/in-vitational 2 - Chosen, Karaoke - Game over! before 830

[Sajin]

I may or may not be a chosen.

I think the setup is breakable by mass claiming though. I would like your thoughts on the matter.

Assuming all town say the truth- There will be 2 chosen claims of 7. Scum will either

A) not claim chosen- impossible for them to win
B) Both claim chosen- 9 townies and 4 possibilities for scum=town auto victory.
C) 1 claim chosen and 1 not claim chosen- we get a 1/3 chance to auto win and a decent chance after that. I would have to do the math on it. But I think it is better than trying to play this normally.

[Sajin]

Way to vote me without commenting on my post. Explain why you think it is a trap then.

[Sajin]

Q1- I think this is night kill preferencing. Trying to find out our reactions to a lurker non participant is scummy.

Q2- This is rolefishing. NO ONE should answer this.

Q3- I already answered. I would like you to answer back.

[Sajin]

Sajin: You're obviously not aware that the chosen do not know they are chosen as such, which means you didn't get a town PM.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

I like where troll is going with this.

Where is this in the rules?

I sent a question to the mod.

[Sajin]

I got the role PM before I possibly got another PM saying I was chosen.

The fact that you did not get such a PM says to me your not chosen and a safe lynch.

vote hohum

[Sajin]

Hohum I have never even heard of this type of setup before. Nothing in the rules indicates I am wrong. Your not Chosen from my perspective because you claimed you did not get a chosen PM. Therefore your vanilla or scum.

[Sajin]

Incognito just told me that chosen do not know they are chosen but scum do. I thought the chosen knew. There goes my mass claim idea.

Thanks for the rules update. Appreciated.

I am willing to be the lynch but now instead of knowing I am not the chosen, I could be one. That sucks.

[Sajin]

I see why you think I was scum. Because I thought people would be able to claim chosen. But that does not indicate confused scum, or confused townie but just confused. Hohum was willing to take advantage of the confusion though. I like my vote.

My odds of being chosen are 2/7.

[Sajin]

Also, the only way to pursue the scum is to keep lynching. No lynching is bad.

If we ever hit a chosen we need to lynch every day. (besides some scenarios like 4 up 1 scum etc etc)

If we no lynched before we lynched a chosen we put ourselves at disadvantage.

Therefore NLing before we get close to endgame can only disadvantage us.

[Sajin]

OMGUS would be me voting troll, he was the first voter. I was confused I agree.


I assumed I was NOT told when I got my PM and that I was told in the duration of the mods 5th post when he stated chosen have now been selected.

I read my PMs carefully. I understood I could be chosen and did not know at the time I was sent the PM. I did not understand that I would never know.

[Sajin]

Don't think that papa zito. I would of done the same thing as scum. All it proves is that I was confused at one point. That said I appreciate the unvote.

[Sajin]

Define what you think is OMGUS then.

To me thats voting with no other reason other than you voted me.

I have reason. My accusation is that you were taking advantage of my confusion.

[Sajin]

If we no lynched before we lynched a chosen we put ourselves at disadvantage.

Heh. Thats a slightly good point. Something I didn't think about at least. However it is still leaning a bit towards the black and white mindset I think. You are suggesting that we should be afraid of that scenario enough to completely ignore one of the town's win conditions?

Could you explain why you think this?

Well I say we try to lynch scum. Failing that we have a failsafe.

I could show it by math but I am lazy. That and this thread moves FAST.

[Sajin]

Define what you think is OMGUS then.

To me thats voting with no other reason other than you voted me.

I have reason. My accusation is that you were taking advantage of my confusion.

That's a lame-ass reason for a vote. Of course I'm going to take advantage of your scumslip. Who wouldn't?

Town.

/confirm vote.

[Sajin]

If we no lynched before we lynched a chosen we put ourselves at disadvantage.

Heh. Thats a slightly good point. Something I didn't think about at least. However it is still leaning a bit towards the black and white mindset I think. You are suggesting that we should be afraid of that scenario enough to completely ignore one of the town's win conditions?

Could you explain why you think this?

Well I say we try to lynch scum. Failing that we have a failsafe.

I could show it by math but I am lazy. That and this thread moves FAST.

Alright this is kind of simplistist but lets say we are trying to win just 1 way in each example:

1: We try to lynch scum. They kill each night (worst case scenario for us, in this example). 9 players means we lynch at 9 7 5 and 3 players. 4 lynches to catch 2 of 9.

2: We try to save chosen. From a purely mathmatical standpoint we have to avoid lynching 2 people of 7 (scum are indifferent when it comes to these odds). This means that scum playing to make this harderest on us would not kill and we would have to lynch correctly 5 times of the 5.

So looking at the individual objectives: It is easier to win the standard way by trying to lynch scum. But, now lets say we played to win condition 1 for 1 night and we lynched a townie non chosen and a townie non chosen was killed. We have decided to reevaluate our chances and strategies.

1 Lynch scum: 7 players 3 lynches to catch 2 of 7.

2: Lynch non chosen: 7 players, need to lynch 3 times correctly of 3.

This is still in favor of trying to lynch scum over non chosen. So we go for the scum lynch, fail...but now scum have a choice. They can no kill or kill (they could earlier as well but this is the best practical point feel free to do math on others).


1a Lynch scum/scum killed someone: 5 players, 2 lynches to catch 2/5. 40 of 33 percent=2/5*1/3 = 2/15 odds.

1b Lynch scum/scum no killed: 6 players 2 lynches to catch 2/6 then 1/4
2/6*1/4 = 1/12 odds

2a Lynch non chosen/ 1 of 3 1 time. 1/3 odds

2b lynch non chosen scum no killed- 2/4 2 times 2/4 then 1/3 or 1/6 odds.

[Sajin]

Failure for preview. Anyways. My point was that pursuing the best math odds strategy (and I am well aware that reads increase these odds, but base math odds are a great starting point as its likely to be somewhat equally increased to account for reads).

The best math strategy is try to string up the scum until 2 failed lynches that were on non chosen. After that odds tilt to close enough to even to warrant pursuing the alternate win condition.

If we ever lynch a scum its easier to try and lynch the other scum then it is to try to lynch the non chosen and only evens out in a 1 scum 2 chosen 1 non chosen scenario.

Any questions or problems on the math feel free to ask.

[Sajin]

If the game is completed its linkable and able to be referenced.

[Sajin]

So qwints wants to vote me based on a read then proposes a "random" lynch. Contradictory much?

Re-reading, I realized that Sajin's original mass claim proposal suggested that all townies tell the truth. This suggests that townie-Sajin would never false-claim. It does make me wonder why he did not explicitly claim VT instead of leaving it hanging if what he believed were true.

Sajin - why didn't you claim in your initial post if you believed you had a forced town-win?

Why would I claim something in my initial post that would hurt us unless we all went through with the plan? Also, this is a strawman argument at best and misrepresentation at worst. Your setting up the statement of forced-town win to explain why I did not act a certain way.


@Scien can you comment about my math?

[Sajin]

Fully random lynching is not a good option

because lynching one chosen hurts us much more than lynching one scum helps us

. But in limited situations, such as a D3 w/ both chosen still alive and 1 scum dead, it could prove useful.

No. Nailing one scum is worth more than not nailing chosen (vanilla town lynch).

[Sajin]

Then why are you and the person you requested prodding on coming off the most scummy?

[Sajin]

You attempted to tear down the wagon (which existed) a couple of pages back. It's impolite at best and anti-town at worst to tear a wagon down before any useful information can be garnered out of it.

The fact of the matter is Sajin was doing a pretty good job of dropping other scum tells (which is the reason I'm tunneling on him) until you interceded on his behalf. You mooted any pressure that was on him by bitching about our votes on him. Frankly I don't care how scummy you think I am, because the feeling is mutual.

I have yet to see your case. Way to change the subject.

[Sajin]

Hohum- What is the definition of strongarming? Thanks.

[Sajin]

Strong-arm tactics involve taking a certain point of view or stance (In this case- your belief I am scum) and then attacking all the people that do not agree with your viewpoint in an effort to coerce them to your point of view.

Do you agree this is what your doing?

[Sajin]

Answer the question directly then.

[Sajin]

No, you agree your strong arming and then premptively say its not scummy.

[Sajin]

Strong-arm tactics involve taking a certain point of view or stance (In this case- your belief I am scum) and then attacking all the people that do not agree with your viewpoint in an effort to coerce them to your point of view.

Do you agree this is what your doing?

Not agreeing with me is one thing. Actively defending you is another. I'm attacking those (rightfully) who take the viewpoint that I am scum because I think you are scum. Those who line up against me SHOULD be suspect.

I wasn't defending him....

And why do you think he's referring to you at all? I'm attacking you for a different reason.

When did I refer to ANYONE defending? That was all you sir.

[Sajin]

Following all the points you made in the above quote pyramid would mean your implying he was defending me. Feel free to correct that, instead of making vague statements of what you did NOT do. Tell me what you DID do.

Swearing does not make your arguments any more convincing, a tip for your text game as scum.


Regardless, Hohum: Given the setup do you agree scum have a strong motivation to strong-arm (no pun intended...maybe)?

[Sajin]

sajin is so obvscum it hurts.

I am still waiting on your case. Or even a supporting point.

[Sajin]

Avatar changes make me dizzy.

Sorry. I do sort of miss pooh but I need to use this one for at least a week, then I'm likely going to switch back.

The whole sajin situation

In sajin's very first post he's pushing for a mass claim. There are no power roles alive (other than the chosen) in this setup so claiming at any point serves only to generate useless banter.

Yet you voted for me on it and have not removed your vote since. Yet you claim it generated useless banter. Are you calling your own remarks on this topic "useless banter"? If not, what useless banter did it generate?

The fact that he was unaware that the chosen in fact does not know as such indicates that may not have received a townie role PM. I still contest that this is more of a scum tell than everyone seems to think it is and it was worth discussing. Certainly any scum tell (no matter how minor) on page one is worthy of a vote.

So you state its a fact I did not know chosen recieved a PM. Thats different from what you said before.

He then responded (post 19) eventually with an OMGUS under guise of supporting the idea of a random lynch.

When did I ever say it was random? BLATANT Misrep

He even later stated that he can see how his early posts could be interpreted as a scum tell (post 41) but attempts to reason that latching on to early scum tells is in of itself a scum tell (post 41, my response in 61, his in 62). The notion that I dare question him over a possible scum slip is anti-scum hunting (quite a large scum tell) at best, and downright ludicrous at worst.

Fair point. How is questioning something anti scumhunting though? Am I not allowed to question the posts of the infalible hohum?

He would also rather argue semantics over the definition of the term OMGUS than acknowledge he's being super over-defensive (48, 57, ).

WIFOM and a little bit of scum gaming in 50.

Quotes please. Your the one that brought OMGUS to the table. You have a meta of doing this as scum and town though.

At this point his activity level drops off of a cliff before he reappears in the thread in order to go on a strawman rampage.

Feel free to point out any strawman arguements I have made. You just state I am strawmanning and WIFOMing without pointing out when it happened. This is why I asked for a case. Empty accusations. Also, I would love to see anyone else willing to go along with the I am lurking implication. Does anyone think I am lurking besides Hohum?

General observations about his behavior:

1) He'd rather lynch randomly than do any scum hunting whatsoever I called him on this early on and he completely failed to even acknowledge that fact.

Again, why the random? I have pointed out legitimately scummy activites you have done and have essentially admitted to.

2) He continually distorts qwints' and my own (and everyone else's) positions on various matters.

More defense of qwints! Feel free to quote and explain how I distorted a position. Thats suppossed to be in your case you know. In fact I think you have distorted my own position numerous times in this very post.

3) He talks about game mechanics from time to time in order to appear helpful but hasn't really made any effort to do any real scum hunting of his own.

Because questioning you is not scum hunting? Mechanics are important but to say I have been excluding scum hunting is ludicrous

4) Virtually every other response to me since about page 4 has been "I don't see your case, you're full of shit" even though I have sitting here discussing it with him and others since, oh, page 1 or so. [/area]

I haven't decided who is likely sajin's scum partner but right now PZ and MM are my top suspects.

Your posts have been "Sajin is obv scum, lynch :Repeat" since page 1 or so. I would not call that a response to anything nor discussion.

As a separate point- How is calling someone likely town a scum tell? I see the motivation for scum to do it, but it makes just as much sense for town to do it.

[Sajin]

Hey qwints, what do you think of hohum?

[Sajin]

Yay questions for me.

1) Explain why you stated analyzing voting patterns was vital, then questioned why someone thought people not voting was bad.

2) What do you think of the hohum-Sajin argument? Who's misrepresenting whom?

3) Do you think MM's process of elimination style is a valid tactic?

1. I find cautious voting to be as important as analyzing votes, scum can day talk, dont misstepp into a quick lynch on a choosen.

2. Sajins idea of a mass claim and the argument that insues makes me feel sajin is acttualy makeing the mistake, what i gather from it is that he recived a pm telling him who the choosen were, and as a result assumed the choosen got one too. But at the same time it could be a misread but i also belive that hohums argument and adhomen are almost like panick at being cought, i will have to remain netural on both sides for now.

3.I dont get how it could work for him, only scum could gaurantee town, and valid town claims usualy mean said roll is dead.

Hohum may have done many things, but adhom is not one of them.

Don't fence sit. If you believe I got a PM stating who the chosen were then it follows I MUST be scum regardless of what hohum posted. Don't just rehash the possibilities of the arguments from the last few pages. In fact all 3 of your answers here are rehashing content from the last few days.

[Sajin]

*looks at post above*

I am working on it troll!

[Sajin]

@hohum- Respond to any of my points please.

[Sajin]

I have over and over again. You're either misinterpreting or blatantly misrepresenting (again) what I was saying. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you because you're wrong.

I think I adequately responded to everything you said. If you think I am misrepping feel free to point it out.

If you think I am wrong that should give you MORE cause to argue, not less.

[Sajin]

@Troll- Why are you so fixated on not lynching the chosen over lynching scum? Can you comment on my math from a few pages back on this subject please?

[Sajin]

Well I respectfully disagree. I think going after scum is better than trying to not lynch chosen. How can I be sure that scum did not save a push on one of the chosen for such a viewpoint? I think my math shows how weak pursuing the chosen win condition(as opposed to the lynch scum win condition) is in its exclusivity. At least while so many non chosen are alive.

In short I cannot support one of your votes based on that viewpoint as I think thats not the best way for town to win. Your going to have to convince me that your wagon is the scummiest. Not just the least likely to be chosen. Or show my math wrong.

[Sajin]

I am ignoring the less likely one and pursuing the more likely win condition in my opinion.

Easier and harder does not translate well for me.

[Sajin]

Did you read the math at all?

[Sajin]

Equal chances. But the advantages of lynching a scum outweigh the hazards of lynching a chosen.

[Sajin]

Really, the issue that Troll be defending here (for reasons which Troll no understands as Troll would think that it be obvious and not need defense) be that not lynching a chosen and lynching scum no be mutually exclusive and the scum's ideal play has nothing to do with the town having to pick one win condition or the other to pursue (which be a problem with your math; Troll can go over specifics if you like.) Troll be saying that we should attempt both at once rather than focusing on one exclusively. Troll no be quite sure what your qualm with that be.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Because I see this line of reasoning an excellent scum excuse for not pursuing someone they think is obvious scum.

[Sajin]

Your comparing the wrong odds. Reguardless, lets bring this back to specifics:

Another angle- If Hohum and I were both town do you think that scum would be on either or bandwagon?

[Sajin]

Troll- You seem to think Hohum and I are town/scum or chosen/scum.

If we are town/scum- Why not go through with picking out of us with your method?

If we are chosen/scum- If we hit the chosen first we get the scum the next day for a 1 scum of 5,

which is better than the odds of winning by the chosen method anyways

, or more optimally we nail a scum, and we enjoy the 1/7 scum odds with the alternate win condition still intact.

Essentially, unless you think hohum and I are both town then there is no reason to not be on one of our bandwagons, Troll.

[Sajin]

If both Sajin and hohum be town and neither be scum then Troll thinks there no be any good reason to think that scum should be on either bandwagon. If both be town and one be the chosen then there do be reason to think that there would be an above average chance of scum being on that wagon.

Because of what you said about miteymouse and you rational (where you summed up everybody in one post) and the above quote. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Sajin]

A pressure vote means nothing if you say you're going to lynch someone else anyway.

I never said we couldn't lynch Cojin today. Mitey will still be there tomorrow.

How do you know Mitey will be here tomorrow?

[Sajin]

Troll I am confused.

1- If you think someone is not likely chosen then that must mean you find someone more likely to be chosen.

2- If you think someone is more likely to be chosen, then you MUST think someone is more likely scum to get chosen reads.

3 If you think someone is more likely scum, why are you not voting that person?


If there is a flaw in this logic, please address the number. Thanks.

[Sajin]

@hohum- are you ever going to respond to my points against you?

@Troll- It does not help, what is scummy about MM besides he is "unlikely chosen"?

[Sajin]

I guess. I have a hard time reading the third person so pardon me for that.

Can you both just answer the questions rather than ask a question back?

[Sajin]

More questions....sigh. I will happily answer those when I get both of mine answered. Not before.

[Sajin]

Hohum is the best lynch for today, reasons:

Noise
Not answering questions
Tunneling
strong-arming
taking advantage of confusion

@Troll- I think I have the best case on the table. I feel like your sidestepping my case and using the chosen mechanic as an excuse to not vote for who you see as the most scummy.

I think there is a case on MM (apologies for the gender thing btw, feel free to update your profile) but I do not see it as better target than my current vote. If you wish to try and convince me MM is scummier feel free. But stop the not likely to be chosen BS.

I have posted math on this, I have posted reason on this. Lynch scum not lynch unlikely chosen. I feel like you ignore both even though you say you do not.

[Sajin]

Strongarming is good for the town....right. Taking advantage....yep.

If you call that scum hunting I am completely against it.

Care to answer my question yet hohum?

[Sajin]

Sajin's case isn't very good, I agree. But we're not lynching him today.

Why is it not that good?

[Sajin]

Meta me. As town I always say- If I was scum I would be doing XXXX. And so I am doing YYYY. I do the same thing as scum though.

What is wrong with attacking playstyle. If he is trying to force the lynch of someone in a game where there are lynchees that screams scum to me.

Regardless I would perfer a lynch of myself or hohum today by far over anyone else. It gives the most information. Choseness is irrelevant.

[Sajin]

What I think is the right path to follow is not the path that everyone is following.

[Sajin]

The fact that I want to lynch scum does not mean, that everyone else is trying to lynch scum. The fact that I am ignoring the chosen mechanic (for today anyways) does not mean others (read:the scum) are.

Thus the fact that I want hohum lynched based on a reason I do not believe in but I think he does makes sense to me.

I am not sure if I explained that well enough. But there you go.

[Sajin]

How is it hypocritical to assume someones motives are different then your own?

Is that not exactly what I SHOULD be voting for? Because I think the path to victory is easier then others make it out to be? Because someones motivation is DIFFERENT than my own?

Why would you want to take a 3 point shot when your down by 1 and you have a easy lay-up?

[Sajin]

You claimed motive doesn't mesh with your action. There has to be either another, or additional motive to why you didn't have a better target at the time of vote removal.

I'm voting Cojin, Scien. You're welcome to join us.

us? (goes back to look at votes, sees zito is voting by himself).....us?

[Sajin]

@Scien- missed the vote from qwintz thanks.

Your timeline is off though. That was after I got corrected on the rules.

[Sajin]

I think I have answered all of those points before with the exception of C. There is a large difference between your points and hohums. Hohum was charging forth blindly not caring about the other side of the arguement. I was attempting to acknowledge the other side of the arguement. It does not mean I agree with it nor accept it. Take that point of view or leave it. I really don't care.

Mitey that statement seems fairly scummy to me. Why would you perfer it not to be you?

[Sajin]

I said I saw how others could see it as scummy. When did I change my mind about my actions? Given the information I had I thought I was making the best play to my win condition. At first I thought "how the hell could you be seeing this as scummy?" because I thought the claiming idea was an incredibly beneficial thing to do. When I understood the attacks on me were for rolefishing that did not make sense to me either. I finally understood that he thought I was confused scum. And yes I was able to picture that situation and I acknowledge its feasibility but certainly not its actuality.

(for the record I have a 3-0 record as scum on this site, I will be happy to link it all if you wish, if you think I made a scum slip because I am noob scum etc. Mostly for hohum but I doubt he would even read it anyways. Nor would he care about this point. Ah well.)


Furthermore- I think lynching out of me and hohum is the best situation. Posit his meta and his inability to tunnel/vote/pressure anyone but me. If he is scum lynch him. If he is town, lynching him removes a vote scum would have anyways in a LY/LO situation and lynching me gives him a new direction for his tunneling (hopefully anyways). Going a different direction is only going to force our hand at a later date. (and yes I did change my stance on hohum, at first I thought he was being opportunistic. Now I just think he is being hardheaded as either alignment)

Thus I really "don't care" because I think it is in towns best interest to vote hohum today and failing that, me. Well that and I really don't like psychoanalysis debates. I don't find them fruitful ever and find them boring when reading them from an outside perspective and am annoyed when I am the subject of them. Shrug.

[Sajin]

How have I been tunneling hohum as much as he has been of me?

[Sajin]

Since I think your vote should be on one of us, what motivation would I have to get you off my case?

I will say this though, its hypocritical to have that viewpoint and not be voting either me or hohum.

[Sajin]

Answer the other question of you.

Also by having that viewpoint and not voting me my view of you is oppurtunistic scum who wants to take advantage of hohums tunneling at a later date. I like this vote.

unvote; vote Nikanor

[Sajin]

Good. That was the intent.

[Sajin]

Did you rad any of the previous comments?

Preferably hohum. But if its me thats fine too. I am saying that you need to pick out of us sometime as I doubt hohum will ever change his vote until either he or I are dead. Therefore his vote is a vote that scum may as well have if he is not one of them.

That said I think you are likely scum looking for an opportunity to setup a future ML. Since I think hohum and my situation is going to generate one, you might as well get it out of the way day 1 rather than later on. You not wanting to vote for me or hohum while reasoning that there is scum in our pair is incredibly scummy. Thanks for exposing yourself.

[Sajin]

read*, sigh failure preview.

[Sajin]

If hohum flips town. He will give his vote to the scum every night.

If hohum flips scum good ridence.

If you lynch me then town/hohum may actually scum hunt instead of tunnel.

If you lynch me and I flip chosen- hohum and scien and Nikanor need to be looked at


So either way you lynch from this pairing you eliminate one vote scum would have anyways. Optimally I would convince you to vote hohum. Suboptimal you lynch me. Either way thats one less vote they have later. What part of that does not make sense to you?


@Zito- I am playing to the best of my ability.

Sincerly, Sajin

[Sajin]

@Scien point 3: It might get his vote onto a scum. Either way he may as well be a scum voting at this point even if he is not. I was referencing his latching onto someone else after my lynch. Regardless.

[Sajin]

@Troll: Yep. I can change my stance.

[Sajin]

I like nikanor over scien for scum.

vote Nikanor

I would also hold that scien and nikanor are both unlikely chosen. Miteymouse, if not scum, is likely chosen.

[Sajin]

Just reread Scien at the end of the day. He does look really bad.

vote: Scien

BTW, highly anticipating hohum's entrance.

So am I!

[Sajin]

I hate the bandwagon em to L-1 approach to see scumslips approach. Town or scum can say things that seem scummy at that point and way too many don't read those tells correctly that follow that approach. Shrug.

Who is scum Scien? Your playing very defensive here.

[Sajin]

It is a wall of spam indeed.

You both had little to no attention from anyone and certainly no pressure from our scum. I would assume mitey is likely chosen for the opposite reasoning (scum was voting her most of the day).

Granted we can all WIFOM that. But I think cojin-scum would of been playing the direct route.

[Sajin]

I have a meta for voting people for fence sitting posts and that is a fence sitting post if I ever saw one. If your going to ask peoples opinions about something have one of your own. To not be doing so is keeping your options open and keeping your options open is scummy.

But about the post-I was trying to break the game in the towns favor. So if you truly believe I made the mistake then I should be considered town.

If I was lying about the mistake, fine. But since I was called out on the mistake why would I tell my supposed scum partner to do the same thing to get put under scrutiny? What advantage did I seek to gain when I made the mistake intentionally?


So which one are you saying I did?

[Sajin]

1- Can you point out what 2nd mistake your refering to?

2- Yes I would of broken the game. Did you read my first post with my original assumptions? (which its odd to say you have not as I remember you implying you thought the same) If the chosen knew who they were and claimed, scum could not both claim chosen or neither claim chosen as either of those options was auto town win. And then since scum must exist in either group (claimed chosen and not claimed chosen) it would of created clears as soon as one scum went down. Odds would of been strongly favoring town (as in 1/3 chance for auto win and a ~60 percent chance to win overall not even factoring in reads)

3- How would this make me scum then? Both town and scum would have motivation to mimic this way if it thought it would show them town and in no way would that be indicative of my own alignment. So I am puzzled why you would bring this point up except to mudsling.


/remind troll

[Sajin]

I suppose thats true. Heh, it would be auto victory. No matter if scum claimed 1 chosen and 1 not.

[Sajin]

@troll- I was eyeballing the odds from a lynch out of the chosen or scum side first. I did not consider the whole picture. Sorry.


@Scien- And my point still stands. You do not like me being considered town by some others. Therefore your trying to mudsling. Say it straight if your going to say it.

[Sajin]

I would love to hear of this multitude. I really would.

[Sajin]

(Sorry works sucks, will try and post more frequently, I am still on a never been replaced streak and I am not about to break it)

@Scien- are you concerned about your own survival? Do you think your a chosen?

@hohum- why am I still scummy to you?

[Sajin]

Is that addressed to me, troll?

Odds said it was better to try and lynch scum from day 1. I am not opposed to using the mechanics in the game to create advantage. But in this one I thought it was better to ignore it unless we got close to a endgame with chosen still alive.


I am still really confused why I was killed. I though mitey and myself were chosen and I thought scien was scum before I died. Unless zito convinced me off of it, I was going after scien as scum for endgame.


I do find it hilarious that the day 1 wagons were scum and scum. Heh.

[Sajin]

While I did try to look very very town, I would of been voting in a way that helped scum. Meh.

[Sajin]

No, it was the best position for this type of game. I would never have voted for myself and I was stressing how strong my hohum vote was.

By the same argument, the kill on me made zero sense.

And Troll how does your followup post support your original rant? I see these things as 2 different issues.

[Sajin]

I hate the RVS. Glad I could help.

Could of....but would of? From my experiences I highly doubted it. In my point of view it was best to lynch him because he was either scum or we a town giving his vote to scum for later. It made the most sense from my perspective to lynch him.

If I thought he would of, then I would not of taken that stance troll.

[Sajin]

Hohum was more likely scum in my eyes then town. I was trying to convince everyone else of that. Since I figured his vote was going to be with the scum regardless of what anyone said to him, I would be taking out one less vote of scums either way. Does that make sense?

I would not of done that had I though hohum was more likely town.

[Sajin]

No it was about there that I doubted my certainty he was scum. I considered he could of been town.

I knew he was tunneling on town. My logic was that either way I was getting rid of a vote that scum has. I think you are still missunderstanding my fundamental argument. You still are no addressing that part:

If someone is tunneling town and looks like they will never be convinced otherwise, and we have a ML, is it not worth lynching them?


I would of happily been the lynch if everyone else was convinced hohum was town. Either way it would of shifted the vote on a townie every day.

You are speaking as if everyone has as malleable a view point as you do. That is clearly not the case.

[Sajin]

I

Thought

He

Was

Scum


What part of that is hard to understand?

[Sajin]

And I would like your response to my arguments working under the fact that I thought he was scum, and myself chosen. And when you say I thought he was town, I was just considering that he was town somewhat possible but not probable. Thanks.

And Mitey, I likes the cross bus, you had me fooled. We had the chosen the save us. We all had the wrong reads.

[Sajin]

You have a big head. It is huge!