Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[alexhans]

/confirm

Hi AFC... Glad to play in your game...

[alexhans]

I think we should wait for title change and the permission from the mod... So it doesn't get confusing if some votes aren't counted.

[alexhans]

Vote ppp973

for trying to vote early to confuse things and then not voting anyone.

[alexhans]

Vote ppp973

You know your vote doesn't count right?

It would be an excellent way to find out scum if it did...

Imagine
Scum 1 (1) ppp973
Scum2 (2) ppp973

I'd know who to lynch...

[alexhans]

Third vote is opportunistic? Really? That's a stretch.

I agree... I'm thinking that it fishes for reactions more than starts a bandwaggon... Who is gonna call him off for that...

These two votes are based on legitimately "scumtells", and at the very least seem to be an attempt to draw information from the player, and seem to be non-random votes.

Wrong. My vote wasn't based on a scumtell. It's a random vote but I always give it a reason so we can maybe get a response.

Also, it's PAGE 2. Don't expect airtight cases.

That's what I meant.

No, not at this point ... I probably wouldn't have chose Chief if I knew that he had a vote on him(same post time), but I'm fine with it where it is for now. Pressure on a couple of players gives us more information.

You wouldn't vote for someone who already has a vote? why? you think it can lead to a bandwaggon to fast or what

Unvote, vote to lynch A mafiaso

Shessh I was kiddding, someone kept doing that one this sites I was playing at so I did it here

Yeah... well... don't do it because I almost screamed when i saw your vote. A scream of annoyance.

[alexhans]

Unvote, vote to lynch A mafiaso

Shessh I was kiddding, someone kept doing that one this sites I was playing at so I did it here

You said that you were scared, only mafia are scared to be lynched when the lynched targeted.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

for now.

err... ok... any reason? Joke reason?

[alexhans]

Vote ppp973

for trying to vote early to confuse things and then not voting anyone.

Going to chalk this up to a language barrier, but I thought it was weird how alex said ppp was suspicious for "voting early".

Nope. Never said he was suspicious. But I find it more interesting if I give my vote a content other than: "vote Mr.Doe because he smells like my socks :p"

Unvote, vote to lynch A mafiaso

Shessh I was kiddding, someone kept doing that one this sites I was playing at so I did it here

You said that you were scared, only mafia are scared to be lynched when the lynched targeted.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

for now.

err... ok... any reason? Joke reason?

read my post instead of tl;dr.

Oh! wow. now I understand... you think that because your vote annoys me then I'm mafia and scared by your -I want to say stupid but i'll say meaningless- vote? and also you OMGUS me? This is really an OH MY GOD YOU SUCK!!!! with all the letters.

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

[alexhans]

Also, it's PAGE 2. Don't expect airtight cases.

That's what I meant.

... I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean that you did have a reason for your vote, it just wasn't particularly solid?

No... I meant that this was RVS and there won't be solid cases but reaction fishing...

No, not at this point ... I probably wouldn't have chose Chief if I knew that he had a vote on him(same post time), but I'm fine with it where it is for now. Pressure on a couple of players gives us more information.

You wouldn't vote for someone who already has a vote? why? you think it can lead to a bandwaggon to fast or what

Now, I'm aware that arguments are not going to be solid, but there is a different between arguments not based on airtight premises and craplogic, and this is the latter. If Lester honestly believed what you claim he did, he would have quickly unvoted, and voted somebody else. He did explain his vote too, eager to hear your response.

Well.. As I become more experienced by playing more games I'm starting to discover that some things I initially scummy are not necessarily like that. And that there are different playstyles and strategies that one may use. I don't think it was crap logic. Right now I felt that the quick waggon might have been an intelligent move to see who would accuse him and in what terms... But ultimately this may be all some kind of WIFOM. I'll think about it.

Not neccesarily. Many players don't like being lynched on town

I don't want to get lynched. Ever. I can't imagine a situation where lynching a town player would be helpful.

Also... I don't like very much that people start cataloging others as town or townie because that doesn't help at all(IMHO) and is usually a trick by scum to befriend players or remove suspicion from them in a eventual death situation. And can make other people take that towniness for granted too.

Let's focus on finding scum, shall we?

[alexhans]

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

Hard questions are a way to get solid reactions from players. If everyone goes easy on each other nothing will get done. Now who would that benefit most? The mafia. It's precisely because we don't know who's town and who's not that repeated questions are asked. You don't seem comfortable with that though.

Unvote
Vote: alexhans

There are ways to scum hunt and still remain cold. I'm against the emotional attacks that many players seem to do. They quickly vote for anyone get a wrong response and jump at their throats then get OMGUSED and keep fighting a tunnel visioned fight for the rest of the game because they let their emotions cloud they're judgement.
I'm just trying to warn you against that problem so we can avoid getting confused by a townie fight.

-Archaist gives me town vibes, probably because of his vote on...

-Alexhans'

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

worries me and pings my scumdar like crazy. It's very much like KK's, but with, admittedly, more townie intentions in it. Archaist outlined the reasons why it was scummy already, but to reiterate, it seems like Alexhans is uncomfortable with moving out of the RVS, and onto real scumhunting. Hm.

It pings your scumdar like crazy? Wow. I never said I didn't want to leave RVS... I just wanted to make the game tidier so I could understand it better and scum hunt accordingly.

And here'something I'm puzzled about. You both found my statement to be scummy but completely ignored this one?:

Also... I don't like very much that people start cataloging others as town or townie because that doesn't help at all(IMHO) and is usually a trick by scum to befriend players or remove suspicion from them in a eventual death situation. And can make other people take that towniness for granted too.

This could be viewed as scummy with more intensity because I'm telling you not to speak about your thoughts in a way. Not to tell who you think is town. Now I'm not so sure about it. But you didn't speak against it or anything.

I disagree completely. Making public your belief that "I think player A is town" or "I believe player B might be scum" is the very basic foundation of useful information to hunt scum. If we don't say who we suspect and who we don't suspect, how else are we to find the scum?

I didn't say that we shouldnt say who is scum but not who is town so as to not give them so much info about how lost we can be. Not to let them strategize on who to kill or who to push (a lynch). Anyway... I might be wrong about that.

Unvote, vote to lynch A mafiaso

Shessh I was kiddding, someone kept doing that one this sites I was playing at so I did it here

Yeah... well... don't do it because I almost screamed when i saw your vote. A scream of annoyance.

Unvote, vote to lynch A mafiaso

Shessh I was kiddding, someone kept doing that one this sites I was playing at so I did it here

You said that you were scared, only mafia are scared to be lynched when the lynched targeted.

Unvote, Vote Alexhans

for now.

Oh! wow. now I understand... you think that because your vote annoys me then I'm mafia and scared by your -I want to say stupid but i'll say meaningless- vote? and also you OMGUS me? This is really an OH MY GOD YOU SUCK!!!! with all the letters.

Oh and also, Alex, how did I OMGUS you? I said the reason was in my post?

Ok... I almost screamed of annoyance. I was annoyed by your voting no one and pretending to do so. Vote: The mafia, Vote:scum, vote:thebadguys... That's not funny. That's not helpful. I noted that you did that and had my vote on you and you suddenly said that I was scared of getting lynched... How? I had no pressure on me... How did you thought that? I think it was basically voting me for voting you. I saw no valid reasons for your vote so I think it's an OMGUS.

And regarding the No Lynch. I think it's an awful idea. We get info from the votes and all what happens in a day(pressure, voting patterns, etc)

I'm gonna try to make a good re-read because I still haven't understood all the posts in this game. I don't have a clear idea about whats going on until now.

oh... Happy birthday Chief!

[alexhans]

re-read done. I may have gone over some things again but from a new point of view.

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still something.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but

combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting

towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

(bolded by me)
This I found strange... How was his response snappy and defensive? I only saw it a bit contradictory when he first said that ppp should be lynched but later told pie that he wasn't sold by policy lynches (41).
Brian attacks him with no reason and mentioned that PiePop was sewing confusion and chaos.

To be completely honest, I was scanning the page, and I only saw 1 vote on him :/ Sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's true. Since it was the RVS, I didn't thoroughly read :/ ppp's vote stood out because it was longer than the others', and I saw it, and in going to reply, I spotted only one other vote, Archaist's.

Ok... So you didn't see mine? That I don't understand. I could understand you seen both and voting to see who would call on the bandwaggon but saying you didn't see mine when there was a 6:41 - 7:17 = 36 minutes period between my vote and yours. There's a possible satisfying answer to this but I want you to give it to me.

On an unrelated note... I just notices you're a girl... And you have an avatar of Gossip Girl... Cool. Can I call you C?

Then comes 49 where ppp votes me for being "scared" I really don't know why because I had never said such thing...

Additionally, I'm not going to touch the ppp thing. I have no problem with his vote, I actually thought it was kind of clever

How was it clever?
Your reasons on Kublai are less than Brian's.
57:ppp tells me to read his post instead of tl;dr(too long don't read, I had to google that) but I don't think they long enough to entitle a long read... I just didn't find a reason for his vote...

How am I supposed to get to know you without pushing your buttons? Besides, I still see you as being on the defensive if you hastily call my actions "jumping to conclusions". It seems like everyone who's made even the slightest claim against you has gotten a huge post reaction

Didn't you jump into conclusions when saying he was acting defensive or over reacting? and accuse him again for hastily accusing you? You're trashing him while playing it cool?

FoS:BrianMcQueso

How exactly does a third vote on a wagon fish for reactions?

It leaves him at L-4 a tini tiny bit scarier than l-5... Harder to ignore.

Now, I'm aware that arguments are not going to be solid, but there is a different between arguments not based on airtight premises and craplogic, and this is the latter. If Lester honestly believed what you claim he did, he would have quickly unvoted, and voted somebody else. He did explain his vote too, eager to hear your response.

First of all: I didn't claim he did anything... I just asked him a question to get an answer about something he had said that I found strange. I think if he is scum he will not do that unvoting and voting because ti could appear as wishi-washiness so it's a null tell. Eager to hear my response? what's that? a subtle accusation that I didn't answer him or what?

No, I don't think anyone this early is going to be lynched because of a bandwagon, but it was just an arbitrary vote and I probably would have chosen someone else if I knew there was a vote for him right above me anyway.

What should I answer if there's no question and it answers my previous one?

It was after Lester asked an (IMO) pretty innocous question that suddenly Kublai gets defensive and starts attacking my method of ending the RVS. It feels like if it were genuine, it would have been more immediate.

Totally subjective from your part.

when did Alexhans state that he was scared to be lynched?

ppp? what do you say? It's been asked a couple of times, it seems.

Snappy? Defensive? Holy leaping to conclusions, Batman! Don't you have to know me first before making that call?

Yeah, you see this, this is both snappy and defensive.

wow. anything you say WILL be used against you Kublai... Seems like you're arrested. I don't think that's necessarily a scum tell if it indeed is snappy and defensive.

Good reasons in 64 on why to be alert on the RVS by PiePop.

My vote targeted only the mafia's so I doesn't make sense for a townie to have a problem with that

addon- I agree with all of your comments, but yes I know it's meaningless but it only targeted mafia.

Sorry ppp but this is lame. Your vote didn't target anyone at all. It's not valid. I think you may have thought it to be a good trap but it really isn't because scum wouldn't care about it.

After Pie's #63, his scumminess is contrary to Kublai's. Low percent.

Let's not make that kind of assumptions yet, we can always be surprised by scum fighting each other.
Brian has a point regarding Light-kun in 73

PPP: Do you have anything else to add? It seems to me that there have been several interesting points brought forth and a good deal of pressure applied, any comment?

I feel like I commented on most of the game in #63-64. Is there anything in particular you want me to talk about?

I think you thought that ppp was you but you're either PiePop or PiP. He was asking ppp973.

81: Nice post by KK. A lot of coherent things. KK and PiePop are both right in their own ways. They have different views of the game. I don't agree with the KK waggon, At all.

82: Archaist votes me... How many times has he posted?

This is why I see you two as scummy. You made scummy actions, but you also had a point against Kublai that I agreed with, therefore, I voted Kublai, more scummy, while you were also a high percentage.

Yeah... both have a high percentage but if one is scum the other is not , according to you...

Just did a re-read, everyone (of consequence) in isolation

Is there anyone that seems to be lurking or active lurking?

add on: We a risking to kill a pro-town, and I think Alex did make a valid point that townies won't want to be lynched.

I was a doctor is a mafia round and I was going to get lynched, but the bus driver saved me. However, the bust driver was working with the mafia.

What's your point with the doc story?
91: Now this is jumpy. ppp973 only said that my answer was satisfying and chief thought I he was defending me and quickly tried to dismiss what he said...
92. Light-kun agrees.

Is that in any way, help reveal anyone's alignment?

I don't understand what you mean... but I'll try to explain why I thought it could be viewed as scummy:
I said not to say who is town.
That may mean I'm telling you not to scumhunt, as brian said, saying who we think is innocent and who is guilty may give us more info in the way of reactions. What I didn't like about it was that if we said that a scum was town in our view, others may agree and the said scum will have a free pass until the end of the game when people have their suspicions hard coded in their minds. I prefer that we say who we think is town and scum but state that we can change that whenever we feel like and that NO ONE is cleared. I've seen in 753 (Sanity Ensues Mafia) a pro-town Charrat and Green crayons (although a bit lurkish) to ride completely untouched and unquestioned through the whole game. That's why I'm wary of Archaist and all the players of that kind.

Do you think this is happening now, in this game?

I don't know.

Speaking of which, how's it going, cateraction? Glad you decided to show up, but I'd like to hear your opinion on a lot of the stuff that's been going down.

yeah... him and Archaist.

Number of posts without talking quality or content into account (and not counting the 0).
Cream: 2
Alexhans: 9
Archaist: 3
Brian: 8
Cateraction: 3
chief: 6
KK: 7
Lester: 8
Light-Kun: 10
PiePop: 7
RedCoyote: 7
ppp973: 13

Make of it what you want.

[alexhans]

Over rated? There were a whole

two

posts about it when you said this, and you only commented on it after ChiefSkye4 did, not in your post right after I voted.

dude, the whole two posts are your calling me off for supposedly not wanting to leave RVS (82) and not being confortable with scumhunting and chief's saying she was suspicious of me because of your post (86).

So yeah, It IS over rated.

[alexhans]

Alexhans, I will change it to, that you were annoyed and not scared.

Make of it what you want.

I think this post isn't useful. First you repost my postcount and leave outdated without saying so (at least quote it man) and then you recognize you were wrong and try to leave it as a point against me? Is it surprising that your weird not voting anyone but playing annoys me?


dude... there are some players who just won't give info... For example... read cateration in isolation. He just doesn't scumhunt, No vote (not even Random). He mildly defends a couple of people and state that he is a bit suspicious of Light-kun but nothing else. Lester hasn't been very active either but he has been prodded.

What an incredibly useful post. It's exactly what I wanted for you to leave out quality and content and make no comments on it. It's amazing that you have so many posts, when your posts are so full of content.

What about yours?

unvote, vote cateraction

I also don't like Archaist's case on me based on my "not wanting to leave RVS" and find it a bit opportunistic but maybe it's just me knowing I'm town (and not undestanding why I'm being attacked) that gets me paranoid. Although with few posts he has made a couple of questions to scum hunt.

[alexhans]

maybe it's just me knowing I'm town (and not undestanding why I'm being attacked) that gets me paranoid.

Sounds a little forced to me :/

Also, just noticed you're from BA, Argentina- best city I've ever traveled to. Props :p

I'm not saying that you should stop investigating me or whatever, be my guest, I'm not afraid of questions. I only say that I sometimes get too overly suspicious of people that attack me. Anyway, at least you're talking... Is there anything else that called your attention?

[alexhans]

Anyone want to discuss the idea of a ppp policy lynch (a p-p-p-policy lynch if you will, lol)?

I'm being serious.

No. I don't do policy lynches. I may go on little cases and gut. But not just policy.

I don't know if it's inexperience or what, but voting for a No Lynch on day 1? Are you kidding me? i really don't like it

I believe that is not a huge point. I started playing mafia in another page were usually every first day goes with no lynch because they're all themed games with lots of PR's. It's an aberration of mafia really... But it can be fun. Also, there's not so much discussion, it's all full Zwets if you know what I mean...

i know that some of them are plain useless, i was just worrying of overposting, somewhat of a joke

It doesn't matter if you post a lot if it has content. Try to make content. Ask questions we're you see strange things. Fish for reactions... You think you're being consistent with the way in wich you played your newbie game?

He posted them in a very nice list form, followed by a vote. It was pretty hard to miss.

Wow. Keep with the great contributions. Nothing else to add? A suspicion? A question? A comment?

Since all start at 33%, anyone over 35% on day 1 is votable. Beyond day 2 (day 3), I vote for people who are close/over 40%

What do you mean they all start at 33%?

zwetchenwasser/empking/dejkha, just ruin the whole system and some adjustments are necessary for them.

I'm a 7 person game with all 3...

EBWOP: Just to clarify, I don't see how any of those questions are relevant to my scumminess.

All questions can be useful. That someone asks you a question doesn't necesarilly mean he thinks you're scum.

Personally, can't stand policy lynches. It's a perfect hiding place for scum. But, ppp (for unpolicy reasons) is not an entirely bad lynch.

Why? Would you lynch him now if you could hammer?

[alexhans]

Finally cater... I agree with your thoughts regarding ppp and Scum benefiting from pushing newb player's lynches

[alexhans]

OH.... But we can... So don't rush into a policy lynch.

[alexhans]

Yes, but now that it has been logically proven that, regardless of alignment, ppp-experienced wouldn't have wanted a no lynch, we should move back to previous discussion.

While I agree that ppp's no lynch is not necesarilly scummy I don't like your treating the game as it would have to run over only one topic. We can (and should) have a lot of things going on so we can avoid tunnel visioning and scum pushing for bandwaggons.

Also, lester has a point regarding light-kun when he says that he is pushing KK but leaving the door open for an eventual ppp vote based on policy.

How do these two go together? Are you interested in his system or not?

Asking questions is always good for the town. I also want to know why is 33 instead of 50 %.

Idon't really understood how I assumed anything. I said lynching ppp was irresponsible, especially if KK though he was innocent. It's still irresponsible if he was unsure.

What has KK to do with this? the only ones who know alignment of the others are scum... Do you think KK is scum?

If I don't, consider me mafia

This kind of statements are dangerous... If you have a problem and can't access internet you'll have a hard time for a unnecesary joke.

Hah, you maybe right. ppp actually seems somewhat harmless compared to others I've run across.

Does this mean you think he is town or that you think he won't be anti-town for the sake of it like, say Zwets...

Not only that, but he's been quick to run out talking about ppp, and his perecentage system... `

Now I'll have to second cater.... How's this consistent with your lack of interest for the percentage system?

[alexhans]

I agree, in theory, that questions are good for the town, but I don’t understand what kind of response to this question you would find scummy or not

It's not about looking for scum tells. It's about understanding his thinking.

If I ask what your favorite flavor of ice cream is, is that question really benefiting the town?

Lemon There's a difference cater... That question is not game-related but asking a player that states he find players so much % scummy triggers interest because using numbers like that suggest a precision method.

Arbitrary numbers: well, I decided that each individual person, if scum, would have a 1/3 chance of being 1/4 scum. This assumes sk, 3 mafia. Thus, 4/12=1/3=33.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333%
Rounded down: 33% start. Semi arbitrary. Also, if you're at 50% on my scale, you are either the worst player ever or mafia. (No one has ever gotten that high. 47%, yes. 50%? No.)

THIS IS NOT IRRELEVANT light-kun... thanks for explaining. Im gonna bother you with one more question. Can you point me other games you've played so I can look (If I have time) at how you apply this percentage system?
SIDE NOTE: I'm not gonna blame you for this but if you were town you should think that there's 4/11 chances of being scum for every person (you don't count yourself because you know it). That makes it 36.33 %. Along the same line, If I'm at lylo with 2 scums and 3 town (including me) I will think I have 50 % of hitting scum, not 40%.

167: mmm... I usually get townie vibes when I see that kind of inexperience...

Just to clarify, who's system are you calling needlessly complicated?

Er... His talking about his own system

[alexhans]

mmm... your wiki is not in the right place Light Kun... you should press the wiki button and be able to access it... Maybe you did it in your user page. If you want I'll paste it for you in the right place.

[alexhans]

Done... Now by pressing the wiki button below your post you can see your wiki. Further modifications should be done from there and you should delete the user:light-kun content.

[alexhans]

I will need more information before I say Kublai is scummy, but just quickly reading he is slightly scummy

It would help if you at least wrote 1 sentence saying why...

Hi Archon... Are you Archaists cousin? (Both Arch's)

[alexhans]

PPP, everyone should be afraid of a lynch. You must be a jester or whatnot if you aren't.

FOS; PPP

What do you FoS him for? You think he is scummy? You really think he can be a jester?

How does that make a difference? Your post 186 that (1) I'm either serious or (2) I could say I was joking (implying that I am not joking). Your "either way" statement limits my potential intentions to two scummy actions. It's a false dichotomy because it ignores possibility (3): I actually was joking. By ignoring this third possibility and only pushing forward the first two, you are attempting to frame me.

I agree. the "pretending" is definetly trying to make it look either SCUM or SCUM. The first thing I thought when I saw the post was... he's joking... It was a possibility.

No, you don't need my permission, but you didn't wait or even ask me to explain my comment. You saw ppp973 and LesterGroans make "WTF? This sounds scummy" comments, so you lept in with a vote hoping to start a bandwagon.

This seems to be kinda a pattern with you. You put up a case & vote against alexhans, then abandoned it without any follow-up because you couldn't get anyone to join you. You put up a case & vote against Light_kun, but then abandoned it without a follow-up because nobody was joining you. Now you put up a case & vote against me.

QFT to both paragraphs. You didn't ask him to comment. you are wishy-washing your way through this game without giving decent reasons. Also, you don't appear to be looking for answers but make people suspicious in the eyes of others. Scummy.

Of course, you could always hide behind your statement by saying you were just joking.

That's not the two options you presented. You said that I was either (1) serious or (2) pretending to be joking.

Please tell me where I said "pretended." I said you

could

hide behind it, not that you

were

.

No. You suggest that he is either scummy for believing in that policy lynch or scummy for hiding behing a joke. You never asked him what was the reason.
This is the post...

I don't like this statement. If you're serious then you're scummy for wanting to lynch a player before they even really post anything. Of course, you could always hide behind your statement by saying you were just joking. Either way, it's not pro-town.

You give him 2 options scummy or scummy.

That's your opinion. Either method could work in the right situation. First of all I never said "gotcha!" if that's what you're implying. Even if I did say that, if it got a suitable reaction from someone it would be ok. Not every scum is going to plan out long term anti-town procedures.

YOu're focusing too much on semantics to fight the arguments. Didn't you get a suitable reaction from me and KK? Scum, however, are better analyzed with overall gameplay and mistakes they make even if they plays as it goes.

All three of you are suspicious to me, so I would gladly lynch any.

Again, you only raised one point against me and say you would like to lynch me? Light-kun for ignoring questions based on his system (for some time)? and KK for his supposed call for a policy lynch? And you would gladly lynch any of us now? wow.

See, you're assuming that I was implying something. I meant what I said (you could), nothing more. By stating your assumed interpretations of my words as fact, you are the one who is attempting to frame me.

You did the same thing when you voted for Light-kun. Assumed he was implying you said something you didn't.

You're tied with Light-kun for 1st, then alexhans is next.

Why?

I'm not stopping them from answering anything if they want to. I can't force them to either, hence why I switch my votes after some time.

did you even read this and this? You never addressed them again. So I don't know why you put me with light-kun when you say you can't make us answer... I've answered.

Talking about ignoring cases The very same reason why you found Light Kun scummy. And you were asking questions about his percentage system... not so relevant as if you were accusing him.

I'm displeased with both. Wouldn't you be displeased if you thought you found something of interest and everyone else ignored it? It would be suspicious wouldn't it?

again. You make little points and care to much that everyone should agree with them. What exactly are you saying in that question?

You don't have solid evidence. You assume too much in my actions that you quote and I have easily explained each one of them.

Do you have solid evidence? You easily explained but we didnt?

Your vote is an OMGUS thinly veiled by evidence derived from your own assumptions.

Adding adjectives won't build you a case. We all have our own opinions but you are not refuting logic there. just making a comment trying to dismiss his case. I think OMGUSes are real when there's no reason to vote you.
----------
Some older stuff.

This game has gotten aggressive pretty soon... Let's all remember we are practically in RVS with not much content. Let's soften the accusations a little because town players wouldn't know for certain that someone is scum for 1 post. Investigate, but be smart. Don't get emotional so soon.

Hard questions are a way to get solid reactions from players. If everyone goes easy on each other nothing will get done. Now who would that benefit most? The mafia. It's precisely because we don't know who's town and who's not that repeated questions are asked. You don't seem comfortable with that though.

Unvote
Vote: alexhans

then in 115 you vote for light-kun because he hadn't answered your questions regarding his percentage system... Does anybody else feel that the system is particularly scummy? you votes him "for evading questions and implying I said Something I didn't". This seems to be your attitude. Attacking others saying the imply what you didn't and say that is scummy.

Light-kun ignored my questions again. And three people posted after him and no one else called him out on that? Come on guys, when a someone blatantly ignores clear questions

and

a vote, something is up. The rest of you three (RedCoyote, LesterGroans, ppp973) are either not paying attention (anti-town) or letting it slide purposely (anti-town, suggesting scum team).

This seems odd. You calling out for people to push your case. Then proceed to throw a mist of scuminess in 3 more people.

Just to clarify, I don't see how any of those questions are relevant to my scumminess.

They're not. I had those questions before I voted for you. What's scummy is you ignoring the questions completely and then excusing yourself by saying you're lazy.

So... your first choice is scummy for saying he is lazy.

If you thought my vote switching with alexhans and Light-kun was scummy, why didn't you comment on it until I voted for you? This shows that your vote on me is an OMGUS and you're just looking for "evidence" retroactively to veil it.

I also thought your vote switching and vote reasons scummy but I wanted to pressure cater and couldn't find a way to decently pressure you too, you were low-activity.

having said that,

unvote, vote Archaist

[alexhans]

unvote

...

Lester... you realized you were putting him at L-1?

[alexhans]

@lester: At this stage? You think we've gone far? Some players haven't talked much. ppp and cream are absent (the former is being replaced). We have very little. By the way, You haven't added much... You were absent for some time and then went and voted ppp and light kun (the first without much explanation) and now you quickly pick on a fast building waggon and put it at L-1 without saying so...

FoS:Lester

What's your case on Archaist?

[alexhans]

Can you at least do a fast read and write what you think up till now?

[alexhans]

I, for one, would also like to know.Putting someone at -1 is not good unless you are absolutely sure.

Neither are short posts.

I find Lester's action neutral.

No, they're not short but you basically agree on McBrian's case. Don't make points of your own and don't try to question him when putting him at L-2

I think it's wifom on Lester's actions. There are pros and cons of putting him there. I just think we should hold off until we hear from those who have no put forth their opinions.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this game is going to drag while we wait.

What's this? A push for a lynch or what? We still need replacements... What's the rush?

You have a bad habit of jumping on every popular vote-getter this game has reached so far. What's more, as I mentioned in the 3rd point, you get fiesty about pushing for whoever it is you're voting.

I agree.

Light-kun strikes me as a player who is either trying to get on everyone's good side or just genuinely indifferent as to who does get lynched.

I'm getting this feeling too. I don't know if it's bad play or scummyness.

but the only real doubt I have about Archaist is the WIFOM-ness of over-analyzing/under-analyzing the joke KK made(and whether it was a joke or not). Other than that...

So that was enough for your L-1 vote?

So, you admit to voting me when nothing I've done is scummy?

That's your opinion dude.

Unvote; Vote RedCoyote

For voting someone you don't think is scummy.

??? Serious man!

@alex: I would be one to say that we've had a mostly productive Day 1. Our deadline is a week from today, and I don't want to push the Archaist wagon just because we're under deadline, but it does have enough merits that I'm comfortable carrying it out.

I just think we still have much to discuss. We need the replacements. We need decent input from ppp.

mmm... We can conclude that Kublai is aggressive. Attacking whoever attacks him... scummy or not I still have to decide. I don't feel it's scummy right now.

KK, who started off denouncing policy lynches, suddenly switches to suggest that they might be useful.

KK continues to shift towards the policy lynch he was so distrustful of at the beginning of the game.

Good points by Qwints.
I don't see KK's vote on Archaist as OMGUSy...

Here's what bother me about this post: he goes back to what I see is the weakest part of the case against Archaist. I was being scummy to get a reaction is not a good defense.

I too, dislike this recent adittion by KK. Unnecesary, uncalled for.

Good job Qwints. The Tl,Dr is really clear.

Alexhans 39, in general, has a put on feel to it, but nothing blatant.

huh?

Basically a rewording of KK's previous RVS post, and you know how I feel about that. Rather anti-town, ESPECIALLY because it's even later in the game than KK's post.

Whatever. I don't post others opinions, I post my own or quote them. I explained why I felt like I felt and why I posted that.

[alexhans]

Voting Pattern:

ppp973

: (the mafia),(to lynch A mafiaso), Alexhans, no lynch,

LesterGroans

:* (AndyTony), ChiefSkye4, Unvote, ppp973, Light-kun, Archaist

RedCoyote

: Light-kun, Kublai Khan, Light-kun, Cream147, unvote, Light-kun

cateraction

: Red Coyote, Archaist

Cream147/Qwints

: Kublai Khan

Archaist

:* ppp973, alexhans, Light-kun, Kublai Khan,

Archon/PieIsPopcorn

: ChiefSkye4, unvote, Kublai Khan

ChiefSkye4

: ppp973,Unvote

Kublai Khan

: PieIsPopcorn, Archaist

BrianMcQueso

: alexhans, KublaiKhan, Archaist,

Light-kun

: Brian, Kublai Kahn, Archaist, RedCoyote

alexhans

: ppp973, cateraction, Archaist, unvote

If I can I will post also the vote order so we can see if someone is really opportunistics when jumping on waggons.

[alexhans]

No... I knew you would ask... check the first post by the mod... The asterisks are there... I don't know why. I just copy pasted. In my wildest dreams that would be a mod mistake signalling who is scum...

[alexhans]

I'm currently studying for an exam I have tonight but I've been trying to review Light-kun and cater in this game and within meta. I'll post my thoughts ASAP.

[alexhans]

Ok... I haven't really meta'ed Cater and Light but skimmed through 1 game from each so I guess it doesn't really count. I'll do it when I have more time, I guess.

*Shrugs*
I'm having a lazy game due to the timing of it. I really miscalculated real life. Oh well, I'll try my best anyway.

Scum: KK, Archaist (not together)

???: Everyone else.

Unvote: Vote archaist

I feel that KK has been answered enough today, though I admit to generally agreeing with Qwints post.

Which post? He made dozens.... Why can't you be more specific?
You seem to generally agree with the mayority lynch...

Archaist, which of the following best describes your role:

A) You select a player, and then you learn who that player targeted.
or
B) You select a player, and then you learn who targeted that player.

This is very important.

A is a tracker, B is a watcher. I am a tracker. Why is this so important and what do you intend to do with that information?

He was probably testing you.

280: Light-kun... you're just wishy washing your way through the game...
281: QFT
283: Good points about Light-kun's suspicion of Pie/Archon... totally abandoned... And I, too, agree that Chief should state clearly what she thinks instead of just writing what happened.

Hi hohum.

However, qwints seemed to be trying REALLY hard to get KK lynched, then quite suddenly abandoned his case completely in favor of a Light-Kun lynch?

Don't you think Light-kun is wishy-washy?

It's fine to change your mind, or go after different/better lynch targets but the way qwints was posting it sounded like there wasn't a doubt in his mind. In that context abandonment this close to a deadline is a decidedly scummy move.

I certainly don't get that feeling.

Hohum... you seem to be doing exactly the same Qwints did to KK... tunnelling.

LK has totally reversed himself without a good reason twice, both times leading to a vote on KK. He has also vote hopped spasticly as deadline has approached. This seems much like the opportunism he started off saying was scummy.

I agree. LK has been wishy-washy. Unhelpful. Unclear. softly going for a policy lynch.

Geez.. You replaced in in 3 minutes and already you've had time to research my meta? Astounding.

Great Point!

It seems to have come down to a choice between you and LK

Really? You think so? With 5 days to go? Anything can happen.

I've also noticed that since I replaced in and started questioning qwint's motives the two of you have reverted to this weird mode where you're defending each other now.

Is that so? Or are you going for Qwints with not much of a case?

He votes spastically in lots of his games, so while yes it is a tell based on Meta I would have to see a supplemental reason to vote him.

So he can get away with being totally wishy washy because it matches his meta?

Unvote; Vote Qwints

Why so close minded?

WTF man!!! You don't leave people to adjust to a vote that you're already changing it... How is that pro-town? You're just confusing everybody... WHY EXACTLY ARE YOU VOTING FOR HIM?

5 of LK's last 7 posts have been votes.

LK do you have a case against me or is it just the fact that you don't like my case?

So true.... I want to know too...

But he didn't jump ship for archaist. He jumped for LK and proceeded to post some weak justification.

Define weak. I find your vote weak for that matter, and his vote on KK weak too.

WHO THE HELL IS BloodCovenent!!!???

I feel LK is a good lynching choice because he is totally wishy-washy. Ignores questions. Jumps on waggons opportunisticly. Shifts votes according only when other people make cases (this could mean he is easyly influenced). OMGUS on qwints. Doesn't decently explain his vote changes... I'm gonna try and see if he acts like this when he is town but I'm totally willing to lynch him. We'll loose a really anti-town player at worst.

[alexhans]

Farside: Townie. you voted and unvoted the same character several times. Then another one. Both were town.
I was writing each game but accidently undid what I had written.

Anyway, general idea:
Well... It seems you have been wishy washy in at least one other game but that happened after day 1. There's no game where you vote hop so much the first day.
You also seem to unvote several times... One is enough...

@Light-Kun: Why do you think this happened here? Do you feel your gameplay has been diferent from your other games?

[alexhans]

I meant the farside game he played... it was part of my notes... check LK's wiki...

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Should read: Mini 618: Farside of the Moon by farside22. That's the game I was talking about.

[alexhans]

Alexhans, that was very selective quoting.

It wasn't, I had written list of all the games that appear in your wiki but accidenlty deleted it so I didn't want to do it all over again. Anyway, note that I said that you've been Wishy washy in at least one game I remember but you definetly didn't do it on day 1.
What I'm saying is: I don't find reasons to excuse your scummy behaviour, IMO, based on your meta. Like I could do, for example, with Zwets.

If Qwints is scum, you're scum.

That's it? Just like that? What about all your other suspects? Suddenly I'm scum with Qwints? First you OMGUS coyote now you almost OMGUS me? And you don't want people to find you scummy?

It happens in several of my games. I play this way to keep players active and to nullify every usual scum tell

Tell me in wich games you've hop voted so much on day 1 like in this one. You never actually pursued a case but changed with the tide.

I will admit, however, that the Farside game was my first game (on this site), and the worst recorded game I've ever played. At the very end, I started to realize something, but deadline constraints fucked me a bit.

mmm... I thought It was your last. I started from the bottom and proceded upwards thinking that was the order. I Didn't look at the dates. Just quickly skimmed through your posts in ISO to see how many times you voted and to whom.

Looker:...Do you just go through games and look to see if your mentioned, wtf?

Found this really odd too

[alexhans]

Archaist.... the last point is really stretch... I found fucking odd that looker just happened to pop by when mentioned... You can't try to make him look scummy for that.

[alexhans]

No problem... It was just weird and funny...

Piece of advice... Click the link in the left down corner that says watch topic... then all you have to do is look through your watched topics list.

[alexhans]

Not Omgus. You're selection of quotes in post 316 seemed to be picking and choosing quotes to serve yours, and possibly, Qwints' needs.

I obviously select the quotes that I find relevant to your acting scummy. What quotes do you think I left out and are relevant to my case? Should I quote all of your ISO even if it has nothing to do with the case???

Which brings up a point... you had a list of my games which were deleted...yet my wiki is still available. Why did you use that erased list as an excuse when the complete, orgininal list, still exists? This just strikes me funny is all.

Because this dedicated town person does not want/nor has time to do it again right now and he was completely annoyed when he pressed Ctrl-Z a couple of times in notepad and erased almost everything... and there's no more than 1 redo in it so I fucked it up.
Anyway, I'm gonna say this again. I was looking through your meta to see if I could find reasons to EXCUSE your scummy behaviour. Not to condemn you. I couldn't, so I'm agreeing to your lynch. And it has the added value that you seem to be an antitown player that just attacks everyone who is suspicious of him. Not helpful.

[alexhans]

Well... I've gone a few pages back to understand a bit better what has been happening... I have a couple of questions for Hohum. I know I've already quoted some of this quotes but if I ask you the same question, please write me what you think is the answer anyway.

Chief only voted once this game, during the RVS. That concerns me, and I think it should concern everyone.

Don't worry. I'm totally aware of this.

However, qwints seemed to be trying REALLY hard to get KK lynched, then quite suddenly abandoned his case completely in favor of a Light-Kun lynch?

What qwints did wasn't scummy IMO. I, too, was extremely annoyed by LK's attitude and vote hopping WITHOUT EVEN EXPLAINING.

It's fine to change your mind, or go after different/better lynch targets but the way qwints was posting it sounded like there wasn't a doubt in his mind. In that context abandonment this close to a deadline is a decidedly scummy move.

Do you really think there wasn't a doubt in his mind? Do you think just because he voted LK it means that he abandons KK's case altogether?

The move reeks of an attempt to introduce confusion in the town.

How?

Voting someone just because they hopped on a wagon is a bad idea whether you think they're scummy or not. Pack mentality is key for a successful town victory. Hindsight is the only way to judge a wagon properly.

So did he acted based on a bad idea or is he scummy? IMO, LK's actions haven't been just hop-voting. They've been omgusy, wishy-washy and always unexplained.
YOU think YOU know how to judge a waggon properly. OK, you're entitled to it. But you can't judge other players opinions as scummy.

Can you explain why you went after KK with such ferocity if Archaist was your top suspect? You've hardly touched on Archaist

He never said Archaist was his top suspect.

@Hohum: You repeateadly call Qwint's case weak sauce but YOUR own case on him seems to be dismissing his case. Not making a good case about qwints.

It seems to have come down to a choice between you and LK, which is a tough call because both of you have some BS thrown on your cases and have had some legitimate points brought up against you as well.

It would've useful that you pointed here which are good and wich bad in your opinion.

If I went with my gut right now I'd change my vote to you instead of LK, and it's partly because of what qwints is doing. I've seen (all too often) games where people have replaced in and over-bussed their scum partners. I believe this to be one such case considering that he jumped from you onto the next most convenient wagon with some ULTRA WEAK reasoning behind the vote.

ULTRA WEAK??? writing it in CAPS doesn't make it true. So you would vote a person because you think that another who you think is scum may be bussying?

Either way I wouldn't mind losing one of the two of you in order to confirm my suspicion, though before I make my final final decision with my vote I want to hear what other people have to say.

What would you confirm with wich result?
A) KK scum
b) KK town
c) LK scum
d) LK town

I've also noticed that since I replaced in and started questioning qwint's motives the two of you have reverted to this weird mode where you're defending each other now.

This is lame. You accused qwints in the same way and seem to have expected KK's support. When you didn't you accused KK too.

He votes spastically in lots of his games, so while yes it is a tell based on Meta I would have to see a supplemental reason to vote him.

Then read his iso and look at how he explains his votes. How he omgus RC and seem to accuse of scum to anyone who questions him.

303: AFter Hohum has come into the game and voted qwints LK votes him for being close minded? because he only defends himself... never questions Qwints...

5 of LK's last 7 posts have been votes.

LK do you have a case against me or is it just the fact that you don't like my case?

QFT

But he didn't jump ship for archaist. He jumped for LK and proceeded to post some weak justification.

You keep calling it weak. Ad nauseam won't do you any good. It's not weak. It's far stronger than your own case wich never tried to go farther than qwints vote on LK.

There is stark contrast between how he treats Archaist and LK, even though he says he suspects them both.

You know Archaist claimed right?

This is in spite of the fact that he made a post highlighting Archaist as his number one target.

NOW THIS! THIS IS TOTALLY FAKE! When did he say that Archaist was his number 1 suspect man? You're pulling al from a thin thread that holds water.

I thought Qwints vote & case on KK was not good but yours is supported by a lot of fake assumptions that you keep repeating.

Correct. But you didn't SAY this when I asked, did you?

Stupid lawyerly attitude won't get us far hohum.

I didn't miss the fact that he claimed. In games like these guys like LK have a tendency to be lightning rods.

What about ppp? Archon?

In conclusion, while I'm not opposed to a KK lynch, LK's last few posts have convinced me he is a better target. I also did not like my company on the KK bandwagon.

What do you mean about your company in the KK waggon?

Archon, cater, alex, Chief, KK, Archaist, and Brian should get serious about their votes.

I don't have to follow your timing. I choose when I think it's wise to put my vote and especially since I'm intending to vote the player with more votes. I don't want to let others I find scummy off the leash just because I vote for another person.

I know you switched out qwintz for Light-kun because of qwintz's vote change, but why did you ever list Light-kun as a top suspect if you consider him to be a "lightning rod" who has played according to his meta?

I too. Want to know this please.

I think he misread the general opinion on KK and when pressure came, he switched to LK, who is an easier case to make.

He switched to LK when he changed his vote, yet again, with no reasons, yet again.

Here, you've assumed that LK is scum and then are making decisions on other players based on his stance on them. After that huge case you posted, you're really made nervous by LK voting for him? You're main point is the LK is a vote hopper with no case.

This is the same thing Hohum did... Assume one scum and the other being bussed so they should both be scum... You didn't read Hohum's posts?

1. I hopped from the leading wagon to a smaller wagon - KK had 4 votes when I unvoted him. Lightkun had 2.

I hadn't noticed this. But is good info.

I find the chainsaw defenses of cateraction and hohum to be quite telling. Neither has made a persuasive argument that my attacks on LK are unfounded, but both are attacking me for attacking him

QFFT. I haven't liked cater's play so far and hohum seemed odd too. Specially, regarding the way in wich he attacked you.

LK DID hop on the KK wagon. He only abandoned it after I voted for him. It was an OMGUS votes, not an attempt at scumhunting.

And let's not forget his huge OMGUS on Red Coyote.

LK has dropped too many scum tells and his playstyle differs enough with his meta to be inexcusable. He has voted with little to no reasons, OMGUSed his way through the game and acted extremely wishy-washy.

Best case Scenario: We lynch scum
Worst Case Scenario: We get rid of a unuseful player that is confusing everyone and looking extremely scummy.

vote Light-Kun

This is L-1.

If you have something to claim... You should do it now.

[alexhans]

Alex/Qwintz

I never personally listed LK as a suspect and never even remotely went out on a limb to call him a "top suspect". In fact just the opposite. I've been sitting here saying the entire time that I DON'T like the direction in which his wagon is going. You're both putting words into my mouth.

?? I never said that... Did you even read my post?

more qwintz votes, please.

... This is good play in your opinion? Why instead of posting 4 null posts you try and answer what I've asked you?

[alexhans]

So far you had only mentioned 3 players you think were fit for a vote... So yeah, he might be seen as one of your top suspects... anyway, if you were answering KK too why did you only say Qwint/Alex?

It seems to have come down to a choice between you and LK, which is a tough call because both of you have some BS thrown on your cases and have had some

legitimate points

brought up against you as well.

Why don't you try posing your questions to me in an intelligible way instead of expecting me to pick out every single minute detail in your ridiculous walls of text. You're being purposefully vague in order to paint me in a negative light.

riiiiight...purposefully vague? paint you in a negative light? So? What's the follow up?

Straightforward question guide for dummies (you could comment on other stuff if you had a little bit of will)

Look them in my post to see what quote they're referring too:
1) Do you really think there wasn't a doubt in his mind? Do you think just because he voted LK it means that he abandons KK's case altogether?
2)"The move reeks of an attempt to introduce confusion in the town." How?
3) So did he acted based on a bad idea or is he scummy? (anti-town or scum? What are you accusing him of?)
4) It would've useful that you pointed here which are good and wich bad in your opinion.
5) So you would vote a person because you think that another who you think is scum may be bussying?
6)What would you confirm with wich result?
A) KK scum
b) KK town
c) LK scum
d) LK town
7)"There is stark contrast between how he treats Archaist and LK, even though he says he suspects them both." You know Archaist claimed right?
8) "I didn't miss the fact that he claimed. In games like these guys like LK have a tendency to be lightning rods." What about ppp? Archon?

[alexhans]

@Alex:

You accuse me of being lazy and not reading yet you're doing the same thing. I picked this out your diatribe:

Can you explain why you went after KK with such ferocity if Archaist was your top suspect? You've hardly touched on Archaist

He never said Archaist was his top suspect.

Point in fact, he did. And I even quoted where he said that. Go back and make sure YOU have YOUR facts straight before you call someone else out.

No... he assembled a list of various names when called for by Cater... But you say he was THE top suspect. Don't try to dismiss my questions like if I were uninformed. You just get annoyed when people question you. You gotta learn to try to respond everything until things are clear.... Not attack whoever questions you.

[alexhans]

If you don't stop with the ad-hom attacks I'm going to begin ignoring you and pushing for YOUR lynch.

Well... You were a bit cockier in my first newbie game... so I don't see why I should be gentle with you. So you think grudge-voting is useful?

You COMPLETELY missed the point. It's not THAT he did it. It's the context! The weak case on LK, the confidence with which he had in his KK case, and the fact that he abandoned ship so damned close to deadline.

Ok. Look, I didn't like his tunnel visioned case on KK. But when asked about suspects he answered and when he felt LK was suspicious he changed his vote... I don't see anything wrong with that. And regarding abandoning the ship... THAT'S what you did! You said your prime suspect was qwints but that you would have to decide between LK and KK. And though the former was better because he could be being bussed.

Scummy. See above. Quit rephrasing the same question over and over again while you're at it.

I'll rephrase everything I feel needs to be cleared.

What does this even mean?

You said some points regarding KK and LK were legitimate and some were BS. It would be useful if we know wich ones you think are wich.

It's called a hunch. The only way to confirm a suspicion is to pester someone for clues.

OK. I can respect hunches if they're backed up a little and your is based on your belief on qwints scum, so it's fine. But don't get annoyed if I pester you.

Again, it's called a hunch. I've paired KK and qwiintz as a probable pair based on my hunch. There's no way to confirm anything until the game is over.

See? it's not that hard to answer questions...
anyway, I asked because you said you didn't mind loosing KK or LK because that would give you info to confirm your suspicion. And this kind of logic may not be the best on day 1... What about LK? If he flips town what could it mean? just null? And if he flipped scum? Probably clear a bit both KK and qwints?

7) You accused qwints of treating Archaist in a different manner than LK. So I asked you if you were aware of the claim that is the obvious and logical reason why several players have left Archaist rest for now... (me, RC, Brian among others)

He assembled a list with Archaist as the first entry. I interpreted that to mean that he was saying Archaist was his top suspect. Further more, he failed to correct me when I made that assumption.

Good. You're admitting that you interpreted it one way. I did it the other. I didn't gave particular importance to the order because it was a request made by another player.
this was his response:

First your question is based on a flawed premise. I started reading from the beginning and KK stuck out to me as the most scummy in my initial read through and therefore was my top suspect. Second, I always acknowledged that I found the case against Archaist to be legitimate. I didn't elaborate on the case it had already been effectively laid out, and he claimed a PR 3 days after I replaced in.

I'm not entirely sure if he is addressing the top suspect list. Maybe not. When I read it I thought that he was saying that he was ONE in his list of suspicious people. Not THE top suspect as you implied repeatedly when you made your case. But I could be wrong.

You ARE misinformed, annoying and a hypocrite for saying that I'm attacking you when your posts are full of ad-hom attacks

Misinformed... ok... your POV.
annoying... There are a lot of more annoying players with bad intentions... I have pro town intentions and won't refuse to answer whatever you feel asking me. This is mafia, you should be prepared to be bothered, or, as you said, pestered.
Hypocrite... meh... You were pretty agressive in both games we played together. Don't expect me to treat you like a newbie girl.
----------------
Updated since I had written this...

@Mod: Will LK be lynched at deadline if nobody hammers or will we end up in No-Lynch?

I'm really unsupportive of an LK lynch and I've been vocal about that so far but an LK lynch is better than a no lynch, so this is a fairly important question.

Good question... I thought a lynch meant the biggest votecount but as it isn't stated anywhere in the rules...

Your case against LK is weak, but so is everyone else's.

Why? Did you make a better case?

obviously it's falling on deaf ears so why don't you just let him claim instead of continuing to throw more shit at me?

And here is Hohum... who votes for a player, pushes for his lynch and then when the said player defends himself gets annoyed and says that he is throwing shit at him...

[alexhans]

Great LK... remember to be as clear as possible and probably claiming is a good idea too.

@everyone: Deadline May 6th at 2:30 P.M. (don't know exactly wich GMT...)

Don't let it catch you asleep.

[alexhans]

First of all...
It would be DAMN useful to write the post number near the comment so it's easier to analyze what you're saying.

Now... I'm gonna proceed with a ISO read on you to better explain my answers:
-----------------
ISO 1: Randomvote on Brian.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

And I find this opportunistic, vote stays.

Could you explain this a little more?

Looks like opportunistic wagoning for a weak reason, like a tack on bill. Reads scummy. See post I quote from Kublai.

I also think Pie is possible scum, but this is not contrary to Kublai's scumminess. Nothing more to say really...

Brian has a low percentage.[/quote]
Next post you make KK and Pie are scummy and Brian less so but keep voting him.

ISO 5: When called upon by brian he "remembers" to vote KK.
----------
And this is the funny part (bolded mine):

The Alexhans' case is over rated.

At Kublai Kahn: Wow, that post is really convoluted. Fixed.

*This is at PIE using Kublai's post 81 as a reference:

@Pie: These points are why I see both of you as scummy. You done some scummy actions, but you also made a case against Kublai (first); therefore, I voted Kublai over you. He is scummier;although you are also at a high percentage. (100%=proven scum)

---
I told you already what I think about this statement:

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

Totally uncool
When asked about his system:
ISO: 14 explains a bit and then:

EBWOP: Just to clarify, I don't see how any of those questions are relevant to my scumminess.

This paranoia about being attacked is weird.
ISO 16:
When asked about the 33 % he said:

...What? Arbitrary number maybe.

(later explained why he really thought about it)

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Again pushing for a KK lynch.
Later on KK says:

Uh, don't you need to actually present a case against me first? All you've said is "Kublai is scummy" a bunch of times.

and LK's response is:

@Kublai: Nervous? I never said I made a case and I don't need to make one to ask people's opinions.

Not satisfying.

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

!!! But you don't think that now do you? You change your mind far too often in very little time to be helpful.

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

Okay, I find this a really suspicious backtrack ... if I'm making a case -- especially one as vehement as yours against KK -- I usually make sure I'm talking about the right person.

Unvote

Vote: Light-kun

I was talking about the right person. I failed to realize the points were already addressed. Also, are you making a case?

Votes Archaist (L-2) with this reasoning:

And hey, because we need more humongous-sized posts addressing the Kublai Khan vs Archaist situation:

While I wasn't a fan of KK's joke of a policy lynch towards Archon, I think Archaist overreacted in post 186. KK, though, in typical fashion, jumps down the throat of a person bringing accusations against him, in post 192. It gets really interesting in post 197:

That's not the two options you presented. You said that I was either (1) serious or (2) pretending to be joking. Then you voted saying that either way I was anti-town.

I agree with this. As I said above, I think Archaist took this comment a little too far, and KK being "scummy" or "pretending to be joking" is looking at it in a black-or-white sense (or is it black-or-black), and blindly ignored other possibilities. However, in that same post:

I'm inclined to agree. Scum are notorious for creating situations where either choice paints others in a negative light, assumes others=town aligned. Further, I don't think that archaist was trying to "throw votes around until it sticks," I think Archaist is attempting to mislead people by creating a blind-spot decision for observers of the situation. I also agree with the rest of Brian's argument.

Vote Archaist

Side note: Archon came into the game realizing it was a joke. Therefore, you should know it is a joke or meant to be one. Given that the target admits something, it is scummy to continue to defend the target (or attack that aggressor, as the case maybe.)

Archon: You could be more useful and give an opinion on the derived situation.

The following post Lester votes Archaist Putting him at L-1:

I am convinced that Archaist is anti-town. The post by KK I myself was suspicious with, but it seemed to be confirmed by both Archon and KK as a joke, yet Archaist seemed to use it as fuel to ignite this lynch. Am I 100 per cent convinced that KK isn't scum? Maybe not, but these baseless attacks sure are putting me in his favour.

Unvote

Vote: Archaist

I, for one, would also like to know.Putting someone at -1 is not good unless you are absolutely sure.

Neither are short posts.

I find Lester's action neutral.

Red Coyote makes a big case on LK and this is his whole response:

Post 231, parts directed at me

So, you admit to voting me when nothing I've done is scummy? You go on to note that I do want to ignore discussion except concerning "A or B," but were you really thinking that the "ppp is/isn't an amateur" discussion would lead somewhere? Even AFTER we concluded scum want a lynch (mislynch preferred) as much as town to facilitate their eradication of townies?

Unvote; Vote RedCoyote

For voting someone you don't think is scummy.

BLATANT OMGUS.

*Shrugs*
I'm having a lazy game due to the timing of it. I really miscalculated real life. Oh well, I'll try my best anyway.

Scum: KK, Archaist (not together)

???: Everyone else.

Unvote: Vote archaist

I feel that KK has been answered enough today, though I admit to generally agreeing with Qwints post.

No follow up in his RedCoyote's vote... He completely forgets. Apparently.

This doesn't feel right, Archaist, to me, feels as though he's just a townie digging himself into a hole about the whole policy lynch comment.

You're exactly right.

Unvote.

This has gone too far and the defense of my comment being logically correct doesn't seem to be helping me. quints brings up some interesting points, but I think that KK responds well to them.

I will claim, because the deadline is approaching and my lynch will not help the town; I am a tracker.

...okay. Looks like KK hasn't answered enough today.

Unvote; Vote Kublai Kahn

This is a crap shoot for me. I know I'll look pretty good if KK is scum. But...I am gonna look suckish is KK is town. Still, I can see the scum...and qwints, more or less, reaffirms that earlier thought.

Continuing with the vote frenzy. Remember that he didn't ask him questions? Remember that he thought KK showed superior logic and made sense? What happened to that? Suddenly because qwints is in game attacking KK he changes his thoughts or what?
ISO 29: This is a long post. Qwints doesn't like the way he votes KK without explaining and LK votes him for it. ANOTHER BLATANT OMGUS!!

Now, Pay attention here... Ligth Kun never said he was suspicious of me, in fact, he dismissed a case against me and later on said he didn't suspect me.
UNTIL I STARTED QUESTIONING HIM!!!
Then he said I was scum with qwints...
LK's superpost

Alex downplays current events claiming rvs. (This is scummy.)

He said this point (Wich was the whole case Archaist had against me) is scummy when he previously stated the my case was over rated.

Archaist raises a legitimate point against Alex because Alex seems concerned about the game's agression level. Protown point Archaist and -1 point Alex, since I missed it the first time I looked at the post.

Now, reading the game, he realizes what his position was and now states that he missed the part and that it gives me scum points... How many f%&$/ times have you changed your mind in so little time in this game? Especially to attack your attacker...

KK calls out my lack of sense. *Chief rereads,

accurately

FoS KK and Alex, but could have been done by a cursory glance of the last page. Did he really reread?

Bolded mine. Notice how everything that goes against me he is trying to agree with when he previously wasn't...

LK fails to really clarify his point, but it makes slightly more sense. He thinks that the Alex case is overrated. In hindsight, LK is wrong, and the Alex point does show a scummy motive. I could see Alex-scum making that error.

"Oh, wait, no guys! I was wrong! he is scummy now that he is attacking me. All that I said to defend him I will use now to attack him."

Laaaame.
Why do you see Alex-scum making that error? meta or something?

Alex deflects to....a statement of his own he found more significantly scummy than the one which was scrutinized...wtf? Blames ...game untidiness for lack of scum hunting. This is almost as good as my crap posting.

Did it bother you then? I think I've been far better at scumhunting than you. And far clearer.

Alex looks really antzy about moving forward and having "buttons pressed." I think Alex is scared of pressure and too concerned about voting. +1 scummy point. The rest of his hunting really doesn't conclude anything or press that hard except on ppp, who looks like policy target. I'm getting a wicked Alex scum vibe.

You're talking about 105 because it's just below the Brian lurker hunt right? Why my being more cautious than you when voting is scummy? You're just reckless. I don't conclude anything? Is that mandatory for a post? and when did I suggest a policy lynch??!! You were the one that said it might be good but you didn't wanna. I NEVER suggested policy lynches.
In fact:

Anyone want to discuss the idea of a ppp policy lynch (a p-p-p-policy lynch if you will, lol)?

I'm being serious.

No. I don't do policy lynches. I may go on little cases and gut. But not just policy.

Alexhans slipped under the radar and didn't seem that suspicious, but in my reread, I don't really much care for Alex's posting and what Alex has decided to pick as its priorities.

So? You completely changed your view about me since I attacked you. It's a pretty common thing. You read someone thinking they're scum (or trying to make them look scum) and you'll probably find a way in wich you could say they're scummy. But in this case you fail to make a single good, or explained, point as to why I am scummy.

You've changed too much, explained too little, OMGUSed too much, your thought processes are just chaos.
-------------------

@everyone: Deadline May 6th at 2:30 P.M. (don't know exactly wich GMT...)

Yeah i don't know either, thats why i put the number of hours until deadline in the last votecount. Everyone can figure out from that when the deadline will be local time. I will put that in every votecount until deadline.

Thanks AFC, good idea.

My position on your actions are clear. Obviously we disagree. This back-and-fourth isn't adding anything at all to the discussion. I shall begin to ignore you now.

typycal Hohum. When caught in an inconsistency he will shut like a clam... :/ Nulltell, of course. Still unhelpful.

RC UNDERSTANDS WHERE I'M COMING FROM. This is good, I suppose. Still, it is also the reason I was mildly surprised he voted me. Hopefully, we'll find that reason.

You were mildly surprised, therefore you voted him? I don't follow. Seems like you attack who is suspicious of you at the moment and try to befriend who isn't.

Did you just dodge our (Me + KK at least, maybe someone else asked) question? Why didn't you unvote Archaist earlier, after he claimed? I'm not asking you why you didn't unvote him as a way of getting your vote somewhere else if that's what you think. I actually want the answer to the question.

^^This.

Did I say that? I think you may have mixed my name up with someone else.

That was for hohum.

You too, alex?

Look, I'm not suggesting anyone has been unserious with their votes (except Light-kun, but that's a different case). That wasn't the underlying intent of that comment. KK picked up the meaning I was driving at. I could've just as easily wrote "Archon, cater, alex, Chief, KK, Archaist, and Brian shouldn't forget the deadline", or "I want Archon, cater, alex, Chief, KK, Archaist, and Brian to make it clear where they stand before this day ends so the town can use that information later in the game".

Don't worry. I know what you meant. I just don't like someone telling me how to play. It's better if you just warn about deadline instead of telling us to vote. It looks like you were forcing us to vote NOW.

[alexhans]

I'm tired of this accusation. Your way of "active scum-hunting" is not the only way of scum-hunting and it can be predicatable to scum. I'm using another way where I make inflamatory ("baiting") remarks and then judge (and/or follow-up on) responses I think are scummy.

well, drop it now because scum just found out that they musn't take the bait...

So you think that I'm total scum, yet you're totally comfortable with the lynch that kk-scum was pushing? I interpret this as a total lack of conviction in your case against me.

I interpret it as:
a) desperate scum
b) really messed up & paranoid townsperson.

alexhans also makes a nice post summarizing the scummy points of Light-kun.

There pathetic and I'll address them as soon as I can. (After my case post.)

Pathetic? Great start... I'm awaiting your response.
-------
regarding 403

His first post makes a "case" for a joke vote, but he doesn't place one. I don't quite understand this play.

starts

The bolded statement blantantly contradicts his earlier statement in italics.

err... no it doesn't. notice the word "then"...

Scum are more likely to be paranoid of attacks

QFT. LK, this is you.

It's funny that you dismiss KK's case on Archaist yet you agreed with him and Brian and voted for Archaist.

I stand by this opinion, except on reread, I find Archaists' two points not to indicate he is scum

You change everytime you reread... and you seem to reread before every post... XD

mmm KK again... this must be like your tenth vote today? Are you trying to set up a wishy washyness record?

Why're you apologizing? If I'm guilty, you would vote me anyway, right?

This IS a bit weird about KK, considering he is usually much more aggressive. It's almost as if he was having second thoughts or trying to excuse himself in case of a mislynch.

Also, nothing you said makes me scummy. Anti town/unhelpful=/=scummy. Further, killing off someone you find unhelpful won't give any information of day 2

You ARE definetly scummy for all the reasons I've stated. And you keep adding more wishy-washyness and making desperate fake-points. I don't know if you'll flip scum, but you've been extremely scummy and there's no excuse for it although you try to pull a playstyle card... being scummy is not a playstyle.

LK, when did KK become your number one suspect? You've attacked him on and off throughout the day, but you've dropped it for others several times.

HELL! He even said that KK's logic made sense and was correct or something like that. Read my previous post.

...I'm actually trying to prevent my lynch here by proving Kublai is scummy

You fail miserably. You didn't address my post. You don't defend but just attack.

On my reread, he "rebecame" my number one suspect.

There's just to much "re" for one day.

Maybe you really are the one I should go after. You keep acting as though you've thrown in the towel today and won't even consider that I'm the wrong lynch. I'm getting mixed messages here...

HoS: Qwints

Oh for crying out loud!!! decide already! Or is it hard to guess wich waggon (because casually KK and qwints are the only available ones) is better to push to save yourself?

In the newer stuff you accuse my case against Archaist of "lacking a scum motive". Which is really weird since you agreed with my case against him to vote for Archaist. Twice.

You've been asked to defend your actions and your spastic votes. Mafia isn't football, the best defense is not a good offense. Especially when your offense isn't that good.

^^This

I have retracted over 80% of my statements in this game

And you think this is good? You've made yourself ABSOLUTELY unreliable.

My actions were sub par and lazy. My spastic voting is normal. Neither have been defined as "scummy" by any player in a collected, rational way.

lol. define collected, rational way... I ask you the same question I asked you long ago: Did you hop-voted so much on Day 1 in any other game? No.

Claim.

mmmm... Maybe you have a point that it's kinda hypocryte of KK to say that the best defense is not a good attack when he is usually so aggressive. I'll look into that.

[alexhans]

unvote

... unfortunately... I tend to believe his claim, and his refusal to claim earlier... And, probably he will die if he is the doc.

Anyone willing to vote Cater?

Vote Cateraction

... He's been excessively cautious IMO. Not contributing to the game. Didn't unvote Archaist until called for it. While pretending to be cautious he seemed to have info implying that LK and ppp weren't scum.

But. I can definetly go for KK. Stating that PR doc claim is a lie and that he wont post is pretty scummy, plus the aggressiveness inconsistency. And he may give us info on qwints and Hohum for that matter. Or maybe even on Cater.

LK... YOU SHOULD'VE REALLY CLAIMED EARLIER DUDE.

3rd. I guess I could also accept a qwints lynch. At this point. Anything is better than a claimed doc. Although I don't really see much weird things about him. Apart from his initial tunnel vision on KK.

But we gotta rush... there's like 5 hs to deadline I guess

[alexhans]

EBWOP: ARchaist? Where are you? Planning on voting?

[alexhans]

I know. Cater seems to be an impossibility.

unvote, vote Kublai Khan

We need someone on the LK waggon to jump on the KK waggon to get a lynch.

unofficial votecount

Code: Select all

Light-kun-(5)-RedCoyote, LesterGroans, qwints, Kublai Khan, BrianMcQueso, 
qwints-(2)-hohum, cateraction, 
Kublai Khan-(4)-Archon, Light-kun, Archaist, alexhans

Not voting-(1)-ChiefSkye4, 

Where's hohum when you need him?

Remember people tie sucks too.

[alexhans]

So... there's hope

unvote, vote Cateraction

Look red... I presented my options:
1) Cater (scummiest person next to LK)
2) KK (Not very fun to lynch him but it might give us good info, plus, totally ignoring the claim sucked. Saying he was leaving for good sucked, his aggressivenes has had some inconsistencies)
3) qwints. (due to the current votecount mostly, I dont like a qwints lynch)

But killing the doc is BAD. And if he isn't it will be easy to find out.

[alexhans]

Archon is voting KK currently.

YOU DEFINETLY SHOULD'VE CLAIMED EARLIER.

[alexhans]

Massclaim on day 1? in a mini normal? have you read what normal means?

FoS: Hohum

You aren't that naive.

[alexhans]

First of all, Welcome Albert B. Rampage and thanks for replacing in.

Then,

@LK: Who did you protect and why?

Now, first post. An unexplained vote? Are you always like this, Albert?

Word.

what?

ABR: What was your night action and why?

Asking for night actions? You want him to revea his role? That's blatant rolefishing.

Because I'm a rhastamon.

I think he's scum.

I Don't follow...

For the record: I'm against a mass claim.

Holy misattribution batman! Who the fuck is still pushing for a mass claim?

You just asked for a claim.

@kk @qwints: nice to see you're working together as a team though.

Does this help? What's your point? They're scum together? then say it and state why.

As someone else pointed out yesterday (I forgot who) there's still a chance that LK lied about his alignment and I claimed for nothing.

What did you claim? When?

I'm not sure if a mass claim is the best idea, but there is now about a 75% chance we have at least 5 power roles. Also, the mod has said that he devised a game with all power roles a couple times. I am completely willing to believe we're in a game with an abnormally large number of town PRs and am willing to discuss a mass claim.

I don't know how you came up with this figure. In my head we only have 2 confirmed PRs at this point (including me). From someone else's perspective we only have one: because I might be lying and LK might be lying.

I don't know where you get a "75% chance of 5" figure from. Seems quite contrived. I think you're role fishing.

Vote: qwints

OMFG!!! I can't believe your nerve. You just fished for Albert's role and you accuse qwints of rolefishing.

FoS: Hohum

Just based on votes here without any context, it would be pretty damn hard to call anyone on the cater vote scum

Why are you looking scum INSIDE the cater waggon? He flipped scum you know. And it's not like he was an unavoidable lynch. Scum could've easyly gone for KK or LK.

This was basically a scum hammer on KK situation if anyone on the cater wagon was scum

Unless KK was scum too. Unless Chief was scum too.

Lastly, alex's vote would probably be the least town creditable. He left before the rest of the cater wagon (sans Archaist), and, although he got on cater early, he switched to KK and back again.

I Can't believe it! I just can't! Mine's the least credible???? You and Hohum are cleared? HOnestly, I thought I was gonna be congratulated or something for this great scum hunt. I'm totally annoyed. I've been pursuing Cater from the very beginning. I was the first to vote him and call him on his active lurker play. LK came in the way and was much more scummy but I still kept my vote on cater until I had too much from LK. When LK claimed, I went right back to my main suspect. Of course, seeing that people where voting KK I knew that lynching a doc was a REALLY bad idea. So I presented my options 1)2)3) and stated wich I preferred and why. As no one voted Cater but someone voted KK I switched to KK. When Cater was voted by YOU. I switched back again because it seemed a possibility once again. And guess what? I pulled it off AND caught scum.

What's the point, if I were scum to put Cater so much on the spotlight when it was far easier to lynch KK... It doesn't make sense.

Additionally, notice above how undecided the votes on cater were. hohum, alex, and Archaist all went back and forth, deliberating their vote with most every post.

No one on the cater wagon ever voted or seriously considered voting cater, and that's not a coincidence.

Duh! Town is not sure who is scum. Scum is sure who is town. What's your point? That you were the only one that looked convinced? I think that when scum busses a partner he looks pretty confident, not confused.

There is the small, improbable possibility that both KK and cater are scum. I want to get this option out of the way because, one, that would be a statistical improbability, two, that would mean that the scum wouldn't have really pushed any other target for lynch yesterday (you could argue qwints to a degree but, come on, zero votes left on qwints?), and three, that they preferred to lynch their Godfather over whatever role KK was? So, no, I'm throwing this out altogether. I'm not only throwing this out but I'm ready to call KK town because of how unlikely this scenario would be.

Why small? Why improbable? What are the statistics? 2) KK tried to lynch LK even though he claimed doc. Cater tried to appeal to emotion and play it cool, softclaiming a PR 3) The godfather reasoning seems good. But What if KK has a role that is useful for scum... say, Roleblocker? I would choose that before Godfather.
I'm not ready to call KK town. At all.

I'm going to say here and now that I would be suspicious of any Doctor cc at this point.

So you're making a possible doc hide? Because you're suspicious of him. Remember, doc is one of the roles that is hard to cc because you get killed for it. Anyway, I believe LK.

Now we have four players left. It's of my opinion that the cater's partner or partners is among these four: Brian, Archon, qwints, and ABR. I believe these are the people the power roles should be investigating, and I believe this is the pool we should be lynching from.

Finally. I agree with the pool suspects. This are those who DIDN'T vote Cater for whatever reason and they should be closely analized. But I would add there Hohum and KK (the latter not so much, but I'm gonna keep an eye on him). There's some interactions between Cater and ppp that I didn't like. It could be buddying but still...

The real joke is letting Archon continue to live with this kind of activity.

I don't like policy lynches. But I definetly feel he should contribute more. What the hell does he replace into games that he doesn't even care about?

Good point about Brian's 348. I have to look into that.

Stop calling my case on Cater flimsy dude. If it wasn't for me. It wouldn't have existed (although you've got some credit too).

ABR is replacing into the slot I see as least likely to be scum of these four. Chief never seriously voted during D1, which is the biggest point against ABR right now.

And when she came back she started posting fluff about old stuff.

1) Would a mass claim be a good idea if all town were power roles?
and
2) Do people think we could force a win if we killed everyone not on the cateraction wagon? I tend to agree with RC's analysis and think it's likely that there were no scum on the cateraction wagon.

1) no
2) I don't know but I prefer to play mafia and look for scumtells other than gambling on hypothesis.

We have to analyze Cater's posts.
We have to analyze Archaist's posts.
They are confirmed now.

I'll get more into this game as soon as I can. I'm really busy right now.

JESUS

@MOD how about at least a reveal on that flip please!? The suspense is killing me!

This is one of the things why I don't like Hohum... It's innecesary and looks like acting. But then again, he could've lynched KK if he wanted. But he had disliked qwints case on KK.

[alexhans]

What planet are both of you from that me

jokingly

asking ABR to reveal his night action == hohum supports a massclaim still or hohum is rolefishing?

I didn't honestly expect him to answer that question.

The two of you are stretching, hard.

Word.

I'm definitely lucky instead of smart. That was a surprising but beneficial result. If I had it to do over again I probably would have let KK get lynched.

ABR: What was your night action and why?

And you were joking because? We should've guessed you were joking exactly how?

It looks weird that you yesterday call for a mass claim and today tell someone to reveal his role and later say you're joking. And then you ask who is pushing for massclaim If I asked you: "Are you a cop?" You would see it as rolefishing so... what's the point of joking about it? what if he actually told you he was a cop/doc/whatever?

We are stretching? Are you feeling persecuted?

@alex I also like how you asked the EXACT SAME QUESTION to LK that I asked one post later.

??? Explain please.

[alexhans]

I was joking around with ABR because Mafia is NOT SRS BSNS, and only drama queens should treat it as if it is. Did you see me pursue ABR when he didn't answer? No. Did you see me throw a FoS, or a pressure vote on him? No. That's the indicator. That's why you should have realized I was joking.

Ok. Let's ask everyone else what they think... Oh... are you the cop?

Oh, no. I was kidding.

There are some jokes that are VERY anti-town. Yours, if it's even a joke, is one of them. You didn't give ANY indication IN THAT POST that you were joking (a smiley could've been useful). You say that we should've realized LATER because you didn't pursue it...? Not good enough. Why would you even fos or vote him for? Not claiming at L-everything because you told him to?

Are you fucking kidding me!?!? You're not even paying attention to the thread! You're just skimming through it, tunneling in on people who you think you can throw shit at.

Dude, it's not my fault if it's badly worded. "fucking" explain me. Don't accuse me of skimming. I'm not. I'm not tunneling. You started going at me because I asked you a couple of questions. You get annoyed because I ask you questions or don't like things about your playstyle. You tunneled qwints for that matter.

Instead of yelling at me. give me a post number so I can answer.

[alexhans]

Post 522, then the very top of your post, 523. This *JUST* happened. Quit being lazy and do your own homework.

This is a game and I happen to be busy sometimes. I devote a fair amount of time to it IMO. So shhh...

Answering now... I can't imagine how this is such a big deal...

oh and LK: Who did you protect last night and why?

@alex I also like how you asked the EXACT SAME QUESTION to LK that I asked one post later.

I saw your post. Don't worry.
But...
I wanted to know too.
2 people asking > 1 person asking.
Do you feel bad that I didn't QFT you?

[alexhans]

Dammit, wow, the one sentence I bold and I have to make a typo. I was typing so many names and going back and forth trying to get all the information in that I ended up confusing myself. I'm surprised alex didn't notice this, since the rest of the context of the sentence doesn't make sense.

THis is your post:

Additionally, notice above how undecided the votes on cater were. hohum, alex, and Archaist all went back and forth, deliberating their vote with most every post.

No one on the cater wagon ever voted or seriously considered voting cater, and that's not a coincidence.

You name us who were on the cater waggon and after, you apparently Imply that everyone but you wasn't serious about voting cater. That's what I understood.
Therefore I said:
"Duh! Town is not sure who is scum. Scum is sure who is town. What's your point? That you were the only one that looked convinced? I think that when scum busses a partner he looks pretty confident, not confused. "

Why are you looking scum INSIDE the cater waggon?

Why would you think this when I said, "it would be pretty damn hard to call anyone on the cater vote scum"?

Did you happen to notice the second half of my post? Or my vote...?

I comment as I read. You start by, apparently, looking scum inside Cater waggon, then, In the phrase you mixed up, you say that we didn't have serious reasons to vote Cater. Then, you call my case flimsy?
I noticed all your post. I responded it section after section. I saw your vote. I agreed with the pool of suspects.

Unless KK was scum too. Unless Chief was scum too.

I address the possibility that both KK and cater could be scum... I really don't think you've read my entire post yet.

And Chief never picked up her prod alex, that's why she was replaced.

As I've said. No, I hadn't read your entire post as I sometimes respond 1 after the other. Instead of reading it twice or thrice and then commenting.

Chief didn't pick the prod... So? What's the point? If she is scum so is Albert... What I mean is... You said that you more or less ruled some people out because no one moved to save Cater. Right? Well, KK couldn't move to save Cater if he wanted to stay alive. Scum RB wouldn't sacrifice himself for a Godfather. Not now. Chief was absent so she couldn't have helped Cater even if they were on the same team.

HOnestly, I thought I was gonna be congratulated or something for this great scum hunt. I'm totally annoyed.

...is this supposed to be sarcasm? Did you read the

very next sentence I wrote

?

No, I was annoyed by the fact you started at the people who were on the Cater waggon. That's all. And how you say I'm not credible.

You can take as much credit for the lynch as you want, I'm just saying you going back and forth makes your position seem

relatively

less honest.

I know. It just bugs me off because I explain clearly why I'm jumpy. I wanna save a claimed doc. If I have to lynch KK or qwints (even though I didn't want to) I will. I don't know why is that supposed to be less honest.

I'm not saying you are scum in anyway, I specifically said you weren't. I've been saying for some time now that I think you are town, alex. When did you get the impression that I've started thinking you were scum?

I know you don't think of me as scum. But if you say something I disagree with. Like the previous issue. I'll say so.

alex, I have to assume you, like hohum, just got up a little early and didn't quite read as close as usual.

I've been up for a long time now and I feel perfectly fine. Close read and all. I just, as I told you, answer part by part, at the moment. I'm actually doing this now (It's faster)

Regarding the odds... there are games with a scumteam of 2 too. I'm not saying he is scum. I'm saying that we shouldn't leave him off the hook just because we think it's improbable.

Moreover, no other target was pushed

at the end of the day

yesterday. If both KK and cater are scum, I'm pretty sure the scum wouldn't be content without trying to get someone else as an alternative lynch.

Dude... there's only been 3 mayor suspects for the town overall yesterday: KK, Archaist and LK. LK was at L-1 when he claimed doc. Then, in a twister of events we managed to lynch Cater-scum. Two claimed PR's, not wise to lynch them... KK and Cater left... Who else do you want to push a case on in so little time?

Three, yeah, that's a personal preference I guess. A Godfather is pretty powerful, but they probably have a Roleblocker and that would be an important role to have if you know the town has a Doctor/Tracker.

Exactly what I was thinking. Exactly what I didn't want to say out loud.

I had this plan in my mind...
Archaist would watch LK.
LK would be killed.
we would find scum.

But, if scum has RB... kill archaist. block LK... You could do it the other way around too I suppose.

If there is a Doctor cc, they are welcome to come out, but they'll have to work hard to convince me why the Tracker died last night.

Good point.

I don't know, I'm willing to concede that he could be an SK or part of another scum party, but those are both exceptions to the standard for me, and having those discussions without multiple kills at night can be counter-productive.

I thought the same, I agree. We should look for scum right now.

I wasn't clear enough about that. I wasn't saying your case was flimsy, I was saying the wagon was flimsy compared to the KK wagon. I pointed specifically to the relationship you had to hohum.

Oh... Well. Try to be clearer because you hurt my mafia-feelings. First time I find scum from the very beginning and I actually get to lynch them. On DAY 1!!!
---------------
@KK: I have to do some good research about Brian. I skimmed through his ISO but I need a better read. I had a town feeling from him up till now.

[alexhans]

Albert: The "why is X alive yet" posts suck.
Archon 539: This is what Active Lurking looks like. NULL POST. NULL CONTENT! WARNING!

I've been accused a couple of times of being angry. I realize that I may take a harsh tone in some of my writings but I'm never angry. The problem with forum-based communication is true emotional state rarely if ever bleeds through and it's super easy to misinterpret someone's signals.

Dude. I KNOW how you can get. I still remember Newbie 735 and Sanity ensues mafia when you were a miller. That's a good reason why I questioned you a lot and "pestered" you. Because as town you would crack under pressure. Wich you did. And started suspecting me. You have to work on that.

@Alex: you and I must find a way to stop bickering and work with each other.

Fine by me. Never was AGAINST you.

Given hohum's claim and archaist's flip, I don't buy LK's vanilla doctor claim. It seems to me we have a bunch of weak power roles and a normal doctor doesn't fit. I, also, have a weak power role.

If people don't like a mass claim, I'd suggest we have one vanilla townie claim. It's quite possible we don't have any and learning we're all power roles would give us quite a bit of information.

And here is were I fos qwints:

FoS:Qwints

Massclaim is STILL a bad idea. If you didn't notice, Archon claimed vanilla without even been asked. Softclaiming is bad. More outed vanillas mean more dead PRs. Saying you have a

weak

role is really bad. If you are town you're closing the options for scum so they can kill the powerful roles... But it seems that you're looking to avoid suspicion by softclaiming.

alex, you are making way too much of this

No dude. You are. I'm only answering and discussing what I think. It doesn't mean I think you're misleading us or anything. I just state the points were I disagree with you. After yesterday's events. You're the most town-read I've got. Plus, by making you develop your points we analyze better the situation until we can be pretty certain that we're right.

In a situation where KK were scum, why would the scum concentrate all their efforts on bussing KK from the beginning of D1? And then come back to him at the end of the day? Why wouldn't they just pick on someone like Chief or Archon?

To call KK scum is to underestimate the abilities of the mafia, imo. It would definitely be a first for me to see two scum members being wagoned on D1 and the mafia not doing anything about it.

This is definetly good reasoning.
I won't lynch KK today.

I wouldn't say that with absolution. A Roleblocker is nice and all, but a Godfather is a very strong power role too... If a Godfather has even one other teammate then he's untouchable.

Godfathers are overestimated. NK inmune? Works only for vigs or Sks. Investigation Inmune? Be pro town and that's solved. NOw.... There's an outed Doc. There's a tracker. Block one kill the other! Maybe the left LK alive because he was scummy. In hopes that he would be mislynched for staying alive. Tracker with a result is worst than a blocked Doc who has NO info.

Chief or Archon could've easily collected votes in the same way cater did.

mmm... I don't know... maybe... But no one pushed the cases... We took the initiative.

Archaist was a Tracker, not a Watcher.

Woah! this was a total mistake by my part. I mixed them up. I forgot what he was exactly.

Moreover, I'm noticing how quick qwints/Brian got on the offensive about Light-kun's claim.

QFT

This isn't a usual game.

meaning?

also please note that normal setups =/= vanilla setups

I don't follow... You mean mountanious? Newbies?

The fact that both qwints and Brian suspected KK earlier somehow excuses them for voting KK IMO

I did not address cateraction because he didn't have any play that was scummy. Before we were under deadline pressure, nobody accused cateraction of anything. Why do you single me out on this?

Here I don't agree. I said repeatedly that I didn't like him and that my intention was to pressure him.

If you were being bandwagoned out of nowhere with less than 24 hours left in the day, you probably would have panicked too. I did not see the panic as a scum tell.

nah... Cater's reaction wasn't panic. Was calculated emotion tells. Oh, I don't want to be lynched... But I won't push a case... That's what made me suspicious of KK. Why didnt he vote KK to save himself?

You did not mention cateraction's name ONCE until you voted for him (go check your filtered posts, it's true).

False. Put his ISO and use Ctrl-F. Write "cater".

Now, while I said that two doctors in a game of this size is impossible, it's because two doctors can cross-protect and live forever. With a jailkeeper (or whatever you want to call it), that synergy is not possible. Therefore it is possible (

but still very unlikely

) that both LK and hohum are telling the truth.

Bolded: why do you think that?
We could guess that the mafia is loaded too.
Who do you think is lying?

Hohum: who did you guard last night?

LK: What do you mean by Naive doctor?

Hm... to be honest, the paranoid doctor would be a convenient RB claim...

But easyly proven wrong too.

hm... Brian doesn't lose his head in the post and makes very strong points against Red...

He DEFENDS himself. He doesn't attack red as far as I can see.

@LK: Did you receive a message that you were blocked?

I'm still okay with an Archon lynch, and I don't think I have to defend myself for feeling that way based on his play.

I'm feeling akward about this but I wouldn't deny his lynch if he doesn't start posting soon.

I'm waffling on qwints because I think I tunneled on him too much D1.

urgh... this seems like LK-style. backtracking the full ride.

That would be (less likely)qwints/kk or a (more likely)qwints/alex pairing.

qwints KK doesn't seem very likely IMO. Alex-qwints... meh... Just because I defended him when you tunneled? Your case was no good IMO and I stated clearly why. And you're definetly not so certain about qwints as you were before.

ABR replaced in he's been less than helpful, so I could see ABR paired with any of the three of them.

QFT. But not me .

I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him down an infinitely long escalator, but Archon claimed townie. I'd list to reiterate my insistance that a town mass claim is a bad idea.

Glad someone besides me noticed this.

I buy Hohum's claim (but I WANT to know who he protected)
I buy LK's claim.
Two doc's cant protect each other if there is a RB.

Brian has been more pro-town but his some of his lies when defending against RC are odd.
I think I could go with qwints because he replaced into the game and pushed a case on an old suspected player...
Archon SERIOUSLY needs to post content (with comments thoughts and list of suspects, what he thinks about each player)
Albert need to post more content too and develop his case on qwints.
I feel his vote at the beginning looks like bussing so if qwints flips scum I WONT let him of the hook, at all.

[alexhans]

Also, most of your arguments against my qwints case yesterday were craplogic, and it reeks of you, KK and qwints all tag-teaming me. The only thing you're trying to do with your last post is draw me into a long and distracting debate about my game play. Having to resort to meta to support your position is scummy.

You simply fail Hohum... there's no way about it...

You think that people tag-team against you??? that's my point exactly. You're a paranoid person. Plus... 4 scum??? KK, Cater, qwints and me? lol, just lol.
Quote me where my arguments are craplogic and tell me why you didn't say so then (especially now that you admit having tunnel visioned and also stated that you were liking qwints more).

You totally ignore what has happened in the game to attack me. What do you have, an inferiority complex or something that when I'm finally condescending with you you feel like calling me scum?

I also want to point out something else. The level of your arrogance and opportunism is blinding. You picked me because you think I'm a weak target. You've as much as admitted that already.

Arrogant. Maybe (wich could be excused by the fact I actually lynched scum on day 1). Opportunistic... how??? I tried to discover your alignment because, yes, I think you're weak. If you aren't you have given me the opposite example in both our games. Newbie: You self Hammered. Sanity: you thought you were going to be lynched and totally abandoned your cause until I among others started calling you frustrated townie and defended you.

The opportunism comes in because I don't see you defending qwints against anyone else who has brought up some legitimate points against him.

Legitimate points? dude... YOU admitted YOU tunneled on him. YOU called LK's case weak all the time and made a lot of inconsistencies that both me AND qwints noted. You didn't make that case worth nothing in the eyes of town because it was completely flawed. Your attack sucked. Re-read it to clarify yourself. I didn't attack you, I just pressured you and you instantly started accusing me. That's what makes YOU a bad player. You not protecting Arch, was another mistake that makes my opinion of you stay level.

[alexhans]

What's the point of that question? lame question... what answer do you expect?

I'm not trying to earn town points. I've looked town for people on day 1 so I couldn't care less.

But when you say that Cater's lynch was an accident you're awfully wrong. It was thanks to RC and me (and we suspected Cater all along) that we pulled that lynch. You helped with your vote too, but you thought you were lucky so if you were me you would be asking:
So you were lynching someone you thought town? Why, else, would you say the scumlynch was lucky?

Do you think I'm arrogant, scum or both?

[alexhans]

Not that I care but....

What happens in the event of a tie?

You know what?

Unvote, Vote cateraction

Go play in some newbie games.

First post of day 2

Word.

I'm definitely

lucky instead of smart

. That was a

surprising

but beneficial result. If I had it to do over again I probably would have let KK get lynched.

ABR: What was your night action and why?

bolded by me

[alexhans]

Where are you going with this? I hope to god you have a point and you're not just trying to be a distracting little shit.

What exactly are you accusing me of that isn't blatantly obvious? Bussing?

It's pretty clear that the vote was entirely reactionary.

Nothing man. Just proving my point. Cut the insults.

Am I accusing you? No.

I'm just throwing light into who you are. Bad player. Sorry. I don't have a scum read on you and RC has made good points regarding your town-ness.

Nothing you do is pretty clear for everybody else. It's better if you explain when you do things. Anyway, I gotta go now. You've proved my point again and again. How easy you get on fire.

See how YOU are the one who is distracted? I know who are good lynches right now (KK's waggon) But now you're probably gonna think that this is all a conspiracy to lynch you or something... XD

I will ALWAYS answer when asked or accused. So if you start something don't tell me I'm distracting because I answer.

[alexhans]

@everyone who says that they will lynch 'X' and can get info from it:

What Info would give us a:
A) Archon Lynch
B) Brian Lynch
C) Qwints Lynch
D) Albert Lynch

You're the only person here who consistently attacks my positions on EVERYTHING.

No. That's your impression. And that's what make me look scummy in your eyes. But it shouldn't. I sometimes have the same problem. Being wary of whoever attacked me because I knew my allignment. It's wrong.

Again, someone who has to continually resort to meta to support their position is fucking scummy.

Pissed off, are we?
I'm actually using meta to DEFEND you. That's mainly what I use meta for. To see if I can excuse scummy play from a certain player due to it being characteristic of him.

I'm getting really fucking tired of arguing with you. You're condescending attitude isn't helping anyone. You're just pissed off because I refuse to sit here and stroke your ego.

I know. But look at what you're saying... you're getting annoyed... It's not that you logically thought I was scum... no! My attitude and my questions pissed you off. Therefore you think I'm scum trying to trap you or something.

Just pointing it out.

---------
qwints: I'm surprised you squeezed so much juice from Archon's posts... they're so null...
As I've said... I want more from Albert & Archon.

Alex points out that archon's already on KK. It's worth remembering that either Alex or LK could probably have gotten an archon lynch as easily as the cater lynch. Once archaist put the 3 vote on Kater in 432, it wsa down to a cater or KK lynch.

If I thought Cater was scum... why would I vote Archon of whom I have almost no info and his counterpart Pie was a neutral read to me?

Can someone tell me why two of the players LEAST likely to be scum are at each others throats?

I guess you mean hohum and me... I just want him to open his eyes and stop doing the same game after game. Being suspicious of whoever attacks him or disagrees with him.
---------

Fack. I filtered RC, searched for "cateraction", and jumped to conclusions without looking for "cat" or "cater". That was just plain dumb beyond belief.

While I can understand it... It doesn't help your current position at all. It looks like you didn't remember the game enough but made statements all the same.

Qwints: We shouldn't limit ourselves to the people not voting cateraction, otherwise you give the scum plenty of room to hide. And putting yourself on the list of "choices for today's lynch" is just... facepalm.

Who do you honestly propose to look right now INSIDE Cater's waggon? He counting himself is just honesty. He and you, and Archon, and Albert are under scrutiny right now because we've just lynched scum.

[alexhans]

no... I just wanted you to clarify point 3

3) Learning Archon's alignment/role would give us a lot of information.

Which you did. Thanks.

Anyway. It doesn't give ME much info if he flips town....

I'll study the connections too when I have more time.

[alexhans]

Vote Albert B. Rampage

Look at his ISO. If this isn't active lurking I don't know what is...

He is worst than chief discussing things deep in the past. He doesn't add anything.
-------------------
Some older stuff:

First you say I'm anti-town, then you say I'm scummy. Which is it? It can't be both, and it certainly can't be one over the other when it suits you.

Dude. It DEFINETLY CAN BE BOTH. Anti town is making bad desitions that do not help town or you to scumhunt (eg. like tunneling on those who attack you, etc). Scummy is making scummy statements/actions (voting without reasoning, overreacting, etc). You can be Scummy, Anti-town and still be town because you would be doing scummy things and antitown things.

Seriously? Did you miss the 80 dozen or so reasons I gave yesterday?

This, for example, is no good. Link it, give the post number , do something other than saying. I've already done it.
---------------------
LK: If I thought you were claiming naive doctor I'd definetly go for your lynch RIGHT NOW. Because you've been in the chopper yesterday and only saved yourself because of your doc claim. After, you voted KK, not cater, so...

Does your PM mention sanities?
---------------------

It's more than that. You flat out attacked RedCoyote and called him a hypocrite. But you never even read him in isolation? In fact, this shows that you never paid much attention to the game until the deadline.

Apparently he didn't. He just used Ctrl-F to search the word "cateraction" in RC's and mine's isos (or mayb e in the printing version in general...) and found nothing until the vote.
It's a possible mistake but the lack of investigation before the accusation concerns me. Anyone who read the game should remember the common used nicknames (and how they may change over time, I only started calling Light-Kun LK have through the game)

It's very possible that Albert B. Rampage could strongly convince me to vote for qwints.

How? With his 1-liners pushing for a lynch?
----------------------

Granted, however, that I come from the mafia school of thought that says that mass claims are almost never good for the town; I'm always very resistant to them.

They give scum all the options to plan the optimal strategy. NOT GOOD. And if people fake claim they only have to explain ONE night action. Not enough to know if it's true or not.

Right, exactly. No one pushed the cases. It seems so odd to me that mafia would get themselves in a situation where it was two scum that had tied wagons on them. It seems like there would've been more of an effort to get someone else up there, you know, throughout the course of the game.

Well... throughout the course of the game KK, LK and Archaist were important cases. It's not like we only pushed cater and scum didn't do anything.

I was gambling on the fact that [alex was] going to submit the kill. Apparently you didn't.

If what you say about your role is true, then this should still lower your suspicions somewhat.

Actually, if there is a 3 man scumteam it would be a 50% chance that I didn't shoot and if it's a 2 man scumteam it would be outright impossible for me to be scum because cater was dead. I could still be an SK/Vig and you wouldn't know it though. Also, hohum might've been blocked. But seeing probably LK got blocked I think we can practically rule it out.

I think we should ask Archon to clarify what he meant before we proceed any further with this train of thought. He said he was a "townie" if I remember the quote correctly, but he could've meant that he was just town-sided, since he didn't specifically use the word vanilla.

ughh... I hate when people say townie and mean town aligned... DOn't add the "ie"!!!

LK. Vanilla townies don't fake claim power roles.

Unless they're bad players who think are pulling a smart gambit:
Panzer claimed in a game to be watcher and he was just a VT.

1) If town, his lynch will give us good information on LK's and alex's alignment as well without losing anything significant.

huh? what info does it give on LK and me?
----------------------

Yeah, I think I should be replaced.

Sorry everyone, but I think I'm in one too many games at this point, and I'm not following along with this one as much as I would like to. Sorry to everyone.

That's ok but think about it before replacing INTO games.
----------------------
Brian 614: As I've said. Brian suspecting KK along the game and after voting for me is consistent. It would've been suspicious if he voted Cater and cater flipped town. Anyway, in this case, being wrong throws suspicion on you because you NEVER interacted with cater and that could be you avoiding links with your partner.
----------------------

Obviously, KK is the apple juice in this metaphor.

I feel somewhat demeaned by this.

Ha! I wanna be a Coke!
-----------------------
Welcome Skruffs! I hope you are VERY ACTIVE and contribute more and better than Archon.
Read and comment ASAP.

Mod Edit: I fixed your broken quote tags for you.

[alexhans]

? Have you read the game?

If you want to discuss qwints situation you should start by saying... Something?

[alexhans]

By your logic though, I was roleblocked and am not naive.

yeah. That's what I think. And me seeing you as useful is what kept me from lynching you on day 1.

Also: Hm... I see your point on the ctrl+F "cateraction " thing, but I guess from my perspective a mafia player, having just lost their godfather, would do everything to not make a mistake like that. A ridiculous accusation (as it has been proven to be) would be a huge mistake that scum would avoid to avoid suspicion, right? I think that the quieter players would be more likely to be mafia.

LK... you can't just excuse a mistake by saying that scum would be more careful. Scum makes mistakes too. And if its a town mistake it's really bad because it was a false accusation.

Hm... who's been quiet today?

Kubali Kahn

KK hasn't been quiet IMO...

As a side note: Hohum was skittish, but I don't find it too scummy.

1) Moving quickly and lightly; lively.
2) Restlessly active or nervous; restive.
3) Undependably variable; mercurial or fickle.
4) Shy; bashful.

The dead laughs at the hanged... lol. ;D

Lester groans/skruff (abandoned because of GF lynch?)

Meta him a bit... he was replaced in other games as well.

I dunno. Maybe Brian is scum, and the thought isn't that far, but it just seems like the EXACT opposite of what a scum would do.

How's that? What would scum do?
----------------------------------------

Last week of school, very busy with finals and semester projects...won't be able to make full length posts until I'm done with school and especially Linear Algebra which I suck balls at.

Dude. You REPLACED INTO our game. You've read it. You voted qwints. I can understand you being busy irl but you haven't given us any content. You don't need to post walls of text. Just say in short sentences what you think of the game so far.
Anyway... Good luck with the finals.

[alexhans]

If you'll notice, that's also a list of our least active people. When people don't talk a lot, I don't talk about them.

piece of advice... You SHOULD. Otherwise lurking scum will beat you.

Is that a threat? Be useful or I'll kill you? (This is mostly in jest.)

No. It's an explanation as to why I didn't lynch you yesterday. But consider it a warning. Someone claiming doc and after suggesting they're naive (wich equals VT).... not good... because it's like if you claimed when you were in danger and now you renounce your powers...

I think scum would be quiet. Didn't I say this?

I really don't follow... can you elaborate on this an its relevance to Brian?

About Lester: Does this mean you did that and he dropped off the map or that there are other games I should check to see if this is a common occurrence?

When you think a player is lurking you should go to his profile and look at the games he is playing... if he doesn't post in any of them then there's no reason to be suspicious... in this case... If you check his profile you'll see that he is being replaced on other games as well. So he is not replacing out ONLY from this game.

If I didn't replace you would still have been in a night phase.

mmmm... There's other people who replace into games. You're not the only one... Skruffs just replaced for Lester so he could've been you.

I skimmed the thread and I found qwints suspicious without knowing the reason why yet.

right. You find someone suspicious. Don't even know why (so we could call it a gut call) and you vote for them without saying anything else in your first posts? It's just odd IMO. There's no RVS when you replace into games.

I'll post content on the newer posts but I don't have lotsa time to do the full re-read of doom.

mmm... I agree with KK... You should've had a full-read by now... Do you have time? If not... why did you replace?

[alexhans]

I've read most of a very recent game where Archon was lynched on D1 an was scum... He was very talkative at first wich got him in trouble and he was finally lynched (I'm still missing 5 pages so I don't know what were everyone's motives for the lynch but he sure looked some scumm from the beginning). Later he replaced into this game (I think timelines are correct) and he posts very little content... like if he was dissapointed with his role and didnt want to throw suspicion upon him....

Scum? townie? Wich is it?

I'm toying with the idea that we should lynch either him or Albert (wich STILL hasn't posted) and make Brian and qwints claim (in that order because qwints softclaimed) so that tomorrow we have something to go with regarding both players who I can't entirely see as scum although they have they're share of scummy things.

I'll go with either Albert or Archon. Anyway, I'd like to hear from Archon's replacement first.

[alexhans]

We've outed our 2 (supposed) docs... Wich are the roles that always make massclaim a bad idea... Now we are not trying to massclaim... but I'm thinking that players like Brian and qwints (and perhaps some others out of Cater's waggon) should claim so we can tackle at their inconsistencies.
Let's make scum play a bit of WIFOM... if LK and hohum are docs... they benefit from killing them... but what will the other supposed PRs (at least qwints) will do??? I think it's in the best benefit for town.

@everyone:

What do YOU think about that?

To me, it's not even really about him avoiding interaction with cater, I don't think that's great but that's not what gets him my vote. It's the fact that he

admits

he wasn't interested in the cater case, didn't make an effort to see why cater was the alternative lynch, asked the Mod to extend the game's deadline because cater was being lynched, and accepted cater's end of day behavior as townie behavior. Adding all of that up doesn't sit right with me.

You may have a point here. I didn't thought it was fair to bring the deadline thing but it COULD be a scumtell.

As far as your push on Albert goes, I get the feeling you're just trying to pressure him some. I may be a little bias because the last game I played with Albert he played kind of the same way and I was just like you, I really wanted him lynched. It turned out he flipped as an important power role that won the game for the town.

I don't care if that's his style... Either he posts or I'll push for his lynch... We don't need replacement lurkers (and the fact that chief's content was irrelevant makes matters worst)

∙ cater is on qwints' list of four scummy people (along with Archaist, KK, and Light-kun), yet he never, in my opinion, truly considers his lynch

This is interesting.

The deadline, I think, is your only saving grace, but if that's the case, if you weren't interested in pressuring cater at all, why did you push him for his claim?

Yet another good point. RC!! You're taking my spotlight from me!!

If y'all are really deadset on Brian as town

huh?? What's the rush? WHo said Brian was town?

652: lol....

[alexhans]

Brian hasn't been quiet. If scum would be quiet, in my opinion, Brian doesn't fit that definition

So. If someone speaks then that means that they're town?

Maybe Brian's just stupid scum?

Maybe you shouldn't call anyone stupid.
being vocal is not only for town players...

I'm here, but I'm sortof at a loss as to what to say.

Investigate... make cases? Vote someone?
You've just sat down and expected us to vote qwints or someone else other than you... Why not try to scumhunt a little? Or you don't need to scumhunt to win?

RC: the deadline thing is something I dismissed earlier but now find it might be relevant to Brian's allignment... mildly trying to avoid the Cater Lynch? And also the whole "are you claiming" that seemed like a guidance to a Cater's softclaim.

I don't care if Albert plays to his meta or not...

He posts with content or he is replaced...

As for the above: Archon sounds like scum by that analysis Alex

It's not a conclusive analysys... Is just me thinking out loud about a game I've read about him with a theory that could explain his actions.

Qwints lost interest in his mega case on KK just because I joined. Looks like paranoia to be associated with me on what, if KK is town, would be a mislynch. (If Qwints is scum, KK is town, I'm sure.)

Dude, again, your vote on KK was scummy! You voted 10000 times in in 10001 posts... You were NOT to be trusted (I still don't think to highly of you, sorry).

However, I'm not voting him because he hasn't been exactly quiet

so... scum MUST be quiet? If I shut up for 3 days it'll make me scum? it's a little more complicated than that... You should vote who you think is scum.

qwints: Apparently Brian is STILL to lazy to scumhunt...

652 is funny but not enough... if you're town you don't have to limit your play to defending yourself... Make cases!!

mmmm.. apparently people don't understand that when I write:

@everyone

I'm pretending to get responses from all the players in the game...

I'll try again:

We've outed our 2 (supposed) docs... Wich are the roles that always make massclaim a bad idea... Now we are not trying to massclaim... but I'm thinking that players like Brian and qwints (and perhaps some others out of Cater's waggon) should claim so we can tackle at their inconsistencies.
Let's make scum play a bit of WIFOM... if LK and hohum are docs... they benefit from killing them... but what will the other supposed PRs (at least qwints) will do??? I think it's in the best benefit for town.

@everyone: What do YOU think about that?

LK... your point on qwints is null... your wishy washiness was damn scummy.

alex has said that he is opposed to lynching him at the moment,

yeah... the moment will still be unless everybody in the game posts... And that INCLUDES ALBERT!!

Albert is tunnelled, hohum has shown no interest...

Albert is not tunneled... He is the worst replacement lurker I've ever seen! Voted without explaining and then left...
He looks confortable with lynching just anybody (look at his posts where he refers to Brian and qwints) and never tries to help town...

He posted this Sat May 16, 2009 9:02 pm.

Last week of school, very busy with finals and semester projects...won't be able to make full length posts until I'm done with school and especially Linear Algebra which I suck balls at.

and then posted in other games on the following days but casually avoided ours...

Now it looks like he is going on V/LA till tuesday but he doesn't even post it here...

Hohum... dissapoints me... First he is very active and agressive... then he just dissapears from the face of the earth (while playing 2 other games...)

@hohum: Did you catch up? Any thoughts?

Well, given what qwints has already done, I guess him claiming won't make much of a difference anymore.

DUDE!!! he SOFT-claimed!!! One of the five more scummy things to do... (I don't know wich are the other 4 )

qwints... CLAIM.

I was hoping to get Brian to claim because he was at L-1, not because we requested him to.

What's the difference? That you have an excuse? People won't suspect you for "trying to out a PR" or something?

From my point of view, a claim could only help their chances of survival, depending on what it is.

How?

Normally I'm opposed to claiming under most circumstances not lynch related, but I think I can support this.

Good. I'm normally against claiming too. But, as I've said, that's mainly due to protect docs who are now in the open.

qwints and Light-kun, why did y'all not answer alex's question?

QFFT
WHY!!!???

Vote Brian

*crosses fingers for scum blood*

I DONT like kind of things. Assume responsability for who you vote. Don't act like this is lottery.
@LK: Would you oppose an Albert lynch?

[alexhans]

I believe its been proven and beaten to death that you're the most suspicious, and if its the best way to push town forward, then voting for you is the best option.

I don't think you're scum

,

but there's enough evidence presented

by Red Coyote to support the theory that you're scum, so

I'll go with it until a suitable defense is created.

Woah...

dude... You're willing to vote someone who you don't think is scum because a pro town player made a good case???? WTF?
If you think the case is good you should think Brian is scum! or at least scummy enough to go for a vote.
This reads to me as: I know Brian isn't scum and I don't want to get stuck by his death. Added to that, we have the crossing of fingers stuff...

Do we have a doc? or just a Jailkeeper?

Alex: Half your post is dated since I realized my defense is null. (Brian doesn't see that apparently.)

my last post goes a little into the recent past and doesnt jsut look at the events after my previous last post. But what do you mean about Brian? What post exactly are you referring to and what is Brian supposed to see?

I do take responsibility for my vote. I'm voting him. If I wanted no responsibility, I wouldn't have voted.

It sure doesn't look like. Let's remind ourselves you voted half the people in the game yesterday... and now you're just saying that you vote scum although you don't think they're scum...

@LK: Can you answer PLEASE the question that I adressed to EVERYONE?

I really don't understand what you're asking here. If you're asking what I think about having Brian and I claim - all I am willing to say is that I have a limited ability. My saying it was designed to see if everyone had a limited ability. I thought it might be because the mod had talked about all-PR games in the past and the number of pr claims we'd already had.

I'm willing to claim if I become the top suspect, but I don't think revealing my role would help the town at this point.

That's it. Qwestiong answered. It's really not a hard thing to do.

Unvote, vote BMQ

He defended cateraction.

He acted like he didn't defend cateraction.

Then he admitted that he defended cateraction.

Now he's getting nervous.

Confirm vote Albert

He voted qwints. Without explanation whatsoever.

He posted fluff and then pushed qwints lynch.

fuck it... I'll post ALL his posts:

vote: qwints

ABR: What was your night action and why?

Because I'm a rhastamon.

Congrats on your 1000th post btw.

I think he's scum.

How dare you ask me to claim at L-6?

Guys call me Albert.

Excuse me, but I have one question. Why aren't we lynching qwints?

Usually only scum will soft claim like that.

Yes it is. Its a normal game.

I like BrianMcQueso's reasoning here. Very profound. Very well thought out.

qwints 588 makes sense. My bet is on him being scum for the moment.

All right guys put down the fruit drinks and let's catch some scum.

Last week of school, very busy with finals and semester projects...won't be able to make full length posts until I'm done with school and especially Linear Algebra which I suck balls at.

Dude. You REPLACED INTO our game. You've read it. You voted qwints. I can understand you being busy irl but you haven't given us any content. You don't need to post walls of text. Just say in short sentences what you think of the game so far.
Anyway... Good luck with the finals.

If I didn't replace you would still have been in a night phase. I skimmed the thread and I found qwints suspicious without knowing the reason why yet. I'll post content on the newer posts but I don't have lotsa time to do the full re-read of doom.

Unvote, vote BMQ

He defended cateraction.

He acted like he didn't defend cateraction.

Then he admitted that he defended cateraction.

Now he's getting nervous.

Wether you believe it or not... THIS IS ALL!

he now CASUALLY jumps on the Brian's waggon... WITHOUT explaining his qwints vote.

And tries to write up an excuse that is only based in Brian defending Cater???

THIS IS NOT A PRESSURE VOTE. I INTEND TO LYNCH ALBERT. Anyone has a problem with that? tell me why. Anyone who wants to vote Albert... You're welcome.

[alexhans]

won't be able to make full length posts until I'm done with school and especially Linear Algebra which I suck balls at.

Are you able to do them now???

Why arent you then?

I voted qwints from instinct.

ohhhh... good reasoning! You will accomplish a lot of things voting like that

Then I kept my vote on him because I don't like soft-claims.

You could've tried to make him claim at least.

I now vote BMQ from evidence that he contradicted himself.

Have you even read what Brian said? quote us the contradictions please...

This is how I play, bitch.

Then you just SUCK.

I'm not gonna excuse what you do because of playstyle... You're doing nothing.

[alexhans]

People shouldn't call fellow players

bitch

....

anyway....

Are you gonna keep playing like this or there's hope that you can improve your content?

If so... when?

[alexhans]

People shouldn't call fellow players

bitch

....

anyway....

Are you gonna keep playing like this or there's hope that you can improve your content?

If so... when?

Your attitude really sucks.

You can't really talk about my attitude can you?

Anyway, care to give us opinions on the game so far?

Since your catch up?

[alexhans]

Alexhans has been beating me over the head with my meta most of the game, and he is starting to take a really piss poor attitude with other people than me in the lasts few posts. He has consistently torn my arguments apart to discredit me yet he maintains the stance that he's defending me. He's admitted as much as he admits that he thinks my play is week. He's continually trying to say things I'm saying and doing are scummy so that he can go "look, I told you so" no matter which way I flip.

aha... so...
- you don't like my attitude.
- I use meta.
- I think you're a poor player due to all the games we've been together (and now I have more example in a game Im reading where you flamed at people and then asked for replacement)
- I believe your claim.

How does any of this makes me scum? And you're overlooking everything else that has happened in the game... Did I buss Cater?
The only option that WOULD be plausible is that I could be an SK and you could've blocked me jailkeeping me. Therefore, only 1 nightkill. But you didn't even think of that...

At minimum his condescending and combative "holier than thou" attitude is NOT HELPFUL.

So... I'm not helpful in your opinion... wanna lynch me for that?
Am I less helpful than Albert or Archon or Brian?

Qwints seemed a bit over defensive at first and so I kept prodding. The more I prodded the more comfortable I felt about my vote. I especially didn't like the abandonment of the KK wagon, and his stances on LK at all, and I'm inclined to believe LK's claims.

We've been over this yesterday and you stop talking about it. You even recognized that LK was scummy. You completely backtracked and now you're back at qwints, again...

Not sure a bmq lynch is as likely to be productive right now.

Why?

also the fact that alex is STILL using meta, this late in the game, really is scummy. Meta can be useful for helping make lynch decisions during D1 but by D2 there should be enough information in THIS game to draw a real case on.

I totally disagree. Meta can be used at any time to see how a player has reacted in the past and if he would do it again... It can be ESPECIALLY useful late in the game.

If you can't support your positions on various people based on what's in THIS game by now as long as the thread is (28 pages now) without continually resorting to meta, then it's because your opinions are only convenient to you and not because you have convictions about them.

So... All my arguments have been meta???
------------------------

Oh yes, the two votes prior to my own were just so much pressure. And the fact I can't defend a guy feeling that he's town doesn't allow me to just not vote him. It's the best move to progress the game, and with one scum down, I don't quite understand why you wish to hinder votes on Brian.

If Brian is scum, you're looking like scum with him.

mmmm... maybe it's a good idea to lynch brian after all... and remember this phrase... LK+Brian+Cater?
Remember... Doc is an easy fake claim and it can help out the REAL doc... plus, LK suggesting that he was a naive doc made me suspicious.

"[L-k says] that [he] vote

scum although [he] doesn't think they're scum."

That could be a slip that you know Brian is scum, but you're pushing for an Albert lynch?

Twice you've said Brian is scum in different scenarios to accuse first qwints and then me when you previously looked totally uncertain about his allignment...

As for your case on Albert: He better fits my description of scum, and I agree with your case as well.

Since he did just vote Brian, that makes me feel a lot less uneasy about my vote.

So, my question is: Is he scummier than Brian?

I don't follow your wording...
You dont feel uneasy with your vote on Brian because Albert voted him?
OR
You DO feel uneasy because Albert voted Brian?

mmmm look at Cater's post 344... When the LK waggon was going over the qwints waggon cater jumps of and tries to steerr the lynch again.

I don't feel comfortable voting for LK, because I can't convince myself that his play has been scummy. It's so frantic and confusing that I don't know what to think of him.

Qwints on the other hand, fits a scum role very well from what I've seen of him. He seemed very adamant about KK, which to me seemed like he was wearing blinders and coming to conclusions and then finding support. But he's seemed to forget about KK when he came under some questioning and pressure. I think he misread the general opinion on KK and when pressure came, he switched to LK, who is an easier case to make.

---------------------------------

If you're asking what I think about having Brian and I claim - all I am willing to say is that I have a limited ability.

alex thinks this is reasonable, I think it's a little silly. qwints, I don't get why you bothered soft claiming when you did if you are afraid to go all out now.

QFT.

Are you serious? He explained why he voted qwints. Perhaps not to your satisfaction, but he replied directly to you when he said that he found qwints scummy in a skim of the thread.

You're right. It DOESNT satisfy me. No reasoning but vote qwints?? what did he expect? a confession?

I saw nothing those showed me that Albert wasn't eventually going to give the thread a solid read.

has he?

I think you are moving too fast.

I think some people are moving too slow, or too scummy.

Face it, out of the four people I think most of us can reasonably agree to lynch (the KK vote minus Light-kun),

Archon's replacement hasn't got a chance to get started

, and qwints is looking more town helpful than he did in the past.

This is highly relevant... we NEED a replacement. and We NEED skruffs to post here too. What's with the replacements activity anyway? (not you hohum)

Rest assured that if hohum didn't vote when he did yesterday, I'd want him gone. hohum has zero excuse, in my opinion, to be pushing alex the way he has this entire game. He doesn't like alex personally, and it definitely shows.

dude... You have one metaread on Albert and that makes you think he is town? well... I have 3 meta reads on hohum (1 unkown, 2 town) and I know that his playstyle is the same... Attacking whoever attacks him and getting easyly frustrated. Anyway, that doesn't make him town but his playstyle in this game plus the claim make me trust him despite all he can say against me.

Unlike hohum, Albert has been willing to at least speak about Brian.

Is he? He said 3 Empking-like phrases and voted Brian... And never even mentioned the past events of this game. That's not talking about Brian... And what happened with all the "brian makes sense" stuff?
-------------------

I agree wholeheartedly with KK's 685. (previous post)

SIDE NOTE: thanks for Advertising KK... I can't adv now because I'm advertising a mini mash game of my making... 3 spots left...(hint hint)

[alexhans]

Hello Albert.... anything else? Are you done with school yet?

I'm fine with a Brian lynch... We will probably need a Skruffs replacement too because he has been missing for a while now.

I'll comment later on the last posts...

[alexhans]

At Alex: Deconstructionism doesn't work on my posts. YOU WILL ALWAYS MISS THEIR POINT IF YOU BREAK THEM DOWN. (Also, I didn't say Brian is town or scum. I quoted someone else, hence the quotation marks. I also said "If Brian is scum" because Qwints was going out of his way for Brian a bit.

mmm.... look... I try to read both the specific statements and the overall meaning of a post. I don't intend on missing anything.

Alex+Red put Albert as my Second suspect. These are the best cases, hands down.

I understand that you can agree with us but you always have to try and specify the motives for your actions. If you voted Albert tomorrow you should say exactly why... not just because someone has a good case against him. that will make you have to defend your actions (if town, you shouldn't have much problem because you should have a pro-town motive).
--------------------------------------

Look, I don't want to come across as an Albert defender here. I want him to post more too, I want a lot of people to post more, frankly.

I don't think you're Albert's defender. Don't worry. It's just that I WANT him to post because he looks like a smart player. He should contribute (whenever he can, Albert don't flame please) with his thoughts because he should be able to give us a different view of the game so far. He wasn't involved in the first day.

Far be it from me to speak for him, but perhaps he was gauging the town's reaction?

stretch... Let him speak. I appreciate that you read the game but that is a question that HE should answer first and then you give your opinion.

What do you mean by "too scummy"?

Active Lurking strikes me as scummy. Always.
------------------------
wow... qwints... I didn't remember that. Good post. And the other one too.

Brian IS the right lynch for today.

unvote

But, I don't want the day to end without the replacements.

I'm pondering qwints' comments on alex. he may have a point.

more qwints votes please. (/quote]
I beg your pardon hohum... but I really don't follow.

He has a point regarding my town-ness? or you think I'm scum therefore you want more people voting him, or what?

Well, all we need is Brian's claim and we can progress to night...assuming someone else is willing to vote.

True. DONT hammer without a claim.

I think KK is willing to lynch him, hopefully we can convince alex that this is the best solution as well.

I'm convinced. But DONT lynch him yet.

Maybe if we're lucky the last mafia will be Brian and Archon or something like that.

lol... I had the same wish. But we can not gamble with that. We SHOULD get replacements.

I mostly trust RC's judgement so I'm going to hammer. If I'm wrong you can lynch me tomorrow.

Dude... you're suggesting your own lynch based on you believing RC's judgement? isn't that a bit dangerous? If Brian happened not to be scum... what would you do?

hope you'll be ready to spoon-feed my opinion to me tomorrow because I'll need some guidance.

I know you won't want to hear this kind of stuff from me but try not to let anyone totally guide you. They could always be scum or wrong.

The "Your vote doesn't count twice" Votecount!

Good one.

Additionally, I think you've really carried on this feud with alex too long, and you should try to make peace, or at least, if you have to carry a grudge, grin and

bear

it for the rest of this game and just ignore him in any future games.

So we have ourselves a smart coyote XD

Yeah, I'm Hoping that won't be the case. He still has about 13 hours to post, or i guess we will try to replace him as well. No one seems to want to replace into a near 30 page game. I'm still looking though.

MOD: try to tell your friends about the game... people with whom you have played before

Should I hammer now, or wait to see if Albert B. Rampage or Skruffs need to be replaced before night?

Wait for Albert to be less busy at least.
--------------------------------------

I can let a grudge go. I understand what he's doing. He's playing poke the bear.

First of all. The bear shouldn't be smoking. It's bad for his health.

Seriously, I'm truly, deeply sorry about what has happened between hohum and me that I seem to spoil the game for me.

Yes, hohum, I've received a pm by little (AKA spy) in another forum where he sent me the conversation between you too. I don't want anyone to feel that I'm spoiling the fun of a game (wich after all is the reason for playing, although I sometimes forget that). I want to make friends so I can play with them over and over again.

I will have to admit that I was GREATLY prejudiced against you after our 2 past games where we didn't agree on stuff. That happened to me with Panzer too but I got over that and we are now playing a game without problem.

I also admit that I'm a somewhat (this is hard) arrogant and feel that I'm above certain people. Wich I shouldn't do because when somebody else does it to me I don't like it. I'll try to change that and my attitude towards people.

I hope we can leave this past behind us so that we can even play on IRC sometime.

That said. Again, I'm sorry.

Let's find scum.

[alexhans]

I'm good man. Fully caught up. Hammer at will.

But don't you want to say anything else?

comment on the game? Something?

remember... This will be a LOOOONG night. We need 2 replacements.

[alexhans]

If Brian and someone else abandons, I might quit too. That's what? 2 people out and 1 missing. *Sighs*

NEVER THREATEN TO ABANDON A GAME!!! DONT BECOME LIKE THEM!

You're right, I'm just frustrated. I don't understand why people don't want to replace. I guess I should be more proactive and replace as an exchange thing, but 3 games is kind of my personal limit.

Yeah... I was playing 3 games too (one being a replacement) and I couldn't strain myself either.

qwints is definetly townier (meaning pro-town, not that he is a townie) than Brian.

Wow.....you ever try to read 29 pages of play, while at work, in the middle of the night? Its a bit overwhelming, and I don't think I'll try THAT again!!!

Welcome sir! THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR GREAT EFFORT!

That being said, I am comfortable with a

Vote: Brian

at this time, seeing as we are nearing deadline.

Do you know this is L-1??? is there a deadline really?

Side note: Thanks Johnny! You sure made me feel like I've done my part.

Just calling them as I see them. Defensive much?

huh? How so?

@skruffs: dude... we NEED that post with your thoughts about the game!

No one hammer Brian yet, lets talk a bit although I don't feel it's necessary to wait for a replacement, he has been off-site since the 27th... maybe he will come back.

@JR: What do you think about Archon and PiePop so far?

[alexhans]

LOL GO TOWN!!!

Great Shot Qwints! Glad you took it. LK HAD to go next anyway but Albert might've proven a hard person to read (Yes, that's why I kept pushing him over and over again)

Post 686 Must've scared the shit out of scum!
I'm happy I went after both scum on day 1 and later agreed with the scum lynch on day 2 and was willing to vote the third scum on day 3... A fact that you might have missed is that LK waited a long time before posting in day 2... He finally said he was roleblocked when RC and me mentioned the possibility.
------------------

Awesome! Especially alex and qwints, you guys rocked!

Thanks RC!!! But we couldn't have done it without you... You helped me pull through the Cateraction waggon.

Thanks to the Mod for a good game. Despite replacement problems, the town managed to stick this one out.

Yeah, and we did a helluva job too!

No wonder the poor mafia was all shaken up, both Light-kun and cater were pushed pretty hard on D1. Brian, sorry to hear about you losing your job! Tough luck all around for sure.

I think that they should've resigned LK when they could... Even though he was a strong PR... not doing so lost them the game because his whishy washiness on D1 had been extremely opportunistic.

A shame Johnny Rotten did all that reading basically just to vote once and then game over, lol, but thanks very much for replacing anyways.

Thanks Johnny! You helpd with your little bit! Thanks for replacing!

I'd like to think I would've had it down between Albert and Light-kun on D3

LK would definetly be in the spotlight tomorrow.

but who knows. Now I know why Light-kun was so weary of voting Brian yesterday

Yes, and remember my Post 686, the scumflip guessing and linking was definetly weird and linked them toguether.

. Brian, I had to think you were just stuck between a rock and a hard place on the end of D1, right? Deciding whether or not to bus or take the risk with the hopes that someone like hohum would switch back to KK or the deadline would be extended? That was definitely a tough call.

LOL. Imagine the faces of scum when they realized that a Super Fast Waggon had formed only to go after the other scum.
------------------

Hohum-protect alexhans.

Although this wasn't a bad move because I could've been SK I still think that protecting Archaist would've been great...

LesterGroans- Checks qwints house for guns

Now I understand his vote... :I Anyway, It didn't help much that you gave NO reason for it...

Archaist-Tracks BrianMcQueso

Wow! Imagine when Archaist received that Brian had gone to LK... And LK said he was Roleblocked... We would've necessarily had to lynch Brian... XD oh. No, Archaist was blocked by LK... meh.

LightKun-Blocks Archaist
LightKun-Kills Archaist

Obv the best choice by scum to make the kill.

BrianMcQueso-Watches LightKun.

Huh? Setting up a bus? I want to read that Quicktopic NOW!

qwints- shoots Light-kun

Bullseye!

Light-kun- Blocks Hohum

Can a JK be blocked? Can JK block RB?
[/color]

Game MVP goes to RedCoyote!

Could'nt agree more.
-------------------

If everyone could answer these questions it would be very helpful to me in the future..
1)Did i prod too often/ often enough?
2)Was the flavor overkill?
3)What do you think of the setup?
4)Did i post votecounts often enough?
5)Did you ever use the votecount in the first post?
6)What could i have done differently to make the game better?

I would like to say thanks to Archaist, RedCoyote, Cateraction, Light-kun, BrianMcQueso, Alexhans, and Kublai Khan for sticking it out and playing it all the way through.

I would also like to say thanks to all the replacements (qwints, Albert B. Rampage, Skruffs, Hohum, and Johnny Rotten)

Thanks guys! I enjoyed it!

1) I really don't remember. You should know
2) The flavour was fine.
3) It was great. Seemed balanced and original.
4) NO! I Need MOAR votecounts... You posted some but many times I felt I needed more.
5) huh? Was there one? No, I didn't realize.
6) Nothing, really.

You know what was my only issue (wich didn't make to much difference anyway) but besides that you were a great mod. I'm glad I joined this game (just for you ).

hohum

(Replacing ppp973): Well, me and hohum, hohum and me... Anyway, he did the same thing as qwints... replaced, tunneled and then attacked who attacked him. But he did one GREAT thing. He claimed and that was incredibly important to realize that LK was probably lying because hohum seemed to be town.

Skruffs

(Replacing LesterGroans): well... We really didn't get much from you did we? Lester was, thank god, voted Cater.

RedCoyote

*: Praise, praise, praise. You were the town's unofficial cop. You did what you had to do and posted great points.

qwints

(Replacing Cream147)*: After RC, you were the most relevant player. Such a pity you completely tunnel visioned on Kublai on the first part of D2. Anyway, you looked pretty town the whole time. But NEVER AGAIN Soft claim Bad idea.

Johnny Rotten

(Replacing Archon, who replaced PieIsPopcorn)*:Pie, I don't recall much, just a lame discussion about the RVS (See that the ones that didn't want things to get agressive were not scum?) with KK. Then Archon, null and... townie claim? Then JOhnny who didn't have much time but added his bit.

Albert B. Rampage

(Replacing ChiefSkye4): Replacement lurker... I tried and I tried but couldn't get him to post.

Kublai Khan

: Good game KK! You managed to pull through a bad case against you from several people at different times and lynched scum twice!

Archaist

-Tracker- Shot night 1: He acted scummy on day 1 but his claim was believable and he made a good night choice... This is for you Archaist!

alexhans

: Im town, Town won! Go Town!

cateraction

-Mafia Godfather- Lynched Day 1: LOL. IGMEOY XD Next time, don't mildly avoid the RVS like that... And vote KK with conviction man!

BrianMcQueso

-Mafia Watcher- Lynched Day 2: You had it rough mate. Good game. You looked pro-town on D1.

Light-kun

: Duuuude. Less vote hopping... It seemed that Anything worked for you. Oh! by killing hohum you confirmed him... bad idea... We were probably gonna lynch you next...
-----------------
And for those who didn't read the link I gave you:

Oh yes, the two votes prior to my own were just so much pressure. And the fact I can't defend a guy feeling that he's town doesn't allow me to just not vote him. It's the best move to progress the game, and with one scum down, I don't quite understand why you wish to hinder votes on Brian.

If Brian is scum, you're looking like scum with him.

mmmm... maybe it's a good idea to lynch brian after all... and remember this phrase...

LK+Brian+Cater

?
Remember... Doc is an easy fake claim and it can help out the REAL doc... plus, LK suggesting that he was a naive doc made me suspicious.

"[L-k says] that [he] vote

scum although [he] doesn't think they're scum."

That could be a slip that you know Brian is scum, but you're pushing for an Albert lynch?

Twice you've said Brian is scum in different scenarios to accuse first qwints and then me when you previously looked totally uncertain about his allignment...

mmmm look at Cater's post 344... When the LK waggon was going over the qwints waggon cater jumps of and tries to steerr the lynch again.

I don't feel comfortable voting for LK, because I can't convince myself that his play has been scummy. It's so frantic and confusing that I don't know what to think of him.

Qwints on the other hand, fits a scum role very well from what I've seen of him. He seemed very adamant about KK, which to me seemed like he was wearing blinders and coming to conclusions and then finding support. But he's seemed to forget about KK when he came under some questioning and pressure. I think he misread the general opinion on KK and when pressure came, he switched to LK, who is an easier case to make.

GREAT GAME EVERYONE!

We are called lynchville for a reason! We Own at lynching!

[alexhans]

Huh.. I find it pretty funny that LK thought I might be SK. The panic after Day 1 was great. I feel bad for the scum team.

Hey, where's our scummie nom, afatchic?!

seconded...

I have to look for the txt where I commented on this game...