Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[MafiaMann]

Hey, aren't I posting a bunch?... It may not be the best posts, but at least I'm trying.

The way that last post sounded i thought you were going to begin holding back glad to hear that is not the case.

[ckool5000]

Why are you glad that it's not the case?

[fallen angel]

Hey, aren't I posting a bunch?... It may not be the best posts, but at least I'm trying.

Quantity =/= Quality. Active lurkers can still post a ton and be unhelpful. Mastin and Zazie (for the most part) have tons of posts with lots of content. If you can't post a ton, that's okay, but make them worthwhile, not just, "Hi, checking in, don't replace me." Those do nothing for us.

[fallen angel]

@Mastin- It's still only D1.

[ckool5000]

If you can't post a ton, that's okay, but make them worthwhile, not just, "Hi, checking in, don't replace me." Those do nothing for us.

Can you point to a single "checking in" post that I've made, or anything like that?

[ckool5000]

Look, all I wanted to point out was that I'm not very good with huge content posts. I post whatever the first couple of things that come to mind that might benefit the town. I hold back a little bit... you know, so that it's not just a bunch of random junk, but I try.

[fallen angel]

If you can't post a ton, that's okay, but make them worthwhile, not just, "Hi, checking in, don't replace me." Those do nothing for us.

Can you point to a single "checking in" post that I've made, or anything like that?

Not saying that you did, I'm just saying don't in the future, even if large posts are hard. Do small ones. Point out suspicions. We don't all have to have extremely long posts.

[ckool5000]

Not saying that you did, I'm just saying don't in the future, even if large posts are hard. Do small ones. Point out suspicions. We don't all have to have extremely long posts.

....Okay!

[ckool5000]

Wow... I screwed up the quote on that...

[reveillark]

FoS: ckool5000

1.) "yay scum doctor is dead" post. I think Mastin went over this at one point. (granted i think at this point it would have been hard for mastin to NOT mention something)

2.) saying that "lol" is a scumtell. complete nonsense.

3.) while speculating about which groups/people would have targeted which people...

And how is it WIFOM? The mafia would want to keep an easily lynchable person in the game. Case closed.

seems waaaay too sure of his analysis. it could have easily been WIFOM or a mafia/SK using random.org to pick a target.

4.) Calling people lurkers in a game with 10+ pages that started less than 24 hours ago...people have lives/work/are slow readers.

HoS: Johnny Rotten

1.) Wanting to lynch Mastin on playstyle rather than post content or any evidence at all. Especially since mastin's been one of the most active scum hunters.

2.) Saying that voting was a possible scumtell based on game phase. absurd.

3.)

BTW, I feel as though I am neglecting to answer a question posed to me earlier.....and to be honest, I am too lazy right now to go looking for it. So, if it is your question that I missed, please re-post, or direct me to the original one, and I will be happy to!

saying he's too lazy to look for questions posed to him also means he's too lazy to go back and look at posts for scum tells. combined with 1 means he's more concerned about eliminating the player he is least fond of more than the scum.

Concerning the miller claim:

no reason to lynch him, at least early on. it's exactly what an actual miller should have done. the most interesting part is basically rofl's reaction, when he says kublai is as good as confirmed town. i have the idea he basically said this as an attempt to draw out people who disagree and think the claim was scummy, otherwise that assumption doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i know rofl made a post about the drawbacks of scum claiming miller, but it assumes that kublai would have thought about all those factors as scum and therefore not thought it was a good idea.

basically i agree with the majority - the claim itself is a nulltell.

Concerning Mastin's posting:

He makes it incredibly hard to catch up if you miss anything.

[ckool5000]

FoS: ckool5000

Yep, that proves it. The more I post, the more of an idiot I look.

[Kublai Khan]

@ckool5000 (252): The game may be 11 pages, but it's only 2 days old. They aren't lurking. They're catching up. You're engaging in fake scum-hunting.

It seems like poor practice to not PM the mod for clarification on what type of miller you are.

Please do so now.

I'm a regular Emerald Miller. I show up as scum on Investigations, but will be revealed as town after death.

Mind explaining how your role, flavor-wise, would fit into this game?

I don't understand the question. The flavor is that the role is called "Emerald Miller". I guess it fits into the game because it makes sense for an Emerald Miller to live in Emerald City. (This is a pretty dumb question. Am I missing something special?)

Your words, were, essentially, "why didn't you consider the possibility that we have a really lucky vig?"

There are many possible scenarios.
You called him out for assuming one, and then seemed to assume a scenario yourself.
When other options clearly exist.
This is what needs explaining.

Dude, I wasn't going to waste my time listing every possible alternative scenario and sequentially ask why he didn't pick each one. I picked the most radically extreme opposite example from his assumption and went with that.

"why didn't you consider the possibility that we have a really lucky vig?" does not equal "I think we had a lucky vig, how about you?" no matter how hard you try to twist my words.

Eh, remind me what your questions were, again?

I asked 4 questions about metaing. You put smileys on half the answers, so I assume you were giving joking sarcastic answers, then you refused to explain yourself. You've mentioned several times that you're no longer joking around and that you're scum-hunting, but it still feels like you're not taking the game seriously.

...Because I'm different from most players.
Why else?
Are you really surprised by this very true response?
Really, I'm different. Most things like that don't apply to me.

Hypocrisy is kinda a big scum-tell. Your posting style may be unique, but you're just as human as the rest of us. And being human means that you commit tells as scum.

[ckool5000]

@ckool5000 (252): The game may be 11 pages, but it's only 2 days old. They aren't lurking. They're catching up. You're engaging in fake scum-hunting.

1. Well okay then... Some of them said they'd catch up near the start of the game... Just forget I ever said it.

2. No... I'm just trying to get some more opinions in here.

[Kise]

Johnny Rotten- Waiting for his big post, but the case Kise put on him seems really weak. Not enough posts for a guess at alignment.
Kise- Weak vote on JR. Tried to put up a reason for it, and failed. Possible softclaim of a killing role, then backtracks. Neutral leaning towards scummy.

Why so much defense of JR? My name honestly did not have to be brought up in order to save-face for JR (you later say I'm leaning towards the scummy side, which makes it seem like I'm scum attacking a townie, know what I mean?).

So, what your basically saying is, my assumptions were wrong. LOL

Uh oh, ckool. He ell-o-ell'd!

KK's post here is rather interesting. Zazie got caught slipping and she still has a chance to break my heart.. my achey-breaky heart. I would encourage her to explain/comment on Khan's exposure of her.

At the very least, Kublai Khan was being inconsistent--he called two people out for debating what killed who, and then goes off to speculate that the mafia doctor kill was a really lucky vig.

I'll let KK explain it though

Agreed. I want this as well.

Me third.

I don't really mind this speculation on my "claim." If anyone wants to ask me about it, shoot away. I won't shout "ROLEFISHER" or anything.. promise.. Khan is still cool as far as I'm concerned. He did sorta rolefish by asking me whether I'm a killer, but that's understandable. My post was quite iffy and possibly left the door open for speculation/WIFOM. Although there's not much you can get out of whether or not I am a killer, ask away if you feel you must.

However[!], I do (personally) think that anyone asking, "Hey, do you guys think another mafia did the 3rd kill or an SK?," is trying to bait for something.. For instance, if someone here was apart of the B-mafia or another Killer and they blurted out, "Yeah I think it was the 2nd mafia" or "I think it was another vig who did this kill," that would pretty much hint to the questioner whether the answerer had something to do with the 3rd kill. None of you have to comment on this; just wanted share my thoughts.

Also, his scumhunting/attempt at it seemed more like stuff in the

Road to Rome

.

Ouch...

You definitely said leaning towards scum. Are you changing what you said initially?

No

(?)

, but I said

leaning

towards scum.

Same thing?

[ckool5000]

So, what your basically saying is, my assumptions were wrong. LOL

Uh oh, ckool. He ell-o-ell'd!

Oh Em Gee! Such a big deal! lol.

Oh no, now I ell-o-ell'd!

[fallen angel]

[...]

You definitely said leaning towards scum. Are you changing what you said initially?

No

(?)

, but I said

leaning

towards scum.

Same thing?

Not really. He says that earlier I found him scummy and now I'm recanting. I said he seemed neutral but I thought some of the stuff he did was a bit scummy. Nothing to really sway me either way. More tomorrow, going to bed now.

[Mastin]

@Mastin- It's still only D1.

Real-life days.
In fact, it's been over 48 hours since d1 started, correct? (Or was that 24? My memory sucks. :/)

Anyway,

Mod: Are prods in order?

(Or was that three days? :/)

(granted i think at this point it would have been hard for mastin to NOT mention something)

At the moment, though, I am definitely leaning towards ckool being town. His style of mostly defensive posts reminds me of some of my games. The games where I don't post a great deal, and when I do post, it's mostly defensive. Most of said games, I was town, mind you.

2.) saying that "lol" is a scumtell.

I believe I heard at least two people here agree with that tell--are they scummy as well for it?

HoS: Johnny Rotten

Why don't you vote, then?

1.) Wanting to lynch Mastin on playstyle rather than post content or any evidence at all.

Yea...this is the main point against him.

Especially since mastin's been one of the most active scum hunters.

Yup.

no reason to lynch him, at least early on. it's exactly what an actual miller should have done. the most interesting part is basically rofl's reaction, when he says kublai is as good as confirmed town. i have the idea he basically said this as an attempt to draw out people who disagree and think the claim was scummy, otherwise that assumption doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i know rofl made a post about the drawbacks of scum claiming miller, but it assumes that kublai would have thought about all those factors as scum and therefore not thought it was a good idea.

This gets a massive quote for truth.

He makes it incredibly hard to catch up if you miss anything.

Zaz does it, too!

I'm a regular Emerald Miller.

You didn't answer one of my questions--

Why didn't you immediately say you were an Emerald Miller?
You initially said just Miller.

I show up as scum on Investigations

There is not a miller around who does not. :/

but will be revealed as town after death.

Revealed as a townie, or a miller?

I don't understand the question. The flavor is that the role is called "Emerald Miller". I guess it fits into the game because it makes sense for an Emerald Miller to live in Emerald City. (This is a pretty dumb question. Am I missing something special?)

It had a purpose, involving how much flavor text you're given in your PM. (Like why you're a miller, why you came to Emerald City, etc. Standard Flavor stuff.)

Dude, I wasn't going to waste my time listing every possible alternative scenario and sequentially ask why he didn't pick each one.

You should've. At least list two possibilities, in order to make sure you're getting the point across.

I picked the most radically extreme opposite example from his assumption and went with that.

But, again, why did you only list one? Why not at least two? Sure, you don't have to do all (although I find that to be helpful), but that doesn't mean you should only do just one...

"why didn't you consider the possibility that we have a really lucky vig?" does not equal "I think we had a lucky vig, how about you?"

"why didn't you consider the possibility that we have a really lucky vig?" can have several interpretations. The most common two that come to my mind are
1: Inside knowledge. Like scum, who made another kill, and by extent, know the other kill was likely a lucky vig, in this scenario.
2: A breadcrumb to one's own role--impossible, considering how you claimed plain ol' miller.

Can you understand the interpretation of your post, now?

I asked 4 questions about metaing.

Hmm...Want me to go digging for them again?

You put smileys on half the answers

Smileys do not always equal a not-serious answer. Normally, yes, but if you want to make sure, just ask; I'll answer serious, semi-serious, or a joke.

so I assume you were giving joking sarcastic answers

Poor assumption. I assume this was not the RVS, correct?
Then it's very doubtfully a joking/sarcastic comment. (Although possible.)

then you refused to explain yourself.

You only recently brought up the point, again. I posted an answer, be it serious or joke, I'd need to see my actual response to be sure. You didn't ask for an explanation. You asked why I wasn't taking your meta questions seriously, which in turn, makes me post the answer that I did.

You've mentioned several times that you're no longer joking around and that you're scum-hunting

I am.

but it still feels like you're not taking the game seriously.

Blame Zaz.

Hypocrisy is kinda a big scum-tell.

If it were to be hypocritical, sure.

But, really, it's not.

People using my RVS comments are scummy because I am ME--I am KNOWN to do this regardless of alignment, making it a null tell. The pro-town response is to ignore my RVS posts until I declare, at the end of one of my long posts, "Okay, the RVS is over." At which point, I scum hunt.

Me using others' RVS comments is fine. They don't have their meta to support behaviors such as that.

I see no way to make that into a hypocrisy.

I'm different.
Rules such as that RVS one that is part of one of my MITs don't apply to me.

Your posting style may be unique

Enough by itself, in my opinion, to seal the deal on the difference.

but you're just as human as the rest of us.

So?
Humanity has nothing to do with what tells apply to who, and when.

And being human means that you commit tells as scum.

Yea, of course I do. But that isn't one of them.

Why so much defense of JR?

Actually, it's attacking you. The only way it's a defense is if FA's Chainsaw Defensing, a tell which, as the wiki article states, requires for either the person doing it, or the person being defended, to flip scum.

My name honestly did not have to be brought up in order to save-face for JR (you later say I'm leaning towards the scummy side, which makes it seem like I'm scum attacking a townie, know what I mean?).

Yea, I get the idea.

It's your tell, you know.

[roflcopter]

urg god damn it mastin i really don't think every individual clause of every sentence needs to be quoted separately and responded to. i'm about to retreat into my "don't explain anything i'm thinking" shell and respond to things only with votes and lists of who i'm willing to lynch.

speaking of lists of who i'm willing to lynch:
mastin
fallen angel
hayker
mafiamann

lets make it happen

[Kise]

Not that I'm trying to put you on the wagon, but how come you don't find Rotten's dialogue to be fishy?

I agree that MM is also a heavily suspicious, hence why I FoS'd him earlier. I'm waiting for bigger scum-behavior from hayker & FA, but

IGMEO

them.

[BloodCovenent]

I regret joining this game already.

Once i get caught up, i should be good. But right now, it's 3:30 am est, i just got back from the beach, and need some sleep.

[ZazieR]

ORLY? Whose evidence did I use then? Because I'm positive that I only mentioned your quote in my post which had my vote included. So explain where I did so.

ckool5000.

Wow. Thanks for posting ckool.
Vote Kublai
Obv scumslip in the quote from him that ckool just posted. Will comment more when I get at that post.

Your vote is the direct result of piggy-backing someone else's evidence. Quit pretending like I'm making things up.

Obv scum lying about his role. Note that he claims that he wasn't sure if he was a regular miller or a death miller, yet didn't ask the mod what he was.

My Role PM says Emerald Miller. I assumed that if I was a death miller (or other miller variant), then iamausername would have told me.

But if you insist

, I'll double check with iamausername.

It shows a lot. But before I explain, which role do you think killed Konowa: SK, vig or a mafia role?

I don't know. However, I strongly doubt that it was the Cerulean Mafia.

See post 140. Back then, I hadn''t seen that post of yours in which you slipped up. But due to a simulpost of me and ckool, I saw the part in which you slipped up.
Also, note that ckool didn''t mention anything about a slip-up.
So explain how I''m using his evidence.

Note the bolded. He''s trying to ''please'' me, and he apparently didn''t have any intention to double check, while he claims to haven''t been sure about his role.

Great answer So of four possible killing roles/groups you

strongly doubt

that the Cerulean mafia killed one of their own.
Can you now tell which of the possible three remaining killing roles/groups would have most likely killed Konowa?

[ZazieR]

@Post 154 by ZazieR - When I said I was going to treat Khan like an ordinary player, I meant that if he did something scummy, then I'd treat him the exact way that I would if he hadn't claimed miller.

Which I still think is weird as you believe his claim. Which means you think he''s a miller, a town-alligned player.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

I think mastins not being completely clear in everything he says. His use of sarcasm is confusing and breeds WIFOM arguments. I dont know if its scummy or the way he plays but definitely is not helpful when he isnt straight forward with the town.

So the reason why you only call out Mastin, but not me, is?
Also, in this post you mention that it could be his play (finding an excuse why it's not scummy), but in your previous post (post 171) you state that you're tired of everything is just Mastin being Mastin.
So what is it?

Im not excusing him i still want him not to

Who is ''him'' (the second one)?
If you mean Mastin, I don''t understand what you''re saying here.

[ZazieR]

My opinion on scum is maybe ckool because some of his posts dont contain much meat but I may be guilty of something similar.

Also Hayker seems to be making a lot of mistakes and some of which can misleading.

Yeah, you are guilty of something similar. This is duly noted.
And can you elaborate on your opinion of Hayker?

[ZazieR]

It's mostly just the same type of posting as ckool, IIoA, that makes it seem newbish to me.

Explain why IIOA makes ckool a suspect to you, while MM isn''t one.
And explain the difference between ckool and MM type of posting.