Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[curiouskarmadog]

will read this game, sometime this weekend.

[ckool5000]

That doesn't mean you shouldn't give up scumhunting.

Yep. That confirms it. I should just keep my mouth shut.

Your just going to stop posting because two people suspect you? Sounding to me like caught scum.

1. Nope.

2. Sounds to me like you're scum jumping on an easy opportunity.

[fallen angel]

You think I'm scum because I'm voting/going after the person who I think is scummy? OMGUSy. Definitely sounding like scum.

[MafiaMann]

That doesn't mean you shouldn't give up scumhunting.

Yep. That confirms it. I should just keep my mouth shut.

Your just going to stop posting because two people suspect you? Sounding to me like caught scum.

1. Nope.

2. Sounds to me like you're scum jumping on an easy opportunity.

No you are definitely acting scummy

[curiouskarmadog]

oh and

Unvote

if I need to

[curiouskarmadog]

sry to double post...had a little time started to read...right off the fucking bat, Mastin's spam is hard to read...too much....have a feeling that this is going to be a long read.

hope the whole game is not like this

[fallen angel]

Welcome curiouskarmadog. Don't worry, Mastin lets up a bit later. Speaking of which, where is Mastin?

[Namttam]

Yes, I'd also like if someone could summarize the arguments against JR. I don't remember reading anything from him that seemed blatantly scummy, but I guess I might be forgetting something.

I'm going to

Unvote. Vote: Johnny Rotten

. First, for not pulling the trigger and voting for Mastin. Second, for suggesting that lynching a townie is a good thing for a town. It makes much more sense to be scum hunting and lynching the most suspicious players instead of the most distracting. Third, if Mastin was the talk of the day then why just ask for more people to comment on him, why not raise some new questions? Fourth, suggesting voting is a scum tell, you specify the early stages of the game but I think that doesn't make the statement anymore valid.

(This rendition leaves off the inclusion of the "lol" tell)

@Hayker- I'm curious why you ignored this post and I had to answer the question.

[Achilles]

@ Kublai Khan (376) - At that point I did not have suspicions other then those who currently have votes.

Currently, I'm seeing ckool5000 more and more as scum. I felt 377 was just him trying to post something worthwhile, but 390 and subsequent posts seemed like scumtell.

[Achilles]

@ Namttam (407) - I believe I addressed that post when I posted my first evaluation after reading the thread. 1st reason is weak because that is Mastin's meta and I believe the consensus was that his posting was a nulltell. 2nd was your strongest point and I agree. 3rd is not scummy to me; perhaps he wanted to get more info on Mastin if he had never played with Mastin before. 4th seems scummy but could you state what post you were referring to?

[Kise]

@Zaz - I didn't personally backtrack when Khan "exposed" you for using someone else's quotes to support your case against him. So everything he said about you, I believed it. You retorted back by saying you didn't use anybodies quotes, and I [still lazily] did not backtrack to confirm for myself. So, me thinking that someone/Khan would not deliberately lie about something such as this, I thought he exposed you for lying yourself.

But that situation is not why I would vote for KK.

After a while, he himself begins to get caught up in quite a tangled web, where he's not sure if he's a death miller or an [emerald] miller. Add to that the uncertainty he has when answering Mastin's questions, and he gives off a huge scummy aura to me.

HoS: ckool

(it's evident why)

[roflcopter]

unvote, vote: hayker

[MafiaMann]

unvote, vote: hayker

ok... anything else

[Lowell]

Lowell is here, peoples. Things are about to get easier. Saturday, hopefully... Monday by the latest.

[Mastin]

Okay, free time's a plenty. Time to catch up on the game.

[roflcopter]

unvote, vote: hayker

ok... anything else

no. watch your step or it could be you.

[Mastin]

I'm waiting for bigger scum-behavior from hayker & FA, but IGMEO them.

Basically, you're saying you don't want to make a case on them yet, and that you want them to act more scummy for you, correct?
(crazy speculation: This could also be a buss put into plan the night before involving them saying something scummy, or maybe even today, if we have daytalking scum. Not unheard of--lynch all lurkers, Tajo planned to buss Zwet, for example.)

That doesn't sit well with me.

No, there are 3 players who have a username that start with a ''M''. Mufasa hasn''t posted yet.

Never would've guessed, by Mufasa's contribution to the game. :/

Also how do you link to a specific post? Or can you?

I thought a player as good as yourself would already know this. :/

Three things:

1: Then why not vote your top suspect?
2: Explain why you are bandwagonning on the reasoning of others ("not contributing much", "sarcastic posts", etc.),
3: Especially when I've proven these points wrong.

But he should be vig-killed and investigated. So when he is killed, hopefully cop can claim and we can figure out the sanity of the cop.

1: Cop investigating him is a waste, pretty much. We already know, for sure, that he'll show up as the same result mafia would to any given cop.
2: Such vig (AND cop) directing is scummy,
as it not only
A: Is directing power roles,
but
B: Subtly fishing to see if said roles exist.

(This will be a huge shock to most of you)

Yea...things can be rather surprising, can't they?

I just noticed that Mastin didn't post here when I was sleeping

I've had a busy few days. :/

1. I don't see the difference between the two.

A miller is a generic term--
Emerald Miller is a term meant specifically for this game.

It sounds to me like you claimed Miller,
Then later were forced to add onto the claim and say Emerald Miller when called out on it.

1. I dunno,

You seriously don't at all remember your own reasoning? I can understand it happening from time to time, but generally, you say that in a way similar to "I forgot what my reasoning way". Not "I dunno".

laziness?

Is somewhat of a scum tell.

I thought I was getting my point across with one example.

Nope. You failed to do that at all.

1. Yes.

*shrugs*. I'll do it when I'm in a better state of mind. (Recovering from V/LA makes me tired. :/)

3. In our last game you used Craplogic to try to push a case against me. It turned out to be legit because of the whole cop investigation thing, but am I now supposed to consider it a cop-tell whenever you use Craplogic to push a case against someone?

Okay, let's start out with

1: This has NOTHING to do with the original point that tells such as that don't apply to me. Because I do it in all my games, it's a null tell and can't be used as evidence.
OTHER people do NOT have that luxury. You bringing up this unrelated point doesn't help you, Khan.

2: My logic was fine. I believed what I said. I was pushing it WAAAY to hard, sure, (I admitted that the case on you was BS'd. The tells, I was being honest about. Them being successfully applied, not so much.) but I wasn't lying. And the logic there has helped me in other games as well.

3: Your rolefishing on investigative roles is noted.

4: Whenever I push a case, consider it me scum hunting, a null tell.

5: Considering my play as an XX-tell, again, does NOT relate to my original point.

4. Stuff like this sounds more and more scummy everytime I read it.

Well, it's true.

The pro-town response to my RVS posts is to ignore them, or at least, make nothing out of them.

The pro-scum (or scummy, or anti-town. Depends on who does it, but it's never pro-town) response to my RVS posts is to attack me for it, call it distracting, find scum tells out of my joking comments, push a case against me for what I can defend with my meta, etc. It's alright to complain about them ("Mastin, your posts are too long", "Mastin, you post waaaay too much", etc.) once or twice, but other than that...

It's like you think Jedi Mind TricksTM are real.

*waves hand* You will be satisfied with my playstyle, unvote me, and vote for Johnny Rotten in your next post. (This is a joke, by the way. Sorry, couldn't resist.)

5. *facepalm*

1: THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM LIST OF SCUMTELLS THAT DO NOT APPLY TO MASTIN:

-Any Metagame argument used in offense,
-Lurking,
-Any MIT scumtell.

2: It's true.
Look, face it, by MANY players' admitions, I'm not normal.
It stands to reason that scum tells don't apply to me in a normal way, as well.

(Double-facepalm if you actually expect me to buy that.)

Believe me when I'm telling the truth?
Yea, I expect that.
You're doubting one of my beliefs.
A belief.
Something which can be backed up by evidence, and which it is clear that person thinks.

Yet you doubt it.

I have noticed that there had been some discussion on who killed the mafia doctor.

Then how'd you miss the part where we said that discussing who killed what is scummy?

Also, what is a policy lynch?

Lynching any player whose name starts with "Mas" and ends with "tin".
More seriously,
A lynch on a player based off of their meta of being poor players, instead of by scum hunting. Commonly suggested Policy Lynches include Empking, Zwetschenwasser (Zwet when he first signed up was even mistakenly believed to be an Empking alt. ), Millar13, and more recently, Me, amongst others.

I sometimes find that piggy-backing is a good thing.

If I believe a person isn't using their own logic, it's a scum tell to me.

Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m.

1: Timezones. I live in the Pacific Time Zone, for example.
2: I'm up late, okay? Goes with having lots of free time.

---

On second thought, I'm dead tired. Be back tomorrow, then.

[ZazieR]

@ZazieR (339 & 340): I just discovered ircmafia not to long ago. I use the same nick as here. Alexhans can vouch for teaching me the ropes there, including showing me how to look at test setups and such. Xyl's bot seems to like to use stuff like Secret Role, Amnesiac, etc. I had just gotten done playing a bunch of games on Saturday before the game opened, so Sunday all that stuff was still on my mind. Was really stupid of me to bring it up as this isn't a Bastard Mod game and iamausername is unlikely to use such wild roles. I'm on at various times (usually in the evening, but most of the night nothing seems to be happening).

"Selective revisionism" is redundant I guess. Revisionism was the accusation I laid upon you (for asking a question I already gave an answer to in my post 207).

Wow, if I had known sooner what you meant with ''selective revisionism'', we could have had more votes on you already...
IRC roles don''t include flavour. Based upon the flavour you''ve claimed to have received, you should have known that you were a miller, instead of a death miller. So the ''parony'' you''ve claimed to have received from IRC is invalid.
Not only that, when you apparently didn''t know if you were a miller or a death miller, you didn''t ask the mod to make sure. Only after this was pointed out, you decided to ask.
Also, what did the mod say about your question you said you''d ask him?

@ZazieR (342): 1. When previewing a post, the Topic Review box allows you to scroll up to 25 (or so) of the previously made comments. You could have easily see ckool5000's entire post before posting.

The accusation was that I took ckool''s evidence. Yet, nowhere in his post, this was mentioned. Your response to that was:

1. See post 140. Back then, I hadn''t seen that post of yours in which you slipped up. But due to a simulpost of me and ckool, I saw the part in which you slipped up.
Also, note that ckool didn''t mention anything about a slip-up.1.

Why reference ckool5000 at all then? Why didn't you scroll back 4 posts (from 137 to 133) and quote me directly? Buddying?

So I explain that I saw it through preview. Your response is the one mentioning post 342. Once again, you say that I could have used his post. Yet, in the above post you acknowledge that I didn''t as you ask why I mentioned his post then.
So explain why you are still pushing this argument.

2. You can answer the question if you want. And the bolded I wrote because you took my question to ckool5000 and labelled it a "scumslip" when it absolutely wasn't.

I don''t speculate on who killed who. The only reason I ask is because of this quote:

@ckool5000 (117): How do you know a mafioso did it? Are you lamenting the loss of Konowa? Why aren't you rejoicing that we have a lucky vig?

I asked who you thought killed Konowa. You said that you think that the Cerulean mafia didn''t kill him. But for other killing roles, you didn''t know.
Yet, in the quote of which I accuse you slip, you''re stating that a vig did it without adding a word that can show a sign of possibility, aka ''can'', ''possibly'', etc.
Yet, you even considered that the third kill could have been from a third scum team. So for somebody who states that he doesn''t know, you''re very certain that a vig did it. And that''s only possible in one way as I''ve already said.

[ZazieR]

1. Um.... What? Look, if someone says, "Oh, congrats doctor!", then that's a scumtell... But me saying that I'm glad that a scum powerrole is dead?... Well...... It's not a scumtell, because it's something we all know... Or something.... So... Yeah....

So you see congratulating the doc as a scumtell, but congratulating the vig/SK not? Please explain the difference.

4. Sheesh! Okay, I'm not used to games where 15 pages are made within three days, why does everyone keep rubbing it in? Also, all I wanted to do was get some more opinions in here. Also, I didn't want anyone to start lurking, nor did I say anyone was. I just said that they were on the edge of lurking. And look what happened next! The people on the list started posting!

As far as I know, he only named the players who had already posted, but not/barely contributed at that time.That''s a sign of trying to get others to join the discussion or to post their opinion. So that list of his is not scummy.

So point 1 is most likely going to be scummy, unless he has a good reason why congratulating the vig/SK isn''t a scumtell to him.
Point 4, however, is not scummy.

[ZazieR]

1) Assuming there are multiple scumgroups, then the celebrating of a mafia doctor dead is an extremely valid tell.

Why?

4) Meh. Not posting one day after the game starts isn't a scumtell/bad thing. It almost always takes me 1+ days to even notice my game has started. Again, null tell or justification.

Note that the listed players all had posted already when they were put down on that list. They already knew the game had started, yet had barely added something.

2. Plus it was something I've always wanted to say in a mafia game.

2. Even more justification for your actions. This is starting to seem really scummy.

I''m positive that ckool had said this a few times before already. I think even in the post which was possibly his largest post so far. So why did you only point it out now?

[ZazieR]

Regarding posts 383 - 397:
''Hayker? Why are you warning/advising/coaching ckool?''
This

''If you are town, you shouldn't be phased and give up. If you are scum, by all means do so.''
This

But ckool strikes me as newbtown.

[ZazieR]

Also,

fallen

, this:

It's mostly just the same type of posting as ckool, IIoA, that makes it seem newbish to me.

Explain why IIOA makes ckool a suspect to you, while MM isn''t one.
And explain the difference between ckool and MM type of posting.

EBWOP
Explain this as well:

ckool5000- Little content, comments more then really analyzes. What he does analyze isn't extremely helpful. Attempting to scumhunt. Neutral leaning towards town.
MM- Seems newbtown, but possible newbscum. I'm not great at differentiating between them. Didn't really analyze anything as much as bring up questions. Tunneled on Mastin's 2 factions claim. Very weak scumhunting. Neutral leaning at scummy.

First ckool was neutral leaning towards town, but now you see him as most scummy.
MM was first neutral towards scummy, but now just neutral.
For both these two changes, you''ve given the same reason: the way they post.
So explain how your thoughts changed for these two players.

[ZazieR]

Regarding the Rotten wagon:

Mastin

, how many times have you been policy lynched or been in favor of a policy lynch and in total how many players were involved?

[ZazieR]

@Zaz - I didn't personally backtrack when Khan "exposed" you for using someone else's quotes to support your case against him. So everything he said about you, I believed it. You retorted back by saying you didn't use anybodies quotes, and I [still lazily] did not backtrack to confirm for myself. So, me thinking that someone/Khan would not deliberately lie about something such as this, I thought he exposed you for lying yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, Kublai said I lied and you believed him without checking if I did?

After a while, he himself begins to get caught up in quite a tangled web, where he's not sure if he's a death miller or an [emerald] miller. Add to that the uncertainty he has when answering Mastin's questions, and he gives off a huge scummy aura to me.

So why no vote?

HoS: ckool (it's evident why)

Even if this is so, an elaboration would be appreciated.

[ZazieR]

@Zaz - I didn't personally backtrack when Khan "exposed" you for using someone else's quotes to support your case against him. So everything he said about you, I believed it. You retorted back by saying you didn't use anybodies quotes, and I [still lazily] did not backtrack to confirm for myself. So, me thinking that someone/Khan would not deliberately lie about something such as this, I thought he exposed you for lying yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, Kublai said I lied and you believed him without checking if I did?

After a while, he himself begins to get caught up in quite a tangled web, where he's not sure if he's a death miller or an [emerald] miller. Add to that the uncertainty he has when answering Mastin's questions, and he gives off a huge scummy aura to me.

So why no vote?

HoS: ckool (it's evident why)

Even if this is so, an elaboration would be appreciated.