FOS was Post 25, an hour later.

My post was at 2:45AM (much like this one) and I normally get up for work early. (I'm a HS teacher). It was a moment of stupidity. Please, Flay, don't lynch for an honest mistake.

Do you REALLY think I'd make a mistake like THAT? I'd be much more careful if I were scum.

And finally, one thing I am guilty of...

Yes, but which is it? You can't have it both ways; either you missed it, or you felt it was already covered. I think you're manufacturing reasons after the fact.

Yeah, when everyone and their mother has an FoS pointed at you, you'd be feeling the same way, trying to locate the exact way to make sure everyone understands you. I should have said that it didnt matter anyway. However, I'll take my lumps for that.

It would, on the other hand, be awfully silly to lynch me for a small mistake.

Take your pick.

[LoudmouthLee]

Sorry, busy w/ real life.

Do you REALLY think I'd make a mistake like THAT? I'd be much more careful if I were scum.

These statements rub me the wrong way. Most of the time, people that use that defense are scum. Since LML is posting late (not sure if it was in that post or not), he is more prone to make mistakes. So, by saying he'd be more careful as scum, I don't really buy it. I'd post the same time as if he was town. Do I think you'd make a mistake like that? Yes. I think you got caught.

unvote: Kain. vote: LML

. This is the 3rd vote btw.

I offered my reason. I know it's no excuse, but RL has been relatively hectic for me recently. I have only been able to posty late, and made a mistake. Lynch me for it if you want to.

By the way, just so YOU know... I made this same comment in Theme Park - Talk Show Host Mafia. Guess what? I was pro-town there too. Bah. I have some time, so if you don't want to dredge through the posts, I'll do it for you.

[LoudmouthLee]

Hemm... LML missed a chance to kill Kain, maybe he was too busy... but he didn't take such an opportunity (as did flay and Big_k). I'm not saying they should have, I'm just saying we should keep that in mind if any of the aforementioned/Kain turn out being Mafioso.

Kain, I placed a second vote on you, not a third one... rethink a little bit. And I hate, hate, hate retaliatory attacks. Period. #1 newbie mafia tactic, attack who is attacking you. Not defend and move.

Just because I thought Stam was feeling bad, doesn't mean I can't also look at others... I mean if we lynched people switching views Flay should be 6 feet under, multiple times.
I have nothing against you questioning his action, it was weak.However, I didn't like it, simple...eh? So I chose to vote for you and see what happened, and as you see... we have a reaction, even though Stam chose to force your hand a little more than I wished, but it works; we *are* getting new info, aren't we?-- no more stagnating pool.

Oh, and

unvote

even though the 3 who could kill kain have bypassed such a chance

So, you'd rather me vote someone who I'm not quite sure is scum yet?

I'm just reading posts and generating ideas. 2 of you have really seemed scummy to me. And, neither of them are currently flay. So,

Unvote Flay and FoS: Tamuz and Stam

[LoudmouthLee]

Oh wait... he claimed townie?

Bah, Kain. I was all set to defend you.

[LoudmouthLee]

Well, I didn't he was mafia. I will, however,

Vote: Kain

now.

I have no problem lynching him. I just didn't fing HIM to be particularly scummy. I have already told you who I believe is scum..

I'll tell you right now. I'm not mafia. I don't think Kain is mafia. I think that Stam's acting VERY scummy. But, the bandwagon is squarely on me. That's fine.

I was set to defend Kain because I though (with the way he was posting) that he had a power role. I didn't see that he calimed townie until after I made my first post.

I'm also NOT planning on claiming (unless I'm told different by the town). I'd rather keep my role a secret. You can look at that any way you want.

Regardless, I'll vote for Kain if you think he's the right lynch.

I'm going on record to say... I don't think he is.

[LoudmouthLee]

Actually, mafia are perfectly willing to join on a lynch for their scumbuddy, provided it looks like there is no other way out. It provides them a defense the next day when they can say "look, see, I voted for the scum!"

LML, I don't understand you. If you're 'claiming' an ambiguous power role, you're gonna be targeted by the mafia, right? And if you're claiming something you're not...well, I leave that as an exercise for the reader.

I'm still not sure if Kain is a frustrated townie or a panicked scum, but I'm 75% willing to switch to him now. However, that may partially be because I'm going out of town and don't want to see the game stall. I'll probably vote Kain in the morning if no one has any further burning questions...

Flay, I'm doing this for a reason. Mafia 101. I may have a power role. I may be a townie trying to get the mafia to waste a kill on me. Keep 'em guessing.

As for Kain, I

STILL

don't think your scum (although, you are pressing my buttons ) It makes sense, in my case, to vote for you. To be honest, I feel like I know who the two scum are, and I've verbalized that in the thread. However, I need to realize that the day becomes stagnant and long after a while. My scumdar is good, but by no means is it perfect. You could easily be scum, and it's VERY easy for scum to claim townie. I assumed you had a power role (by certain little idiosyncratic things in your posts), and you may *still* have a power role, even if it's scum.

My vote for you is based not on you, but on the other players. They all seem relatively sure your scum. I'm still unsure. The majority of you seem to continue to think I'm in everyone's scum pair. I repeat myself (and, by that, being rendundant) as someone pointed out because, in a Newbie game, it's VERY difficult to differentiate who's scum and who isn't.

The majority of the FOSes on me are based on the fact that either...

1) I didn't lynch Kain

Answer: I don't think (and STILL DON'T THINK), he's mafia. But I've been wrong before, so I'm willing to go against my better judgement.

or 2) I FOSed only one person when there are 2 double voters at the beginning.

Answer: I explained this. I messed up. Sorry. You all wanna lynch me for it? You can. It's a mistake.

I hereby ask the cop (being that there is one out there), to investigate me tomorrow. If that doesn't prove my innocence, I don't know WHAT will.

[LoudmouthLee]

Kain, I'm still trying to see what your argument is in favor of your pro-town nature. You keep telling us to go reread, but what specifically do you think points up your innocence? Maybe I'm just having a hard time following you...

I'm not going to vote you "just to get the day done", I was merely saying that my gut tells me either you or LML right now, and the longer you sit at 3, the more statistics bear me out. So I'll wait, for now, and see what happens.

Lee: I don't know what voting for Kain under duress does for you, except a) give you an alibi when/if he comes up townie, or b) give you an alibi when/if he comes up scum. The point remains that you only did it when people started commenting on it, which is a *crappy* way to play the game (letting other people dictate your actions). I know you're better than that...

By the way, the last time I asked the cop to investigate me, I was scum...just FYI.

Flay, I did it to *prove* a point.

The town, currently, is willing to lynch me NO matter the action I choose. I could be Mother Theresa and you (collective town) would find something wrong with the way I helped the homeless.

Honestly, I feel that the scum in this game right now is overvocal players. I believe, currently, that everyone is seeing something in Kain that I

didn't

. Now I do... and it was in the last post.

Kain, here it goes.

I went and ANSWERED every question you had in your previous post. Did you just NOT READ my post? You consistently tell everyone to read, when you, yourself, are not. So.. I'll just quote what I wrote for you. Maybe, next time, you'll read.

As for Kain, I STILL don't think your scum (although, you are pressing my buttons ) It makes sense, in my case, to vote for you. To be honest, I feel like I know who the two scum are, and I've verbalized that in the thread. However, I need to realize that the day becomes stagnant and long after a while. My scumdar is good, but by no means is it perfect. You could easily be scum, and it's VERY easy for scum to claim townie. I assumed you had a power role (by certain little idiosyncratic things in your posts), and you may *still* have a power role, even if it's scum.

My vote for you is based not on you, but on the other players. They all seem relatively sure your scum. I'm still unsure. The majority of you seem to continue to think I'm in everyone's scum pair. I repeat myself (and, by that, being rendundant) as someone pointed out because, in a Newbie game, it's VERY difficult to differentiate who's scum and who isn't.

The majority of the FOSes on me are based on the fact that either...

1) I didn't lynch Kain

Answer: I don't think (and STILL DON'T THINK), he's mafia. But I've been wrong before, so I'm willing to go against my better judgement.

or 2) I FOSed only one person when there are 2 double voters at the beginning.

Answer: I explained this. I messed up. Sorry. You all wanna lynch me for it? You can. It's a mistake.

I hereby ask the cop (being that there is one out there), to investigate me tomorrow. If that doesn't prove my innocence, I don't know WHAT will.

I hope that reansweres your questions (which were....)

Point A1: LML claims he is not scum. This seems wierd to me because isn't it obvious that we all are claiming to not be scum without verbalizing it?

PointA2: It doesn't make sense to vote for someone who you don't think is mafia even if alot of the town thinks that he/she is. If you stoop down to that level then you are settling for mediocrity and helping the mafia win. I am sure that the mafia is rejoicing that one suppossed townie(LML) has adopted the attitude of " well I don't think he is mafia but I am going to vote to lynch him because it seems everyone else is." The town needs to kill mafia to win, not townies-so to you LML I say your action is not very good in the intrests of the town at all.

With that, you're just looking to move the heat off of you and onto me.

I feel like you're more and more scummy now.

[LoudmouthLee]

Sorry I haven't been contributing much to this game.
I like my vote on LML and think he and EYNH make the best pairing of scum w/ the reasons metioned already and since they didn't touch each other w/ a ten foot pole early in the day, kinda avoiding each other.

Big_K, I expect more out of you. Please read my most recent posts.

[LoudmouthLee]

Aye, Big_k I haven't forgot their dissapearance, I even note that in my last post.

However, Kain's actions under pressure and his "coincidental" appearance/dissapearance bug me.

Maybe my newbieness is showing through, but I'd like to get moving. We are on *day1* and our thread is longer than most *finished* newbies.

Unvote: Kain
Vote: LoudMouthLee

2's here I believe

By the way, you should be HAPPY. Most newbie games are not nearly this active.

I'm going to STAND BY MY THOUGHT that, IMHO, Stam and Tam are the Mafia. However, since no one trusts me, and I'm damned with any play I make, my vote is going to stay.

I have given sufficient reasons to why both have been acting scummy. No one even listens.

Bah.

[LoudmouthLee]

big K, I'm going to set up a scenario for you.

I'm pro-town, under suspicion.

I have a chance to vote Kain. I didn't, mainly because i didn't think he was scum. I had a chance to send it into night, and, well, I didn't.

Then, I choose to vote him (since my no vote was suspicious) and what do I get? More suspicions.

[LoudmouthLee]

Hey hey! My internet died teh last few days, and Time Warner just came to fix it!

Let me check what's going on.

[LoudmouthLee]

I just wasn't paying that much attention to the game. *shrug* I should have clarified earlier. I spoke in twilight because I felt like I should have said something. I understand that the suspicion on me is warranted.

Clasically, defined as lurking. My internet acess dies for a few days, I get prodded. EYNH is gone for a long time day one? He floats by?

1st and foremost -

FoS: Stam and EYNH

- Stam for forcing the stilly prod, and EYNH for being blatantly scumtastic. Here we are.

By the way, just as an off comment - If there are ANY TWO people on the site that could totally go at each other's throats and be scum together, it's Flay and I.

But, I want you, again, to look very closely at the people up against me. It's LYNCH AND LOSE right now.

Right now, I'm pretty sure that Flay is innocent. Call it a hunch.

[LoudmouthLee]

Flay I don't think your that innocent, I just can't see you as guilty

And no Stam, I'm not a cop, I probably would have investigated Flay if I was the cop since I can't rea him unlike our pair of lurkers and yourself.

Lurker? You have GOT to be kidding me.

[LoudmouthLee]

You call me a lurker, Tamuz, when I have 5 posts less than you. That, including the fact that I didn't post during twilight (call it a bad experience with me being modkilled in a past game)

The last few days, as I said, my internet has died. I'm going to

FoS: Tamuz

for now. But, you had tripped my scumdar a while ago, and possibly even moreso now.

[LoudmouthLee]

Seriously... what's with the gangup? It hasnt stopped. I'll sit back and wait for flay.

[LoudmouthLee]

I will be responding to this in great length later tonight, Flay. I remember a post in particular that could prove someone scum, and posture us for at least a 66% chance tomorrow. But, duty calls. I'll bbl.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay... here it is. Roleclaim for me, followed by some mild speculation... All of which is plausable. I am going to bold part of what I say here, basically because it's a NECESSARY READ for everyone.

It's obvious that I was a townie trying to hint at a power role. I was trying to draw mafia fire, but i would be a very silly kill... being that going into today, I was the likely lynch target.

We're all forgetting something of importance, and I NEED you all to realize this...

WE MAY ALL BE LED TO OUR GRAVE BY THE SCUM!

Here's how -

According to Maximus's opening post (which is no longer there.. I'm hoping you all remember.), there are a few possibilities for the game layout. There are only 2 left right now.

#1 - Doc, Cop, Townies, Scum
#2 - Doc, Townies, Scum

What I'm getting at is that I am currently speculating that Flay.. an amazing player, tried a blind gambit, and it is currently working.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, FLAY HAS AN INNOCENT RESULT, NOT A GUILTY RESULT. BY TAKING FLAY'S CLAIM AT FACE VALUE, IN A LYNCH AND LOSE SITUATION, WE COULD BE BEING LED TO A QUICK LYNCH AND A LOSS FOR THE TOWN!

In layman's terms...

Flay came out with NO pressure on him (scummy trait?) and claimed cop and BEGGED anyone to counterclaim him (another scummy trait). He then takes the "scummiest" player of day 1, EYNH, and proclaims him INNOCENT.

Flay took a blind gambit there... He claimed first, so he obviously looks less scummy if another person comes out and claims cop as well. Since no one has counterclaimed, it's a

POSSIBILITY

that Flay and EYNH ARE THE SCUM and you are all being led by them.

I am NOT saying that it's a definite, but think about it.

The quote that upset me the most and is leading to the

FoS: Flay

is this...

EnterYourNameHere, we need you! Now that you're proven innocent, I've got to listen to you, and only hope you make more logical sense today than yesterday....

I will repeat this for Tamuz and Stam... he is NOT PROVEN INNOCENT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

[LoudmouthLee]

Just some more quotes that REALLY don't sit well with me:

All from the SAME FLAY post:

I'll die tonight for sure, obviously, so that won't tell us anything.

What if you were scum?

Was at 3 votes on 5/22, from Mr. Flay, Stam, and big_kahunia. Two of those are proven pro-town now

Who are the two PROVEN PROTOWN?

Flay, you're using bad logic here... you're making assumptions that we, as townies, CANNOT make.

I'm really getting worried about a Flay/EYNH pair.

[LoudmouthLee]

Tamuz, sorry for my poor math skills...

I'm an ENGLISH teacher

[LoudmouthLee]

Mr. Linguist...

Define the word "proven".

[LoudmouthLee]

Big_k was proven as per his death scene
Flay, as I said called himself proven, just as I know I'm townie by my own PM from Maximus

Proven is a loaded word, especially in this context.

Big_K is proven, in death. Proven is not to oneself, but to the town. As of right now, Flay is not proven to the town, and he keeps on posting like he is.

Frankly, it scares me.

[LoudmouthLee]

(sigh) Lynch and lose.

Just a reminder.

[LoudmouthLee]

JUMP! JUMP!

[LoudmouthLee]

FLAY UNVOTE!

[LoudmouthLee]

FLAY, GET HERE BEFORE TAMUZ DOES!

Stam jumped! Look at him! He jumped!

Vote: Stam

Don't be a fool, Flay!

[LoudmouthLee]

This (should) be a relatively simple day.

EYNH is cleared by Flay's death.

Vote: Tamuz

Logically speaking, we're lucky the game has gone on this far. If Tamuz got online before Mr. Flay unvoted, we wouldn't even be having a third day. Let's keep it on the right track by lynching our final scum.

I can go back through the thread if you need forther proof, EYNH. I'll be happy to facilitate you by answering and questions you may have.

I do implore you, EYNH, we have a very REAL chance of winning this game. I saw our chances of winning pass in front of my eyes when Stam hopped on.

I'm sure that Tamuz is going to try to concoct a case against me. Let Tamuz speak, but take everying he says with a grain of salt. We got mafia yesterday because Stam made a jump, and Tamuz wasn't around.

Let's win this game.

[LoudmouthLee]

(hugs EYNH)

During the warm embrace, LML pulls out a long knife and stabs EYNH in the back.



First and foremost... what a great game. You all deserved to win. I was very lucky to have a wonderful scum partner in Stam. He has come a long way, and took my sacrafice of him with a grain of salt. He knew that with the play we made yesterday, we positioned ourselves to win. It was a marvelous day.

Flay, you again proved to me exactly why I hate being mafia and not seeing your name on the list. I, however, needed to use your experience to my advantage, and that's where Stam came in.

Stam was the MVP of the scum team. Prior to day one, I told Stam to attack me in full force, which he definately did. (Wow... you were crazy), and it let to a major problem with the town figuring out who was indeed scum.

Big_K played his typical solid game (I thought he was the cop, though), EYNH, your play was NOT poor, you just need to get your head back in the game and keep up with it a bit more.

Tamuz, your play has continually gotten better. I hope you keep with it, and enjoy mafia. Kain, your play improved remarkably from sunrise to sunset of day one. Keep it up, soon people will be afraid of you.

Thank you, Nanook, for taking the time out of your busy life to help us complete this game, which was one for the ages.

GO SCUM!

[LoudmouthLee]

As of right now, I'm alive

[LoudmouthLee]

Well done, Lee...you've obviously got more brass balls than I thought.

That's going in the signature.

[LoudmouthLee]

Tamuz - WIFOM stands for Wine In Front Of Me. This means that information comes from someone who is clearly doen't want to give you correct information. For example, I could say, right before I was lynched something like "Tamuz, good luck tomorrow, GO SCUM!". Then EYNH would think, "he said Tamuz is his partner, but he is a scum, so probably he is lying and LML is his partner, but maybe he

wants

me to think that, so Tamuz is his partner..." etc.
This is confusing, and the best approach is to just ignore something like that. I decided not to play such a game because it looked like things were fine as they were.
What you did saying that you have no power role was also WIFOM, but in the other direction - from a townie addressed at the mafia (but it could confuse the doctor as well).

Mr. Flay - I recall you said something about "calling my bluff" when I threatened LML, what did you mean by that?

Also - See The Princess Bride.

Thank you.