Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

I am a bit surprised by how frequent and how long Mastin's posts are, but if he has a habit of doing this early in games, then I'm not sure what to make of it. It is distracting in a way, but at the same time, it generates conversation, and the more talk there is, the more likely chance there is for scum to slip up.

He does it all the time At least, he has done so in my games with him.

[ZazieR]

Emerald City First Post

FoS:

Seryna

Kise,

Nadroj15

ZazieR

,

For being the last to confirm. It's a scum tell. (Sure, they replaced the last two to confirm, but still...that doesn't mean the tell doesn't apply.)

Well, in this case it doesn't apply You obv knew that and are now trying to get me lynched. Reasons for that can be found below XD

-=All Role PMs have gone out. It is now Night 0. Deadline for night actions will be set once at least 75% of confirmations are in.=-

I'm a member of Mafia A, along with...hmm...let's say...Roflcopter, Mufasa, MafiaMann, and...hmmm...Ah, yes. Kublai Khan.
Fallen Angel is also a neutral mafia traitor, who we failed to recruit last night for reasons we shalln't reveal.

Zazie is a Mafia B traitor, who can be recruited by the Mafia B faction. We want Zaz dead as soon as possible because of that.
And Kise...oh, right, did I mention Khan's a rolecop and we have daytalking abilities? Yea, we do, and Khan has revealed to us that Kise is a Mafia B godfather. Yay!

Obv a lie as Rofl would never betray me , right Rofl?
Mastin is planning to use circular logic here when I get lynched and turn up as Mafia A traitor in order to keep himself and the rest of our team safe

Discuss that

[ZazieR]

I wonder...can I get to a second page without it being considered spam, by myself?

Really, people...

Oh, and obviously, Mafia B is the Ceruleans. So, yay, my scum faction is way, way ahead!

This image answers your question and explains that we shouldn't be that sure of it, Mastin
So I'll say we use Mudkip next night to ensure our victory
Who else LURVES mudkips XD?

[ZazieR]

Wow, Mastin's on crack. And he didn't die on Night 0, which means he's scum.

vote: Mastin

(OMG Bandwagon!)

More seriously, I'm a miller. So if any cops investigated me, adjust your sanity accordingly.

Why did you claim?
And for clarification, dead miller or miller?

[ZazieR]

vote: Mastin (OMG Bandwagon!)

Mastin Unvotes: Mastin,
Mastin Votes: Kublai Khan.

This is blatant OMGUS.

Bad vote
Mudkipz say no to this!

[ZazieR]

ZOMG! He's altering his claim! Lynch all Liars!

Definitly LAL!

Less seriously, Roleclaim: A jester. TOWN, YOU LYNCH ALL JESTERS!

Mudkipz support LAL, and so do I!

And more seriously, Khan, you just stole Kise's spot on my sig.

OMG ^^That's so LAL

As said, Mudkipz support LAL
So Mudkip LURVERS support LAL! Let's lynch Mastin XD

[ZazieR]

kublai khan is town, and wins the common sense award for knowing what to do as a miller

mastin needs a new start-the-game-up gag. mastin has also committed a real scumtell, policy voting the guy who claimed miller in his first post.

vote: mastin

for great justice

whoever killed elvis has earned my eternal ire and i miss her already

Don't tell me you think Kublai is town, based upon him claiming miller, right?
Also, why are you ignoring me ?

[ZazieR]

It's got a wiki page.

It wasn't my fault Now DIE!!!

[ZazieR]

Meh. I think Khan is town, mostly because I have been told to claim miller ASAP to save cop investigations and shtuff like that. Then again, what do I know. It's one in the morning and I'm barely paying attention to this. Yay for The Simpsons DVDs.

Yeah, it's known site-wide. Which means that scum could also use it like this. So, in my opinion, it doesn't say anything about his allignment.

Hooray for circular logic [/sarcasm]

[ZazieR]

no mastin, backing up your kublai khan vote with the fact that he claimed miller is not "icing on the cake" and i will not let you pretend its part of your meaningless antics, its scummy and you will now be lynched. trying to unconfirm a player who is now as good as confirmed town will not stand on my watch.

Disagreed.
If Kublai is scummy, we should lynch him. If he's not, we shouldn't.
I'm not gonna give him a 'free pass' for claiming miller.

[ZazieR]

[vig directing] (a huge scum tell) It might be a good idea to vig him to make sure, though. [/vig directing].

This is noted.
Other than that, Post 29 sounds exactly like me XD

[ZazieR]

So im coming to the conclusion that the miller claim does not change anyones opinion on khan?

As said, I do not see this claim as a tell for any allignment. So I'll base my opinion of him upon his posts.

[ZazieR]

Do you think that if khan was scum he is using a solid scum tactic?

Can you rephrase the question? I don't know what you mean with 'solid scum tactic' >.<

[ZazieR]

Do you think that if khan was scum he is using a solid scum tactic?

Can you rephrase the question? I don't know what you mean with 'solid scum tactic' >.<

Do you think if he was scum he is making a good move.

Yes, because there will be many players who are suspicious of him due to the claim, but more won't be suspicious as it is seen as a pro-town move to claim miller before a cop investigation has been revealed.
Which means that an opposing scumteam kill would be very unlikely, the same goes for a SK and he can be less worried of being lynched. Also, cop(s) will not target him. Which leaves a vig as most dangerous and possibly the only treat.
There's one other thing why I see it as a good move, which I don't want to say now.

[ZazieR]

Uh... Two observations so far:

1) roflcopter is clearing me with a little too much conviction.

2) Mastin's acting really weird. Making jokes about how scummy you are in the random voting stage is just the sort of reverse psychology trick that would appeal to Mastin. My random vote is now kinda serious. Saying stuff like this:

Eh, he could be, he might not be. [vig directing] (a huge scum tell) It might be a good idea to vig him to make sure, though. [/vig directing].

Doesn't really come off as a joke so much as it comes off like an actual blatant scum tell posing as a joke.

He points out an observation without giving his opinion about it. Not liking that.
Also, the reason why he calls his random vote more serious, sits wrong, but I can''t explain why.

[ZazieR]

I do agree a bit with Rofl though. Mastin ignored Kublai''s post (though he later responded to it), while responding to a post that was made later on. Not liking that at all.

[ZazieR]

Most of the ones where I've acted this way are ongoing, though. Ask...hmm...
*takes a look at the player list*

Empking's Alt,
ZazieR,
and
Kise.

True, but I still need to see it having succes >.<

It's called a Simulpost. I hadn't noticed his post. Thanks for reminding me, though.

mhmm, seems plausible.

[ZazieR]

There's so much activity going on

Yea. This time people really can blame me and only me (...until Zaz logs on. ).

roflcopter is pressing for a lynch quite hard.

From what I understand, this is typical roflcopter stuff.

*Raises hand*
Here.
High five Mastin for keeping the activity high, while I was offline

And yeah, that''s Rofl for you

[ZazieR]

And in case anyone asks, I voted for Rotten because of his minimal post. There's so much activity going on, but he doesn't care to comment on it at all

Don''t like this vote. Rotten had not given any sign that he read the posts when he first posted, while fallen angel had. So I want to hear why Rotten and not fallen angel.

[ZazieR]

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy. Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages.

I'm gonna assume that rvs is over for a fact, so I hope the complete and total randomness dies down a bit. Though with Mastin and Zazie around....

Can you elaborate on the Rofl-part?
And why no vote for either one of them?

[ZazieR]

Wow. Thanks for posting ckool.

Vote Kublai

Obv scumslip in the quote from him that ckool just posted. Will comment more when I get at that post.

EDIT: Post 137 is the post I''m talking about.

[ZazieR]

Well, here are my thoughts so far- Mastin is being, well, Mastin. I'd be more worried if he acted sane. Roflcopter seems a bit scummy to me for tunneling Mastin with no real reason. Kise's voting Johnny seems really weird to me. Why him, out of all the other people who haven't posted? Out of the 21 still alive, haven't only about 7 or so posted?

Unvote, Vote Kise

.

Wow...
Just wow...
And I called Kise''s vote bad...

[ZazieR]

And Hayker continues to add totally nothing except for opinions that are easy to back-track.
Good second choice.

[ZazieR]

Mastin, since when are you my alt

[ZazieR]

I'm saying your attack on Mastin is scummy because it started on the first post of the second stage. The RVS didn't even seem over at that point, yet you just claimed it was.

So what in the 18 posts after this post ended the RVS to you and why?

[ZazieR]

Regarding post 59 (Rofl):
I keep it at ''lynch him if he''s scummy. If he''s not, don''t.''

[ZazieR]

@ZazieR: Way to look for convenient bandwagons to hop on.

Elaborate.

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

[ZazieR]

I asked basically the same thing. It's vital for Kise to answer the question. Ask rofl on the subject of:
Softclaims.
Or take a look at Lynch all Lurkers.

woah there. do not try to involve me in your rolefishing.

softlclaims brought on by pressure = scummy = need a fullclaim

possible breadcrumb = SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY = DO NOT FULLCLAIM OR CONFIRM OR DENY A KILLING ROLE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ROLE SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT

mastin's attempt to 1) pull a fullclaim out and 2) attach my name to drawing out said fullclaim is scummy in the extreme

Ok, I don''t understand this
Rofl, can you please explain it again?

[ZazieR]

You know, I am just going to be 100% honest with how I feel right now....

I don't know if Mastin is scum or not. What I do know is, his style of play last night was un-constructive (to say the least) and downright distracting.

That being said, it may be in the best interest of the town to vote Mastin out, whether he be scum OR town. If he flips scum, we score. If he flips town, then we lose a townie, but we also lose a HUGE distraction.

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

(why do I have the feeling I am about to be shit upon?)

Join the Mudkip LURVERS, just like me, and say no to policy lynches!

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:
This part is definitly scummy:

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

[ZazieR]

Do you actually think that Khan would have roleclaimed if this were the case? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. I am willing to believe Khan for now, unless he does something scummy. Although I believe his claim, I would hesitate to vote him for doing something scummy just because he RC'd miller. I am going to pretend he is just an ordinary player, to make it fair for everybody.

Wait. Why''d you treat somebody as an ordinary player when you think he''s town? Explanation much wanted.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

[ZazieR]

He's scummy because of saying the RVS was over, when it clearly wasn't to the majority of the players.

Nah, Rofl just got the memo first that the RVS was over, as the mod always sends a PM first to the scum, and afterwards to the townies. Which means Rofl claimed scum, and Hayker is town. Let''s lynch ahead[/sarcasm]

My opinion is that there''s no general borderline of the RVS. And I see no reason why this should be scummy.

[ZazieR]

ZazieR- I only know Mastin's meta, that's why I didn't have any other peoples meta in my argument. Will metagame later if time permits.

I assume you meant to aim this at Faraday?

[ZazieR]

i'm getting the feeling that people are posting without having actually read the entire thread. for reference, this post is very important, and if you are still discussing kublai khan right now i would like you to read it and then explain why you think its still in the town's best interest to spend time and energy debating the miller claim.

and hi zazie!

Hi Rofl
I agree that we shouldn''t spend time towards his claim, but in no way is he cleared. So if he acts scummy, I''ll try to get him lynched.

[ZazieR]

@ZazieR: Regular miller as far as I know.
@ZazieR: Your observation that my serious vote sits wrong with you without explaining why is sitting wrong with me, but I can't explain why.

As far as you know?! You claimed miller, shouldn''t you know if you''re a death miller or not in such situation?
And are you serious with the second point, or not?

[ZazieR]

Wow ZazieR, if you don't count the vote count post by the mod, you've just posted 12 times in a row! Is that a record?

I might have done worse than this XD
But that''s most likely in an ongoing game with almost 50 pages, so I''m not gonna check >.<

[ZazieR]

I'm having trouble believing that a mafia would kill Konowa.

Konowa, when he/she signed up for this game, hadn't played a single game of mafia yet! He/she signed up for one, but never actually played one. Would a newbie's likeliness to be lynched make the mafia want to kill them?... Probably not.

Does this make MafiaMann innocent?... I have no idea.

It''s actually possible, as a new player is less likely to be expected and can confuse town a lot.
However, I''m not a fan of looking into who killed who as each player think differently. I''ve learned this the hard way once >.<

[ZazieR]

Ok i understand now.

Assuming we have multiple factions though should that change how we scum hunt?

Nope, why should we?

[ZazieR]

@MafiaMann (116): Mastin listed you as a member of Mafia A and you weren't sure if he was completely joking? I took Mastin's opening post as a joke calling out and ribbing people he had a history and was familiar with. The fact that you aren't someone Mastin knows is now making me say hmmm.

Interesting catch.

@ckool5000 (117): How do you know a mafioso did it? Are you lamenting the loss of Konowa?

Why aren't you rejoicing that we have a lucky vig?

Tah scumslip. Lynch ahead.

[ZazieR]

Because in the quote, especially the bolded, he shows that he knows it wasn''t the other scumteam. And that''s only possible if you''re part of it.
Therefore, scumslip.

[ZazieR]

Rofl, to be fair, your attitude is not one which I think is scummy. Your playstyle is annoying, to say the least, and you tunnel and refuse to give up, no matter how well your target defends themselves. It can work (which is why whenever it does, you gain rather the ego, in my opinion) well sometimes, but it is far from 100%. Or 50%, for that matter.

Is this the reason why you said that we shouldn't kill Rofl, but somebody else instead? Because I asked you in our QT, but you couldn't respond to it as the day started soon afterwards

Seriously though, it seems you're mainly attacking Rofl for his playstyle in post 169. Why is that?

[ZazieR]

@Empking's Alt (112): Oh, okay.

@MafiaMann (116): Mastin listed you as a member of Mafia A and you weren't sure if he was completely joking? I took Mastin's opening post as a joke calling out and ribbing people he had a history and was familiar with. The fact that you aren't someone Mastin knows is now making me say hmmm.

Also: You're making some pretty reaching arguments which seem to betray a deeper knowledge of the game and it's setup than I've got. All I know is that there are 3 kills. Since the flavor is pretty minimal, the fact that the Cerulean Mafia has a name would strongly indicate that there are at least 2 mafia groups. The third kill could be a serial killer, a vigilante, or a third mafia group. The listed causes of death (Slaughtered/Murdered/Annihilated) give us no hints as to which group did what.

These are the bare basic facts. Your wild speculation about multiple mafia doctors is unhelpful and has been noted.

1 Im not saying its all true by any means but there maybe some truth in that statement. It shouldnt be disregarded and ignored because it was mastin who said it. I'm tired of everything is just mastin being mastin.

Well, for that statement to have some truth, Mastin has to be scum, no?
So do you think he's scum and why?

[ZazieR]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

I think mastins not being completely clear in everything he says. His use of sarcasm is confusing and breeds WIFOM arguments. I dont know if its scummy or the way he plays but definitely is not helpful when he isnt straight forward with the town.

So the reason why you only call out Mastin, but not me, is?
Also, in this post you mention that it could be his play (finding an excuse why it's not scummy), but in your previous post (post 171) you state that you're tired of everything is just Mastin being Mastin.
So what is it?

[ZazieR]

My "distraction" only lasts until the RVS is over. Then I start scum hunting.

As long as the game is Zazie-free, this would be correct. See post 174 for the reason why XD

Agreed on the part about Rotten.

And I already saw that you stated that you missed Kublai's post (I think) due to simul post. I also stated that it seemed plausible, as I've had this as well in a different fast-paced game >.<

Also, stop responding to things that aren't aimed at you >.<

I'll make one big post in which I reply to the other things of this post addressed at me, as those were very jokey. That way, the other players can at least ignore the other post if they want to

[ZazieR]

I do have one random, off topic question. What the hell is a "scum-day"? Is that just a fancy name for birthday? (yes, it is 3 am and I am tired)

Well, in each profile you can see when a player joined the site. When that date arrives again, you're having a scumday. It's a 'birthday' only regarding the date you joined.
Will check your post later.

[ZazieR]

Jesus Mastin. Need to cut the crap.
Your obviously mafia. xD

K. so. I'm gonna have to go re-read through all this crap.

FoS: Empking's Alt.

I post reasons later.

Checked if he had already explained why, and he did.
Noted that he did the same as the one he's FoSing.

[ZazieR]

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy.

Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages.

I'm gonna assume that rvs is over for a fact, so I hope the complete and total randomness dies down a bit. Though with Mastin and Zazie around....

Can you elaborate on the Rofl-part?
And why no vote for either one of them?

The elaboration is in post 178.

I was referring to the bolded. I don't think you have explained that bit yet which points you see as valid.

[ZazieR]

Going by meta game knowledge that others have, that's normal. But I dan't go basing my opinions oiff of other peoples thoughts.

So really I don't know much about that subject, and am currently looking at others opinions on that subject.

Noted.

[ZazieR]

And Hayker continues to add totally nothing except for opinions that are easy to back-track.
Good second choice.

I didn't add anything sicne the first post of page 5(I think, I might have made another post somewher eon 5, but I'm too lazy to check right now. Will corretc later if nescesary)

Opinions that are easy to back-track? Could you explain exactly what this means? My apologies, but despite english being my first(and only) language, I have only a basic grasp of how to use it.

My point with that post was that you haven't hunted for scum in any of your posts, and only in your first post you have given your opinion about players.
(Though this has a bit changed now)
However, the opinions you stated in your first post are easy to back-track. Take for example Kublai:

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages.

By stating the part about the newbie game, you can easily switch your opinion about him.
This is also the case with your opinion about Rofl, but I'm withholding the explanation for that now.

[ZazieR]

He's scummy because of saying the RVS was over, when it clearly wasn't to the majority of the players.

Nah, Rofl just got the memo first that the RVS was over, as the mod always sends a PM first to the scum, and afterwards to the townies. Which means Rofl claimed scum, and Hayker is town. Let''s lynch ahead[/sarcasm]

My opinion is that there''s no general borderline of the RVS. And I see no reason why this should be scummy.

Sarcasm aside. Rofl seemed to set a distinct border. Reasons have been explained as to why I found it scummy.

I said

general

border. In other words, the RVS ends for each player at different times. Not at the same time, which would be a general border.
Rofl found something scummy, so it ended for him. You even state he had valid reasons. So I find it scummy that you use this as a reason for voting him.

[ZazieR]

But first of all, yay! A mafia doctor (or whatever it is) has been eliminated!

This is the reverse-"well, that sucks"-tell.

Auto-FoS: ckool.

It's alright to be happy that a mafia doctor is dead.
To EXPRESS that, however, is scummy.

Never believed in this tell, never will.

[ZazieR]

Just because something is said in RVS i shouldnt pay attention to it?

For now, yes. Later when scum has flipped, RVS posts can be useful.

[ZazieR]

Do you think if he was scum he is making a good move.

Yes, because there will be many players who are suspicious of him due to the claim, but more won't be suspicious as it is seen as a pro-town move to claim miller before a cop investigation has been revealed.
Which means that an opposing scumteam kill would be very unlikely

You think there's 2 scum teams? Don't break my heart here Zazie... what do you know???

This point is based upon experience. In almost every game I've seen in which the mafia had a name, there was a second scumteam. The only exception I know off is this one.
However, in all the large normals in which scum had a name, there was always a second scumteam:
-Mafia 82
-Mafia 86
-Mafia 88

Also, in each large normals with only one scumteam, the scum didn't have any names:
-Mafia 83
-Mafia 84
-Mafia 85
-Mafia 87
-Mafia 89
-Mafia 90

Based upon these finished games, I think that there are two scumteams.

[ZazieR]

Elaborate.

Using someone else's evidence to justify your vote. If it turns out to be wrong, it's the other guy's fault, not yours. Self-absolution is scummy.

As far as you know?! You claimed miller, shouldn''t you know if you''re a death miller or not in such situation?
And are you serious with the second point, or not?

My Role PM just says I'm a regular miller. I haven't checked iamausername's meta-mod to see if he's the type of mod to get creative with secret roles. So I'm a regular miller, as far as I know.

Semi-serious on the second point. Maybe. Vague accusations suck, don't they.

Because in the quote, especially the bolded, he shows that he knows it wasn''t the other scumteam. And that''s only possible if you''re part of it.
Therefore, scumslip.

It doesn't show crap. In context I was asking ckool5000 why he thought "scenario A" happened and not an alternative "Scenario B". I never said that "Scenario B" is what I thought happened.

FOS: ZazieR

ORLY? Whose evidence did I use then? Because I'm positive that I only mentioned your quote in my post which had my vote included. So explain where I did so.

Obv scum lying about his role. Note that he claims that he wasn't sure if he was a regular miller or a death miller, yet didn't ask the mod what he was.

Vague accusations don't suck at all. Based upon how the accused player reacts, you can get a lot of information. Your reaction tells me that you are scared of it as you can't defend yourself against it. And I see no reason why you should be scared if you are indeed a miller.

It shows a lot. But before I explain, which role do you think killed Konowa: SK, vig or a mafia role?

[ZazieR]

@Hayker: Stop making posts like 185 & 186. It's bad enough that ZazieR and Mastin post mostly nonsense posts. Don't emulate them.

Wow, somebody sounds frustrated...

[ZazieR]

Mastin- Seems perfectly normal to me. Lots of scumhunting. Pro-town.
ZazieR- Mastin with shorter posts.

So, Mastin isn't my alt. I'm Mastin's alt

[ZazieR]

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

Uhm, no. Kublai's claim has been THE talk.
What's your opinion of Kublai actually? You haven't mentioned him so far
(EBWOP, you have in this post >.<)

I also disagree with policy lynches, as it gives the scum an easy lynch if that player is town.

I do have one hypothetical question I would like to ask. Kublai Khan has claimed Miller. If, by some happenstance, the cop in this game were to investigae KK on night 0, would the result that he/she received change anything?

Cops would get the opposite of what they would get when investigating a townalligned player. In other words, cops would get the same result as when they would investigate scum.

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

[ZazieR]

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

Uhm, no. Kublai's claim has been THE talk.
What's your opinion of Kublai actually? You haven't mentioned him so far
(EBWOP, you have in this post >.<)

I also disagree with policy lynches, as it gives the scum an easy lynch if that player is town.

I do have one hypothetical question I would like to ask. Kublai Khan has claimed Miller. If, by some happenstance, the cop in this game were to investigae KK on night 0, would the result that he/she received change anything?

Cops would get the opposite of what they would get when investigating a townalligned player. In other words, cops would get the same result as when they would investigate scum.

You really don't think that Mastin and his bizarre, mind-fuck style of gameplay has been more of a talk than KK? Maybe the quality of talk is better in the KK side, but the sheer quantity has got to be in Mastin's camp.

I understand what the role of the millar is. What I mean to ask is, would it make any difference if the cop were to have investigated KK night 0, and then come forward with his result? Would the guilty or not guilty verdict change anything?

For what it is worth, I feel that KK is honest in his Role Claim. I replaced into another game with him in it, and his play is consistant with that game. I know that he could be pulling the wool over my eyes, but thats what I got.

No, I really think that Kublai has been mentioned more.
The timing of the verdict would make the difference to me. If it was made before the miller claim, I'd question the claimed miller. If it was made afterwards, I'd question the claimed cop.

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

Yeah, I don't think you've explained why it's a possible scumtell.

I feel that, in a large game such as this, with a 3 week deadline and over half of the participants not even posting yet, voting at that time was inappropriate. Perhaps trying to start a bandwagon? Perhaps to show scum-mates who to target?

Like I said previously, this is my first large game, so perhaps this is the way it goes. It just struck me as odd.

I don't think the timing of voting makes any difference in either a newbie, a mini or a large. the reason why I prefer to vote as soon as possible, is mainly to show where my suspicions lie.

[ZazieR]

ORLY? Whose evidence did I use then? Because I'm positive that I only mentioned your quote in my post which had my vote included. So explain where I did so.

ckool5000.

Wow. Thanks for posting ckool.
Vote Kublai
Obv scumslip in the quote from him that ckool just posted. Will comment more when I get at that post.

Your vote is the direct result of piggy-backing someone else's evidence. Quit pretending like I'm making things up.

Obv scum lying about his role. Note that he claims that he wasn't sure if he was a regular miller or a death miller, yet didn't ask the mod what he was.

My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me.

But if you insist

, I'll double check with iamausername.

It shows a lot. But before I explain, which role do you think killed Konowa: SK, vig or a mafia role?

I don't know. However, I strongly doubt that it was the Cerulean Mafia.

See post 140. Back then, I hadn''t seen that post of yours in which you slipped up. But due to a simulpost of me and ckool, I saw the part in which you slipped up.
Also, note that ckool didn''t mention anything about a slip-up.
So explain how I''m using his evidence.

Note the bolded. He''s trying to ''please'' me, and he apparently didn''t have any intention to double check, while he claims to haven''t been sure about his role.

Great answer So of four possible killing roles/groups you

strongly doubt

that the Cerulean mafia killed one of their own.
Can you now tell which of the possible three remaining killing roles/groups would have most likely killed Konowa?

[ZazieR]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

I think mastins not being completely clear in everything he says. His use of sarcasm is confusing and breeds WIFOM arguments. I dont know if its scummy or the way he plays but definitely is not helpful when he isnt straight forward with the town.

So the reason why you only call out Mastin, but not me, is?
Also, in this post you mention that it could be his play (finding an excuse why it's not scummy), but in your previous post (post 171) you state that you're tired of everything is just Mastin being Mastin.
So what is it?

Im not excusing him i still want him not to

Who is ''him'' (the second one)?
If you mean Mastin, I don''t understand what you''re saying here.

[ZazieR]

My opinion on scum is maybe ckool because some of his posts dont contain much meat but I may be guilty of something similar.

Also Hayker seems to be making a lot of mistakes and some of which can misleading.

Yeah, you are guilty of something similar. This is duly noted.
And can you elaborate on your opinion of Hayker?

[ZazieR]

It's mostly just the same type of posting as ckool, IIoA, that makes it seem newbish to me.

Explain why IIOA makes ckool a suspect to you, while MM isn''t one.
And explain the difference between ckool and MM type of posting.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Explain this as well:

ckool5000- Little content, comments more then really analyzes. What he does analyze isn't extremely helpful. Attempting to scumhunt. Neutral leaning towards town.
MM- Seems newbtown, but possible newbscum. I'm not great at differentiating between them. Didn't really analyze anything as much as bring up questions. Tunneled on Mastin's 2 factions claim. Very weak scumhunting. Neutral leaning at scummy.

First ckool was neutral leaning towards town, but now you see him as most scummy.
MM was first neutral towards scummy, but now just neutral.
For both these two changes, you''ve given the same reason: the way they post.
So explain how your thoughts changed for these two players.

[ZazieR]

I had no issues with post 268, and found this part very interesting:

Third, if Mastin was the talk of the day then why just ask for more people to comment on him, why not raise some new questions?

But then came this:

And finally... you used "lol" even after it was specifically mentioned as a scum tell in this game.

Explain this comment now.

[ZazieR]

@Mastin
No, there are 3 players who have a username that start with a ''M''. Mufasa hasn''t posted yet.

[ZazieR]

Post 284

Explain how points 1, 2 and 4 regarding ckool make him look scummy.
What do you think of the slip I''ve pointed out about Kublai?
Explain how point 2 regarding Rotten makes him look scummy.
Point 3 about Rotten is very:


(Yep, I''m not only a Mudkip LURVER, but also a ferfetch''d FANNER
His stick is pretty useful )

[ZazieR]

It seems like poor practice to not PM the mod for clarification on what type of miller you are.

Please do so now.

I'm a regular Emerald Miller. I show up as scum on Investigations, but will be revealed as town after death.

And the scum was trapped.
How come you had doubts about being a death miller with that as flavour?
Can we finally lynch him? More obvious it''s not gonna get.

[ZazieR]

KK's post here is rather interesting. Zazie got caught slipping and she still has a chance to break my heart.. my achey-breaky heart. I would encourage her to explain/comment on Khan's exposure of her.

What ''exposure''?

[ZazieR]

Mastin is going the right way
He has almost figured out that Kublai is scum.

And stop blaming me, as I have not made my post yet in which I''ll comment to your jokey responses towards me >.<

[ZazieR]

Also how do you link to a specific post? Or can you?

You can. Each post shows the date and time when it that post was posted. In this area, you can see a paper-looking image:


When you click on it with the left mouse-button, the url of that post will be given. use [url] tages in your post and when you click on it, you''ll be transferred to that post.
Hope my explanation makes sense


Anyway, what do you think of Kublai''s doubt about being a miller or a death miller?

[ZazieR]

ZazieR has been posting just as much as Mastin has, but

her

posts are easy to read sentences/paragraphs, so it's not that distracting. Furthermore, I don't know if ZazieR usually posts this much so I don't have a good read on

her

.

Fixed for you.
Well, it only started recently that I started making this many posts >.<
It started I think in Open 145, and I think I''ve been doing this in most games ever since then.

[ZazieR]

So. He didn't have anything to say. He kinda just showed up and waggoned.
Idk. Just don't feel right about him.
He has my FoS.

^^His reasoning.

[ZazieR]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

My reason for thinking your post was strange^^

[ZazieR]

I only post a lot when I don't have much to say, then think of something then post it... Then think of something else and post that, and etc.... I'm going to have to leave a mental note in my brain that if either ZazieR or Achilles is scum, then they're not scum buddies... Since, wouldn't Achilles remember that ZazieR is female if he was her scumbuddy? That doesn't mean that they're not both scum, nor does it mean that they're scum at all!... They're probably just not scumbuddies...

I don't think it says anything. There are only a few players who check gender signs, and for one strange reason, many players use 'he', 'him' or 'his' against me
It's only a sign that he didn't check. And he can be glad that he didn't do something like that sooner, as I used to post images like these when somebody did :


But it's hard to keep finding new pics, so I quit doing that >.<

[ZazieR]

My opinion on scum is maybe ckool because some of his posts dont contain much meat but I may be guilty of something similar.

Also Hayker seems to be making a lot of mistakes and some of which can misleading.

Yeah, you are guilty of something similar. This is duly noted.
And can you elaborate on your opinion of Hayker?

I believe it was pointed out several times in slip ups he made in falsehoods in his posts i think he even admitted it.

Examples? I can only think of one thing that fits this description if I understand this correctly.

[ZazieR]

Amen! it took me close to 3 hours to catch up on everything

Don't tell me that what you have written in your last post were the only things you wanted to comment on.

If kublai is town, then this is the best thing that he could have done. If he is mafia, well who knows. But he should be vig-killed and investigated. So when he is killed, hopefully cop can claim and we can figure out the sanity of the cop.

Directing of powerroles is noted.

So who's suspicious to you?

[ZazieR]

I am a bit confused about the votes on Hayker. Can you give examples of his backtracking? I don't think that he seems scummy

Well, there's only one vote against Hayker, so no 'votes'.
Anyway, I've given two examples of Hayker's 'back-tracking': His opion of Rofl and his opinion of Kublai.
Of those I've explained Kublai already:

@Kublai:I don't know for sure, but perhaps his acting different is because that was a newbie game. I can already tell how different newbie games are from large games in the first two pages

He notes down that Kublai's behaviour is different, but at the same time gives a possible reason.
I should probably say back-trackable opions.

[ZazieR]

what do you guys mean by figure out the "sanity of the cop"?. I'm assuming vig-killed means vigilante killed?

Sanity of the cop
There are multiple sanities possible. The link shows which are most common and explains what it means.
And vig-killed means indeed vigilante killed.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I said I don't use the images anymore. But this is the only one I'll always use

Prod time

List of player who will be grinded:
Mufasa

(Wow, this is bad... I thought it would be more)

[ZazieR]

Also (This will be a huge shock to most of you), I just noticed that Mastin didn't post here when I was sleeping
Does this mean you like to play more with Kevin than with me, Mastin ?

[ZazieR]

How come you had doubts about being a death miller with that as flavour?

Bad memory or selective revisionism?

I'll get to the rest of your post later. But I want to hear now a straight answer, and what 'selective revisionism' means.
Actually, explain for both how it leads that you didn't know with such flavour if you were a miller or a Death miller.

[ZazieR]

@Kublai

Offtopic: Since when do you visit IRC mafia and how much do you play there? I've never seen you there.

[ZazieR]

1. See post 140. Back then, I hadn''t seen that post of yours in which you slipped up. But due to a simulpost of me and ckool, I saw the part in which you slipped up.
Also, note that ckool didn''t mention anything about a slip-up.
So explain how I''m using his evidence.
2. Great answer Rolling Eyes So of four possible killing roles/groups you strongly doubt that the Cerulean mafia killed one of their own.
Can you now tell which of the possible three remaining killing roles/groups would have most likely killed Konowa?

1. Why reference ckool5000 at all then? Why didn't you scroll back 4 posts (from 137 to 133) and quote me directly? Buddying?
2. WTF? No, I'm not even going to venture a guess.

You've already proven that you'll take anything I say and twist it so that you make me look scummy.

That is a loaded question with no right answer designed to entrap anyone dumb enough to answer it.

1. Because I was writing a post. While writing that one, I pressed 'preview' to see if the quote tags were correct, and if what I'm saying is clear. While doing so, I saw ckool's post. When you preview, you see the top of the last post. In this case, it was ckool's post with at the top, your quote. That's why I mentioned him, as I was actually still updating and not there yet, but I wanted to comment on it already. And as said in that post, I'd comment on it more when I got there. Which I did.

2. I assume that you won't answer that question then. May I?
Also, explain the bolded.

[ZazieR]

But first of all, yay! A mafia doctor (or whatever it is) has been eliminated!

This is the reverse-"well, that sucks"-tell.

Auto-FoS: ckool.

It's alright to be happy that a mafia doctor is dead.
To EXPRESS that, however, is scummy.

Never believed in this tell, never will.

I sort of do believe in this tell. I looked at all my other games that I have finished so far, and in most of the ones where I am mafia, I sometimes comment on things that stink for the town. I also noticed that I usually don't mention things like this when I am town. It may have meant that I am not very good at this game, but it might be a possibility for those people who aren't very experienced.

It might be. But I think it's more based upon feelings. Some players show these feelings more easily than others. So I think it's more based upon personality, than allignment.

[ZazieR]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

You're saying I shouldn't believe him?

I'm voting him, so yeah, I'm saying that you shouldn't believe him.
But I'm saying in that post that it's strange that you believe a claim, yet still would treat him as any ordinary player.

[ZazieR]

I sometimes find that piggy-backing is a good thing. It sometimes a post that one person makes that convinces you to lynch another person that turns out to be mafia. This is one of the main reasons why we discuss before we lynch. I'm sure some people have completely different ideas as to who is scummy and they could be wrong. I would find it more scummy for somebody to completely recite the opinion of another player and pretend as if it was their own idea.


Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m. Why don't you post when you are awake and can give us your most decent opinions. Not that I am saying any posts following these sort of comments have been bad, but I am just requesting this for the future.

But I'm not piggy-back riding.
Also, if that time comment is aimed at me, I live in a country with as timezone GMT+2.

[ZazieR]

Also, what is a policy lynch?

That you lynch a player based upon his playstyle (like always lurking, always posting one-liners, always posting Mastin-style, etc.), instead of his behaviour in the game.

[ZazieR]

Not that I'm giving anybody town points, but I only see Rotten & Khan as strong enough cases to make votes against. MM still has my finger on him, although he's picked it up a bit, as far as scumhunting goes.

ORLY?:

KK's post here is rather interesting. Zazie got caught slipping and she still has a chance to break my heart.. my achey-breaky heart. I would encourage her to explain/comment on Khan's exposure of her.

^^That quote says something else.
Also, I asked you what ''exposure'' you''re talking about. Can you explain that now?

[ZazieR]

I'd also like to state before going on, that my posts around the beggining were all made at midnight-2amish. Therefore my thought process is kinda flawed.

My reason for not posting in the past couple days is exams and lack of proper sleep. I always look scummy(well more scummy) when I post while tired.

Scummy^^

Anyways, my possible explanation about Kublai had no basis. I was just saying a possibility because the question was raised. i have a bad habbit of answering questions I know little about.

Regarding what is this?

Still back-trackable opinions.

His reasons are bad, his posts are sub-par.

Can you elaborate on this?

[ZazieR]

Anyways, my possible explanation about Kublai had no basis. I was just saying a possibility because the question was raised.

i have a bad habbit of answering questions I know little about.

This bother me a little.

Why are you answering questions when you know you are probably wrong? Giving people wrong information wont benefit anybody.

This as well, though I don''t see it as scummy. It''s anti-town behaviour.

[ZazieR]

Wick: 0, 4, 5

What is this in response to?

[ZazieR]

ckool point 1: It's the equivalent of the "oh man sux we lost the doctor" tell.

ckool point 2: It seemed like a greatly ridiculous bit of bad logic and fake scumhunting. As to the question about whether i think the people who agreed with it are scummy, I was hoping they were joking. Otherwise they're just trendy bastards.

ckool point 4: More possible fake scumhunting, also gives me a general sense of ckool being really impatient.

JRotten point 2 and 3: Most of the reason for the HoS was point 1, points 2 and 3 were just the other things that stood out to me while reading his posts.

ckool 1: I was more asking why you see that as a scumtell.
ckool 2: How is it bad logic?
ckool 4: I disagree with what you said. To me, it seems ckool said something else. But I''ll let ckool respond first.

And you haven''t explained yet why Rotten 2 makes Rotten look scummy. Could you do that?

[ZazieR]

@ZazieR (339 & 340): I just discovered ircmafia not to long ago. I use the same nick as here. Alexhans can vouch for teaching me the ropes there, including showing me how to look at test setups and such. Xyl's bot seems to like to use stuff like Secret Role, Amnesiac, etc. I had just gotten done playing a bunch of games on Saturday before the game opened, so Sunday all that stuff was still on my mind. Was really stupid of me to bring it up as this isn't a Bastard Mod game and iamausername is unlikely to use such wild roles. I'm on at various times (usually in the evening, but most of the night nothing seems to be happening).

"Selective revisionism" is redundant I guess. Revisionism was the accusation I laid upon you (for asking a question I already gave an answer to in my post 207).

Wow, if I had known sooner what you meant with ''selective revisionism'', we could have had more votes on you already...
IRC roles don''t include flavour. Based upon the flavour you''ve claimed to have received, you should have known that you were a miller, instead of a death miller. So the ''parony'' you''ve claimed to have received from IRC is invalid.
Not only that, when you apparently didn''t know if you were a miller or a death miller, you didn''t ask the mod to make sure. Only after this was pointed out, you decided to ask.
Also, what did the mod say about your question you said you''d ask him?

@ZazieR (342): 1. When previewing a post, the Topic Review box allows you to scroll up to 25 (or so) of the previously made comments. You could have easily see ckool5000's entire post before posting.

The accusation was that I took ckool''s evidence. Yet, nowhere in his post, this was mentioned. Your response to that was:

1. See post 140. Back then, I hadn''t seen that post of yours in which you slipped up. But due to a simulpost of me and ckool, I saw the part in which you slipped up.
Also, note that ckool didn''t mention anything about a slip-up.1.

Why reference ckool5000 at all then? Why didn't you scroll back 4 posts (from 137 to 133) and quote me directly? Buddying?

So I explain that I saw it through preview. Your response is the one mentioning post 342. Once again, you say that I could have used his post. Yet, in the above post you acknowledge that I didn''t as you ask why I mentioned his post then.
So explain why you are still pushing this argument.

2. You can answer the question if you want. And the bolded I wrote because you took my question to ckool5000 and labelled it a "scumslip" when it absolutely wasn't.

I don''t speculate on who killed who. The only reason I ask is because of this quote:

@ckool5000 (117): How do you know a mafioso did it? Are you lamenting the loss of Konowa? Why aren't you rejoicing that we have a lucky vig?

I asked who you thought killed Konowa. You said that you think that the Cerulean mafia didn''t kill him. But for other killing roles, you didn''t know.
Yet, in the quote of which I accuse you slip, you''re stating that a vig did it without adding a word that can show a sign of possibility, aka ''can'', ''possibly'', etc.
Yet, you even considered that the third kill could have been from a third scum team. So for somebody who states that he doesn''t know, you''re very certain that a vig did it. And that''s only possible in one way as I''ve already said.

[ZazieR]

1. Um.... What? Look, if someone says, "Oh, congrats doctor!", then that's a scumtell... But me saying that I'm glad that a scum powerrole is dead?... Well...... It's not a scumtell, because it's something we all know... Or something.... So... Yeah....

So you see congratulating the doc as a scumtell, but congratulating the vig/SK not? Please explain the difference.

4. Sheesh! Okay, I'm not used to games where 15 pages are made within three days, why does everyone keep rubbing it in? Also, all I wanted to do was get some more opinions in here. Also, I didn't want anyone to start lurking, nor did I say anyone was. I just said that they were on the edge of lurking. And look what happened next! The people on the list started posting!

As far as I know, he only named the players who had already posted, but not/barely contributed at that time.That''s a sign of trying to get others to join the discussion or to post their opinion. So that list of his is not scummy.

So point 1 is most likely going to be scummy, unless he has a good reason why congratulating the vig/SK isn''t a scumtell to him.
Point 4, however, is not scummy.

[ZazieR]

1) Assuming there are multiple scumgroups, then the celebrating of a mafia doctor dead is an extremely valid tell.

Why?

4) Meh. Not posting one day after the game starts isn't a scumtell/bad thing. It almost always takes me 1+ days to even notice my game has started. Again, null tell or justification.

Note that the listed players all had posted already when they were put down on that list. They already knew the game had started, yet had barely added something.

2. Plus it was something I've always wanted to say in a mafia game.

2. Even more justification for your actions. This is starting to seem really scummy.

I''m positive that ckool had said this a few times before already. I think even in the post which was possibly his largest post so far. So why did you only point it out now?

[ZazieR]

Regarding posts 383 - 397:
''Hayker? Why are you warning/advising/coaching ckool?''
This

''If you are town, you shouldn't be phased and give up. If you are scum, by all means do so.''
This

But ckool strikes me as newbtown.

[ZazieR]

Also,

fallen

, this:

It's mostly just the same type of posting as ckool, IIoA, that makes it seem newbish to me.

Explain why IIOA makes ckool a suspect to you, while MM isn''t one.
And explain the difference between ckool and MM type of posting.

EBWOP
Explain this as well:

ckool5000- Little content, comments more then really analyzes. What he does analyze isn't extremely helpful. Attempting to scumhunt. Neutral leaning towards town.
MM- Seems newbtown, but possible newbscum. I'm not great at differentiating between them. Didn't really analyze anything as much as bring up questions. Tunneled on Mastin's 2 factions claim. Very weak scumhunting. Neutral leaning at scummy.

First ckool was neutral leaning towards town, but now you see him as most scummy.
MM was first neutral towards scummy, but now just neutral.
For both these two changes, you''ve given the same reason: the way they post.
So explain how your thoughts changed for these two players.

[ZazieR]

Regarding the Rotten wagon:

Mastin

, how many times have you been policy lynched or been in favor of a policy lynch and in total how many players were involved?

[ZazieR]

@Zaz - I didn't personally backtrack when Khan "exposed" you for using someone else's quotes to support your case against him. So everything he said about you, I believed it. You retorted back by saying you didn't use anybodies quotes, and I [still lazily] did not backtrack to confirm for myself. So, me thinking that someone/Khan would not deliberately lie about something such as this, I thought he exposed you for lying yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, Kublai said I lied and you believed him without checking if I did?

After a while, he himself begins to get caught up in quite a tangled web, where he's not sure if he's a death miller or an [emerald] miller. Add to that the uncertainty he has when answering Mastin's questions, and he gives off a huge scummy aura to me.

So why no vote?

HoS: ckool (it's evident why)

Even if this is so, an elaboration would be appreciated.

[ZazieR]

@Zaz - I didn't personally backtrack when Khan "exposed" you for using someone else's quotes to support your case against him. So everything he said about you, I believed it. You retorted back by saying you didn't use anybodies quotes, and I [still lazily] did not backtrack to confirm for myself. So, me thinking that someone/Khan would not deliberately lie about something such as this, I thought he exposed you for lying yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, Kublai said I lied and you believed him without checking if I did?

After a while, he himself begins to get caught up in quite a tangled web, where he's not sure if he's a death miller or an [emerald] miller. Add to that the uncertainty he has when answering Mastin's questions, and he gives off a huge scummy aura to me.

So why no vote?

HoS: ckool (it's evident why)

Even if this is so, an elaboration would be appreciated.

[ZazieR]

I've had a busy few days. :/

Then next time you should announce that you''ll be V/LA in all your games


(:oops: Sorry for that same post twice >.< My computer is being a pain in the ass lately, as can be seen from my '' >.<)

[ZazieR]

I've had a busy few days. :/

Then next time, you should post in every game you'll be V/LA


(:oops: blame my computer for that double post...)

[ZazieR]

Ok, I'm really confused right now >.<
When I just did preview, I saw that my original post was posted, and the one I did afterwards, but I don't see them in this topic now >.<
And as I said in that one, the double post regarding Kise was the fault of my computer.

[ZazieR]

Mod

- Now that I can see the posts, can you delete posts 424, 426 and 427? If possible, this one afterwards as well? That would be really appreciated

[ZazieR]

You read the same thing only twice, and as said, computer issues
I just re-started it, and everything''s working again (for now...). But I''m asking the mod already to delete some of the double posts >.<

[ZazieR]

Regarding posts 383 - 397:
''Hayker? Why are you warning/advising/coaching ckool?''
This

''If you are town, you shouldn't be phased and give up. If you are scum, by all means do so.''
This

But ckool strikes me as newbtown.

What for makes it newbtown and not newbscum

Gut.

[ZazieR]

Regarding posts 383 - 397:
''Hayker? Why are you warning/advising/coaching ckool?''
This

''If you are town, you shouldn't be phased and give up. If you are scum, by all means do so.''
This

But ckool strikes me as newbtown.

What for makes it newbtown and not newbscum

Gut.

I agreed with with this untill I saw his reaction after getting ONE vote. Makes me think newbscum

I don''t as he had already made that comment of keeping his mouth shut before fallen voted him.

[ZazieR]

That wasn''t a justification of not talking. That second quote was aimed at this:

Especially since you only have my one vote on you. If you are town, you shouldn't be phased and give up. If you are scum, by all means do so.

Fallen was saying that he should be scumhunting if he''s town. As response he asked what he should do if he doesn''t have anything worthwile to say.
The second quote has nothing to do with the first quote in your post, MM.

[ZazieR]

I guess I was right in post 128: The more I post, the more I look like an idiot . (If you don't believe me about that, ask Faraday about my first game...)

Not sure if he did, but

Faraday

can you tell us a bit more?

[ZazieR]

jesus, I thought you said it gets better...it is getting to the point that I can just read mastin's posts, because he comments on every fucking line....on page 9ish

But Mastin is absent for a few pages. That''s what was meant. In those pages, I''m the one with the ''irritating'' poststyle >.<

[ZazieR]

whoa...note to self, reread post 219 after reading the whole game.

also (sorry if this is a repeat question) has it been meta-ed (confirmed?) that Mastin does this every game he is in?

Yeah. I''ve seen it happen twice now. And I think he did it in another ongoing game as well. (Regarding claiming scum)
Post-style is always the same.

[ZazieR]

What do you need to know about 420?

I''ll respond later to the rest. I want to check something first.

[ZazieR]

I commented on multiple posts at the same time, by quoting two things from all those posts with which I agreed. But I only didn''t put them in quote tags >.<
And I think ckool is newbtown.

That''s what that post is saying.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I checked what I wanted to check.

Ckool

, the way you are playing this game, with which of the two previous games of yours can you see the most similarities and why?

[ZazieR]

Zazie- Mafia trying to wipe out other mafia faction, or a vig or SK trying to kill them, then there is no longer a doctor to just protect their scumgroup.

I thought I had commented on both of them. Ckool seems to attempt to scumhunt but give up when pressure was put on him. MM seemed to still scumhunt even when people questioned a few of his posts. I thought I had said MM was IIoA too, and found him suspicious because of that.

I see ckool's posting as scummy for his willingness to give up scumhunting, mostly. It seems that if he was actually pro-town, he wouldn't stop scumhunting, and wouldn't cave under pressure. What does post 420 mean?

I want more elaboration on the second paragraph. In my timezone, you posted an analysation of each player with more than 5 posts on the same day as the post in which you see ckool as most scummy. (Both on monday, the 15th) When looking at ckool''s posts, he only made one post in between those. The list of players of whom he wanted to hear more.
So elaborate why the change.
Also, you noted MM as newbtown, possibly newbscum, for the same reasons as why you saw ckool as most scummy. So I''d like to hear why you could see one as newbtown, but not the other at that point.

[ZazieR]

While looking over fallen''s posts in ISO, I also saw something I want

MM

to explain.

To be honest newbie behavior shouldnt be excused. Id rather lynch a newbie townie then be beaten by a newbie behaving scum. Im a little bit suspicious of you partly writing me off as newbie in some aspects.

So explain why you with-hold your vote on ckool at the moment you thought he was newbtown.

[ZazieR]

@Wicked

I had no issues with post 268, and found this part very interesting:

Third, if Mastin was the talk of the day then why just ask for more people to comment on him, why not raise some new questions?

But then came this:

And finally... you used "lol" even after it was specifically mentioned as a scum tell in this game.

Explain this comment now.

Why do you find these posts interesting? I don't see the relation, but there is probably something I'm missing.

The first was the interesting one, as I hadn''t thought about it yet.
The second quote was pointed out, because if it was serious, I''d have seen it as scummy.
There''s no relationship between the two.

I'm not the one accusing you of piggy-back-riding. I am sort of defending you.

I only responded to show that a ''defence'' isn''t needed as I didn''t do what I was accused off.

[ZazieR]

While looking over fallen''s posts in ISO, I also saw something I want

MM

to explain.

To be honest newbie behavior shouldnt be excused. Id rather lynch a newbie townie then be beaten by a newbie behaving scum. Im a little bit suspicious of you partly writing me off as newbie in some aspects.

So explain why you with-hold your vote on ckool at the moment you thought he was newbtown.

Right now id rather have pressure on haykey and look at Ckool next few posts with minimal pressure and then add pressure as needed

Whay do you want to gain by pressuring one of them?
And why say that you want to pressure as it takes the effect away.

[ZazieR]

Also, a note. I''m now officially not a Mudkip LURVER anymore. Mudkips don''t support Policy lynches, but due to a recent completed game, I actually support one. So until mudkips support policy lynches, this will be my last post mentioning one of them.
Bye Bye Mudkips

(Kise, mention it, and I''ll put up an image for you *glare*)

[ZazieR]

Would lynching somebody for not playing the way they play when they are town fall into the category of a policy lynch?

No, it would be a lynch based upon meta reasons.

Just a question. Is iamausername the kind of mod that would include strange roles? Is he the kind of mod that would try to screw with our minds?

Well, it''s a large normal. So I don''t think it''s allowed.

[ZazieR]

@Lowell

Have you read the part in which Kublai states that he doesn''t know if he''s a miller or a death miller? If so, what are your thoughts about it?

[ZazieR]

Death miller is a miller who turns up as scum when killed.
I''ve already explained why I think he''s more likely scum for that, so I want to see your response to that after Kublai has responded.

[ZazieR]

While looking over fallen''s posts in ISO, I also saw something I want

MM

to explain.

To be honest newbie behavior shouldnt be excused. Id rather lynch a newbie townie then be beaten by a newbie behaving scum. Im a little bit suspicious of you partly writing me off as newbie in some aspects.

So explain why you with-hold your vote on ckool at the moment you thought he was newbtown.

Right now id rather have pressure on haykey and look at Ckool next few posts with minimal pressure and then add pressure as needed

What do you want to gain by pressuring one of them?

And why say that you want to pressure as it takes the effect away.

well you asked i answered

Even if I hadn''t asked, you had already said it indirectly in the post in which you voted. So why did you do so?
And can you answer the bolded as well?

[ZazieR]

Also, what did the mod say about your question you said you''d ask him?

He re-sent my role PM.

What question did you ask him?

I asked who you thought killed Konowa. You said that you think that the Cerulean mafia didn''t kill him. But for other killing roles, you didn''t know.
Yet, in the quote of which I accuse you slip, you''re stating that a vig did it without adding a word that can show a sign of possibility, aka ''can'', ''possibly'', etc.
Yet, you even considered that the third kill could have been from a third scum team. So for somebody who states that he doesn''t know, you''re very certain that a vig did it. And that''s only possible in one way as I''ve already said.

You're totally barking up the wrong tree. As I said before: I asked ckool5000 why he thought "Scenario A" happened and not "Scenario B".

Your accusation of me making a scum-slip doesn't even make sense anyways. There are obviously three killing roles. If I was a non-vig killing role, then how would I

know

it was the vig and not the other killer? And if I were the vig, then why would I claim miller?

Because the Ceruleans didn''t make the kill. Which leaves only two killing roles which could have done so. For somebody who doesn''t want to discuss who could have done so, it''s rather strange that you''d say that we have a lucky vig.
This to me makes only sense to say when you know it was the vig, which is only possible if you are the vig or SK/part of second scum team. As you claimed miller, you can''t be the vig. Leaving SK/member of the second scum team.

Also, how come you didn''t have anything to say about the points I brought up against your IRC ''paranoia'' and your argument against me regarding ckool''s post?

[ZazieR]

@MM

So how does this put pressure on somebody:

Vote Hayker

I dont want a lynch on him now but you definitely deserve a vote for telling a lie.

And you still haven''t answered why you''d say that your vote was for pressure when that would take away the possible pressure your vote could have had.

[ZazieR]

@MM

So how does this put pressure on somebody:

Vote Hayker

I dont want a lynch on him now but you definitely deserve a vote for telling a lie.

And you still haven''t answered why you''d say that your vote was for pressure when that would take away the possible pressure your vote could have had.

I said it was pressure

because i was worried people would take it the wrong way and say I was being too aggressive.

Worried? Please elaborate why you should worry about this.

[ZazieR]

That doesn''t explain why you should worry about it. It explains why you worried about it. So now elaborate why you should worry.

[ZazieR]

And also what do you mean when you guys are talking about metas?

It''s indeed playstyle. When you vote for meta reasons, you compare his playstyle in one game with the way he played in different games. If it''s different than the games in which he was town, it''s likely he''s scum in this game. Or if it''s the same in which he was scum, he''s likely scum.

[ZazieR]

@ckool

Is post 493 all you have to say towards post 489?

[ZazieR]

That doesn''t explain why you should worry about it. It explains why you worried about it. So now elaborate why you should worry.

I said why i worried and thats why I worried

And I asked for the reason why you

should

worry. Because you''ve given me the impression that you are scared that others will see you as suspicious. That''s something scum think off.

[ZazieR]

Hokay so.

My "coaching" wasn't intended as it was. t was intended to show that I suspect ckool. Maybe subtlety shouldn't be used by me anymore...no one ever seems to pick up on the meaning.

Why do you suspect ckool? As you only addressed him once before this post.

[ZazieR]

Zaz', are you one of the persons who suspected ckool? I could be wrong. And I'm just asking for personal reference.

As already said, I see him as newbtown. So no, I don''t suspect him.

[ZazieR]

Does that mean you'll dismiss every potential scumslip of his and charge it to him being newb? What if he was newbscum; have you considered that as well?

No, I won''t. But as long as my gut says he''s newbtown, I''ll count on that.
And yes, I''ve considered he could be newbscum, but my gut says he''s newbtown. And I trust my gut on this.

Why are you so interested in hearing this?

[ZazieR]

As for rofl telling me to convince him to vote for johnny over mastin in the next few posts. I do not believe I should need too. Not because it is obvious that johnny is mafia, but because you should vote for whoever YOU think you should vote for. Not because of what other people think, I stand by this belief in mafia, because..well....it just makese logical sense. It's just dumb to be wrong off of other peoples thoughts.(Assuming the thoughts are wrong, they could be right)

Uhm, no. If you think somebody is scum, you try to convince others to vote that player in order to get his lynch. Give me reasons why you believe otherwise.

I'm not saying don't vote me because I'm a noob though. Do not think that, if you suspect me, vote by all means. It wont be a heavy loss for town anyways, I'd be a better lynch than most maybe mafs right now.

Don''t like this.
Especially as you seem to respond more to those posts aimed at you, than posts which you see as scummy. Why is that?

Also what do you people think of Johnny's sudden leaving at pressure on him? This could imply scummish behavior, but I don't consider that a scum tell really. Mostly because I have already seen 3 different ocasions here where the town that left was leaving because of life. They were still lynch in the end though.

Not a scumtell.

[ZazieR]

I'm researching.

Exactly how small/big is this gut of yours?

What do you mean with this question?

[ZazieR]

Fallen

, what''s up with the sudden change in content?

[ZazieR]

Rephrase: On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of this 'gut feeling' makes you trust ckool, with 1 being untrusting & 10 being highly trusting of him.

I''d say an 8, as I trust my gut on this subject.

[ZazieR]

FoS: ckool

In case I haven't done that already.

You FoS''ed than HoS''ed and now FoS''ed, so I''m pretty sure you have done it already >.<

[ZazieR]

I said it was pressure

because i was worried people would take it the wrong way and say I was being too aggressive.

If people thought I was scum which is what i was concerned about

my opinion on others would be ignored

ORLY?

[ZazieR]

Well, you had on thursday my time that huge argument against ckool. The next day you explained something I asked, and you asked me to explain something.
But ever since then, you''ve explained terms and your opinion if the mod was allowed to put in any strange roles. You went a lot to the background.
Which is quite strange to me when ckool is getting mentioned more and more.

Also, this:

Zazie- Mafia trying to wipe out other mafia faction, or a vig or SK trying to kill them, then there is no longer a doctor to just protect their scumgroup.

I thought I had commented on both of them. Ckool seems to attempt to scumhunt but give up when pressure was put on him. MM seemed to still scumhunt even when people questioned a few of his posts. I thought I had said MM was IIoA too, and found him suspicious because of that.

I see ckool's posting as scummy for his willingness to give up scumhunting, mostly. It seems that if he was actually pro-town, he wouldn't stop scumhunting, and wouldn't cave under pressure. What does post 420 mean?

I want more elaboration on the second paragraph. In my timezone, you posted an analysation of each player with more than 5 posts on the same day as the post in which you see ckool as most scummy. (Both on monday, the 15th) When looking at ckool''s posts, he only made one post in between those. The list of players of whom he wanted to hear more.
So elaborate why the change.
Also, you noted MM as newbtown, possibly newbscum, for the same reasons as why you saw ckool as most scummy. So I''d like to hear why you could see one as newbtown, but not the other at that point.

[ZazieR]

@ckool

Is post 493 all you have to say towards post 489?

Um... I guess... Oh wait, here's something. Somebody asked why I wasn't "rejoicing about a lucky vig", and now somebody is saying I committed a scum-tell doing so!

Waiting to here from those accusing ckool of the ''yay, mafia (doc) died''-tell to respond to this.

[ZazieR]

Though ckool, what''s your reason for not responding to the other stuff that was brought up in post 489 (and 494 for that matter)?

[ZazieR]

OMG, Mastin got prodded ?!
Explain Mastin.

[ZazieR]

Though ckool, what''s your reason for not responding to the other stuff that was brought up in post 489 (and 494 for that matter)?

(For 494) I dunno... I guess I got tired of answering practically the same statements that different people say... or something... Plus, there wasn't any actual question towards me, and since I had already done plenty of responding to similar things... Well... You get the point.... Or maybe I just missed it... Who knows?...

(For 489) I was adressing the whole post during the second part of my response.

^^town

[ZazieR]

What do you need to know regarding the last sentence?

Also,

Mod

- am I allowed to link CKD to two ongoing games which might be worse to replace into?

[ZazieR]

Well, it was first mentioned in a post from Kise here as he saw it once as a neutral role.
After that, I mentioned death miller as I asked if he was a death miller or a miller for clarification here

[ZazieR]

Lol, you called him a dead miller. Cute.

You want cute, I''ll give you cute! DIE!!!

[ZazieR]

The mod knows why I've been busy.

Well, the rain only stopped you from posting for one day
I know that you play more with Kevin than with me Explain why! Or the girl on the image I posted will hunt you down before she hunts down Kise!

[ZazieR]

@Redith: I thinking you're skimming. Reply to this to prove you aren't.

You have to trust people in mafia games. :3
I read, it's just there is nothing for me to contribute at this point.
I already FoS'ed Empking, there is no particular reason, just a gut feeling.
And yeah, I'm not used to such large mafia games.
By large I mean time periods. So i'm here reading your posts, not skimming. Just have nothing to say for now.

Can''t you post some opinions? The main discussed players are:
Rotten, Kublai, Hayker, Mastin and ckool

Next post, you have at least of those your opinions posted.

[ZazieR]

I'll buy that. I find myself not wanting to butt in when two people are debating. I only interject when I think one is scummy. Otherwise, I view it as an innocent arguing with an innocent... until proven guilty.

Yet, me and Kublai are discussing. You have stated that you think Kublai is scummy. So why aren''t you butting into this discussion?

[ZazieR]

Also, what did the mod say about your question you said you''d ask him?

He re-sent my role PM.

What question did you ask him?

I asked if he could clarify what kind of miller I was (i.e. do I turn up as scum upon death in addition to showing up scum in investigations).

So you asked the mod what kind of miller you are, and the mod sends you the same role PM, according to you? Makes a lot of sense

Also, how come you didn''t have anything to say about the points I brought up against your IRC ''paranoia'' and your argument against me regarding ckool''s post?

Because you're not even bothering to ask questions anymore. You're just insisting on the scummiest possible explanation of events to try to frame me. I could state that I liked water and you'd counter that I was anti-Town because towns aren't built in water.

If you were asking probing questions in good faith, then I'd answer. But I gain nothing by aiding you conjure up scummy artifical realities.

Not responding to the case against him, because he''s caught scum, is definitly noted.

[ZazieR]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

[ZazieR]

Can you please explain your post ckool? I don't understand what you are saying

Also, do you think now that Kublai is more likely to be town, or not? Because you're saying both:

I'm starting to think less and less that Kublai is town.

The point is, I'm starting to suspect Kublai a little lesser

[ZazieR]

Can you please explain your post ckool? I don't understand what you are saying

Translation: "ZazieR is doing a bang-up job framing Kublai, but when I think about it logically, there's no way he's actually scum."

Then address finally my accusations against you.

[ZazieR]

Oh, I screwed up the first part. I meant less and less that Kublai is

scum

.

What I was saying was

1. I find it odd how nobody's thinking that any of your posts are scummy, even though you have so many in such a short timespan (because whenever I post a lot, I get foses at least).

2. I'm thinking that if Kublai is scum, he would've gone with death miller when someone asked... But I can't really be 100% sure of it, which is why my vote is still on him.

I've seen two scum claim miller in previous games:
here and here

I think they claim miller as death miller is very unlikely to have in a game.

[ZazieR]

That's not what I said at all. Ckool said that it seems more likely that scum would claim death miller, instead of miller. I show him two games in which scum did claim miller.
You are twisting my words and you're not addressing your case as you are caught scum.

And thanks for the title, but I'm already the Dramaqueen and therefore can't have a different title

[ZazieR]

The kublai thing is a sideshow.

Zazie has not convinced me why I should care what kind of miller KK might be.

As if your player-outguessing has convinced me
It's the fact that he's caught in a lie. That doesn't make you care?

[ZazieR]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

The only thing I've seen from him that's scummy is the Death miller/miller thing.

The rest of his play looks rather pro-town to me, I just see no reason to see him as scum.
I feel there are scummier people about.

The death miller/miller thing shows that he's caught in a lie. You do not find this lie vote worthy?

[ZazieR]

Hey guys i've been rereading the game, and I have agreed to jump on the Johnny Rotten wagon.

vote Johnny Rotten

Also

V/LA Wednesday till Friday

Band wagoning much?
Elaborate on your reason why you are voting him.

[ZazieR]

Hey everyone,

Just letting you know I'm replacing in and will try and read up as soon as possible (probably tonight and tomorrow, but could be a bit longer depending on my work schedule). I see I'm the leading wagon at the moment...I'll try to respond to accusations against my predecessor if I can.

Stalkerish much?
Hi, btw

[ZazieR]

Heh, you weren't playing much in the last couple games we were together, so I had to track you down somwhere where you're talking a lot.

*glare*
Thanks for reminding me...
Time to start a list >.<

[ZazieR]

Hey guys i've been rereading the game, and I have agreed to jump on the Johnny Rotten wagon.

vote Johnny Rotten

Also

V/LA Wednesday till Friday

Band wagoning much?
Elaborate on your reason why you are voting him.

EBWOP
Any other opinions?

[ZazieR]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

The only thing I've seen from him that's scummy is the Death miller/miller thing.

The rest of his play looks rather pro-town to me, I just see no reason to see him as scum.
I feel there are scummier people about.

The death miller/miller thing shows that he's caught in a lie. You do not find this lie vote worthy?

He was caught in a lie how? By saying he wasn't sure what he was and would ask the mod?

I don't see that as a lie.

see this

[ZazieR]

What speculation?

[ZazieR]

See the link in post 590.
Perhaps that will show you how scummy Kublai is.

[ZazieR]

i'm not lurking, i'm just really uninterested in posting

we're still not lynching the claimed miller, sorry zaz

No Bunny Power ?

And have you looked at the points against Kublai?

[ZazieR]

general malaise and apathy i would say

Don''t use difficult words in a game which includes a blonde Dutch girl >.<

[ZazieR]

He's saying he doesn't care to comment on anything, so he's.... ACTIVE LURKING?!?!?!?!

No Rofl will come back! This would be my first game with him in which I am active, and Rofl won''t let this moment go away! How can you say something like this about him?!
Though I''d also like to hear something from him.

[ZazieR]

In other news, I'm not sure why people are ignoring Kublai and the giant red scum arrow pointing to his head. Just saying.

Fixed for you.

[ZazieR]

unvote, vote hayker

FA is a much better lynch, but we need more rival bandwagons. KK is still a bad move, and VP just seems lazy more than scummy.

Kublai is caught scum, and you think it''s a bad move?
(And fixed, as VP replaced Rotten)

[ZazieR]

I still don't see how he's caught scum. Him not knowing what kind of miller he is doesn't do anything for me.

See this

[ZazieR]

That's not what I said at all. Ckool said that it seems more likely that scum would claim death miller, instead of miller. I show him two games in which scum did claim miller.
You are twisting my words and you're not addressing your case as you are caught scum.

Really? Your argument is that it happened somewhere before, so it must be happening again. Do I really have to pull out a sac of links showing Millers claiming Miller, or will you agree that you've made a stupid argument and move on?

Wrong. And once again, twisting of words. Ckool said that he thinks it would be more likely for scum to claim death miller, instead of miller. So I showed him examples that this isn''t always the case.
Show me where I''ve according to you said that because scum has claimed miller before, that that''s the case here.

This would be my first game with him in which I am active, and Rofl won''t let this moment go away! How can you say something like this about him?!

Yeah, "active" is the under-statement of the century. Out of the 615 posts in this game so far, you've made 175. That's ~28% of the game. Keep in mind that you are only ~5% of the active game population. If that doesn't seriously suggest that you're trying to railroad the town's opinion against me (despite the fact that nobody really buying into your crap), then I don't know what does.

Fos: ZazieR

Are you saying here that I''m scummy for posting much?
It seems somebody is out of arguments and is now reaching.

[ZazieR]

FA is a much better lynch

I agree. I had the feeling he was scum long ago, but he hasn't done much of anything to help me build a case against him.

You did? :

Why the votes on fallen & KK?

[ZazieR]

Oh, and Mastin, where are you???

[ZazieR]

I remember it now.

Though it doesn''t explain that Mastin is still posting in other games >.<

[ZazieR]

Which is why I quote to what I respond. It makes it easier to look in ISO

[ZazieR]

Kise can you just give me a bulletpoint list of suspicions against M. Rotten?

In case you have forgotten

[ZazieR]

general malaise and apathy i would say

Ahem, can someone answer my question from earlier?... In words I can understand?

As already said, I don''t know >.<
What I do know is that Mastin''s ''tell'' now applies to himself:

since nobody's here yet.

You're here. I'm here. Kise is lurking (is on the list of players here, but not posting here). Yea, that's somebody at least.

[ZazieR]

Ah, don''t worry SC. For some reason, Mastin later becomes more inactive.
And he''s getting already a title, as he''s stated in this game

[ZazieR]

The JR wagon is useless when there is no JR. I was voting him to get him to talk more but with him gone there is no reason for this. I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Kublai Khan.

KK responses to Zaz's questioning make's this an easy decision. Why would a resent PM clarify his role if he already had it?

My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me. But if you insist, I'll double check with iamausername.

Also, what did the mod say about your question you said you''d ask him?

He re-sent my role PM.

What question did you ask him?

I asked if he could clarify what kind of miller I was (i.e. do I turn up as scum upon death in addition to showing up scum in investigations).

The first quote shows that KK already had the PM, the second shows that the answer to the question(will I turn up as scum at death?) was already in the role PM. If this was true then there would have been no need to ask for more information.

<3 you
I hadn''t even thought of the last part.
And I just checked. Kublai indeed says this:

I'm a regular Emerald Miller. I show up as scum on Investigations, but will be revealed as town after death.

Lynch please.

[ZazieR]

good god this game is flying..I trying to get caught up to the now...not sure why people are voting the claimed miller..something must have happened to cause that.

See this and the above post. These should show that he''s obv fake-claiming and that''s why he''s getting votes.

[ZazieR]

@ckool - Do you think it was not best for Khan to claim miller early in the game if he really was miller? What would you have done if you were miller?

*shrugs* I dunno. If I was miller, I would've looked up what to do, and since that's apparently claim early... well... yeah....

I mean, if Khan was town-ish, cops wouldn't really investigate him, but he's acting pretty scummy in some people's eyes... But they probably got interested at looking closer at his posts

because

he claimed, so I can't be too sure of anything right now...

Why are you asking me this question?

Then why are you voting him?

[ZazieR]

I just found something in a thread from another old game. Somebody (a mafia) was posting their mafia talk in the night and what was going through their heads during the day, and one of the things going through their head was:
"Don't pull a Kublai Khan and freak out about the fact that you're confirmed scum in the eyes of two players"

Erm... Don't some of you think for certain that he's scum?... And has he freaked out yet?.....

Link?
And if you mean with ''freaking out'' attacking the players who are attacking you with valid reasons, then yes, he''s freaking out.
But to answer this question, I need to see what happened in that game they were talking about.

[ZazieR]

Ok, first let me address the "miller" issue. Kublai claimed miller and there is nothing more to worry about here really. As rofl (I believe) said, it will sort itself out long before the game is over. Zazier, you're going way overboard to try and make him look scummy when he really hasn't done anything scummy. Miller vs. Death Miller is a stupid argument and he never really "lied" about anything. Time to get over it and move on.

Then show how this isn''t an obv fake-claim.

[ZazieR]

If you panic under pressure it leads someone to believe that they have a reason to be worried about a lynch.

And statements like these don''t give the impression that somebody is worried about their lynch:

I said it was pressure because i was worried people would take it the wrong way and say I was being too aggressive.

I was trying to find out how what peoples opinions were on the miller thing and if it was worth pursuing. If everyone agreed it was not going to change anything then I wasnt going to wast peoples time with speculation on it.

I''m not sold with VP''s case, but this is one point I do agree with.

[ZazieR]

Wow VP. I've never really thought of MafiaMann as that suspicious until now...

FoS: MafiaMann

Reasons?

Well, actually, there's one thing I disagree on VP:

Another good point against MM comes in 509:

I said it was pressure because i was worried people would take it the wrong way and say I was being too aggressive.

As Zazie pointed out, this is ridiculous. You shouldn't be worried about people taking it the wrong way or seeing you as scummy UNLESS YOU'RE SCUM.

But don't townies, just like how you said how townies can get frustrated too, also want to avoid being lynched? Unless it brings the town a lot of info or they're a hated townie or something, townies want to not look scummy, so that way people can focus on the people who's actually the probable scum. Townies, just like the mafia, don't really like when people take things the wrong way... In fact, it sort of seems like you're trying to make MM's statement seem weaker than it was!... or something...

But, yeah, whatever. You had lots of good points, and now that I think of it, I'm not 100% sure why I'm still voting for Kublai...

Town wins when all scum are caught even if you as townie are dead. Scum wins when they are alive at the end of the game.
This is why it''s scummy.

[ZazieR]

You suspected me?

Why the '':shock:''?

[ZazieR]

Posting for length. That's through 17. (...But I have up to 27?!? Oh, boy. I'm going to have some fun. )

I''ll comment when you''re completely done.
Let me know when that is >.<

[ZazieR]

Very happy with VPs first post. His take on the miller situation is well put (Zazie's pursuit of it looks worse than KKs response to said pursuit), as is his take on mastin's post-walls of idiocy.

Somebody has been caught with not reading the topic
Will comment some other time towards the bigger posts.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
And you still haven''t responded to the Kublai case.
Have you actually read it?

[ZazieR]

Are you saying here that I''m scummy for posting much?
It seems somebody is out of arguments and is now reaching.

Reading comprehension. Try it. I'm saying that you're attempting to steer the game towards a paticular target, logic be damned.

...

Are you a Lyncher by any chance?

Are you saying that I''m using wrong logic? Now that''s funny. Because so far, you''ve only one argument against me left of the all the wrong logic you''ve used. Which isn''t even a valid argument as I have many posts, because I respond to each post with only one post. Otherwise, I''d have the same length post as Mastin. Yet, I''m the only one you accuse of this. Now, it''s your turn to respond to my arguments against you, as you have only ignored them.
And no, I''m not a lyncher.

The JR wagon is useless when there is no JR. I was voting him to get him to talk more but with him gone there is no reason for this. I'm going to Unvote. Vote: Kublai Khan. KK responses to Zaz's questioning make's this an easy decision. Why would a resent PM clarify his role if he already had it?
Kublai Khan wrote:
My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me. But if you insist, I'll double check with iamausername.

The first quote shows that KK already had the PM, the second shows that the answer to the question(will I turn up as scum at death?) was already in the role PM. If this was true then there would have been no need to ask for more information.

WTF? Look. I got a role PM of miller. (Sorry, EMERALD MILLER). It didn't list anything beyond the basic definition of what a miller was. ZazieR and Mastin jumped on and demanded more information than I had ("What kind of Miller?!"). So I PMed iamausername to ask for more detail and in his inscrutable wisdom he re-sent the PM I had already gotten. Presumably this means that whatever information I am to know is all that I can and will be given. The PM says nothing about death millership, so I interpret iamausername's response to be "No, don't worry about it".

Of course that hasn't stopped ZazieR and Mastin from screaming "scumslip!" loudly and often in some sort of bizarre belief that repitition creates truth. (Note: Politicians and Pundits do the same thing.) Trying to create an artificial reality is a scum-tell.

Demanded?! Check back. I asked for clarification.
And it was a ''scumslip'', because the first reason you''ve given for doubting if you''re miller or death miller, which is strangely absent in this explanation, didn''t make sense as I already stated.
And therefore, this is an obv fake-claim.
The scumslip was about something else. Another argument you''ve ignored.

[ZazieR]

I don't see that as a lie.

see this

Where's the lie in this post? Maybe I'm blind, are you reffering to the IRC thing?

Yes, as that was his claimed reason for being confused.

[ZazieR]

Ok, update can finally come tomorrow.
So when you see that there have been a lot of new pages, you'll know that I've been busy >.<

[ZazieR]

Ok, I''ll be starting my update.
Though, when skimming, I saw a lot of long posts >.< So it might take a while before I''m fully done.

[ZazieR]

Due to my own psychological beliefs (that any truly pro-town player won't have a sudden turnaround on opinions on any person, without the influence of power roles)

Should I show you some of my past games ?

The whole ckool-Hayker-FA-etc. interaction is worthy of looking at. I believe ckool is town (ckool comes off of the exchange looking like newbtown, but not scum), though. Hayker, not so positive on (Hayker is a large suspect of mine, in fact). Fallen Angel neither looks like town nor scum in that exchange, and Mafia comes out of it feeling just...wrong. (Call it gut if you will. It's grown on me. )

Are all these opinions regarding their interaction based upon gut?

Never. However, this has to be at least the fifth or so game where it has been suggested. One of the five, I was later lynched, but it was due to a, umm, different kind of policy lynch. (Role, not player)

Ok, this is what I was wondering about. Either you''re scum''s favorite policy lynch ever, or there were some of these started by town. So why do you think that Johnny is scum pushing for a policy lynch, and not town?
Also, which of the other players upon your wagon give you the impression that they are scum and why?

(Note: It might even take me more time as I have to do a chore soon which might take a while. So I''m not sure if I can get uptodate today.)